https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/splinter-cell-designer-says-modern-lighting-have-made-stealth-games-harder-to-read
Uh, but this was always the case? Why else would splinter cell and thief have a HUD indicator that showed whether or not you were visible to NPCs? You couldn't trust players to discern this because of different monitor brightness and effects in the game world
>>739433305stealth is based on enemy ai's cone of detection and thats it. lighting exists for the player sneaking fantasy or at best a invisible meter that effects the ai's cone of detection. This man is an idiot.
>>739433431this. he thinks enemy NPCs can see light LMFAO
>>739433490People are forgetting that people who made hits from the 90's and 2000's are in their 50's to 70's now and have been mindbroken by social media and think chatbots are literally cortana. They have been cooked as badly as kids.Just the other day i saw Marty O'Donnel go on a rant about how ChatGPT told him "wokeness will drive the white man extinct in 3 years". These uncs are cooked.
>>739433773>wokeness will drive the white man extinct in 3 yearsmore like 5 but it's on track
>>739433773your generation will never amount to anything
>>739433416What do you not understand about comparatives?
>>739433431Stealth games that factor in lighting will typically approximate a single lightness value based on character proximity and simple occlusion tests to nearby light sources. Then usually it will slow the build rate of and potentially cap the perception value that nearby enemies hold against that character.This can make it harder to read with more advanced lighting systems that support light bouncing etc, which the perception system is unlikely to simulate, thus producing results which are inconsistent with the visuals. This also depends on user settings, and it is generally bad for user settings to have a significant effect on gameplay readability.
>>739433839Okay grandad, whatever stops you tearing up the rec room at the home again.
>>739433305Of course its hard. Devs today are low IQ retards that dont know how to make good games anymore. Everyone old with skills has either died or quit gaming.
>>739433305true. visual clarity is at an all time low, so much noise and detail everywhere which is why the yellow paint existswhen geometry is clean and sharp and not being lit up by displacement maps and normal maps, you can read it all more clearly
>>739433305>NOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND STEALTH ONLY WORKS WHEN THE HIDING SPOTS ARE COMPLETELY DARK AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY STEALTH CAN WORK AND IS KNOWN TO MAN THE UNIVERSE EVEN HAS A NATURAL RULE ABOUT IT THAT STEALTH CAN NEVER BE DONE IN OTHER WAYS
>>739433909why dont you stick with “unc” it suits you more, brainrotted social media addict.
>>739433968care to provide some arguments to the contrary? even in Manhunt which is pretty fucking dark at times, Cash will be invisible to the enemy but it's often pretty obvious that a normal human would be able to see him an enemy not being able to see you in regular lighting conditions will always be retarded
>>739433903Bro the game engine is not seeing what you are seeing thats a colossal waste of memory. Is the player standing in this portion of a basic lighting map the player never sees? then you lower the value further below the threshold the ai needs to flag its alert sequence. The program isn't 'seeing' multi layered shadows and dust dancing in a dappling sun beam. Its all down to play coordinates and preset values unrelated to rendering visuals for the player. Like how old games would use textures to simulate backed in lighting.
>>739433949>not being lit up by displacement maps and normal mapsThose aren't the issue at all. Look at Doom 3, Half Life 2, and the Riddick games. Low-contrast and/or badly rendered modern lighting, terrible fog effects, and excessive object cluttering are the problem.
>>739433949The geometry issues were more of a thing in the xbox/ps3 era developers entered the HD era and put more of a focus on things that look good in screenshots and trailers. Its why you could get amazing fog but reflections in mirrors stopped happening.
>>739434078Anon that is literally what I am saying. And that is the problem with recent games. What the perception system uses to approximate lightness, and what the GPU lighting produces are not directly related. They may share some data (light sources or lightmaps) but otherwise they you easily run into issues where places that look dark to the player look light to the AI and vice versa.
Then don't make it modern, make it like chaos theory or stylized like SC1/2, I don't need splinter cell to be super detailed modern graphics. OG art direction and lighting are still great. We're never getting SC at this rate.
>>739433903why not just have an AI read the brightness of a pixel on the player's model or something.
>>739434198this is your average AI enthusiast’s understanding of how things work under the hood
>>739433431If I remember correctly the original xbox splinter cell had an indicator to tell you how undetectable you were to the enemy line of sight detection in dark areas of the map to tell if you were deep enough in the shadows.
>>739434197>I don't need splinter cell to be super detailed modern graphicsBut anon, think of the investors!
>>739434197At this point i wonder if companies know we would accept games that look like PS2 games if they could do all the shit they seem incapable of doing anymore but they dont out of prime, worrying it wouldn't appeal to zoomers who werent customers back then before games became mainstream or worse the talent left in the industry dont know how to do this and the indies are self taught.Because i would absolutely take something looking like Haunting Ground or FFX again.
>>739434198You could potentially approximate it that way if you render in a way that lets the CPU read from a texture that just has the lighting, but unless you are insane enough to render the game from the multiple directions, the result would change based on the camera position/angle.
>>739433431Splinter Cell famously made light a main mechanic as you could track how illuminated you were and enemies would see you easier if you were in the light. Going through a level undetected generally involved staying in the shadows or even shooting out the lights.
>>739433305So why try to be realistic most stealth games would probably not work if it was realistic. In the old splitercell games sam cant fight for shit all he does is the dumb elbow and he doesnt carry any ammo what's so ever. His ride isnt even practical at most times. Also it probably would be easier to just pay a guard or some one to just put a radio or something in the place they are in then have sam go in
>>739433773Shit your right have a 70 year old co worker. I showed him some ai video so f dragons and shit and he totally fell for it thinking it was real
>>739433305The last good stealth game was Chaos Theory
>>739434705its because they grew up in a period where we didnt have safety laws about lead yet. Its why their generation gets dementia more than any other. Their brains have low level metal poisoning as default.
>>739433305For a long time, it seemed like developers would slap every Nvidia rendering effect on without really caring what the game looked like afterwards. This is confirmation that even game designers feel nobody can see what the fuck is going on. They can just use like 20+ year old lighting technology if the game is trying to have extreme lighting variation, but maybe nobody knows how to do that now.
tlou2 mogged every dedicated stealth game it's hilarious.
So why do they just go back to high contrast shadow volumes like Chaos Theory?
>>739433305so just make it the old way
>>739433305It's not just a problem for stealth games. I've just started to play Star Wars Outlaws and I can't see shit, man. It feels so blurry and so filled with particles of just air that it is a strain to interact with the game.
>>739434792Its a trickle down issue across the entertainment industry. Every lesson we get taught is from lessons learned practically by others who came before. Trouble is technology has changed so fast and in some basic bottom line ways that we are having to relearn damn near everything.Like you ever notice lighting in film is dogshit? thats because cameras were not designed to capture light from LED rigs but filament lightbulbs used for the entirety of the 20th century and they didnt ever expect the different to be so stark. Or how about how traditional animation is dying because all the people who had the skills died and didn't pass them on so places like calarts have teachers who werent taught the fundamentals themselves by this point.Happens with gamedev as well. Different engines, hardware, meme trends like ray tracing and all of it related to "wait who owns X? what happened to things owned by Company Y sold and split up by three different investor groups?". Shits a nightmare.
>>739434743I heard good things about the Intravenous games. bounced off the one I played, seemed a bit autistic
>>739433305>clint hockingthat guy is still alive? who are we digging up next? maxime beland? the faggot that turned splinter cell into stealth action call of duty because he never liked the OGs focus on sneaking and avoiding combat?
>modern devs so dependent on unreal engine oob lighting they're actually afraid to turn it off
>>739433305stealth will always be a bit of a silly genre at its core. you have to design the whole game around how stupid and blind you want the AI to be, since realistic AI will be profoundly unfun >someone just threw a beer bottle at my head, hmm better walk around and see who did it and if nobody's there I'll just forget about it in a minute why don't enemies in stealth games use a flashlight or wear night vision goggles, or have CCTV operators, or do basically anything sane that a human would? you get the idea
>>739435126Yeah, it's not easy trying to make software creation lessons from decades ago work today. SNK described wanting to make King of Fighters 14 with sprites like the previous, and nobody they interviewed had ever made a sprite before. Still, it's a product they're selling, and part of making it is making sure it looks right.
>>739433949that because this game has baked lighting. The w hole game has one shade of darkness and then predetermined shadows where you can hide. Modern game dont have predetermined shadows or baked lighting. Its all dynamic light.
>>739435393>why don't enemies in stealth games use a flashlight or wear night vision goggles, or have CCTV operatorsMGS5 did this kind of stuffand you could send your goons to fuck up their shipments and stop them
>>739434197No one will play that
>>739434420>appeal to zoomersstill blaming zoomers? Most zoomers are reaching 30. its the alpha fags now
>>739435393that styx game was awful for shit like this>the guard can't see you walking in full light because you're doing it slowly behind a lattice walluuuugh just fucking make the game entirely abstract if you're going to pull that shit. don't show me stuff that flat out doesn't work the way it appears.
>>739433305Sam Fisher has goggles glued to his head 24/7. Why not make a setting that allows him to discern darkness levels in a manner easier than eyeballing it, so players can get a feel of what's safe cover or not?
>>739435393Because you think Stealth games are anything other than the puzzle games they are. But this happens with lots of things. Forbidden Siren for example is also a very clear puzzle game but its imagery puts it in the survival horror genre even though the focus is evasion, putting square pegs in square holes and evading conflict to transition from point A to point B.Metal Gears boss fights mistakenly taught people stealth isnt puzzle coded when really it still is but made by an autistic man who failed to get into the movie industry and never got over it.
>>739435546You could even point the flashlight to someone with nightvision to blind them
>>739433305just don't use modern lighting then, are you retarded
>>739435641Friend i dont know how to tell you this but in this economy yes the 30 year old zoomer with two toddlers is still the primary target audience they were 15 years ago. Children today dont play videogames that arent slop like roblox. Our entire medium of the entertainment industry is an aged audience.
>>739435393another thing is silhouettes, I don't think any game has bothered trying to implement silhouette detection also, if you stand in front of a strong light source like a fireplace for example, it would cast your shadow on the room, but I've never seen a stealth game where enemies react to the player's shadow
>>739435751Silhouette detection sounds cool but in practice most players would probably be unable to comprehend it. Shadows are hard for the player to keep track of/control, but I could see using them if games still used hard shadows and kept light source counts reasonable.
just make thief maps
>>739435751>another thing is silhouettes, I don't think any game has bothered trying to implement silhouette detectionChaos Theory.
>>739434062SC had enemies that were unable to see your silhouette standing between two light sources just because you were "in the shadows". Stealth was just as fake and gay in those games as many others.
>>739433305okay so basically what hes saying is "we cant make games anymore because we are all cucked faggots that hate violence and we're eunuchs that hate sex now"
Then stop using modern lighting?
>>739434308I meant the "AI" of a bot following a basic bitch script.>>739434459I'm not sure if I understand. But if an approach like that requires rendering the game multiple times... then just reduce the quality of the game to 00s or 90s levels and hope that nobody realizes that you need a 2020s card to run it? :D
>>739436752wow antisemitic much?
>CTRL+F HDR>Zero Results
>>739434763Yeah but now we all have microplastics in our bones. You win some, you lose some.
>>739435118>I've just started to play Star Wars OutlawsAre you retarded?
>>739435685>it's not survival horror genre >even though the focus is evasionYou contradict yourself.
>>739436752That's what I was thinking
>>739436669Chaos Theory has a few scripted parts where enemies can see your reflection or your shadow, though.
>>739433305I knew this was the case that modern lighting was potentially ruining everything forever for the stealth genre. Now i know it's been screwed up for good past no return.Gay tracing was a fucking mistake.
>>739433305Wow, what an incredibly difficult problem, I'm sure something as simple as "DIAL BACK THE FUCKING REALISM" won't work. Probably can't do something as obvious as changing the fucking artstyle to make light/dark more easily readable, either.
Ray tracing fixes this. Trace rays from the enemies eyes to determine visibility brightness.
Stealth realism is terrible. I played the new Ghost Recon games by people insisting on this board that they've surpassed games like Chaos Theory but they're in reality just very aggressive games that desensitize any sneaking at all. They just turn into mil shoots very quickly. There's no perfectionism in learning map patrol routes or well designed bases with lots of interiors that require precise timing and navigation. You just shoot your gun all the time.
>>739437757we NEED photorealismwe NEED 9 quadrillion polygons for every character model and coffee muglow poly and clear visuals are a lost technology we just cant replicate them anymore
>>739435685MG1-MG2-MGS1-MGS2 all play largely the same, like pacmanIn MGS1 you literally can't even walk, and footsteps while running are silentMGS2 introduced surfaces that make a noise but you're still running round everywhereYou were supposed to play by dodging around guards like pacman but the tranq gun (which you maybe only get in MGS2 on normal difficulty and below? Can't remember) ruins itMGS2 is really fun to play without tranqing/shooting/knocking out any guards, using the throw as your only attack. The game was designed around this, the throw lets you bypass a guard that you can't go around. Then as you get better you realise that guards always turn in the same directions and you can pass a guard by carefully staying to his side on his patrol routeI toy with the idea of making a MGS2 successor and limiting the player's attacking abilities so that you're forced to puzzle through them like this
>>739436752No its easier to make a game on UE5 and add Lumen
Irl stealth by hiding in the shadows is pretty much impossible. Real stealth is either hiding in plane sight or not moving while wearing camouflage. Anything else is useless in the modern day with so many artificial lights around and even if there is any, your eyes quickly adapt to the darkness and the human brain is trained by evolution to detect moving shapes in low light enviroments.A realistic stealth game would be boring because it would either be another sniper elite or hitman game.Go unrealistic, fantasy or cartoony and you can still have a proper classic stealth game. Styx and dishonored come to mind.
>>739437438
>>739437983>simulate the eyes of every npc shooting invisible lasers that bounce around to determine the pc>pee cee burns
>>739433305This is a fucking CRAZY INSANE DAMAGED idea but what if you just DIDN'T make an overly detailed video game with realistic lighting?
>>739438351how does being fantasy solve any of those problems? besides being able to go invisible maybe
>>739438351>dishonored>proper classic stealth game
>>739438351>Styx and dishonored come to mind.Dishonored actually rejected any good stealth design principles of Thief and Splinter Cell. Only Styx borrowed some of their design elements. Arkane at the time were being faggots making the muh realism argument about light levels. Although they never made excuses for their poor sound propagation system because they never thought much about implementing one at all because they're lazy cunts.
>>739438050>In MGS1 you literally can't even walk, and footsteps while running are silentMGS1 had had this like puddles and whatever you call those scaffolds. Its almost counter intuitive to add walking on MGS1 because of the forced top down camera with no FPS shooting or movement.You can get tranq on all difficulties except for EE>>739438351dumb take if you have been in an unlit interior you will know it gets pitch dark especially if you are a nigger l ike yourself.The death of immersive sims and popularity of cover shooters killed stealth concept in games games.Splinter cell went cover shooter, MGS went cover shooter, Hitman Absolution, Deus Ex went cover shooter went cover shooter, modern garbage like TLOU, nu-Tomb Raider, Uncharted went cover shooter. The problem isnt shadows, its cover shooter.
>>739438546Its the closest we get to im-sims that focus on stealth.
>>739433305metroid prime remastered used baked lighting in 2024 and looked better than most games with dynamic lighting so what's the excuse?oh right, it's really about laziness.
Roman figured it out.
>>739433305I dont get it, why is he lamenting the old baked lighting methods as if they are dead or inferior. It's still the best way to light a static room, especially in a stealth game with enclosed environments.
>>739438913>used baked lightingSo did prince of persia the lost crown
>Negative, I'm still haven't found the intruder.
>>739437481You have graphene in your brain you little bitch are will be controlled by Gates remotely
>>739438489anon that would mean changing the default lighting settings in the engine and actually doing work, please understand thats impossible
>>739434705You sure he wasn't humoring you because you were showing him gay dragon videos and he might think you're slow?
>Want to take some screenshots of Chaos Theory for the thread>Can't because it's one of those old games that disables the screenshot shortcut.
>and if the player goes here, the engine will render complex fractal lightning through volumetric fog, bouncing of surfaces a thousand times PER RAY until it reflects off the blade of this thousand times folded japanese sword, making it so the player can see his own eyes in the reflection, and from there, can see the entire level rendered in his eye reflection>YES MAKE A THOUSAND GAMES LIKES THIS WITH 20 FPS FOR PLAYSTATION >is that... is that a shadow that the player could hide in?>OH MY FUCKING GOD AIEEEEEE IT CANNOT BE THIS SIMPLE! HIDING IN A SHADOWY AREA AND NOT GETTING DETECTED BY NPCS! IMPOSSIBLE! HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO PROGRAM AN OPUS MAGNUM LIKE THIS????
i mean yeah if your game is built around light
>>739439185>I'm still haven't
If people think it's so easy to make something better than splinter cell or even a thief game as i often hear the critics claim on this board that these are shit games. Then why don't you make a throw away game in your spare time and upload it online to show how effortless it is? why is there only a small handful of games around today? it remains completely in the past see pic rel. that this idea of game was very short lived. These are the few that made use of some kind of lighting systems. I don't think it's because you could easily make it. There's very few games listed here that would be considered competent. I'd go with Styx being the best seen in a while.
>>739433305Thief solved this in 1998 by giving you a visibility indicator, which the splinter cell games also used
What stealth games even get released these days? I was itching to play one after sneaking around in modded Skyrim again and I think Styx was the only one I've seen
for me it's mark of the ninja
>>739441487Manhunt, too. apparently this is a rare feature in stealth games, somehow probably not a coincidence that the best stealth games have indicators that show you how hidden you are, or how much noise you're making
>>739441783tried to play this multiple times, just never clicks. the presentation doesn't help, looks like a flash game. why didn't they ever make a sequel? also idk how related it is since it's more of a tactics game, but Shadow Tactics is pretty cool
I rememberd 2D J2ME mobile phone Splinter Cell game and it was great
>>739441505Dedicated stealth games? Almost none, since stealth as a game concept got folded into action games a while ago. Think of all the games that have "invisibility grass". Or think of Deus Ex HR & MD, where stealth is supported, but so to is blasting everyone that you see. Very few modern games make stealth the sole intended way to play.
>>739442018klei have never made any sequels, which is based honestly>Shadow Tacticsalso fantastic stealth game. people use stealth game to mean only games like thief, hitman or splinter cell, not sure why
>>739433305>On screen keyboard>adsNigga you glow in the dark, don't you?
>>739440871Press prt sc key.
>>739442147the phrase "stealth or guns blazing" still fucking triggers me to this day. it reached peak usage right as stealth as a genre died completely
>>739433305TL;DR: they rely too heavily on "realistic" lighting and shadows, and can't be assed to do anything manually anymore, it's all prefab shit from the engines.Also yeah, this is just a big downstream issue started by the fact that devs don't make their own styles anymore and just use the engine's lighting and shading as-is.It also doesn't help that modern gamers aren't gonna give two shits about playing a stealth game, and reviewers are just gonna walk right into spotlights and rate the game low.>>739438546It basically is, but it's ruined by the fact you can just teleport away from everything and never have to interact with anyone. The game (no idea about 2) has all the usual stealth game mechanics, it just gives you zero reasons to actually use it; if you force yourself to play a no-teleport run of the game, it's just a straight-up stealth game.
>>739442441>hey so we have this stealth game where if you're spotted you have to run away and you'll probably get killed>and we've also made it so that you can easily kill all the guards!fucking enraging
>>739442441Deus Ex generally should allow for stealth or guns blazing, but around the Human Revolution/Mankind Divided release people were obsessed with like Uncharted arenas where you'd maybe stealth kill one guy and then it turned into a normal fight. I get pissed off hearing it too. It seems to mean like "have fun or play on easy mode."
>>739443267The reason it's annoying is because deep down you understand that you're sneaking to protect the guards from yourself. If they spot you, it means they die, not you.
>>739433431no you're being a bit retarded alsoyou faggots would bitch about it non stop making "oh no no no" threads about NPCs being blind if the difference between NPC behavior and graphics was obvious in a modern video gamethis is why stealth games as a genre died because of muh realism in games and having to hard code NPC behavior until it removes any difficulty
>>739435751what is this picture of a door supposed to prove?
>>739441026the guard is baiting the intruder into correcting his grammar
>>739438476Ray casting through like three points on the player character would be cheap as fuck.
>>739441783Fuck yeah.>that dev comment where they were discussing how to convey sound info to the player>what if we just make it a visible ping>it worksRealism is overrated.
>game devs when stealth mechanics need to be more than "crouch to hide" or "enter shadow"
>>739433949I like how everyone that moans about visual clarity really just means they're on the same level mentally as the counter-strike go "pros" who had to have the physics disabled on barrels and chickens removed because their dysgenic tard brains couldn't handle them.Games don't "lack visual clarity", you're just retarded and blind.
>>739435393Far Cry 2 is a prime example. Casuals and faggots will moan about its ai being "broken" because no, hiding behind a plant where anyone can visibly see them between the leaves doesn't count as being hidden. Everything is made for casuals and babies, so you'll never get a game that actually makes it so if a player could see an NPC in a location under certain circumstances, the opposite would be true as well.
>>739445149>Games don't "lack visual clarity", you're just retarded and blind.They do, hence the constant yellow paint.
>>739435393Your pic is how light works in real life. Someone standing with a bright light source over their head can't see anything in the shadows.
>>739435393>why do the niggers in niggerball bounce it and let others steal it from them instead of carrying it tight like a sane human wouldare you retarded
>>739438001Fuck off to itchio then. There's endless waves of that exact lowpoly zero effort shovelware garbage you're so yearning for.
>>739445445The yellow paint is for braindead retards like DSP and (You). Aka the same people who would be lost in old games with MUH VISUAL CLARITY VGHHHHH unless they also had yellow paint.
>>739433305This was a big problem with the new Styx. It sucks that Cyanide fell for the UE5 fad, considering the previous games looked sharper, more distinct, and performed much better too. There was never any confusion about being in darkness or not (though there has always been the issue of enemies blending in too well). Then again, shadows barely matter in the last game, as it's more Dishonored / Bamham style of action parkour LoS stealth. This and other changes might have been made to make the game more appealing to the mainstream, but it bombed anyway and now the studio's dead. Sigh.
>>739445149>Games don't "lack visual clarity", you're just retarded and blind.you are the fool here
>>739445149new games don't lack visual clarity, it's just a myth guys
>>739434763so what's your excuse?
>>739435393>realism makes videogames unfunno shit
>>739435747>30 year old zoomer with two toddlersthe zoomers are in their twenties and they're not having kids, it's the millennials that have kids
>>739445770You can't be referring to me, because I play Thief 2 FMs monthly, and those autist make some obtuse objectives.
>>739445796I played the first Styx game back in March(it's one of those games i missed out on playing back in 2014), and ended up being shocked with how strong it's art direction was.
>>739437562survival horror only becomes evasion focus when speed running, you can blast most if not every enemy into the ground in all the classic REs and most SH's (SH3 would probably be a pain to do this but it is doable with melee weapons)
>visual readability IRL
if modern lighting tech makes recreating SC style mechanics hard then surely you could just rely on prebaked lighting? its not like anyone is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to use raytracing.
>>739445937>omg look at this thumbnail>>739445985>omg look at this dark rocky cavern with a giant lizard
I can't imagine a genre that would benefit more from modern lighting techniques than stealth.
If the unrealistic standard of "hide in shadow, now you're invisible" no longer works then maybe focus on an AI cognition systems instead?>make loud noise>npc comes to investigate>bash NPC in head and hide the body>in true REALISTIC fashion, most don't investigate because notmyproblem.jpgoh wait that's Hitman. Hitman literally proves Stealth games are alive and well and perfectly possible if you're not a lazy shitty ubisoft trannydev.
>>739446795>what is thumbnailing as a design concept outing yourself as a retard yet again
>>739433949Yellow paint exists because game development is so incredibly uncoordinated now that yellow paint is just about the only visual design language that is going to survive a game's development intact without being overwritten by too many cooks, outsourcing and design-by-committee bullshit.
>>739446262Yeah. One of the reasons I love it. Akenash is a very memorable setting. Dark and overwhelming in some parts, bright and majestic in others, but everywhere there's this grittiness and brutalism, from the structures, to the enemies, to Styx himself. My personal favorite area is the library.
>>739433305just make a game without modern lighting? Unreal Engine 3 is a perfectly valid and still usable engine.
>>739433773this. boomers got one shotted by gen ai
just don't use modern lighting then
>>739433305Okay but Splinter Cell is not supposed to have modern lighting. Its supposed to have Splinter Cell lighting. This is why I don't want these assholes touching Splinter Cell. There is no way in hell developers today would get it.
>>739433305Splinter Cell was never good. These games were depressing as hell even. So dark, so generic. Very mediocre games. The first game has to be the most saddest game I have ever played. It is such a product of its time. I struggled to get through it. Everything is so dark and drab. Just made me want to kill myself. I've never played any other games that put me in such a low mood like Splinter Cell games did.
>>739441505Not really a stealth game but I picked up an indie imsim that was fun to play stealth for a bit, writing/humor was kind of corny though. Sir Kicksalot
>>739433949Noticed this in Rift Apart, it's hard to tell what's enemies and what's the critical path as everything is overly detailed slop and there are particle effects absolutely everywhere. Games used to have clear visual language they would use to quickly communicate with the player and allow them to rapidly parse information, but that art has been lost.
>>739433949>true. visual clarity is at an all time lowAbsolutely true. It's so easy to porposefully design levels and environments to be easily navigated but they fuck it up every time.
>>739446016I'm a lead connoisseur
>>739437438that's because HDR is a meme with no unified standard
come home gamer
>>739433305Light based stealth is always retarded unless it's truly pure darkness even for the player. Stealth should be about avoiding being in sight range, not about being magically invisible.
>>739433305Intravenous has even better light system than that crappy old game series only boomers remember!
>>739450172how is thief retarded
>>739433305I'm surprised how many people need to be told this though.
