Welcome Back Edition>Cyberpunk 2020 vs. Cyberpunk RED?Cyberpunk 2020 is the second edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG by R. Talsorian Games, set in a (then) future inspired by film noir and the dark science fiction films and books of the late 20th century. It focuses on simulationist gameplay and lethal near-future combat.Cyberpunk RED is the latest edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG, set after the devastating Fourth Corporate War. It focuses on more balanced, streamlined gameplay and is currently supported by R. Talsorian Games.>Resources for RED:https://datapool2045.net/>RED has free DLC and extra content, including character sheets:https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloadable-content/>RED Easy Mode is available for FREE:https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/409912/cyberpunk-red-easy-mode>Errata Pages:https://rtalsoriangames.com/errata/>Previous Thread:https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/98785084/#98785084Feel free to discuss Shadowrun and other cyberpunk games here as well.>Thread Question:How did you like the new season?Also how's your games been?
>How did you like the new season?Waiting to groupwatch it with my table, haven't seen it yet.>Also how's your games been?GM's been running Hope Reborn; there's been jank but we're having fun. No session this week, but last week we did the roller derby job and won on technicality because our martial artists beat up too many of the other team's players for them to continue.
Oh boy, can't wait to see this one fall into archives before even hitting 100 posts.
I miss Shadowrun
I'm starting a police themed game this Monday, I gave every player 2 ranks in Lawman to represent them being badges (but fairly low on the chain of command). What's some good inspiration on a cop game? Apart from the obvious, (RoboCop, Bladerunner, etc.)
>>98865525Cops or detectives? I mean, is the game gonna be more about investigating shit or (I suppose) badass action against criminals?
>>98865608Police action far more than detective work, (See pic rel.)
>>98865950I don't think there is much proper beat cop/action cop cyberpunk (aside from Robocop, consider the series as well). which might be refreshing. Maybe Dredd, if toned down? Most examples that come to my mind are anime, but they straddle into consipiracy/big mystery shit (GITS:SAC, Psycho-pass), maybe Patlabor counts.I'd just scavenge modern day procedurals for plots and inject a robust dose of cynical attitudes/you can't really set thing right. They're certainly lesser than the usual Chandler/Hammet shit your usual Blade Runner style cyberpunk apes, but those are about lonely private eyes and way less about your common people woes.
god dammit I still need to actually find a game relatively locally so I can do the richard nixon character idea I posted here ages ago
>How did you like the new season?Didn't like it, and hate how it's slipping further into "AI, hacking, and cyberware are literally just magic"
>>98866377Tbf it's trigger, you're gonna have to go with their foibles. Besides, the blackwall AI are unimaginable powerful in the game, I would assume an imitation of an AI would have significant power itself.
>>98865987add some ready or not, some swat 4 type situations. I'll add, just go looking for some Florida man type stuff on the side if they start getting depressed on the main plot. I've consider "Gunner, HEAT, PC!" for music, but that's mostly because the adaptive soundtrack.
>>98865525The Departed, The cops from Thief 1981, Dragged across concrete for inspiration for police corruption squads covering each other. Strange Days, Appleseed OVA, Ghost in the Shell for more mysteries in a sci-fi society. Manhunter for actually down to earth murder investigation. Dirty Harry or Hard Boiled for when the chief keeps blocking the party's leads.
>>98866377 >Didn't like it, and hate how it's slipping further into "AI, hacking, and cyberware are literally just magic"really it's up until the end parts is where it goes to far. smartpistols missing, cyberlimbs moving out of control , and cars crashing? fair. GIANT MECHASHRIMP is a step too far, but that's me sperging out. netrunners in my view of the preset rules of 2077, and red, and 2020 were scary when positioned right, but if I, a no cyberware dumbass with a .45 with no electronic parts went and shot at them, they would still crumple just as easily as anyone with equivalent armor.
>>98866616thief 1981 is also a decent inspiration for some of the "low tech" options criminals could try for manual safe breaking, and hell, it's a great film often ignored. one of my ideas playing around with night city's miracle mile (from data fortress 2020, if you're new and want shitloads of fan content for cyberpunk 2020 GO THERE NOW) was basically having a thinly veiled used car retailer straight from that film.
Inspired by King, I am going to play a character who had a close call with cyberpsychosis and had his chrome stripped out, but unlike King he had the scratch to replace it with cloned meat that he then got juiced up with European bioware, so he retains his experience, he's still somewhat superhuman, and he's unhackable and immune to things like EMPs. He's also going to develop an attachment to lower tech weapons that lack the advantages of modern iron, but lack the vulnerabilities as well. I already adapted a Nomad .44 lever action rifle from 2020 into a RED carbine. I'm going to see how I like a Solo/Fixer mixed role, to reflect the experienced wisdom of working behind the scenes rather than try to be a frontliner.
>>98864385>How did you like the new season?I felt no attachment to any of the characters, probably because instead of focusing on one guy, it tried to have four main characters at once. It also took way too long to establish the connection to David, and Talia needed a lot more screen time, she was the center of all the promo material, I don't remember seeing D or King in anything before the series released. It's not a bad story, but no one's going to feel for this one like the first, there is no Rebecca to be shocked by and mourn for, and there is no real villain other than the most generic corpo rat ever.
>>98866662GOD DAMN IT SO CLOSE
>>98866667And again! Fuck!
>>98866669Make peace with it, we missed it, sadly.>>98866654I’d go a little more advanced. For maintenance and just plain simplicity, I’d go with the good old m16, just to keep the old girl chugging along.
>>98865525AD Police, Parasite Dolls, AD Police Files.The early half of Silent Mobius if you don't mind more magical shit.Hyper Police for something sillier, but you can drop it once the time-travelling samurai shows up.Dominion: Tank Police and Conflict One
>>98866662>no real villain other than the most generic corpo rat ever.The first one didn't have a memorable villain either. Adam Smasher came in at the last minute to give his star power but it was also a story about David's struggle with himself.
>>98866654Always wonder why RED doesn't have any pistol caliber carbines, I'd think it'd fix the "rifles vs pistol" argument if all rifles didn't do 5d6 out the gate. Poor gangers should be using something closer to pic rel
>>98864464>GM's been running Hope RebornCondolences.
>>98866377Cyberpunk has been like that since the beginning tho.
>>98866722SOF2045 rules make putting together a gang goon priced pistol carbine easy to staple together.The Long-Barrel Pistol table uncomfortably reaches out to the 26-50m and 51-100m brackets; for a genuinely garbage peashooter a Medium Pistol could be given a Sniping Scope (Poor Quality for a Gunsmart offering would come out to 220 eddies; 20 for the pistol, 100 for the range, 100 for the scope). A more reasonable HP or VHP carbine could do the same thing for as little as 250; or roughly half the price of a shotgun.
>>98866747I was more so imagining Pistol caliber carbines being Pistol damages that come out of the SOF 45 Carbine range band being fired with the shoulder arm skill, I've homebrewed it myself. To basically give Rifles the same categorizes as pistols, Medium Carbine, heavy carbine, very heavy carbine, Full caliber rifle/Intermediate cartridge (5d6) which is a bit closer to 2020. Then you have the Anti-material rifles at 6d6 damage. Then maybe Anti-tank guns 7d6 heavy weapons.
>>98866667https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/98864739/#98866666Lmao.At least it wasn't a bait thread that got the quints, but a positive post even if not very relevant.
>>98866761That sounds reasonable, though you might be able to do that more simply by just letting SMGs and Heavy SMGs take the Carbine range as a Range Table Modification.
>>98866685>I’d go with the good old m16I do like that idea, but lever action guns are just too fucking cool. I suppose he could do both.
>>98866705Smasher had the vidya and 2020 edition building him up sure, but he wasn't just some random guy like the corpo. The only thing distinctive about that guy is that he's a bad father, Smasher had 10,000% gravitas with just four words.>who the fuck are you?
>>98866722They only very recently added carbines as a concept, before then all they had was "assault rifle but it can't autofire."
>>98866740Hey retard, where did tiny magnets in your arms and legs let you make a mega-mecha-shrimp-tank that can beat down small armies and the like show up before? Hell, where did anything close to it appear in the entire setting before?
>>98866857NTA, the telekinesis stuff is just stupid
>>98866761Why would I want to buy something with "pistol damage"?
>>98866788Anon, that's five words.
>>98867082Different ideal ranges, concealability, and ROF all matter just as much as damage.
>>98867087I already know I'm dumb you don't have to rub it in.
>>98866788I agree with you. It's hard to have an iconic villain without the build-up, though.
>>98867241If they didn't have four main characters they could have done that though. Or maybe use someone like Royce and have him survive. Shit, Talia caving in his face could have been why he looks the way he does in the game, while she does that King fights Dum Dum.
>>98867222also, suppressibility. I can make a mp5 a lot more silent then a hk53 for equivalent length, despite the fact that the hk53 does more damage, has better range brackets, and so forth. also, I can fit a SMG/PCC into a far smaller go bag package then a rifle, in the case of IRL use. a relatively usable backpack vs a duffle bag is a significant difference in being able to be clocked for being ready to get into a fight. I'd watch brassfact's bag gun video to point to this, but this is a /k/ autism subject, rather than a /tg/ autism project
Oh yeah, forget to say it here, but our RED game fell apart a few weeks back after we hit our final breaking point with the system. Granted it was a minor one, but it all just added up and we got sick of it.We were in a vehicle chase with the bozos and we destroyed our pursuer in a single round before half the group even got to do anything because all it took was one party member firing a shotgun slug and I shooting twice with a medium handgun to destroy the enemy car, because cars are just health pools that tend to be on par with NPC health pools and don't have anything to distinguish themselves. I don't get why cars don't naturally have at least a few points of armor or something.
>>98864385Sooooo can talia and king just get bioware with Talia's fat inheritance right? Right??Also fucking CDPR its just setting up orion with both series and dlc sending people to space right?
>>98866009nixon character idea?
>>98869861The Beast from Transmetropolitan.Transmetropolitan is generally a great source of inspiration for cyberpunk plot hooks and background elements, and still less edgy than author's later works.
>>98869861yeah, posted it here a while agoperfectly fine if an anon wants to steal it for a laugh
>>98869951might as well scale it up and do the whole gang
Can netrunners use something like a sandevistan alongside their cyberdeck on the tabletop?
>>98870060In RED they certainly can but it doesn't help them netrun. The netrunning action economy is often more of a question of how many NET actions you have rather than your speed, but either way you need better Cyberdecks, to run Speed increasing programs or take drugs.
>>98869417So did your GM forget that vehicle armor is a thing? >>98869788Cloned limbs are 50 eddies apiece in RED, that part of the plot is paper thin.
>>98866009I just want to see your streeet graffiti 'leet gamer tag of >TRICKKKYYYYYY DICKKYYYY>>98864385Loved the characters but story (especially the ending) was weak. If the first season is a 9/10, the 2nd season is a 7/10. I wish they had focused more on the satori kan vibe they had going at the start, but it's nice to see what would happen in the mix of things if 'suicidal death rush' wasn't on everyone's game card>Suicidal "imma stick my Edik in you" is allowed.>The real /tq/Why is Weak so much of a nigger in game?
>>98866662They literally had the Shouta instead of the loli, are you retarded. You don't even like entertainment fuck you.
>>98870355That kid is the Scrappy Doo of Night City, he's just "also there" when stuff happens, he serves no purpose other than someone for more interesting characters to explain themselves to.
>>98866612>>98866616>>98866686Good sugggestions overall. Funnily enough CP proper, the RPG, didn't build on the beat cop idea but it's dope.
>>98865525 (Me)>>98866612I play for the first session is that they have to save some Corpo's daughter who's fallen in with maelstrom for cyberware (She's an exotic), but the Stromers decided to just kidnap her, and ransom her for a stupid amount of ebs, and the PCs are assembled as a SWAT team, because they think C-swat would turn everyone including the girl into Swiss cheese.
>>98870007now that I think about it, who were the presidents in the cyberpunk timeline?
>>98870633They'd have every President up to Bush Sr, the timeline doesn't split from ours till 1990.
>>98870640and from bush sr.?
>>98870646The last president of the USA was Harold Harrison Hunt; Then you have the NUSA presidents.
>>98870231I should have specified, it wasn't just the enemy car that got fucked with just 2 attacks, but we nearly got totaled as well from 3 handguns. Also that we were both in hijacked street cars, so not stuff that was armored already. And having vehicle armor tucked away under the Nomad ability rules in the core rulebook surely doesn't help anyone, especially GMs new-ish to the system.
>>98870680Also a car needs to be reinforced which costs 1,000 ebs, and gives it +20 HP; Then you pay an additional 5,000eb for the armor. RED is intentionally written for vehicles to be too expensive for PCs to afford, unless you're a nomad. An Armored car has HP Equal to the strongest borgs in HP while wearing Heavy armor jack. So even then it isn't super tough if you have 4 people with heavy/very heavy pistols firing at it for a couple rounds.
>>98870360The plot of the show wouldn't happen without him
>>98870702>RED is intentionally written for vehicles to be too expensive for PCs to affordThere is another way.>Lockpicking or Body + Electronics/Security Tech ..and then driving, and fast.
>>98870484>CP proper, the RPG, didn't build on the beat cop ideaThe role got an entire sourcebook to itself
>>98870831Did it feature cop only parties?
>>98866857Ok but in Cyberpunk the following things exist and most are commonplace>cybernetic body parts >hacking cybernetic body parts>deep dive VR>putting your brain in a robot>uploading your brain to a chip>flying cars>guns that fire tiny guided missiles>rail guns>cars that run on alcohol made from a plant that doesn't exist>cloning >mech suits>turning yourself into your fursona>autonomous self replicating mines Complaining about realism in Cyberpunk is silly when the whole setting runs on handwaved sci fi technology.
>>98867222damage is king in cyberpunk due to how armor and crits work.
>>98870884Melee SP reduction is a hefty trait as well.There are many throwable weapons that retain that at range, meaning you can make Athletics into a main combat stat if you wish. However, brute force of Bodymaxxers who choke and throw their opponents is not to be underestimated either.
>>98870861Yes. But it’s for 2020 and came out before they thought of Fullborgs.
>>98870884And you deal no damage with a gun you cannot sneak past security, smuggle through a vent or otherwise get where you need it to be. If it's holding your dick or a pistol carbine, you'll be grateful to have a .45.The example adventure for SOF2045 straight up covers where this will be important; if you're going to be crossing the border in the false bottom of a semi-trailer, stacked like actual sardines you need to treat every inch of space as valuable.So the Solo can take a fold-down rifle because that's what his job is, but if the Netrunner is going to carry and be able to deal with enemies across dirt roads or fields if things go south, he's going to get a +P Nine with a holographic.
>>98870876>cybernetic body parts>hacking cybernetic body parts>flying cars>cloning>rail guns>cars that run on alcohol made from a plantWe have these, although the cybernetics are substandard.
>>98870876>unrealistic things A through F exist in this setting, therefore unrealistic things N through R are fineNo, idiot.
>>98870876There's a difference btween shit like basic cybernetics, and going near full-on Akira but with tiny magnets.It's on the same level as saying putting an AI into a shitty, cheap microwave can turn it into a nuclear bomb that can completely wipe out Night City. It goes above and beyond what has been shown before.
>>98870901Yeah sure, but it still doesn't change the fact pistols are low damage and cyberpunk combats are DPS races where handguns are ineffective compared to weapons with bigger dice.Also it's easy to get big dice+concealment through martial arts, so Handguns are undermined by them quite alot.
>>98870935>It's on the same level as saying putting an AI into a shitty, cheap microwave can turn it into a nuclear bomb that can completely wipe out Night City. It goes above and beyond what has been shown before.I dunno the replicating sea mines were equally retarded as your nuclear bomb example.Style over Substance lmao. Cyberpunk is in the same level of believability as Starwars or Fallout.
I haven't played 2077, so idk how cyberpsychosis is portrayed in it but I see people online who have played it and/or seen the anime talk about it like it's this strange boogeyman and you never know when you'll go over the edge. Even though the books clearly lay out how cyberpsychosis works. It triggers me.And didn't 2077 even come with a copy of the 2020 core book?
I wish there was a version that was an inbetween of RED and 2020, with more tactical combat but not as fuck-you deadly like 2020. Kinda like a PF2E instead of 5e
>>98870993Gamers and animeonlies can't read.
>>98870978Weren't the sea mines made by fabricators deep in the ocean, and not some ST:DS9 type thing where they duplicated themselves outright?
>>98871008Ah, double checked, and once again it's more retard CDPR writing magic tech bullshit. God I hate how they handled 2077 and changed so much of the setting seemingly just for the sake of changing it. Already didn't like what they did with the Sandy, especially when it came to Edgerunners.
>>98870996Some sort of bridge between the second and fourth editions of the game you say...?
>>98871041How was this one on a mechanical level?
>>988710292077 is the only reason the series is relevant.
>>98870996Cities Without Number is pretty good. It uses alot of DnD mechanics but if that's not a deal breaker give it a shot. The PDF is free and it has sheets on Roll20.I've been running it recently and it addresses alot of my frustrations with Red. The book is well written and easy to reference. The combat is fast paced and somewhat deadly, whilst not feeling too unfair besides d20 being swingy. Progression and Character Building is deeper, more varied and rewarding than Red. Cyberware is actually powerful. Granted I'm only a few sessions deep and could sour on it, but I really urge anyone sick of Red to try it out.
>>98870993That's NPCs talking, they don't read the books to actually know.
>>98870996Port in the hit location rules from 2020 to RED. Done and done.
>>98870947Here I'm thinking having a range of "No" can be something of a problem in any fight not taking place in a broom closet. It's not that fights don't happen close in the city, but when fights don't happen close you're in trouble.
>>98870993That's because in setting it is an ill understood syndrome and every piece of media that has been based on the rules you've mentioned has supported that interpretation. The fact that we as players and referees can look behind the curtain and see individual character's statistics, receive guidance on characterization and roleplay for certain levels of impairment and calculate with mathematical certainty the amount of ware characters in universe can handle doesn't mean that they can.As a reminder for RED, characters technically aren't supposed to be aware of the exact HP values of allies or themselves without a specialized high-function biomonitor.
>>98870633There is actually weirdly conflicting lore on this.In 2020 lore, the president and his vice-president are both assassinated in 1996 (vice-president apparently by accident as he was the intended puppet of the Gang of Four). The Secretary of Defense Jonathan Seward declares martial law and effectively becomes acting President until he is assasinated in 2002 and replaced by William Newell. Martial law ends and free elections return in 2008 and from then we know of a President Blair who dies in 2019 and is replaced by Elizabeth Kress.In RED lore President James Richard Allen is killed in 1996 and replaced by his Vice President, a gang of four and corporate stooge, Harold Harrison Hunt (Ferris F Fremont?). He is assassinated by a mob ~2003 after the fall of the Gang of Four and replaced by Jonathan Seward and elections resume from then. Elizabeth Kress is elected in 2020 and following the Fourth Corporate War transforms the US into the effective dictatorship governing until 2053 when she creates the NUSA and is succeeded by David Whindam.
>>98870993Cyberpsychosis in 2077 isn't really a mental illness; it's portrayed as people going postal, and because they have cyberware cyberpsychosis was created to explain it. Nearly none of them actually go cyberpsycho from cyberware usage, it's just a reaction to living in a shitty world.
>>98871496I think it's best to think of cyberpsychosis as a problem of the tail wagging the dog medically in setting: Scientists and doctors ask themselves what makes a bulletproof man more likely to fight police and kill a bunch of people when he has a nervous break? The answer is maybe nothing, he's just going to last a bunch longer and take out a whole bunch more before he can be stopped because he doesn't mind a lead shower. On the other hand he is that much more estranged from his fellow man by his altered capacities, and that's assuming his ware is working perfectly and he's suffering no psychological or physical side effects (bad installs and incompatibilities compound stress and suffering). They call it then when he crashes out 'Cyberpsychosis', because when a normal guy crashes out he throws himself in front of the NCART and he's not even enough metal for it to slow it down.We can take Weak as an example from Edgerunners II. His cyberarm wasn't whispering to him about how much he missed his jazz singer girlfriend from over a decade ago; it was a critical lingering regret of his, so when he's sleeping like shit and his brain chemistry is whacked and he's got a stressful job he starts seeing her in his peripheral vision and hearing her in his tinnitus. When he's finally slid too far down the rabbit hole and that regret is the only thing on his mind he doesn't care about who or what is attacking him or in his way, he has EXTREMELY effective means to resolve these interruptions via his hardware. MaxTac (and TT) don't care whether it's PTSD, a nervous break, suicide by cop or any other (or combinations of a) number of motivations, the end result is a dangerous and irrational living weapon that will not surrender or stop until he is made to.It's best to consider it an epidemic syndrome where cyberware gives desperate and broken people unreasonable amounts of destructive power that can affect horrifying tragedy in a short period of time.
>>98871623Other ware and other stress can lead to much more subtle breaks that may not even always be identified as cyber-psychosis. While Adam Smasher is a laugh of a psychopath being turned into a metal psychopath and hired on as 'CHIEF PSYCHOPATH' by a sociopathic corporation, but a number of narcissistic and dangerous people in corporations are probably not substantially different from Cyberpsychos except in their ability to hide and cope with their dysfunctions and exist in a position where their distortions and malformations are actually advantageous to their department and superiors. Characters with nonviolent breaks are still often termed cyberpsychos because these breaks tend to become violent as they are interrupted or because authorities attempting to take control will invariably do so by force that is then reciprocated. This is also probably how gangs like Malestrom can continue to function with a population of gangsters that are all borderline or high-functioning cyberpsychos: their irrationality is indulged and encouraged by their peers in a (sickly) supportive fashion and resolving their conflicts with violence is accepted among them.I feel like saying "Cyberpsychosis is a spectrum" is kind of a punchline, but it's not far from the truth.
>>98870993Cyberpsychosis is kind of all over the place because it started off as a game mechanic that the tabletop rules writers came up with to stop players from becoming too powerful. Since if you could just endlessly just slot in more and more cyberware there'd be no challenge and it'd become a complete clusterfuck for a DM to manage.And to this day cyberpsychosis' portrayal kinda "suffers" from it because it's intentionally left a bit vague for fan expression and the setting has intentionally leaned into the ambiguety/vagueness of what cyberpsychosis is and how it really works.But how Mike Pondsmith has described it is basically you slowly losing your empathy and humanity through cybernetic usage. You become more distant and detached from other people. And cybernetics make it worse because it is kinda hard to feel like a human and easy to lose perspective when you have bullet proof skin and sharpened blades coming out of your arms.Many people in the fanbase, myself included, think that cyberpsychosis doesn't really "exist".Like it clearly happens, but the reason for it isn't necessarily the cybernetics but the dystopian living conditions that exist in Cyberpunk, and then the life styles people have to live because of it.Like think about what kind of people we most often see go cyberpsycho? It's mercenaries, solos, netrunners, etc.And these people have 1 major thing in common, stressful life. Like fighting for you life every day, potentially seeing your friends die in your arms, persistent drug use, high stress, violence and constant injuries and poor sleeping habits due to all of this. Which also feeds into using chrome to compensate.Basically to condense, people think that cyberpsychosis isn't "real" because in reality it's just regular psychosis, but instead of happening to a normal person, it happens to a 2.5 meter tall cyborg monster that can bench press a car.Aka a dude going batshit and snapping, because "all it takes is one bad day."
>>98871679>Many people in the fanbase, myself included, think that cyberpsychosis doesn't really "exist".I contribute to how the cybernetics are installed, how your raised and in general your exposure to the fucked up shit going around you.Plus getting all that chrome might give you a god complex as well.Onto something else. I've found out that there is a Solo Mode for Red and I have the Edgerunners starter box and since I can't find anyone who wants to play I thought I would use the Single Player Mode for it.Anyone tried it? Any suggestions?
>"I wouldnt go cyberpsycho, i'm just built different"-every cyberpsycho evernow that I think about it, we don't ever really see a corpo cyberpsycho? could lend credence to the idea that it's just regular psychosisas another thing, you could argue that adam smasher doesnt go cyberpsycho either due to:>being a psychopath to begin with and lacking empathyor>he's so good at his job that everything is beneath him and thus doesn't stress him out
>>98871405Movement in Red is quite generous and Handguns have shit range anyway. If you're in a position where you have to chose between a pistol and martial arts, martial arts is the superior option unless you dumped Body, which few people do.
>>98871718Adam Smasher is already cyberpsycho; he's just controllable enough in his psychosis for Arasaka to use him as an attack dog. Cyberpsychosis doesn't necessarily result in "complete" insanity and often registers as something more specific/less totalizing, like specific delusions or obsessions.>>98871756NTA (new to the reply chain, in fact). The original topic at hand is not handguns themselves but carbines using pistol damage at rifle ranges. I think your point stands for the RAW game (although I'll note vehicle chases as a major exception), but the homebrew in question is not about RAW handguns.
>>98871718>now that I think about it, we don't ever really see a corpo cyberpsycho?Some of the ones we get for Regina are exactly that. The Militech anime lady at least. The Saka ninjas who attack us during the car chase with Takemura seem like cyberpsychos. The assassin who tries to take out Mayor Rhine was pimped out by corpo cash. Maelstrom is also a bunch of cyberpsychos, as well as numerous other gangs.
>>98871496>because they have cyberware cyberpsychosis was created to explain it.No, it's still caused by cyberwear, you literally meet the woman from the old teaser trailer and talk about how her arm blades overstimulate a dangerous part of the human brain.
>>98871679>the setting has intentionally leaned into the ambiguety/vagueness of what cyberpsychosis is and how it really works.Because in the setting itself they don't know that Humanity is a stat. That's why there's no definable threshold from their perspective. The actual reason people debate the "oh is it really the implants" part is, the troons flipped out at the idea that body modification makes you less human. If an NPC is offering an opinion on cyberpsychosis in the actual lore, here's a tip. Don't give a shit what they say.
>>98871718>every cyberpsycho everAnd every once in a while, you get one that's actually right.
>>98871756A full half (actually a few percentage over) of body-shot criticals prevent a martial artist from moving more than 4-6 MOVE (either by actually stopping them or bleeding them 5 HP a round) if they are maximum MOVE, as well as the Called Shots to the Legs. If that occurs, a Martial Artist will be unable to catch any enemy with greater than 3 move unless they are already both within 12 m/yds and lower on the initiative, unless they play sharks and minnows for each and every goon. Any foe with 6 or greater move will be able to fire on them as they kite them, geometry and environment willing.A Martial Artist who invests in nothing else is similarly countered by the following in ascending order of patheticness unless they utilize a laundry list of supplemental ware:- An AV- Morro Bay- A Car- A Two Story Building- A BicycleIf a martial artist isn't carrying a pistol for 100 eddies he's a fucking idiot and will die like one.
>>98871877I will give a shit about what the NPCs say because it is more interesting than an arbitrarily set, but necessary, game mechanic.
>>98871935Gentlemen, I give you a troon or troon sympathizer who's mad at the idea that body modification makes you less human. When 2077 released, and with RED, you people popped up like weeds, "oh so do tattoos make you less human?" was a popular one for them. Textbook reductio ad absurdum. You will only come out of this looking sulky and stupid, the best thing you can do now is not respond at all. I like making you people look bad, the worst thing you can do now is not give me a chance to do it again. So do the smart thing, and shut up.
blackhandbros....
>>98871979Nobody was talking about pancakes jesus fucking christ.
>>98871718>>being a psychopath to begin with and lacking empathythat's literally what is written in the fucking books, you trog. he does not have an empathy score and never has.
>>98871986Welcome to PortTV, these are today's incidents: Today at Moler's Gunrange, located in the University District, disagreement turned to dismemberment as attending members argued over allegations brought up against worldwide celebrity solo, Morgan Blackhand, leading to the death of 3 people, and injury of 7. Following allegations that Mr Blackhand pursued a relationship with a minor, the public debate has been raging about whether Mr Blackhand represents a positive and accurate role model for aspiring solos, or whether he should be considered just another scuzzy gunslinger. This debate turned violent when at Moler's Gunrange an argument arose about whether to feature a polystyrene model of Mr Blackhand was in good taste. Moler's Gunrange is well-known for having famous solo paraphernalia collected over the years. Mr Moler himself denied an interview, his family stating "We're praying for his swifty recovery.", and subsequently harassing the PortTV interviewers to leave the building. To which this journalist can only say: "What are you hiding, Mr Moler?"In other news twelve endangered tigers were lost today when-
>>98871979
>>98871979You're from /vg/
>>98872007yeah i'm paraphrasing dummy
>>98871679i agree with you that cyberpsychosis more or less are a "normal" psychotic break.but i did read another perspective which lends some creedence to the cyber in cyberpsycho, which is that the human brain isnt built to handle that kind of stress a random assortment of cyberware puts on it.like the reflexive speed to dodge/deflect bullets, massive amounts of raw data loading or something else that constantly spikes and crashes you brain chemistry.all of which is caused by cyberware, on top of all the other bullshit that comes with the life of a runner.
>>98866857The magnets being able to pull in the gun in that first scene was perfectly within the realm of believability for the setting to me, but the scraplobster at the end was pure Triggerslop I agree. I still give it a pass because Kyoko's moment of glory made up for it
>>98871907>If a martial artist isn't carrying a pistol for 100 eddies he's a fucking idiot and will die like one.The only reason to grab a pistol as a martial artist is gun fu, but besides that you're much better served just getting a rifle for enemies out of punching range. My point isn't that Martial Arts can't be countered but that Martial Arts niche has significant overlap with Handguns and largely fulfills it's role much better.
>>98870499I'd be careful with that, that's probably way too much heat. search and rescue probably would be a better option. say for example where they know it's in the sewers, and they don't know where she is precisely but they have a general idea. it'd at least help by making it not entirely about pure violence, but a search. as for more ideas, a funny one would be pulling up to gunfight at a stuffer shack, (using the shadowrun name, but it's more meant to be a convenience store fight generally) and investigating what started the gunfight and the events involved. mostly I want to put emphasis that not all police work is action and gunfights, it's also investigation.
>>98872817That's fair and it makes sense too.
Gamewise cyberpyschosis is just limiting your kewl shit, but thematically it makes sense as well: it's a very thinly fictionalization of drug use, this game being an 80s child.
>>98871979*farts*
>>98872886it's semi reasonable. I can understand if you're going 1-2 things with the guns with some of the internal motors to get it closer. it's understandable with smart guns, but not with say, a unity or liberty pistol. >>98873061to further expand on the stuffer shack explanation, stuffer shack is used in shadowrun typically as the "party meetup mission" so to speak, in the module food fight. this gives you a perfect excuse to throw old character sheets in as a group of edgerunners whom unintentionally were all at the same location into the mix, with your preferred group of dumbass gangers whom decided to rob/extort the store. use this as a basis for potentially how the fight went down, and leave some clues to how the fight went down. I'd recommend making a pattern of events, and a 2nd model of the map with all the clues and a timeline of the events, with a cctv without audio that cuts out half way through.
>>98870669slightly off, James Richard Allen was the last president. Triple H was vice president, and became president after James got killed in cali back in 96`. it's rumored Hunt killed Allen, but no one can prove it, and hunt was killed in 03 in florida by being set on fire by rioters.
>>98873973sorry, last Elected president.
>>98870884We're not talking about a dungeon crawl game, my dude, this is Cyberpunk, no D&D. You're just not going to be able to have all your best gear at all times, and even tying to do that can get your good toys flat out taken from you by the cops.
>>98871986What does any of this mean?
>>98874471>We're not talking about a dungeon crawl game, my dude, this is Cyberpunk, no D&D.But it's structured very much like a DnD game even if the mechanics can be different. Replace "quest" with "gig" and "dungeon" with whatever place the fixer/client sends you. Regardless Handguns are still ass weapons and can be confiscated just as easily a rocket launcher if the GM chooses.
>>98874940No. No it is not. Read the fucking book.
>>98874941I played and run multiple games and it always boils down to being very DnD like. Red's main gameplay loop revolves around getting quests, and solving them through combat or roleplay and then using the money/IP earned to upgrade your character. Red also shares alot of DnD's negative traits like combat being tedious and there being alot of unecessary crunch/friction and bad rules being grandfathered.
Iwish drones were more fleshed out in 2020.
>>98875051So you've just never read the "Running Cyberpunk" chapter through huh? You're certainly not the first.
>>98875182That section is mostly just a bunch of loose GM advice on things like setting, followed more practical advice like planning session and balancing encounters. Pretty standard stuff and nothing that sets Red apart from other similar RPGs. Like the whole "Beat Chart" section is pretty much telling you to write up a series of scenes as dot points giving you a rough outline of the session, which is good advice for a newbie GM, but nothing groundbreaking or unique.
>>98875246Okay, maybe you've never read a Dungeon Master's Guide and couldn't tell the difference even if you did stop and read it. You wouldn't be trailblazing in that direction either.
>>98873940>I can understand if you're going 1-2 things with the guns with some of the internal motors to get it closerCapri was overclocking the electromagnet stabilizers in Talia's limbs, not hacking the smartgun. Being able to yoink an abandoned gun a few feet away on the ground using that trick makes prefect sense to me, assembling a scrapkaiju doesn't. But again I'll allow it because the climax was fun
>>98875282Okay, you still haven't made any valid arguments as to why Red's gameplay loop is unique and how it differentiates itself from similar games like DnD.
>>98874940This is comically retarded.
>>98875347If you GM is letting you go anywhere you want with whatever gear you want, then he's shit. There is no rule or "gameplay loop" that can prevent a retarded GM from doing something stupid.
>>98875558GMs having the ability to restrict gear players take into a location isn't something unique to cyberpunk.
>>98871718>i'm just built differentI am actually
>>98875302Am I retarded can't you turn any piece of iron into magnet by just sending some electricity through it? Why is it so unbelievable that capri was creating bigger and bigger magnets?
>>98876242That's what I assumed, that she turned engines and electronics in those cars into electromagnets on their own.
>Vidya got akimbo before ttRPG
>>98876889I would point out that technically nothing stops you from dual wielding right now in RED; though I would be omitting that the only respect in which it is better than just having one gun is ammo capacity.
Are there any rules for bioware/gene mods in Cyberpunk Red?Also what's the status on the 2077 tabletop?
>>98876915Aaand two ammo types if you're really into exotic guns
>>98864385>How did you like the new season?Remove Talia and have an actually good show.
>See new cyberpunk discourse>Someone brings up adam>Someone else chimes in how he dated a 16 year old Michiko Not my hekkin mass murdering cyberpsycho!At the risk of sounding dangerously close to a loli defender it is just a pairing of fictional characters. But also his entire character is being just awful, I don't understand how or why are people shocked when the psychopathic killing machine does morally questionable things in his romantic life too
Another series proves that Adam Smashes is a hero NC needs and deservers.
>>98876992I just don't care what a fictional character does or what happens to fictional characters, it's fiction, not real.People really need to stop treating fictional characters like they are real.
>dies because he's a non-levelscaled entity in a bad game.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmanJqb3DRY
>>98876992It's okay when girls do it.
>>98875558example scenario: >scenario: girlfriend/VIP has cyberpsycho ex/assassin/serial killer after them, and needs help getting moved to safer location. >current location: Tech Noir club>complications: club security will obviously respond to any obvious violent force. security is armed. armament options:1. fists and melee weapons. works, but the club is crowded, and throngs of people likely in the way.2. sawed off shotguns. likely to cause casualties with buckshot, slugs while effective are unlikely to have enough capacity to keep going, 5 shots at most in the platforms 2. pistolrelatively concealable, can be somewhat accurate, and can have equivalent or greater stopping power then smg's, while able to quietly get them in.
>>98877263But what if I want to be in Roman's shoes?
now I know this isn't /v/ but I can I discuss the vidya's endings? more specifically the theming, lore basis surrounding them, relation to the tabletop and universe as a whole etc as they're all "bad" in their own way, but some offer a glimmer of hope in an otherwise grim worldmight as well also ask as it's relevant, is soulkiller just a copy of a person or their actual conciousness digitized and trapped in virtual hell?
>>98877788It's just a copy, the real person dies. And it doesn't even seem like a "real" person anyways, when you talk to Jackie it doesn't feel right.
>>98877836I might remember wrong but jackie in the devil ending is supposed to be a shittier construct because it was made from a corpse that had been dead for some time already
>>98877788>Soulkiller>kills soulsIdk anon, maybe try not being a dumbass?
>>98877788The game and anime are going to inform almost anyone interested in the tabletop in 2026. It's obviously relevant if the themes of either one clash with what gameplay tends to be able to create.
>>98877860This fucking Redditor again
>>98877836such is the price for "immortality", you're just a shadow of the original with no souland should a construct of someone who's been soulkiller'd really be judged on the person they were? yes they'll have a similar enough personality and memories, but the construct itself has done no wrong (yet, until say, you do the devil ending)
>>98877860I think you misunderstood. What they're trying to say with that is soulkiller copies are always going to be incomplete. The tech doesn't and can't do what they want it to. If they tried to carry the same person forward into one body after another they would degrade each step until they were unrecognizable. The current anime has as a possible solution merging dozens of soulkiller copies into a single gestalt. That ends up without any of the random missing bits, but it's obviously a new person with an alien schizo kind of personality and can't give the immortality that people want out of the tech.
>>98877033CapriD mid diffs Smasher
>>98877890What are you talking about schizo
I've been reading up the rules for Red and I've been liking it.My only issue is how bland and dumb down the weapon selection is.Worse then D&D.
>>98877860Engrams are copies of people but not the people themselves, whether or not you regard a sufficiently detailed copy as the same as the thing itself is entirely ambiguous/personal and left so deliberately. Also, Soulkiller is heavily based on see: a ripoff of Neuromancer (the AI specifically, not the book at large). In the book we see the MC get copied and he subjectively thinks of himself as the same, and we also see a hacker who got copied but seems very much to know/think of himself as a digital ghost type thing. The later books also have characters who get digitized and regard themselves as having various relations to what they were when they were before.
>>98877788>is soulkiller just a copy of a personIt's this. Just a digitized copy, and the copies aren't 100% accurate either. Like 2077, even Pondsmith says that Johnny's engram is remembering things wrong because the tech is not perfect, probably never will be.The tech was shelved by Arasaka for a reason.
>>98877836This point was omitted from Season 2 of the anime.
>>98877959not just that, alt also says that the events arent accurate and iirc what "johnny believes", i.e the engram is denying that johnny was just a gassed up rockerboy who died like a bitch to adam smasher at the top of arasaka tower while morgan blackhand etc actually did the heavy lifting, so it rewrites what it believes into being a more "heroic" end for johnny despite it not being true>The tech was shelved by Arasaka for a reasonsaburo?
>>98877956I know, I'm just saying that Jackie is a considerably shittier construct than say, Johnny. The part about it being because one is made from a (barely) living person and one from a day old corpse is seemingly just my headcanon.>>98877977True, but Avida and Weak don't know better. The context that it would be a fate worse than death for Talia makes it more tragic imo
>>98877953DLCs help.But I appreciated simple choice of a weapon when I started playing, RED was my first RPG.
>>98877983>saburo?Is it really going to be Saburo or just an advanced predictive text program puppeteering a human body?
>>98878018I don't think anybody here thinks it's an actual soul transferral, he was just pointing out that it wasn't completely shelved since they use it on Saburo's corpse
>>98878024They also didn't shelve it either, Arasaka was selling it to the public.
>>98876206Never said it was, no one did, but what's good in the game is just NOT about raw numbers, simple as.
>>98876915Dual wielding is basically only about style...unless you go all in with multiple borgware arms and use large guns that each have ROF 2 but have different specialized ammo options so there's actually a reason to use two. That can be worth doing. Otherwise yeah it's just a bonus mag.
>>98876923Golden Chrome has options for bioware but it's expensive and limited
>>98876992She was 18
>>98864385Good. Not as good as last season, but good. In Boxingpunk 2, party has acquired their first corporate sponsor, Dynalar after heated and less heated negotiations. Currently doing oddjobs while waiting on the next big fight.
>>98877987DLCs helped but they could have different types of weapons in each of the weapon categories having different weapon stats.A Militech AR-68 isn't gonna operate the same as an Arasaka SA-456.
>>98877907Bullshit, he'd kill her host by beating him to the draw.
>>98877788We actually go into Mikoshi in some endings, V just sees Night City and can speak to Jackie if he DOESN'T tell Delamain to take his body to his family, Arasaka got their hands on the body and digitized him. Also, The devil is the canon ending, I'd be willing to bet money on it, because it sets up a sequel. V in a new body with no implants, money or reputation, time away lets the city change, it works perfectly.
>>98877953Keep reading, there's a part that gives examples of different brands of gun that apply to different weapon quality levels. It's not as extensive as 2020 but it's there.
>>98878159The only ending that doesn't set up a sequel is the suicide one.
>>98878171Thinking CDPR would ever do a sequel with Johnny in V's body, cyberware intact, no fresh start, is super optimistic of you. We are not getting a sequel where Jonny rolls up in a level 50 V with endgame implants.
>>98878148*hits u wit haxx0r lighting*
>>98878264Too slow
>>98878167Not really good as its just "rp flavor" with either a chance your gun flubs on a roll of 1 or a plus 1 to hit. The games equipment lacks soul.
Why put brain in machine bad?
>>98878450How "exotic" can FBCs get? Is there something on the level of Jamesons from GITS? I want an NPC to be an rich otherkin who got borg'd out into a Dog body, is there anything like that?
>>98878181>Game starts>Morgan Blackhand blows up your house>Kneels down in front of you laying on the floor with fucked up blurry vision>"I'm Chris Redfield.">Extracts the chip from your brain with a big cyber vacuum cleaner>TT scoops you up and does invasive surgery on you to save your life>Johnny Mnemonic now has to relearn all his skills and abilities and get completely new cyberware in Cyberpunk 2079: Duel of Two Hands (It's Always Blackest Before Knight)>I say, imaginary V, we have just been put in front of a most excellent story hook>Crash to desktopI'm from the future that's why I know these things.
>>98878450muh sole
>>98878487Logically speaking doing so would be possible though it would probably be expensive since most FBC's are mass produced corpo designs. So something like that would need to be a custom job, not sure about the mental strain either since your brain wouldn't be used to the movement.
>>98878450I like to think the eclipse makes the zaku noise when it powers up and the eye turns on.
>>98878159Amusing that you think Johnny wouldn't have to pawn any top-line augs for food money after a few months
>>98878965Why would he? Johnny wouldn't be a half-bad Merc by looking at his 2020 stat-blocks. If he wanted to continue the Merc life, it wouldn't be beyond him, even if he wouldn't be as good as end-game V.
>>98878159>Also, The devil is the canon ending, I'd be willing to bet money on it, because it sets up a sequel. V in a new body with no implants, money or reputation, time away lets the city change, it works perfectly.Edgerunners S2 seems to have done away with that being a possibility; there's frequent talk of how Arasaka has been slipping and there's a conspicuous lack of Adam Smasher to deal with one of the protagonists constantly fucking with them.I'd prefer a new protagonist in any case; there's nowhere for V's story to go in any of the endings.
>>98878145to use a real world example, I would use a mk12 spr for a entirely different role then a ak104, despite the fact they're both assault rifles, with optics, and similar magazine capacities, and both have suppressors attached.
>>98879036Here's the thing about that, when King as his buddy are talking in the Coyote they call it Soulkiller, but not the Relic, the name it was publicly marketed with. That tells me the season still takes place before the game, even if CDPR's "lore master" said in some meaningless social media post that it's 2078.
>>98879309King is a experienced merc, Soulkiller and Arasaka stealing it, has been street lore for 50+ years by 2077; Anyone tapped in by that culture could easily tell the relic and Soulkiller are connected.
>>98879309Soulkiller was a thing back in 20-fucking-20 anon. They're not talking about Arasaka's advertised immortality service, they're talking about the fabled magical-ass-super program that kills you and turns you into a pickle.
>>98879317>>98879316>They're not talking about Arasaka's advertised immortality serviceConsidering they're talking about using it to put Talia in a new body, that is exactly what it is. That's the version of Soulkiller that the Relic is in the first place. Arasaka doesn't use Soulkiller for the Relic in the first place anyway, it's the basis for the system but saying the Relic is Soulkiller is like saying an F1 car is a Model T.
>>98879350I think being confidently wrong and arguing is more annoying than being ignorant. The entire thing is a game of telephone in which a Merc is talking about Kang Taos research into Arasaka's research into Alt Cunningham's work she did in 2013 for ITS; 6-fucking-5 years before Edgerunners II for a corporation that doesn't even exist anymore.
>>98879435If the season takes place after the game, why does King need it explained that Soulkiller can be used to put someone in a new body, considering that was the whole point of the heavily advertised Relic? Why doesn't Talia's extremely rich mother know about it, and already try to get her hands on one to save her daughter? The plot of the second half of the season makes no sense if the Relic was something that's common knowledge in the city, and it would be, the ads were fucking everywhere. The reason I'm confident, is because I'm RIGHT.
>>98879450Relic being used to put people into new bodies was actually a close secret; This is explained in 2077, the relic that's advertised on billboards just allows you to talk to your dead family member's engrams; The experimental one V stole was Seburo's personal relic for the scheme to put himself into his son's body. Hillman explains this after life during wartime.
>>98879487>Unlike RELIC 1.0, the latest version of the biochip prototype is not only designed to store a digitized engram for basic communication, but also an enhanced personality construct capable of independent function and re-implantation into a new, organic host-body. ...god damn it I hate being wrong
>>98878114You say that but give the players a choice between something that constantly plinks off armor and something that doesn't and the choice is obvious. Red is a terribly balanced game and does an awful job giving different options equal weight. The armor system in particular punishes you for going for low damage options without much upside. If the GM has to bend over backwards and engineer scenarios to make something useful, it's not a good option. As I said before, if the player cares about concealment, they'll just go martial arts or get pop up melee. Handguns only really exist on the player side to buff Martial Arts through Gun Fu. They may as well not exist except for being fodder for weak NPCs, which is a problem with Red's gear list in general. Too many trash items that don't serve a good mechanical purpose aside from giving more flavor and variety to NPCs.You're like that sperg on Reddit who goes on those long winded tangents on how to make heavy armor viable instead of just admitting armor was poorly implemented. Red had an incredibly messy and rushed core book that set so many terrible precedents when it came to game design and balance.
>>98879597I'm flattered I left such an impression Anon, but I've never posted my analysis on reddit.
>>98879597My dude, literally all I need to do to show everything you said is wrong, is point out that guarded doors exist.
>>98879597Hey man leave heavy armor lizard alone, mechanics autists are the unsung heroes of any game system.
>>98879630>My dude, literally all I need to do to show everything you said is wrong, is point out that guarded doors exist.And the martial artist walks though those doors no problem whilst the faggot who took a handgun still has to pass a search. Once they get in the area, the Martial Artist can quickly and quietly dispatch any hostiles while the guy with his shitty handgun plinks off their armor and draws everyone's attention.
>>98879597>instead of get a different gun, players will just get cybernetics that cost ten times as much and invest in a skill that costs twice as much to advanceBrilliant argument. Just...brilliant.
>>98879638I wish he would homebrew an armor book or something instead of being a terminal RAWtist. I dunno but I've always figured he was Jame's sockpuppet account or something.
>>98879651>plinks off their armorGuess how I can tell you don't actually play.
>>98879597>Handguns only really exist on the player side to buff Martial Arts through Gun Fu.No Anon, Gun-fu exists to buff pistols because as you said, they deal low damage and often plink off of any SP above 8. The only real difference between melee and handguns is handguns don't ignore half your target's armor rounded up. If Handguns had this quality they'd be better than melee in every-way, and Gun-fu does that, you've got that entirely backwards; All the hybrid martial arts exist to buff the original skill, not stand alone as a martial arts.
>>98879653Unless you dump body you'll probably being out damaging Handguns with like a 4 because of Halving SP. If you don't grab a Linear Frame at CC, the cost is only 2k eddies, which is something you'd typically earn in a couple of jobs.
>>98879685Yes but Gun Fu achieves this by treating your Handgun as an accessory to your Martial Arts. A 20eb piece of shit is suddenly one of the strongest weapons in the game as Gun Fu ignores most properties of your actual weapon and replaces it with Martial Arts damage and practically gives you unlimited ammo capacity. It also doesn't work with ROF guns, so SMGs and VHP and made even more irrelevantThe blanket rule that Melee/Martial Arts halve SP is bad design anyway. Makes Melee combat superior to Ranged without much downside aside from needing to get into melee range, which a high Move character can overcome.
>>98879670Yes my group moved on from this shitty game a year ago.Now I run Cities Without Number, a much better game written by a competent designer and not Maximum Mike's nepotistic circle of retards.
>>98879755And we're so thrilled to have you vomiting all over the thread about it at every opportunity.
>>98879732>Yes but Gun Fu achieves this by treating your Handgun as an accessory to your Martial Arts. A 20eb piece of shit is suddenly one of the strongest weapons in the game.That's largely because martial arts are inherent to your character, and not the gear; you've gotta spend IP which is the most valuable resource a player has, other than humanity maybe. I'd say the Bow martial art is better than Gun-fu, because getting unlimited 6d6 weapon attacks is insane. All guns in Single fire mode basically have unlimited magazines, the game's average combat length is short enough that you'll basically never need to reload a rifle; You'd have to have 25 actions to empty one. Reloading doesn't really exist outside of single shot weapons like RPGs and Grenade launchers, or you're spray and praying with Auto-fire. You can have basically unlimited ammo with standard handguns and SMGs by bring two of em, desu. SMGS still has their niche as the best Autofire weapon (outside of Machine guns), SOF 45 makes that even stronger now that they have Autofire 4 standard. The Very heavy pistol is a gun for PCs who rely on handguns as their primary attack skill, without double dipping into martial arts. I'd make the argument that if you have a concealable VHP through tech upgrade, there's no reason to buy a medium or heavy pistol if you aren't going for gun-fu.
>>98879766Thread dies otherwise.>>98879772Autofire in general has unreliable damage and has the same IP cost as Martial Arts making a SMG less appealing, although the SOF45 upgrades make it better than it used to be. Personally I think getting a concealed VHP is more trouble than it's worth since they're weak weapons in the first place and the player could feasibly get a concealed long arm through invention anyway if they were gonna play a tech. Really I don't understand why VHP aren't concealable in the first place, even the bulkiest handguns IRL could reasonably be hidden underneath a jacket.
>>98879861>Really I don't understand why VHP aren't concealable in the first place, even the bulkiest handguns IRL could reasonably be hidden underneath a jacket.I always assumed Very heavy pistols were huge nearly impossible sci-fi calibers for handguns like 14mm+. This could easily be solved by giving more fluff and crunch behind guns, like characters without BOD 7+ can't even use a Very heavy pistol without torn muscle injury or something.
>>98879669The thing with homebrew is that GMs are reluctant to use something that's not written by the original authors without thoroughly vetting itBesides, coming up with your own rules instead of finding interactions between existing ones are very different and hard things to do
>>98879895The catch-22 is a heavier, bigger pistol can be easier to fire than a lighter, smaller one on account of more room for recoil management and just being a heavier gun. RED expresses the real handcannons mostly as exotics where a BODY requirement or so-on is a drawback from how humongous they are compared to other really large handguns.
>>98879922That's a fair point, it just annoys me that people will bend over backwards writing several essays to prove a bad mechanic is good, rather than addressing the elephant in the room and looking for ways to improve it.
Pistol appreciator who has just started reading Cyberpunk source books here. I've always thought of pistol chads as either close-range, quickdraw specialists with high damage and high accuracy, usually targeting the brain, balls, or gun hand; or as guys that jump through the air dual wielding Deagles. How viable are these play styles?
>>98879994>How viable are these play styles? Let's break it down >dual wieldingNot happening. You can have two guns, but you can fire one at a time.>guys that jump through the air Gun-fu martial art if you wish>high damage and high accuracyWhy would a pistol have more accuracy or damage than a rifle?>close-range, quickdraw specialistsYou're definitely going to be using them in close range. Quickdraw, well, have a high enough initiative and you're basically quickdrawing.
>>98879534>re-implantation into a new, organic host-body.I'm surprised Biotechnica isn't also heavily featured in this Soulkiller debacle all that much, since they definitely have the tech to clone people.Also, isn't cloning illegal or am I misremembering?
>>98879698So what? Literally, so what?
>>98879755Then why are you here? Not that I believe you ever actually played the game, but why are you here at all?
>>98880153Cloning whole people maybe, but in the book cloning arm and attaching it takes 50 eddies and takes like an hour.
>>98879755I don't want to say CybRed is good but>DnD
I sincerely wish for a Cyberpunk community with an attitude that's a middle-ground between the performative ass-kissery of Reddit and the obnoxious contrarianism of /cpg/.
I've only ever ran DND would you guys recommend RED For a first cyberpunk campaign?
>>98879732>a high Move character can overcome.Just need to figure out the right aislop prompt to turn these into proper top down maps...
>>98879317My choom jacked into Synthacorp's user database and found it was a subsidiary of Arasaka corp. Screamed as the runner on the other side pickled his head in 20 seconds. Funniest shit I ever saw.
>>98880220Because this a thread for Cyberpunk themed TTRPGs, not a Red general. It's not mandatory to suck Mike's cock and pretend Red is a masterpiece like it is on Reddit or the Discord.>>98880266>no you can't make a cyberpunk themed RPG with a d20 mechanics. You have to use d10s or dice pools or some other broken bullshit I pulled out of my ass!CWN is basically a better version of Red. It's an attempt at a streamlined, balanced, modular Cyberpunk TTPRG and I'd say it largely succeeds where Red fails. >the book is better written and easier to reference>combat is faster, deadlier and better balanced than red>skill system is lifted from Traveler and far more flexible than Red's bloated skill list>progression is actually rewarding, endgame gear and cyber is actually worthwhile>netrunning isn't a fucking slog and netrunners have options in meat space including quickhacking and drones>simple, easy to follow guidlines for things like balancing encounters, granting XP and mission payoutsIt's honestly embarrassing Red can be mogged this much by a game written by one dude.>>98880335Honestly a map that big would just be tedious to play on regardless of your Move. The combat will go on for hours and your players will fall asleep.
>>98880324I have my problems with Red, but it's an easy enough system to learn so I'd say go with it. Your table will figure out pretty quick if they like it or not.
>>98880588>Honestly a map that big would just be tedious to play on regardless of your Move. The combat will go on for hours and your players will fall asleep.A final solution to both the MOVE-let problem and the playpig problem
>>98880710Do you want your games to be bad?
>>98880588>CWNStop shilling, Kevin, your game is a copy of a copy and Godbound was your last original idea. It's d20 light with key phrases, 10 levels and bloated with bloviation.
>>98880324RED's very good for baby's first RPG.
>>98881451>It's d20 light with key phrases, 10 levels and bloated with bloviation.If you want an example of "bloviation," Red's corebook blows CWN out of the water with the bloated page count. CWN is pretty brisk and to the point in comparison.
>>98881582>more comparisons despite being told to stop shillingGo to your own general.
>>98879638My issue with him is he's not even a good mechanics autist. He's openly admitted he doesn't understand the game's math and had to have friends tell him PA sucks ass 90% of the time vs SW. The janky damage analysis I've seen from him on super-heavy armor uses an anydice script that treats all damage as average, which is hugely problematic with how ablation works. The most recent post I saw from him was nominally a "how to make heavy armor enemies" guide for GMs, but it had a bunch of garbage in it like "you can make their numbers higher with HQ bonuses" (just make their numbers higher directly! You're the GM!) and "mitigate their weaknesses with ILFs and Reinforced Cyberlegs but don't ever let them bullet-dodge." The post was also conspicuously absent of any discussion of the actual contexts these enemies might be fielded in (what types of enemies should be fielded alongside them, what types of campaigns/crews these are appropriate for) or their general spot in the enemy classification hierarchy (Mook, Lieutenant, etc.). He also derives a "base CN" for the C-SWAT backup in Lawman, treating them as if their SP 18/CN 14 can be extrapolated into Metalgear and +18 attacks/Evasion/RT&D/etc., even though it's clear these are only approximations of real mechanics if you try to derive a WILL stat from the Recovery Zone Marshal.My impression is he's got the autistic hyperfixation but lacks the brains/training for real analysis and is too playerbrained for much of his GM-oriented posts to be very useful
>>98881902Or, you know, this is the 4th edition and he's old.
>>98882418>ignorant weeb being ignorantWoah, breaking news.
>>98879895I always love concealability in cyberpunk/Shadowrun.If I remember right in earlier Shadowrun editions hiding a halberd on your body was as easy as hiding a shotgun, which was as easy as some of the heavier pistols.
>>98864385Why don't they just make another system that accomodates to what people like from the anime and mythos of the setting while being able to take place in many different time periods of setting? I think RED its shackled by the fact that its set RIGHT after the corporate war and its mostly post apocalyptic.
>>98882418>don't understand japanese>IP is an english-speaking creation>videogame the anime is based on is made by poles and primarily made in the english language>japanese version of the anime removes the settings lingo and slang because it's not localized>clancy brown is the VA for king in the english version>uhhhhmmmm you just have to watch it in japanese because....WELL YOU JUST HAVE TO OKAY!?
The way I see it armour system was designed intentionally to be able to ignore weapons below certain range and that on its own wouldn't be that bad, but they decided to make the optimal armour choice sturdy enough to invalidate a lot of weapons.Probably to improve the starting PCs' survivability, but I think that was a mistake.
>>98882762>Make game from low to high power scaling>Start characters at middle power scaling???????????????????????
>>98864920Me too, omae. Me too.Here's to hoping someone competent at Pegasus acts with a motivation other than greed. And that, at the very least, the Shadowhelix fixes get done soonTM.>TQ1Halfway through so far. I like King/Weak, cringe at the new David, am so-so with Talia. Roman's pretty cool though, i always enjoy people using retro-tech in a technological arms-race and rat-race world/setting. Also, a character that seeks art and meaning beyond the quantifiable is something i relate a lot to. I'd probably die rather quickly if someone dropped me in Night City because i lack the min-max violent entrepreneur mindset that prevails there. That said, i still have to finish the series.>TQ2Everyone in the group tried playing a new archetype and it went horribly. We botched three jobs because everyone was making catastrophic rookie mistakes and agreed to stick to our guns. Turns out that my love for playing independent violence-machines and asymmetric warfare specialists makes me a less than capable rockerboy, considering i lack the charm, mindset and respective creativity expected of such a character. Roleplay was phenomenal though and several times we nearly pissed ourselves laughing at the dumb shit we and by extension our characters did. Immersion suffered because it turned into a grotesque comedy, but all in all i do not consider those afternoons and evenings as lost time.
>>98864920>>98882936forgot pic
>>98881902I keep forgetting I'm not the only heavy armor autist on the internet; I'll admit some of that shit is kinda dumb.Most of my defenses for armor come down to being an important part of defense in depth and SP values being on breakpoints that are generally easy for players and refs to intuitively understand.With additional play and in-game experimentation with armor my conclusions have only shifted slightly: I think SP values and even the penalties are okay, but high end armor is overcosted and ways to reduce armor penalties other than a tech upgrade should be published. I actually wonder if a blanket rule of "Your Armor Penalty is reduced by 1 if you are equipped with a Linear Frame or have an internal Linear Frame installed" would actually be a complete course correction in and of itself.APCA solve the other half of the problem in that you now have an ultra-high end defensive option if you want to cosplay as an Australian gangster.
>>98882936>>98882944>The recent microsoft announcement included cancelling the Shadowrun CRPG that Obsidian was working onIt's not fair.
>>98871115It was the Fuzion system (a retarded halfway between HERO and Interlok) with setting appropriate plugins.
>>98883244Yeah, to be clear I'm not terribly pessimistic on sub-Luxury heavy armor, although I agree the penalties could be lower. Luxury armor is just insanely overcosted for the value it provides (and for some reason is the main kind he focuses on writing about); I think the game really suffers from not having a 2000eb tier, although RTal's obv moved beyond the rigid Price Category pricing, so it's mainly an issue with older options. The other major pain point at the moment is repair. Jeeves Bag partially covers for sub-Luxury options, but I still think the general rule for armor repair should be the same as vehicles and ACPAs.All that said, I think it's respectable to work towards a Co-Processor, Jeeves Bag, and HAJ/Flak (or Light/Hybrid Metalgear if SOF is allowed), especially if you can get your Shoulder Arms and Evasion up to skill base 16+ while doing so.>ways to reduce armor penalties other than a tech upgrade>[e.g. Linear Frame for -1]I agree this would be good, yeah. Solves most of my issues aside from repair, makes sense with how LFs work for ACPAs, FBCs, heavy weapons, etc. Does further centralize the game around ILFs, but I'm already a proponent of making Sigma cost 2000eb. This does get into another issue I have with his posts, which is that he frequently mentions using TUps to reduce the penalty, which is both GM-dependent (esp. at a 2pt reduction, which he'll often mention) and prohibitively expensive for Luxury options even if allowed. At the point you're talking about TUp'd Heavy Metalgear or Dragoon Plating you might as well just start looking into ACPAs instead.
>>98881621This is the Cyberpunk general tho. Not for a specific game line but the genre itself and any Cyberpunk themed TTRPGs. CWN fits within that criteria.
>>98882691I watch the japanese version because FUCK listening to westfoid VAs
>>98884021I think it's funny in the Jap dub they refer to "Edgerunners" as "Cyberpunks." This should be canon in english too.
https://csc-rpg.neocities.org/>ps. You're welcome choom.
>>98877788>CheckedAhh yes and yes I beleive. >Is it just a copyYes, it is obviously copied even if the process is destructive.>Their actual conciousnessYeah it's that too. Fidelity should be in the high 90's when tested shortly after copy. Variations can be chalked up to copy and or hardware issues.>but you really are asking is it their soulwhen the answer is no>but if you ask the same thing before the copythe answer is still no>>98877836The problem is that Jackie was a bad copy (copied from a corpse) and that Johnny was intentionally corrupted (taught wrong on purpose, presumably because arasaka found it funny). If you go into original engrams (like Alt, or even Capri if you ignore the fact that she's like 12 people stiched together) they act a lot more human like, to the point where its hard not to ascribe personhood to them. This is hidden in the game a little because the Alt you see in 2077 honestly has some balls to call Johnny an unreliable narrator considering her current status. >>98877879This but it is ironic. No one in Cyberpunk believes in souls.
>>98884021lolproof that weebs have no standards beyond "thing:japan :DDDD"imagine pretending the screeching rodents japs call female VAs sound good just for some weeaboo izzat
I knew "win initiative and throw a grenade while the enemy gangers are close together and friendly fire isn't a risk" was good on paper, but I got to do it for the first time today and man is it fun to roll a Critical Injury on the damage for one of those.
A small part of me is kinda glad we live in an age where some of us that have no talent for illustration have access to AI now. I'm writing a campaign that kicks off with a kidnapping and ends with a body-horror type situation. One of the things I'm gonna have my players recover is CCTV footage outside the victim's workplace and I think it's gonna go over well with the players.
>>98884486Tell me more about your mission
>>98884546I'm still piecing it together as I go along, but the main plot is about a secret facility underneath a section of Watson that a PMC group contracted by an unknown company is trying to find. The facility was designed to overwrite a person's memories using another person's memories to mentally clone that person, similar to a Possessor situation, but the PMC's don't know what it's for yet. Because of the size of the facility, the PMCs are instigating gang wars, poisoning the water supply, and buying out/evicting any and all tenants from the owners that'll sell in order to make the zone uninhabitable and vacated.What nobody knows yet is that a rogue AI that came from like, a Tamogachi or something, has already gotten to it first and is kidnapping women that look like its previous owner before she died. It's been installing devices around the city in places where its owner had frequented to find and scan people that knew her to cobble together fragments of her personality, with the side effect being that nobody near them are able to sleep. It's also been using its failed subjects/homunculi as puppets to do the kidnapping.
>>98883911'X' Without Number isn't 'cyberpunk', it's D20 wrapped in fondant. If CWN is cyberpunk, Godbound is cyberpunk.Fuck you, shill somewhere else.
>>98884049There's a lot of fun moments with language in the JP version, like how everyone casually refers to Roman as a brat (gaki) and Talia only stops after she sees the video he made of her.>>98884272>simping for withered, walled 50 year old californoid dyehairs who sound like chainsmokers giving a blumpkin to a gravel golemWhat a heckin wholesome ally you are!Funnily enough, it's actually the opposite. There's nothing I love more than nonsensical cyberpunk slang, so to have to give it up because I don't want to listen to someone do their best drowning cat getting fucked in the ass impression for 10 episodes is a testament to just how bad ENfoid dubjobs are.
>>98884775It's a d20 based game specifically designed for Cyberpunk themed campaigns. What more do you want?
Hey guys, I'm going on a snack run, you want anything?
>>9888490412 Mister Whiteys and a Real Water.
>>98884049I love shit like that. In Shadowrun first edition it was stated outright there's an in universe trideo show called "Shadowrun" about "Shadowrunners" doing crazy jobs. The few times it comes up it's usually in universe people shit talking how dumb the show is, but it has pervaded the in setting pop culture so much that everyone uses terminology from the show to describe Shadowruns and Shadowrunners.
>>98882936>the Shadowhelix fixes get done soonTM.hasn't it been down for months now, my Shadowhelix bookmark just redirects me to Pegasus nowadays.Though there's https://ex.shadowrun.fr/hauptseite.html , which, I think, has all the stuff from Shadowhelix>>98882944sovl
Do you think there's ever gonna be a next edition after RED? When would you guess, and do you think it would be better or shittier
>>98884904Scopdog and a pack of nacho cheese flavored kibble.
>>98884904Do they have cola and potato fries?
>>98884904Lemme get a six-pack of Smash, a SCOP burger and some rubbers. I'm bringing a joytoy over tonight.
>>98864385>Feel free to discuss Shadowrun and other cyberpunk games here as well.What do you guys think of SR Anarchy 2.0?
>>98884925>>98884904Make that two, I'm on a diet.
>>98885812I'm gonna buy a copy when it comes out, 2 of my 3 groups would definitely be down to try it, and the third is a strong possibility as well if the group doesn't die. I haven't had a chance to run it yet but the rules at least look like exactly what I wanted anarchy 1 to be (and what they utterly failed at making); a more narrative focused system that still actually has rules.Anarchy 1e was basically a resolution mechanic and a poorly explained toolkit to build powers/gear, and that was it. Ran some sessions of it, got very disappointed very fast.It is kind of annoying it's so tied to the current SR setting, but Im having a lot of fun just ignoring all the lore for the my vtm game and doing whatever strikes my fancy, so I'll probably do the same for SR.
>>98884904Bathwater Seltzer and an extra large bag of dehydrated jellyfish flavourchews, I'll pay you next payday, man.>>98885462Woah, rich kid, huh? Open you wallet.
I kinda want to import the Scaldra from Warframe into Cyberpunk Red as a European PMC that deals with chemical weapons.
>>98887923>Make best Warframe setting>Contaminate it with broader Warframe bullshit like frog tongue lady, faith, secret double uno reverse, and i can be ur angle or ur devilDo it. Scaldra deserves better.
>>98888091Including her as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBmkJbK3NGwgreat watch
>>98885182>https://ex.shadowrun.fr/hauptseite.htmlSeems to have some formatting issues.
>>98884903A good game.
>>98882917All the low options are the exact same as the high options; A Poor quality rifle still does 5d6 damage, even if it has the chance to jam 10% of the time. Cheaper weapons don't deal less damage.
>>98883244Linear frames should ignore all the movement pentiles for Medium and heavy armor jack, and halve flak and above. The penalty on armor jacks shouldn't really be that high to begin with, SP 12-14 isn't high enough for a -2 to all attacks, driving, dex rolls, and movement. It's not like armor protects you from getting hit with a crit and becoming cripple.It would also give them utility outside of Martial arts and carrying around heavy weapons.
Speaking of, has anyone ever tried out the fan made Shadowrun X?
>>98885812My group never moved on from SR3.
>>98888617I looked it up after seeing people mention it, had to go to work so I sent the files to my players who then reviewed it.Of the four, three read it and each of them summed it up as>Player 1: If I wanted to play D&D with guns, I'd do so>Player 2: some mechanics are cool, but they're really afraid of minmaxing which is always a sign of bad design>Player 3: The "if you bother to RP your character you gain more edge" rule is a sign this game was made for people who should be playing a board game and not a RPG.I read it later, and I mostly agree with them, so I never ran it.
>>98884635"Babies must sleep. Babies must rest. Wise is the one who does not waken them..."
>>98888501Well stop playing Red and move on to CWN then...>>98888567The logic is sound, but personally I think too much of the game already revolves around the frame. It just entrenches it as an item every player has to get. Red's Armor system is broken and needs to be reworked in general.
>>98864385Hey chooms, tweaked the Akimbo guide a little. Chekit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W49hjdwnSpklZmXSb6_Bd7SUuc4csEdB/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104233936312049857807&rtpof=true&sd=true
>>98889080Eh? I don't know, If we had some sort power suits to give soldiers super-strength and carry Light weapons around, it would naturally change infantry warfare quite a bit, the linear frame's dominance seems like something that comes inherently with the setting. The man who can lift 1.2k pounds is gonna dominate the battle field if he could carry around a mounted MG with little issue.
>>98889202more like if he can coverage max soft armor without becoming a heat casualty
>>98889202True, but from a game design perspective the Linear Frame becomes a mandatory Eddies/Humanity tax because the game gates most strong combat options behind it. I don't think it'd be such an issue if the game wasn't so anal about making it the only way to way to break the 10 Body cap. Also the way the current system is set up, it incentivizes min maxing your stats and getting a frame on character creation, rather than the frame being an upgrade for a player who wants to play a front line fighter.The armor system is just poorly designed in the first place. The penalties make no sense, are these suits made of lead or something? Why can't they just be gated behind eddies+availability? It's not like someone is going to buy Metal Gear at character creation. High end gear SHOULD make the player feel powerful and be a reward for sticking with the campaign, not a liability that's undermined by the basic starting gear.
>>98876362They were definitely still functional from what we saw, so definitely possible. She put the heavy automatics to some good use. Probably should have eaten some of those rocket launchers, though.I'm still wondering about the airstrike. Capri has damn good range, able to knock out large parts of the city's power. She should be well within range to redirect incoming ship-to-surface missiles.Also I was disappointed that Netwatch didn't have any part to play in the series, since they are Night City's anti-AI bulwark. I do understand why they preferred to focus on the corporations, but I was still disappointed.
>>98877033I thought it was amusing that the biggest hit Johnny and V seem to have done to Arasaka was killing Smasher. Now suddenly they are getting their shit routinely pushed in by low level mercs and street thugs with mollies. They need their big daddy borg enforcer back.
>>98889409They already are gated behind eddies and availability. I think a lot of people fetishize Sigma Frames builds in character gen because they're not really doing the math seriously. An 8 Body character that installs GMBL hits 10 for less than half of his starting cash. Honestly they were fine at 8 outside of bulking up for heavy weapons and a marginal increase in survivability. You get more EHP from moving from Light Armorjack to Heavy Armorjack than you do from installing a Sigma frame.The protective ability of heavier armor is actually very good, it's just the penalties can cause characters to struggle if they didn't plan for them. Characters with a good evasion base simply need 500eb Coprocessor to enjoy most of the protective advantages of their skills with added staying power. Only once we reach -3 and -4 penalties do things like the MOVE loss start to become the chief concern; which for Metalgear is frankly the least they can do to keep it from getting out of control. While it's unlikely a character is going to survive 18 hits; the EHP total for it is 171 points of damage and by default it is ignoring any non-critical hit from weapons under 4d6 until you scratch the paint.If anything a -1 to the encumbrance is throwing a bone specifically to non-borg characters; Sure you still need to buy the external frame, but the neural link and plugs may be on a character already for their role in another task; or even Solos may already have them for speedware and smartlinks. I don't think it centralizes frames any more than the existence of firearms necessitates characters also buying guns.
>>98889091>4chan homebrewyawn
>>98889678NTA.>I think a lot of people fetishize Sigma Frames builds in character gen because they're not really doing the math seriously. An 8 Body character that installs GMBL hits 10 for less than half of his starting cash. Honestly they were fine at 8 outside of bulking up for heavy weapons and a marginal increase in survivability.Heavy weapons are in fact a pretty big benefit, as are 4d6 MA attacks. And kitting out at char-gen lets you dump BODY to 4 at no penalty, freeing up points elsewhere, with enough cash left over for essentials.>EHPHow are you calculating EHP? It's not a very clean metric in CP:R because of how SP works. >I don't think it centralizes frames any more than the existence of firearms necessitates characters also buying guns.The game is centralized around guns, yes. Melee/MA builds do well in the modal case because street gangs are usually going to kit out with short-range handguns (and many GMs don't put a lot of thought into how combat should be set up), but they should still have some kind of ranged option on hand to avoid getting hosed by extenuating circumstances.
>>98889814EHP in this case is very literal "how much maximal damage will it keep from applying to your HP when armor is breached at all". It's not a perfect metric, as to get the full EHP you would need to be taking damage through armor that never exceeds fatal damage; and realistically you won't be taking 1 or 2 damage all the time (and the odds of taking more damage go up with SP being reduced). It's still a helpful metric in that the real protection provided by armor comes from the higher SP values anyways, as you'll be ducking a fight or dying before you grind to nothing unless you're eating a hilarious amount of subflechette. Its worth noting in those cases the higher EHP still holds because the subflechette for example would be ablating you naked earlier on lighter armor.4d6 MA is commonly cited as a central benefit and, while powerful, it's extremely high risk for that reward; a Ref that wants to quite literally knock you down a needs to get lucky once with a leg-shot or crit and suddenly the MABorg is going to be testing their backup plan (they better have one). Similarly most heavy weapons don't ask for more than 10 BODY, so you don't strictly need it.
Can I have your thoughts on Cy_borg compared to other games in the genre?
>>98890093Even DnD 5e cyberpunk would be preferable to suffering through börkbörgslöp
