>>2881314
Won't count for much on a resume if you come back home. Flights home are long. People who've never done it like to shit on it online. Outside of that, I've had worse jobs for sure.

>>2881314
>I'm a loser so I'm going to Vietnam
Another one! No wonder people there watch and shit talk foreigners.

>>2881314
It's way harder than being a burger flipper wagey and pays less. If you're bad with money it's good because it puts you in a low cost of living location where you can't spend it. If you're good with money it's better to be a sous chef at Wendy's in Portland or whatever and be totally free when you travel

>>2881314
The golden years are long gone. The weebs that do it in Japan are in absolute poverty. Because the cost of living is so low in Vietnam, you might be able to afford a better life there. Even then, you will still be pretty poor. I'd be surprised if you'd break 2k USD there. That being said, I'd rather have 2k in Vietnam than Japan. I tutor online full-time at $24 hr which is decent as long as you don't live in a western country. I'm planning to start an online master's program in the fall for either Instructional Design or Education Technology.

>>2881383
>shit talk foreigners
Why would I give a shit what Trang the Grab delivery monkey thinks? 95% of the SE Asian economy runs on the back of a Honda Wave. They can cope and seethe all they like.
>>2881386
Disagree. I've never taught at a school in SE Asia, but I could see a White moving to a smaller town/village, working their way up in a school, learning the language, marrying a local, call it a life, and being comfortable while doing so. You are going to struggle hard to make ends meet as a burger flipper. You'll have to deal with joggers and fatties all day. You could work your way into management, but those guys are always stressed out and look pretty unhappy.

>>2881405
maybe from a quality of life perspective you have a point but in terms of earnings potential burger flipper wins. In a US city burger flippers make like $24 an hr and an English teacher can hope for $10 an hr at best. It's also not customer facing unless you're a cashier and get tips

>>2881409
>English teacher can hope for $10 an hr at best
Where? Maybe in a small Thai village where rent costs you $250 a month and a lunch runs $1.50. You can make double that in S. Korea easily.
Living in a city as a burger flipper might pay a bit better, but the CoL is going to eat up those extra dollars per hour. I'd rather proctor an exam in a classroom or do some worksheets than stand in front of a deep fryer for 8 hours.
It's anybody's guess how the TEFL market changes (or even exists) in the 2030s and beyond. I expect it will be rather grim, which is why I'm preparing for that now. I'm also a fundie so I'm not completely fucked. I probably wouldn't advise a new grad to try to make a career out of it unless they immediately start upping their credentials with a DELTA or Master's. Even then, there are better paths for working abroad in the future, such as healthcare.

>>2881413
in korea you're working 40 hours (at least) in a hagwon and making 2.1 mil krw. basically $10/hr. You're not proctering shit. Yeah if you have double digit IQ you will come out ahead teaching English because midwits cant into cost of living optimizations, but if you have triple digit IQ it's better to work in the US then come play after you make your money

>>2881383
Why is he not allowed to go to Vietnam without a non-blue collar job exactly?

I work in Thailand. I make about 120k baht after tax and get quite a bit of vacation. My job is pretty chill; four hours of teaching per day (I usually give them breaks and end up teaching less), no office or admin work, I can come in late and leave early, and don't have a supervisor. Thai labor law also gives us 30 sick days no questions asked, so I just take off if I don't feel like coming to work. It's a great job but they have high requirements and do expect good results. I have a DELTA and a masters. Bangkok is a bit of a concrete jungle. I like it here but I wouldn't want to settle down.

It's a great job/lifestyle if you upskill and distinguish yourself from the riffraff. Otherwise you're stuck in burger flipping hell for the rest of your life. Vietnam is okay if you're just starting out but the cities will wear you out after a while. I lived there for 4 years and my wife is Vietnamese. Wages are getting worse and a lot of the better jobs have dried up. International school teaching can also be a good option if you're willing get the qualifications, but it's getting increasingly competitive and there are probably more shit international schools than language schools.

Anyways I would say just go for it and see what happens. If you're unhappy you can always go home.

Does burger flipping anon have a point? I'm very frugal but I can't deal with being at the bottom of the hierarchy at my age of 30. I *feel like less of a loser over in Vietnam. I'm a hard worker but my body is falling apart. ADHD.

>>2881440
>I'm very frugal but I can't deal with being at the bottom of the hierarchy at my age of 30.
Literally no one cares. In NYC my peak earning month was over $5k, I got hired to work a multiweek event and got a lot of overtime. Even in Korea english teachers are lucky to clear $1.5k, I can imagine in neighboring countries besides China it's well below that. I'd rather do 6 months busting my ass working in a kitchen in the US, 7 days a week OT maxxing as much as possible, and then rest for a few years after. Being an English teacher, it's a crapshoot whether or not you can even enjoy the country. By the end of the day you'll be too tired to do anything. English teachers never have time to learn the language or learn the culture. And hierarchy be damned, flipping burgers or security guard or whatever min wage job you can get in America, is subjectively more fun and less stressful than teaching kids in a foreign country.

>>2881441
Even if you get paid between 1.5k and 2k in korea, you still get housing which is not insignificant

>>2881445
>you still get housing which is not insignificant
It's really not that much. The standard overpriced one room they give is worth $350. You can find something on your own that's equivalent for $200. The other problem is they have you by the balls and always hang it over your head. You have no freedom to quit and switch employers.

>>2881445
if they pay a housing allowance you should get your own. The accom provided is often pretty shit and you can get better yourself. Just be prepared to fork over a couple of grand US$ worth in Korean Won for the "key money" and pay around $400-$500 US, which is approx what I got per month as a lump sum anyways and you can get a half decent studio apartment with a bit of room. I had mine a few blocks up from Gwangalli Beach in Busan with a subway entrance right out the front door. It was the best move I could have made.

>>2881445
It is beyond brutal that the salary has not changed in decades. Bullshit these places are not making enough money to keep pace with the cost of living. Enjoy you rice bowl with gochujang packets as the only meal you can afford.

>>2881440
With the war going on, recruitment standards should be relaxed. You could join the Space Force, Air Force. I'd include Navy, but the ships seem to be sitting ducks atm. Army actually has a lot of POG jobs probably waiting to be filled that will never see combat.

>>2881491
commitment too big. you have to spend years doing that

>>2881314
I am thinking about going to Asia to do TEFL, only thing is idk about handling being away from home for a year, i'm 32 so I feel like my clock is ticking for this sort of thing, and I have done a few 2 month stint trips abroad. I work freelance so nobody will give a shit if I disappear for a year in Asia. Anons who have done TEFL before, what was the experience like? Good? bad? fun? Need a little reprieve from the US for a while.

My balls stink up whatever room I'm in

>>2881514
>Anons who have done TEFL before, what was the experience like? Good? bad? fun? Need a little reprieve from the US for a while.
Dancing monkey slave shit, and that was when the dollar was weaker and salaries were higher and inflation was less. The dollar is so strong it makes no sense to do it now. Go if/when the dollar weakens. If you never go don't go fomo. You're not missing out on anything.

>>2881539
Dancing monkey slave shit you say? Hmm, what country and what type of a school were you at when you did it? Think I won't miss out on anything in life if I skip doing TEFL?

>>2881542
I've lived in Asia for about 5 years. I only did the English teaching thing for 2 weeks. It was in a hagwon in Korea in 2020
If you want to disappear to Asia for a year, disappear on your own terms and keep your dignity and sovereignty intact

>>2881544
2 weeks?! Damn son, that tells me right there it doesn't seem like it is worth it to teach English. Though I have heard Korean hagwons specifically are ass compared to other schools. But my interest is in Taiwan, not Korea.

>>2881314
I got offered a TEFL+history teacher job at an elementary school in Beijing, 22k RMB/month which is like 3200 dollars
I'm 22 and graduated this year, don't really want to do it because it seems like a dead end

>>2881549
tier 2 office wagies in china make like 4k rmb. idk about beijing but that salary is insane. if you want to live in china and you have no better options might as well go for it. Can always frame it as a gap year if something better turns up

OP here. I'm starting to get cold feet. I don't want to come back even more unhirable than now. Is staying here in the US working as a hotel night desk staff for $13/hr better? I can live with family.

>>2881542
>>2881569
Not that guy, but the stuff they are referring to is singing "Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes" to a bunch of preschoolers. I have taught at a middle school, high school, and 3 eikawas.
The worst was an eikawa was actually owned by a British guy, but I bailed on that at the first opportunity.
When I was there, the exchange rate was fine, housing was paid for, and I was stashing away some money. Now the exchange rate is awful, they are paying teachers less than ever, while making them work longer hours. The teachers taking these shit contracts are from places like Malaysia and Mexico.
I tried teaching ,but it was a tough transition from Asian kids to American schools. So I eventually got an office job. Is my office job under HR ladies and girlbosses more demeaning or less demeaning than occasionally teaching little kids English? I would say teaching (overseas) was more rewarding, less demeaning and less boring than what I do now.
In the eikaiwas I got to meet interesting people, see them progress in English, and make friends from all over the world.
What I didn't get to do was spend time with friends and family back home much. Too expensive and too much of a hassle to fly back for every holiday.
TEFL is universally hated online, even the cretins at /r/japanlife shit on it to make themselves feel better.

Does a year of tefl look better on a resume than fast food or retail?

>>2881669
I can't think of when it wouldn't, but neither look particularly good. An advantage of TEFL is you have creative freedom because it's unfalsifiable

>>2881674
>An advantage of TEFL is you have creative freedom because it's unfalsifiable
That's my worry. Like they'll treat it about as good as doing drugs

>>2881314
Does Tefl even gove you enough time to venture out on the weekends or days off to explore the country you are in? From what I have read the cram schools in asia work you like a dog all week until you are so tired you can't do anything but sleep. How true is this?

>>2881686
Depends on the country, depends on the school. I know of guys who worked 6 days a week in Taiwan and Thailand at private schools there. If it's a small English school, i.e. not a primary/middle/high school, you will probably be working nights for students doing after-school/after-work lessons. You will probably be scheduled Saturday morning/day as well for the same reason.
Look at the contract for sure.

>>2881569
I worked abroad for 5 years teaching in SoKo and it was a great experience. It helped considerably when I went to apply for jobs when I returned home as having that experience and dropping specific examples in interviews was beneficial. It also helped that while I was there I did a bit more additional correspondence classes to get some professional designation in real estate management which also helped. It is way more fun doing a lot of the entry level shit while getting an experience abroad then slogging away at some crappy entry level shit whie still having to look at the same people, streets, and buildings as you did when you were in High School or University.

Well I ended up doing this unintentionally because I got private gigs and could network with them to get more students and at 40 to 50 per hour I made a good salary working part time. I'd use this experience to get certification and then try tutoring richer kids, that's where the money is.

For example you work for one wealthy family playing and monitoring their children, they provide housing, travel, and on average 6k monthly. Most I've seen go from 4-8k.

But it's hard to secure this job
And if you are a loser well...

>>2881789
>And if you are a loser well...
Yes of course I am. It's literally fast food, Walmart stocker or this.

>>2881811
>It's literally fast food, Walmart stocker or this.
Just follow capitalism and go with whoever gives you the biggest bag

>>2881839
But I wanna build my resume to eventually get a big boy bag.

>>2881859
2 more weeks
(40 more years)

>>2881885
I'd say tefl is a big jump from where I've been. My plan is to do it for a year then come back and work at H&R Block preparing taxes. Then I can finish my cpa exams and at that point, my history as a loser will be mostly nullified. It's a long shot but better than putting the fries into the bag for the rest of my life.

Guangzhou, Bangkok or Saigon for me lads?
>looking to work as few hours as possible so I can spend as much time working on my own ideas and enjoying the city
>relatively relaxed dress code etc
Tokyo and Seoul would be my dream but I've heard the work:life balance there is awful, doesn't sound like I'd have any time or energy left to enjoy them from what I've heard about entry level TEFL gigs in those places
>>2881430
Awesome, can you get these sorts of jobs straight off the bat or do you need experience/connections first? I know 120k thb p/m is NOT an entry level salary (lol) but can you get similar easy jobs that pay less or nah

are there any good entry level TEFL countries in europe?

almost all the asian countries will take anyone with a bachelor's degree and a pulse but most of the european countries seem to want people with more experience and extra credentials

>>2881897
you can probably earn more money in Guangzhou. You can then take quick flights down to Vietnam and Thailand for the weekend.

>>2881899
I've heard Italy come up, but I'm not a EU citizen. Non-Euros don't really get visas for TEFL, so I don't know much about it.

Is it actually easier to get a TEFL job in a Tier 2 Chinese city than in HCMC? I have honestly some of the worst work experience ever.

>>2882046
Start applying and find out? As long as your credentialled I don't think they care about your work history.

>>2881314
it's good. probably the easiest way to have a career abroad. as long as you have a bachelor's, and at least get a CELTA, Vietnam is definitely the place to be. you can earn at least $3,000 a month and work your way up from there
>>2882046
i wouldn't go to china. culture is shit and salary isn't that great.

>>2882046
depends on the city, if it's some nice place in Jiangsu or Zhejiang probably not, if it's in any of these provinces however:
>Hebei
>Henan
>Guangxi
>Gansu
>Shanxi
>Guizhou
they will take you even if you're a black african

is non-JET english teaching in japan really the nightmare that people online make it out to be? i've almost been convinced that you shouldn't bother teaching english in japan if it's not with JET, but they're notoriously competitive

i know i won't be making a lot of money, i just want to experience living in japan for a year or two while working a fairly chill job.

>>2882172
JET would probably be the best way to break into the country if you don't mind being remote. They'll fly you out, give you a visa and partially subsidized housing. But you're probably not going to end up in the heart of Tokyo or something.
There are other ALT companies, some legit, some scammy that will shave off some of your salary as their handler fee. These will get you placed at a high school like JET would. For housing, I believe you'll be on your own. Probably a Leopalace studio apartment, with three different bills you'll have to sort out for electricity, heat, and water. Also you'll have to figure out how to sort trash. Similar situation if you go the Eikaiwa route.
There you will work 5 days a week, noon to 8pm during the week, and 9 to 5pm on Saturdays. (I personally knew people working longer hours than that for the same pay as me.)
They range from small mom and pops run by a foreigner to massive chains all over Japan. I had a bad experience with a foreign run mom and pop eikaiwa, so reluctant to recommend them. They did provide housing and a car, but were unpleasant to deal with. Instead of just having a boss, I had a landlord snooping around my house and accusing me scratching the car. And then taking it out of my paycheck. For one example.
The big chains are Berlitz, AEON, NOVA, ECC and GABA. I am out of the game, but as an eikaiwa teacher I was making I wanna say 150,000 yen for 2 week pay period. I think it's down to 100,000 yen now, and the exchange rate is worse now too. So it could be kind of a Spartan existence these days. Lots of omurice and beans for dinner.

AHHH Chatgpt and Gemini have completely opposite answers to this question. Is TEFL or fast food for a year better for getting a seasonal tax prep job in the US?

>>2882700
>Is TEFL or fast food for a year better for getting a seasonal tax prep job in the US?
I thought you're studying for your CPA and no prior experience matters

>>2882706
After you have your CPA experience doesn't matter so much. Getting a job to get me the experience required to get a cpa is much harder

>>2882086
hows taiwan for tefl? I don't want to fuck around in mainland china.

>>2882796
It's comfy, but gets boring after a few years imo. Cost of living is also going up but salaries have remained stagnant. A lot more foreigners are looking for work there compared to a decade ago

AHHH WTF. BOTH DEGREE AND BACKGROUND CHECK NEED TO BE FEDERALLY APOSTILELD? FUCK THIS SHIT. HOW DO YOU EVEN MAKE A PROFIT

Not OP, but this seems like a better place to ask than killing another thread. I should be finishing up my Bachelors either at the end of this year or the end of next (there is some admin stuff on the backend that may push a unit to Semester 2 2027) and am considering applying for JET. Degree is in Professional Writing and Editing with a minor in Japanese. However, I have some concern that my application may look poor as I have been in unskilled blue-collar work while working through this degree part time (trucking specifically, previously worked in a computer shop and various service jobs) and while I see a lot of talk of "JET don't just want professional students they want people with life experience," a lot of the examples that I see cited for "life experience" are things like exchange student trips, volunteering in an office and the like. Additionally, as my university work has been non-contact (at a top 200 university, not just a diploma mill, but still online study) I am concerned about my referees being a trucking office boss that I see maybe three or four times a year and lecturers that couldn't pick me out of a police lineup.
How do I go about addressing this? I need to work to support myself towards the end of this degree, I seem to meet the description of what JET looks for in an applicant (long-running interest and some experience with Japan and the Japanese language, broad range of life experience, not a weeb or pest, would like to work in Japan for a few years but then likely return to my home country and start climbing the government ladder) but I hold serious reservations about how I may convince them that I am not just a truck driver with a degree.

>>2883131
No one cares, they just pretend to care to jew you in salary negotiations. They'll take anyone with a pulse.

>>2883135
JET is fixed rate, no? I've also heard that the acceptance rate is somewhere in the region of 25%, higher than most job programs obviously but still in the realm of "they will actively look for reasons to exclude you," I just want to get my ducks in a row on how I go about handling it.

>>>2883131
>>>2883143
I bet the few who got into JET and post here don't have any clue or would be able to share much as to why they got in. Only the bureaucrats in charge of selection know why they approved who they approved. If I had to guess, one thing they are looking for in regards to exchange programs, is they don't want someone to have culture shock when they land in Japan and bail after a few weeks or months.
I think your suspicion is right that trucking won't count for much with them, so I'd mention it if required and move on. Probably wouldn't dwell on it too much unless you are able to tie it into how it helped you interact with people better or some B.S.

>>2883148
That is fair. I will probably lean on the time I have spent working with elderly people (family members and some locals), children (see above) and leverage my time in the cadets and my (brief) exchange to Japan in high school where I was able to settle comfortably in a tier 2 city.

Is a Master's in TESOL worth the effort?

>>2885053
if you want to have a good career, definitely

>>2885053
You can make six figs (usd) with a TESOL masters in the gulf states but apparently it's hell. I knew a guy who went that route, didn't last a year. You can make a solid, middle class income teaching in an international school in China with a masters. I don't know about other places. Everybody and their grandmother has been trying to tefl game the nips for 30 years, so you get starvation wages there from what I hear. South Korea is slave-tier as well afaik, not sure if an MA would move the needle but my guess is no.

>>2885590
>TESOL
>Career
If your aim is to bypass soul-sucking corporate wage slavery in a 'developed' country then more power to you, but if you have career ambitions then TESOL is probably the wrong track.

Wanted to post in this thread and get opinions on my situation.

I currently have an MA in Film Studies (I know, don't worry, it was fully funded and I'm in no debt). My BA was in Creative Writing and Film Production (Double majored).

Starting in August, I am going to take a program to get a second master's degree that will also give me a teaching certificate in teaching Literature for grades 7-12. After that I'll have to do at least 3 years of teaching school to get the professional certificate (That's how New York State works, although I can just substitute teaching for all of those 3 years). I'll be about 34 when I complete all of this.

Depending if I am able to get a good job in a good school or not, I think after I might do TEFL. I think after I'm done with my second Masters and during those 3 years of required teaching I'll get the CELTA.

I know there's international teaching, but as other anons said in this thread, it can be pretty competitive. I'm curious if I just do TEFL how good a job I would get with my degrees and experience. I was thinking of doing Japan first but with how bad the economy there is, I think my goal would be China. But I'm not opposed to any of East Asia.

Give me your opinions.

is being a TEFL teacher abroad generally a chill job? I really want a break from the stressful corporate world, I don't want to have to think about project deadlines or attend teams meetings

>>2885925
It depends on the job, but also note in every job no matter how chill, they will eventually start to resent the freedom you have. I've been in the business 12 years started when I was 24, and every job has started and ended similarly, first they are glad to have you, especially if from a country like America, but usually by year 2 or 3 they'll start thinking that the salary they pay you could fund 2 or 3 filipinos to work instead of you, and besides they are happy to be slaves while the bothersome westerner refuses to do extra things outside the scope of his contract, why isn't he a team player?

Why does he only have to show up for classes and leave when they finish while the rest of us have to work an unpaid hour or two? Why does he get weekends off and we have to work an unpaid Saturday. So that building resentment along with fleeing russians, ukrainians, filipinos, pajeets and even africans, willing to be slaves, they have slowly started to see native speakers as burdensome.

I had a pretty chill job in vietnam, 5 years at one school, the longest contract so far, but every year they got less chill, eventually this latest year was the most demanding, I had a 2 years work permit. 1 year still left but they decided to fire me a few days ago as they can get a nice ukranian girl willing to work for 1k usd a month and will look good for their advertisements. I could easily get another job, but the kids have been getting shittier every year, not sure if it's brainrot or vietnamese parents totally spoiling them, at this point even the future doctors of america may be better behaved than them. So I'll be heading back soon even a bs job in america will pay well than staying longer in vietnam, the 5 years I been here the value of vnd has fallen like 20% or more compared to usd.

What is the tax and banking situation like for an American who is working in a foreign country and earning in foreign currency? Working in America seems much simpler from that respect, even if it does mean the dreaded ordeal of physically returning to America every year to scrounge around for work. Tax filing for a simple job in America takes about 20 minutes. Refund, bam! Finished.

And if for some reason you do get deported and blacklisted from a country, what happens if you have a bunch of foreign currency sitting in a local bank account?

>>2886223
You can claim foriegn earned exclusion, it's easyz once went 4 years without filing and basically just ticked that box to stay updated once I returned to america.

>>2886223
Ah you should withdraw any money before you expect to leave the job, Vietnam has closed accounts before of workers that get laid off, and they had to physically return to the original bank it was opened in to withdraw, so if you know ahead of time, better to empty it out before