>fun? not on my server>*builds aimbot machine*
>aimbot machine>With turn rate of a guy playing on controller>And cannot moveEngineer is the 2nd worst class in the game
>>739440867Engineer is literally one of the two classes required in every game
>>739440968engineer is borderline useless on payload offense unless your team is retarded
>>739440746If you suck so much at fucking TF2 of all things, especially modern TF2 where you have weapons like the direct hit and LnL which directly dick over Engineer, there is no hope for you
>shoot 8 stickies from below under cover>they all land next to your sentryWhat you gonna do now?
>enemy team with >energy shields>healers>manned heavy turrets>common weapons>automated drones with autoaim duplucating the number of adversaries to twice>blocks to control map entrances>still won most of the times>most memorables and fun matches everOnly on S4Leaguehttps://youtu.be/QFtIDd7Er-M
>>739441520>aim at the base of the sentry>mouse2
>>739440867Came to post this. Of every class only Spy is worse. Engineer is the only class whose worth is 75% based on the map and 25% based on your team, and everything he does other classes already do better.
>>739442015>>739440867"there are situations where it's not ideal to pick engineer therefore he's bad" what is this retarded logic. on most maps if you're pushing last and you don't have an engie with teleporters your team will get kneecapped pretty hard, it's on par with not having a medic. it's like calling scout the worst class in the game because he's bad on dustbowl
>>739441052Use minis, retard
>D-did you just manage to get A SINGLE backstab on ME??>*+attack*
>>739442361Engineer has no means of self-defense. You can be godlike in skill but if your team sucks then your shit is getting blown up the second you build it. He's also worse than the other classes at his role, same as spy.>crowd controlSoldier, Demo, Pyro>defenseSoldier, Demo, Sniper, Heavy>chokepointsSoldier, Demo, Sniper, Heavy>support and healingSoldier, MedicThe only thing he does that the others don't is movement and teleing, but the usefulness of it is entirely dependent on the map and your team. Some maps don't need teles at all, and teles do nothing if your team is ass.The deeper problem though is that Soldier and Demo are way overtuned compared to everyone else, and Medic is the only useful support class. Blame compfags for all that (given that 95% of comp players were soldier, demo, or medic mains)
>>739442361If they didn't have teleporters they would be the worst class in the game.
>>739441052>engineer is borderline useless on payload offense
>>739440867That's pyro. Spy is worst.Engie shares a similar tier to Heavy in that they are actually very powerful but limited by the set up their kit requires, which makes them situational.Heavy is used when the fighting is close to spawn since that bypasses the slow rollout, likewise engie is used when the gamemode gives the team a set up time to make use of. And by "is used" I mean having an engie on your team in that situation is outright meta.
>>739441182Wrangler
>>739442692>if you make the class worse the class would be worsegroundbreaking analysis
>>739442917>That's pyroPre JI you'd be right, but they overbuffed his burst damage and afterburn and flame particles (they are now basically blinding) that he got bumped up. Pyro is probably the 4th worst, Heavy is 3rd (previously 4th before the retarded nerfs), Engi 2nd, Spy #1 worst.
>>739442821I often forget this stupid shit exists
>>739442821People jerk off the wrangler which is useless post-nerf when this is actually the one and only "meta" option engi has. Shockingly good on payload and KOTH. I've teamwiped on Harvest with its altfire before.
fun police chart:>engineerfun police prime>sniperonly if they're good>heavyhard counters multiple fun classes, is basically a sentry with proper team support>medic kills the fun if your team doesn't have an equal amount of medics>spyexclusively annoying if your team is hard losing and you cannot physically afford to turn aroundthe rest are varying levels of fine
>>739443165
>>739443054pyro is still hard-countered by heavy and engineer in TF2 so I don't think so. This is even still the case in TF2C where Pyro has a bunch of additional strengths like stupid movement options and lifesteal. Flare gun can save him against heavy if the heavy is poorly positioned but he gets shut down so stupid hard by sentries
>>739443012that post says>Only one tool in his kit is relevant. Everything else is dog shit
>>739443423I've just never found it THAT annoying
>>739440746>Joins your Upward/Badwater/Pier server with their Medic GF (Male)>Tomislav Jump rev's every 0.5 seconds around every corner on the map>Parks his fat ass on the cart when not doing the above and holds mouse 1 all the way to last>Steamrolls so hard the game ends in 2-3 minutes, new map vote beings>Moves to another Upward/Badwater/Pier server>RepeatPeople don't hate Heavy mains enough.
>>739443706jump revving really isn't that bad because it cuts your damage and accuracy in half for a few secondshaving a buddy play medic and be glued to your ass the whole time will make any class insufferable. particularly demo and phlog pyros
>>739443706Heavy is easily the most raped class in the game. The problem isn't them, the problem is the majority of the userbase being complete fucking shit at playing the game and allowing every team their on to be steamrolled.
>>739443706>teammates being retarded and focus on killing heavy during the whole match instead of the medic
>>739443706Heavy mains are only aids if they have their medic bf with themPlaying against parties in general as a solo queue chad like myself sucks ass and not just in tf2
>>739440746Engineer isn't that bad anon, unless he's a faggot using wrangler while a second faggot goes engineer to bypass the whole weakness of the fag barrierOn a no fun allowed I'm a gay ass loser bitch tier it would probably goSniperPyroEngineerMedicSpyHeavyDemoScout Soldier
>>739443706An average sniper can completely shut even the best heavy out of the game
>>739441182"SWITCH OFF WHAT YOU'RE PLAYING TO SHUT ONE GUY DOWN"thats lame
>>739441052You lock down a room to place a forward teleporter(the real powerhouse of offensive engineer) in order for your entire team to effectively respawn faster by reducing travel time from spawn. Although its hard to keep spies off your shit in this day and age since you need a good pyro and teammates watching out for you.
>>739443706Heavy is one of those classes where you either steamroll the entire match or accomplish absolutely nothing depending on how retarded your enemies are
>>739440867Teleporters win games and I say that as a guy that hates playing the Texan
>>739443706>>739444161I will rage heavy when the enemy team either has too many scouts so i equip natascha or theres no good power classes for my medic to latch onto.
>>739440867Engineer is strong for the simple fact that most players are retards who blast music while playing not hearing the beeping level 3>t. Retard to blares music in his ears while playing
Some based posts ittFinally, it's about time we stop pretending defensive power house classes like heavy and engineer are weak. I knew /v/ would git gud one day.
>>739443706Tomislav is one of like 3 weapons in the game that actively piss me off even just seeing somebody use it, and the fact retards from reddit pretend stock even comes close to it is like the biggest gaslight I've ever seen in the game. God I hate that straight upgrade faggot shit so much it's unreal
>>739445080>t. shitter Soldier Knowing how to rocket hop off walls will demolish any pub server easily
>>739444381>do not fuck with this personthis was done by a 14 year old overweight neckbeard in the making
>>739441052That’s like saying sniper is useless because he’s not great in cramped winding maps. And much like sniper engie has a janky unlock that solves that issue
>>739440746SPAHS SAPPIN MAH SENTRY
>>739444381That spy one is eerily accurate
>>739445206Why would you do that on pubs? You want full hp and full ammo at pubs preferably with overheal not jump in the middle of 12 players and die.
>>739443005it's still pretty trivial with stickies>kill engie by arcing your bombs high enough>sentry is now useless for 3 seconds>kill sentry>>739444671That's on some level just TF2's asymmetrical class design. I'd argue you still don't really need to switch off anything other than the "offense classes" (pyro might be an exception ill give you that, but it has more to do with him being underpowered than anything). Some classes are better at killing others and some are worse
>play KotH match>see spy on team top scoring (again)>decide to see how many backstabs he got to cheese the scoreboard>dealt zero backstabs>still managed to get the most kills by farSometimes I think about that guy
>>739443706I love playing heavy but the tomislav is straight up so broken and unfair that I never use it. I think less of players who do
>>739445191>>739445619it is incredible that Valve made a weapon that counters nearly all of heavy's downsides >deploys quickly>is quiet>is good at rangeall they needed to do was make it give you a speed boost and reduce your hitbox size by half
>>739445618Gunspy strong. I wish my aim wasn't utter dogshit so I could be this man, too.
>Weakest class in the game by far.How would you fix him?
>>739445618There's a special brand of spy that will just go gun spy and they have 1000 hours in that playstyle. Kind of cringe, because they're just a shittier scout at that point, but they have DR.
>>739441052Offense Engi is really strong especially if you play more of a hunt and bait build. Teleporters are invaluable, a level 2 sentry in chokepoints and around corners can completely disable defense pushes while being relatively easy to build if you use the jag.People often underestimate the good ol' shotgun and pistol too.His only weakness when played this way is when the defense team has a bunch of spies but this usually works anyway because if they're fucking around with you they're not playing a more useful denial class and not backstabbing your team.
>>739445191Glad it's not just me who hates the Tomislav. I wouldn't care so much if literally every fucking Heavy that used it weren't exact clones of each other in how they play the game as well. Though to be fair that's just a design flaw of Heavy. Since the only skill expression of the class is knowing how to jump rev and track your targets. The highest level of skill being when you learn heavies bullets come out of his mouth so you can just hide behind props to avoid damage. Once you learn those 3 things there's nothing left to learn. Though using the Tomislav on top of that just makes every single Heavy into the exact same cookie cutter bullshit with no difference between players that I hate it.
>>739441052Have fun pushing without a tele moron
>>739445191>>739445619>>739445676The tomislav is one of those weapons you’d think would majorly shake up heavy’s gameplay but just ends up being stock but slightly better in most cases. Unironically short of fat scunt the brass beast is probably the closest you can get to a different play style
>>739445865>Unironically short of fat scuntI really just wish they made a beefier Family Business or whatever for the primary slot, doesn't need to be any better than the scattergun really. Is it kinda stupid and self defeating for heavy? Yeah, but TF2 weapon design post 2007 has been more about what sounds cool than what's actually good for the game
>>739443165medic is only fun police if he is using the vaccinator, in which case he deserves castration for being a massive faggot
>>739445191>>739445676I get the sentiment but the amount of times i have shredded some australium tomislav user with stock purely because tomifags are incapable of not jump reving every 2 seconds will not be funny
>kill a guy once>he starts writing novels in chatwhywhy is one of these on every server now? I feel like it didn't use to be this way
>>739443706>jump rev everywhere like a retard>get absolutely shredded to pieces in a DPS race when he does this into any other heavy that's pre-revvednice strat, dumbass.
>>739445728You don't. Spy is perfectly fine as is. People seem to want Spy to be able to solo entire servers when that's just not what he's designed to be. He's supposed to be a pick class that kills one or two high priority targets and fucks off to hide. Not some class that can go toe-to-toe with any other class in the game.>t. Spy mainIf you want a "fixed" Spy. Look at every retard using Kunai and Dead ringer. You get an unkillable demi-god that farms f2p's for health while using DR damage resistance to tank everything and bully entire teams.
>>739443165Every class in this game can be fun police. You think a scunt hopping around and expecting you to try to catch him while you're facing 5 of the enemies isn't the ultimate fag?
>>739444381I know the suffering of that medic. I've lived it. I am him. No one ever fucking picks medic.
>>739446085Too much estrogen in the playerbase nowIf it isn't saying the same pervert lines to signal to other perverts that they should shit up the chat, it's endless copes trying to play lawyer for themselves whenever they get killed (nobody gives a shit)
>>739444381Demo is literally me except for the third part
>>739446135I like Kunai since it actually gives him something that sniper doesn't do but better. I still remember the seethe I caused once killing a medic, surviving a headshot, killing a heavy, surviving a second headshot, killing a demo, surfing a rocket and landing a backstab on the sniper that headshot me twice. He called me a dumb cheating fat nigger and left the serverI died because I was laughing too hard in real life to move my characterGod what a great game
>>739443706>>739446084I exclusively use the stock minigun and I get more dopamine from shredding tomifags in heavy v heavy battles than I would benefiting from whatever upsides the tomislav offers. It's the same reason I always run the homewrecker on pyro: I derive more enjoyment fucking over spies by whacking their sappers off than I would using the powerjack to move very slightly faster sometimes.
>>739445848>push 10m>teleporter is now useless since the entrance was left at the previous spawn
>>739446003just give him a beefed up version of the pre-jungle inferno panic attack as a primary. it was stupid and didn't work with half the classes it was on but but fuck man it was fun and i wish something resembling it was still in the game. i cobbled together this image in like 5 minutes and i'd unironically use it if it was in the game
>>739446990I know what you mean, it's gratifying to shut down Heavies who are too used to destroying with the Tomislop and they get fucked against the stock.
>>739447013oh no now you have to walk 15 seconds to the forward spawnthis is only an issue if the engie is retarded or hasnt played the map and doesnt know when the spawns move up
>>739446508Kunai on it's own really isn't such a bad thing. Same with the Dead Ringer, they let spy do some new wild shit that I can really appreciate. The problem lies in combining the two. A spy should not get as much health as a soldier for getting a single stab, then use the DR damage resistance which is 75% for a couple seconds into 65% for a few more seconds If I remember correctly? So they can tank an entire teams attacks. I'm terrible at math but the 210 max kunai hp plus 75% into 65% DR damage resistance combined is like 370-380 hp total? If not more. Maybe someone good at math can get the exact number, but it's still insane. Spy should NEVER be able have more effective health than a fucking heavy.
>>739442692Yeah and if Soldier didn't have a rocket launcher he'd be shit too
>>739447350And engineer wouldn't be much different without his trash turret
>>739447529slow scout with teleporter and dispenser would still be invaluable assets to the team
>>739447232the fact that manually destroying your entrance levels it down to 1 makes me not want to bother moving it to be honest
>>739443054>(they are now basically blinding)No one competent is dying because they can't see through the flame particles. I dunno why people feel the need to commit credibility suicide by saying they can't see when a pyro attacks them.> Heavy is 3rd (previously 4th before the retarded nerfs), Engi 2ndThe whole GRU situation proved that Heavy is actually considered quite powerful when rollout isn't an issue. This is also shown in prolander games where you'll see heavy get used whenever there isn't a long journey from spawn. And again, Engie is literally meta when there's a set-up timer to take advantage of. This has always been the case.
>Top 3 Payload maps1) Hoodoo 2) Venice 3) Wutville>Top 3 Attack/Defend1) Junction 2) Snowplow 3) Gorge Event (ONLY the event)>Top 3 Control Point1) Orange_x3 2) Fastlane 3) Hydro>Top 3 KOTH1) Megaton 2) Suijin 3) Cloak>Top 1 CTF1) Turbine Center>Top 5 Overall1) Itemtest 2) Target 3) Brickyard 4) District 5) Timbertown>Best OverallBackground01
>>739447841GRU should have never been nerfed. "H-he's too fast with no downsides!". Who really cares, he's going in fast to get raped even faster.
>>739443165>exclusively annoying if your team is hard losing and you cannot physically afford to turn aroundExtremely annoying if you're not on a map/gamemode that allows extreme proximity within your team, because some retard will just bumrush you and "trickstab" aka facestab you constantly no matter what you do because 300° of your character model is "the back" and that will never get fixed.Scout is also top of the line utter bullshit when you get those 5000 hours sweatlords who can 2 shot you immediately every single time.One of the biggest benefits of Engi is that the sentry keeps those pathetic degenerates away because the sentry doesn't care how much you've wasted your life on hours of aim trainers every day for the last 10 years, you still get fucked like a bitch for being one.
>>739448520what are you talking about the GRU got away pretty scot-free after the change>damage penalty removed>self mark for death removed>sacrifice max health to go fast. if you're moving in you should just be holstering them before combat anyway. if you are running from combat, you are already missing that max health so it doesn't actually make you die fasterthe only thing that's tangibly changed is that reduced max health makes overheal and healthpacks less valuable while your HP is lowered. big fucking whoop. the bigger casualty is that they turned the eviction notice into a bad GRU that doesn't even have a niche anymore.
>>739448981There's also the minor technique where you can intentionally drain your health with the gru if you have less than 100 health and then eat the banana, which will restore you to your lowered max and scale back up to 300. Probably works well enough with the chocolate too now that I think about it.
>>739448520> he's going in fast to get raped even fasterThat's the very thing the GRU ended up disproving, this myth that heavy is this weak class. It's very common to see him top servers in pub games so people were just talking about 6s when they claimed that. But then GRU happened and it made running heavy in 6s viable enough for compfags to suddenly have a problem and feel the need to ban the GRU.The realisation with heavy is he's just a giant anti-fun class. He has the same shutting down of movement effect sentries have but unlike sentries he's not bound to a fixed location (and unlike engie he's not that interesting a class to make up for it). To that end there's suddenly a desire to limit his travel speed simply to reduce how much presence he has in the battlefield so more fun can be had.
>>739440746>Meet The Scout advertises Scout as being so fast that he can dodge Sentry bullets>Not only can he not, Engineer vs Scout is the single most lopsided match-up in the entire gameSentry turn speed should be severally reduced so it matches the trailers.
>>739441052>engineer is borderline useless on payload offense unless your team is retardedBadwater.
>>739447013So your point of failure has to first assume your team is winning.
>>739450313sentries already turn slow enough as it isif anything the bigger issue is that the wrangler gives them instant turning speed, disables the sentry's idle beeping, and the massive fucking shield
>>739444381sometimes I go sticky jumper demo on Upward and exclusively sticky jump to enemy spawn to pipe their teleporter entrances to shit and taunt when the engi has to walk the whole way back to rebuild them
>>739450663this strat no longer works so long as the engineer has more than 3 brain cells.eureka effect has been a humongous asset for any map where the teleporter is critical to the team's successwhere's my fucking strange eureka effect, valve?
>>739449801The problem with your argument is that you're sourcing the player pool for stating that Heavy is stronger than he actually is. The player pool, especially in 2026, is incredibly dogshit at the game. You could top as gun spy if you were good on any pub server, because that's how garbage players are now. >Soldier rapes him>Demo rapes him>Sniper super rapes him>Spy rapes him Even a good scunt could rape him if they knew how to bunny hop around him. He's only a viable kill machine with a medic stapled to his ass, and demo and soldier don't need that kind of crutch to wipe the floor with people.
>This guy crouch walks up to you and slaps your ass with a sandvich What do?
>>739445728Well for one thing fix the various bugs he has which they actually just did yesterday.They FINALLY fixed disguises glitching out like being a demo with no legs. Im serious.
>>739440746You and me, hossSENTREH GO GO DOWN 'N' UP 'N' DAMMIT GOTTA MOVE - THAT - GEARTHIS THING AIN'T ON AUTOPILOT DAMMIT GOTTA MOVE - THAT - GEARHOLD IT SPAH don't touch that SENTREH DAMMIT GOTTA MOVE - THAT - GEAR
>>739450614>sentries already turn slow enough as it isNot in an actual practical way. You can only avoid sentries if you’re directly next to them and constantly circling around them. In 99.99% of scenarios, the sentry is far enough away that being locked on is essentially unavoidable by movement alone.
>>739441052kek i love playing engineer on payload offensive because teleports mean faster push
>Two Short Circuit Engis on the payload cart working in tandem to shoot infinite energy orbs
>>739443706IIIIIIIIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>739452082THAT HEAVY'S A BLOODY - SENTRY - WOOAAHOHOHOHOAAAHAHAHAHOOOOHOHOOOOO
>>739444671That's how TF2 works you dumb zoomie. You're not meant to just play 1 thing nonstop for the entire match. The class design and balance encourages class switching.
>>739451240headshot
>>739452008fucking over projectilefags is peak tf2, wouldnt have it any other way
>>739451832here's a bit of information that you may find fairly practical: sentries turn at the same rate not just rotationally, but up-down as well.They also always target the center of mass of the target.Using this information together, you can actually "dodge" a sentry with clever crouching and jumping as you approach it, since it'll not be able to lock onto you until you're close enough to circle-strafe it.The consequences of fucking up is that you are already airborne and will be flung into the skybox, but if you get good at doing it you can do some remarkable things so long as the sentry isn't already facing in your direction when it first attempts to track you.It's especially worth knowing this information as Pyro, since literally all other classes can just outrange the damn thing.
>>739442605>support and healing>soldierlolthis nigga is saying conch is the same level of healing as medic
>>739451107>The problem with your argument is that you're sourcing the player poolYes you do in fact use the players who play this game to determine what is or isn't strong. That's common sense. You might have a point if you were talking exclusively pubs but I already pointed out this got disproven with compfags as well.>You could top as gun spy if you were good on any pub server, because that's how garbage players are now.It's not a question of what can be done but to what extent. When asking for easy ways to fuck up pubs no one suggests gun spy. It can be done doesn't mean just anyone can do it.>Soldier rapes him>Demo rapes himPeople say this and yet every 6s team being half those didn't prevent 6s fags from feeling like they needed to ban the GRU. It's probably safe to say he gets fucked hard by crits (which compfags didn't benefit from) from those two but then we're then leaving it up to chance>Sniper super rapes himFull agree, problem is you need someone who can actually play sniper.>Spy rapes himThe big oversight. Heavy play properly always has a medic watching his back and his own.
>>739452082>that scout hiding behind the crate
>>739440746sentries have blindspots and it's super easy to tear one down if you know what you're doing
>>739452778curious how you think the dichotomy between pub heavy and comp heavy is random crits and not the fact that there are only 5 players who can do damage to the guy.the real reason that comp players don't like the GRU is the prisoner's dilemma. Which is the same reason a lot of specific weapons are banned like the vita-saw (pre-change) and the disciplinary action. Basically if one team runs it, the other team needs to match it or be left behind. It may not seem like much but 15% uber advantage after every exchange or getting both soldiers (or even the scouts/demo) to mid 3 seconds faster is quite a big deal.
>Play KoTH> Your team gets completely annihilated>Your team can't even put a pinky toe on the cap pointWhat do you do to give your team a fighting chance?
>>739452082what desert map has the snowycoast cart?
>>739440746Switch to soldier and click the gun twice
>>739453570
>>739453541That's Hightower
>>739453217>and not the fact that there are only 5 players who can do damage to the guy.So we're acknowledging that the two soldiers and one demo among the five don't rape him then?>the real reason that comp players don't like the GRU is the prisoner's dilemmaThey literally said they don't like heavy being runnable to mid because he makes the game less fun, which also acknowledges he isn't a weak class because if he was then him being runnable to mid wouldn't be happening. If it was a case of "if it's allowed then everyone would be using it" then a number of weapons in the game like the crossbow would have been bannned.
>>739445728what's the deal with people wanting the class that can go invisible and instakill people to be stronger?Do you guys have any idea of how awful tf2 would be to play if spy was better than he presently is? Especially if any buffs end up snowballing with shit like the kunai. Spy being the weakest class is a good thing. Nobody wants to play that TF2 where spy is better than sniper, or medic, or demo, or engineer or even heavy and pyro.
>>739452175Ironic that you call that anon a zoomer since the idea of team fortress being about finding the class you like playing dates all the way back to the original quake mod.Tell me, how is a game where you're expected to stop playing what you find fun, supposed to be fun?
>>739446990>I derive more enjoyment fucking over spies by whacking their sappers off than I would using the powerjack to move very slightly faster sometimes.the powerjack enjoyment comes from how absolutely satisfying it feels to whip it out and one shot someone with a crit that not only kills them but gives you 25 health for them daring to approach you (i'll admit the original 75hp was way overpowered)the movement speed also ain't nothing to sneeze at man, with it out you run faster than a medic or spy period and you backpedal faster than most classes can even move forward. no one can escape
>>739453816Early 2010s' Annie Clark owes me sex
>>739453659whether you want to acknowledge it or not, 450 is a lot of health to churn through if you aren't also a heavy, buffed by kritz, or a sniper. and it's not like that heavy would be alone either, his entire team is also with him so you'll never truly be facing him in isolation unless he's the last man standing.the reason heavy and sentries get run at last fairly often is that their raw bulk demands enough of the attacker's firepower that the rest of the team can win the skirmish by having more total healthRemember that the GRU came into existence because valve wanted to shove heavy into comp play, thinking that he simply wasn't being run because getting to mid was painful, rather than any of the other factors that make heavy less appealing for the 5cp mode, and neglecting the times where he does actually fulfill his niche. But the comp scene wouldn't really galvanize that for over 10 years after release.Bans in comp are almost entirely down to whether it's fun for them or not. The reason crossbow and ubersaw are allowed is because it makes medic more fun and medic's other options are trash anyway. Disciplinary Action is banned because if you run it the other team needs to also run it in order to get to mid at the same time, and that's way less interesting of a dynamic than the Escape Plan and Market Gardener are, which do see frequent use for rollouts and bombs, which they feel is a healthier dynamic than "everyone runs DA"Things like class limits are also down to the same roots. Back in 2007 they did do stuff like double demoman and it was complete ass cancer trying to push through maps like granary when every single doorway had stickies and a demoman dedicated to locking it down.
>>739446990>move very slightly faster sometimeskind of underestimating how much faster 115% is compared to 100%, as well as how easy it is to just whip it out.
>>739441052Lowest of IQ takes>LVL 2 sentry is extremely powerful, automatically killing defenses pushes>Dispenser is excellent place for ammo and heals when cart is too dangerous + good place for natural team pushing to happen>TeleUse Eureka Effect and Jesus Christ you are unstoppable machine. If you want to be an absolute degenerate, take gunslinger + Short Circuit. Just gunslinger alone is a nice area denial tool and a distraction
>>739453831tf classes are just quake weapons on a broader scale. in quake if someone has the lightning gun, you don't run up to them and eat 2000 damage, you stay back and use your rockets/nails/nades/etc (depending on game). changing classes to deal with someone is no different other than taking longer to change
>>739454117>whether you want to acknowledge it or not, 450 is a lot of health to churn through if you aren't also a heavy, buffed by kritz, or a sniper. and it's not like that heavy would be alone either, his entire team is also with him so you'll never truly be facing him in isolation unless he's the last man standing.>the reason heavy and sentries get run at last fairly often is that their raw bulk demands enough of the attacker's firepower that the rest of the team can win the skirmish by having more total health>Remember that the GRU came into existence because valve wanted to shove heavy into comp play, thinking that he simply wasn't being run because getting to mid was painful, rather than any of the other factors that make heavy less appealing for the 5cp mode, and neglecting the times where he does actually fulfill his niche. But the comp scene wouldn't really galvanize that for over 10 years after release.I mean this is all agreeing with me so sure.>Bans in comp are almost entirely down to whether it's fun for them or not.Yeah, that includes their reason for banning the GRU (they find the game less fun when heavy is run to mid). I don't actually know what the reason for the DA ban is (honestly it is insaney good and overlooked by people), but if they have a problem with heavy being run to mid then it would make sense to ban DA because it can also get a heavy to midfaster.
>join game>one guy is blatantly cheating and has 5 times the score of the next guy with 6 dominations>but because he's playing fuckin shotgun heavy or widowmaker engie or something 'silly,' the other 22 players will just accept it because it isn't an obvious spinbotting sniper
>>739454647I told you why DA is banned. Because getting anyone to mid faster at zero cost (not just heavy) has a significant impact on how the mid fight plays out.They don't want the Soldier melee equip metagame to just be all of the same, so they decided to selectively restrict the DA from use.
>>739453831>NOOOO I WANT TO ONLY PLAY ONE THING AND DO ONE THING ONLY, OR ELSE I'M NOT HAVING FUNsounds like TF2 is not the game for you
>>739453625>has no splash damage.
>>739454635Still it's the actual stated goal of the mod, create a game that many different people would like playing because the different classes are meant to cater to different mindsets. The fact that the classes largely resemble the quake weapons is obviously more than anything else due to the limited means they had to make the mod.>>739454940There are people who have had thousands of hours in the game playing mainly one or two classes. How are there thousands of hours if the game wasn't for them?
>frrn? nrt hrrn mrr srrvhhrr>*builds phlog charge from behind the spawn grate and baserapes your whole team*
>>739455190ew
>>739455089>How are there thousands of hours if the game wasn't for them?They're autistic.
>try to make pyro work>everything fucks him over at medium range>in close range he's a free kill for scout>airblast is a cointoss because it's not about skill but predicting whether or not this random guy has fast reaction time or slow
>>739455702>>airblast is a cointoss because it's not about skill but predicting whether or not this random guy has fast reaction time or slowFucking hell I wish I didn't know this feelis there any other game out there that punishes you for having better reaction time than your opponent?
>>739453816I just want him to have a few quality of life buffs myself like cloak hiding footsteps, picking up ammo not triggering a noise, and actually stopping niggers so bad at tf2 they modify the decloak noise into ear rape for them so their sniper killstreak doesn't break
>>739456032parries have been a thing in fightan games for decades.that's just the nature of a skill that depends on your opponent throwing out an attack. it works out great if you can condition them though, rarely are these interactions a 1 time thing
>>739441052use jag and eureka effect retard
>>739455384So the game was in fact for them.
>>739455190why is it always pyro that this art comes from
>>739443706SAY GOODBYE TO YA HED WANKA
>>739453625>>*activates buff banner to oneshot medics and twoshot heavies from any range*This is the most satisfying thing to do in the whole game
>>739440746>government mandated invisible enemy or two casually completely shuts down this entire character with no counter-play
>>739451240>Thanks, soldier!
>>739457132pyro has always been the one class to attract people that want a gender bender variant ofwhat doesn't make sense is the amount of degenerate adjacent things piggybacking off of it. the hyper, the futa, the ponyshit, the actual shit. why can't we just enjoy faceless/masked women for fuck's sake?
>>739443706>Tomislav Jump rev's every 0.5 secondsmark of a shitter. the stock minigun chad who walks revved everywhere rapes this bozo.
>>739457902>stock minigun chad who walks revved everywherei unironically started top scoring servers when i did this. i dont know what it is but the retarded sounding playstyles give peak carnage
>>739457809Because big boobs and fat asses are fucking great.
nobody ever really thinks about how fucking broken teles are. cutting respawn times by 5-10s for your entire team is honestly stronger than having a medic in a lot of situations and engie gets a sentry and dispenser on top of that. engineer in general is a net negative on tf2 both gameplay and map design wise.
>>739440746Oh hang on, let me get the sentr- oh no, never mind. The enemy Sniper is preventing me and the rest of the team from playing the game. :)
>>739458159Making both dispensers and teleporters upgradeable is one of the most overlooked buffs in this game. Upgradeable dispenser broke the dispensers being intentionally bad for healing because the original design was meant to be that the bulk of healing came from medic culminating in ubers. Upgradeable teleporters broke the idea that the slow recharge of the teleporter was meant to prevent them from being able to cut respawn times by 5-10s for your entire team.
>>739457982turns out cutting your damage and accuracy in half constantly is a bad idea
>>739458159Bro, your spies? It's actually not that hard to get to spawn as a spy, even if you're poo poo at the game. I remember top scoring on Dustbowl stage 3 of all levels as spy just sapping teles endlessly, and that's one of the worst chokepoint maps in the entire game.
>>739445191I usew Natascha to delete scoots and demoknight fags
>>739458096yeah I agree but why the fuck do faggots keep putting a horsecock and farts on the masked big boobie woman?it doesn't need to be a mixed casserole of /d/ fetishes.
>>739458549>Bro, your spies? It's actually not that hard to get to spawn as a spy, even if you're poo poo at the gameby the time you walk there and wait for an opportunity where there are no respawning players to interrupt you his team have probably had the tele up for a full 2 minutes. I have lost a significant number of games going spy to deal with a tele. I finally get there only to watch my team wipe in the killfeed because they had 1 less power class to kill. even if you do get the tele if he's smart he can run eureka effect and instantly rebuild it. really what is this shit adding to the game? teles should not be so strong that your team is almost guaranteed to lose if someone does not swap to engie.
>>739458783hot women farting can be hotit's the contrast, man. plus pyro is clearly pretty immature
>>739458942If he Eurekas, then you sap and then shoot down the tele. He loses both entrance and exit. It's that simple.
>>739445728At minimum I'd give him faster respawn so dying as him doesn't feel too punishing
>>739459367if he doesn't try to unsap it at all which is unlikely.
>>739459517That's why you should be shooting down teles instantly anyway. You sap to drain some health then shoot and ensure at least the entrance goes down. He won't be able to repair quick enough if you do it quickly.
>>739459174I'd tell you to fuck off and eat shit but I have a feeling you'd be into that.Disgusting fucker you are.
>>739459759if you don't destroy the exit you're not keeping down the tele for very long. either way is it fun for spy to be the tele babysitter? it's probably one of the most impactful things he can do but it's boring as hell.
>>739459865>if you don't destroy the exit you're not keeping down the tele for very long.Doesn't matter, he still has to go back and build it up to lvl 3 again and leave his sentry unguarded. >either way is it fun for spy to be the tele babysitter?No, but you seem to be describing a situation where it's needed because they're pushing too fast. I don't think every game needs a tele babysitter unless your team is getting gaped with pushes. You do what you gotta do
>>739455384We're still playing a 20 year old game, we all are, anon
>>739440746>fun? not on my server>*picks soldier*
>>739459367the best way to keep a dedicated eureka effect engie pissed is to do the following>equip red-tape recorder and cloak and dagger>head to spawn>sap and gun down the entrance>the exit is now level 1 since you broke the entrance and is unbuilding. odds are he will unsap the exit>if he warps to spawn, he cannot warp to the exit because it's not done building yet>do this a few times and he will desperately try to catch you as you sap it.>take the teleporter into his nest before sapping. he will reflexively try to warp to spawn>sap everythingit helps to do callouts to the team too. the real way to stop a eureka engineer is to nail the exit. this along with taking forever to sap minis has been the only consistent use I've found for this useless sapper
>>739440746ERECTING A STATUE OF A MORON(I agree I hate engi)
>>739460028>Doesn't matter, he still has to go back and build it up to lvl 3 again and leave his sentry unguarded.it only takes a few seconds to teleport back to spawn and throw down a tele entrance. doesn't take long to upgrade it either at half cost. for this play to work either the engineer has to be oblivious to his sapped tele or you have to camp their spawn the entire time. it also has to be a spawn with enough room for you to get the tele without getting instantly killed by spawners.>No, but you seem to be describing a situation where it's needed because they're pushing too fast. I don't think every game needs a tele babysitter unless your team is getting gaped with pushes. You do what you gotta doif it was fun to do I guarantee you people would do it way more often. doubling the enemy's respawn times is a massive advantage. same reason no one wants to play med despite how powerful he is. none of this really addresses the fundamental problems with teles.>can easily win games on its own with very little effort on the engineer's part>if you focus on keeping the tele down it's not interactive or fun for either party>if someone doesn't go engineer your team will probably lose and you have a long boring walk from spawn every deathin the grand scheme of things teles make the game less fun. I would much rather engie have jump/speed pads. it would greatly simplify map design and speed up the flow of the game. this would also make engie more viable on fast paced maps like 5cp where tele setup is too slow.
>>739441520>Laughs in Short Circuit+M2.
>>739441052Bro? Your teleporters?
>>739440746spy is the only good class
the whole game isn't fun now that everything is nerfed into the floor and you only get to play on a map for 11 minutes
>>739440746
>>739458159mate teleports are pretty much the only things that make certain maps playable if you aren't one of the mobility classes and stop things from devolving into a complete stalemate>t. unironic heavy main
>>739445191I still ultimately prefer stock because all things being equal, stock WILL beat Tomislav close up.
>>739463057That's what I'm saying though. Someone has to play engie or you lose. Why should it be this way? Just make the maps smaller and nerf teles in some way.
>>739445191Tomislav is so fucking overrated. The DPS difference is marginal in most cases compared to the DPS you're losing up close at heavy's ideal range. See the chartshttps://www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/gf5d67/tomislav_and_stock_minigun_dps_data/Playing heavy to his strengths you should be putting yourself in positions to fight the enemy as close as possible. If you're not playing something like upward offense the extra range is not that impactful.
>>739461990Spy i think is one of the most unique and fun classes in any class based shooter, though i have a soft spot for hybrid knight with loose cannon and Huntsman
>>739463272probibally because the game's called TEAM fortress and lacking any class will screw you over to some degree with even the lone spy providing some unique value. also you need to completely remake most of the map seeing as they were designed engies teleporters
>>739464469>and lacking any class will screw you over to some degreeTF2 played optimally would be something like all demo with 3 medics.
>sucks to use>sucks to fight against>barely changes the class>looks like a stock reskin>solely is used to fuck over scuntsoh yeah it's gaming time
>>739464782Barely notice it as scunt since I never approach a heavy unless he's distracted or low on health anyway. As heavy I'd rather have stock against scunts. I only whip out natascha when there's multiple demoknights/trolldiers.
>>739441052>t. scout (he still uses the engie's teleporters)
>>739445728he's fun so it's fine. minor shit like immunity to the dumb on-spawn teammate wallhack and the ability to toggle disguise speed matching would be cool thoughbeit.
>>739459767>>739458783>stop liking things I don't like
>>739455702Pyro is a short range ambusher, you're not meant to just run at enemies in the open, you're supposed to use walls and cover to your advantage to ambush.
>>739460202>soldiers having fun?>switch to pyro>m2get rekt kid
>>739445728revert ambassador but only against snipers
>>739458783pyro has a fart emote
>>739445728Make his base health 150 hpRemove cloak damage and debuff resistanceCloak does not shimmer on touchBuff revolver base damage to 45Throwable sapper on cooldownSmoke grenade as a sapper alternativeLet him fake reloads with any weapon by holding RLet him run at full speed as any disguiseLots of bug fixes and QoL changesDelete the razorbackSome of his unlocks would probably need reworks. My more controversial ideas I'd like to see spy simplified so he's more intuitive to play. Make his disguise automatically swap to the weapon he has out and remove knockback resistance altogether since it rarely helps but makes surfing much harder.I also think it's worth testing a nerfed backstab angle. Maybe if you get a backstab from <10* or >170* it instead applies a powerful debuff or only does 80% of their HP instead. I personally don't have an issue with trickstabs but I understand that it's frustrating for players who don't understand latency/interp. This wouldn't get rid of trickstabs altogether just get rid of the most egregious ones.
>>739466141>*shoots floor*
>>739464782Trolldiers will get legit upset at you for using it too
>>739467313you have a minigun. if a soldier or demo tries to divebomb you stare at them and 9/10 they die. i don't know why we'd need a minigun mostly specialized for targets heavy can already easily deal with
>>739455702here are the ways you can play pyro>be an airblast bot for engie or the combo and spam flares when you have nothing better to do>fly into the stratosphere with jetpack and hope the enemy team doesn't look up as you land on their heads>get a pocket medic and uber into the enemy team with phlog>play like a crackhead with degreaser and fish for combo kills (you need godly DM skills and positioning for this)>rat by a cliff for airblast kills
>>739442605>no means of self-defensecan you not aim?
>>739467523Good trolldiers will try to highbomb to get past you once they realize you look up. Natascha makes them drop like a brick. It has its uses.
>>739464782it deletes scoots, demoknight fags, and trolldiers
>>739464782I exclusively use this on hightower while pushing the cart
