What went wrong?
>>739432704Deferred shading and light sources limit
>>739432704Deferred Rendering did catastrophic damage to video games.Forward Rendering let you have stencil shadows, real-time reflections, and multisampled anti-aliasing, even on low-end hardware. However, it enforced a hard limit on the number of dynamic light sources you could use, requiring devs to bake lighting into map textures.Deferred Rendering lets you have functionally unlimited light sources. No need to bake lightning. Much, much easier for devs. But no more cheap shadows, cheap reflections, or cheap-ish anti-aliasing. Instead you need to use ray-tracing and path-tracing to get reflections, and temporal anti-aliasing (meaning the anti-aliasing is sampled from multiple frames, resulting in a "motion blur" effect even with motion blur disabled).
MSAA is not very good at handling with fine detail in motion (temporal aliasing). As games got much more detailed, a form of TAA was necessary. NVidia toyed with mixing MSAA with a temporal pass early on in the form of TXAA, but it was as demanding as MSAA and still blurrier. The best compromise was combining post process TAA with supersampling, running at a higher internal resolution than your screen's, which would offset the TAA blur and look both clean of aliasing and extremely sharp.Nowadays you have DLAA which can deliver a sharp picture free of temporal aliasing too. People are too dumb to set up custom resolutions so they just dealt with TAA at low pixel densities and complained about the blur instead of solving it themselves.
Just play at 4K and you can turn anti-aliasing off completely.
>blurry>even more blurryboth look like shit
MSAA is a scam, slightly sharper FXAA full of shimmer
>>739433128God shut the fuck up, you don't know what you're talking about. All deferred rendering did was optimize light sources at the cost of MSAA not doing anything. Everything else you've said is horseshit. Plenty of games with deferred rendering still used baked lighting. It did nothing about shadows whatsoever. Cascaded dynamic shadow maps were a separate thing and forward versus deferred rendering didn't matter at all. Stencil shadows were first all always a fucking meme because they were ludicrously expensive and had to be pin-sharp. Same thing with reflections which are always going to be expensive no matter what you fucking do.
>>739433340>t. never used a 4k monitor
>>739433340That's the fun part, anon: Some modern games actually feature graphical effects that intentionally rely on Temporal Anti-Aliasing's artifacts, so you can't turn it off.
>>739433454I have a 4K 27" monitor and anti-aliasing off looks perfect, anything else just makes the image blurry.
>>739432704Temporal is the problem.
>>739433128>Deferred Rendering did catastrophic damage to video gamesIf we're lucky, we might actually be getting rid of it in the future. If you start putting a game engine together now you're not gonna target deferred rendering with moderns standards.If we're lucky.
>>739433340Resolution does fuck all for aliasing.
>>739433392ur dumb
>>739433438Calm down.I never said there aren't games that use both deferred rendering and baked lighting. I simply said there's no need to, not that it never happens. Just like there's no need for you you to get so upset.As for reflections, you're simply wrong. There are even Wii games with real-time reflections, that are missing on the subsequent ports on more modern systems.If you aren't going to discuss this like a rational person, you shouldn't be involved in this thread.
>>739433596Cope
>>739433705>posting AI slop textYou are a fundamentally bad person.If you care about what the AI says more than what people say, then why even participate in this thread? Go chat with AI instead.
>>739433793I can feel your seethe through your words.Amazing.
>>739433674You're a retard.>>739433565It's never going away because it's an optimization. It is the most efficient way to do this specific thing. And it's obvious that it's the most efficient way.But forward rendering didn't go away either. Because it does a different specific thing and some projects wanted that, even though it's a doing a ton of work that you can't see that gets thrown away.Modern generic engines just implement both pipelines.
>>739433880>You're a retard.No, I'm right. You got angry at me for something I didn't say.Calm down.
itt: ramblings you'd read in 2017 /v/
>>739433874Yeah, I do tend to get upset when people like you waste my time.Again: Why even participate in a thread like this if all you're gonna do is ignore what other people say and go ask an AI for affirmation instead?
>>739433438>Stencil shadows were first all always a fucking meme because they were ludicrously expensive and had to be pin-sharp.Bullshit, even the fucking PS2 can handle stencil shadows. Modern devs are just lazy because it's not a built-in effect in modern engines for some stupid reason and they can't be arsed to code in their own implementation.
>>739434107You were wrong and now you are seething. Yummy.
>>739432704I liked TAA. It was like magic, for the first time my games had no fucking aliasing. Too bad later games started to use TAA for the entire rendering pipeline.
>play rogue trader>wonder why it looks so shit>turn off TAA>everything looks better
>>739433705Why do dorks think AI is a source? It just confidently presents whatever the first few Google results are, regardless of whether it's a legit site or a content mill copy-pasting some reddit thread. IF it doesn't hallucinate.LLM utility is always limited by how much time and effort it takes to verify its output.
>>739434135>Bullshit, even the fucking PS2 can handle stencil shadows.Yeah and it was a slideshow. You're talking about a game that had two shadow-casting entities on screen at any given time and still ran at sub-N64 framerates.
>>739434203You can't even formulate your own responses to other people's statements. You have to rely on an AI to think for you. You are an incredibly weak man.
>>739433438>Same thing with reflections which are always going to be expensive no matter what you fucking do.The times people have complained about reflections killing performance is virtually zero compared to the times they've complained about the reflections looking wrong or stupid because that's just actually so much worse. The fact that a PS4 game has worse reflections than a PS1 game is embarrassing no matter how you try to tech jargon excuse it.
>>739434287And yet, they still had better shadowing than some modern games on hardware that's hundreds of times more powerful.
>>739433874>I got btfo>that means my opposition is seethingHow tiny does your peanut of a brain have to be for this to make sense in ones head
>>739434272>>739434348>>739434450I'm almost there, keep going... hnngh...
>>739434550Pretty sure you're the one seething right now, given this kind of inane response. You're genuinely hurt by the fact that you are unable to participate in a conversation.
>nooooo tech cannot progress!!! we need to stay in primitive polygons!!!!
>>739434450>I got btfoThe AI response is correct, though. You don't need anti-aliasing at 4K.
>>739432704Msaa is extremely punishing to hardware.Far cry 3, a gen 7 game, can hardly hit 90 fps maxed out at 4k on a 4090.Fantastic image tho
>>739434636Participate on this... *cums*
I'd love to pass to 4k but i don't want to spend $2000 on a video card that's gonna be outdated in 2 years anyway because devs don't want to optimize their awful slopsAnd besides I've seen footage of people using 5090 in some recent games and it still can't reach a consistent 60fps anyway because all that forced RT etc. shit so why even bother
>>739434704How much MSAA do you really need? Since it's still partial supersampling, do you really need to be rendering polygon edges at 32K resolution like you would when you're at native 4k and 8x MSAA, or is 2x MSAA enough?
>>739434779Just use DLSS.
>>739434779Only hope with RT is that lumen finally rejects software rendering, if/when it does it'll age like wine. It won't happen though.
Reject PBR, return to Blinn-Phong
>>739435195That I agree with but just because I dislike the way it looks, not because of performance.
RTX 5080 is one of the gayest GPUs
>>739433438>All deferred rendering did was optimize light sources at the cost of MSAA not doing anythingMSAA was made to work with Def. Rendering already back in the DX10 days. The meme just got stuck.These days, you could get the performance gains of Def.Rend. and the benefits of MSAA and Forward Rendering by using the Forward+.>Same thing with reflections which are always going to be expensive no matter what you fucking do.Now THAT'S a meme that won't die out.Planar reflections were literally doable on 6th gen console hardware, without any issues. And they can be optimized in all the same ways the main game visuals can.
>>739433340True and I am baffled every time I hear the contrary. I already often disabled it in 1080p at a time when performance hit wasn't an issue. Perhaps it's because I was raised on them but jaggies are absolutely preferable to any of those antialiasing issues, and the few remaining jaggies at high res are a total non issue. Visual aliasing was a (secondary) problem in 640*480. I genuinely think there is something wrong with the eyes and tastes of anyone that would tolerate any AA vaseline or mixed sampling over the honest to God jaggies which once again are even less of an issue than before.
>>739432704Lies as usual from MSAA faggot. Image on the left is from the remaster.TAA is great. Stop listening to streamers.
>>739433128Snoy is to blame for this, literally.
>>739432704>even the soldiers had to be niggerfiedgrim
>>739437358Incorrect. Left one is from the 2007 original CoD4, evident by the Gulf War era dust goggles on the MICH.
