Am I supposed to believe that the only difference between plate mail and leather armor is that it has a 30% less chance of hitting? And that a slashing weapon does the exact same damage to both if it hits?
>>98931145>Am I supposed to believe that the only difference between plate mail and leather armor is that it has a 30% less chance of hitting?No. You are supposed to accept that a game will require a certain level of abstraction to be functional as a game and then play one that suits you.
Wait until you find out about hit points.
Am I supposed to believe that a character needs to be able to lift 390 pounds minimum to properly lift and use a 2d6 greatsword (which itself weighs 6 pounds) without disadvantage, and that said greatsword will do 2d6 damage to anyone wearing plate DESPITE being a SLASHING weapon which plate explicitly COUNTERS - while anyone from a child to an 8 foot tall Brock Lesnar clone can effectively wield a 10 pound greatclub but even if they themselves have the strength to lift 600 pounds they can at most do 1d8 damage to anyone wearing plate DESPITE the club being BLUDGEONING damage.Turns out a bunch of fantasy gamebooks written by DYEL nerds whose hands have never once touched a barbell or slammed into another's face and whose only frame of reference for violence is solely shit they've seen in movies and anime are going to have really stupid and nonsensical rules about combat. Whodathunkit?
>>98931150>You are supposed to accept that a game will require a certain level of abstraction to be functional as a gameAll right, then nobody should be making retarded accents and spending hours talking about nothing while the other players are forced to listen or find something else to do, nor should the person running the "game" delay it with a bunch of exposition that should have been included in the game's challenges already.
>>98931180The best thing that could ever happen for tabletop gaming is for the moronic simulationists to all go larp the most realistic tactical melee combat possible. With the sharpest fucking swords and a complete lack of access to medicine.
>>98931145AC and Hit Points aren't just how well crafted the armor is and how many cuts you can take. Theyre abstractions of your reflexes, luck, magical shields, divine blessings, endurance, tenacity, and blood loss. Just chill and have it be what your character needs.
>>98931461Please don't tell em about Battletech, we're still trying to shed the 40k refugees.
>>98931461Simulationism doesnt mean realism. Unfortunately its already been coined by a self-important retard to mean>Simulationism heightens and focuses Exploration as the priority of play. The players may be greatly concerned with the internal logic and experiential consistency of that Exploration.Essentially, a simulationist wants a deep and comprehensive RP experience of "being" that thing. They only want a realistic experience if they're simulating real life or historical fiction- a simulationist conan game would behave like a conan book. A simulationist D&D would behave how D&D is fluffed to behaveAnyway you're retarded
>>98931145OP is so up his own ass he's splitting hairs about AC when HP is right there, not being realistic at all. Nothing else in this thread matters. It's all moot. Complaining any other game mechanic is unrealistic before HP means they're fake and don't play games.
>>98931437In no shape or form does this incoherent babble follow from the post you replied to.
Realismfags got called smart for accurately recounting a Wikipedia entry in class once and they're still trying to recapture that feeling.
Realismfags have NEVER recovered from this.
>>98931516Learn how to read.If abstractions can be made for mechanics, they can be made for storyshit and theaterfaggotry too.
>>98931511But we dont want to discuss HP, we want to discuss AC. If you want to make a HP thread noone is stopping you
>>98931535You know purple dye is extremely available right? You use blueberries
>>98931539No you don't want to discuss AC, the premise of the thread is that it's unrealistic. Which is nonsense. It's a game mechanic to add complexity and further strategy to combat, not realism. so kill yourself faggot, this thread is for OP to nogame shitpost about a game mechanic from a game he doesn't even play or understand. There is no pretense of it actually being about AC.
>>98931536That doesn't logically follow, and you have to seriously torture the word 'abstraction' to even pretend it applies.
>>98931536>unironically says storyshitting>talking about abstractions being used as game mechanicsWhat's this retarded third worlder even trying to say?
>>98931145>>98931486if you wanted an actual alternative and not just slopposting pillars of eternity had separations between chance to hit (with grazes doing .5x and crits doing 1.5x damage) and damage reduction based on armor type (with specific dr higher or lower for each damage type per armor)
>>98931437Fucking retarded spammers with their word salads.
>>98931554>It's a game mechanic to add complexity and further strategy
>>98931608Cool but i dont really need a videogame implementation. Anything analogue?
>>98931694>trying too hard to be pretentious about a DnD mechanic to cope with being called out as a nogame faggothey this is just an idea, but maybe you should actually kill yourself.
>>98931536Like I said, your retarded opinion doesn't logically follow from that anon's assertion.You're just lashing out for some reasons I don't care to discern.
>>98931145Shortening combat rounds to 6 or less seconds and attack rolls being described as single actions has always been a very bad use of dnd combat. It has never been a single swing of the sword, missing has never been not connecting physically, most humans are just not smart enough to imagine a 10 second combat being a series of movements and instead have to imagine it as at best a sort of moving single picture. >>98931180These too.
>>98931437There's absolutely no valid chain of logic that could take the post you replied to as the premise and arrive at that conclusion. I mean, you absolutely can prefer to focus on the game aspect and skip the theatrics, that's fine, but that's got nothing to do with the fact that games require some degree of abstraction to work.
>>98931145Armor class descends from old D&D and from chainmail, it didn’t actually have ‘full plate” because it’s inspired by earlier medieval armors, the plate armor referred to something more like half-plate and that was meant to be the heaviest end of the scale.The earliest versions of heavier plate (“field plate” iirc) actually included rules for damage reduction in addition to having even better armor class.
>>98931145>dndwait until you learn that a malnourished weakling with a -2 strength modifier has a roughly 20% chance of winning a test of strength against a hulking man-god with a strength modifier of +5
>>98931834>weird scenario where it sounds like both the GM and players are terrible at the game.OP is talking about some weird fake shit because he hasn't played games before, but it sounds like you should just play with different people.
>>98931145good news there are games besides D and D and manyof them have more realistic rules for armor. GURPS! BRP! HERO!Savage worlds! all use armor as damage reduction and don't use armor class!THE HOBBY IS SAVED!
>>98932120you're missing the point, OP wants to performatively be mad at a game mechanic he doesn't understand in order to show everyone how much he disapproves of DnD. If you just suggest other systems that won't let him show us how cool and contrarian he is.
>>98931437>well if the physics of a real suit of armour is too complex to simulate accurately multiple times a turn then (bunch of unrelated schizo nonsense)
>>98931849>just house rule all the retarded shit and it's a good game!Or just not play D&D...
>>98933258no one mentioned house ruling. That post said your GM sucks. If you think the shit your GM is doing is what's in the books I got news for you: even DnD isn't that retarded.
>>98931145Sometimes I wonder how people this retarded can function
>>98931696https://d1079ywfijtdjs.cloudfront.net/deadfire/media/downloads/eternity-pen-and-paper-guide--alpha.pdfim not spoonfeeding you more than this anon
>>98931834He only has a chance if your DM is literally retarded. Any tasks that are trivially easy or literally impossibly hard are supposed to just auto succeed or fail. The obsession with making everything a check is Reddit brainrot.
>>98931145Rarely does HYTNPD&D actually apply as a suggestion, but this is one of those cases
>>98931735It seems like the shift to attacks representing single actions was to bring melee in line with ranged and magical attacks. This seems like the wrong direction to have changed though, if there was a widely acceptable way to abstract quivers and spell slots in d&d to fit the idea of combat being made up of multiple back and forth maneuvers and actions each turn the whole system would make more sense.
>>98931145AC has it's problems, but I think it's still the best hit resolution mechanic. Going from Cyberpunk with all it's tables and opposed rolls back to a d20 system really made me appreciate the simplicity of AC.
>>98934263They both have their strengths. Ive found cyberpunk is much quicker and coherrent for one on one or small scale fights, since even with opposed rolls it can be over in a turn or two. D20 feels better for simulating large group fights because you arent held up calculating cover or dodges for a half dozen combatants a turn.
>>98931145Used to be that you had around a 55% chance (10+ on a D20) of hitting an unarmoured opponent in 1st ed AD&D, dropping to around 10% to 5% (19 or 20) if they were wearing plate with a shield. It also had mods from weapon type, so a fighter would pull out a mace or hammer for use against plate, leaving blades for use against lighter and softer armoured foes. That seemed pretty reasonable then. If whatever version or system you are using today doesnt seem as reasonable, just fucking change it back, you mong.
>>98931145>>98931214
>>98931145>>98931815Also AD&D 1e does the big stupid chart where different weapons get different bonuses or penalties against various kinds of armor. That was 47 years ago. What I’m saying is you’re standing right at the base of the D&D autism spiral acting like you’re the first person to see it.
>>98934262>, if there was a widely acceptable way to abstract quivers and spell slots in d&d to fit the idea of combat being made up of multiple back and forth maneuversRanged attacks are trying to line up a direct shot while everyone is trying to fight each other in close proximity, which is a lot harder to do than mass fire arc at groups in a field and a lot harder to do. Spells take time to cast and are intricate rituals not snap your fingers, and should be either happening last or in initiative segment if you're one of those. Done.
>>98931145Rolemaster exist for you if this is really what you and your group want. It was created back at the beginning of TTRPGs for people who liked the idea of D&D but wanted to prioritize weapon and armor interaction simulation in combat. Growing into its own entire chart centric RP system. It has continued to have revisions and updates the years. Not only do you have individual charts for each weapon vs. each armor type, it impacts both damage numbers as well as type and severity additional wound effects from criticals.
>>98931145There are other games, retard. Don't bitch about something you choose to subject yourself to.
>>98931150fippy bippy /thread
