>ummm... so like... we're destroying the world because...... >anyways, I think you should live or something, like yeah totally!I genuinely don't understand women
She's the Nietzsche to Demi-fiend's Übermensch.
>>739453016The game acknowledges her being retarded
There is no story in nocturne, its the shittiest possible smt game i cant believe you retards like this one
>>739453841Filtered subhuman.
>>739453841V is the shittiest possible smt game though
>>739453902thisand I still liked it
>>739453016https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo2MbWBkVJo
>>739453016I gotta replay this.I went for Chiaki's reason 'cuz she's hot but that was stupid, survival of the fittest is stupid.Just gonna go with the true demon ending next time.
>>739453016am i just supposed to guess what game youre fucking talking about
>>739454016Yes.You have four attempts remaining.
>>739454016yesfuck off zoomer
>>739453992Why in the goddamn would you believe anyone who deliberately chooses to wear joots?
>This is SMT nowis this a good thing or a bad thing?
>>739454104Isn't that a dude
>>739454197>Isn't that a dudeyes, and?
>>739454104its a good thing
>>739454016>I dont play videogames but I want to be a part of every discussionwhat's wrong with you
>>739454247https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_9MthGzwk
>>739454104
Somewhat SMT related but I've been watching a lot of media where it's the whole "antagonist wants to re-create the world so it's perfect and the protagonist says no status quo is king" and I expected more nuanced takes online on this but most of the time people just regurgitate the same dumb arguments that the status quo is always better. Why the fuck are people like this? Why are neutralfags the biggest fucking fenceshitters to ever live?
>>739454386i dont even play games but what if i wanted to look up a lets play of it and discuss it that way?
>>739454501recreation to my image = satanfollow god = you're a christcuckneutral is the safe bet but its cringeWhite ending is best.
>>739453016She was sick of the world but thought a couple of kids from her class were ok so she told them to come to the hospital tomorrow.
>>739454104Yuko-sensei...
>>739454104It's a bad thing and it clearly damaged the brand and its community. You don't see people talking about SMT no more, you only see this freak's gay porn being posted.I'm going to start a group with a bunch of /v/irgins and we're going back in time to destroy Atlus in 2015.
>>739454501>oh my god youre so boring picking neutral where society continues to function, why dont you pick order where everyone is a soulless emotionless automaton to farcically create a perfect society or chaos where people murder rape each other if they feel like it, its like wayyyyyyy more interestingshut up bitch.
>>739454731you might be right
>>739454729lol was meant to reply to op
>>739454501You don't use commas, so you're obviously a Demon.Do not listen to this poster my fellow men. You're a troubled creature, the World you'd create would have more flaws and Chaos in it, and you know it. Don't let your pride subdue your better judgement.
>>739454729Men live in apartments like this and don't see any issue.
>>739454501Neutral is the alignment of last men, of passive nihilists resigned to their lot in life, lacking amor fati, mediocre and conformist.
>>739454991>Men who live in apartments like this don't see any issueftfy
>>739454104The nahobino looks like a retarded fag, Twitter secondaries do not matter.
>>739454991I do see an issue, it's too big
>>739453902V's got Beano, which make it at least a 7/10 for me.
>>739455289ok faggot
>>739454529Then we don't want you posting in the thread, you can lurk without posting until you play the game.
Destroying the world because your sexy teacher said so is actually good.
>>739454501An imperfect being cannot create a perfect world.
Fuck cars
>>739454758fuck off retard. sure, there's extremes in SMT but I think in general people just go "durrr status quo is king!!!!!!!">>739455026YEAH!>>739455514so we're just cool at imperfect beings fucking shit up for other people because lol i have mine fuck you
>>739455592this but unironically. I think way too many people are out there driving that shouldn't be. Cars are unironically weapons of mass destruction and we shouldn't be giving them to fucking grandmas who are either putting PEDAL TO THE METAL in a school zone or pansy ass stupid bitches who just stop right in the middle of the road because they missed their turn.
>>739455351I CANT PLAY IT UNTIL I KNOW THE NAME OF THE GAME YOUS TUPID FUCK
>>739454016Nocturne, one of the most overrated SMT in the series.
>>739456079here anon let me help you
I just find it incredible that they keep fucking up chaos endings in SMT to the point where there's only like two games where choosing chaos makes sense.
>>739456310Both SMT V chaos ending is good.
>>739456310>SMT2>SMT3 (? I mean I like Freedom the most instead of TDE....)>SMT4A (Sorta? I don't know if you'd call it chaos)>SMT5>Nine (Don't remember much of it but I remember the chaos ending was relatively okay compared to most SMT chaos endings)>SJ1 (Chaos Ending is just pretty much similiar to "Neutral" except all your Chaos buddy wants to do is punch God in the face. If you go Good Chaos, there's pretty much no downside.)>SJ2 (I don't know which one you'd consider the chaos ending lol but Meritocracy isn't a bad idea. COMMUNISM is good if it's kept in check too)
>>739456474>>SMT2Cucked Mentality. Neutral is more dignified.
i think true endings make the choice meaningless
Chaos isn't inherently evil whatsoever, if anything chaos is just a soft reset of power where only truly strong establish the rules and decide for themselves what they want, it doesn't mean that a weak person wouldn't be protected by the strong and etc. Just an unfair world where more is dependent on someone's agency. I like SJ's portrayal of chaos aligned characters.
>>739456938SJR?I only beat SMT2 Law (fucking terrible choice btw, fuck you Zayin I trusted your bitch ass and you were so cool too). I should replay on Neutral and Chaos.
>>739454104With the snake bull context from vengeance him being androgynous makes more sense
>>739454104Him being androgynous makes sense, since this is his form after fusing with a divine entity, however they could've made him more Beautiful/otherworldly/magnificent/inspiring aweInstead of putting him in a faggy sentai suit and calling it a day.
>>739454501You have to kill billions and the new world usually sounds like it could be worse in time if not right away.I'm more sympathetic to outright nihilism like the white because it doesn't serve anyone's vain idea of how everyone else should act and it can't progress to something worse.
>>739454016>am i just supposed to guessYes, lurk more newfag
>>739456938Chaos is pussified enough to be no more violent than neutral in 2. 2 has fucking demon dragon quest towns with shops and bars. most sapient demons are just basic people in that game.
>>739457164SJ was weird because the hispanic guy started on the chaos life because he felt sympathy for the weak and abused bugaboo. Then after a while he's standard survival of the fittest chaos guy with no reflection of what changed? Being able to say what about bugaboo is the main thing I liked in sjr
>>739458152>bugaboo dies in the mall>lol we can just revive him>bugaboo going to die in the merc area>WE MUST SAVE HIMwhat
>>739457164so basically chaosfags are just naive
>>739454501Kind of interesting thing there’s a game that has this idea that the anime went against the main idea. The game the party wants to destroy the world and recreate it better because humanity are slaves/2nd class citizens to furries. The game ending they do it and happily ever after. the anime however punks out and they say ‘no I love the world like it is’ and they don’t go through with it
>>739453016
>>739458969Is it good? I'll probably check it out.
>>739458969I liked the anime.
>>739453992obligatory
>>739459109I remember liking it but it’s been a long time I think I played it around 15 years or longer ago. I still haven’t played it myself but apparently it was made by a couple of the guys who worked on Xenogears if that’s interesting at all. I think the combat is sort of similar too? With the combos on the face buttons >>739459240I remember being annoyed that the protagonist was turned into a pussy that couldn’t fight when in game he’s fighting the whole time. Also the ending change I hate too
>>739456310choosing chaos should never make sense
>>739459592>I remember being annoyed that the protagonist was turned into a pussy that couldn’t fight when in game he’s fighting the whole time. Also the ending change I hate tooI didn't play the game so if I did, I'd probably agree with you and think it was shit. The OP was very catchy.https://youtu.be/7Sxaj2532gA
>>739459070love hags
>>739454104phatter
>>739454731>t.
>>739453016RETURN THE ORIGINAL WORLD BUT MAKE MY TEACHER MY WIFE. DO SO IMMEDIATELY, YHVH.
MAG > STR
Total human genocide is pretty bad but did you know that humans driving cars is basically them committing their own little self genocides every day. So if you think about it killing all humans is fine.
>>739460698
>>739459783I remember the DS opening really sticking with me because I thought it looked really good for a ds game. US version definitely didn’t have this track though probably just replaced it with something generic lol https://youtu.be/HP4bsxzCtxkIf it piques your curiosity more about something the anime also skipped/changed the attached image is the protagonist during his ult towards the end of the game (had to get a screen grab off youtube couldn’t find this anywhere else)
>>739454501at least in 4 and SJ they make it a point that law and chaos give control to the demons while neutral keeps humans in charge
>>739453841It's the fact that the story is so minimal that makes this game the best in the series. 4 has a terribly paced story. 5 has a mediocre story. SJ is good. 4A is a joke lol. Nocturne has everything going for it in all departments.
>>739461280Anyone who says smt3's story is bad is the kind of person who needs things spelled out to them.
>>739460008Is this picrel actually in q2, I would play the game
>>739461251Based pique knower
>>739453673every single one of them are massive hypocrites and that's the point.
>>739461816Q2 has the p3 FEMC coming to terms with the fact she's non-canon and fading out of existence.
>>739460698Landing elemental weaknesses hits some kind of ancestral dopamine nerve because that shit never gets old.
I only played SMTV and SMTIV and I prefer SMTIV. The Whites is my choice. Every SMT game should have a true final ending where you erase everything imo. Both chaos and law are for stupid people.
It's crazy how much SMTV Vengeance improved the "story" by just having the characters hang out and occasionally talk to each other, + the increased emphasis on guest characters.
>>739458152>after a whileYou mean when he becomes demon, and suddenly starts thinking and acting like one?
>>739453841>Playing SMT for the story
>>739454104that's a young man
>>739456310SMT4's Chaos Route was good until Lucifer hijacked Walter's route and had to be a giant retard.
>>739463075Walter and Jonathan seem quite reasonable reps, they're not even at each other throats and quite friendly with you and each other. As soon as that rushed third happens though and suddenly Walter goes "uhhh you know what LILITH PUSSY IS MINE" and Jonathan goes YEAH YOU KNOW WHAT TAKE MY BODY ANGELS!!!! the plot just pretty much disappears. Quite disappointing desu. I still think 1 is probably the "best"* story in an SMT game but I will admit to having a soft spot for 4 and 4A. Especially 4A, that and DS1/DS2 scratched well.
>>739463085
>>739463435Law has a satisfying way of wrapping things up despite the strange conclusions Johnathan comes to, Lucifer straight up burns, pillages, and rapes Mikado harder than Constantinople, hands you the broom, and tells you to clean that shit up.
>>739463085>>739463908still this unironically >>739455927 seriously, why the fuck are there so many people on the road that shouldn't be on there. walkable cities should be a damn thing.
>>739464005>satisfying way of wrapping things up????????
>>739462617How many times can you do "everything but neutral erases all thought and judgement forever"
I will end it thus
>>739463435In most of the games including 4 law and chaos are basically fail states where you've lost your mind to extemism. It's fully intentional that Walter and Jonathan went nuts
>>739464104Law and Chaos are handing the world over to abstract, nonhuman beings, what do you expect?
>>739464175No.
>>739464175other games handle the transition better, 4 is clearly rushed and their sudden succumbing to their respective alignments is too abrupt to make sense
>>739464065I liked punching Lucifer in the face.
>>739465110you liked committing genocide too??
>>739455514>so let's leave it to god, who created a perfectly shitty world
>>739458292>one involves Bugaboo dying>the other involves Bugaboo being tortured for literally zero reason
>>739465438Nah, just punching Lucifer was fun.
>>739455026>law end is always retard and eventually someone will kick the yellow face off his throne>chaos end always ends up becoming law at the endall endings are bad no matter how you look at it
>>739465438And? You don't want to punch Lucy in the face?
Is SMT like Pokemon where you have weaknesses and resistances?
>>739466573Its pokemon where you need to spam Leer and Sword Dance while using weakness attack as a main strategy
>>739465438>you liked committing genocide too??Both Law and Chaos regularly commit genocide.Law is about tyrannical authoritarian control.Chaos is about absurd levels of rebellion (which then leads to tyrannical authoritarian control).This is the Mandala that Lucifer was talking about in SMT5 but for SOME FUCKING REASON not a single player understood this very simple concept....And then there's Neutral.
>>739466573yes and noyou don't need to keep a type chart in mind, and resistances can reflect or absorb hp on hit too.
>>739466620For real or are you joking?
>>739466764Are you trying to tell us the only JRPG you've ever played is Pokemon?
>>739466759How do you now what to use? Trial and error?I hate that shit.
>>739466573Weaknesses, resistances, nulls, and reflects. Striking weaknesses is essential to the game at higher difficulties (generally viewed by the community as the intended difficulty).Striking a weakness or getting a critical hit only spends half a turn. Hitting a null or reflect costs an entire extra turn in addition to that one. Both your party and the enemy behaves with these rules.Status effects can be devastating, but unlike most RPGs, most bosses tend to be vulnerable to at least one type of status that you can exploit.
>>739466764That is the exactly how every boss fight is like. You have to debuff them while buffing your own. Attack that cause weakness will give you an extra turn while giving them something that they resist will make you lose a turn. Every team has a debuffer regardless.
>>739466871yeah and it's extra punishing because you lose turns if you hit a null, repel or absorb.
>>739466646You realize the angels killed most of the high schoolers to prevent the creation of Nahobinos, right?No humans are safe from the angels as long as the throne exists. V is a neutralwank game.
>>739466848Yes. I tried playing FF7 and 12 back in the day but dropped them. I'm on my way to beat Chrono Trigger on DS but I'm using a walkthtrough.I just don't like the gameplay despite loving Pokemon to death for some reason.>>739466975Jesus. Guide it is, then.
>>739467028
>>739466998>You realize the angels killed most of the high schoolers to prevent the creation of Nahobinos, right?Yeah it's a joke image, angels deserve just as much shit as demons in SMT.>>739467028Watch some gameplay videos or try a demo or something. The gameplay is WAY more fluid than Pokemon. In Pokemon every single action takes ages.
>>739467028Despite how overly complicated we just told you how the Press Turn system is, its flows extremely well, making extremely fast pace.
>>739457752>Instead of putting him in a faggy sentai suit and calling it a day.Doi nervously sweating as he tries to come up with a single other idea
>>739467183I fucking love how well SMT5's attack animations line up.My biggest pet peeve is turn based games not having characters HIT eachother.
>>739467107I already bought SMTV.>>739467105It is what it is, it's just not interesting to me. I like the art, the narrative and maybe other things, but I dislike the gameplay of rpgs, it's boring.Pressing a button to have your character do something cool on his own is like having a bull fuck your wife. Very off putting.
>>739467251well SMT5 was made for you. After you've defeated an enemy once, their weaknesses are always displayed from then on.
>>739467251you are genuinely mentally ill and need to stop using the internet
When Vengeance was announced I was saying they should've just scrapped V's story and that it was unsalvageable but I think they actually succeeded just by letting the characters talk to each other more
>>739467414Leaving Base game with VV is pretty nice. Its two RPG in one game, but with all the proper QoL stuff. Shame the fuck up Raidou's relaunch so badly.
>>739467306Because I like doing cool things myself?
>>739467414SMT5 failed at first for trying to ape SMT3 but did it poorly.SMT3 was good because you were separated from the characters for long periods of time, and when you saw them again, you got a glimpse of the shit they've been through, their developments felt natural and the conclusions they came to made sense given their circumstance and the MC's outside observations.You can't do the same thing if the MC and characters are going to school together and in the same organization.
>>739453902true dropped it after 5 hours
>>739467586I don't think you understood what v was doing if you thought it was trying to ape nocturne.
>>739467694I don't think you understood 5 at all if you don't realize all the connections, parallels, copies and extended plot lines from 3 weren't intentional. It's a yin-yang thing.
>>739467251Nigga you just gotta scan the enemy in SMTV
>Takes a selfie during his idle animationActually fucking peak, they saved this game
>>739467492>Shame the fuck up Raidou's relaunch so badly.They released all the QoL improvements after I already platinumed it lol
>>739454104Beano was a good thing
>>739468057A shame I benched all the humans since their kits were pretty mediocre for when you get them. Yoko was the only one worth using over demons.
>>739468057>Has a Cat GILf on his team Definitive proof Dazai is the best character.
>>739468124is that a gay
>>739468225He also correctly identifies how good Cirronup is.
>>739468225Demons are all old
>>739453841I AM THE LORD AND SAVIORI HAVE YOUR BACK TO THE WALLSURVIVE THE FALL FROM GRACEDRINK OF THE WINE OF THE WRATH OF GODONE MORE GOD REJECTED
>>739468427>*I AM THE BUG INSIDE YOU
>>739468584Wrong, why would it be the magatama talking if every other line is biblical?
>>739468639>Wrong, why would it be the magatama talking if every other line is biblical?You don't think parasites inject religious nonsense in your head in real life?
The whole point of Nocturne's human cast is that the Conception completely breaks them. None of their Reasons are meant to build a functional society; they're just extreme coping mechanisms for surviving the apocalypse. Chiaki goes full social Darwinist because she felt helpless, Isamu literally just wants to NEET it up in total isolation because he's a coward, and Hikawa just wants everything to shut the fuck up forever.That's exactly why TDE (True Demon Ending) is the go-to choice for almost everyone. Why hand the reins of creation over to three traumatized weirdos when you can just embrace the Magatama, reject their bullshit, and ride down the elevator to punch God in the face?Also, people up-thread are completely right about the combat. Nothing beats the feeling of the Press Turn system finally clicking once Matador filters you into learning what Sukukaja does. Still peak Megaten.
>>739454501Status quo is fine. Most people just want to live mediocre lives, enjoy transient pleasures and then die. Its not supposed to be perfect or ideal, its just a bunch of people with free will trying to cohabitate. Most of the time it doesn't work and there is conflict, but thats part of the ebb and flow
>>739455289Why are faggots literally the only people who defend V?
>>739468817Hikawa already had his autistic reason before the conception, he's the one who brought it in the first place.
>Pressing a button to have your character do something cool on his own is like having a bull fuck your wifeMost mentally stable RPG hater.
>>739468776The lyrics are from Metatron.
>>739468817The only reason everyone defaults to TDE is because it's the only way to fight Lucifer, and you're locked in just from completing the labyrinth unless you purposely know to avoid it.
>>739468889Fair point, I'll give you that one. He was already a psycho cult leader pulling the strings with the Ring of Gaea before the hospital even happened.But honestly, that just makes him worse than the other two. Chiaki and Isamu at least have the excuse of being dumb teenagers who got traumatized by watching the world literally fold in on itself while being hunted by demons. Hikawa looked at regular human society, decided "wow, people having conflicting opinions is annoying," and genocided the entire planet just to enforce a sterile, boring-ass matrix where everyone is a literal unthinking cog in a machine.TDE still remains the only based choice.
>>739468124With all the half-baked mods to turn Beano into a chick, I'm surprised no one just slapped on Sahori over him.
>>739469004I don't want him to be a girl. I just want him to wear a skirt
>>739468964You're not wrong that the game basically baits you into it. Anyone playing blind who wants to actually fight the Fiends or hang out with Dante/Raidou is going to accidentally lock themselves in right before the Tower of Kagutsuchi.But even ignoring the accidental lock-in and wanting to fight Lucifer, from a pure gameplay standpoint, who is going to willingly pass up getting Pierce?Plus, narratively it still holds up as the most satisfying route. You spend 60+ hours getting treated like a glorified errand boy by your former friends and judged by a glowing disco ball in the sky. After all that, giving the Great Will the middle finger and marching off to wage an eternal war just feels like the most appropriate payoff. It's the ultimate Megaten power fantasy.
>>739468979the based choice is neutral as always, fixing the world for your qt teacher >>> fucking up the universe forever because the devil told you to
>>739468817Tde is the default because it has more content
Lawfags and Chaosfags are always retarded. They both end up the same with one guy on the top.
>>739469108Bro, Yuko's Neutral ending isn't "based," it's philosophical cowardice. You're literally just hitting the snooze button on the apocalypse.The entire theological framework of Nocturne is Gnostic to its core. Kagutsuchi is just a tool of the Demiurge (the Great Will), and the Conception is a metaphysical meat grinder designed to force humanity to evolve into one of its pre-approved, sterile ideologies.Think about the visual themes for a second. Have you ever noticed why Kaneko so often illustrates Law reps and higher agents of God with those weird, unsettling, robotic, or mechanical aesthetics? You see it all the time with the angels, or if you want a really deep cut, look at how Sophia and Maria are designed in SMT NINE. In Megaten's philosophy, aligning with the Great Will's universe means surrendering your chaotic, messy humanity to become an automated, emotionless cog in a divine machine.Going Neutral and restoring the old world doesn't actually fix anything. It just puts everyone back to sleep in the Matrix, blinding them to the reality of the universe while you wait for God to inevitably trigger another Conception down the line when He gets bored of human free will again.TDE isn't just "fucking up the universe because the devil told you to," it's the ultimate existential rebellion. You're achieving Gnostic enlightenment, evolving past the Demiurge's mechanical bullshit, and breaking the cycle of rebirth entirely. You reject being a cog so you can become the wrench.But sure, enjoy being a wagecuck in Shinjuku again just because your teacher gave you a sad uwu look. She's not putting out.
>>739469054>You spend 60+ hours getting treated like a glorified errand boy byLucifer. All you've done and go on to do is dance to his tune because he thought it would be funny. TDE is just being happy with your slave collar.
>>739468817Unless you go Freedom (the only proper Neutral route), people go TDE because alignment, more specifically three flavor of shitty Law, its cancer. The default Chaos route is probably the second best ending since you're not sucking Lucy's cock and you roam around the wasteland with your onahole.
>>739469261Bro, did we even play the same game?There is a massive theological difference between the Great Will's system and Lucifer's agenda. The Great Will operates on absolute subjugation, it literally erases the universe to force a reboot where humanity is molded into whatever sterile, mechanical doctrine wins the battle royale. That is the slave collar.Lucifer in Nocturne is playing the classic Gnostic role of the Lightbringer/Prometheus figure. He doesn't demand worship or compliance. He drops a Magatama in your eye to give you the agency to survive the apocalypse, then sits back in a wheelchair and watches. You aren't forced down the Amala Network; you go down there because you're hungry for answers and power.He throws the Fiends at you not as errands, but as a crucible. He's testing whether you actually have the Nietzschean Übermensch willpower required to break the cycle, or if you're just another bug waiting to get squashed by Kagutsuchi.And what happens at the bottom? He doesn't make you kneel. He fights you himself, and when you prove your strength, he acknowledges you as a peer. A demon of darkness on equal footing, leading the vanguard.Calling that a "slave collar" is pure Lawchad copium. YHVH literally designs his highest angels as emotionless, robotic automatons. Lucifer just wants to assemble a squad of absolute gigachads to storm the gates of heaven and tear down the metaphysical Matrix.If teaming up with the only entity in the cosmos that respects your strength enough to let you punch God makes me an errand boy, then hand me the uniform.
>>739469407I see a lot of words but all I'm hearing is stockholm syndrome for the devil after he raped you with a bug
>>739469054>>739469407Not him but Demifiend exist to suffer for Lucy's entertainment. That it. The old bitch outright tell you to not make him bored and give him a shitty ending. Lucy is a faggot and you're his cumsock.
>>739469306Okay, you actually cooked with that part. You're completely right. The Reasons are literally just YHVH outsourcing his totalitarianism. No matter which one you pick, you're submitting to Kagutsuchi's rigid framework. It all loops back to stripping away human agency to build a "perfect" automated system.But your take on the Demon Ending being the second best is pure cope.Sure, roaming a desolate, endless desert with your Super Pixie sounds like a fun weekend, but philosophically? It's a massive L. You didn't achieve Chaos, you just achieved pointless nihilism. You threw a temper tantrum, broke the Conception engine, and Kagutsuchi basically curses you to rot in a dead sandbox. You haven't overthrown the Demiurge or the Great Will; you just got yourself stuck in a metaphysical loading screen forever while God probably just moves on to another universe in the Amala Network.>>739469505>>739469523And again with the "sucking Lucy's cock" thing. Lucifer in Nocturne doesn't want you to worship him. Standard SMT Chaos is usually about "might makes right" demonic anarchy, but TDE goes beyond that. You aren't choosing a side in the standard Law vs. Chaos binary, you are actively choosing to march outside the bounds of the universe to burn the entire chessboard to the ground. Anything less than TDE is just choosing which flavor of Matrix you want to live in.
>nihilismnihilismnihilism!This faggot is the type of person that misread Kreia's lesson and think everything about her is too intelligent and smart.
>>739469523By the way, bro, do you even understand basic existentialism? Of course they want to see you struggle. That is the literal definition of a crucible.If you want a comfortable, painless existence where you never have to struggle, go side with the angels. The Great Will is more than happy to strip away your free will and turn you into a literal automaton.Lucifer isn't just getting off on your pain; he is putting you through the ultimate Gnostic filter. He needs to know if a human can actually endure the absolute worst the Demiurge has to offer and forge the willpower necessary to break the cycle. The suffering is a test to see if you have the Nietzschean strength to become a demon of darkness on his level, or if you're just going to fold and pick one of Kagutsuchi's pre-packaged Reasons to make the pain stop.You're looking at the path to ultimate cosmic liberation and crying because the old lady pushing the wheelchair was mean to you. Absolute Lawchad cope. You just don't want understand what me and Lucy have going on.
>>739469582you talk like a teenager and doublespace for no reason, as expected of a chaosfag
>>739458969>>739459592I remember being beaten by random encounter because all my party was petrified. Good game.
>>739460698Objectively noIf this were any other SMT (even V) I would wholeheartedly agree but STR is objectively superior in Nocturne, you can do a MAG run but STR is easy mode, the game is built around it.
>>739469848Why is it canon that demifiend is MAG in Apoc?
>>739469872God knwos but when you face him again In V the motherfucker is STR
>>739454016You could have lurked in the thread more or reverse-image search the OP instead of making yourself look like a massive underaged newfag.
>>739469872The dlc is an explicitly non-canon what if scenario.
>>739469741If you want standard Megaten Chaos (Social Darwinism where the strong devour the weak), you go side with Chiaki. Yosuga is the textbook Chaos equivalent in this game, and notice how she still operates entirely within the Great Will's rulebook.Nocturne's underlying architecture isn't just western demonology; it's heavily built on Hinduism, esoteric Buddhism, and Kabbalah. The universe operates on Kalpas, vast, unyielding cycles of creation and destruction. Kagutsuchi isn't God; he's just the cosmic clock enforcing the wheel of Samsara. The Conception essentially traps Tokyo in a localized Bardo, the Tibetan transitional state between death and rebirth, waiting for an ideology to incubate and set the new Dharma.The Great Will is perfectly fine with whatever Reason wins. It doesn't care if the new world is silent, isolated, or ruled by the strong, so long as the wheel of Samsara keeps spinning and humanity remains trapped in the cosmic ant farm.When you dive into the Labyrinth of Amala, you are enacting a literal Kabbalistic descent into the Qliphoth (the inverted, impure Tree of Life). You aren't just getting edgy demon powers; you are absorbing the foundational rejected matter of the universe. Lucifer is guiding you to build up enough spiritual density to achieve a violent form of Moksha, complete liberation from the cycle of rebirth.By killing Kagutsuchi, you aren't resetting the world to a chaotic wasteland. You are shattering the cosmic clock itself, permanently freezing time so the universe can never be rebooted by the Great Will again. You are destroying the very concept of reincarnation.It is the absolute negation of the cosmic game. If you think breaking the wheel of Samsara so humanity stops being toyed with by higher-dimensional entities is just "teenager edge," then you genuinely don't understand the theological source material this franchise is built on. Go play Persona if you just want the power of friendship to fix the status quo.
>>739461280this is what overseas bros call a truth nuke
>>739469985In a way Demifiend isn't a messiah, he doesn't challenge the precognition of Lucifer and *records scratch* and he's basically a slave of their will.
>>739461280SJ (and specially SJR) has better and more fulfilling conclusions regardless of what you chose, whereas Nocturne only feels "satisfactory" with TDE.
Reminder that SMT 5 is a sequel to 3 and Lucifier turn into a braindead retarded after TDE that beg you to kill him in the final boss. Oh and the Great Will is still around and Masetema is laughing at him.
>>739470159I have to finish Vengance, I played base game back on the day and cursed the fucker that locked the true ending behind the poo.
>>739461280>Nocturne has everything going for it in all departments.You have no reason to help this retarded faggot and you gave him godhood after doing all the shit for him. Then he call you a faggot. Fuck you.
>>739470065 Do you know what a "Messiah" actually is in this franchise?Look at Aleph in SMT II. He was literally genetically engineered in a test tube by the Center to be a compliant, weaponized Jesus for the Law faction. In the theological framework of Shin Megami Tensei, being a "Messiah" means being the ultimate slave to the Demiurge. It means you are the chosen janitor sent to clean up the universe so the Great Will can implement another era of unquestioning, mechanical obedience.Demifiend not being a Messiah is his biggest W. He's the Anti-Messiah.>he doesn't challenge the precognition of Lucifer and record scratchYou are completely confusing Lucifer's gamble with the Great Will's predestination. The Great Will (*record scratch*/YHVH) operates on absolute deterministic control. The Conception is a rigged casino; no matter which Reason wins, the house (the Great Will) takes the pot, the wheel of Samsara keeps turning, and humanity remains trapped in the cosmic ant farm. That is the "precognition" or the grand script of the universe.Lucifer doesn't have a script. He has a hypothesis. In Gnosticism, the serpent in Eden didn't tell Adam and Eve what to do with the world; he just gave them the apple so they could see the prison they were living in. Lucifer dropping the Magatama into your eye isn't him mind-controlling you into being his slave; it's him giving you the ontological crowbar needed to break out of the Great Will's rigged casino.He didn't know for sure if you'd survive the Labyrinth. He hoped you'd develop the Nietzschean willpower to transcend the cycle, but you still had to choose to walk down there, kill the Fiends, and absorb the Qliphoth yourself.You aren't a slave to the snake just because you ate the apple. You ate the apple to stop being a slave to the gardener. TDE is the ultimate rejection of predestination.
which is the best SMT game for a BASED lawfag who reads too many philosophy and political science books to smack satan in the face with his massive cock
>>739470247Look at Isamu before the world ends. He's just a regular, insecure slacker kid. Then the Conception hits. Instead of getting magic powers, he gets captured by the Mantra, thrown into a literal demon prison, gets beaten, escapes, and then gets his soul physically and psychologically tortured inside the Amala Network.His Reason, Musubi, isn't some grand, ambitious master plan. It is the ultimate trauma response.He realizes the universe is governed by horrifying, infinitely powerful entities that can crush him on a whim. His ideology isn't "I want to rule the world," it's "I want to build a cosmic panic room so nobody can ever touch me or hurt me again." It is the philosophical equivalent of locking your bedroom door and becoming a universal NEET because the outside world is too terrifying. He's literally YOU.The fact that he makes you do all the heavy lifting is completely intentional and consistent. He knows he's weak. He knows he can't punch out Kagutsuchi. He looks at you—a half-demon apocalyptic killing machine—and realizes you are the only tool capable of building his safe space. And of course he pushes you away and acts ungrateful at the end! The whole point of Musubi is absolute, uncompromising isolation. He can't be your buddy anymore because interpersonal relationships and dependency are exactly what his Reason is trying to eradicate.It's not bad writing that he acts like an ungrateful prick; it's incredibly consistent character writing for a broken human being. You don't pick Musubi because Isamu is a "good guy" who earned a reward. You pick it because you look at the endless, bloody meat grinder of the Megaten universe and agree that absolute, non-interactive isolation is the only way to genuinely escape the suffering.
>>7394703692 (Satan is your ally, Lucy isn't), Strange Journey Redux Law Redux ending, and SMT 5 VV's Tao route.
>>739470469Or I could just say fuck you, let him die, and go up the faggot dungeon without him being a retarded extra boss, something other SMT would do better at.
>>739470473>Satan is your ally
>>739454501forced change never worksit's the people who are supposed to improve and change the status quo to make the world a better place, you can't just skip that phase and force the perfect world onto people. it has no value
>>739470159Did you skip the endgame dialogue? Lucifer didn't fail. He and the demonic vanguard actually marched into heaven and successfully killed the Creator. He achieved the exact goal he set out to accomplish in Nocturne's TDE.The twist in V is that upon killing God, Lucifer achieved ultimate Gnosis and realized that simply emptying the Throne doesn't actually break the Great Will's Mandala System. The universe's mechanics would just naturally spawn another totalitarian Demiurge to take YHVH's place and restart the cosmic ant farm all over again.So what does he do? He doesn't go "braindead." He purposefully ascends past his physical, localized demonic form, absorbs the Creator's Knowledge, and transforms himself into a metaphysical roadblock on the Throne. He willingly martyrs himself, holding the entire cycle hostage just long enough for a Nahobino to come along with the specific power needed to destroy the Throne and shatter the Mandala System forever. He begs you to kill him because he has literally become the final linchpin of the old universe. He sacrifices his own existence to permanently secure humanity's cosmic freedom. It’s the ultimate Promethean sacrifice.And bringing up Mastema? Bro, Mastema is a glorified middle-management fed playing regional faction politics in the dirt of Da'at. He thinks he's a mastermind because he tricked some Qadištu and manipulated some Tokyo high schoolers. Meanwhile, Lucifer is playing 5th-dimensional chess against the fundamental metaphysical architecture of reality. Mastema isn't even a blip on his radar.I'll not stand Lucy slander in this thread.
>>739470572Read your lore bro, Satan is cool. specially in IV:A
>Satan is cool
>>739470572Satan is bro tier in SMT2 and easily one of the best Law Rep in the series. He is the Judge and not even YVHV could escape his judgement. Remember, SMT 2 has a "Law" faction that are all (Shrews) and run by (Shrews). The person that was Satan rebel against that Law and help you establish a new Law, the Christian Law.
>>739470617>Did you skip the endgame dialogue? Lucifer didn't fail. He and the demonic vanguard actually marched into heaven and successfully killed the Creator. He achieved the exact goal he set out to accomplish in Nocturne's TDE.He kill the creator, not the Great Will. I am not going to bother reading the rest of your rambling.
>>739463085>>739463908
>>739469523you seem like the kind of guy to just emotionally lash out at things you don't like, much like a woman.
>>739470847Congratulations, you just violently agreed with me while aggressively plugging your ears.Yes, he killed the Creator and not the Great Will. Do you know why? Because you can't punch the Great Will in the face. The Great Will (the Axiom) isn't an old guy sitting on a cloud; it's the unthinking, impartial operating system of the multiverse. You can't stab gravity or shoot the concept of time.YHVH/The Creator is just an egotistical system administrator who hijacked the Throne to enforce his brand of Law. Lucifer and the Demifiend successfully assassinated that admin. But upon doing so, Lucifer achieved ultimate Gnosis and realized the horrifying truth: the Great Will's system is entirely automated. It would just naturally spawn a new Creator to fill the empty seat and restart the exact same cosmic ant farm.That is exactly why he didn't "fail" or go braindead. He realized pure demonic violence couldn't break the OS, so he intentionally turned his own existence into a metaphysical brick. He fused with the Throne to block the Great Will's auto-installer, holding the entire cycle hostage until a Nahobino could show up with the specific power needed to completely smash the motherboard.He sacrificed himself to permanently crash the system. Next time, try actually understanding the lore before throwing a tantrum and accidentally proving your opponent's point for them.
It still feels weird to me how optimistic the endings are in CoV.
>>739471097All the ending (save Creation Chaos ending because pagans running around and attacking everyone is not a good idea) is optimistic. Even true Neutral
>>739469872And why is he dead in Apocalypse
>>739471097The new games sugarcoat all the endings too much. SJR in particular was just letting the law/chaosfags have their cake and eat it too.
>>739471245>Redux ChaosIt turns Normal Earth into SMT Earth, but require demons to protect them or die.>Redux LawThe russian cannot sing forever. Sooner or later, something is going to come and destroy humanity, hence why Lucy was okay with the Russian going down this path. We don't even know if some of the Humans could be immune to her singing, either.
>>739471169>>739471245Ahh fair enough last time I touched an SMT game prior to Vengeance was SMTIV and IIRC prior to the route split it really just hammered home how shitty law and chaos worlds were and even in the neutral ending's hopeful ending you still had dead friends hanging over you
>>739469872>>739469910Because 4 and 4a take place in a different universe than 3 and 5.
Think about how a modern city operates. You are born into a concrete grid that you didn't ask for. To survive: to get food, to go to work, to participate in society, etc., you are violently forced to engage with the highway system. You have to buy a car, pay insurance, and sit in gridlock. The infrastructure was built long before you existed, and it completely dictates how you move through life.That is exactly what the Great Will is. It is the unthinking, cold infrastructure of the multiverse. The cycle of universal death and rebirth isn't a malicious plot; it’s just cosmic traffic. It is a mandatory system of spiritual transit that forces human souls to endlessly commute through existence.Now, who built the highways?In Vengeance, we learn about the primordial Mother Goddesses (like Tiamat) who represented a world of open, unstructured nature, a world where you could walk anywhere. But then the "Bull Gods" (The Creators/YHVH's equivalent) usurped them. The Creator is essentially Robert Moses or a tyrannical urban planner. He bulldozed the ancient, natural world, paved it over in asphalt, and legally mandated that everyone has to use his toll roads. He stripped the ancient gods of their power and turned them into regular demons, which is the equivalent of tearing down a local neighborhood to build a parking lot, then forcing the displaced residents to work as parking attendants.When you play a standard Shin Megami Tensei game and pick an alignment, you aren't actually changing the system. You are just choosing what kind of traffic you want to sit in. None of the Alignments solve the core issue: you are still trapped on the highway. The Creator is still collecting the tolls.This is why Lucifer’s rebellion, and the True Demon path, is the ultimate existential awakening. Lucifer is the guy standing on the overpass pointing out that humans actually have legs. To achieve true liberation, you can't just buy a different car.
>>739471383Learning the main guy behind V's first game was 4A made it all click for me. Modern Fatlus just misses the point of the old dichotomy completely and just wants every path to feel good when they aren't supposed to.
Anyone try hardtype? Worth a try?
>>739471590Never bothered. Nocturne's difficulty is perfect as is.
>>739453016>>739453673All the Reasons are incredibly retarded and Neutral is the only choice that makes any sense because TDE is a pointless fight against the Great Will that accomplishes nothing. Neutral at least brings all your retarded friends back to life so you can openly make fun of them for their cringe high school philosophy Reasons and contantly remind them that they tried to rewrite reality with the equivalant logic of the lyrics to an angsty emo song.
>>739471752People will stop shilling for TDE if the just have Pixie exist in the Freedom ending like this.
>>739471890>human sized
>>739471890Not to sound like a Personafag but I do wish there were more romantic options with demons in SMT.
>>739471972I too wish I could gape jack frost
>>739471972Both rep in VV are demons in the end.
>>739454016lol what a retard
