>>98839040
hah! you got a 13 year olds willie for all eternity.

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>>98839065
He'll just pay for thaumaturgical correction when he feels like it.

>>98839080
Tzimeze will give his genitalia teeth just to fuck with him cause hes a cammie ventrue.

>>98839086
Give his glanis buckteeth and a pair of hornrim glasses.

>>98839086
That's why he'll go to the friendly neighbourhood chantry instead.

>>98839105
And an Islamic chorister will try a piece of enchanted rebar through his skull. The power of muhammad compels you.

https://strawpoll.com/wAg3Qx2eOy8

Might as well get some more votes as it was posted late in the last thread.

>>98839040
I have a theory why vampires are tolerated by society.

Its because they feed on the worlds crappiest people.

>>98839165
Please anon don't start with this you know where it's gonna go

>>98839168
reality television?

>>98839065
Why would that be a problem? I'm pretty sure 13 y/o me fucked better than 30 y/o me does.

>>98839150
poll looks pretty much exactly as i expected it

i guess we don't have enough cofd players to do the same for the other world of darkness right?

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so whats the stance of the Cam and the SI in these lads right here? Seems kinda odd only the furries deal with em, with how big of a deal their supernatural fuckery is.

>>98839283
What the fuck.

>>98839426
You know that clandestine secret society of immortals that has existed for thousands of years and who people spend entire lifetimes hoping to discover the barest hint of its existence? And you know that other super elite conspiracy of supernatural forces that maybe a hundred people know about? Its natural to assume they know about each other and have established a comprehensive set of polcies that applies universally to both organizations despite being composed of a loose array of iconoclast individual interests, right?

>>98839426
you mention SI so wod 5 and pentex in w5 doesn't really exist as we know it it's not a existing megacorp anymore but a secret cult that controls capitalism now. it also does not worship the wyrm directly anymore but fly as a totem which is more about greed and we know pretty much nothing else of this w5 pentex because the garou in w5 are super ignorant about the world

>>98839454
the fuck?

There was a whole-ass different version of Changeling: the Lost 2e that got scrapped when Olivia Hill parted ways with Onyx Path it was even play tested and i seen people sing it's praises online as being alledegly better than the ctl 2e we got

do we have the playtest material somewhere?

>>98839454
huh, really? I had no idea. Got any book excerpt about it?

>>98839454
that's not actually true pentex group in w5 is a holding company what does not exist anymore are first teams, occult experiments and all that because on of the w5 writers said he thinks that soldiers with pentex uniform is silly so now they are coperate evil that knows about the spirit world with little of the charm of og pentex
>>98839518
nta but

>Pentex Group is a holding company whose upper echelons are aware of the animistic nature of the world and have aligned themselves with powerful spirits themselves in service to the Wyrm. Through an ever-adapting collection of corporate fronts, the Pentex Group is forever profit-seeking, increasing its wealth through exploitation and then using that wealth to fund further exploitation.

>Acting largely through subsidiaries, Pentex Group remains hidden through financial dishonesty and sheltered by technicalities of law. It’s a true multinational, but one that opts not to draw attention to itself and prefers to conceal its own identity wherever possible. Pentex Group has controlling interests in everything from cosmetics to weapons manufacturing to global energy operations, but each serves the Wyrm’s purposes

>Pentex Group’s methods are corporate and subtle, thriving in the resignation that modern societies have been bullied into accepting as the way of the world. It lobbies for relaxed environmental regulation, looses
mining runoff into rivers and nature preserves, crushes indigenous peoples and local economies in the name of greater profits,

they still use mercs sometimes but they don't have their own troops and the book explcity seperates between pentex and werewolf hunting organisations implying that they aren't doing that anymore

however they still have banes but like anon said they are reduced to working for a single totem
>Spiritually attuned agents of Pentex also often put Banes to use,"..." In this case, Banes may be subservient to Pentex’s Patron Spirit, Fly

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>it's a level eight Ritual
>you have to find a fifth gen to cast it
>and murder a Kindred for raw materials
>maybe you could use a shovelhead if your Humanity is low enough
>all that for a worse klaive

>>98839480
I played that.
It was the most pretentious circle jerk of a game I'd ever seen, fucking insufferable, 10x worse than what it was replacing.

>>98839555
there is also a 8th dot ritual that turns vamps into weapons. might actually be a alternative version of this. that allows you to use their disciplines and skills

>>98839555
is that all it does? you can do the same with the flamming sword 3 dot ritual

>>98839578
early wod had some really underwhelming 6+ powers

>>98839555
early elder powers are a meme and it's kinda funny how many of them are turned into 3-4 dot rituals later in vtm
like >>98839578
or birth of the homunculus also used to be a protean 8 power and no the homunculus was not in any way better than the one you get with the thaum ritual

I'm continuing to look at 1st Edition books. From that shitty Bone of the Kindred ritual, you might be able to tell I'm looking at the 1e Players Guide. It rounds out the clans, except the Lasombra and Tzimisces, they end up not getting statted until 2e apparently. They do randomly introduce a bloodline though, these "Salubri" guys? I don't think "healing Discipline" and "notorious serial diablerists" really go together as bloodline traits though. I have no idea why the Tremere were so afraid of these guys if there's only seven of them, though. Maybe they're like a teaser for the Sabbat? Sure sound crazy enough for them.

>>98839647
you been in the st book already? that also has some interesting stuff

>>98839654
Not yet. But I do want to do a very pretentious thing where I print out all the Thaumaturgy stuff I can collate and then follow one of those hipster-ass bookbinding YouTube tutorials to make a booklet

>>98839666
>666
>talks about making a pretentious magic tome

>>98839666
sounds fun actually. you sorting by edition or by dot power?

>>98839677
Does Thaumaturgy work differently between editions? I might have to sort by edition if the rules aren't consistent.

>>98839685
yes the way difficulty for spells is handeled changes between 2e and revised first they try to explain it as a metaplot thing and even try to potentially connect it to mage rev where magic is also becoming harder despite that only applying to true magic, but that is only mentioned like twice as a rumor and then in the dark age vampire books they just copied the way revised does it

>>98839379
Might do it anyway, though the results are just as predictable.
Hunter the Vigil at the top, Changeling the Lost as a second or third, Promethean shockingly high just because people love the concept even if no one's ever played it, Mage the Awakening near the bottom, Beast at dead last.

>>98838241
Its also a rote, which has difficulty 4. (Its in hermetic tradition book.)
>>98838271
Yes, an enchanted shotty is probably better, but consider that you can cast fireball with shotgun as an instrument too. Like, shooting a barrel and it exploding is even coincidental.

>>98839454
>because the garou in w5 are super ignorant about the world
Incorrect.
It's less that the Garou in W5 are super ignorant, and more that groups are expected to come up with their own lore for their own tables.
The lead writer believed that any game that establishes a lot of concrete lore is actually hobbling the people who play the game, rather than providing them with inspiration. He believed that a game is at its best when it leaves everything up to the group rather than laying down lots of groundwork.
He's also known for having a chip on his shoulder regarding people who fixate on the lore of games he's worked on and spent most of their time arguing over his games instead of actually playing them. Places like /wodg/ were living in his head rent while he was writing W5.

>>98839900
How do you know this? Quotes?

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>>98839919

>>98839964
should have put that in the book instead of "the garou don't know about the 90s" then

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>>98839971
I swear writer wrote that without thinking. From slandering oral traditions to literally making Garou incapable of keeping records (written or technologically recorded) even from 90s to making most Garou teenagers and young adults.

>>98839994
>>98839964
>>98839971
It's partially a bit funny that he writes this while also painting Garou society (what little is left of it) as traditionalist chud's who probably think the Imperium was based

>>98839994
in general the book is just really schizo and if >>98839964 is what they been going for then they tried to do that in the most 4th grader way in the world like it's not just the 90s but also they know about the war of rage, but not why fera hate them and one of the dates they mention when talking about that nobody knows about the impergium are the dark ages

their human connections would know about a near genocide of humanity if it was in the dark ages!

>>98840029
>Imperium
*Impregnum

>>98840051
The Impregnum was the time they tried to knot humanity into submission, very different from the Impergium where they were killing them left and right.

>>98840051
Yes my bad, the Im"preg"num, should refrain from phoneposting

>>98839964
>the only lore that matters is lore that players can touch
I won't be touching your game if I feel the setting is boring. What kind of gigachad ST is going to produce anything on the scale of oldwoof lore, schizophrenia and all? Rather than be scared of writing lore to give STs free reign (not players, the ST) maybe you should trust STs to simply discard elements they do not like, because that is far easier than coming up with an actually interesting setting.

Retarded takes like these are what lead to Urethra being so fucking boring, same as W5 "Garou."

>>98839900
>He's also known for having a chip on his shoulder regarding people who fixate on the lore of games he's worked on and spent most of their time arguing over his games instead of actually playing them. Places like /wodg/ were living in his head rent while he was writing W5.
Fool, doesn't he know from watching Fromsoft shit take off that leaving things vague just makes people argue /more/?

>>98840074
Also forgot to add: "Stale Data, half the people buying the game weren't actually playing it."
So what.. they get rid of everything the other half actually wants? What sort of business are these guys running? What? Legitimately what?? I thought Paradox is a soulless corporate entity and such thoughts would have you flogged, beaten, drawn and quartered.

>>98840081
You could say they have a... paradoxical mindset.

>>98840078
5E WoD and Fromsoft vague post lore are different beasts entirely entirely I think, From's settings are abstract but the history in them is actually quite concrete, unlike what happens with W5

>>98840081
Justin Achilli has always been driven by animosity towards the people who interact with his games in ways that he disapproves of. In this case, his latest pet peeve was lore nerds who discuss games on the internet instead of playing them, so he intentionally constructed W5 in such a way that discussion about its lore was next to impossible, because it had no lore to discuss.

I get the feeling that Paradox wanted to make money with W5, but didn't realise that they had given the game to a writer and editor who were driven by bitterness and disgust towards the previous versions of game and the people who liked them.

After missing a session last week, Werewolf Forsaken continued last night and it went excellently. I had been planning to have the Arudasharu (wolf host that feasts on fear) begin to sow some seeds across the Hisil, with fear spirits becoming more prominent and hinting to the Hosts nature. The PCs beat me to the punch however. Last session, I set up that a construction project near the pack's loci was shaping up, and that their totem was concerned about it.

The pack decided they didn't want to draw attention to themselves by murdering all the construction workers, and our Ithaeur decided to use one of their merits to change the resonance of the site. With the rest of the pack leaving spooky messages and animal bones around the site, the plan was to foster a fear resonance in the area and organically shut the site down that way. Needless to say, I was all too happy with this turn of events.

Stray, our Irraka, found that the Hosts were visiting the site in the Hisil and feasting on the spirits there. Other workers were being followed home by fear spirits that delighted in conjuring up scary memories from their past. Given that it's 1980 in the east of england, their biggest fear was the Blitz. Dodge, our Ithaeur, fought in the war, and noticed in the Hisil that the vague silhouette of a luftwaffe bomber was slowly circling the region.

Realising that they may have fucked up, the group called a sacred hunt on the Shathra. They wanted to go back to the site and catch the Hosts, killing them all in one fell swoop. If only it were that easy.

Unbeknownst to the group, the site is a piece of Infrastructure for the God Machine. It needs to drain large quantities of Essence to aid in the building of a new Angel. As the PCs arrived at the site in the evening, they noticed several workers walking around large concrete bases in concentric circles. The air bubbled and cracked in the centre of the concrete.

>>98840109
Fresh piping had been laid on the site, dipping into the marshlands nearby. Peering into the Hisil, the group realised that the land was being sucked dry of all vitality, and that these pipes were responsible. An Integrator demon (Margaret Thatcher's former bodyguard who failed to save her from the PCs of a previous campaign) was watching the proceedings, hoping to insert himself back into the God Machine's good graces. He didn't see the PCs, or the Hosts that were hiding nearby. Not until they both revealed themselves in an orgy of uratha violence.

Baz, our Rahu, shifted into Gauru form immediately and began tearing the Hosts apart while the other PCs split off, dragging the construction workers out of their strange haze. The Arudasharu took on its war-form, a cerberus-like monstrosity that mocked the Uratha with its very existence, and it and Baz began to tear chunks out of oneanother.

The Demon disappeared, leading the players to suspect it was a mage. While the fight continued, a sudden split of thunder cast the shadow of dials, gears and wires across the landscape as the players felt the Gauntlet buckle. The cultists ritual ultimately succeeded, draining half a square kilometre of the Hisil of all Essence, and weakening the gauntlet in the process. In this moment of weakness, a fear spirit slipped through. Foreign Threat Close to Home, a Spirit of the Blitz. A vague impression of a bomber plane in the clouds that shrieked like a Stukka and shone bright spotlights onto the ground to search for targets.

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>>98840112

Baz and Dolly tore the Host to shreds to the north, the players groaning as I described pup-sized wolves clambering from its corpse and scattering in every direction. To the south, Stray and Dodge took a spirit bomb to the face from the Bomber. It blew up the concrete base, destroying the (now redundant) infrastructure there. Dodge shifted into Gauru and began tearing the concrete to shreds. Afterwards, the group found a mail bag down there. Royal Mail, filled with mud.

We ended the session there, Dodge's player drew the Arudasharu. Pic related.

Dolly's player, our Cahalith, is the only player with any Werewolf experience. The other three players are completely new to any sort of world of darkness game at all, so they're ready to accept anything and try anything. While the players collectively formed their ghetto fear campaign she was messaging me "This is a terrible idea, you're going to make us regret this so much." All in all, I'd planned something of that form to happen anyway, but now the PCs and players have some involvement in shaping the story, and I think that's excellent. 10/10 session, very happy so far.

>>98840105
>Justin Achilli has always been driven by animosity towards the people who interact with his games in ways that he disapproves of. In this case, his latest pet peeve was lore nerds who discuss games on the internet instead of playing them, so he intentionally constructed W5 in such a way that discussion about its lore was next to impossible, because it had no lore to discuss.

I can see it but it's weird how he reacted to Forsaken given that context, even if odds are he just developed those feelings after his book on Nwod.

Maybe I'm missing something because the kind of people invested in sharing their games here are few and far between , Shark being the only one I can remember off the top of my head.

Not sure how to phrase the sentiment with X5 take on the lore besides "I can see the plot hooks scattered throughout the book but there's not enough to give a shit even as a ST".

How does a Nephandus act when they find someone who's about to Awaken? I'm assuming Mages can tell or sense when such a thing is about to happen, or at the very least a ST can say it is so.
Does the Nephandus try to make the guy Awaken and then try to get them to enter a Caul, or does the Nephandus just kill the person? Or are the Nephandi too fractured to give out a concrete answer?

>>98840134
>the kind of people invested in sharing their games here are few and far between
Because they get little traction, and draw in shitposters.
>>98840109
>>98840112
>>98840118
Having run Wt:F, this is a fantastic roll you have got together.

>>98840222
They're all individuals but odds are good they'd try to take the new kid under their wing and act like a corrupting influence.

>>98840227
>Because they get little traction, and draw in shitposters.
Remember that typing out a session recap regularly is far more work than an idle comment and has far more prerequisites, not the least of which is currently having a game and wanting to share it.

>>98840227
>Because they get little traction, and draw in shitposters.
That's true but I'm talking about the "professionalization" of sharing your stuff.

>>98840241
>the "professionalization" of sharing your stuff.
Meaning?

>>98840260
Meaning that it is often more appealing to make a whole podcast than a post here but that's not really true specifically when dealing with the games we do.

>>98840134
I used to post some stories but I have been No Games since my group imploded.

It isnt confirmed but I did pitch a freak legion game to my friends. One friend is interested but my other friend and his wife wanted to gloss over the books before committing.

>>98840299
My condolences brother.

>>98840299
My condolences

I've been posting some story stuff here every now and then. It's been fun.

So uhhh how do you break a blood bond as a Mage ? Asking for a (possibly retarded) friend.

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>>98840390

>>98840392
Shit I have 4 in Entropy, Prime and Mind but no one in the group has any Life.
Thanks for the answer.

>>98840390
having a friend do it. it's pretty hard to do yourself because you are a addict and neither you nor your avatar see anything wrong with that and pretty easy to do for someone else

>Breaking the bond is a Herculean feat; only the most strong-willed mages could ever hope to escape the chains of servitude. There is a magical solution (Prime 1, Entropy 3, Mind 3, Life 4), but it requires years of
work, tremendous study into the secrets of vampire occultism and anatomy, and permanent expenditures of Willpower. How much effort is ultimately up to the Storyteller in question. And then the mage has to deal with his Avatar, who wants the mage to stay so it can get its fix.

m20 makes it even harder for some reason and makes it flat out impossible to break your own bond

>Mages, willful creatures themselves, can try to resist the blood bond’s effects. If the mage tries to beat the bond, that mage’s player needs to roll her Willpower against difficulty 8 and accumulate one success for each time the mage has fed from that vampire (three successes minimum). If she makes that roll, the player must spend one Willpower point each turn in order to resist the bond.

>Powerful magick can break the bond. Through a combination of Life 4, Mind 3, Entropy 3, and Prime 1 – plus at least three dots in Lore (Vampires) – a mage can break the bond’s hold on another person (difficulty 8, successes as above). A mage cannot, however, use that magick to break her own bond.

>>98840390
>>98840392
It's so weird. Why isn't it just mind 3 or something, why wouldn't it be? You're just affecting a mental condition. What does this shit have to do with entropy..?

>>98840406
because mage is nonsense if i had to guess then vitae is entropic quint i guess and you have vitae in your body?

that being said it's not just mental conditioning because the blood bond works on people who are 100% immune against mind control and manipulation like fallen... somehow... i guess wod in general is nonsense

>>98840416
Meanwhile Mages can have the "Unbondable" merit which isn't even that expensive.

>>98840420
Just like the immortal and unaging merits, it's just so fucking weird. Why? What does this even represent? You presumably buy these in chargen, so they can't really have been magic you cast. If it was a system to grant yourself these merits, fine - but why? MtAs is such a fun setting with such a dogshit retarded implementation that makes no fucking sense whatsoever. It doesn't even keep consistent with its own rules in the same fucking book.

>>98840420
that is not a mage unique merit vampires, ghouls, revenants and hunters hunted hunters (and with that i assume most everyone) can also all buy it

but if you don't have the merit it is somehow a super special snowflake bond that ignores mental defenses

>>98839964
Reading this just reminds me of my late friend. One thing that always drove him crazy was how every table and LARP we joined was always a copy and paste of Chicago's structure.

Man I miss just hanging out and talking about games with him. I should visit is grave soon.

>>98840431
some people are just unbondable even complete normies can just have that merit. just like with caitiff embraces and people manifesting supernatural flaws and merits upon the embrace nobody knows why "shit happens"

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>>98840222
Basically, they are a prime target for conversion.

>>98840406
Entropy covers some varieties of necromancy, as does Life. The blood bond ultimately comes from the presence of Vitae within the ghoul's body, so the Vitae has to be neutralised and the mystical bond between ghoul and domitor has to be severed. Getting rid of the mental influence is just one aspect of it and if you don't get rid of the magical aspect, the mental aspect of the blood bond will just reassert itself. Mind alone would probably just grant a bonus to the ghoul's attempts to resist the domitor's commands.

But if you hate M20's "you need five different Spheres to wipe your ass" shtick, just cut the ones that you consider irrelevant from that rote.

>>98840434
my condolences anon

that reminds me however that i did ask on here if anyone had some alternative city structures when that topic came up and didn't really get any answers

>>98840406
It is a vampire specific ruling because authors.
The same reason why Satyros spends a page explaining why turning vampires into lawn chairs are shit and stupid, just like the reader (in his mind) and makes up rules specific for it that aren't relevant anywhere else.
(Ignoring the fact that lawn chair was always a meme because most Mages would just cast 30 Agg fireball equivalent than transform them)

>>98840464
not that i disagree but the anti blood bond spell is copy pasted from revised the only thing m20 added been the lore 3 (vampires)

not that this makes it better as a spell but lore creep was a thing before m20. goat fucker did write mage books since 1e after all. m20 just made him the lead so now the bloat is consistent(ly bad)

>>98840475
i wonder when Satyros became vampire's strongest advocate he was in the white wolf magazine article in which a vampire get's turned into a bubble to establish how koooool mages are

>>98839040

>>98838786
>>98838868
To be fair, now that Shark is a 5th gen abomination they could totally tear apart other methuselah (and possibly antideluvians if their plot device doesn’t save them). Their bite does 20+ aggravated damage. Add to that a level two gift I intend to buy next session, Aim for the Jugular, which makes soaking the damage at difficulty 9.

As an added bonus, I also intend to acquire the Path of the Four Humour and level it up to the second dot. The power would double the damage of my bite. So 40+ aggravated damage difficulty 9 to soak.

Seems pretty doable.

>>98840464
>>98840475
Don't bloodbonds literally just go away on their own..? Like it's not THAT big of a deal. It takes a fucking year for a normal mortal. Mages can fucking go back in time and forward and whatever the fuck. I can sort of understand it for undoing vampirism itself but a bloodbond???

There is like fifteen different ways I could see a mage just circumventing this or approaching this differently that is vastly easier even if there was some mystical component to the blood which reasserted the mental control. Time to forward time, Correspondence/Entropy to break the conceptual bond between the two, Mind to just suppress the influence or rewrite the influence. Life or Mind to put the subject to sleep whilst it goes away on it's own. Also I'd count a bloodbond as a very good sympathetic connection directly to the vampire, which is very inconvenient indeed.

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>>98840491
>>98840509
Playing devil's advocate, he probably isn't doing that because of Vampire.
He is one of the types that lets his IRL beliefs influence his writing a lot. As in, he in real life believes in Magic. So a lot of the sphere/lore/rule bloat is because that's what he thinks is required. (That's why he is also a RL Verbena)

>>98840509
the problem is mages are more susceptible to the blood bond than normies because the avatar also become vitae addicted so their roll to resist that shit is at minimum 3 times as hard as it is for a normal ghoul and last for single rounds instead of scenes

>Even without the bond, a ghouled mage suffers a vicious addiction to vampire blood. In game terms, this counts as the Addiction Flaw at its highest level, and she also becomes Deranged (again, as per that Flaw) through her obsession with consuming more vitae

>Mages, willful creatures themselves, can try to resist the blood bond’s effects. If the mage tries to beat the bond, that mage’s player needs to roll her Willpower against difficulty 8 and accumulate one success for each time the mage has fed from that vampire (three successes minimum). If she makes that roll, the player must spend one Willpower point each turn in order to resist the bond

>; if she’s trying to attack him, the resistance lasts only a turn or two. After that, the compulsion returns – often mixed with a sense of regret for having defied the master, and disgust at herself for having gotten into the situation to begin with.

> the character will do almost anything, short of obvious suicide, on behalf of her regent. The regent can ask for, or even demand, service, and the thrall will feel compelled to fulfill that request. If the regent tries to Dominate the thrall (using the vampiric Discipline of that name, as described in the Vampire: The Masquerade rulebook), his difficulty is two levels lower than it would normally be. Good treatment deepens the bond, and abuse lessens it but cannot fully dispel it.

and for some reason they also keep some echo of the bond even if they just fuck off

> Only time, distance, and a significant effort of will can do that; even then, a strong fascination remains.

mage writers are for some reason the vampire's strongest soldiers, because it doesn't do that shit in vampire books

>>98840532
I can't decide between hating Satyros for being a mouth breathing retard or liking him because he is a fucking retard and Paradox can't hold a candle to autism this potent.

>>98840536
Probably contrarian backlash against Mage fans who fellate Mage. As WW/OPP/Paradox writers always hate their fans, they tend to write things that specifically contradict how people usually play or view the game.

>>98840536
This is just sort of like ghouling is described in VtM? You have to stay away from your regent for like a year to shake it off. You follow them slavishly and hate yourself for trying to resist it.

How do mages cast rituals that require more than 10 successes? Because you've got to roll stamina for every hour you spend above your stamina, and it takes five hours to get a single roll. I know you can pause your ritual for 24 hours but it increases the difficulty every time.

>>98840536
>because it doesn't do that shit in vampire books
i was confused by this convo because i remember there being a lot of warning that ghouls are unreliable yandere-like idiots who might do really stupid and inconvenient things because of hte blood bond in the ghoul books so why is it that it is somehow the anti mage thing? shouldn't a vampire be terrified if they had a connection to a mage but if mage books just have other rules for the blood bond that also make it really hard for the mage to do anything to the vampire that checks out i guess

>>98840567
Use another ritual to grant yourself 10+ stamina for a few days and dismiss it after you're done with the ritual. Or just a custom spell that allows you to go without sleeping. Use another spell to buff your wits+high rituals or whatever it is to give yourself dozens of pauses, though I don't even know if the difficulty keeps going up or just stays at difficulty+1.

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>>98840406
>>98840475
>>98840536
Blood Treachery mentions that the rules are super strict and against ghoul mages because for them it was more important to keep the themes and idea of ghouldom so that you can tell a ghoul story in mage about a mage dooming themselves and debasing themselves in front of a undead master

so the rules are bullshit. they know the rules are bullshit (or atleast too strict) because Blood Treachery wants to tell a specific story which is a crossover story. Satyros then copy pasted the rules without that context into his m20 book of secrets and made them mainstream mage rules

>>98840589
This is more about the sphere drain and discipline rules and a caution against powergamers iirc, it directly precedes the disciplines chapter.

>>98840537
nta but i hate when i want to play mage and a topic that he wrote the book about comes up because his rules are just worse

but i agree that he is a fascinating character to talk about on here and m6 is probably going to be a far more banal version of bad

>>98840536
>>98840589
honestly this all reads to me like someone once played a independent ghoul mage somewhere and the st hated it soo much they got a job at white wolf and made his character illegal in canon

>>98840567
Typically with other mages or a Sleeper cult assisting them to provide additional successes. As for the increasing difficulty with every break, that can be counteracted by spending Quintessence as necessary on each Arete roll. Great work rituals aren't really something that a mage should expect to do on the fly, as they're almost definitely going to require Willpower, Quintessence, other spells, other mages and/or Sleeper assistants to make the great work ritual more achievable.

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>>98838868
Would Eyes of the Wyrm take priority over Dominate? Im not the biggest ally to the woofs but I like to think I could take on some pretentious leech.

>>98840496
You should somehow get True Magick like Sam Haight.

>>98840687
vampires have very little that mindshields them and while the curse itself overpoweres most banes it doesn't protect them from fomori powers

that being said w20 has nerfed eyes of the wyrm to not be passive anymore and made it that it only immobilized instead of fully freezing the target

so the 2e version would counter most dominate power before we get to elder powers while the w20 version would "work", but not null the vampires ability to use mental powers that don't require it to speak which includes dominate 2 and 5

>>98840687
Isn’t that just the first dot of dominate/serpentis? Though yours aren’t bound by generational immunity so it could work.

>>98840699
ST won’t allow it because he lacks understanding of Mage. He mains Vampire, and has notions of Werewolf and Wraith. Might allow Changeling since he played in a chronicle with Ansel/Catalina’s player once. The player also has knowledge of Demon, so who knows. Perhaps he could peer pressure ST.

So far I’m at Sam’s level with three splats.

>>98840699
to stay on the topic he could get a blood familair

>Stolen Sorcery: The vampire may cast spells using her Blood Familiar’s magical capabilities no matter the distance between them, though both must dwell in the same realm of existence (such as the mundane plane or the Shadowlands). The vampire uses the magus’ dice pools and is limited by her knowledge. When the vampire casts a spell, the magus is unable to do so; the Blood Familiar’s spirit is occupied.

>>98840390
spirit 3 to step sideways and become ephemra
then wait several days for the vitae to finish processing

>>98840630
When it comes to people who actually write World of Darkness stuff, I can't remember the last time that they actually gave any of the Traditions a significant victory. For all of the mechanical supremacy of Mage, the lore seems dedicated to making them eat shit.

>>98840823
surely... the first c-. no i mean

fuck the only thing i can think of is that darkening sky mage scenario and that was before the tradition been founded and against mostly other traditional mages ... and the holy roman empire

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>>98840687
Damn, this actually activates my neurons.
Though in my defense, I've been under unusual amount of pressure past two weeks, unable to properly unwind...

what would happen to technocrat mages who screw up heavily? like "we needed to nuke a city because of you guys" level of screw up

>>98840880
An immediate promotion and a counteroffer from Pentex.

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>>98840471
Thanks, I appreciate it. Outside of Exalted (for which, I'm the designated ST for our group), I've pretty much always been a player in WoD games. The one time I gave STing for Vampire a shot, I had the city managed by The Directory - a council of Vampires with titles like Director of Resource Management or Director of Security. Director came with absolute authority over their field but the position was a temporary one lasting for no longer than a single year. Any given vampire could bring an issue before the city's population and suggest a solution, become the Director of such-and-such by majority vote.

It was very intentionally designed to be chaotic and unstable for the players' benefit. I also used Alex Rosewater and Alan Gabriel from The Big O as inspiration for the most influential vampire in the city and his right hand man. Was fun times, but it didn't last long before we switched games.

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>>98840880
Probably like what happens in one of the endings of Chaos Factor, full cleansing of all supernaturals. Including the corrupt/responsible Technocrats if they can not give a great excuse

>• Pillar: 3 per dot.
holy shit isn't that really cheap? given that a pillar mage only has to level 4 of these

>>98840880
The Technocracy determines loyalty by six official degrees of separation. The lower the number, the more trusted the agent is. The higher the number, the less trusted and the more shit jobs the agent gets.
Degree 7 is the unofficial Degree Absolute, which basically means an agent's right to exist is revoked by the Technocracy. If they are not physically killed, their identity is destroyed instead and whoever they used to be is replaced with a completely new identity in Room 101.

>>98840777
Well Catalina can already summon creatures from the Abyss. Though those are more like assassins and spies than familiars.

>>98840871
Many yearn for the fembussy

Can a vampire get staked by driving a regular spear (or arrow) so far through his chest that the shaft itself penetrates his heart?

>>98840970
>Can a vampire get staked by driving a regular spear (or arrow) so far through his chest that the shaft itself penetrates his heart?
yes this is mentioned in one of the dark age books as the reason why the german ventrue armies love to give their mortals troops crossbows

their vampires can tank those because of fortitude while other vampires have to risk getting staked

>>98839480
Not that I know of, but I didn't really follow CtL2e's development other than knowing that it was a fustercluck with a couple of rewrites.

As someone who really dislikes the direction 2e went, I'd be interested to see her version as well.

https://strawpoll.com/05ZdzpBlGn6
https://strawpoll.com/05ZdzpBlGn6
https://strawpoll.com/05ZdzpBlGn6

Might as well give CofD a chance to shine.

>>98840109
>>98840112
>>98840118
As always, good to hear your group is still happening. Your spirit designs are always very interesting and evocative. Sorry if I haven't responded to some of the previous sessions, I've been coming here less often as of late.

>>98840227
True. I always find myself bloating the sessionpost by having to explain stuff that's happened earlier in the chronicle.

>>98841064
it's okay to put the ones you never played a the buttom right?

>>98841084
Sure, but ideally still in an order of best to worst, even if that's just the impression that you get from them.

>>98841064
Why do people not like Awakening? Is it just boring as a game, compared to Ascension?

>>98841111
that and it's community is has a even worse reputation

and the second ed was written by one of the fans who used to white room post on rpg net and he made the game more to his liking

>>98840984
Good to know, thanks. That makes staking significantly easier.

>>98841119
So what, anons are just putting it low on spite because magefags piss them off? I always thought it was one of the more popular gamelines in cofd by sales but this makes it look like it isn't, but I think there's just a disconnect.

>>98841129
it has fanbase, but that is pretty much a seperate fanbase from the cofd fanbase

vigil has something similair going on but far less hostile which is ironic given that it's the hunter game

>>98841111
I've been in these threads long enough to remember how insufferable the Awakening players that we used to have were. Ascension fans are mellowed out a lot by the lore that they can discuss, meanwhile Awakening being a blank slate of a setting results in discussion being pure white room autism of the worst kind. Also Ascension fans can actually have fun, since they mostly don't take themselves too seriously.

>>98841064
how do I give splats negative points

>>98841143
I have heard a lot of bullshit from a friend but there is not much to say about the fanbase or the game. There is neat shit but hogging the spotlight outshines it.

Ascension is just too autistic to do interact with the others in a way that annoys them.

>>98841111
If you ask me, the setting isn't particularly exciting and the factions mostly lack sauce, both the Paths and the Orders.
This means that far more attention was dedicated towards the masturbatory power fantasy side of Awakening. Ascension has this too, but the conflict between the Traditions and Technocracy is commonly seen as more compelling than the conflict between the Pentacle and the Throne. When I ask someone to picture Hermetic wizards fighting agents of the New World of Order, they probably have a much easier time than if I ask them to picture Obrimos of the Adamantine Arrow fighting agents of the Hegemonic Ministry.
So a lot of people get the impression that there really is nothing of much substance to Mage the Awakening, other than messing with the other games with more interesting settings. This isn't helped by the primary architect of Awakening's second edition designing it around mages mechanically dominating all of the other splats and being the top dog of CofD, to the point where he rewrote some aspects of other settings to make them subservient to Awakening's perspective of them, such as the whole "ghosts aren't actually spirits of the dead" debacle, in order to make mages using ghosts as fuel for spells a guiltless crime.

So my opinion is that Mage the Awakening is a boring game with no appeal other than its power fantasy, that has warped every other game in the system. Even if you aren't playing a crossover game, whatever CofD game you're playing has still been influenced by Awakening, no matter whether it has been written to pander to Awakening's power fantasy or whether it has been written to try and counteract it.

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>>98840731
I go off of Possessed/Freak Legion depending on the power in question. So iirc those would be Revised and 2nd edition.

>>98840775
Its VtM equivalent would be Eyes of The Serpent except there is a duration and I am also locked in place for that duration. Shame I cant use it to get in closer because all his offensive capabilities are tied to the tentacles and malleate.

>>98840871
Hopefully you can get some time to yourself soon. Here is a fishy in the meantime.

>>98841064
I cant participate in this poll unfortunately. Too uninformed.

I'm curious, but in any of the splats does it ever go over population breakdowns of the clans, at least in a percentage style? Better yet by sect?

Like in the Camarilla, is there ever a rough estimate over what percentage is Ventrue, Brujah, etc. down to the more minor members? Ditto for the Sabbat - how much is Lasombra or Tzimisce, and how much is antitribu of varing clans?

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>>98840938
Is Mexico City supposed to be a Technocracy Hub? With the amount of magical thinking around, anyone who really knew this shithole would know it's a Marauder nest.
>"I refuse to live in a place more surreal than my paintings" - Salvador Dali

>>98841208
I fucking hate the paths and orders, they're so fucking gay. It's like you made all mages hermetics but also took everything fun they invented about hermetics out of them, and then for good measure ripped out their cultural soul to replace it with random fantasy gobbledygook. It completely flies in the face of "the supernatural just below the real" angle of urban fantasy, they don't fucking feel like any idea of witchcraft, not even the neo-platonic ones they're fucking based on. I don't even have an issue with Awakening mucking without other systems or whatever, but the factions are just so fucking lame.

I wish they had legacies as the main faction you are joining, with orders being vague alliances and distant political parties that sometimes manage to temporarily ally one or two legacies together for a common goal.

>>98841259
Does this information really matter? Individual cities are very unlikely to represent global populations.

Is there a way to run waifu deck in VtES?

>>98841064
Maybe it's just me, but I would have added a Chronicles of Darkness as its own entity, to play mortals and whatnot.

>>98841305
That's just Hunter at Tier 1.

>>98841259
I put your question in google and that's what the AI spat out
>No canonical book or "splat" gives an official percentage breakdown of the clans by sect. White Wolf purposefully avoided publishing rigid macro-demographics to give Storytellers maximum flexibility over their own cities.
>However, fans and lore analysts have systematically indexed every single named non-player character (NPC) across all published Vampire: The Masquerade books to reverse-engineer an estimate. The closest approximation to what you are looking for comes from these aggregate canon character breakdowns and general lore principles.

>The Canon NPC Breakdown (Statistical Proxy)

>When analyzing the more than 1,000 unique canon vampires published in the rulebooks, city sourcebooks, and clanbooks, the overall population breakdown by clan emerges proportionally as follows:
• Brujah: ~11%
• Ventrue: ~11%
• Toreador: ~10%
• Tremere: ~9%
• Gangrel: ~8%
• Nosferatu: ~8%
• Malkavian: ~7%
• Lasombra: ~6%
• Tzimisce: ~5%
• Giovanni / Hecata: ~5%
• Assamite / Banu Haqim: ~4%
• Followers of Set / Ministry: ~3%
• Ravnos: ~3% (Pre-Week of Nightmares crash)
• Caitiff / Thin-Bloods: ~3% (Highly variable by city)
1/?

>>98841358

>Estimating by Sect

>While the global metrics look evenly balanced, the internal demographics shift drastically when looking at the Camarilla versus the Sabbat.

>1. The Camarilla Demographics

>In classic lore (prior to V5 shifts), the Camarilla is composed of its core seven founding clans. Based on faction wealth, influence, and the strict rules governing the Tradition of Progeny, the internal breakdown of a standard Camarilla city follows a fairly distinct hierarchy:

>Clan Estimated Sect Share Role Dynamics
Ventrue & Toreador ~35% – 40% combined The highest numbers due to institutional wealth. They control the high society and political offices.
Brujah ~15% – 20% Traditionally numerous as the "muscle" and rank-and-file, though heavily split with the Anarchs.
Tremere ~10% – 15% Strictly regulated by the Pyramid. They limit their numbers to maintain tight internal discipline.
Nosferatu & Malkavian ~10% each Highly stable but self-policing populations. They remain mostly steady through centuries.
Gangrel ~5% – 10% Historically the smallest Camarilla presence due to their nomadic, wilderness-loving nature.

>Minor elements like the Caitiff or individual clan defectors (antitribu) generally account for less than 3% to 5% of a stable Camarilla domain due to aggressive population control by the Prince.

2/3

>>98841366

>2. The Sabbat Demographics

>The Sabbat represents the exact inverse of Camarilla stability. The demographics of the Sabbat are heavily skewed by their primary tactic: Mass Embraces. During times of war, the Sabbat drains entire rooms of mortals, shovels blood into them, and digs them out of the ground to act as disposable shock troops.
• The Ruling Elites (Lasombra & Tzimisce): Despite being the foundational pillars of the Sabbat, they do not make up the majority of the sect's numbers. The Lasombra are deeply Darwinistic and ruthlessly cull their own neonates, while the Tzimisce are territorial, solitary experimenters. Combined, they make up perhaps 30% to 40% of the stable, long-term Sabbat population.
• The Antitribu and Panders (The True Majority): The vast bulk of the Sabbat consists of the anti-clans and clanless Panders.
• Brujah Antitribu and Gangrel Antitribu are by far the most numerous anti-clans. They match the Sabbat’s violent, uninhibited ethos perfectly and are sired constantly for front-line fighting.
• Nosferatu Antitribu maintain solid numbers because their paranoia regarding Gehenna naturally aligns with the Sabbat's religious zealotry.
• Panders & Caitiff form an enormous underclass within the Sabbat. Because the sect doesn't care about lineage as long as you bleed for the Regent, the clanless can easily make up 20% or more of a war-torn Sabbat domain's temporary numbers.

3/3

>>98841275
it is a technocracy hub, but the infernalism in the city makes every supernatural kinda crazy so like the text mentions it's a technocracy hub where everyone in charge is sure they would get retired if someone from the outside looks in
>>98841259
there are bits like it's mentioned that the sabbat used to be bigger than the camarilla but lost 3/4 in their lattest civil war so right now they are smaller again

the v20 true black hand book mentions that caitiff and attribute both each outnumber the lasombra in the sabbat

and the old wod europa book mentions that people really understimate the number of ventrue and that in europa they are the most numerous clan, but again this is really old early wod lore

giovanni think that they are probably smaller than the setites but larger than the tzimisce

>>98841259
Not to my knowledge, if I had to make a guess though.

>Ventrue are the least populous despite being the most common to find in positions of power.

>Gangrel are also uncommon but less so, due to their existence at the periphery of undead society and tendency for fledglings to just die without a sire's guidance.

>Brujah and Toreador are overpopulated.

>Malkavians aren't common, but also not rare.

>Nosferatu are very YMMV, some cities are overflowing with them, others have a warren of like, four vampires.

>Non Cam 7 clans are not even guaranteed to exist in a city, and likely have only 3-5 total members (total, not each) in a big city.

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>>98841305
Isn't that literally what the CofD Blue Book is for?
I suppose there's also HtV tier 1 or Innocents. Though I'm not personally sure how much UUUUOOOOOHHHHH ToT Innocents has.

Magical girl Mage anon who is writing his character's session zero moment, basically asking ideas on the next scene

>Effects of the wizard duel felt across the university (basically electrical equipment gets fried and all piping gets fucked up, all the people connected to the Nephandus ritual are being drained faster)
>Second Nephandus shows up
>Avatar warns the MC of the Nephandus’ intentions
>MC refuses to listen to the Nephandus (who is pretending to be a cool guy)
>Things go sideways as more damage gets dealt to the university
>Nephandus decides playing nice won’t get what he (or she, undecided) wants, tries to threaten the mc
>More damage gets dealt, the floor collapses
>Nephandus tries to catch the mc with magic by forcing rebar and piping to catch the mc or break their fall, fails and manages to bludgeon the mc
>Because both the Nephandus and the mc are in a library hallway-wing that doesn’t exist in the mundane sense, they are shunted to where they would have fallen to if they had been in the “real parts” of the library.
>The part both fall to is the auditorium where the fight is taking place

After which there's some "Join me" "no no join ME" talk followed by something that causes massive amounts of damage to the building, and hurting the mc and the Hermetic enough for the Avatar to basically step in and go "yup, it's time"

Also generally asking if the writing's good. I'm planning on uploading it as a possible one-shot story if people like it enough.

The link to said thing, ignore the first portion that's in red.
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/11PvNP7QXxXgJJ3TE4s_2JnqpKIJe8oyFNc8cQyh3X9w/edit?tab=t.0

>>98841394
>Isn't that literally what the CofD Blue Book is for?
Yes, but it's not in the poll as its own gameline

>>98841426
>>98841394
the blue books in general have some fun stuff in it, but i really doubt most people here know enough about them to have strong opinions on them

>>98841444
The blue book is fine, my main gripe is how I am too stupid to navegate the door and investigation rules properly.

>>98841522
blue books if plural refers to all the splat neutral nwod books like yes core but also asylum, inferno, immortals, hurtlocker, antagonists, armory and so forth

>>98840984
>>98841124
The exact mechanic is listed in the W20 book. You need five successes on the shot, and at least three damage needs to get through soak in order to stake a vampire with an arrow/bolt. Use this knowledge as you may.

>wod be like
>what if halloween costumes, but le edgy

>>98841064
Sell me on CTL

>>98841644
Fun

>>98840537
I am fine with him existing but if I was given an option to drown him I would.

>>98839994
>oral storytelling
>factual accuracy isn't important
>meanwhile in real life
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/comparative-studies-in-society-and-history/article/abs/day-was-of-sudden-turned-into-night1-on-the-use-of-eclipses-for-dating-oral-history/464F2A1DBE397F0F2C221318A1004E44

>>98841670
I would say he'd use his magic to avoid it, but we both know he'd have to use 7 different spheres at adept rank to even attempt it.

https://strawpoll.com/NPgxeJK9KZ2

Probably autism, but I'm very curious how this plays out if unbound from a specific line.

>>98841716
as the resident demon fag i am going baali but only because demons aren't a option

>>98841716
>two ventrues
uh oh...

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>>98841258
Technically, you're only locked into eye contact (but they do actually have to see your eyes). Otherwise you're free to move around, speak, whatever, AND there's no generation restriction or time duration. They can spend a point of Willpower to automatically break out if they're attacked or harmed though.

Have fun, mon cher!

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look at these fuggin edgelords

>>98841716
>no legions or guilds
Grim

>>98841818
Given how well regarded wraith has proved to be in these threads it is a disappointment. I can only assume that there wasn't space in the options

>>98841644
Strong core conflict that gives most player-characters a very good reason to band together and cooperate with each other.
Premise that gives most player-characters a very personal stake in the core conflict of the game and a very personal goal.
Diverse x-splat that gives player-characters the option to be any of a vast number of very different characters, all of which still fit the premise of the game.
Strongly defined y-splat that provides four strong categories that covers most sensible reactions to the conflict and premise of the game.

Those are four main reasons for me. As long as I respect the premise and conflict that are central to CtL, I can play almost any character that I can think of and be confident that they will be personally invested in the chronicle, that they will be able to cooperate with the rest of the group and they will be able to fit into one of the four courts.
It's actually why I'm not the biggest fan of Vampire, Masquerade or Requiem. Groups need to put more work into constructing scenarios that give all of the PCs a stake in the outcome of the chronicle and a reason to cooperate with each other.

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>>98841716
Money makes the world go round

>>98840392
Every vampire player now has a responsibility to blood bond any Mage NPC they find in their game, on the basis that they're clearly some kind of Tremere.

>>98840032
>their human connections would know about a near genocide of humanity if it was in the dark ages!
Honestly, given how people are about genocides from much more modern eras IRL, I wouldn't be too sure. Ask your normie friends about the Rwandan or Armenian genocides, the Holodomor, or the Albigensian Crusade.

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>>98841716
Ooooo another malkavian in the general.
The voices said Empty, Hollow, and Thud.

>>98840134
I'd post games. But my ST has brainworms and can't keep his backstabby plots straight enough for VtM and my new job takes me out on the road for weeks at a time. Times are harsh.

>>98841923
A globalised millennia long genocide with wolves descending upon near every community to cull the weak, old and corrupt which is so horrifying that it leaves a permanent stain on the human psyche centuries later is a bit different from wholly localised genocides against specific groups lasting a few decades at most. Especially if it only stopped a few centuries ago. But W5 doesn't give a shit about making a coherent world.

>>98840403
A Tremere NPC in my campaign is doing all manner of horseshit to become Human and thus a Mage again. I now have a plan in case he succeeds, it's going to be fucking hilarious.

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fellow techbros...
ever since our catgirl pet project was liquidated we might have to defect to the reality deviants since they're promising government mandated get of fenris boyfriends...

>>98841953
I guess it'd be more like the Sea People's raids that lead into Bronze Age collapse. Scale becomes irrelevant to the human mind after a enough bodies pile up.

>>98842035
So I did some googling and apparently, I got my events backwards. The Sea People were fleeing the fall of the cities that survived via trading on Bronze. Which is kind of mindboggling, the unstoppable civilization razing invaders were No-Longer-Bronze Age Okies.

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>>98842031
Wow, the deviants aren't even trying anymore. Room 101 would be standard procedure but I doubt we'll get any use out of this one. Hand them over to Dr Reid.

>>98841716
>https://strawpoll.com/NPgxeJK9KZ2
>Banu Haqim
Why won't you use the correct name?

>>98841410
Opinions?

>>98841644
Battered women's shelter simulator.

>>98842085
Technically the Sea People weren't a thing. I mean, they were but they weren't. They weren't a nation or an empire or even an standing army. They were mixed populations of refugees, mercenaries, pirates and other displace people driven by severe droughts, famine, crop failures and other "natural disasters." While they traveled by sea in large fleets, they also moved by land with families, livestock, and household goods, making them a massive wave of human migration as much as a military threat. They were different groups of people across like 100 years, many of those groups were kinda created by the previous "Sea People." Bronze Age Collapse wasn't just an army destroying cities, it was an economical collapse of the whole system caused by an unstoppable migration.

>>98841259
The vast majority of all modern vampires are latent Salubri who go their entire unlives never realizing.

>>98841644
You get to enjoy the cycle of abuse.

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>>98841358
Did I miss a 7 or are AI still this bad at math?

>>98842232
AI is bad at math, but I double checked it, this thing it found at the OPP forum where someone did the math. I assume he rounded the numbers. Also there are other bloodlines.

Here are the actual numbers
>895 ventrue
>866 brujah
>776 Toreador
>758 Tremere
>668 Gangrel
>647 Nosferatu
>544 Malkavians
>514 Lasombra
>432 Tzimisce
>431 Giovanni
>293 Assamites
>257 Setites
>251 Ravnos
>206 Caitiff
>109 Cappadocians
>90 salubri
>68 Baali
>58 Gargoyles
>51 Samedi
>27 Panders
>22 lamia
>20 ahrimanes
>19 blood brothers
>16 kiasyd
>16 daughters of cacophany
>15 nagaraja
>14 serpents of light
>13 harbingers
>13 lhiannan
>10 xi dundi
>7 tlacique
>6 kinyonyi
>6 osebo
>5 guruhi
>5 children of osiris
>3 wu Zao
>3 akunansae
>3 Shango
>2 anda
>1 nkulu zao
>1 mla wutu

>So, proportionately. The Ventrue and Brujah each make up 11% of the total set, the Toreador 10%, the Tremere 9%, the Gangrel and Nosferatu are both 8%, Malkavians are 7%, Lasombra 6%, Tzimisce and Giovanni both at 5%, Assamites at 4%, Setites at 3% along with Ravnos and Caitiff. Cappadocians and the other 'major minors' (Salubri, Baali, Gargoyles, Samedi, and Panders - anything above 50 entries) make up a collective 5%, and all the rest make up 3%. What we wind up with is the 7 nominally Camarilla clans dominating with 64% of the documented population, Sabbat at only 11% (if we include the 485 antitribu, ~16% while lowering the Camarilla to 59%), the Independent Clans another 15% (18% with the Caitiff) and the bloodlines and 'major minors' squeaking along trying to avoid notice at just ~7.5% of the total population - and since that figure includes pre-culling Salubri, Cappadocians, Lamia, and Baali, we can probably safely remove most of those to bring it down towards 4%.
>https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-masquerade/891151-size-of-vampiric-population-by-clan-and-bloodline?p=891629#post891629

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So, how about that Goratrix and the Tremere Antitribu eh? What was he doing down in the prime Chantry in Mexico City? - The Universidad del Tercer Circulo de la Serpiente Dorada. Do you guys like the story that Tremere bodysnatched him and nuked the antitribu, or do you prefer the sucked into a mirror story? I'm thinking of making a the plot where it was the creation lab of the first Blood Brothers but nobody knows where it is anymore, so now they gotta extract the information from one of the feral Hermanas Hambrientas for the key to finding and accessing it. For what? Still yet undecided. Maybe clues to the secret of them reproducing/being able to embrace. Maybe information on Huitzilopochtli's dwellings and clues to his past as Shaitan/Nergal or how the antitribu dwelled in Infernalism.

>>98840134
>Maybe I'm missing something because the kind of people invested in sharing their games here are few and far between ,
I'm a dad now so it'll be a while before I can organize a session with friends. But I AM reading the Mexico City by Night+Diablerie Mexico+Chaos Factor to try to eventually run a game where the old gods never left, a homage to Mesoamerican myth clashing with the modern nights. Achilli has no idea what he's talking about since this is interaction with and interest in the games without the chance to play sill eventually result in more players. "It limits muh creative freedom" is a shit excuse and "supernatural simulator" isn't inherently interesting without fat lore.

>>98841068
Ta very much anon, I try to lean into the spirits a bit more just because they're such a unique creature to play with. I enjoy them a lot, I think if I ever ran a Mage game I'd want to include lots of them. And yeah, storyposting is a bit of a slog when it comes to maintaining continuity and catching people up, but them's the breaks.

>>98840227
Much appreciated anon. Next session the group will likely be investigating the Royal Mail depot in town, which the Pure are also looking into. God Machine cultists and Host shenanigans will surely overlap in an utter shitstorm for the PCs.

>>98842315
>That pic
You know, that actually could work for an Ecstatic foci

>>98842315
>I'm a dad now so it'll be a while before I can organize a session with friends.
Congratulations, I hope you get to enjoy your hobbies and share them with your kid later on

>>98842315
>I'm a dad now
May your kid grow up healthy and be embraced by a good clan.

>>98842652
nothing says "I love you." like condemning your child to eternity of torment.

>>98842652
why don't you settle down with a nice jewish vampire? That tremere is in town, I hear hes a doctah!

>>98842315
I love Goratrix and the Tremere Antitribu, but find pretty much everything they did with him from Revised onward to be disappointing. Nuking the Tremere Antitribu is the peak of "no fun allowed" setting writing.

>>98842652
You let him know at an early age that his life will fall apart fast if he falls for some Brujah hussie when they take their first steps as one of the cities young neonates. There is nothing more tragic than a promising young [insert clan here] facing a tragic final death at the hands of a rampaging Brujah ancilla

>>98842704
>Brujah ancilla
i didn't think there was such a thing, at least in the camirilla. I always thought they went straight from neonate / anarchist to inconnu elder without any steps in between.

>>98839040
>TQ
In Cainite society, generally, those "wealthy PCs" can easily be strongarmed by elders and those with political connections, especially in the Camarilla. The PC should be ready to defend their wealth and holdings because those can have a lot of political influence for a Kindred outside of just making their unliving conditions better.
Not to mention the Ventrue who are crazy about internal clan structure... if you even care about that lore. But generally, unless you already have power and earn big, older and higher earning local Ventrue can and probably would strongarm you out of it.

In the Sabbat though you would have to defend those literally and do it against crackheads or older crackheads who survived fighting other crackheads. I love the Sabbat because they are retards. It's always fun.

>>98842753
I can't imagine how inconvenient it must be being a vampire. All the banks close at 5 and open at 9.

>>98842802
I suppose thats why they need jews.

>>98842911
>So let me get this straight. I get to live for all eternity, have unlimited wealth and I have to do what in exchange?
>Drop off a deposit at the bank twice on the sabbath
>Ohhh, i dunno if thats gunna work for me..

>>98842941
you idiot, just get shabbos goy to do it for you

>>98840546
>Probably contrarian backlash against Mage fans who fellate Mage.
They've been trying for twenty years to teach the fandom that there's asterisks attached to the power wanking and I'm not sure they've ever succeeded.

>Karai Pyhare: Walk quietly without footprints, fit into impossibly tiny spaces. Get Rotshreck if they aren't in a tiny place for too long.
>Lostundo: Can copy the traits and appearance of anyone they feed from. Can't use any blood or disciplines in someone's house if they haven't drunk from them.
>Cipactli: Serpentis but crocodile themed, Setites canonically filing for copyright infringement. Need to sleep in water.
>Kalku: Discipline based around puppeteering people via blood, extra vulnerable to humans in some unspecified fashion
>Nuevo / Titlacauan: Can fuck around with mirrors, probably a better version of that one thaumaturgy path. When they get angry they start emitting smoke.
>Unhudo: Can walk up walls and even on ceilings or canopies, gets mummified as their vitae runs low
>Efraín's relatives: Discipline gives them the power to breathe fire, be immune to rotschreck and only take lethal damage from fire. Also likely has Protean in-clan. Blatantly exists as a curveball for 5th ed Hunter players relying on fire too much.
How would you rate the Central/South American bloodlines and their gimmicks?

fucking FINALLY got to run my Hunter: the Vigil game this week after waiting a month and I got to lay some real groundwork for shit
>Matheus, deciding that waiting is pussies, sneaks up behind the bald WPQS goon after the other leaves and puts his gun to the back of his neck
>The goon reacts superhumanly fast and tries to get control of gun, causing a shot to fire into the ceiling
>Oscar hears it outside and runs in as they're tussling and grabs the goon in a headlock
>With the power of Teamwork, Matheus tries to get control of the gun again, but this dude's freakishly strong
>So he pulls his OTHER gun instead, a taser, and shoots this guy right in the neck
>He drops to the floor convulsing as his buddy can be heard running back up the stairs
>Matheus shouts out that he has a warrant and to back down
>Once again with the power of Teamwork, he intimidates this guy into thinking they're cops looking for Cortés and standing down
>Once the bald goon gets up off the floor he says they're wasting their time, Cortés was already dead
>Gina in the meantime texted everyone about Cortés while he called her every misogynist name in the book from behind the panic room door
>The boys came down and they tried to figure out how to get Cortés to walk out
>They planned to go back upstairs, find the air vent to the panic room, and put burning towels in it to smoke him out
>Meanwhile Robelle finds a business card with "Meet @ 6:30PM" on the back and a ledger that's filled with names and meeting times in the office
>As she's leaving, she runs into the goons as they head back up to continue their ransacking
>Luckily Robelle is a goddess of lying so she BS'd being a cop as well
>Finally, she checks her phone and comes downstairs with the rest
>When the cell told her about the plan she was like "...you guys know Cortés knows me, right? I can just talk to him y'know"
>She convinces Cortés to come out, and they sneak him out undetected
1/2

>>98843063
>How would you rate the Central/South American bloodlines and their gimmicks?

They are fine but there's clearly not enough myth to flesh them out further or copy from other splats. The Unhudo should be a variation of the Risen but that's just me being anal in regards to blood drinking not being mentioned in the version I'm familiar with.

>>98843095
>Once they're on the road, they start interrogating Cortés
>He tells them that he hired a body double to meet an associate of his at 6:30PM on Thursday, and then go to court on Friday at 9AM
>Clearly that second part didn't happen
>Robelle shows the business card she found, confirming who the associate is
>One Ernesto Morello, of Ernesto's Painting
>He also doesn't know anything about WPQS besides that they're a legit business, been around for 31 years
>They even have a contract with one of the bigger landowners around, they work security at every one of his high-rise buildings
>That owner, Taylor Biscayne, is the one that bought Cortés the mansion in the first place
>The cell gets in contact with Mei from the other hunter cell since Kevin is busy
>asks if they can hide Cortés there since he's legally dead
>Mei agrees on the condition that she can hit him if he mouths off
>After dropping Cortés off, the cell decides to split and rest
>Gina & Matheus head home and research into WPQS
>They find the name of the current head, Damian Francis, and the Chief Strategic Officer(?), James Mullings
>Robelle returned home and remarked to herself how lucky they were that Cortés was alive
>Hears another woman's voice responding that they were very lucky indeed
>Turns around to see a woman clad in green floating Great Fairy style above her bed who calls herself Lady Luck
>Oscar returned home and fed his ornery kitten when someone rang the doorbell
>Some college-aged Latina was at his door staring down the peephole
>He cracks the door open to ask what she want
>She asks if this was the home of Oscar, the one who impressed El Toro
>He said yes, and she asked to come in
>given that she was the first to mention El Toro without seeming scared, he let her in
>She walks in, takes a deep breath in, and remarks that she's surprised he's normal before asking to use his bathroom
>Confused he says yes
>She goes in, takes a while so he checks on her
>The bathroom's empty

>>98843095
Congrats I hope you had a great time!
Also lying or ass off only to realize that it was completely unnecessary happens to me last game too.

>>98843215
Now that they've started investigating things they're finding the different strings they can pull. There's lots of ways they might be interested in heading, I'm curious to see which catches their interest the most next session.

>>98840392
This is BS, Mind 3 alone would be enough. Maybe add in Life 3 if you don't want to increase the duration of the Mind effect to last through the duration of withdrawals. Entropy 4 or Spirit 5 alone would also probably work. It makes sense that you wouldn't be able to break your own bond only if you're already fully bonded, but even then a pre-prepared charm or talisman would still work.

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>>98842669
Don't I know it!

>>98842987
Here we have a Chorister trying to get through to them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxlMFsw1OfY

>>98843063
Karai Pyhare, Lostundo and Unhudo sound sick. Efrain's feel like a retread of an existing fire based bloodline, but hunters should never have it too easy.

>>98843774
>Efrain's feel like a retread of an existing fire based bloodline
Who?

>>98843063
>Lostundo
Those are cool, specially if they can copy knowledge

>>98841372
>Sabbat is just a massive Pyramid scheme for Tzimisce and Lasombra shareholders
color me shocked

>>98844327
>vampires stuck in a biological pyramid scheme start making additional pyramid schemes to scam fuckers
Who could have foreseen that?

What would be a reasonable way to get a discreet blood doll? Also, if you feed the blood doll flavourful meal, do their bodily fluids get some flavour too?

>>98844349
Blood-play is a real fetish.
Lots of bdsm-style shit involve roleplay and leave the sub very vulnerable.
Kiss them good and they'll come back for more.
You are not ugly, btw, are you?

> Also, if you feed the blood doll flavourful meal, do their bodily fluids get some flavour too?
I don't think that's the case.

>>98843629
Good 'ol Lucy fucking it up for everyone

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Ended up doing my own sketch of the wolf Host from my Forsaken game. They're a fun antagonist and I look forward to using them again soon (once they've licked their wounds and reformed)

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>>98843629
the ebony legion did nothing wrong

>>98844390
ugh, bloodplay is fucking disgusting, great way to get irl AIDs.
vampires always filled me with a bit of revulsion, ever since i was young.

its like watching a fly suck the blood out of your body, you can sort of suppress the urge to swat at it, but watching it fills you with revulsion.

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>>98844454

>>98844456
Well, bro, it is what it is. You want a blood doll? The best place to find one is among the freaks.
That being said, Chadpire doesn't do that.

>>98844460
and that's why creation nearly drowned in nephilim

>>98841064
>Changeling: the Lost close to the top.
>Deviant: the Rengades close to the bottom.
This general really does have the worst taste, huh.

>>98842306
huh so perhaps the old europa book isn't outdated when it says the ventrue are the most numerous clan

i really thought that was just early wod jank

>>98844390
>you are not ugly
>asking on 4chan, the breedground of Nosies
Any advice on getting blood doll sub for those who didn't invest into appearance stat and don't have charming presence?

>>98844510
>motherfucker's not even learning presence
Obfuscate 3 and try to act like a "normal" bdsm enthusiast, not some sewer resident.

Gonna throw my pack into the London Underground to test them, this shit is bananas. Genuinely I think there must be a specialised role for London based Bone Gnawer Septs called "Tube Guy" who knows how all of this shit works.

I mean, Moon Bridges are the same, I suppose? That's a bit bizarre to think about. Moon trains and stuff.

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>>98844516
Good advice, "normal" BDSM enthusiast aesthetics is something Nosferatu can pull off well, it's proven way to get blood. Question is, what did sewer ratd do to get their sustenance before society went whole goth girl freaky. Or in countries where sewers aren't common.

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>>98844540
Their fledglings always fed off the dregs of society, any society, and their Elders didn't just ghoul animals. They have both Obfuscate to approach and leave their unsuspecting victims, and Potence to hold them down, anon, it's not that hard to understand. Before sewers you had caves, crypts, and many more dark places to haunt.
And in the end, the Nosferatu's kiss is as pleasant as any other non-Giovanni Kindred, and they can win the more open minded kine over by being much more humane than their less hideous fellows.

>>98844540
>Question is, what did sewer ratd do to get their sustenance
Freaking nosferatus eating animals.

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>>98844454
>They used humans as tools for experience and torture. They ruled from Dûdâêl, citadel of hate and violence, which lay surrounded by fire and geysers of poison gas. It is said that the fortress became the very image of hell as depicted by mortal artists for millennia to come.

>>98844540
nosferatu used to feed on the isolated and outcast. the sick and weird. the leper and the homeless

that's where their whole reputation as unclean really comes from

>>98844573
>pic
well abbadon also experimented on vampires during the dark ages.which might be the reason why demons in devil's due can make pacts with cainites while modern demons can't and he is from the house that has the lore of flesh as in house lore

so yeah those two are alike

>>98844573
I thought Tzimisce guy was supposed to have lost any sadism as he got weirder over the years.

>>98844581
that's what they tell you and then say that you screaming makes the torture better

the tzimisce alien mindset is complete wannabe with nothing to show for it

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>>98844581
the eldest weirdness is not that he isn't sadistic anymore but that he isn't aware when he is "he forgot how to be gentle"

he doesn't get why his clan members wouldn't want to be melted and absorbed as that is change and that is good right?

he doesn't get why his favorite son might have some opinions about being melted and impregnated into another tzimisce (let alone how the rape victim feels about that)

he doesn't get why his favorite grandson is scared of him when he demands that he feeds him other vampires

he doesn't get why it's wrong to turn into a giant monster in the middle of new york, he doesn't get why you are looking at him like that when he turns himself into a perfect look alike for a demon and he doesn't get why you are screaming

but that doesn't mean he doesn't likes it

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>>98844454
one the one side they have people who ran around with titles like "the Ravager of Innocents" but on the otherside said Ravager of Innocents is the og vampire hunter

>>98844692
>dripping with poison and fire
Just how many fire disciplines are there?

>>98844700
one less thanks to Fossegrim!

>>98844692
"Only I can rape, murder and murder rape mortals!'

>>98844581
I would be so disappointed if I met nice Tzimisce lady, and found out she didn't enjoy torturing me. Modern vampires are so meek and tame, I want sadistic montrosities to love.

>>98844622
that hairdo makes you look queer.

>>98844692
How long did the whole rebellion and Time of Atrocities go on for exactly?

>>98844733
measuring time at the pre fall world is a bit nonsensical because 7 days can also be a billion years and a single night can be years
>Both of these events happened at the same time, because they were the same event. The world was the universe, and the seven days lasted billions of years, and the result in both cases was Creation itself.

house of the fallen mentions a thousand years but also a single night for the pre punisment phase. centuries for the pre first murder phase and a thousand years for the age of attrocity but again all of those are just some view points

> Now it was time to prepare and teach humanity, in a single night that lasted a thousand years - before the forces of Heaven came to punish the rebels for the crime of loving too much.
>For hundreds of years, this quiet conflict went on between angels and demons, while humanity spread out to encompass Creation, guided by the ideals of the Crimson Legion.
>Lucifer tolerated the existence of the rebel legions and their predatory ways for a millennium and more
and another viewpoint has the entire rebellion last for only a thousand years
> whether or not they care. A thousand years of battle and incarceration in Hell has put most ofthe House a long way from its roots as overseers and protectors of nature.
so anywhere between a few days and i dunno trillions of years depending on how you look at it

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>>98841258
>Hopefully you can get some time to yourself soon. Here is a fishy in the meantime.
much appreciated

>>98840392
>cheesesteak writing
Not canon

>>98844774
>cheesesteak writing
what

>>98844784
Lurk more.

>>98842188
The migration was already caused by the collapse of the trade networks and multiple economies of the Bronze Age kingdoms. The "Sea People" get the blame because it was actually just caused by inept rulers who needed a scapegoat.

>>98844790
oh
you could just call him satyros or brucato like an ordinary person instead of coming up with some esoteric nickname that no one actually uses
i don't want to have to play mindgames every time i want to figure out what you're talking about

>>98844797
Its all cyclical and I am tired of this.

>>98844798
Retard he has put a powerful curse on his name, enjoy your erectile dysfunction.

>>98844798
>he said the name
Uh oh

>>98844798
Don't utter that fat fuck's name, dipshit.
Maybe one day you'll find your shift key.

>>98844797
>The "Sea People" get the blame because it was actually just caused by inept rulers who needed a scapegoat.
Inept rulers staying in power across all those communities at the exact same time would be too much of a coincidence, more likely explanation is population bloat during climatic optimum followed by steep downturn reducing annual crop yields globally to the point of mass starvation triggering chain of civil unrests and migration events.

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>>98844732
>that hairdo makes you look queer.
it is the first and greatest of the tzimisce what did you expect?

>>98844803
>>98844806
>>98844812
what is this retarded meme that has sprouted out of nowhere
just because brucato is a larper who has gotten into the occult in order to get some mentally ill pussy that doesn't mean he's an actual wizard
just say the actual names of people that you're talking about, i don't want to have to figure out that you're talking about brucato when you say cheesesteak or some retarded shit
i swear you guys are fucki

>>98840392
>Other gamelines must kow-tow to the might of WoD's cashcow even if realistically according to setting logic, the vampires would just get cucked in this scenario
many such cases

>>98844816
i dunno i just like calling the guy goat boy and goat fucker

>>98844692
desu, "KILL IT WITH FIRE" is a natural reaction of anyone and anything when encountering a Tzigger.
>>98844700
Vicissitude and Koldunic Sorcery

>>98844822
Which is why the ultimate authority of the game, the Storyteller, can ignore stupid ass shit like that

>>98844454
>>98844460
>>98844489
If a result of interbreeding a demon and human is nephilim, while that of a vampire and mortal is dhampir, will the offspring of a demon and a vampire be a nephilim or a dhampir?

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>>98844894

>>98843628
As was said earlier in the thread, the blood bond is a mystical link between the domitor and the ghoul. All that Mind 3 could do is temporarily weaken the mental compulsion side of the blood bond, it doesn't remove the vitae from the ghoul's body, nor does it sever the mystical link between the ghoul and the domitor.
Life 3 makes sense for destroying the lingering vitae that's causing that blood bond and Prime 3 would make sense for destroying the magical link. Entropy is the only odd one out, though something like Entropy 5 could theoretically destroy the compulsion, the vitae and the magical bond all at once.

>>98844456
>vampires always filled me with a bit of revulsion
They're supposed to.

>>98844732
>that hairdo makes you look queer.
The usually do.

>>98844798
But if they did that they've have nothing in their lives to feel superior about.

>>98844894
demons need a specific relic to make nephilims otherwise they are just infertile(before the fall) or genetically human (dtf) so without the item it should be a dhampir and if you have the item it depends on if the already weakened curse of caine from a thinblood overpowers the nephilim relic like it does when a vampire is possessed by a fomori or not

that being said being the mother of a dhampir would be fatal for a demon because they gain torment for every round they are in contact with vitae because it's a divine curse of god so after a max of 100 seconds of pregnancy they burst out of their host and get dragged into hell

>>98841716
Changelingbros... Even the demons got in...

>>98844894
dhabi revenant

>>98844916
>or genetically human (dtf)
Man, that part of the lore always disappointed me. I want actual cute demon girls, not some poor possessed human. Is that too much to ask?!

>>98844327
Already discussed, Sabbat is tzigger welfare scam made so Masquerade jannies go after shovelheads and leave tziggers alone to turn hobos into geodudes and pretend it's XIII century.

today I will remind them
Tötentanz

>>98845134
This gives me a dumb idea for a tzimisce pack obsessed with making pokemon szlachta by mixing animal & human flesh and calling themselves The Elite Four

>>98844798
>Achilli browsing this general and sperging the fuck out when somebody shits on him
>Now mage the tard writer doing the same
How many loser writers from WoD we need here? Don't you guys have lives?

>>98845179
That could be also fun for True Fae, who doesn't like collecting hu-mons and making them evolve and fight against each other in story about becoming a champion.Contracts could nicely work to balance to types with their strengths and weaknesses.

>>98845187
The only writer which I remember was actually confirmed on 4chan was the developer of mage the awakening 2e. Which is probably why 4chan magefags are extra uppity.

>>98845238
There have been plenty of instances of devs coming here, shilling and shitposting though. Ever since V5 came and in previous thread we have a sperg who was very likely Achilli too.

>>98845313
Unless you have Achilli literally admitting to being here I will call you a likely schizo. Dave B did admit and if I remember even tripfagged.

>>98845329
Why would anyone come to an anonymous board to admit who they're, imbecile?

>>98844894
Nephampir

>>98845334
Why not, Schizo-kun? Dave B tripfagged, shared spoilers and discussed the game and confirmed that on his official posts on the whitewolf forums, so we can say he was here and there's evidence.

Achilli being here is your headcanon, unless you have evidence?

>>98844917

Goddamnit I'm not adding every random splat, no one's favorite game is Dreaming!

>>98845346
Sure, dishonest shitstain. Care to pass me your email, real name and social media? And post a photo of your real face since you're at it.

Good morning, kine.