1351 - Backstab Priority
>>98840714I think she's talking about pegging.
>>98840734She's a shapechanger and it's confirmed she's grown a dick and fucked him before.
>>98840714the new "intellectual" Nale seriously gets on my nervesI mean he was always brainy, just that now he has this "fireplace musings" sort of vibe that ironically comes off as really adolescentand what kind of villain doesn't have a dozen paladin-flavored one-liners readythey're the easiest targets in Player's Handbook
>>98840867>now he has this "fireplace musings" sort of vibe that ironically comes off as really adolescentwhich may be considered development and maturing from his previous childish antics
>>98840879it's not development if the guy in question keeps saying "look how much I developed" over and over againhe has yet to get over himself
>>98840769>She's a shapechanger and it's confirmed she's grown a dick and fucked him before.where did they mention that before?
>>98841714
You know what? I think Nale has earned being happy in hell with his demon GF forever. Say what you will but the guy is tenacious and I don't want him to have a bad ending.Also man the OOTS losing all the time get draining.
i wonder how nale would react if he finds out the truth about the snarl
>>98841753They cornered Sereni and then beat the shit out of a dragon in a fair fight, it just feels like they're always on the back foot because we're averaging one combat round every two months.
>>98841939That whole dragon thing is dumb because all he had to do was ask to be let free. But oh no, gotta have revenge. Fucking CE man.
Thog.
Time for the lich and his mitd bitch to enter the scene. Nobody gets to kill steal the paladin that fucked up his afternoon.
upscale.
>>98840879>>98840898It's notable that even when people have character development, they don't just suddenly, completely become someone else. He can have changed his perspective on a number of things, and also still have some of the same behaviors and flaws.
Great, almost a round of combat this time. See you in three weeks.
>>98842922>>98840867>>98840879It's clearly intentional. Nale THINKS he has changed a lot, but it's obvious to the reader he's barely changed at all. See picrel for the most blatant example of the "new Nale" completely missing the point.>>98841998Lol
>>98842949Notably, Nale is, at his core, still his alignment. Especially after the transformation, it's baked into what he is. No amount of realizing how things could have been different after he was dead is going to change certain fundamental things about him.
>>98842922>when people have character development, they don't just suddenly, completely become someone elsesureit's that he sounds less like someone who truly changed and more like an impressionable teenager who hasn't put his new beliefs to the test yettrue change happens only after you've actually done something new and tasted the results compare Belkar, who at some point simply started behaving differently, and only afterwards Roy commented on itthe best that can be said about Nale is that he's taking the first step, even though he's speaking as if he's already completed his journey
>>98842949Which point did he miss?
>>98843427Belkar didn't change all at once either though, even when his epiphany was sort of forced onto him. He started actively acting differently on purpose, but he took time to internalize it until he unwittingly became more like the thing he thought he should pretend to be.In that way, it's actually a lot like how you described Nale. It's actually a good parallel to point out.
>>98844148A lot of readers are more lenient on Belkar since his case was tied to the lone character arc Rich has ever given him, that being finding a proper answer to the question he had all his life; "Why should I give a damn about anyone but myself?" Which is initially "self-preservation" before evolving into "Because there are people who give a damn about you, even if you don't think you deserve it" with the cat, then Durkon, then effectively the rest of the Order.Nale by contrast hasn't really learned anything except that he has daddy issues, and the closest thing he has to an answer to his daddy issues is just say "I'm just over all that emotional baggage now" without actually addressing it outside of a single monologue. And judging by the fact that despite his claims otherwise he's still overinflating both his evil genius and his narrative function as "end game boss" instead of the real "last minute obstacle" that he is, he's outright doubling down on the same things that got him killed the first time and it's only his power boost combined with the comic's schedule that's allowed him to last this long.Granted, I don't hate the direction Rich is giving for Nale, but given how long this stuff has been going on, the Linear Guild's presence does feel at present tacked on and a bit of a time waster. It'd probably be easier to read through later on, like when I'm reading it all at once instead of waiting between strips.
Gotta admit, the only thing Nale could do that would make me think he's "lame" and "didn't learn anything" is if he betrays/cheats on/breaks his demon GF heart. That'd be a point of no return for me in regards to me.I mean he's a total piece of trash but everyone deserves love. If he fucked that up he'd have literally nothing.
>>98844090He's taking a deal with the devil to destroy reality and his main consideration that "reality" is where his dad lives.
>>98844249Well, it slots neatly into his previous think, just that he's putting it into practice now. That is, he's acknowledging that he doesn't need the glory and ego stroking of doing things such a specific way for his goals, when doing them differently could be sufficient, more effective, and be less personally stressful. The lesson he took away was "I thought I had to be tougher than everyone and make sure they knew it, but that cost me everything," rather than some more meaningful moral quandary.
>>98841998>you're romeo>oh, forsoothpristine
>>98844249Yeah, and? That's the most important part of the world for him. Why would he give a shit about the rest of it?
>>98845504It's a swerve where he makes a big speech about how beating his father and rubbing it in his face is no longer important, and you expect it to mean he's grown past "beating his father" but instead swerves and fixates on the "rubbing it in his face" part. It's framed as a joke due to being another example of Nale's vanity and general cluelessness on full display, but due to the general lack of humor surrounding the context and the leadup to the punchline, it feels more like he's basically vowing to be the exact same person he was before just with a mildly more pragmatic "twist".
>>98840714shame haley never replaced those adamantine arrows, also Nale broke O-Chul's katana; I hope that wasn't an enchanted katana, I guess he can use Roy's great club.
Thank god speaking is a free action or else this fight might have ended already
>>98840714God I love Sabine. She and Thog are way better than the bum they're attached to.
>>98847723Nale might be a scenery chewing foil but within the Linear Guild he's very much the straight man. That makes everyone else shine but that doesn't mean those elements could stand on their own.
>>98847777nice quads megajesusPersonally I prefer Sabine and Thog over Haley and Belkar. But maybe it's just because they're in smaller doses.
>>98847777I was going to disagree but damn, guess you're right. Go off king.
>>98840714So this is when the paladins and Sunny are written out of the story right? O-Chul is going to throw Haley down the hole and do a final smite evil with his fist before the story cuts away and never mentions them again. Nale too, as a general once complained the story has become to unfocused and muddled.
>>98849676do you really think current OotS has in it to unceremoniously drop characters like that?at this point everybody has twelve pages of backstory and we're not leaving until every last loose thread is tied offwell, unless Rich runs out of steam and rushes the endingbut he's not the type of writer to do it deliberately
>>98840867It's worse, anon. Nale's being aware of his tropes and story elements. He's acting like Elan!
>>98840714Out of interest, just how long was Nale dead before he came back? In the story I mean, I know it's been better part of a decade for us.Because if it's been less than a week for them, then I've just thought of a really funny way to deal with him, as given that he willingly took a deal with the devil to return to the material plane... he might qualify all the requirements for a Reincarnation spell.>Goes for the final blow.>Gets reincarnated as a newt.>(He does not get better.)
>>98850756Doesn't the soul have to be willing for that spell to work?
>>98850756It might have been more then a week considering it would have taken a week just to get to tinkertown and then to the godsmoot and flying to the last dungeon.
>>98850761yeah it does.
>>98850761It has to be willing to come back to life. Considering that Nale took a deal with the literal devil just to come back and do this, that might count as "showing a willingness to return to the prime material".It's the time constraint that's the issue.
>>98850756>Out of interest, just how long was Nale dead before he came back?I think it is around 3 hours or something
>>98850756Honestly I have no fucking idea what the timeline for this comic was.
>>98850756>>98851612>https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?361715-Countdown-to-Belkar-s-Death-Scene>Day 20 - Strip 836 Daylight reunion of OotS. Very long day. Much happen. Wow. Day ends on Strip 945.>Day 21 - Strip 946 Dawn of a new day. Julio takes his leave, Evil Vampire Durkon communes with Hel.>Day 22 occurs off screen>Day 23 - Strip 952 Captain Bandana: "Damn it! Three days in command, and I've already wrecked the ship.">Day 24 - Strip 964 The Mechane limps into port at Mechanicsburgh Tinkertown, repairs will take one day.>Day 25 - Strip 992 Party debarks at the Godsmoot.I don't know how many days we've had since the Godsmoot, but it's probably been a week since Nale died.
>>98851628>even the dude trying to keep count of the days gave upLfmao. Also I now remember why I fucking hated forums
>>98851673>the release schedule is so slow that talking about something that happened a week ago is necroposting
>>98851673Why do forumfags get so butthurt over "necroposting?" Why should time stifle discussion?
>>98851945Necroposting is a well known way to troll internet forums by "bringing back" topics everyone had lost interest in discussing years ago for the express purpose of pushing down threads full of actual discussion to mildly inconvenience and annoy the regulars. Most people would tell you to just make a new thread optionally with a link to the old one if you honestly wanted to start discussion anew on something.
>>98851945Typically when it's not done deliberately to shitstir or reignite a flamewar, it's done by a dipshit who doesn't read and rather than catch up on community context just starts posting shit. Lurk moar is doubly important when the archive is accessible.
>>98851695>>the release schedule is so slow that talking about something that happened a week ago is necropostingThat's kinda true, but it's simultaneously a bit reductive.Oots does update pretty slow, but you could say the same for a lot of webcomics. Even if pages were releasing regularly, you could still have someone posting in a thread about something a week ago in the story be a necropost.There's the question about how fast/regularly pages come out and how big they are. But then there's also the question of how much happens in those pages and how much in story time they cover. Some stories are very fast paced and some slower paced, in regards to how much time passes in a chapter/page/episode/whatever. You can have story that has the same length in terms of pages, yet one covers the events of a day and the other covers the events of weeks to months. There's comics that have updated more regularly than this and covered less time.
>>98840734Man, I'm really tired of people going>Haha yes this guy gets fucked by women BTWTo male characters.
>>98844249I mean, literally everyone he cared about was in hell. Why would he care about reality?>>98845548I mean he did refuse the offer at first until it was forced on him.
>>98851945It's a stupid relic that moderators latch onto because it gives them a false sense of power and users endorse enthusiastically because they just need a boot to lick
>>98844216The planar scenes will be an unasked-for but brisk little detour. This fight scene will still be the pits 20 years from now. The only maybe 4 people on Earth interested in a meticulous round-by-round demonstration of the power of this steel donut are reading this post.
>>98851964>>98852032this means necroposting is or isn't a problem based on the content of the necropostwhich means the solution should be to remove the offending post, rather than close the threadbecause it's perfectly possible to add something relevant to the discussion five years after it started
>>98853258Again, you can also just start a new thread if you want to do the same thing without coming off as a troll. It’s the same with here, nobody thinks bumpfag is doing anyone a service by keeping threads nobody’s interested in on the front page.
>>98853369Which MLP forum are you moderating, anon?
>>98853417You can quit pretending to be retarded now
>>98853369but 4chan has a different culturethreads are designed from the ground up to be ephemeralwhereas a traditional forum is meant for slower, more persistent conversation>just start a new threadit's silly to have to being a new forum thread with "in response to post X" in OP just because an automated system closed the discussion after 6 monthsor sometimes the discussion closed without a definitive answer, which you could provide now but again, can't without creating a new thread, with all the inconvenience this bringsthere are tons of valid reasons why someone might want to add to an old conversationStack Overflow has people posting new, worthwhile answers to questions asked 10 years ago, and that's the site that used to be optimized for curating expert knowledge
>>98853441Honestly anon, if you don't like that system, you should be arguing it with the Giant in the Playground Games moderators, not some nobody on 4chan like me. I'm only explaining why I've seen people prefer to start new threads on internet forums rather than resurrecting crusty threads that served their purpose and should be allowed to rest.
I heckin love forums and forum culture and I just NEED to suck dick at least twice a day
>>98853466that's a lame way to talk, anonI understand the impulse to explain a position you don't hold, but once you speak, you're part of the conversationI'm speaking to youdon't hide behind somebody's opinion, because for me that's like talking with a paintingI should think it's obvious I'm not posting here with the intent of spearheading a change in gitp forum policies
>>98853466TL;DR forum users are retarded and so are you.
>>98853483I would rank the average forum user above a discord tranny, but only very slightly.
>>98853490It really seems like you ARE talking to me like you're trying to argue that GITS should be changing their policies, though. Which is something I can't do, nor would I care to. But fine.Anyways, I'll just put it bluntly that there are indeed conversations that have a shelf life. Like when talking about an ongoing webcomic. Information and theories can become outdated in a few issues, especially one that goes as slow as Order of the Stick. That and frankly, most necroposts I've seen are rarely ever about reopening a discussion. They usually amount to someone going "I'm bumping the thread" or telling some guy five years in the past he was wrong about something, despite the fact the guy in the past could very well be long dead. And if you're wondering what kind of bored loser would basically try to go through someone's garbage just to pick a fight with them over something they said years ago, twittertards do the same thing for the express purpose of making people look bad. That's the legacy necroposting has by now.If someone genuinely wanted to find info on something that's been wiped off the internet or buried under years and years of discussion, it'd be one thing. But most just used the power of necroposting to be jackasses, like the kind that would post >>98853483 or >>98853496and they basically ruined it for the rest of the internet.
>>98853539that's more like itI'm not advocating for necroposting in general, I'm advocating against strict closing measuresbecause I think they also do harmperhaps my perspective is warped, but when thinking about automatic closing policies, I remember help forums for a particular techsomeone posts a question, "How to deal with issue/bug X?"multiple people agree it is, nobody has a solution, the company resonsible is silent, and then 30 days later the topic is closed by a "helpful" botall it does is sweep uncomfortable topics under the rugpeople like you describe who hunt for targets are dregs of society, but there are also people who just arrive at an old conversation via search, and might have something good to add>telling some guy five years in the past he was wrong about something, despite the fact the guy in the past could very well be long deadthere are pitfalls of necroposting like you describe, with which I agreethe new poster should keep those in mindbut while telling a particular guy he was wrong 5 years ago is probably pointless, pointing out a mistake for everyone has meritsome subjects don't have an expiration datealso, it's normal to express opinions about how you would like something to change, without means of changing itthat's what much of anime discussion is
>>98853606When I say a topic has a shelf life, I am mainly thinking of topics that are say actual years old, not say in a week or even a month unless the forums are that inundated with threads that such an automation system is necessary. That's usually what I see in regards to necroposting, people intentionally going out of their way to add useless attention-grabbing posts for the purposes of annoying people. Far less of the "I had a question of this obscure thing that I don't see anyone talking about anywhere else, so I'm going to ask here" thing.Also, the main benefit of posting a new thread rather than reviving an old thread is that you're more likely to get the immediate attention of the current active userbase rather than trying to get the attention of users who, as I've pointed out before, might well be dead or have moved on ages ago. A new thread is more likely to attract users that often have far more up to date info and help direct you to any other threads of interest related to the subject they've discussed in the past. That, and necro'd threads get less engagement on average from forum posters who see a long thread suddenly pop up on the front page, dismiss it as either a troll or bot, and never engage in it.Like say we take your tech thread question for example. If you genuinely wanted to find out how to fix a certain bug but don't know where to look, which is more likely to get up to an immediate answer? A thread from a decade ago that had little engagement to begin with that has no answer, where most of the users are probably long gone? Or a new one directly pointed at the current userbase, one that might even be able to point to another forum thread where they DID answer how to fix said bug and you genuinely missed it?
>>98853686>which is more likely to get up to an immediate answer? A thread from a decade ago that had little engagement to begin with that has no answer, where most of the users are probably long gone? Or a new one directly pointed at the current userbase, one that might even be able to point to another forum thread where they DID answer how to fix said bug and you genuinely missed it?I will grant you making new thread works fine when the question is simple and doesn't require much contextproblems arise when you need to convey a more complex situation so it goes>he guys I have an issue X>that's easy, just do A or B>I tried A and B, but it doesn't work due to limitations K and L; also, when you think X you're actually imagining X1 while I'm talking about X2, a fringe version*five posts spent convincing people that X2 exists and is an actual problem for some people>oh in that case try C>nope, doesn't work*crickets**thread dies*in the above case, it would be way, way easier for someone to continue the existing discussion later on, than trying to open a fresh thread and lose all that history and contextyes, getting into it requires a big investment from new posters, but you don't want uninvested posters to begin withthat's how Stack Overflow or sensible Github projects workyou can also try to make a new thread that begins by summing up everything up until nowbut you probably realise as well as I do that's also a great way to have zero engagement
>>98853821We're likely coming at this from two very different perspectives, considering you're talking about Stack Overflow and Github. Most of my experience with internet forums has been on either smaller fandom sites or long dead special interest ones. Having access to the entirety of a documentation process is naturally common sense for a tech-based forum, since even outdated tech information can be useful. Wheras with fandoms...trust me when I say that wading through older threads on fandom discussions generally isn't worth it unless there's something very specific you need to know, like if a comic creator or insider is posting specific information or you wanted a snapshot of what people believed about a certain character before a big reveal.Like just for an OOTS example, any given discussion of Miko Miyozaki is incredibly context dependent on whether this was before she had become a fallen paladin, because the hate train on her REALLY got started once the people that hated her got confirmation from the comic itself she was a shitty paladin, rather than just being someone who rubbed a lot of people and readers the wrong way. Someone who was reading the comic today, having Miko's full rise and downfall, will have an entirely different perspective on her than someone from over a decade ago, and they'd probably want to talk to the people in the modern age about their thoughts on her rather than pouring over and debating points made previously that some people might not even believe anymore now that the full picture is available.
>>98853881>you wanted a snapshot of what people believed about a certain character before a big reveal>any given discussion of Miko Miyozaki is incredibly context dependent on whether this was before she had become a fallen paladinfair enoughfandoms probably mostly live in the here and nowI think what gets me most is when the time until a thread closes is at odds with what I consider the natural rhythm and lifespan of the discussionif I had to institute a cut-off, I would err on the side of cautionit's highly context and subject dependent, which is why I don't like automated systems that work like unfeeling pruning shearsbut I suppose that's a different situation than when a human moderator decides enough is enough
so what do people on /tg/ think the monster in the dark is?
>>98855191Overall I agree that a Protean with the consensus that it's probably a Protean or some other epic abberation/outsider, but there's so many templates and potential oddities that it's almost not worth speculating on at this point.
>>98852062see last 3 frames of >>98841730
>>98855191I think he's one of the Gods of the East. Among other things, there has to be some lore related reason that he's incapable of perceiving the gates.
>>98855353It's possible but Rich has said in the past that the MitD wasn't a monster he made up so we're all on the assumption it's in some type of official monster manual. I guess the greek gods had a official book with stats somewhere.
>>98855405This is the full quote:>So, just so everyone is clear: I know exactly what the Monster in the Darkness is. I have (almost) always known. Its first two or three appearances were before I had worked out much of the plot's details, so at that point, I just figured it was a mystery I would never answer. Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since. (Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is, either.) [...]I now know exactly when and why the monster will reveal itself, too ... don't expect it any time soon, though. Sorry. There's a lot of story left, and that little tidbit will need to wait to close to the end. I will say this much: It is possible to guess. That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster. I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.Note that at no point does he ever say that Mitd is a D&D monster, just that it's "something someone else made up". The Greek pantheon would certainly qualify. Just because his autistic forumites assumed it would have a entry in the monster manual doesn't necessarily make it so.
>>98855280For context to anyone wondering, the Hagunemnon/Protean is from the Epic Level Handbook.https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hagunemnon.htmThat does seem kinda plausible to me. I've seen it suggested before.> but there's so many templates and potential oddities that it's almost not worth speculating on at this point.I feel like there's not really that many things it could possibly be, since it has to be published before the 2004 point or so and it has to be a living thing.
>>98855459Iirc it has to be something that can unwittingly intimidate Xykon and Redcloak, a pair of powerful casters in the 3.5
>>98853881>>98854040Miko could've had a happy ending.
>>98840867>they're the easiest targets in Player's Handbookenchanted full plate ac is nothing to sneeze at, anon. unless you've got touch attacks.
>>98855581>I fear no man, but that... thing... it scares me.
>>98855440>I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.All monsters are made-up though...
>>98855581Hagunemnons have bigger physical stats than most dragons and they can copy damn near any EX ability and attack form.
>>98855440>The Greek pantheon would certainly qualify.The forums have a good argument against it being that.
>>98859512Which is?If you're talking about Xykon being able to brainwash Mitd while creatures with divine ranks are immune, then I don't think it's conclusive. Xykon almost certainly used an epic spell on him, some kind of permanent suggestion, and it's possible to develop epic spells that can ignore mind-affecting immunity. It would even make sense for Xykon to have such a spell, since most of his build is dedicated to killing casters. He'd have strong incentives to develop a trump card that targets will save against brawnier enemies protected by mind blank.
>>98859686>https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25496152&postcount=3>First, note that "a god" is not a specific proposal. There are hundreds to pick from, many with wildly different capabilities. Furthermore:>If they have D&D stats, they will have Divine Ranks, which automatically gives them immunity to mind control (see Section 2c: Categories). This applies even to demigods (rank 1-5).>They can speak every language - unsurprising they can talk>Why would the SBGH think there is a market in selling deities?>Any deity RC would consider appropriate for his team (Evil/Neutral ones) can Animate Dead, or copy it through Miracle.
>>98859709>>98859686Not to mention the MitD gets hungry and sleepy, and entities with divine ranks don't need to eat/sleep/breathe.
>>98859715Most of these objections seem somewhat incoherent and beside the point to me. Actually, why don't I outline my theory since we're on the subject already?>Snarl attacks the Greek pantheon and undoes creation>The remaining Gods THINK that the snarl destroys the souls of its victims, but actually it doesn't. Instead, they're in cold storage within its infinitely tangled body. They are still there, but preserved >There's actually evidence for this in the form of the rift planet. It's obviously one of the lost worlds, but it still exists. >Once in a while, people fall out of the snarl. In this case, a God did and wandered through a nearby rift into OOTS world>Being delirious and half mad, it took the form of a nearby monster and assumed that monster was its father. Again, taking the form of a monster/animal is common in Greek mythology >It wandered around the jungle it got captured. Everyone mistook it for a rare monster, even Mitd himself >In light of this, all of his abilities make perfect sense. He could have a strong/ugly monster form, but also be capable of willing a greater teleport onto V and O-Chul.>>98859715I can answer these with evidence from the comic. Firstly, gods in this setting do get tired when they're starved of the resources they need. Just look at Hel. Also the fact that mitd is ALWAYS hungry is a suggestion that maybe food isn't really what he requires.
>>98859764>Also the fact that mitd is ALWAYS hungryWrong.
>>98859780Potato, potahto. Either way, MITD's appetite is largely unrelated to the amount of food he eats. Some outside condition caused it to change recently.
>>98859764>Once in a while, people fall out of the snarl.since when is that a thing?
>>98859825It's speculation on my part, though supported somewhat by the fact that the planet in the rift wasn't destroyed
>>98859825So if events that have no canonical basis were used as the foundation for a bunch of conjecture that would render any evidence meaningless due to such an entity being capable of literally anything, yes, you could conclude that it was a greek god. You could also conclude it was the lost soul of Mr. Rogers, or Banjo's long lost sister Harpsicord. The world is your oyster.
>>98859798>Some outside condition caused it to change recently.I'd say puberty but that increases your appetite.
>>98859931thanks anonI just asked a question, but I won't scoff at an oysterHarpsichord sounds like a delight
>>98859973My bad, that snark was meant for >>98859842 .
