Why are there no good Demons in 40k besides the eldar gods(kinda)? You would think some of the warp critters wouldn't be malevolent and some of the undivided furies would be made of good vibes and like the people they met kinda like Genie here. There are good gods in whfb right? Did 40k just get so miserable all the non evil things in the warp got eaten?
>>98948557because they wouldnt call them demons if they are goodthe name is descriptive, not prescriptive, so benevolent warp entity would not be named a demon even if it shares the same origin as one
>>98948557Besides the watchers I can't really think of anything that might qualify
>>98948564FPBPalso because the daemons ate all the benevolent spirits, that was fairly explicit I thought
>>98948557>Did 40k just get so miserable all the non evil things in the warp got eaten?Mostly this.All non-chaos human belief goes into feeding the warp-entity aspect of the Emperor. Celestine is essentially a Daemon of the Emperor.
>>98948557>Did 40k just get so miserable all the non evil things in the warp got eaten?pretty much. The Warp is a psychic reflection of the souls/emotions of those living in realspace. It's original condition is described as a pretty tranquil, chill place (you can find this in Old Ones lore), but it got gigafucked during the War in Heaven, and never really recovered. There are entities in there that aren't wholly evil, though. There's the Greater Good goddess formed recently by the Tau auxilaries, the Astronomicon (though dude has a real body), Living Saints and to a much lesser degree regular Sororitas draw their power from belief so that maybe counts, the surviving Eldar gods, maybe? But I don't know Eldar lore. Also not sure if all the collective belief has ever been described as working any change on Big E, but it sure should.
>>98948557>Why are there no good Demons in 40kGork & Mork are pretty great if you're an Ork.
>>98948557>"Good Demons"This is why I fucking hate tourist fag activists. They think demons are their furry tumblr OCs and supernatural kink shit. I mean look at getting off on Hazbin Hotel and all. They have to be good in everything.
>>98948699the irony in calling things tumblr while being triggered
>>98948557The warp, like everything else in 40k, is a fundamentally retarded concept. The Chaos Gods are all supposed to be fed by the emotions of creatures but the writers totally ignore how positive emotions vastly outweigh negative ones in sentient creatures. Humans for example, feel optimism and hope the most strongly out of any emotion. If we didn't most of us would off ourselves within a decade or two of gaining sentience. Humans have an endless well of delusional hope at almost all times. People go into work because they are convinced society will reward them for their labor and that the banks won't collapse in spite of everyone doing their job. Nobody thinks they're going to die until they are weeks or moments away from death and even then most humans will think they can live in they just run to the back of the crashing plane or climb up the rocks away from the lava or they'll beat the cancer. Humans smoke cigarettes and inject meth and drive cars and fuck without condoms because they truly believe nothing bad can or will happen to them due their unfounded optimism. So if 40k were a coherent setting, the strongest God in the warp would be the God of Hope, because that's clearly the emotion most sentient species feel in the setting. If they didn't, they would simply succumb to Chaos immediately or wipe themselves out.
The Watchers are sort of "good" warp creatures. Although they're not really "daemons". Them and the Enslavers are "Warp Natives", aliens who evolved naturally in highly stable regions of the Warp universe rather than being born from the souls of humans and other lifeforms in normal space.
>>98948748this is, in-universe, because the chaos gods were empowered by the birth of slaanesh which permanently skewed the warp towards the negative side
>>98948748There's an argument that all the gods are powered by forms of hope.>If I kill everything I win everything (or at least become so single minded about it I won't care).>If I just do what feels good, everything will be fine.>Well, shit's fucked, sit back, enjoy the ride, and you might come out on top. Why stress it?>If I can find the right string to pull, I'll win.
>>98948557because good vibes and positive emotions make poor raw materials for daemons; think that chaos daemons are mostly made up of destructive emotions like wrath or despairArguably things like living saints or the legion of the damned are might be "imperial daemons" because of the warpiness involved, but that isn't confirmed so whatevs>>98948699calm ye tits, christcuck. Eudaemons (literally "good demons/spirits") are a thing in 40k, although they're Abnett's thing and also not literal daemons. Conceptually they're a thing but only in a pretty niche part of the lore, I'll admit, but still a thing nonetheless>>98948748>the writers totally ignore how positive emotions vastly outweigh negative ones in sentient creaturesnot in 40k
>>98948862Dude, I'm atheist but I get the fucking point of fucking demons. Also Eudaemons aren't demons but daemons.That's like when you have Sisters of Battle and still have activists whine for female Space Marines. The lore says they don't exist but there something that's basically the same thing if you want to go there.
>>98948593>it got gigafucked during the War in Heaven, and never really recovered.This is pretty much the fundamental problem with the 40kverse.Everyone says 'Oh if only everyone was nice™ then maybe things would work out for them' but the reality is that when they say 'There is only War', that's been the case since before any playable race existed.The Old Ones left a giant imprint of their balls on reality itself and everyone else is just stuck living in the crater.
Aren't those Saints the SoB summon essentially daemons?
>>98948920It's almost like it's a setting for a wargame first, in which there needs to be justification for any and all factions to fight each other, including allied ones.
>>98948557Warhammer's metaphysics are lifted from Moorcock's fantasy world, so everything must suck and everybody must be an asshole because being a vapid cynical nihilist is meaningful or something.
>>98948699Gigamelty holy moly
>>98948593>the surviving Eldar gods, maybe? But I don't know Eldar lore.Ceogorach is stuck in library clown town, so hes technically outside the warp and will probably never go backIsha is in the warp, but she may or may not be mindbroken by nurgle at this point so its not really clear if shes actually curing the diseases in rebellion or just perpetuating the eternal cycle of decayKhaine got his back blown out so hard that he only exists in realspace as fragments and needs to be fed an (empowered and attuned) eldar soul to manifest temporarily. He was also never really "good", he was always an assholeAsuryan sublimated himself to empower the eldar race psychically rather than be eaten, so his soul is still kind of out there amalgamating in the infinity circuits of the craftworldsYnnead isnt real yet and is an assholeTechnically speakingTechnicallySlaanesh is an eldar god. Shes active in the warp, but you dont really want his attention
>>98948921>>98948588No they aren't.Imperius is a demon.The manifestations within the Firetide are demons.Living Saints are, as the name implies, genuinely alive. They're like any generic Space Marine the Great Four have taken a liking to and decided to respawn. Lucius is the most well known for that but it can happen to anyone who is considered sufficiently interesting, martial and devoted.The Warp is used to reconstitute them but afterwards they're material beings with all the drawbacks and advantages (such as not immediately decohering when sufficiently strong Null fields are in effect or being able to cruise around without there needing to be a Warp Storm) that brings.
>>98948557>>98948748>love and friendshipSlaanesh>honor and prideKhorne>knowledge and learningTzeentch>mercy and patience Nurgle The four arent evil because they are devoid of virtue, in fact they have infinitely more good in them than any imperial saint, quite literally, they are evil because they are totalizing principles from an alien dimension in which time, space and logic dont apply. They are inherently incapable of practicing the phronesis that makes virtues good in the first place. For example, love. Love, whether romantic or platonic, at its most essential is the abolition of boundaries between two beings. They become closer, emotionally, intellectually and physically. The ultimate expression of love is sex or at least a kiss, the literal unison between two bodies. But importantly, love also contains respect for the other. To love somebody means to respect their choices, whatever boundary they dont want crossed. Slaanesh cannot accept this. It knows more of love and has experienced it in an infinite magnitude beyond comprehension, but it cannot comprehend why you would ever stop desiring the beloved. Every boundary has to be destroyed, the beloved has to be experienced and felt from every angle under every possible circumstance until there is nothing left separating lover and beloved. This is how love becomes possession and finally consumption, by separating it from any prudence that makes it desirable. The same applies to the other three, they take something good and carry it to its purest, ultimate expression free of any restraints. The Chaos gods arent the antithesis to virtue, they are its monstrous perfection.>no good Demons in 40k besides the eldar gods(kinda)?First of all they are daemons, not "demons", second the "eldar" gods arent warp beings, they were simply the gods of the cosmos.
>>98948557Because the lore is just there to justify the grimderp, not to make internal sense or be coherent.
>>98948557There were good and neutral and evil (seperate to Chaos) in WF1-3E. So theoretically in Rogue Trader/40K 1E.But that era is gone.
>>98948557Jeannie in this series is a curse set upon the Major to torment him by making his life more miserable in every way.
>>98948748None of the things you describe are due to positive emotions, it's all just fear and lack of forethought.
>>98948748>So if 40k were a coherent setting, the strongest God in the warp would be the God of HopeIt is. The emperor is holding back 4 chaos gods directly focused on taking him out. Humans have made the God of the Greater Good in what? 1-2 hundred years tops? Eldar have Ynnead who's entire deal is a hopeful suicide and rebirth pact to defeat their greatest enemy. All worshippers of chaos, aware or not, are hoping for personal advancement, rewards and aspirations. Even Orks are always looking forward to a good scrap.
>>98949341A woman?
>>98948576It was, OP is just a nogames shitstirrer.
>>98949607I play games My oathmark back log of grey is immense
>>98949341No he's just a moralfag retard who makes having a reality warping sex pet into a disability by his refusal to put her to good use.
>>98948557>You would think some of the warp critters wouldn't be malevolent and some of the undivided furies would be made of good vibes>t. about to be eaten by warp entities for his ignorance
>>98949893If you watch the show sequentially it makes sense. He has a fiance and Genie ruins his engagement to try to steal him after refusing to leave. She does some horrendous shit to him time to time out of spite that makes his fear and annoyance justified
>>98949919And yet he puts a baby in her. Curious!
>>98948748>The Chaos Gods are all supposed to be fed by the emotions of creatures but the writers totally ignore how positive emotions vastly outweigh negative ones in sentient creatures.>>98948920>The Old Ones left a giant imprint of their balls on reality itself and everyone else is just stuck living in the crater.>>98948922>It's almost like it's a setting for a wargame first, in which there needs to be justification for any and all factions to fight each other, including allied ones.>>98949012I mean you can still have BENEVOLENT Chaos, just have them be bat-shit crazy!
>>98949919She is annoyed and spiteful because he doesn't properly utilize her.I did forget about the fiancee that's fair I guess but the rest of the show he created his own problems imo.
>>98950039properly utilize her? She is literally a BPD demon who stalks him and sabotages all his personal relationships to make herself the center of his life.Imagine it from his perspective, you are a 30 something year old man with a life and great ambition being an astronaut and all. Its the 60s so you have smashed more puss than Genghis Khan and are about to have a politically convenient marriage that will probably make you a five star general one day or a senator. Then a reality warping demon ruins it all because she thought you were sexy and ruins it all. Sabotages everything you built to keep you captive. thats I dream of genie. We just see it from her perspective because she is the protagonist.
>>98950199And suddenly none of that matters because I have a reality warping concubine.Politically convenient marriage? My job? Lmao. I have a genie these are normie problems. If I want to be politically connected I could be president or god emperor of earth. If I want to go to space I can have a place on the moon.
>>98950246I don't think the time line of the show is ridiculous. Genie ruins his engagement in the first year, they are kinda jealous roommates for another year, then they are together. I don't think I'd rush into a relationship with a psychotic entity quickly either.
>>98948962>Lucius is the most well known for that but it can happen to anyone who is considered sufficiently interesting, martial and devoted.Lucius a demon meme virus that hijacks anyone who takes pride in killing the previous active host.
>>98948557You have literally ALL of the demons from mythology to close from and fight. It is assumed that people into 40k know the western canon at least somewhat well since so much of warhammer's fluff is built through implication. For example the Grey Knights fortress monestary is on Titan. This is because all the demons of the goetea are supposedly trapped inside the black hexagon on the north pole of Saturn and they are guarding against Saturn.
>>98950433I'm going off memories of Nick at Night from a long ass time ago so I defer on the timeline.I just remember even as a kid I was like "bro wtf is wrong with you?"I felt the same way about Darren from Bewitched. Like bro your wife is a reality warper and you're complaining about it.
>>98950640Darren always seemed worse, like he wanted Sam to be less. Major is just sick of her nonsense
An inquisitor finds Genie, wat do
>>98948748>God of HopeThat's Tzeentch
>>98952567Yeah.It's the lynchpin of all his cruelest betrayals.>Hey mortal>Psst, Mortal>Wanna resurrect your dead relatives?>Enlarge your reproductive organs?>Win the lottery every day?>Manifest powers beyond your wildest dreams?>Well boy howdy do I have a DEAL for YOU
>>98948557Because then there might be something other than war.
>Good>Demons
