What's the point of having Bard in your party when you can have Dancer instead?
Bard shouldn't be a class. Congratulations, you're a shitty rogue/caster hybrid with a lute and commitment issues, go fuck yourself.
>>98908715>>98908682Bard should be split between Paladin, Cleric and Rogue tbdesu.The entire theming is incredibly half assed and a lot of its abilities would be better in the hands of dedicated leadership and support classes.
>>98908715in e2 they used to have unique buffs though songs i also think one subclass had swordsinging they also used INT instead of CHA
>>98908682>the most nogame kind of threadThe books explicitly say the bard could be a dancer or actor and aren't the literally definition of "bard". This is true with all the classes. Monks are meant to represent the archetype a fantasy kung fu monk fills, but they don't need to be chinese or religious. The bard class are a charisma based class with a type of magic triggered by a performance. They could be doing a standup routine.
>>98908735>Monks are meant to represent the archetype a fantasy kung fu monk fillsThen why do they suck so much?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5JqPxmYhlo
>>98908682Corporate wants you to tell the differences between those 2 pictures.> Dancer> Bard with Perform (Dance)......They're the same picture.
>>98908682>what is a Geisha
>>98908747They're MAD? Their kit has abilities that compete with each other instead of complementing? They're an hybridization of two martials in a ruleset that favors spellcasting?
>>98908735What are Rangers supposed to be?
>>98908682
>>98908682Because DM said twerking isn’t a valid way to channel a spell
>>98908776Rogue but even more homeless
>>98908682As of 5.5, Dancer is a subclass of Bard (arguably one of the best since it's just a better monk).
>>98908776Aragorn.
>>98908773>They're MAD?Being MAD isn't actually a bad thing. If anything it should be the norm. What is the issue is when you have MAD classes in a game with Single Attribute Dependent classes and then have point buy and array being the primary character stat generation methods.
>>98908747because people are cowards. The inspiration for the name and main concept is shaolin monks, but unlike bards they're not allowed to venture too far out of the kung fu movie archetype. DnD spinoffs and shit get this, but for the core classes there's a fear of losing the definition if you stray too far.With bards people get that, because our modern definition of bard is more often influenced by DnD than apart from it, while monk has way more keeping it fixed in place. It needs to be set free and become the a more flexible martials arts class without the baggage of fake eastern mysticism. But to do that they'd need a new name. And people would throw a fit about that.
>>98908776They range. As in, they're about knowing the terrain, what lives in it, how to survive it, and how to hunt in it. What shape all of that takes depends on the setting. A pirate with expert navigation skills would be a ranger, a street smart noir detective would be a ranger.
>>98908901Also a severe case of certain Attributes being more versatile than others, especially in regards to Saving Throws.
>>98908933Range what? Spell-Casters and Rogues are the Ranged classes.
>>98908776Wholesome fighter for girls (friend of animals) or less wholesome fighter for girls (you just know).
>>98911941"to range" is archaic expression kinda like "to trap" which originally didn't used to mean crossdressing
>>98908877Ranger fails at representing Aragorn because Aragorn is an obvious Paladin thematically and all his abilities are things Paladins do.
>>98914047That's nonsense. There's nothing paladin about him.>>98911941>>98908776you idiots here need to google shit before acting confused. To range is to roam or wander over a wide area. If you look up what ranger means outside of DnD you get someone who patrols and protects a forest or wilderness. But that's based on a more modern definition. The fucking army has rangers.Take all of that together with what DnD gives rangers in their kit and you get "the guy who knows the area and how to travel/survive/hunt in it".
>>98914123>The fucking army has rangers.Mostly because "the part of regular army that fights using guerilla tactics walking tightrope between creative out of the box thinking in the field and (not) committing warcrimes" is too many words for a jarhead to remember.
>>98908682Because Tolkien had a lot of singing fat short assholes and not "Shantae, the frisky exotic dancer from the East."Well, not publicly. Im sure in the dirt between France and German there is an absolute banger book where Frodo is kidnapped by a Saromon allighpned stripper that picks him up in her enormous buttcrack and runs off.
>>98908747Because Kung fu action hinges on the idea of precision and ,artial prowess through self improvement and practice.None of that is in D&D.
>>98908682>insteadFalse dichotomy, you can get both and have them perform ensemble.
>>98914173That's a good point. How would you remake monks to be like that? Should they be practicing while the wizard prepares their spells? How do you represent that mechanically?
>>98914047Balls. The Ranger class is literally modelled on Aragorn.
>>98914385>he's called a ranger because he does the duties of a real world ranger before joining the party>the class was based off of and named after him specifically>there's nothing at all resembling a paladin about him or what he doesthat anon is just a fucking clown.
>>98908682I have a bit of a hard time taking bards (or dancers) seriously for a few reasons>i find it silly to have a dude singing or dancing in the middle of the combat>most people play bard in annoying way where they have to try and flirt with every single NPC>expanding on the previous point, some players try too hard to steal the scene when playing as bards.That being said, it's a classic class, I don't think it should be removed. It's just not for me.>>98908728It should still be INT for most of his spells. The point of the bard is that he is a bit of a jack of all trades. He can choose to do a bunch of different stuff. If he wants to focus more on spells, he should focus more on intelligence and gathering scrolls, instead of just having one attribute do everything magic-wise.Charisma should increase some stuff like his bardic songs and some buffs/debuffs.
>>98914047>Aragorn is an obvious PaladinI don't see it. He doesn't heal or smite or turn undead or is even anything that resembles the concept of a 'holy warrior'. He is just a good guy that fights and knows his way through the wilderness
>>98914407The bard was originally a super adventurer based on idealized celtic bards (in the same way paladins were based on idealized knights in shining armor). In its original incarnation, you had to already be at least double digit levels to qualify as a bard, and as a result all bard characters were very powerful.
>>98914407people play the bard like that because it's a cliche and they think they're funny or else think that's "the way". People confuse charisma with how a person acts, when it's about how a person is seen. So they act annoying, which is uncharismatic. A good way to play bard and break the cliche is to make them the grounded serious one. They might play songs, they might recite poetry and have a romantic heart, but they're not yapping and flirting nonstop. That's more in character for an artist.
>>98914437>>98914464I agree, but for real, literally EVERY single bard player I've ever seem seems to think they HAVE to play the stereotypical modern version of the bard. Gives me conniptions.About charisma, I've always seen it as a mix of your own self-confidence, your capacity to inspire confidence in others, to make people trust and believe you, and to some extent your likeability. But having charisma is different from acting like a douche or a jackass.
>>98908682>It's literally in the books that you can have your bard be a dancer>their performance is whatever shit you want and includes dancingit's like every week the shitpost threads like these make it more and more obvious they don't play games. What's next? "Why have a fighter in your thread when you can have a polearm guy"? "Why have a cleric when you can have a priest"?
>>98914520I just think people look at charisma backwards and get hungup on specific things about the person, when it's about how they're perceived. Confidence, faux confidence, both can make a person seem charismatic. Someone able to manipulate others into liking them, or someone whose genuine kindness makes them likable, both result in charisma. Good looks can factor, but good looks can't carry an ugly attitude. So in a game charisma is practically like a magic radiating off the person, and the cause of it is flavor text. And I've played the good type of bard. It was my first ever game. My friend ran a pathfinder game and I played a grumpy middle aged halfling bard. He was serious and no nonsense. The idea was always that if he was talking it was to distract and hold someone's attention. We were all new to these games and I joined three sessions in, but I felt I caught on to how the game worked quick while they were all still unsure. They were all martials who stood around like they didn't know what to do with their hands when not holding a sword. I kept having to pull them along on a leash, do the thinking more than talking, acknowledge the puzzle the GM put in front of us instead of standing against the back wall awkwardly like a guy wishing a girl would ask them to dance at homecoming. Everyone was too awkward and unsure of how to play and especially how to roleplay, and I used my character to project my frustration with that fact.
>>98908682>Dancer
>>98908793>twerking isn’t a valid way to channel a spellMy sides
>>98908682It's too early for Christmas and one reindeer isn't enough for an entire class.
>>98914262monks are supposed to represent shaolin monks, not martial artists in general.Well if you wanna make them martial artists and fix them you just need to give them a martial art that gains techniques you can use as you level up the same way that casters gain spells
>>98908747In 5e? You're playing 5e wrong. It's based around 6 to 10 encounters and a short rest after every 2 to 3. Monks should have their resources pretty much every fight compared to casters.In older editions? They were designed badly. Really badly. 3.PF had that ivory tower design while 2e and before were deliberately unbalanced. In 4e everything is balanced, but it's 4e. In PF2, they're fine, but PF2 is bad.In other RPGs? L5R has cool monks, but L5R is such a slow system. Not crunchy, just slow. Systems aren't supposed to take you out of the RP.
>>98914644Woah shes defeating that Bandit Warlord with her dancing skills!!!
>>98914161>Im sure in the dirt between France and German there is an absolute banger book where Frodo is kidnapped by a Saromon allighpned stripper that picks him up in her enormous buttcrack and runs off.Feels more like a Merry and Pippin lark.
>>98908776Ranger is the Aragorn class. Although Gygax himself was much more a Conan guy and didn't actually care much for LOTR, the people he played with were and their influence is felt is stuff like race-as-class for Elf and Dwarf which are the designated "okay fine you can be Legolas or Gimli" options. Ranger is straight up based on Strider. The minor spellcasting was because of Aragorn's healing hands. Later on the D&D ranger would become its own thing, especially since their magical powers got more and more emphasized as the years went on to now they're actually 1/2 casters who top out at 5th level spells. But at its core the basic fantasy is "I want to be Aragorn" which evolved into "I want to be Drizzt"
