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>>98879884

They're being in character and pretending to be a religious zealot is fun.

>>98879884
>an almost religious need
because they often are religious. tradcath american larpers have this extremely weird obsession with 40k, despite 40k in some aspects being arguably outright anti-Christian. the Last Church story literally has emps leh epically own the last christian in the galaxy with facts and logic and then kill him and destroy his church

>>98879884
>>98879913
Is it me or is this guy trying to hard?

>>98879916
Trying to hard, but all troons tourists are tryhards. Well they're tryhards till they stop trying and just the fat man in the dress whining his tummyache and anal leakage is "period cramps."

>>98879884
They want to mindlessly pwn the other political side for believing the Imperium 100% pure evil

>>98879951
>>98879916
I do find it funny that you accuse myself (OP) and another anon of samefaggotry and "trying too hard" then write this. You should have at least attempted to correct your writing of the word "too" if you didn't want your samefaggotry to be obvious.
But then, why don't you tell me what makes the Imperium justified in your eyes? I'm genuinely curious. You must believe it is to react like this. And what does "justified" mean to you in this context? Justified as in the Imperium literally did nothing wrong, or justified as in it's a shitty regime but it's also the only one humanity's got and therefore it's survival is always justified regardless?

>>98879884
idk, I'm an imperiumfag and think the imperium is stupid and cringe just as the entire lore but I still play them because they are human and the alternatives are also stupid and cringe. I could play space elves too if their helmets didnt look like shit.

I believe I'm what's called a "secondary" as I do not partake of the Warfaggotry and know it from memes and video games
At this point I feel like there are more people complaining about Imperium-fags than there are actual Imperium-fags (people who think they're a viable model for society or life etc)

>>98879962
Yep, tilted and anally leaking into their maxi pad. Though I wouldn't doubt they shove a tampon in too. (Makes them feel like a woman now.)

But I'm bored and will humor you a little bit. I'm not saying the Imperium is perfect, however name a group that would take care of them better? I bet you're a commie blueberry lover and think they should be slaves to the Tau. (Though you might change it now that I called you out.)

>>98880007
Depends where you go. Here there’s probably less than there used to be, but they are like 80+ percent of all 40k fans on xitter for some reason.

>>98880007
Pretty much, they can't take the fucking jokes and memes as just jokes and memes. (Though that's because they think it like when they say it's a joke. They're just fucking lying and want to make that happen.)

>>98880007
It's normal for there to be more people laughing at retards than there are retards. Only retards think the imperium is actually good.

There's a reason imperiumfagging drops sharply whenever a data center gets hit.

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>>98879884
Its a power fantasy where you can commit any concivable act of violence and evil towards others while being smug about your actions being utterly moral and 100% justified.

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>>98879884

>>98880013
>tilted
That strikes me as projection.
>But I'm bored and will humor you a little bit
Thanks champ
>I'm not saying the Imperium is perfect, however name a group that would take care of them better. I bet you're a commie blueberry lover and think they should be slaves to the Tau
There isn't really anybody right now unfortunately. The only hope for the Imperium is reform, but that's not gonna happen because it's far too radicalized and under far too much external pressure.
I do find it funny how you preempt the Tau though, because yeah, the Tau are kinder to their Gue'vesa than the Imperium is to it's own citizens and grants them a better quality of life. They're not really an option though, because they're much too small and joined the game far too late. They're probably gonna get run over by a hive fleet before too long.
My schizo opinion is that the reason humanity is doomed is because the Emperor was too much of a dumbass to save a single STC. He literally lived through the DAOT, and can see the future on top! He's got no excuse.

>>98880020
Pretty much, that or they can't get their blue pills after giving too many to the children they're grooming. Hints why they hate Space King. (Though you think they would like Hatemonger. Wait, they see him as direct competition. Never mind)

>>98879884
I haven't heard this expressed in earnest, but I have heard plenty of jokes in that vein. I might be in a bubble though. I never interact with >>98879913 for example (none of them in my country).
>>98880015
Xitter having an abundance of bootlickers isn't very surprising. It's been four years since it was bought out to support the authoritarian turn of US politics, so most sane people will have left by now.

>>98880040
>Admits that no group is good and the Imperium is their best bet, but glazed the blueberries anyway.
"I sure hope someone picks that up. Cause I fucking called it!
This is a fucking grimdark setting dumbass. The whole they're is only WAR isn't for fucking show, that's the main fucking draw to the setting, stop trying to make it a giant fucking gay pride/chaos parade. You think you would learn after Bioware, Halo Studios, and all were all shit can for trying to do that gay shit.

>>98880048
>"I sure hope someone picks that up. Cause I fucking called it!
You called it out because it's an oft repeated point. It's an oft repeated point because it's true, and intended by GW. The Tau are a foil to the Imperium, a young, hopeful, rapidly expanding and technologically advancing race, everything the Imperium isn't.
>This is a fucking grimdark setting dumbass. The whole they're is only WAR isn't for fucking show, that's the main fucking draw to the setting, stop trying to make it a giant fucking gay pride/chaos parade. You think you would learn after Bioware, Halo Studios, and all were all shit can for trying to do that gay shit.
You seem to believe we are having an entirely different dicsussion to what we actually are.
And it wasn't always war, even for the Imperium. There was several thousand year period where the Imperium had no real enemies. Chaos was still rebuilding from the Heresy, the Necrons were not awakening, the Orks were reduced from the defeat of the Beast, the Tyranids had not yet arrived, and things were just pretty good in general on the external front. They had peace, and yet they still failed to reform, to change, to improve, to reduce their cruelties towards their fellow man.

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>>98879884
>Why do Imperiumfags feel an almost religious need to pretend that the Imperium is entirely justified?
Nice well poisoning there. But I'm bored.
>anyway
The Imperium of Man after the Horus Heresy legitimately is justified both in how the cruelty is necessary for mankind's survival. Mankind survives by standing together or dies divided. Some elements of mankind need to be forced to stay together by force. In a cruel twist of fate mankind's survival from hubris and external/internal threats justifies the way the Imperium of Man conducts itself.
>Isn't half the point of the setting that the Imperium is horrifically cruel, inefficient and self-sabotaging?
Yes and nowadays "no."
Yes in the sense that degradation and/or stagnation has resulted in that inefficient/self-sabotaging way the imperium is now is more so an inevitability after the big Horus Heresy and the amount of extinction level threats mankind faces.
"No" in the sense that nuGW has made it so (if I recall correctly) that the reason the galaxy is the way it is because the Old Ones didn't help the Necrons after they suffered so long. So the point of the setting is to help those suffering from cancer. As they might turn against you and wreck the galaxy in revenge for you not helping them after they've suffered for so long.

Anyway you don't have to engage with Warhammer 40k if you don't like it. I'm just bored right now and /40kg/ has been buck broken by a single ban evading autist that they made a thread without the /40kg/ in the thread name.

Even ignoring how the Imperium treats it's own people, like letting entire planets starve because of administrative error or the Mechanicum executing someone for engineering a new and more efficient kind of torpedo (literally happened) I still don't think you can consider it's actions towards xenos justified. How does it benefit humanity to waste trillions of lives and huge amounts of resources to purge every minor xenos in existence, even at the expense of possible allies and trade partners? The Tau have been around for like a few centuries and they already have dozens of client races and trading partners, so clearly the excuse of "all xenos are violent monsters that cannot be reasoned with" does not work.

>>98880040
>the Emperor was too much of a dumbass to save a single STC
The emperor works solely as a historical, mythical figure where no one knows his ultimate plan and whether what is happening is at all intended or a result of a total failure.

>>98880098
which is why the Horus Heresy series was a mistake

>>98880068
>. Mankind survives by standing together or dies divided.
[citation needed]
>Yes in the sense that degradation and/or stagnation has resulted in that inefficient/self-sabotaging way the imperium is now is more so an inevitability after the big Horus Heresy and the amount of extinction level threats mankind faces.
Yeah surely not because Imperium was practically interstellar Bronze Age empire.and so it co0uldn't form any stable form of self-sufficient government

>>98880045
>isn't american
>believes that he knows everything about US politics and can tell americans how they should think
And for the record I'm not american either, I just can tell that this kind of attitude is pure unthinking smugness

>>98880041
You're seething so hard I can't even tell what you're angry about.

>>98879884
Authoritarian government is always justified. The common man doesn't deserve a say in their government. Human are made to be ruled not govern themselves. The success of the church is proof of this.

>>98880187
LOL Oh wait you're serious. Let me laugh even harder. HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Cope harder, no one is believing ya

>>98880194
>The success of the church is proof of this.
Lmao, american

>>98880200
This reads like a word salad of seethe.

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>>98880068
>1568844766687.png
lol

>>98879884
>pretend that the Imperium is entirely justified?
There's no need to pretend, it is justified. It's justified by the nature of the galaxy it exists in. When the Men of Iron turned on humanity, and later with the Heresy every single scrap of paranoia and xenophobia was proven to be warranted.

>>98880234
>humanity creates robots
>robots rebels against humans
>humanity creates marines
>marines rebels and rule over humans
>single scrap of paranoia and xenophobia was proven to be warranted.

>>98880243
>so since americans are short on basic education they just simply projects their issues on other countries and cultures.
there are definitively elements of that, I grant you that they have trouble understanding that not everything in other countries work exactly like in theirs but you have to admit that plenty of political and social issues that have come to the fore in european countries in recent years heavily parallel the culture wars of the US and in some cases they were directly transplanted from the US through social media
in most cases however I've noticed that many europeans have come to think in terms that almost the same as those of american politics without any direct influence of their media
the most glaring example for me are race relations and multicultural issues :
I was genuinely surprised to discover (mainly through their website) that the most common criticism that white nationalists and racists in the US make towards minorities (and in particular african americans) is that of widespread criminal and antisocial behaviour and welfare abuse which is exactly what many europeans have blamed third world immigrants and their descendants for almost from the very moment they stepped foot in europe back in the 70s/80s
many of the claims I've read there about blacks and latinos strongly reminded of similar claims I've heard in my country about muslims and romani people but funnily enough many europeans who hold such opinions don't appear to fully realize that they are similar to what many white americans think and they think that "racism" is something very irrational which only americans only are stupid enough to believe whereas they are themselves racist according to the definition that many leftists on both sides of the Atlantic have

>>98879884
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIei9eGtZGc

>>98880268
>They're getting overwhelm by "middle easterners.
And..?

>>98879884
>the Imperium is horrifically cruel, inefficient and self-sabotaging?
because 40k horseshoe theory is real, and "the imperium is cruel because it has to be to survive" starts to sound like "for the greater good"
in which any action, no matter how depraved, is good so long as it achieves a higher balance on the score sheet

>>98880268
99% chance this is a bot.

>>98880321
Oh look, you're already AI hallucinating.
That was easy, I'm like two posts in.

>>98880257
Buddy, data centers using huge amounts of water is a meme.

>>98880261
Yup, justified.

>>98880331
Because..?

>>98880328
>DAMAGE CONTROL DAMAGE CONTROL
At this point I believe literally nothing anyone says that's pro-AI. It is 100% investment fraud and all proponents for it are machines or criminals.

>>98880313
>they've been manipulated by troll farms and algorithms
yeah

>>98880343
that' what you will also say once they end up actually winning elections and governing countries

>>98880348
And if they don't?

Reminder that this is a 40k thread

>>98880352
It's already happened, and it will continue. Burying your head in the sand won't help.

>>98880367
>It's already happened
Where exactly?
>and it will continue.
Heard it two years ago.

>>98879884
Because I'm a human being and side with the humans. Even if said humans are radically different to a 21st century man. I'll happily overlook the Imperiums cruelties when every other race and chaos exist and do far worse to the ordinary human. Xenos of all stripes will kill you, dark eldar will do far more unspeakable things, Eldar and Tau will lie to you with the Tau being worse because they try to pretty it up meanwhile they already have a plan to make you like the Poctroon (I know it isnt 100% confirmed but it is odd how an entire race dies out on one planet to a disease meanwhile the Tau seemed to not be affected), finally the last enemy force is Chaos which I shouldn't really need to go into why they are worse then the Imperium, no excessive debauchery, mindless blood crazed slaughter, endless rot and a schizophrenic mind fuck for an entire existence is not better then the Imperium eradicating people who witness chaos because at the very least the Imperium does it because chaos by its very nature is corruptive even just seeing a symbol of chaos or knowing a name is enough for it to seep in and corrupt you. Being devoured by Nids at the end of helping them destroy a world because you are a genestealer cultist because someone in your family was essentially raped by a genestealer is not a better existence then the Imperium's hatred for the Mutant and trust me you ain't the guy the hivemind might spare so that more genestealer purestrains can infect new humans.

In short yes the Imperium are 100% justified if it means stopping chaos corruption or Alien races exterminating the entire human race by their own various means.

>>98880402
> man. I'll happily overlook the Imperiums cruelties when every other race and chaos exist and do far worse to the ordinary human
?? Sure chaos, the Orks, the Necrons, and the ‘Tyranids are terrible, but the other races are much kinder than humanity. The Tau, Eldar, Kroot, Tarellians, Vespid, Morallians, and probably thousands of other species have proven themselves happy to coexist along with humanity, while the imperium wants nothing but to genocide them. There have been cases where Xenos races have gotten into alliances with the Imperium to fight the Tyranids, only for the Imperium to betray and exterminate the afterwards

>>98880430
> probably thousands of other species have proven themselves happy to coexist along with humanity, while the imperium wants nothing but to genocide them
This really cannot be emphasised enough. The Imperium is a genocide machine that has spent 10,000 years annihilating everything nonhuman. Literally any xenos race with any connection to the wider Galaxy will know about humans and see us as nothing more than another kind of Ork - and they would be right in that belief! The Tau have only been around a few centuries and they’ve already found dozens of alien races willing to work with them. The average alien is far, far from a monster, but Imperiumfags seem to want to pretend that every alien in existence is just another kind of Ork, Tyranid, or Drukhari

>>98880441
>The Imperium is a genocide machine that has spent 10,000 years annihilating everything nonhuman
And that's why they're the good guys.

>>98880430
The Imperium worked with the Eldar and has treaties with some of the Craftworlds. However genestealers are basically the same as leftist commies ruining their world so invaders can walk right and take everything. They also get the same treatment and are taken out too. (I think they wake up and find out what they do just before they killed.)
The Tau basically see humans as lesser and will they're know to wipe their man caste from planets when they don't have much of a use for them. Same with other lower castes.

>>98880040
>the Emperor was too much of a dumbass to save a single STC
He attempted to save many, but he was also stuck on Terra for the Age of Strife and Terra went from a utopian paradise to grimdark Mad Max except worse. And there may be many STCs out there still. Shit, the Imperium knows where at least one surviving intact STC apparently is. One problem: it's sitting on a daemon world in the Maelstrom, have fucking fun getting to it Imperium!

>>98880088
>Mechanicum executing someone for engineering a new and more efficient kind of torpedo
This is specifically the politics of Mechanicum. It isn't stupidity for the sake of stupidity. Plenty of higher ranked AdMech innovate, they're just smart enough to not SAY they're innovating unless they're very sure that they can escape the heretek label from their rivals who may also have political sway and who will shank them to climb higher in the ranks.

The message isn't necessarily that the toasterfuckers are stupid ("lol they killed someone for inventing because they're superstitious retards who believe in religion instead of atheist science, aren't Bill Nye and Neil Tyson smart!"), it's that they spend so much energy on fucking each other over, metaphorically and sometimes literally "eating their own", that they are contributing to the slow rot of the Imperium, the death of a thousand cuts.

>>98879884
cuz they're right

>>98880336
Because "You were born and are alive, so you don't get to complain if you die" is a fucking stupid argument. "But humanity made the robots" doesn't make it their fault when an unknown outside force made them go nuts.

>>98880337
Lol what damage? Buddy, your car has the same technology for using water as coolant. It's not "damage control" to point out something people jumped on is just retarded.

>>98880486
You know they can't accept anything that's not rainbow commie BS as the good guys. Hints why they hate Frieren, Tanya, GW pre2015, D&D before 5e, any straight white male hero that doesn't bend the knee, etc.

>>98880496
You know that thing doesn't understand logic. It's like a zombie, just emotional outbursts. I would say like a toddler but I know most toddlers act better than these things.

>>98879884
The Imperium sucks. It's justified because it keeps all the far worse stuff from wiping out humankind, making them the defacto "good guys" of the setting.

>>98879884
So we're going to ignore the people who look at the fascistic imperium and go "I think fascism is cool and good and therefore think the imeprium is cool and good." These people are outliers. Incredibly loud outliers, but outliers.

If observing people's behavior online has been any indication, a lot of people can't separate the media they consume from their sense of self, and people have incredibly shallow sense of self.

They think of themself as a Good Person™. And they think Space Marines are cool. Since they are a Good Person™, they can't like things that aren't good. So when faced with the naked, monstrous and unnecessary cruelty of the imperium of man, they cope really hard. No see it HAS TO be this way, or else the guys I like are the bad guys, and that doesn't make sense - a Good Person™ like me would not think bad guys are cool. Sometimes you'll get someone with a bit more awareness. They are able to recognize that the setting of 40k is fucked, that it's a universe constantly being made worse by people repeatedly choosing cruelty and violence.This is where you get stage 2 cope. Yes, the Imperium is evil, but you see My Guys are actually the good guys who aren't like the other girls. I play the good guys in the imperium because I am a Good Person™, and the fact that I like them means that they have to be the good guys.

A lot of people would benefit a lot from both recognizing their own capacity for evil and also that they are capable of thinking villains are cool without it being indicative of some moral stance on what the villain does.

>>98880546
The Imperium is objectively the good guy faction. No one good roots for the bugs in starship troopers. Like it or not space nazis are the better option than anything else presented in the setting.

>>98879884
Give a better example that hasn't been already steamrolled in the setting.

>>98880068
>Mankind survives by standing together or dies divided.
Mankind survived division before, it will survive division again.

>>98880298
It's weird that you can actually look into these sorts of claims and quickly find that no only has there been no change, but even the people claiming that there was are backtracking their statements. But lets not that get in the way of a good argument.

>>98880559
Let's put the shoe on the other foot here for a moment.

You're living your life as it is now, then some religious extremists from another planet come down, kill everyone in the immediate area, and start building a new city for themselves to live in.

Would retaliating against these aliens be justified? A simple yes or no will suffice.

>>98880594
>retarded hypothetical that strips context with preset replies
If I fucked you in the ass would you moan? A simple yes or only a little will suffice.

>>98879884
British satire meets modern day America

>>98880611
So it's an allegory for muslims?

>>98880606
I am asking you if your people were killed and if Port Joe Smith was built on their grave, would you'd take it lying down or if you'd kill the motherfuckers that did it? This isn't some hypothetical I'm pulling out of nowhere. I am explaining the inciting incident of Starship Troopers. But let me guess - you're an illiterate moron who has only seen the movie and failed to pick up on the tiniest bit of subtext.

As for your question, sadly that requires more nuance - but the simple answer is "generally yes, but for you specifically no." The prostate is a sensitive organ, and stimulating it does cause a reaction - not enough to make anal sex pleasant, but it's not nothing. However, as your dick is tiny and you've deathgripped yourself into having ED, it would be all of the downsides of anal sex with none of the positives.

You probably think of this as some kind of victory. "oh anon admitted to having had anal sex." However, I want you to understand something - I had the courage to try getting pegged, and discovered that I didn't like it. You live in fear that one day the girlfriend you will never have will go "I want to try something." You're a bitch.

Now. Answer the fucking question anon. Would you let someone genocide your family?

Because that is the current audience that modern 40k has been attracting. GW simultaneously puts out messaging directly stating that the imperium is awful while adding diversity shit to it and saying that certain characters are heroic. Their messaging makes no sense and schizophrenic which is ironic considering how corporate they have become.

>>98879884
You are mixing up cause and effect again, "anon". The original cause was fags like you are pretending to be right now, doing the equivalent of kicking down the door to a movie theater where people were enjoying a action movie, and screaming at them on the top of your lungs about how
>violence is ack-tually hecking problematic, you are le nazis now
(this commonly known as "reddit literacy") as if any of this was real and the vast majority of people weren't there to watch dudes in skull armor mow down edgy aliens. Which had the effect of negative push-back, mostly about how retarded they are being, but some unfortunately being dumb enough to engage the most dishonest faggots in the existence with genuine discourse about the lore, so the fags did what you are shitposting right now and turn it on its head and exaggerate as if any real person randomly came out swinging about justifying the Imperium in the first place, which makes no sense.

>>98880493
It is their fault when Emps knew about the Chaos Gods, we know from the Interex that humanity can at least survive if not thrive when that knowledge is widespread in a society. The AI and heresy both happened in large part due to keeping things secret when controlled disclosure may have been the better option. It's less humanity at large's fault than the Imperium as an expression of Emps' hubris (partially justified, still tainted by a tragic flaw and made a ruin).

>>98880497
The fuck is this false dichotomy projection? The Imperium itself was once a benevolent autocracy that sane people can see is superior to it's state in the 40th millennium. "Less bad" does not mean demanding utopia which in any case is a concept that differs from person to person.

>>98880546
I honestly don't get why people can't enjoy >>98879910 and >>98880022 while recognising that the setting bends over backwards to make the genocidal crusader perspective both laughable and justified. The background fluff for an intentionally ott miniatures game is taken way too seriously.

>>98880088
>to purge every minor xenos in existence
Imperium literally has sanctioned xenos (ever heard of the Jokaero?), and they do accept tolerance or trade with them. The problem is that the vast majority of xenos were/are ironically inherently xenophobic towards humans or became so during/because of the Horus Heresy.
>The Tau have been around for like a few centuries and they already have dozens of client races and trading partners, so clearly the excuse of "all xenos are violent monsters that cannot be reasoned with" does not work.
Maybe try reading beyond surface level Codex propaganda? I'm absolutely a Tau lover, but I'm under no illusion that the Ethereals aren't an outside xenos job created to mindcontrol and gaslight the original Tau populations, not to mention strong arm, manipulate and/or mind control (look up what the Vespid's masks do) their client (why the fuck would they be clients if they're supposed to be equals under the Greater Good?!) races and auxiliaries. There's a very good reason Farsight did what he did and why the Enclaves exist. Same as there are very good reasons the 4th Expansion Sphere turned out the way it did.

>>98880636
>failed to pick up on the tiniest bit of subtext.
A mediate literate argument in this era, wild.
I think you gave the game away

>>98880007
The "Imperium-fags" were never real to any extent that mattered, it always more retards being performatively ignorant and virtue circlejerking about players who like the Imperium as a fictional faction doing
>For the Emperor
style memeing, and deliberately misinterpreting that as
>le dogwhistle for muh heckin nazirinos

>>98880672
>Interex that humanity can at least survive if not thrive when that knowledge is widespread in a society
Ever think about that the Interex were allowed to exist by the whims of the chaos gods solely to corrupt horrus? We've seen plenty of examples of chaos holding back to create a false sense of security etc, their entire society just seems like a Tzeenchian trap.
The truth is that they were a one off plot point to create some kind of cheap melodrama.

>>98880692
That's a possibility, sure. We also know for a fact that Horus fell due to doubting Emps over a lack of transparency among other things. Emps is not infallible or at least has a 'plan' that ends with him a corpse figurehead to a faith that would make any Reddit atheist blush. To insist that the Imperium is the best possible version of itself given the 40k verse rings hollow. It's much more satisfying and believable to me if it's a mix of necessity, tragedy and comedy (proportions may vary according to the viewer's judgement).

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Imperiumfags are eternally assblasted because craftworld Eldar unquestionably occupy the moral high ground and have the best standard of living and culture and are tied for the best technology AND have the best model range in 40k.

>>98880546
So we're going to ignore the people who look at the fascistic Tau Empire and go "I think fascism is cool and good and therefore think the Tau is cool and good." These people are outliers. Incredibly loud outliers, but outliers.

If observing people's behavior online has been any indication, a lot of people can't separate the media they consume from their sense of self, and people have incredibly shallow sense of self.

They think of themself as a Good Person™. And they think Tau are cool. Since they are a Good Person™, they can't like things that aren't good. So when faced with the hypocritical, monstrous and unnecessary cruelty of the Tau Empire, they cope really hard. No see it HAS TO be this way, or else the guys I like are the bad guys, and that doesn't make sense - a Good Person™ like me would not think bad guys are cool. Sometimes you'll get someone with a bit more awareness. They are able to recognize that the setting of 40k is fucked, that it's a universe constantly being made worse by people repeatedly choosing cruelty and violence.This is where you get stage 2 cope. Yes, the Tau is evil, but you see My Guys are actually the good guys who aren't like the other girls. I play the good guys in the Tau because I am a Good Person™, and the fact that I like them means that they have to be the good guys.

A lot of people would benefit a lot from both recognizing their own capacity for evil and also that they are capable of thinking villains are cool without it being indicative of some moral stance on what the villain does.

>>98880705
The Emperor is a secret warp WMD (his soul isn't even human, just the human race was engineered to evolve into ever far more psychic potential in order to eventually birth a physical vessel strong enough to withstand this special soul) left behind by the Old Ones before they were forced to abandon the Milky Way galaxy once Necrons started raping them too hard and their own brightest "brilliant minds" betrayed them (presumably by usurping a lot of their race's psychic powers) and ascended into the Warp as what later evolved into and became the four Chaos Gods.

>>98880637
That's really the most backwards part about all that nonsense and makes you really wonder how the people who try to tell you all about "media literacy" not getting whiplash about going back and forth on their talking points thanks to it.
>the imperium is the pure evil zealotic self-sabotaging authoritarian gene-purist state, akin to the third reich and meant to be satire
>but also there are totally progressive, embrace diversity as strength and have hardened boss women in leadership positions and even break the glass ceiling of the super soldier gene selection, which is good and meant to be taken at face value

>>98880705
The story began to unravel and fall apart into bad capeshit the moment the retards in charge decided they needed to explain everything and push the plot beyond setting, instead of letting people fill in the gaps through speculation. The midwit poison is losing value in mystery.
No one is arguing that the Imperium is the best possible version of itself, especially when 30k was a thing. It's the faction that best represents the interests of humanity, in this case long term survival, in a setting where everything is supposed to be shitty and flawed. Emphasis on the shitty and flawed, this is a universal constant in the IP.
Due to the necessity of being since they decided to push the plot, GW were forced to actually justify the motivations, buildup, and reasoning of the Imperium. People that scoff and reddit smirk that the Imperium could just stop being retarded and win the setting are more braindead than the people who go beyond the larp and take the Imperium seriously.

>>98880713
The Eldar murderraped Slannesh into existence which also destroyed the Human/Xeno federation and turned them into what they are today. They were also culpable in the War in Heaven which ruined the universe forever.

>>98880727
>the Imperium could just stop being retarded and win the setting
they could do that though
the imperium could salvage the situation overnight if they weren’t so retarded as to not even know or bother to check that they have complete STCs, daot super weapons, and other such things already in their possession
>BUT THE WRITERS WOULDNT ALLOW THAT
no shit retard

>>98879884
They're manchildren whose entire personality revolves around a plastic army man game, these aren't the best and brightest.

>>98880732
>The Eldar murderraped Slannesh
No, the Old Ones did that themselves already way before that. The peak Eldar debauched empire just became the catalyst that sparked the rebirth of Slaanesh into its current god form.
>They were also culpable in the War in Heaven which ruined the universe forever.
Keep in mind the Eldar were just yet another weapons bioengineering project by the Old Ones, who are the actual and sole root cause of the War in Heaven, by fucking over the Necrontyr

>>98880732
How come imperiumfags always try to equate the Eldar empire with the Craftworlders? Do they know it’s retarded but try it anyways because they have nothing else? Do they also seethe at South Koreans whenever Kim Jong Un kills another tourist?

>>98879951
You really aren't helping your case when you start ranting about troons out of nowhere.

>>98880722
Yeah and that still leaves room for tragedy and comedy along with stony seriousness. These things can complement each other rather than contradict. Or at least they could if GW didn't insist on shitting the bed so frequently.

>>98880727
It can't "just stop being retarded". It's that not being partially retarded would defeat the point of the setting the same way the the absence of evil aliens no longer justifying genocide would. Everything exists as an excuse for LARP with some military-industrial justifications thrown in to sell the scale of the carnage between the rule of cool that things mostly run on. I agree that it's overexplained but don't care to rank grades of retardation in the fanbase, the key thing is that digging into the details of the Imperium and discussing what it is, can or should be is a passtime ultimately secondary to whatever your dudes are doing in a given battle.

>>98880068
>Mankind survives by standing together or dies divided.
Age of Strife happening literally proves you wrong.
Humanity survived just fine through that shit.
The only planets and colonies that didn't really survive it, were the ones who thought that joining the empire being lead by a genocidal, tyrannical god-king was a good idea.
Mind you, most of them didn't even fight back until forced to, they just disagreed with the Emperor and only thing it got them was genocide.

The Imperium was always evil from the start.
Only reason why it is the "humanity's only hope" is because Emperor and his legions literally destroyed and obliterated every single other option out of existance.

>>98880088
From the perspective of Xenos the imperium is in pracrice, no different from tyranids or orks. They are genocidal barbarians that seek to eradicate all non human civilizations.

>>98880402
>Imperium are 100% justified if it means stopping chaos corruption
Imperium is the sole reason why chaos is so retardedly rampant in the galaxy in the first place.
It supplied Chaos with its strongest fighters in the form of chaos marines.
It continues to subject humanity to such horrific conditions that people regularly join chaos because Imperium is such a shit hole that joining a satanic cult is better than living in the empire.
On top of this it's been confirmed that the Emperor/humanity by proxy, are the reason why chaos even exists in the first place thanks to End and the Death 3.

>>98880298
Wasn't this complete bullshit fake news?

>>98880725
That's what happens when their priority is to boost their ideology instead of maintaining the good parts of the setting. It turns into them condemning all the old problematic shit and treating it as canon while simultaneously retconning it. As if they know that no one will take their retcons seriously and that people will consider them noncanon so they have to shore up both positions. They know exactly what they are doing when they push this shit, GW is 10 years too late on this trend as always though. The more they push it the more they will hurt future sales when the surface level normal fags leave and the actual fans feel like they have been neglected in favor of retarded social fads

>>98880732
The craftworld eldar literally had nothing to do with the birth of Slaanesh you fucking tourist. Their entire lore is based on the fact that they rejected that path their species was on, and fled fron the empire, like the exodites did.

Imperiumfaggots who spout the whole "Muh slaanesh" shit just expose how clueless they are about the lore of the Eldar. The craftworld Eldar aren't some "we went too far, time to become puritans" gooners with a shameful past. They were the eldar equivalent of chuds who saw the shit going on in the empire and went "This shit is degenerate as fuck, the empire is fallen, time to fuck off".

>>98880789
Eldar lore makes less and less sense the more you think about it so I can't blame imperium fags for not know that tidbit

>>98880809
The core choice that created and defines a faction is a "tidbit"? That's like thinking of the Emperor without bearing in mind the mass shamanic suicide and combination that created him. It's a gaping, inexcusable hole in understanding.

>>98880809
The Eldar lore is quite straightfoward and far better than imperium's lore.
>Genetically engineered warrior race with inherent psychic capabilities designed by the Old Ones to fight the necrons. Their gods are psychic constructs in the warp, that they can apparently summon into the material realm during the war in heaven.
> outlast their creators and become the dominant power of the galaxy after Necrons exhaust themselves in the war in heaven and in their backstabbing of the C'tan.
>spend the next 60 million years as the dominant power in the galaxy, cultivating worlds for their own leisure and making use of the webway the old ones left behind.
>Their long lives, ability to reincarnate, and culture that favors beauty and nature, lead to them treating the galaxy more like a garden and letting other lifeforms bloom, as none can threaten the Eldar in any meaningful way, their empire is highly centralized and it's tendrils extend and cover the galaxy not trough physical space, but trough the webway.
>This long lasting peace and dominance starts to lead to the eldar empire's moral decay and debauchery, as nothing can challenge the eldar, and their own arrogance and ennui start to take a malignant shape.
>As the excesses of the eldar grow, their emotions are reflected into the warp starting the process of Slaanesh being awoken. At various points in this process, some eldar depart the empire, first the exodites, then the craftworlders, whose colossal trading ships already cruised the galaxy and became pockets of culture separated from the core of the empire.
>Commoragh grows into a den of scum and villainy where even worse shit than was happening in the eldar core worlds goes on.
>cue the birth of Slaanesh, the death of their gods, the destruction of the eldar empire as it is consumed by the Eye of Terror, and the different splinter groups of surviving Eldar becoming fragments of a now close to extinction race, trying to survive in a hostile galaxy.

>>98880835
Pottery.

>>98880835
You forgot they were so shit at their engineered job, that Old Ones had to create the Krorks instead to replace them in their final moments of the WiH and even the Harlequins (who are the only ones still retaining at least some "first-hand" knowledge from that time) acknowledge they were much more terrifying than anything else before. I mean the Eldar's empire afterwards wasn't a "good enough fight" to keep the Krorks from degenerating into Orks due to lack of stimulation

>>98879884
Autism

>>98880855
Retard. The Krorks were there for a different task. The eldar were psychic elite forces designed to counteract the supertech of the necrons and their c'tan overlords with literal warp magic. Krorks were there to just to crump the billions of nercon warriors and warmachines that could reanimate. They rerpoduce so fast and have inate engineered skills in their DNA precisely so that they could match the endless atrition that the war in heaven exacted upon the warring factions.

Krorks and Eldar were never meant to do the same job in the war in heaven. They had different roles.

>>98879884
well, let's put it down as simple as I can.
>Humans are facing literal extinction.
>Big Green fucktards with technology that works on make-belief woo-woo and "nuh huh that didnt happen" that will turn you to extra chunky salsa for a laugh
>Space cockroaches with a food diet that comprises literally anything and everything, organic or not
>Dickish Space Knife-Ears that would rayher do onto others before they get done onto them, which is literally what the imperium is also running on
>Dickish BDSM Space Knife-Ear who WILL do to you and on eachother things worse than death, like getting turned into furniture while you're still conscious, alive and sane enough to understand the magnitude of how fucked you've gotten
>Alien assholes with guns that can hit you between the eyes from across an entire continent with barely any effort and promises of better treatment while sterilizing you, your family, children and everyone you know for the "greater good"
>Space Robots that are basically a cross between Terminator and Space Egypt with technology that forcefully tells the fundamental laws of science to go kill itself with a shotgun because they have more important shit to deal with than respecting the laws of Thermodynamics or whatever with guns that literally rips atoms from your bodies into literally nothing. Gauss guns literally take Einstein's law of relativity behind the barn and fucking butchers it like its a thanksgiving turkey, or a Flayed One tears into a squad of Guardsmen
>AND THEN WE HAVE THE FUCKING TRAITORS, HERETICS AND THE WORST OF THE WORST OF OUR SPECIES WHO WILL KILL US ALL AND FEED US TO 4TH DIMENSIONAL DEMON ALIENS FROM SPACE HELL FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES BECAUSE OF THEY HAD THE UNIVERSE'S WORST CASE OF DADDY ISSUES NEVER BEFORE SEEN AND NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN.

And you ask us, imperiumfags why we're rooting for the Imperium.
BECAUSE LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE WILL FUCKING KILL YOU WITHOUT A SECOND, OR EVEN A FIRST THOUGHT.

>>98880824
Yes. Craftworlders are essentially the people who thought the old ways are best and ignore the fact that the old ways brought them there to begin with. They are also dumb enough to think that the answer to warp shit is more warp shit, and furthermore they apparently still fraternize with the Dark Eldar and Eldar have no real issue moving between their factions. So yes, tidbit.
>>98880835
>eldar empire has control of the whole galaxy/is dominant power in the galaxy
Many issues with this
>eye of terror is only in one corner somehow meaning the eldar did fuck all for millions of years and as a race they were basically in stasis
>barely any eldar artefacts spread out all over like necron ones are or even mentioned as being in commeragh despite that is where a nexus of a lot of their decentralized webway realms ended up, apparently they never progress technologically in those years to be able to just wipe out Necrons either
>craftworlders take barely, if any, of these artefacts with them
>Eldar despite having reincarnation and massive psychic ability don't collectively see the birth of Slaanesh coming, only a couple people do
And the cherry on top is that with the current Necron retcon lore the Necrons have essentially replaced the role of the wise ancient race and Eldar have lost their niche in the setting from this.

>>98880855
The Eldar literally beat the Krork so hard they degenerated into Orks

>>98880869
>>eye of terror is only in one corner somehow meaning the eldar did fuck all for millions of years and as a race they were basically in stasis
Retard, the eldar empire's core was in the Eye of Terror. It extended trough the galaxy via the webway. That is why there are webway gates basically fucking everywhere in the galaxy. Same goes for maiden worlds wherever the eldar found a suitable enough world for their tastes to start terraforming them in a process that took millions of years to complete, as the eldar lived for millenia if not more, and were able to fucking reincarante. They were never like humans, they didn't need to infest the galaxy the way humanity or orks do. They were nigh immortal beings that could tend to the galaxy like gardeners where lesser races posed no threat to them.

>>apparently they never progress technologically

Commoragh does have all kinds of fucked shit hidden in it by the powers that be though. But millenia of factional warfare. Also, the eldar technology in general has regressed and changed from their height during their empire, because the mere fact that Slaanesh exists means that the eldar cannot do the shit they could do with psychic shenanigans back during their height. Wraith constructs are post fall tech, basically all dark eldar weapon tech is by necessity post fall stuff as the Dark Eldar abandoned psychic engineering entirely.

The eldar also didn't bother with the necrons who had from their perspective, retreated into hiding and the eldar empire was confident that if they woke again, the empire could just crush them. The empire obviously didn't count on the fall happening.

>>craftworlders take barely, if any, of these artefacts with them
Because they were basically the equivalent of eldar space truckers, not the elites of their society.

>>don't collectively see the birth of Slaanesh coming
The empire and it's leadership had grown arrogant to the extreme.

You just don't fucking know Eldar lore.

>>98880869
The Eldar did see the coming of Slaanesh. They literally brought it about deliberately. They just thought it would be another of their pantheon, not a Chaos God

>>98880207
Cope harder. That hail-mary insult isn't going to do shit.

>>98879884
Survival of a species is always justifiable from the point of view of those trying to survive. They don't need any additional justification, they are keeping humanity alive in the face of multiple existential threats.

>>98880914
Slaanesh's hatred of the Eldar also stems from the fact that his "parent's" were so horrified of her the moment he was born that they basically rejected her then and there, which led to Slaanesh throwing a temper tantrum and consuming the eldar she could get his claws on as well as their gods.

>>98880869
You are fucking retarded. The Craftworld Eldar specificially do not live like the pre-fall eldar. The path system is entirely a post-fall thing. The things they retained from their ancestors are elements of their culture like poetry, art, mythology and technology they could still safely use, whereas basically everything else they have is post-fall innovations or modifications.

Pre-fall Eldar did not have aspect warriors, they didn't use waystones the way the Craftworld Eldar and exodites use them, they didn't live like the craftworlders do at all.

Saying that the Craftworld Eldar think that the "old ways were da best" is like saying that The Imperium of Man acts like Dark age of Technology was the best way to run shit.

Why the fuck are secondaries so adamant to spout lore about the eldar and factions in 40k in general, when they don't fucking know even the most basic shit about them?

>>98880855
>You forgot they were so shit at their engineered job, that Old Ones had to create the Krorks instead
No, they were not bad at their job. Kroks are the "brawn" to the eldar's "brain".
They were created for completely different things.
Also there's even hints that the eldar weren't necessarily even created by the Old Ones and instead were a pre-existing species that got uplifted by the Old Ones. So there's possibility Old Ones didn't even create the eldar.

>>98880869
>>Eldar despite having reincarnation and massive psychic ability don't collectively see the birth of Slaanesh coming, only a couple people do
Many of them did.
The exodites were the first ones to actually see the writing on the wall and just fucked off to the maiden worlds to become Amish eldar because they knew nothing could be done.

Craftworlders also saw that Slaanesh was coming but spent their time trying to stop it by trying to turn around their morally degenerating society.
Craftworlders finally left when they realized birth of Slaanesh was inevitable, and even then it was a bit too late which resulted in thousands of craftworlds ship being destroyed as Slaanesh was born and the Eye of Terror tore reality.

Then there were Pleasure Cults (proto-dark eldar and their ancestors), many of them could see Slaanesh coming and specifically were doing the degenerate shit so they COULD bring it forth. Pleasure Cults were basically chaos worshippers.

>>98880869
More gaping inexcusable holes in your understanding. What a surprise.

>>98880984
>Craftworlders also saw that Slaanesh was coming but spent their time trying to stop it by trying to turn around their morally degenerating society.
>Craftworlders finally left when they realized birth of Slaanesh was inevitable, and even then it was a bit too late which resulted in thousands of craftworlds ship being destroyed as Slaanesh was born and the Eye of Terror tore reality.


It is extra retarded when imperiumfaggots claim that the Craftworld eldar did nothing to stop birth of Slaanesh or even blame them for it when the lore has consistently stated that the Craftworlders were the ones raising the alarm, trying to save their people from this path and even died in the birth of Slaanesh because some of them tried their best to save their people for too long.

>>98879884
Its a game played with little plastic soldiers dude

>>98879884
They're no less justified than the Eldar are in being manipulative dickbags, or the Tau being expansionist commie dickbags, or the Necron are in being ancient robot mummy dickbags, or the Space Marines are in being homoerotic goosestepping dickbags.

It's a fight for survival and dominance of the galaxy. You can be horrifically cruel, inefficient, self-sabotaging, and still justified in at least trying to do SOMETHING for the sake of the species not being drowned in a tidal wave of green fight happy mushroom bois, hungry bugs and retarded space cultists, even if that something is still evil and less effective than if you were nice about it.

>>98880998
By the imperiumfag logic, all of humanity is forever to blame for everything Horus and the chaos marines have ever done, because despite any efforts to stop it, it still happened. Humans have no right to rule the galaxy because they created a galaxy spanning coordinated army of chaos worshipping super soldiers.

Arguably even less than the eldar, since exodites and craftworlders are actually really good at resisting chaos corruption, as opposed to humanity which has new chaos cults every week.

>>98881187
What about the part where they fought back chaos into the warp toilet while eldar shrugged and consider dark eldar to be cousins?

>>98881278
The difference between dark eldar and chaos worshipping humans is that Dark Eldar actively still fight against chaos. Deldar regularly fuck with Chaos incursions into the webway etc. They are not part of the forces enslaved to the dark gods and part of their own hubris is that they believe that they can stave off Slaanesh's grip on their souls by feeding on the suffering of lesser races.

Dark Eldar do not worship Slaanesh unlike billions humans who do.

>le tourist
>uses forced bunkerchan lingo

>>98880496
>>98880507
>AIfags seething their credibility is shot
lol

>>98881474
This is dark eldar cope. They literally feed slaanesh, aka give it offerings, by toruting to excess. They're just blind to their own failings, as is the entire bit of the eldar and the setting in general.

>>98881686
literally everyone is always feeding the chaos gods by existing. Other than necrons, they're the only ones that actually beat chaos.

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>>98879884
Because I'm on the side of humanity. The Imperium is not perfect, but it is by far the best hope to bring a second golden age for humanity. Nobody said the path to salvation would be easy.

>>98881710
The entire point is that they are not, and are inevitably doomed.
Even in a meta manner, GW will always wank the fuck out of chaos to make the imperium even more doomeder.

>>98881706
The dark eldar proactively go out to find more people to feed to slaanesh and practice getting the best at torture to make sure the souls taste better. Its not just by existing, its by continuing to exist in specifically hedonistic and excessive ways to make better sacrifices. That its self interested doesn't matter at all, or perhaps is even better befitting worship of the dark prince.

>>98881686
Still better than anything what actual chaos worshipping humans do. Dark Eldar don't offer themselves to Slaanesh like countless humans have done. Dark Eldar are arguably morally beter than any human that serves chaos.

>>98881767
You're not getting it, the self delusion is part of being a slave to darkness. That you think there can be some sort of moral victory in 40k and need it to be over the imperium for irl /pol/ reasons is deeply retarded.

>>98881785
I am not disputing that Dark Eldar are deluded an arrogant. But in practice, they do not align with any of the chaos forces and effectively fight along the side of the Craftworld Eldar, Harlequins and Exodites against Chaos. They are part of the broad Eldar anti-chaos alignment, rather than being slaves to chaos like chaos space marines are.

>>98881798
I don't know what else to tell you man. You can not like it but their entire faction literally make exquisite torture treats for a chaos god in a way they have perfected into a variety of art forms that are the mainstay of their culture.
That they fight whoever is threatening them doesn't make them anti chaos, chaos fights chaos all the time too.

>>98879884
Fanboysim and culture war self-inserting. Which is gay, just like the setting for what it is. While I think Imperials along with dorfs, elves and arguably bluberries are the good guys/order, their flaws are what make them fun.
>>98879913
Not really, it portrays Emps as a hypocrite there considering what he does in relation to what he says (also McNeil writes him to be a caricature of an internet atheist in how he argues, he should ave just been written to focus on how he thinks destroying religion will starve chaos and write him as a more Nietzschean atheist). It also portrays most of the atheistic factions (Emps, pre-fall eldar, dark eldar, etherals) as bad as well, not just the religious ones.
>because they often are religious
I'm a eurofag catholic and I play orks

>>98881811
Chaos marines never fight against chaos itself alongside the Imperium, whereas the Dark Eldar regularly do so alongside their Craftworld Eldar cousins, and barely if every co-operate with chaos factions. The only time I can even recall Dark Eldar working together with Chaos is with Haemonculi teaching Fabious Bile some shit and that's pretty much it.

The Dark Eldar actively loathe chaos and chaotic factions, back when the game had ally matrixes the Dark Eldar had come the apocalypse rating with Chaos forces.
Calling Dark Eldar a chaos faction is a fundamental missunderstanding of their nature, and is ultimately just cope from imperiumfanboys that dislike the fact that the dark eldar treat humans as cattle and prey things. The souls of humanity would feed chaos regardless if Dark Eldar nourish themselves on their suffering or not. Humanity is the greatest source of power for chaos gods in 40k.

>>98880020
>Only retards think the imperium is actually good.
But they along with Eldar, Votann and Tau are good compared to everything else. In the context of the setting.

unbelievable how quickly "objective morality" niggas fold
they don't even try anymore

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>>98881716
>The entire point is that they are not, and are inevitably doomed.
oh then name a better way for humanity to survive in 40k
By all means, enlighten us

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Dark Eldar refresh is coming. I can feel it.

>>98881862
You can post more about how you don't understand if you want but I'll make it very simple for you just in case.
It doesn't matter what the faction thinks of itself as, the entire point of the setting is self deception and hubris leading to their own corruption and downfall.
That's it. You're stuck on what the faction alignment chart in the rulebook does for force organization or what an entire species of narcissistic sociopaths tell themselves about how they're totally different than all the others.
Continue being wrong and failing to understand or not, there's not much else to do that this point.

>>98881706
>Other than necrons, they're the only ones that actually beat chaos.
I have some bad news for you about the latest wicked and warped book

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Any moment in the 40k books where there was a Mexican standoff?

>>98881949
Except it is not just what the Dark Eldar think about themselves. It is the nature of their actions that showcase that they are not aligned with chaos.

They actively oppose chaos in a consistent fashion. Their treatment of humans does not make them a chaos faction, GW itself has repeatedly also acknowledged this both in lore and in the rules.

All you have is copium about the fact that they torture humans. You might as well claim that humans are a chaos faction because of the way servitors are treated or how humanity genocides entire races of xenos. Those actions of inflicted suffering feed the chaos gods the same way dark eldar treatment of humanity feeds them.

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>>98879910

>>98880869
>barely any eldar artefacts spread out all over like necron ones are or even mentioned as being in commeragh despite that is where a nexus of a lot of their decentralized webway realms ended up, apparently they never progress technologically in those years to be able to just wipe out Necrons either
All webway gates looks like eldar ones, on many planets like former Duriel aka Valedor much a lot eldar ruins, but you are too retarded to read anything but random bolterporn

>>98881716
>>98881938
tertiary-kun...

>>98880350
>Rosa Luxemburg died squealing and begging for her life
you've got a source to back it up ?
not ironic, I'm genuinely curious

>>98879904
I first thought you were responding to OP's question. But now I realize you were predicting this thread.

>>98880298
>name's literally TARDio

>>98880027
I remember when the right part would be considered not just satire, but very hamfisted and heavy-handed one.

>>98881474
>Dark Eldar actively still fight against chaos.
So does Chaos. Traitors spend more time fighting each other in the Eye than do bothering anyone else. The different flavors of Chaos (and often, the same flavor) get along about as well as Orks.

>>98882577
Yeah, but the difference is that Dark Eldar do it systematically and in what is effectively co-operation with other eldar groups, chiefly harlequins but also with Craftworlders etc. They are willing to put their conflicting kabalite interests aside to fuck up chaos forces as well. The Dark Eldar clearly treat chaos as a foe that is fundamentally different from their own rivalries and what not, and they organize collectively with other eldar against chaos.

That is fundamentally different from how proper chaos factions operate.

>>98882689
Me against my brother.
My brother and I against my cousin.
My cousin, brother, and I against the world.

>>98881662
You can complain about AI all you want, but if your complaint is something that's not even real no one will care.

>>98883116
>Seething that nobody believe him any more
lol

>>98880713
>responsible for the enshitificaion of the setting, birth of a chaos God, and some of the worst events in the settings history
>"morally good"

>>98880040
He fucking called you.
Tau are probably worse than the Imperium. The Imperium has a reason to hate xenos after humanity tried to form peaceful relationships with them only to be repeatedly backstabbed by xeno "allies" the moment they looked weak, which is why the Emperor enacted his "no xenos" laws.
Tau outright enslave other races and genocide any who don't want to join the greater good. They castrate humans and other xenos that don't toe the line hard enough, they are communists through and through- ie, monsters.

>>98883722
> Tau are probably worse than the Imperium
No they’re not and even the most rabid Imperiumfag knows it
> The Imperium has a reason to hate xenos after humanity tried to form peaceful relationships with them only to be repeatedly backstabbed by xeno "allies" the moment they looked weak, which is why the Emperor enacted his "no xenos" laws.
Literal fanfiction. We don’t have a single example of an alien betraying DAoT after they fell. We have plenty of examples of DAoT attacking and conquering aliens unprovoked. For example, the Rhino was used to exterminate a Stone Age Xenos species that was occupying a planet DAoT wanted.
The only actual stab in the back is in the Rogue Trader RPG sourcebook "Faith & Coin, where humans betray their own xenos allies lmao
> Tau outright enslave other races and genocide any who don't want to join the greater good
The Imperium genocides everybody, not just their enemies. And the Tau treat their “slaves” better than the Imperium treats it’s citizens
> They castrate humans and other xenos that don't toe the line hard enough
That’s a meme that only appeared once in a vidoegame

Even during the DAoT humanity genocided aliens
>Down the ages, there have been innumerable wars against the xenos, planet-wide battles of annihilation and long campaigns of of genocide that have stretched over vast distances and era.
>Many Imperial planets were usurped from xenos races long ago, some during the initial colonialisations of the Age of Technology, and now the aliens' very existence on such worlds has been forgotten.

>>98883763
Also from the HH Rulebook
> As human civilisation fragmented, hundreds of xenos races and enemies unknown seized their chance for revenge on humanity for its past conquests, or to plunder unprotected worlds and enslave their populations.
Xenos never “betrayed” humanity. They were conquered and subjugated, and when their conquerors were weak they struck back

Another example of humanity attacking Xenos
> Discovered in the early years of the Age of Technology, Alpha Shalish was originally known as the crimson planet, for it glowed a deep red hue when glimpsed from orbit. Warmed by the energies of two suns, the planet was verdant, rich in both flora and fauna. The pioneers who named Alpha Shalish and marked it for prime conquest did not need to employ any of the atmosphere-fixing wonders invented at that time - neither the oxy-converter, self-sustaining hab-domes, nor ion discharging reactors. There was strong resistance to human colonisation, however,by xenos species whose very type has been lost over the years. Early resistance was rectified by planet scorching - a slash and burn bombardment that, a decade later when the colonists arrived,left an unpopulated world, ripe for cultivation. The new settlers found ancient xenos ruins predating their arrival by many thousands of years, but these were dozed over and buried beneath their new endeavours. Progress was swift in those days, and expansion was spurred by the discovery of rich mineral mines in the neighbouring systems. As the largest and most inhabitable planet on the clearest Warp route, Alpha Shalish was soon a thriving port world.

>>98883722
> responsible for the enshitificaion of the setting, birth of a chaos God, and some of the worst events in the settings history
People have already spoken about how the Craftworlders are not responsible. And humanity provided most of Chaos’ mortal worshippers, caused the great rift via the destruction of the pylons, and nearly birthed the Dark King

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>>98879951
Tell us more about your fetish.

>>98883759
Goddamn, you really are a tertiary. "Um no akshually the tau are the best established ever good comrades and the icky evil humans are the worst and they did everything wrong
You should read more about the War of Iron. Note that humanity was set to come out alright until the aliens in their peaceful federation decided now was the perfect time to kill off humanity so thry could restart reaving and raping.

>>98883836
Crafteorod eldar are the ones that split off from the hedonists after they had already skullfucked the universe. Just because they act all high and noble now, doesn't change the fact that they are the root cause of so many bad things in the setting.

>>98879884
It's an offshoot of the HFY movement, you'll frequently see "X is justified because they are human and I am human." Before HFY took off Imperium fans tended to idolize what the Imperium COULD be, or what they imagined it was before the Horus Heresy, rather than trying to justify its current state. Or sometimes people just like to roleplay and reply HERESY! BLAM! to any suggestion of fault in the Imperium's dealings.

>>98883969
You know I hear this "not voting blue is voting against your interests" canard all the time but I never see any of these supposed evils manifest, let alone to the degree of, say, Stalin's purges, the Khmer Rouge, or even just the ongoing riots in France. Weird.

i personally found the anti-imperium posters that keep raiding this board so annoying. I just stopped bothering to engage in 40k discussion. I guess thats the idea.
But modern nu40k just isn't as interesting as it once was.

>>98884223
>canard all the time but I never see any of these supposed evils manifest
No. You do. Someone tells you them and on cue you reply "Based."

I like that the Imperium is evil and dehumanizing. It makes the genuine heroes shine brighter by contrast

>>98883958
>Um no akshually the tau are the best established ever good comrades and the icky evil humans are the worst and they did everything wrong
Nobody said that. The Tau are not perfect, but there is a reason human worlds regularly defect to them. They have even allowed humans worlds to leave their empire under certain circumstances! See Elemental Council.
> War of Iron
You mean the Men of Iron? It’s not the fault of Xenos that humans failed to program loyalty into it’s machines
> Note that humanity was set to come out alright until the aliens in their peaceful federation decided now was the perfect time to kill off humanity so thry could restart reaving and raping
Were they? You say this, but an anon just posted multiple receipts showing DAoT invading, genocide, subjugating aliens. What makes you think those xenos weren’t just aliens attacking humans now that they no longer had the power to genocide or oppress them?
We also have examples of humans and aliens living peacefully, and even xenos protecting humans. The Imperium still genocided regardless. See exodite worlds in the great crusade as an example
“Muh DAoT betrayal” is the flimsiest of excuses and supported by next to no lore whatsoever.

Tau
>average citizen is afforded a decent quality of life
>has access to housing, healthcare, food, and education
>has state-mandated guaranteed employment
>Orwellian surveillance state which immediately catches criminals. Would be a minus in any other universe, but this is the same place where Genestealer cultists, Chaos, and mind-controlling aliens exist so here it’s more a neutral point
Imperium
>average citizen is afforded no quality of life
>are often homeless, starving, and sick, and unless you’re nobility you have no access to education whatsoever
>often a slave, unemployed, or in a job that pays so poorly they have to turn to crime
>effectively has no surveillance at all; criminals, cultists, and monsters often run free as long as they don’t act out enough to attract the local inquisitor or guard regiment
Yeah but muh Tau worse

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>>98880067
You're retarded. The imperium's entire existence has been plagued by one war or another. Chaos launched multiple black crusades over the millennia you stupid monkey nigger.

>>98884427
The Imperium was demilitarising just before the War of the Beast, after 1500 years of peace post Great Scouring. Things were so peaceful that Space Marines were slowly being marginalised because they just weren’t needed.
Even the War of the Beast wasn’t enough to turn the Imperium into the hellish place we know, but then The Beheading in the mid 500s M32 caused some Chaos.
The Imperium again started picking up the pieces after that, and the Great Forging started. This was a period so successful that the 5th Edition Rulebook says it was something like a second Great Crusade. The Imperium waxed in power and greatly expanded, pushing back all hostile forces. Lasted from the end of M32 to M35 - 3,000 years of success.
So no, the Imperium has not been under constant serious pressure. There has always been a war here and there, but in a million world empire a single war is a drop In the bucket.

>>98884444
> Chaos
Meant to be a lowercase. It was chaos in the more conventional sense, nothing severe

>>98882035
>Except it is not just what the Dark Eldar think about themselves. It is the nature of their actions that showcase that they are not aligned with chaos.
My guy, no matter what INTENTIONS the deldar have (and they are almost solely of the "we do this so that our souls are not consumed by Slaanesh, and because it's the easiest method for us to keep our ways of life" kind), they are actively feeding Slaanesh with the souls of others, so that Slaanesh doesn't just eat theirs.
Yes, they may hate Slaanesh (and Chaos in general, because Commoragh is much closer and vulnerable to the Warp than anywhere else), but they are also Slaanesh's strongest source of power. If their intentions were actually "good" they would all at the very least convert to Craftworld or Exodite life styles. Which they don't and they actively mock them instead.
Therefore Dark Eldar are half a step below being actual unironic Chaos cultists.
And this is a fundamental setting fact and truth. Deldar who keep living in Commoragh and following Commorite practices are literally just coping.

>>98884451
They enjoy making people suffer though

>>98879884
the imperium is entirely justified because the extreme setting it's in justifies all of its cruelty

this doesn't only apply to cruelty, even some otherwise retarded things like worshipping machine spirits are justified because this is a setting where your toaster could be possessed by a demon at any moment

>>98884408
>humans failed to program loyalty into it’s machines
Hell not even that
The humans of DAOT were so despicable even the machines hated them

>>98884480
>falling for in-universe propaganda
The Tau completely and thoroughly debunk near everything an Imperiumbro could ever argue. Everything the Imperium "just has to do for muh survival bruh" - the suppression of technology, superstition, cruelty, genocide, poverty, slavery, and so on - and utterly trampled by the Tau doing the polar opposite and not only surviving, but thriving to the point they have been pushing back the Imperium, gaining more worlds than they lose.

>>98879884
You're a bit missing the point of how fucked up everything is if you deny that the imperium is justified. There's a range of behavior. The necessary cruelties are just that, and further on the cruel end of the spectrum you have the unnecessary abuses, further on the nice end you have the "nice acts that don't fuck everything up." Both are outliers, but people pretend the bad one is the norm and everything could instead be the good one. I think someone pointed out that you didn't really get 40k and you got so asshurt that you made a thread about it.

>>98884490
the tau aren't meaningfully psychic so they can get away with a lot that the imperium can't, their toasters won't ever come alive to strangle them if they don't perform the proper rituals

>>98884496
the Tau have humans, and not just humans but entire races even more psychic than them. still kicking!

>>98884490
The tau are smaller than the Q'orl and only exist by virtue of plot armor by GW because they wanted a tranime faction in the setting.

>>98884499
not in comparable numbers

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>>98884501
>The tau are smaller than the Q'orl and only exist by virtue of plot armor by GW because they wanted a tranime faction in the setting.
They exist because they're easily the most militarily competent faction in the setting. They have proper automation, combined arms warfare, chains of logistics and command, and so forth. There are plenty of factions that do this or that better, but when it comes to military doctrine the Tau really are the best of the best. Even the Necrons are worse; half their technology is very clearly designed with cultural and ritualistic purposes in mind rather than actual military efficacy. Half their vehicles don't even enclose the passenger!
Ironically, despite being called communists Tau military doctrine bears close resemblance to NATO's, while the Imperium seems to be strongly modeled after the Soviet Union

>>98884502
>The race isn't equal in number to the space skaven so it doesn't matter

>>98884513
for the purposes of causing massive warp bullshit, no, it really doesn't matter, you need a huge mass of psychic people for that

>>98884444
Ah yes, just a war here and there. No serious pressure at all...

>The War of the False Primarch 780-860.M33
>The First War of Faith ca. Late M33
>The Howling 401.M34
>Nova Terra Interregnum 401.M34 - 975.M35
>The Pale Wasting ca. Late M34

>>98884508
What stops the Imperium from warping next to the Tau home worlds and virus bombing them?

>>98884520
Planetary defense would obliterate them andleave the imperium open to be murderfucked on 3 fronts simultaneously

>>98884518
>The War of the False Primarch
Yeah bro 11 of the 1000 space marine chapters rebelled against the high lords. However could the imperium endure a threat that could be beaten by three sector warfleets. A war so minor a mere five space marine chapters were tasked with stopping them.
Half the imperium probably didn't even notice this conflict was happening at all.
This is also an example of internal conflict, not an external threat.
>The First War of Faith
An Ecclesiarchal internal conflict. Mostly just the elimination of a radical faction. I am not at all getting the impression it was a huge war. And it is also NOT external pressure, rather just internal conflict.
>The Howling
The first actual external threat. Temporarily disrupted the astronomicon and astropathic communication. It was however swiftly recovered from, and is far from enough to threaten the Imperium's existence.
>Nova Terra Interregnum
Again, an example of internal conflict. If the Imperium had such an event in the modern day it would be folded in a century thanks to the chaotic and alien threats it is currently pressured by, but here it lasted nine centuries and the Imperium recovered just fine afterwards.
>The Pale Wasting
Destroyed a total of eleven space marine chapters. Again, have a sense of scale here. The Imperium has a thousand chapters, and vastly more forces at it's disposal besides. This is a bloody nose at best.
To reiterate my point, the Imperium has had many opportunities at improvement and reform. Whole stretches of history where the only major troubles were caused by internal power struggles. It has had centuries to reform and yet hasn't managed a lick of improvement, and has only slid downhill into decay.
And now it's too late for reform. Now, if the Imperium attempts some radical change, the internal conflict caused would allow the threats gnawing at it's borders to rip it to pieces. The Imperium is a failed state, doomed and damned, and it has itself to blame.

>>98884520
What the other anon said. Virus bombs are also expensive and difficult to produce, and the Imperium wants planets intact to colonize, not destroyed

>>98879884
>pretend that the Imperium is entirely justified
Because central to classic WH40k always was that they were.
>Isn't half the point of the setting
No.
>the Imperium is horrifically cruel, inefficient and self-sabotaging?
Only insofar that it has to be. The tragedy lies in that this is the best we can do, and the hope lies in that every sacrifice is worth it. Also, there are countless worlds that are not engulfed in awful, as per Priestley. We are all just trying our best, fuckwad.

>>98884540
>Because central to classic WH40k always was that they were.
holy mother of secondary
>No.
Anon...
>Only insofar that it has to be
kekaroo!

>>98884543
funny you say that when you're championing secondary opinions

>>98884513
>space skaven
Hrud has nothing to do with this, retard.

>>98884543
Literally all you need to do is crackmooen Rogue Trader and read some Priestley you fucking faggot.

>>98884551
>>98884540
I gave you all the time and energy your comment deserved. This thread has actual discussion about the state of the Imperium and where it has or has not failed. You've just come in two hundred posts late with the absolute nonsense of
>the Imperium is 100% justified!
>why?
>well, because uh... it just is, okay!!!
Give your reasons if you want people to seriously engage with you

>>98884557
he did, you just didn't like them

>>98884548
Rat Hrud dont exist anymore dumbass

>>98884527
>>98884537
Nice blueberry cope. Tau exist by virtue of GW nothing more.

>>98884565
Well let's see
>Because central to classic WH40k always was that they were.
Okay. Why? What evidence do you have for this? And if true, should we take these assumptions and apply them to modern 40k, a setting which has changed greatly?
>Only insofar that it has to be
Okay. Where does it have to be, and why?
>The tragedy lies in that this is the best we can do, and the hope lies in that every sacrifice is worth it
How do you mesh this with the innumerable in-universe depictions of the Imperium's incompetence, evil, and failure? How is, for example, Admiral Vortigern betraying and genociding the Cimmeriac justified, when just five years before they entered a military alliance with him and defeated a Tyranid force alongside him? How is it justified to waste who knows how many lives and resources annihilating a race who just saved countless human lives with their assistance?
>Also, there are countless worlds that are not engulfed in awful, as per Priestley
Why should the existence of worlds where things aren't terrible make us disregard the worlds where they are?
>We are all just trying our best, fuckwad
How do you mesh this with the Imperium being depicted as outright not doing it's best, but engaging in great incompetence and ideology-driven monstrosities?

>>98884579
>Imperiumsissies mad that they can't beat an actual competent military

>>98884580
it has to be for the setting to be internally consistent, the major powers of a setting just doing counterproductive shit for no reason is nothing more than a series of plot holes

>>98884588
that is not an assumption GW seems to share.

>>98884590
it doesn't matter, it's the only meaningful way to analyze a setting without giving up

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>what's that, human boy?
>mad your worlds keep going TAU?
>that they are, perhaps, TAU OWNED?
>this wouldn't happen to make you seethe... would it?

>>98884485
it's humorous how they always seethe about global warming, despite it being a measurable fact.

>>98884593
The imperium doesn't suddenly become better run because the way it canonically runs is stupid and you don't like it.

>>98884605
the way it canonically runs is not stupid, outside of excesses it's actually the best option they have, and even the excesses are a consequence of experience

>>98884608
No, it's pretty rightfully stated by the narrator as stupid, and repeatedly shown to be plumfuck retarded. So much so, that you have to make headcannons to justify things that are simply retarded.

>>98884612
the nice thing about demanding that the setting doesn't have plot holes in your analysis is that your conclusions are automatically not headcanon

>>98884612
>>98884608
And that's not even getting into how it's WRITTEN by stupid people.
What with the tanks that have the range of a thrown rock.

>>98884614
What you are doing right now is making headcannon.

>>98884618
nope, the opposite in fact

>>98884619
Man, this bot broke down fast.
It's kind of hilarious how the only pro-imperium fags are bots.

>>98884622
you're the one who thinks following logic to its conclusion is headcanon, i think you're the bot

>>98884624
>AI hallucinating
lol

>>98884628
i accept your concession

>>98884630
>BEEP BOOP WORDS ARE HARD
lol

>>98884534
Bro you cherry picked and moved the goalposts and still admitted I was right before immediately downplaying it. Get fucked tau fag.

>>98884634
Seethe harder

>>98884408
>"no I am NOT going to read the lore I'm just going to keep up muh heckin assertion I am right because muh ideology says the Imperium is chud-coded so their evil whilst Tau are communist-coded which means they can do no wrong"
Read about the War of Iron. If you actually bother you might notice the little bit about the aliens humanity had been friendly with backstabbing them.
But you won't, because you are just another deranged culture war cunt determined to demoralise anyone that doesn't believe in your virtuous cause or toe the line. Hence, you give tau a glow up despite being as bad or worse than the Imperium.

>>98884679
> Read about the War of Iron
What about this “war of iron”? Where? I’m googling and I’m seeing nothing.
> If you actually bother you might notice the little bit about the aliens humanity had been friendly with backstabbing them
Post it then. An anon has already posted multiple examples of DAoT being genocidal conquerors. Why don’t you post at least one piece of evidence to support you?
> But you won't, because you are just another deranged culture war cunt determined to demoralise anyone that doesn't believe in your virtuous cause or toe the line
This is a warhammer discussion
> Hence, you give tau a glow up despite being as bad or worse than the Imperium
What “glow up”? Have you actually read any stories and bought any codexes or do you just watch memelore YouTubers? The Tau are objectively better on many metrics. For example, quality of life

I want everyone in this thread to note that the Imperiumfags were the first to mention the Tau, and have been the most obsessed with bringing them up since the start of this thread. Utterly mindbroken

>>98884534
>>98884540
>>98884579
This is nothing more than a stealth left culture war thread. The communions have been trying to colonise /tg/ for a few years now, but recent mod changes have let them make major headway. See forcing the lancer thread through and getting detractors banned, lefty shilling staying up whilst any backlash gets deleted, mods only deleting right-wing posts, the sudden explosion of
>"back to /pol/"
Posts for stuff that wouldn't have batted an eyelid before, and threads like this one that are a mix of demorolisation and stealth pro lefty culture war.

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>>98880402
>with the Tau being worse because they try to pretty it up meanwhile they already have a plan to make you like the Poctroon (I know it isnt 100% confirmed but it is odd how an entire race dies out on one planet to a disease meanwhile the Tau seemed to not be affected)

People like to point to the Poctroons as evidence of the Tau being bad and having nefarious intentions for the humans in their empire (but none of the other client species for some reason,) but its worth pointing out that the this was the first client race that the Tau had and they died off over the course of a few generations. Meanwhile over the thousands of years the Tau Empire has existed and after amassing plenty of other client species none has shared the fate of the PocTroon. Why haven't they killed off the Kroot? Why haven't they killed off the Vespid? While it's left ambiguous as whether Poctroon were purposely killed, but since this are two different species it's not unheard for a disease to be deadly to one species while it is harmless to another. For example, Aujeszky’s disease is deadly to pigs, but harmless to humans. To me the most likely scenario is that the Tau unwittingly contaminated the Poctroon and were unable to saved them due to being a fledgling race and inexperienced to dealing with other species at the time. While there are other explanations, it seems like the death of the Poctroon was an accident that that Tau went out of their way to not repeat.

Ironically, the "I'm a human so I support humans" folk would be better off siding with the Tau since the average human would be healthier and better able to deal with their enemies since they'd be eating actual food, drinking water that isn't 50% industrial waste, and not wasting their energy stomping out the planet of minor rando alien #644653. Then again, even with all that there are still some good pro-Imperium arguments. But if they're the best option for humanity, the Tau are a close second.

>>98884508
>the Imperium seems to be strongly modeled after the Soviet Union
That's why the Imperium are the good guys.

>>98884603
Yeah, measured by biased scientists who are in on the global warming conspiracy. There's no right thinking Republican who can reproduce their numbers or results, so it's really obviously a hoax. You just fell for the propaganda anon. Sorry to tell you. Don't ever trust anything a liberal tells you. All they do is lie.

>>98884708
>it cries because it's losing
>keep going, never stop

>>98884732
Cute, but your visas expired and you have to go back

>>98884727
>Seething that the temperature is measurably getting warmer over time
lol

>>98884740
>Newfag seething that he's being shit upon by oldfags
lol

>>98884708
You may be right, kind of weird seeing this board becoming more and more aligned with reddit talking points out of the blue

>>98884788
it's happening but it's not nearly as sudden and intense as 2016 was

>>98880336
The Aliens who were a part of the Human empire betrayed them at their lowest point when they needed their help.

>>98884685
Notice how >>98884679 got quiet all of a sudden

>>98884910
This has already been discussed and debunked in this thread.

>>98884959
>debunked
The only ones worth noting by any specific title were the Alien Slave Traders that blocked off the solar system and kept it locked down. The rest are just mentioned out of hand with no names given or specifics. Next were the parasite xenos which just buttraped the stranded human populace.
More often you get depictions in the reconquest or a homeworld in the Horus Heresy and smaller black library side stories in that time period about what can presumed to be native Ayys on the same world or just next door exploiting humans in some typically grimdark manner. The only logical conclusion of how they weren't wiped out by Mankind before the Age of Strife ever happened is that they were spared.

if you are curious about the more notorious Xenos that aren't Eldar they are right here on reddit for you, where you belong.
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c5j2ne/comment/es26jvd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

The only thing I will say in favor of your PoV is that people who bring up the betrayal tend to ignore that humans turned into warlording fiefdoms just as much as the Ayys did anything, and even joined hand with xenos that isn't just the Interex.

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>>98879884
Many good points itt.

I would add that when people argue about "IS DA IMPERIUM GUUD", they tend to want a Yes or No answer.

Which, while reductivist, also means they can't actually weigh all the facts.
Yes, a lot of Imperial SOP is there for a reason, it sucks, but it's 40k, existence sucks.
Yes, a lot of that suck however, exists because some ambitious but rubbish noble/priest/warlord decided to make a Faustian bargain because "Well the Imperium is really fucking big, so my actions won't have any meaningful impact on it really", and if they put in some effort, things could get better for a good number of people.
But it is also true that even people in positions of power in the setting can be hamstrung by so many factors that it's just not worth it to try exert power to change things.
Yes, the Imperium in m31 sucked in its own ways, but what we see in M41 is not a realistic depiction of the Imperium over the vast majority of its life cycle. There are literal thousands of years of cultural change (decline) involved, about the same time length between us, and the literal Mesopotamians.

But, because people want a 0 or a 1, they pick whichever bit of lore speaks to them the most, find the group allied around that interpretation, and scream it out at everyone else like a horny seagull.
Hence, all the opinions are very absolute, and consensus can't be reached.
Much like many bodies in 40k.

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>>98880713

>>98885065
>Nearly extinct

>>98885065
>Lord Xenos Baby Head Crusher of the Ordo Genocidius
I wish I had that title

The Imperium is anti-trans, that's why troons are so desperate to get people to hate it.

>>98880713
>>98885065
You know considering how inquisition Ordos works he is actually specialized with stopping genocides.

>>98885091
yeah just like the ordo malleus is about making sure hammers no longer exist

>>98885104
I don't get the joke, daemonhammers are just weirdly named power weapons with ancient lost psyker tech. Xenos Baby Headcrusher volunteered to stop genocides and that is why he joined the Ordos.

>>98885122
Does Xenos Baby Headcrusher still get to crush Xeno Baby Heads or is that just a coincidental name?

>>98885122
if the ordo hereticus is about making sure there are no heretics, and if the ordo genocidus is about making sure there are no genocide, then the ordo malleus is about making sure there are no malleuses (or in other words hammers, closer to the word mallet in enlgish, but you get the point)

>>98885127
Yes of course, inquisitors swap Ordos as easily as breathing and some of the more sane and likeable inquisitors wind up going outside their desired job description because every investigation turns out to be something else.

>>98884708
There is a monster in the room. Everyone knows there is a monster there. When you try to point it out, it isn't simply dismissed, nobody just rolls their eyes and waves it off like they would if you said you saw a gnome or an alien. Instead they become extremely agitated and hostile if you even so much as use language that could be interpreted as alluding to the fact that there is a monster there. This is because the moment you acknowledge it, it might come after you. So they are really protecting themselves from the monster by attacking you. This is why people respond the way they do to the truth, instead of acknowledging what the monster itself says every day; Everything is political.

Its impossible for those who haven't yet been so completely demoralized to not see themselves in the Imperium. They're slowly losing because most of humanity is so helplessly terrified of the very monster slowly chewing away at them and their humanity.

>>98880546
Even worse is when they have no theory of mind and believe everyone else has the same opinions.
>You say that the guys I like are evil, but you haven't depicted them as ugly weaklings. This means that you actually agree with them and me, you just can't admit it.
They're vulnerable to propaganda and proud of it.

>>98884746
NTA, but no, the complaints aren't about people claiming temperature is getting warmer, they're about what phenomena this increase in temperature is getting primarily attributed to.

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>>98885163

>>98885184
Clearly I struck a nerve, without even trying to.

>>98885172
who cares what they think. They'll just portray the right wing as science deniers when the real issue is giving power to environmentalists who'll do nothing but abuse said power

If anyone wanted to actually deal with climate issues they'd go after China and India

>>98879884
Because the Imperium is setup to be the main representative of humanity in a grimdark dystopian setting, and as a result of narrative the demands of lore has to justify the reasoning as a result of cause an effect or else it's not logical as a setting. Midwits that try to point out the issues of the Imperium ultimately kill their own arguments because of the demands of cause and effect of the setting as a whole, both in setting and out outside of it, and are usually reddit faggots coasting off of the capeshit waves making the rounds in entertainment media recently, and with 40k becoming more and more mainstream we're an infestation of retards like you who would point at something like Helldivers and say "super erf bad why do you like it?". Am I supposed to root for the mindless bugs? This has been argued to death, but you still won't accept the reasoning. No everyone who likes the Imperium as a faction in this sci-fi fantasy setting is secretly space hitler that wants to turn people into rations. Why aren't we rooting for the space elves or space smurfs? I guess we aren't media literate enough to know that the Imperium.... DOES BAD THINGS! Nothing they do is justified they're as illogical as the Orks or Chaos. If only le' hecking Imperidumbs just stopped being stupid they could have startrek future. Anyone that likes the Imperium is actually heckin' evil! The lore justifications or setting doesn't matter, they did an evilreeno therefore your personal feelings on what you like don't matter! Space Marines are cool? WRONG Space Marines are tortured children who kill aliens for no rasion blah blah blah. If you can't understand this you fundamentally lack something tangible in your brain that lets you imaginatively enjoy a setting without having to autistically scrutinize things that have no bearing on the merits of it.

>>98880998
I was the person who posted that post he was responding to and I'm not even an imperiumfag, I'm just critical of the Eldar in modern lore. I'm a Necron fag but in newer lore they are also unjustifiably stupid. The Silent King especially was better as a background character, him coming back was such a massive mistake. I just hate modern lore in general, it makes every faction come off as retarded, Eldar are just the worst off because we get described how idyllic they were and they fucked it up without much detail on how people with reincarnation and the ability to literally psychically see the consequences of their fuckups still fuck up so massively, and it's even worse because the Necron retcons that I hate basically made them take the role the Eldar had instead of being an order villain race

>>98879884
These are the sloppigs aka the lowest common denominator. They need the setting to be lame and boring otherwise it hurts their pea-brains. You have them to thank for the focus on Marvel superheroes.

>>98885001
> The rest are just mentioned out of hand with no names given or specifics
“They don’t count just because they don’t, okay?!”
> if you are curious about the more notorious Xenos that aren't Eldar they are right here on reddit for you, where you belong.
I find it funny that literally everything listed in that thread is something humanity either does to xenos or to itself. Genocide? Yup. Slavery? For sure. Mind control? What do you think servitors are? Eating people? Corpse starch is yummy!
And I’m sure exterminating every weak and peaceful alien race is absolutely not a surefire way to make sure the only ones that survive are the horrific monsters too strong, too cunning, too advanced, or too fecund for the Imperium to hope to exterminate

>They think of themself as a Good Person™. And they think Space Marines are cool. Since they are a Good Person™, they can't like things that aren't good. So when faced with the naked, monstrous and unnecessary cruelty of the imperium of man, they cope really hard. No see it HAS TO be this way, or else the guys I like are the bad guys, and that doesn't make sense - a Good Person™ like me would not think bad guys are cool. Sometimes you'll get someone with a bit more awareness. They are able to recognize that the setting of 40k is fucked, that it's a universe constantly being made worse by people repeatedly choosing cruelty and violence.This is where you get stage 2 cope. Yes, the Imperium is evil, but you see My Guys are actually the good guys who aren't like the other girls. I play the good guys in the imperium because I am a Good Person™, and the fact that I like them means that they have to be the good guys.
It really is this simple, and this is why I despise them. If you’re too pussy to play an evil empire then leave and do something else.

>>98885637
Who're you quoting?

>>98885643
>>98880546

The biggest thing I’ve learned from this thread is that Imperiumfags are still buckbroken by the Tau even 25 years later.

>>98880546
>>98885637
How is the imperium evil?
I see a lot of people making this claim but they never back it up.
Hell even Servitors have a good reason to exist, I don't see how they're evil

>>98885663
Read the thread

>>98885665
I have and I haven't seen any good reasons that on WHY the imperium is evil.

Also I find it funny how people who usually claim evil/good is subjective can make such claims, but that's besides the point

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So lets go though the reasons as to why the Imperium does what it does

Xenos = not human and their included diversity will lead to ruin. We see what diversity does to countiries and know it would tear the galaxy apart

Abhumans = too far evolved from the humans on earth to be allowed equal rights, or else they will taint humanity and division between different humans will begin again

Psykers = need to be used as fuel or humanity will die. Not only that they're extremely dangerous and if they don't have good control over their abilities will summon daemons

Heretic = self explanatory

>>98885143
>inquisitors swap Ordos as easily as breathing
They certainly do not. Changing ordos is a significant bureaucratic workload across bad communication channels in an uncertain universe that also cuts and restricts built up ties and affiliations. It rarely happens and is often seen as a betrayal, go read some books.

>>98880719
I don't really get the point you're trying to make here, anon. Is the argument "oh but the Tau are bad too" because yeah, it's 40k. Every single empire of bastards is evil.

>>98882082
holy shit this is so tryhard

>>98886911
wdym

>>98879884
Because modern audiences are only capable of clapping and cheering for clearly defined good guys. So if they like the Imperium they have to 100% good.

>>98886961
the "modern audience" thinks that evil and good are subjective.

>>98886982
Most imperium fans are objective morality people. And usually get into arguments with eachother over their disagreements about morality.

>>98886982
On paper. Defacto a lot of the "morality is subjective" crowd will not apply that to it's logical conclusion. 9/10 will always treat racism, homophobia, nazism/fascism, *actual controversial take that goes against status quo* as evil

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>>98887001
I'm a chaos daemon guy so I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's just that right wing people who prefer the imperium of man understand the situation they're in and how they're good guys.

Leftists are incapable of seeing anything that's not their version of a utopia as evil. They'll see the "don't ally with xenos" shit as inherently evil when it's just a necessary evil to keep on ensuring good continues to exist.

Honestly I know way more about chaos than the imperium but that's how I see it

>>98887032
The Imperium is their right wing utopia in my experience.

>>98887032
I'm right wing and I see the Imperium as one of the good guys, but I think the same for Craftworld Eldar, Votann and Tau. They are all very flawd, but are good in the context of the universe compared to everyone else.They actually have some noble goals and reason to fight and are not just there to cause destruction and missery for the sake of it.

>>98887039
You are an idiot

>>98887039
honestly not "utopia" but a good way to see how the right wing view the world. They know we live a brutal existence and that means you sometimes have to be brutal.
I'm honestly surprised more leftist don't dive into chaos though. If you go by older fluff chaos gods aren't inherently evil and have positive aspects. A fuck ton of it is based on real world occultism which the left fucking love, for fucks sake Tzeentch is just an evil Thoth.

>>98887051
You can’t scroll Warhammer twitter without seeing it

>>98887066
> A fuck ton of it is based on real world occultism which the left fucking love
Look, I'm not going to say that there aren't leftists who like occultism. Of course there are. But to act like occultism is something that's wildly popular with leftists is something you'd say only if you're deranged, running entirely off of bullshit, or have met a tiny pocket of people and applied it too broadly. Your median leftist will look at anyone talking about occultism, leftist or otherwise, and see a raving cook.

>>98884520
GW's bottom line

>>98884540
>Because central to classic WH40k always was that they were.
No they weren't.
Kill yourself you fucking tourist.

The truth is a lot of justifications and actions regarding the Imperium exist solely to keep the setting grimdark. It's not that complex.

>>98885219
China at least verbally aknowledge climate change is an issue, and works on it (they are making electric cars for themselves, not just to sell them, for example), though they aren't willing to destroy their economy with poorly considered unrealistic plans with dubious results to do it. Prosperity first (though they are fucked for other reasons, like demographic decline), climate second.

>>98887066
Thoth has always been Evil, his emerald tablets is just a retelling of the bible but the fallen angels and satan are the good guys. Oh and burning in fire is totally okay, bro. I would say Tzeentch is a more pro-active Thoth.

>>98887187
Anyone that uses the term tourist is a bad faith fuckwit trying to accuse their enemy of what they're doing

>>98885620
>“They don’t count just because they don’t, okay?!”
When you aren't given anything but a footnote, then you only have a footnote. Reading about the Emperor's time uniting the technobarbarians on Earth with his Custodes and the transition from the Thunder Warriors to the Astartes, there is virtually no significance given to the alien species that lived in the original human owned territory with them (or lived right next to them).

>And I’m sure exterminating every weak and peaceful alien race is absolutely not a surefire way to make sure the only ones that survive are the horrific monsters too strong, too cunning, too advanced, or too fecund for the Imperium to hope to exterminate
The idea that the Imperium was extermination happy is because the current "modern" institutions vaguely resemble the 30k ones but humans and space marines alike left a lot of alien races alone if they were harmless and not hostile. It wasn't until the Horus Heresy that peaceful aliens like the Adarnians were only given this kind of treatment during the Horus Heresy or shortly before that point.
The Horus Heresy isn't just some footnote, it is the collapse and deathknell of the Imperium as they permanently fall from grace.

>>98887479
>, there is virtually no significance given to the alien species that lived in the original human owned territory with them (or lived right next to them).
Nigger they had to liberate the moons of jupiter from xenos enslavers.