*ruins your enjoyment*
>>739493776
I have 4k hours in this game and l've never been annoyed by it
>>739493776wrong pic
>>739493776Literally just switch off Sniper, bro. There are 8 other classes.
>>739494606The eternal TF2 cycle where every 5 years shitters find a new scapegoat to blame getting killed on and demand en masse that Valve delete it from the game.
whenever there's a sniper, make sure to bully them and just hard focus them with the scorch shit until they swap, or for the entire match. when they start seething in chat, egg them on. its some of the most dopamine you can get from a game.
>>739494606>>739495134>>739494495>>739494494>>739494368>>739494148>>739493776Demo still has 2 primaries though
>>739496738Explain why that's a problem without sounding mad that you just got dominated and taunted.
>>739497043Everyone else has 1 primary and that primary isn't winbombs
>>739497115Achually Spy DOESN'T have a primary.He has a secondary (revolver) and melee (knife).No primary.
>>739494606Spy wasn't nerfed hard enough desu.
im glad no one uses this. lacks afterburn but snipes fast
>>739498359I sometimes use this with dragons fury, pretty underwhelming regardless
>201-: Minisentries are OP, valve pls delete!>2014: Stickybombs are OP, valve pls delete!>2019: Ambassador is OP, valve pls delete!>2022: Random crits are OP, valve pls delete!>2026: Sniper is OP, valve pls delete!What's next?
>>739494606Only thing that needs to be removed from the game is the Dead Ringer.>run directly into the line of fire>right click 1 time, take 1hp of damage>oh guys the spy is totally dead, I sure am fooled!!!>gets absolutely free access to the backline for absolutely no effort or patience>can't even get countered by pyro burning because LMAONOAFTERBURN>can't be killed because LMAO TAKES 0 DAMAGE>spy image on contact/hit doesn't even appearIt's such absolute bullshit and removes any semblance of planning, strategy, or patience from being a spy. It just makes you practically invincible in 1 click. It's so fucking dumb that every spy has absolute free access to the backline.
>>739494606amby was bad because it was a direct upgrade and lacked the (supposed) downsides of the sniper rifle while getting you 80% of the way there>butwhaddaboutotherdirectupgradeI will not defend any direct upgrade in the game, either Valve should've into balancing or simply made the better direct upgrade option the stock weapon instead
>>739498856Minis were legit cancer when they regend health while building though
>>739494606The ambassador was nerfed because someone in the dev team obviously love snipers and they didn't like getting snipped from half way across the map so his shitty razorback would be rendered useless
>>739494606>Direct HitDirect Hit is not a direct upgrade. Splash damage matters a lot, and the direct hit, even with absolutely perfect aim, practically gets rid of splash damage entirely. Unless everyone is bundled in a corner clipping into each other, the DH is only hitting 1 person at a time.Ambassador is retarded because a Spy is not supposed to assassinate people from across the map. If you're caught and need to fight, odds are you're in relatively close range and landing 1 headshot practically insta-wins against 80% of classes.Then again if you're caught in short range by a soldier/heavy then you're supposed to have a low chance of beating that, only realistically winning if the other player is just outright garbage. Also>spies complaining about anything when they rely on glitch backstabs
>>739498856>minisentries are OP>playing thunder mountain on defense as gunslinger engi>place a mini next to the guardrails on the top most point>watch retarded demos/soldiers (aka players that have no aim so they're used to just shooting around people) spend 100% of their time trying to take down my sentry>after 10 lives they finally get it>mfw I just rebuild it in 3 seconds and keep on truckin
>Jewtubers whispering in Valve's ear for weapon balancing>Nerfed a ton of fun weapons for being situationally powerful>The cancer canon and stillborn streamer never get touchedJihad against Uncle Dane
NERF EXPLOSIVES nerf explosives>-10% damage>-10% blast radius>+50% sticky base priming time>only exception: Lv3 Sentry rockets remain unaffected
>>739499921SCOUTS KEEP WALKING this is a Texan map
I miss reserve shooter pyro like you wouldn't believe
>>739493776Average TF2 pyro
>>739500763Now that was extreme bullshit>Walk around corner>Pyro is in airblast range>Unavoidable true combo death as he air juggles you while vomiting out shotgun minicritsThere is a limit to how much you can balance around assuming the players are too stupid to play the game
>>739500810
>>739500810>>739500961Excellent
Dragon's Fury is way more annoying.Let's give Pyro scout's scattergun, but he doesn't need to reload and it penatrates enemies and it sets people on fire! Did I also mention that he also has 175 health and the second fastest base movement speed with the powerjack equipped?
>>739501426A lot of Pyro's gameplay would be fixed with one simple change>In the class select screen, swap Demo and Pyro. Demo goes in the Offense category, Pyro goes in the Defense categoryThis is how the gameplay works out in practice and it's how virtually all of Pyro's and Demo's unlocks have steered the classes towards. By correctly identifying the intended gameplay role, the rationalization for nerfing Pyro's existing toolkit (axe, quickswapping, etc) vanishes, and the rationale for adding some hugely bullshtit unlocks decreases.
They should've given Pyro a freezethrower instead of the Dragon's Fury. It would slow down enemies to a crawl and make them susceptible to mini crits from the sharpened volcano fragment which would thaw them out.
>Pick tf2 up after like 4 years since the bot crisis>Meet with the same people in every match because there's like 20 people still playing.bros... Is it over?I had an easier time quitting drugs than tf2. I don't want valve to pull the plug.
>>739500763pyro should've never gotten the reserve shootermannmelter is disappointingscorch shot is a detonator for retards that can't M2panic attack existsthruster needs to not give you shitty air controlgas passer is a fucking insultwe never got an incendiary shotgun
>>739493776Wrong pic why do most if not all of sniper ""pro"" mains look like some highschool edgeboy wet dream?
>>739494606>ambyfags are wojak/sharty faggots>and he's a phonecuck on top of thatYou literally cannot make this shit up. You don't even need to insult these subhumans, they do well enough on their own.
>>739500961based
anyone have that video of AI soldier ranting about trannies and uncle dane?
>enter MvM as spy with spycicle>use up all revolver ammo>get hit by fire and lose spycicle>use sapper on a botwhat would happen?
>>739501920My fondest memories of tf2 comes from 2010 where i would join the same server every day late at night and i would find the same people playing, that coupled with the all-voice chat so you could talk to the enemy team was comfy
>>739500763Reserve should reenable minicrits from airblast. Modern puff requires you to aim way up or down to launch people and that means you have to quickly aim at your target instead of relying on the puff always pushing everyone in the same way. Old reserve was bad because all you had to do was lock onto a specific angle, and that's not a thing anymore.>>739503127You don't lose your spycicle, and you don't even need to use up all your revolver, just don't switch to it after using sapper.It's even on the spycicle article on the wiki.
>>739503127You just switch to diguise kit, duh.
>>739503184Mine was the same in 2012. An arena server where I played for over 10 hours a day. Eventually you get to know basically every single returning player. Eventually it got filled with the same people who abused boring ass strats and spammed shitty reddit memes
>>739503184For me it was playing Saxton Hale/Freak Fortress servers. Lots of really fun maps and bosses, getting the perfect !rtd roll and gang banging a boss in a room with your godmode. Peak
>>73950318424/7 ctf_turbine tdm servers... home...
>>739504163This but 24/7 2fort servers that would rotate custom 2fort maps
>>739498883Kunai + dead ringer is absolutely broken. Backstab one afk or novice heavy/soldier, now you are literally a tank with 200hp with a 75% damage reduction, a speed boost and no afterburn when you are "killed". A spy who runs this combo and knows how to exploit hitboxes so that they can backstab you from the front is absolutely insufferable to play with, unless you have a whole team of people who detect and hard focus spies quickly then they can just kill you instantly with no viable defense because you don't even need to give them your back. If Valve prohibited them from being used together, or just fixed backstab registration so that you literally can't be backstabbed if a spy is within your FOV, then the game would be 8x more enjoyable.
>>739503184It was so fucking kino, new tf2 players literally just don't fucking know how good it was. The golden age of tf2, where every single map had dozens of community servers literally dedicated to that map in every variation you could possibly want was something else.
>>739503184They have this still on Skial. Their mods are faggots but they don't show up that often so as long as you don't type an auto detected word in text chat you're usually fine.
I miss quickplay, bros...
>>739506910erm actually you're just a youtuber shill :/
>>739506910I really don't get what the point of removing pubs was when the new matchmaking system just sticks people will starter medals against a stacked veteran team
>>739498856>2019: Ambassadorhello newfren
>>739493776play 50v50 with this thang
Neato!
>>739503184I liked playing on towlies 24/7 dm servers. going to the enemy spawn to spawncamp them as they fought for their freedom. good times
>>739504738>now you are literally a tank with 200hp with a 75% damage reductionmeanwhile sniper>headshots your teammate from across the map>literally nothing you can do about it
>>739503090https://litter.catbox.moe/y67e1xdcue7d9jz1.webm
>>739493776One of Dragon's Fury or Scorch Shot are borderline mandatory on Pyro. You NEED a way to contribute at moderate ranges if you want to do anything besides hang back and hope you can catch a flanking scout or airblast some rockets.Personally I prefer the Dragon's Fury, but the Scorchshot exists so all the other flamethrowers can be viable.>>739499760ThisThe Direct Hit changes Soldier's role a lot, and makes him shittier at the main thing the class does, suppressing an enemy front, disrupting enemy clusters, and overtaxing the enemy medic/s. Unironically, as a soldier, kills are among the least productive way you contribute if you do things right, and the Direct Hit trades basically everything about your class to make you a mostly shittier, fatter sniper.
>>739507921Holy fuck dm_store.
>>739508390soldier would say this
>>739503184I'm glad I still made it to the end of this in 2015.
>>739508390>https://litter.catbox.moe/y67e1xdcue7d9jz1.webmthanks
>>739507921I member this map.>ran a server with Uber Upgrades>Had homing rockets>would charge up the rocket and launch it >would pin point someone and my only notice of me killing someone was the extended gore mod that would throw viscera all overgood times.
>>739508390>waddle soldier likes random critsim nooooticing
>>739494606AMBY WAS FUN AS I MET A SPY WHO LEGIT WAS DOING IT AND I WAS GOING SPY AT THE TIME AND I WENT TOE TO TOE WITH HIM (FIRST USING THE STOCK REVOLVER (AND IM NOT BAD BUT HE OBS HAD 3X MORE EXPERIENCE (I WAS SITTING AT LIKE 1.2K HOURS OR SOMETHIG FROM XBOX PLAYING (I WAS LIKE NUMBER 1-3 ON XBOX LEGIT IN POINTS AS THERE WAS LOTS OF CHEATERS MY ACTUAL RANK WAS 13 BUT STILL THATS RETARDED) AND THIS GUY WAS GOING HAM WITH THE AMBASSADOR AND IT WAS FUNWATCHING SOMEONE PRO WITH THE AMBY WAS COOL AF AND OBVIOUSLY A HARDER SNIPE AT THE TIME TO PERFORM THEN SNIPER (THIS WAS LIKE 13 YEARS AGO BEFORE ANYONE REALLY PLAY VERY "BROKEN"
>>739493776*dodges**headshot you and taunt*Ggs.
>>739498359Weapon's shit but one time in a va hale map a decade ago I sniped him with this to get the kill over a long distance and that alone is enough to make me think fondly of it.
I just hate that 80% of matches come to a screeching halt halfway through and then the other team just leaves the match, or a team sucks complete dick right off the bat and all leaves before being replaced with turbo trannies that reverse rape the other team
>>739509470sweet. i wish vscript hale wasnt so fast so i can snipe him with it
>>739509618He's way too overtuned in vscript. Any Hale that knows what they're doing is unkillable unless you have like 12 engineers that are able to get setup
The worst thing to happen to this game turns 10 this July
>>739509773yep. and even then all it takes is a charge punch up a slope and a timed stomp on or near the nest
>>739510196>mym has existed now for longer than all of tf2 pre mymFuck
I was once playing with a friend on cp_well and she was going fucking med all the time, because... there was no good reason, honestly, I felt like this idea, that she should main medic was imprinted into her lol. What's not lol is that her non-existent help to me and one fucking phrase that made me hate her>anon, if I go with you I will die :{bitch I carried the entire game on my back like Atlas, I was one men army while playing pyro and being toe-to-toe with a fucking soldier who had TWO pockets on him TWO and bitch was still dying to me kekw dammit. blah blah I hate women I will stay true to my anime waifu, she had more impact on a game than healslut did
>>739509547That's how TF2 has always been. Valve ran the math and found that eternal stalemates maximize player retention, so the game is designed to encourage both teams turtling up forever until a spy or sniper makes a hero play and cracks the nut.
Is this how it feels to be a cuck?I just have to sit and watch as my favorite game gets raped to death?
>>739507940Respect the sight lines. Track your own sniper and fight within sightlines while he has an angle. If he dies, be extra cautious. If he snipes the enemy sniper, then you can run around without a care.
>>739500810bruh
>>739512693You OK bro
>>739503184For me it's the 2012-2013 era where I played on 24/7 minecraft trade servers. They had everything from tryhard deathmatches to friendlies and micspam. Going around, finding map secrets and easter eggs, then alt tabbing to youtube to watch TF2 SFM YTP, then put on some 1h TF2 micspam mixtape myself, and repeat the cycle ad infinitum.
>>739503090>>739508390OK does anyone have the scout ai where the entire team discovers scouts stack of futa girl magazines?
>>739518715No but I have this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8GSDP8A5yM
>>739493776Why would a weapon I'm using ruin my enjoyment?
Sentries and sniper are anti-fun.
>>739519447that why you blow them up
For me, it's ubering the phlog pyro on dustbowl
>>739493776>Some attention whore friendly Heavy faggot joins the game>Half your team stops playing to goof around with him outside the spawn
you did get this years potato, right?
>>739520456Huh?
>>739520525https://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=270245
>>739513370>just respect the sightline chud
!rtd ON32v32 ONLow gravity ONAllcrits ONx10 ONInstant respawns ON999 hour round timer ONInfinite caps ONSprays ONMicspam ONMerasmus ONmap: cp_orange_x3
>>739520456new mvm maps will never solve the problem of the stale upgrade meta. valve did such a shitty job balancing mvm.
I've been playing TF2 since 2007 and have never played a round of MvM
>>739520682this is the map designer's fault, cmon now.
>>739497115You just outed yourself as a retard who just waltzes into chokepoints that are being hit with explosives.
>>739520765Roguelikemod, Bump In The Night and Total Chaos actually break the mold involving that.Rougelikemod is self-explainatoryBump in The Night is Bumper Cars Only (with a Duck collecting segment to allow destruction of tanks and the final wave boss)Total Chaos has no upgrades but hyper buffed items.
>>739520456I play on potato even if there are no events, so yeah, even before the 'official' event release.
>>739520865large open areas are fun to fight in. balancing for sniper means putting chokepoints everywhere which is AIDS.
>>739520765>stale upgrade metaWhat would you change? Some upgrades are rancid shit and don't even work but what's the problem with the stuff that does work?Also, what do you usually play?
>>739493776Can a flamethrower + shotgun Pyro be effective? No Dragon's Fury btw. I'm convinced that Pyro isn't an attack class, and works mostly as defense and support
>>739521132He is very effective but you are correct in that he is defense. If you want to be effective as vanilla pyro, you should be thinking two things>I am my team's guardian angel.>My job is to prevent the other team from having fun.Do these two things and you're golden.
>>739521132I usually play pyro with backburner+jetpack+rake. Popping out in really random places and fucking their flankers can do wonders. Especially when you surprise the soldiers for a second time with your ability to m2.
>>739493776>>739494148I've seen these retards who literally do nothing but corner peak with this shit for the entirety of the match.How does ANYONE find this fun?
>>739521052the webm's issue is of the spawn room's design that permits vision into the space where people actually spawn in.something like a dropdown like how steel has blu's spawn would prevent that from happening without having to make changes to the play space.as far as making sniper in general have a bad time without introducing too many chokes, you need to not give him cover from the sky, and give the other team various elevations to approach from so he doesn't have full vision. patagonia for example has a massively tall upper border and if any sniper is having a good day you can divebomb him to kingdom come.swiftwater first is an awful place to fight unless you're a sniper because there's basically zero elevation changes so everyone is sitting ducks. But the point is historically fairly hard to actually hold, so much that in competitive play you'd see teams forfeit the first point since they have a stronger hold on second.
>>739521530:^)
>>739521597How are snipers even real when beggar's bazooka kamikaze bombing exists?
>>739521124>What would you change?90% of weapons having absolutely dogshit upgrades or being gimped for no reason like DH. many weapons with a unique gimmick have no upgrades for said gimmick. broken upgrades that don't work properly like sentry firing speed or minigun firing speed. every class has at most 1 or 2 very strong meta loadouts and anything else you are intentionally handicapping yourself. spy is straight up a troll pick and is only ever worth using for giant medics MAYBE.>Also, what do you usually play?whatever is needed. it's been a solved meta for over a decade now. mvm is fucking braindead compared to most horde shooters.
>>739521708spy isn't a troll pick most spies just suck shit at the class and decide that it's worthless.but that's okay because any of the official content made by valve can be dealt with by just 4 competent players, 5 for the expert tours.
>>739521708>spy is straight up a troll pickSay no more. Why are the biggest retards always the loudest when it comes to complaining about balance?
>>739521132stock flamethrower is pure shit for anything other than being an airblast bot. you cannot win 1v1s against any skilled power class without degreaser. soldiers and demos will rape you the millisecond you take out your secondary and scouts can meatshot you without fear of being juggled into a wombo combo. without your secondary you have no way of pressuring enemies outside your range and the longer a fight goes on the worse it gets for pyro. if you want to be a combo pyro you gotta learn how to use degreaser.
>>739521935>>739521846>spy isn't a troll picklol ok bootcamp kings what does spy have that isn't vastly inferior to another class?
>>739522062The armor piercing upgrade adds +100% damage, not +25%. Maxed out you can do 938 per stab, with guaranteed 2 or 3(3 swing speed levels) stabs on a distracted giant. Spy can actually compete with the heavy, demo or engi for top damage.You can easily solo any giant including bosses. Just up your movement speed to 2 dots and circlestrafe it. Spy is basically only susceptible to hordes of small bots. Spy rapes any engibots. Spy rapes any medbots, giant or no.Spy rapes any giant scout, sapper doesn't even need to be upgraded to affect one.Spy has max aggro, and can control aggro. A competent spy will straight up temporarily disable enemy AI.It's so effective that med ubering the spy is an actual cheese strategy.The thing is that you don't go after most small bots or tanks as a spy, you go after giants, minigiants, or engies/uber meds. You also have to understand the bot AI and its limitations.
>>739520714based orange goer. love flying at snipers and gardening them or launching quickie bombs
>>739521132YOu'd have to work thrice as hard to get even close to what a soldier demo can do so no
Reminder
>>739494368Only people who are dogshit get mad at this thing, the detonator is better in literally every way.
>join allcrits server>enemy team has a vaccinator medic spamming anti-crit buffshow do you respond without sounding mad?
>>739523559>sticky jumper onto him at mach 5 with a caber
Valve ruined my enjoyment of TF2 ten tears ago with the retarded matchmaking update. They just murdered the game because muh Overwatch/espowts and left.
>>739522724>The armor piercing upgrade adds +100% damage, not +25%. Maxed out you can do 938 per stabwow very impressive if you spend a billion dollars on upgrades you can kill giants assuming the trash bots don't instakill you, lag doesn't screw you over while you're circlestrafing, and you don't already have a crit boosted demo, heavy, or sniper who can do the exact same thing from a safe distance for a fraction of the cost.>Spy rapes any engibots.If they're alone and haven't built anything yet as a class with shit mobility.>Spy rapes any medbots, giant or no.Assuming there's nothing else shooting you while you're at it.>Spy rapes any giant scout, sapper doesn't even need to be upgraded to affect one.Super scouts are the most dangerous early waves where spy can't afford any upgrades.>Spy has max aggro, and can control aggro. A competent spy will straight up temporarily disable enemy AI.Scout already does this job and he has 20 jumps and 600 health to make this job easier.>It's so effective that med ubering the spy is an actual cheese strategy.Spy main you're going to OD on this much copium
>>739494606I've never met anyone that is able aim the Direct Hit consistently
>>739521530I try to sticky-camp the enemy spawn door. Ruining the fun for other players is part of what makes the game fun.
>>739523779you can just say you've never seen a competent spy player before. most players are useless dipshits regardless of what class they pick.
>>739503184>No Heroes TF2 server for CTF or Payload>24/7 Mario Kart for just shooting niggas and making my own fun
>>739523914>you can just say you've never seen a competent spy player beforethe final cope when you can't think of anything that spy is objectively good at.just admit you want to play spy for fun there's no shame in it bro.
>>739510783>Valve ran the math and found that eternal stalemates maximize player retention, so the game is designed to encourage both teams turtling up forever until a spy or sniper makes a hero play and cracks the nut.that is, literally, the exact opposite of how the game is designed
>>739522002degreaser is for weenies
>>739523779>if you spend a billion dollars on upgradesNot really, you can keep up without maxing out your damage. A giant scout has only 1200-1600 hp, a giant heavy typically has 5000. You can delete the scouts or help out on the heavy or any other giant even if you only have $800. And lol, this moron immediately goes for the lag excuse, like you didn't even consider doing it, you just know you'll be fucked by le evil lag and it's not your fault for being shit despite never even playing spy in the first place.>If they're alone and haven't built anythingLmao, are you seriously so shit that AI engies are able to outsmart you? They literally do nothing but whack the sentry, just stab and sap. And engies do typically spawn alone, in predetermined map spots... Are you sure you even play MvM? Like at all?>Assuming there's nothing else shooting you while you're at itI just said that spy can control aggro. Bots don't turn around unless you drop your disguise in melee range or get set on fire, and even when they do you have enough time to use DR. Or you can sap. And they never care about you even if you do drop disguise behind them if they're already distracted by looking at your team.On top of that, meds NEVER turn around, ever. Not unless you actually walk in front of them.>Super scouts are the most dangerous early wavesWhich is why I said you don't need the sapper upgrade. 2 damage upgrades and no giant scout ever becomes a problem for any reason because you can stop and instakill it.>Scout already does this jobWhat a retard. Scout doesn't have max aggro. And he won't force the giant heavy to turn around whenever he pleases.>Spy mainI hate playing spy in standard matches but I love spy in MvM. And it is a cheese strat BECAUSE of the way bots are forced to look at spy. AND the way a medic can steal aggro.It's obvious you have zero clue about this stuff. You should play outside of baby mode valve missions, maybe eventually you'll see what a spy can really do.
>>739524923Pretty much every early TF2 map is stalemate hell, they had to un-stalemate it through many patches throughout it's lifespan. The only reason 6v6 exists at all is because heavies and engies grind the game to a halt when people start using their mics to coordinate as a team.
>>739524923And yet half of a casual mode server always empties out when a steamroll quickly ends a match. Some people enjoy fighting on the same map for hours.
>>739525141>Pretty much every early TF2 map is stalemate hell,>all of the original maps are explicitly designed to make a winning team turn into a roll, being one of the few games to give the WINNING team advantages (shorter respawn times, shorter distances to the points, the last capture points capping extremely quickly) along with the moment to moment 'if you're doing good, you will keep doing good' effect that crits add on a per player basisc'mon now anondon't confuse a stalemate with defense. a 5CP map grinding to a halt at points 2 or 4 is a stalemate, but how often do you see that happen on well or granary? almost never, instead you get a 2-3-4 back and forth going as people loop around and push. red team holding dustbowl last for 15 minutes isn't a stalemate, because all they can do and all they're supposed to do is fucking defend and if they're holding that for 15 minutes then it's blu team's fault for being garbage
>>739525161It empties out because there's no other way of getting a balanced game. In a community server, you have team auto-scramble, vote scramble, even just players being able to change teams themselves to help out the other guys/give themselves a challenge. Casual has NONE OF THOSE, BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING SHIT.
>>739498883It's annoying, but it's still genuinely easy to chase with pyro, especially if you use detonator and have a brain. DR is genuinely a dogshit crutch and most spies would be better off just using stock in almost every scenario.
>>739525281A 30-40 minute hold on dustbowl last (which happens regularly) is a stalemate for all practical purposes, it doesn't matter that the other 2 points got capped before that. This is by design because that nutcracker stalemate maximizes fun for both teams. Both offense and defense are getting edged. Offense is technically winning so they're having fun. Defense is never practically losing so they're not feeling shit. This maximizes retention. The comics make fun of this by saying red and blu mann are locked in an eternal stalemate which keeps them hooked like a drug.
>>739525550the fact the timer ends up at 30 minutes at all is an anti-stalemate feature intended to give blu as much time as possible, which they often don't need because if they have a 30 minute timer they've already rolled the first five points. it's not a stalemate because red has nowhere to go, there's no pushback, they can only hold- if they match blu, that isn't a stalemate, that's an equal game. in a stalemate situation both teams can 'win,' but red's goal isn't 'win,' it's "don't lose"
>>739525757>Red wants to push out>Blu wants to push in>nothing_ever_happens.jpg>Trench warfare until the stars align and a push finally succeedsAgain, this is stalemating for all practical purposes, if you want to just nitpick terminology then this conversation is over. This isn't even necessarily a bad thing, at least not in a casual fuck-around context, which I already explained. But it's undoubtedly the intent behind every aspect of the map and class design.
>>739509773I think his overtuning makes sense in that a good chunk of his changes from Sourcemod are to better counteract getting turtled by rocketjumping Soldiers without being wholly reliant on an AoE yell to disable the Soldier completelyI also thoroughly enjoy that Vscript Hale is designed around the control point being cappable instead of most public VSH servers forcing you to sit there for half an hour and watch Hale struggle in vain to try and catch that fucking turtling Soldier
>>739500810would
>>739521530It's fun double plinking your bitch ass from across the map on a character that should not be able to do that
>>739499921>Try something like this>Enemy demo and soldier instantly delete my mini and mePain
>>739518486I miss that one mario kart looking map, I spent an absurdly retarded amount of hours on those. I feel like the 2000s internet still survived well into the early 2010s on TF2 even after the whole bronypocalypse thing and I miss it dearly
>>739526431this one?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzMq5_thk4o
>>739526631Wow that's very nostalgic. Man what the hell happened to vidya where people can't even make custom content and servers for mp games anymore, fuck I hate this gay ass world
>>739526841I feel you. These days I either try to get some work on my singleplayer backlog or lurk on /vm/ and play my autismo minecraft clone (VintageStory) with the anons there.
>>739526332>it's fun to *backstabbed* -ACK!who's the bitch now?
>>739525098>Not really, you can keep up without maxing out your damageSpy needs movement speed to collect money in scout's place and to get more than a single stab on super scouts, spy needs more resistances than any other class to not die instantly, spy needs both firing speed and armor pen to have respectable dps, he is dogwater early game.>Lmao, are you seriously so shit that AI engies are able to outsmart you?The engie isn't the problem it's other bots around him. if his tele spawns in a pack of enemies when you're go for the stab you're dead, you can only sap one building after a sap so you have to choose between eating sentry rockets to the face or leaving the tele up to spawn more shit in. All this is not taking into account how you are contributing ZERO damage while you are slowly waddling over to engies when sniper can kill them without even moving and soldier can rocket jump to chase them down then instantly go back to what he was doing.>Which is why I said you don't need the sapper upgrade. 2 damage upgrades and no giant scout ever becomes a problem for any reasonyou need full speed upgrades and some firing speed upgrades to get in more than 1 backstab against a super scout.super scout speed: 520hu/smaxed spy speed: 440hu/s80hu/s difference.base knife firerate is 0.8s so that's 64hu/s.melee range is ~50hu.adding up all those upgrades spy is completely unviable against super scouts until very late game.>I just said that spy can control aggro. Bots don't turn around unless you drop your disguise in melee rangeso literally any time you want to kill something>and even when they do you have enough time to use DRDR adds massive amounts of downtime to spy. High DPS on paper doesn't matter if you have to hide in a corner waiting for DR to recharge constantly.>What a retard. Scout doesn't have max aggro.Robots default to targeting whichever enemy they see first and is closest. This is almost always scout.TL;DR you're a coping retard
>>739527181Me, I am dead, you made me your bitch, and I'm gonna go right back to that same spot and annoy the fuck out of that sniper for the rest of that match like a dumbass.
>>739525471DR's best asset is the speed boost and using the loud decloak sound to trick enemies into looking a specific direction. It's great for setting up trickstabs. If you're not playing gunspy or can't trickstab consistently it's not worth it.
>>739494606The difference there is people don't want a second sniper in the game.
Why is everyone so good at this gameit gets even worse at night, the only time I can play
>>739494606>Machina>Direct Hit>Widowmaker>Direct upgrade if you have perfect aimYou can tell the person who makes this doesn't actually play the game or use those items.The DH removes your ability to leverage AOE, the Widowmaker removes you ability to leverage shotgun chip, the machina removes your ability to noscope. All of these are so useful that they're genuinely reasons to not take them even if you have perfect aim.Also nobody wants more aim slop 100+ hitscan damage from across the map shit in the game except sniper and amby fags.
>>739500961>>739500810speak for yourselves
the problem with pre-nerf amby is that it's a weapon for the class that can turn invisible and feint deathimagine an unkillable, unapproachable sniperthat's what TF2 servers used to be filled with
>>739527653script kiddies
SNIPERS GET SEVERAL ANTI-SPY AND ANTI-PYRO ITEMS BUT GOD FORBID IF SPIES AND PYROS GET ONE WEAPON THAT COULD TREATEN SNIPER NIGGERS!
>>739528132God forbid someone switch to pyro and spycheck
>play pyro>just right click and make demo kill himself and his own medic when they krits>instantly delete soldier's medic doing the same>they rage every single timelol lmao
>>739527249>Spy needs movement speed to collect money in scout's placeYou're a retard if you think spy replaces scout in the money collecting game. Admittedly valve could change it so that other classes like spy or pyro should be able to collect instead, though.And he needs speed mainly to circlestrafe and escape with DR even faster.>and to get more than a single stab on super scoutsBuddy, you are NOT catching up to a giant scout even if you're the real scout with max speed and a full bfb charge.>spy needs more resistances than any other class to not die instantlyWow, that's actually sort of true! Well, it's not strictly necessary because DR exists, but he can make real use of those resistances, particularly explosive and crit res. And medic and heavy need more resistances than him.>needs both firing speed and armor penNope. Just 2 damage upgrades are okay before investing in other stuff like resistances or sapper or speed.>engie isn't the problem it's other bots around him>when you're go for the stab you're deadYou have enough time to raise your DR. And you should be heading towards the engi immediately when you hear him spawn. Administrator calls them out specifically so that you know he'll be spawning bots 20 seconds from now, since they never try to construct boost their teles. That's 20 seconds where he's a free kill.>you have to choose between eating sentry rockets to the face or leaving the tele up to spawn more shit inNo. If the tele isn't up yet you sap the sentry and shoot it, then sap the tele. If the tele is already active you sap the tele instead and leave. Sentry alone isn't a problem because it dies to a scout sneezing its general direction, it's only a problem when it has an infinite metal bot whacking it.1/2
>>739527653you're using tf2's default config
>>739527249>you are contributing ZERO damage while you are slowly waddling over to engiesUhh... You just said that spy needs speed upgrades yourself. Do you think you can only use heavy disguises or something? You can get him in 10 seconds or less without any upgrades unless you're in respawn queue.Also engies will crouch and often hide partly inside their sentries making it impossible to headshot them. I know you don't play spy, you clearly don't play sniper either.>you need full speed upgrades and some firing speed upgrades to get in more than 1 backstab against a super scoutYou don't need any speed or any swinging speed to be effective against super scouts. I remind you once again that a sapper affects them without any upgrades and it still makes them stand still.>so literally any time you want to kill somethingYou clearly can't read either. Distracted small bots will never turn around. They get distracted when they see your team. Once they focus on your heavy/scout they ALL become nearly free kills for you. And you should remember small shits aren't your target, it's the giants. And giants have their own rule of 2-3 stabs before being forced to look at you, which also means you can circlestrafe them.>DR adds massive amounts of downtime to spy10 seconds, technically up to 20 if you're retarded and make sure it runs out fully. L'etranger cuts that down to 2 seconds.>Robots default to targeting whichever enemy they see firstBet you don't even know about med aggro or sniper aggro. Or that higher difficulty bots can switch their target. Or hell, you probably don't even know about bot difficulty in general.TL;DR you don't know shit about MvM and you're lashing out.
>Play tf2 Classified>zero players on any servers that aren't under 100 latencyit brings me back when I was 12 and played tf2 for the first time, but fuck. There will never be a game that scratches the same itch as TF2...
>>739529206I mean probably? Is that really relevant?
>>739529693just like with gold rush, you had to be there
>>739528097>This user is underage
>>739529189>You're a retard if you think spy replaces scout in the money collecting gamescout is the easiest to replace. the opportunity cost for every other class is much worse.>Buddy, you are NOT catching up to a giant scout even if you're the real scout with max speed and a full bfb charge.You can get 2 stabs in as they pass you if you have every speed and firerate upgrade but just barely. Either way the point is spy is shit against super scouts. Sapper is his only answer and that's just a worse mad milk.>Wow, that's actually sort of true! Well, it's not strictly necessary because DR existsDR is not godmode.>And medic and heavy need more resistances than him.Heavy maxes out his damage for $1400. Add an extra $400 if you want bullet pen. Spy needs $2400. Heavy is not useless early game without upgrades as his base health and damage is already good unlike spy.Medic can sit behind cover and has a shield.>Nope. Just 2 damage upgrades are okay before investing in other stuff like resistances or sapper or speed.Lower DPS = Have to DR more often = More wasted time>You have enough time to raise your DRTakes 0.5s to swap weapons to sap first. You have a tiny margin of error and if you miss you die. If you DR immediately you're wasting time again. Sentry is still left up in either case and you've made it someone else's problem.>And you should be heading towards the engi immediately when you hear him spawnThat's still wasted time walking over to kill the engie.>No. If the tele isn't up yet you sap the sentry and shoot it, then sap the teleSitting around being useless again while you wait for your sapper to recharge.
>>739529743>is playing on 20 tick with 100ms of lag relevantwhat do you think
>>739530609Since you're so knowledgeable, I have a question just for you. Try not to look the answer up, I'm just curious if you realize this about a basic spy mechanic. Let's say you disguise in full view of a bot and don't move, don't attack, or anything. Assume you have infinite health or you're behind a medic shield. What will happen if your heavy walks up to the bot and starts grinding it down?
>>739530649Wut? I'm pretty sure TF2 runs at lik 66 ticks
>>739530220
>>739529206Huh? What should I change?
>>739527653only people left playing this are the ones that have played for more than a decade or are script kiddies
>>739493776the 2015 patch ruined my enjoyment
>>739529254>Uhh... You just said that spy needs speed upgrades yourself.Maxed speed upgrades is still slower than a rocket jumping soldier or a sniper who doesn't have to move.>Also engies will crouch and often hide partly inside their sentries making it impossible to headshot themSo headshot them before they setup.>I remind you once again that a sapper affects them without any upgrades and it still makes them stand still.Just a worse mad milk you need to be in melee range to use.>You clearly can't read either. Distracted small bots will never turn aroundGreat. What about shit spawning behind you? You start stabbing some distracted heavies but a pack of soldiers just walked in behind you and turn you into paste.>And you should remember small shits aren't your target, it's the giantsBeing a one trick pony isn't a good thing. Demo and sniper can contribute against trash unlike spy.>And giants have their own rule of 2-3 stabs before being forced to look at you, which also means you can circlestrafe them.Circlestrafing is putting yourself at the mercy of lag. It's added complexity on a class that already struggles to stay alive while demo and sniper take 0 risk.>10 seconds, technically up to 20 if you're retarded and make sure it runs out fully. L'etranger cuts that down to 2 seconds.10s is an eternity in TF2. Your ~1000dps goes in the toilet. No other class has anywhere near this much constant downtime.>Bet you don't even know about med aggro or sniper aggro. Or that higher difficulty bots can switch their target. Or hell, you probably don't even know about bot difficulty in general.Because quite frankly it does not matter and I don't care. MVM is not difficult. You have to memorize bot logic because your class is dogshit and needs every advantage while chad 5 iq pootis heavy can pop a $100 crit canteen and accomplish the same thing playing on a controller.
>>739531358The server does. Clients by default do not.>>739531643https://comfig.app/ can generate a config for you.at the bare minimum you should set these in your autoexeccl_updaterate 66cl_cmdrate 66cl_interp 0rate 80000cl_interp_ratio 2
>>739503184For me it was RTX x100 where they actually tried to balance their x100 and you had shit like the stock scattergun becoming a slug gun and the loosecannon being a instakill if you got a donk.Still mad it's dead.All the fun creative shit is dead on tf2. There's not even freak fortress anymore.
>>739521530>How does ANYONE find this fun?I'm not about to let a sniper main free cast
>>739532093>interp 0 but interp ratio 0why?
>>739530609>scout is the easiest to replace.No. You need scout to collect money on higher difficulties because scout brings milk and infinite single target minicrits on top of being the best choice to actually grab that money. There's also the problem with cash dropping onto ledges, dumbass soldiers not cleaning up after killing bots on flank, etc.You probably don't realize just how important milk healing is either.>You can get 2 stabs in as they pass you if you have every speed and firerate upgrade but just barelyYou can bodyblock it as it backs into you. You can also always sap it for absolutely free, it's a stock item. You can also stab when it trips over your heavy/sentry/soldier's rockets.Basic super scouts in general aren't really a problem in higher level of play and the fact that you think they're some sort of insurmountable obstacle speaks volumes about you, I'm sorry to say.>DR is not godmode.It's not but the speed boost helps you avoid unnecessary damage. I know you imagine the spy just standing there and taking thousands of damage but you should actually use it to reach cover and let bots calm down and retarget your team while your disguise finishes.>Heavy maxes out his damage for $1400And he's also proportionally held back by his lack of further damage upgrades, yes. That's one of the reasons a spy can outdamage a heavy with a kritzkrieg medic on him.>Add an extra $400 if you want bullet penBullet penetration is the basic upgrade heavy needs to be effective in any way once more than a single bot shows up on the field. It's the upgrade that allows him to function as a tank, you bodyblock the giant bot at a corner and shit on it and the bot behind it. It's also his really only way of dealing with any giant med. So you're a shit heavy as well. >Spy needs $2400Spy maxes out at ~$2200 actually. That extra swing speed only comes into play when there are multiple giant medics active at the same time, and that's too rare to matter.
>>739530609>Heavy is not useless early gameHeavy is boring however. He also can't deal with uber meds in any feasible way, and you specifically are too dumb to deal with any giant meds in general.>Medic can sit behind cover and has a shield.Okay, so you don't bodyblock with your shield, you don't damage shit, you don't revive, and we already established you don't understand medic aggro stealing. Garbage medic as well. Can you play well as any class?>Lower DPS = Have to DR more often = More wasted timeI suppose you believe that you absolutely must trigger DR after every stab, huh? Here's a little tip, you can actually often get away without popping it. Especially when facing lone giants. And especially if you have speed upgrades.Also, L'etranger is a thing.>Takes 0.5s to swap weapons to sap first.Yep. Still plenty of time, like I said. Don't tell me you can't do a basic stab and sap. Also, engies always place the tele a little bit away from their sentry so you're never actually in the middle of a group when dealing with one, and projectiles need a bit of time to reach you - enough time to get DR up. You're only ever in danger if it's spawning scattergun scouts.>That's still wasted time walking over to kill the engie.10 seconds? Soldier needs more time to get there and actually kill the engi, you know that. Engies typically have 250-500 hp, too, just like minigiants.>Sitting around being useless again while you wait for your sapper to recharge.Ha! I knew you were a retard!Sapper doesn't get used up if it's placed on a building. Play a match as a class before trying to whine about said class, you dumdum.
>>739503184Mine was surfing all night while in LSD and laughing my ass off to scatman mic spam
>>7395324122009-10 btw
>>739532256I'm not an expert on this I'm just copying what I see recommended in most configs. I personally like cl_interp 0 over 0.03 because IIRC it affects how quickly your attacks trigger on the server when you left click vs slightly better hitscan hitreg.
>>739503184Also going in an empty server with a friend when pyro update came out to do achievements and get the new weapons.Man you really don't understand how good and different this game was... i used to fucking love tf2 man. It felt like the greatest thing ever. Now it feels like a cartoon where I just get inst ganked.
>>739501920TF2 will never shut down because TF2 shutting down and taking all its items with it means the same could happen to CS2 which means everyone's virtual banks have absolutely nothing guaranteeing their safety.
>>739529693>Find servers with retarded weapons>points for ranking>quake sound effects>download custom files when joining>doors open the second after I touch themah... home.
>>739526279Based
>>739493776>Pyro has to do a bunch of hard to land combos in order to do any amount of decent damage>Create a weapon that makes it easier to land those combos in exchange for less damage>People never stop bitching about itMeanwhile, Soldier and Demo can do the same or more damage just by landing a hit with their primary weapon.Fuck people who complain about the Scorchshot and refuse to make ANYTHING easier for the Pyro.
>>739520456yes i did and then some. replayed a dark zone a good couple times seeing what scout builds i could get running, the map is fun by itself which by nature encourages replayability and trying different shit out. the extra loadout items are cool, my favorite is the pistol that shoots rockets that are extremely affected by gravity, you can really fuck shit up if you get projectile speed + the overclock custom upgrade on it, crits on kill nukes the map.also replayed that greyed out cat map a lot too. wave 6 is fucking shit but you can just leave if you want, the real good shit is wave 4 and 5, and it turns out that wave 5 has *three* different boss minigames.why the fuck are the faggots in the potato.tf community so spiteful of these april fools events? 3 whole years without any new events like this, always replying to people asking if they'll come back with malice and venom. this shit was the most fun ive had playing tf2 in a loooooong LONG time.
>>739531909>Maxed speed upgrades is still slower than a rocket jumping soldierWhy do I have a feeling that you're a retarded soldier main?>So headshot them before they setup.Do you like, only play decoy?>Just a worse mad milk you need to be in melee range to useDoesn't matter. You said you need to waste a ton of money to be effective against super scouts and that's clearly wrong. So now you're trying to throw cheap insults at the weapon? How does that help your argument? It's still free and lets the spy rape any giant scout alone. Unlike human scout, who needs his team to do it.>What about shit spawning behind you?You are aware that damage falls off over longer range, right? Hitscan ain't a problem. Also soldiers are typically set to easy/medium so you can dodge their shots basically as long as you're moving, you don't even have to look at them.>Being a one trick pony isn't a good thingIt is when the giants are the only real problem a wave can have. They're the threat, and they're the reason anyone gets all their fancy uprades. You won't find an expert mission with only small trash and no giants.>Demo and sniper can contribute against trashAnyone can deal with small bots. It's just not really worth doing as a spy if there are giants still coming. If you want to do it, then that's an actual reason to upgrade sapper I guess.>Circlestrafing is putting yourself at the mercy of lag. Lmao.>It's added complexity on a class that already struggles to stay aliveLmao. It's ez.>10s is an eternity in TF2. Your ~1000dps goes in the toiletYou don't have to have DR fully charged when you go out stabbing. And you don't have to use it every time. Also L'etranger.>Because quite frankly it does not matter and I don't careLMAO!>MVM is not difficultYeah, like I said, you're a retard that doesn't know the first thing about MvM so now you're trying to pull an argument that it's easy.It's fun to play spy. And it's fun to make a 5 iq pootis heavy like you seethe.
>>739531594That one's funnier. Other one was trying too hard like an edgy teenager.
>>739528915>why doesn't pyro just spycheck the entire backline to make sure some faggot isn't moonlighting as a sniper with the pre-nerf dead ringer and health bar peekingdo you even read the words you write?it wasn't a matter of locating him, it was a matter of actually killing him. at least if a sniper somehow snuck behind your entire lines he'd get called out and killed with extreme prejudice, you can't do that against someone that takes only 10% when he feels threatened.
>>739532310>You probably don't realize just how important milk healing is either.Nigger no one is saying scout isn't good but he's what usually gets replaced in most MVM games.>You can also always sap it for absolutely free, it's a stock itemSo can scout with milk, or soldier with rocket specialist, or heavy can body block, etc etc.>Basic super scouts in general aren't really a problem in higher level of playYou were the first one to bring up super scouts.>It's not but the speed boost helps you avoid unnecessary damageBeing slightly faster than a base scout does not make you immune to projectiles and spy has no easy source of healing.>And he's also proportionally held back by his lack of further damage upgrades, yesThe slightly higher damage becomes irrelevant when you add DR downtime, cheaper upgrades, heavy can get bullet pen, you have to walk to change targets and heavy doesn't, etc etc.>Bullet penetration is the basic upgrade heavy needs to be effective in any way once more than a single bot shows up on the fieldYou're getting 0 value if it's staggered waves or stuff like melee heavies early game. It depends on the mission.>Spy maxes out at ~$2200 actually. That extra swing speed only comes into play when there are multiple giant medics active at the same time, and that's too rare to matter.[citation needed]
holy shit the most braindead faggots are queuing up tonight
>>739532408>He also can't deal with uber meds in any feasible wayso run a demo or sniper. whoop di doo.>muh giant medsspy mains would have you believe every mvm mission is nothing but giant meds. everyone knows spy is good for this situation the problem is that situation comes up rarely.>Especially when facing lone giants.>Here's a little tip, you can actually often get away without popping itself report that you're playing on babby shit difficulty missions where you never have multiple enemies to worry about.>Yep. Still plenty of time,Sentry can do a 180 in 1s. 0.5s to walk over to the tele after the stab is not a large window.>Don't tell me you can't do a basic stab and sapTele isn't directly next to the engie.>Soldier needs more time to get there and actually kill the engielearn2rocketjump.>Sapper doesn't get used up if it's placed on a buildingTrue but you still have to sit and wait for it to finish.
>>739533791>he's what usually gets replacedOh god, you are actually just running stock missions all the time.>So can scout with milk$200>soldier with rocket specialist$300 >heavy can body blockTrue. He can dump all his money into dps. He shouldn't though, his role is to tank.>You were the first one to bring up super scoutsAs an example of an easy kill because they're the easiest giants to kill and can be 2shot early.You latched onto them. And you're treating them as some sort of a problem.>does not make you immune to projectiles No, but it does have a damage reduction and lets you strafe away faster. It's also helpful when you're being peppered by hitscan and need to break LoS.>spy has no easy source of healingTrue, but he can buy one. For anyone following this, one level of regen is good on spy since it counters chip damage.>slightly higher damage becomes irrelevant when you add DR downtime2 seconds of downtime. DR can be spammed in MvM just as fast as it could be spammed back when it could be recharged by ammo packs.>cheaper upgrades, heavy can get bullet penDid you actually admit that bullet penetration is good after I told you that it is necessary? Wow. Well, at least you learned something today.>you have to walk to change targets and heavy doesn't, etc etc.And heavy can't do anything to targets that are far away without popping a kritz, he can't easily reposition if he gets launched, he has to commit every time even if it means death, does nothing to a tank, does nothing to uber meds, etc etc.Also, walking is the issue? Nigga please, we already established that a spy gets either a permanent +30% speed or a constant DR speed buff. Or both. And don't forget the aggro management.>0 value if it's staggered waves or stuff like melee heaviesYou are playing easy missions.>[citation needed]Tell me, when does that fourth level of swing speed benefit you?Or alternatively, tell me what missions have multiple giant medics active at the same time?
>>739534790>so run a demo or sniperSure, I do that when I feel like playing demo or sniper.>spy mains would have you believe every mvm mission is nothing but giant medsGiant meds act like an extra healthbar with uber/megaheal for the giant they're attached to. Harder missions utilize them and they're a problem because they can force the bomb to move especially if they pop late.And spy is very effective on any giant, other than sentry buster on a technicality.Also not a spy main. I play all classes.>that situation comes up rarelyYou are playing easy missions.>babby shit difficulty missions where you never have multiple enemies to worry about.Hah. Figured you'd try to go back to the "spy should kill small trash" line of defense. Nah, if there's trash behind then that actually means you should use DR. You just don't have to use it if the small trash is already cleared out by your team, giants typically aren't that scary because they're just a single source of damage.>Sentry can do a 180 in 1sYou circlestrafe it. You can do the sentry dance on top of it. Nigga, the sentry isn't a problem.Wow, you actually cannot deal with a sentry as a spy. Amazing how the biggest shitters are always the loudest when it comes to balancing discussion.>0.5s to walk over to the tele after the stab is not a large window>Tele isn't directly next to the engieWhy would you??? Just stab and sap?? If the tele is active just use DR, sap and leave.Oh wait. You are thinking stab and sap refers to sapping the tele. You are a genuine retard.You sap the sentry. THE SENTRY, nigga. Then you damage it with your gun to destroy it faster and sap the tele. You really are a 5 IQ moron.>learn2rocketjumpSo you ARE a retarded soldier main indeed! Mystery solved.>True butBruh you already made the mistake, you won't save face. And you don't sit still and wait, you shoot the sentry. Or butterknife it if you have swing speed upgraded.
>>739533189>Why do I have a feeling that you're a retarded soldier main?Do soldiers make you seethe because you haven't graduated from waddling yet?>Do you like, only play decoy?You can headshot them outside of decoy.>You said you need to waste a ton of money to be effective against super scouts and that's clearly wrongIt sounded like you were trying to stab them as they walked past. I would still rather have milk.>Unlike human scout, who needs his team to do it.As opposed to spy doing jack shit to help with clearing common bots I know which I would rather have.>You are aware that damage falls off over longer range, right? Hitscan ain't a problem.How far back from the spawn is your team sitting that spawning bots pose 0 threat to you?>It is when the giants are the only real problem a wave can have.Yeah when your team is carrying you and doing all the cleanup for you.>Lmao. It's ez.So ez that's why you never see it happen ever.>You don't have to have DR fully charged when you go out stabbing.Still downtime other classes don't have.>Yeah, like I said, you're a retard that doesn't know the first thing about MvM so now you're trying to pull an argument that it's easy.because it is. play any other horde shooter for once MVM is a joke.>opportunity cost doesnt matter>travel time doesnt matter>trash clear doesnt matter>upgrade cost doesnt matter>spy being made of tissue paper doesnt matter>every mission is made of giant meds>circle stabbing is 100% consistent>you always have a teammate drawing aggro perfectly for you>just ignore everything that shows spy is garbage and he's good!!I pity the pubbers who have to carry you while you eat shit trying and failing to circlestrafe a giant for the 10th time. clearly wasting my time arguing with world's biggest spy main who has a cope for every problem with spy.
>>739535586>Do soldiers make you seetheNo. Retards like you make me laugh, though, if that counts?Funny how you immediately start seething when called out.You do realize soldier isn't that good in mvm, right? He doesn't really have a role to fulfill. His best quality is being a buff banner dispenser for the engi+heavy and a support for pyro on the tank. Low damage in general, too.>You can headshot them outside of decoy.Bigrock? Mannhattan? Even mannworks has enough cover for them to hide from your scary scope. Also every community map ever. >It sounded like you were trying to stab them as they walked pastI made like 5 posts about sapping them for free. You can't read.>As opposed to spy doing jack shit to help with clearing common bots I know which I would rather haveBut you said scout is the first to be replaced. Which is also dumb because scout is nearly mandatory by design. But you wouldn't know that because you only run easy missions...>How far back from the spawn is your team sitting that spawning bots pose 0 threat to you?Lol. Killing giants outside their spawn is actually the easy part and I believe even you could handle it. They're also unable to shoot you when they're still outside of the playable area.Why do you think that small bots outside of effective 2shot range pose a threat? >when your team is carrying you Imagine thinking that small trash alone pose a problem. I mean, technically a lot of uber med pairs counts as small trash, but you get what I mean. And you can upgrade the sapper.>So ez that's why you never see it happen ever.Correction. YOU don't see it happen because YOU don't see spies because YOU only ever run easy missions.>Still downtime other classes don't have.Right, because scout doesn't have a downtime on his milk. Or engi doesn't have to reload his sentry. It's two entire seconds of downtime.>because it is. play any other horde shooter for once MVM is a joke.You are playing easy missions. And I do play other games.
Fuck Sniper, fuck being able to insta kill from any range.
>>739535586>opportunity cost doesnt matter>travel time doesnt matter>trash clear doesnt matter>upgrade cost doesnt matterIt all matters. >spy being made of tissue paper doesnt matterSpy is weak and that's why damage res matters. I don't know what makes you think otherwise. He is actually a glass cannon, possibly more than any other class. But he's got good damage and he's fun to play.It's also why dodging damage matters, too.>every mission is made of giant medsNot every mission is made of giant meds but every mission is made of giants. Why is that so hard to understand? Why do I have to repeat myself?>circle stabbing is 100% consistentCirclestrafing is easy and even if you fuck up you can use DR to leave, pop off two shots to recharge it and go back in. If you're smart you also hold that giant's attention the entire time only letting go when you're ready to stab.>you always have a teammate drawing aggro perfectly for youYou SHOULD always have a teammate, or roughly five of them drawing aggro from you. It's no skin off their back in any way whatsoever. What the hell do you think happens when a teammate draws aggro away from spy? That they get marked for death or something?Where the fuck are you that you're alone? Are you the nigger that keeps suiciding behind enemy lines and leaving small amounts of cash on the ground?I'm kind of glad I don't have to play with you. But on the other hand I'd love to show you up.
>>739494606I swear that sometimes I'm the only person that played TF2 in 2009 on /v/.The problem with the ambassador was that it existed at a time where everyone played fuckass maps like Dustbowl that were nothing but chokepoints, there was no damage falloff on fucking anything, and nobody had any sort of alternative toolkit to counter anything.Yes, the Ambassador was fucked up in a game where you aimed down a 2-foot wide corridor from 150+ feet away and did 100 damage to 4 people in a line because it pierced.It had fuck all to do with your aim as well since almost every map was perfectly flat terrain as well.
>>739537316it pierced? thats new
You know when you look at custom weapon mods you realize very quickly that a lot of them just turn every class into scout or add nothing that is in tune with what the class is meant to do.What are your weapon ideas, /v/? It's not like we'll ever get new content anyways.
>>739540558a pistol what makes enemies bleed. it does low damage but the tick rate will finish off stragglers
>>739540558New flamethrower that's meant to be more of an airblast machine.+you can airblast 40% faster+15% increased range for flames and airblast-25% airblast cost+extinguishing teammates restores 30 hp-50% afterburn damage and duration-10% direct flame damage+20% switch to delay~Holding right click charges the airblast and pushes enemies further back. Holding increases airblast cost to 30 and makes reflected projectiles temporarily faster. It also pushes enemy sticky bombs much further.
>>739493776i'am convinced the hate for this weapon is a soldier and sniperfag psyop.
>>739494606they nerfed the amby too hard so now they need to buff it to compensate.>damage falloff remains the same>add damage rampup even higher>make it deal 130 fucking damage per headshot at closer ranges.>scouts now have to fucking dodge for thier lives>snipers with Razorbacks are now more easier to deal with counterplaywise.>secondary buff allow for minicrits on off cooldown headshots.Thats it ambassador is fucking fixed
>>739542470>>add damage rampup even higher>>make it deal 130 fucking damageThat would actually be a good change. Like if you're packing the one gun meant to counter the razorback and you're touching the sniper you should be able to kill him.Just don't make it too effective, a player trying to run away from you should not be oneshot.How would you fix the sandman?
Getting hit by the sandman should also disable your alt-fire for the duration.You can't airblast, detonate, pop uber, invis etc.
>>739542739>Just don't make it too effective, a player trying to run away from you should not be oneshot.Nah thats what I set the max damage threshold to 130 because only snipers that arent paying attention and engaging scouts would feel the full force of the weapon.As for the sandman we dont want to stun people outright >remove - health debuff>increase swing speed>but buff damage 10%>decrease ball charge speed put it inline with the giftwrap.>new status effect>Konked- Basically flashbangs and discolors the enemy characters screen.>the longer the distance the longer the effect lasts>close up effect ball knocks back players.
>>739543336Addendum also wanna add a dazed affect when you get hit making your crosshairs uncontrollable but you can still move and dodge but I figured thats already too much and it could be unfun to fight against. Yes if you hit a sniper with my Sandman changes it basically completely keeps him from doing hisj job.
>>739521530It throws snipers off balance allowing my team to push up, but really seeing one of those 2000 dollar unusual hat and australium gun faggots rage and seeth every time they get hit by a pyro dressed like a firefighter is why I really do it
>>739500810Accurate.
>>739543336What's the downside...?
>>739547970The downside is no swingspeed the scout can only swing in one second intervals with the thing basically making it awful for close encounters, we could also drop the 10% damage increase because its all not that importaint.
>>739498359I have it equiped cause it looks cool but then again I only ever play pyro on dodgeball servers
>>739549086Why do you think it looks cool, do you watch ricknmorty?
>>739542971>sandman
>>739498915Amby was never stronger than stock at any point. Stock revolver flat out beats it at close-mid range. Amby was always a long range gimmick.The truth is amby was used because it's a fun sidegrade and getting headshots are satisfying even though blamming noobs with stock revolver was more consistent. Of course loud minorities like you got everything fun in game like that removed because you thought it was the weapon that was op. Never once you thought perhaps that pubstombing spy was genuinely too good for you to handle no matter what class or loadout he used. But keep on blaming dead ringer, ambassador. Never learn and improve.
>>739538413No, it didn't. Not with the 102 headshot damage version.
>>739494606the direct hit is not a direct upgrade, it can't blow up a group of enemies. Its also easier to reflect. You are giving something up even if your aim is perfect.The ambassador had no weakness and no counterplay because the point of spy is not be detected until after he makes the first shot.
>>739553837the ambassador deals more damage than the recolver in 99% of scenarios (you shoot someone who doesnt know you're there)
>>739510196I see this and all I envision is Gabes corpulent form strangling TF2 going "Make money! Make money! Make money!", and TF2 meekly answers, "But I am already making millions for you...", to which Gabe the Greedy retorts "You need to make billions. I need a new yatch!" before losing interest and wobbling over to the kitchen, tossing a ruined TF2 aside that no Valve employee wants to touch since they are all there for that fat Valve bonus.
>>739500810lol you keep spamming this person but theyre kinda based
>>739554170You are full of shit and I will prove it.Literally only 1 thing about amby was changed by nuvalve. And that's reduced damage at long range.SO. If it is better than 99% of situations including long range (which stock wasn't used for) it should still be 100% better than stock but it's not.And you should kill yourself.
>>739540558Here's my medic ideas.>Secondary:+ Can now heal up to three targets at once.+ Healing range is increased 25%.+ Uber works the same as normal medigun, but with no penalty for flashing.- 15% slower heal rate for every target being healed.- 20% uber rate for every target being healed.- Ubers last 3 seconds shorter.>Primary:+ Crossbow that fires bolts that apply 2 seconds of speedup as well.- 20% less burst healing and damage.>Melee:+ Uber stays active on the medic while the weapon is out- 20% slower weapon switch speed.- 15% faster uber drain while active.
>>739494606>sniper is caughthes fucked>spy is caughtlol i press dead wingy and i suwvive :-) yaaaay!also DH is not a direct upgrade you shitter, not having splash damage is a gargantuan downgrade, how can you be this shitty at TF2
TacoBot
>>739554527any situation the revolver is supposedly better was a bad situation to pull out the gun in the first place.
night time maps when
>>739540558Scout secondary>fires low-gravity projectile nails>no movement penalty while backpedalingPyro flaregun-type secondary>applies mark-for-death on burning targets>mark is attached to the duration of afterburn>no crit on burning targetsSpy cloak>can noclip through enemy players/buildings>100% stronger jump strength while cloaked>no cloak flicker from touching enemies>cloak is silent, decloak has a unique sound effect>decloaking inside someone telefrags yourself, idiotMedigun>+25% uber build rate>teammates in a radius around you gain increased fire rate and reload speed>uber target has unlimited ammo and doesn't need to reload (aside from weapons that must, such as Beggars)Demoman sword>deals knockback>+40% swing speed>minicrits airborne launched targetsLet's see if anyone here is perceptive enough to know what these are all collectively based on.
>>739494606Literally every item in that picture is shit. Real, quality TF2 is stock only>B-ButGet raped by niggers, unlockfag
>>739520456Best meme event so far, but I wish they'd add some legendary difficulty mission for those that look for challenge (like that one coastrock mission with 0 credits)
>>739521132I flank and ambush, primarily, as Pyro.
>>739554419I have seen them on here before what did they do?
>>739512693No. You have a choice to walk away.
>>739556431some schizo is obsessed with them it seems. they made a post here with their username visible and someone found their steam
>>739554419>>739557438hi â–¡â–¡Wolfieâ–¡â–¡
>>739537316I was there anon. Miss those days
the crossbow ruined the game all things considered. If you dont use it people get mad at you
>>739553953https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtvjhJyb9-o
>>739494606Ambassador and Sniper should both be removed for making the game worse.
>>739557438Kek
>25 year old game
>>739494606I'm sure that the people who makes these retarded images didn't even know about TF2 before the amby nerf
>>739562021Spycucks even went as far as to use scripts to use fov changes + lower sens as a zoom for the ambassador lmao.
This might be controversial but I don't think devs should design games with the thought of "what if some furfag spends almost the next 20 years playing with this weapon?" in mind
>>739553837The Ambassador was quite definitely much better than stock for the 28 days between May 6, 2009, and June 23, 2009.
>>739558769>passive reloadThis is the biggest problem with it. And any attempt to nerf the crossbow will be met with "but it makes medic more fun to play, otherwise it's just boring hold down m1 and dodge attacks!" Either gut the passive reload so the crossbow is a commitment to pull out (could even give it 3 bolts per reload as long as you actually NEED to reload it), or give the syringe guns passive reload so there's actually a reason to use themOr give medic concussion grenades, scout as well
>>739553837>Of course loud minorities like you got everything fun in game likeI never complained about the amby really other than putting a diet sniper rifle on a class that doesn't have the downsides of sniper is stupid. Amby should've just been the "gun spy" subclass weapon, making you sacrifice invis or something to be able to output decent DPS on the frontline
>>739565550Gun spy weapon was supposed to be enforcer but Valve chickened out
>>739565008the reload animation has always been shit. making all of medic's primaries passively reload would be a massive quality of life improvement.
>>739565809The enforcer was such a dumb design>lets make a revolver that doesn't require headshots do deal higher DPS>should we just buff the stock revolver then?>no lets make a weird middle ground dependent on being disguised or not >>739565008Bonk shoul've been replaced with conc nades+ can fling yourself as far as a sticky jump- can't double jumpsomething basic like that, it would've been 10x more fun than "drink and run at enemies"
>>739493776Only enjoyment they ruin is for snipertrannies.
>>739498856>2014: Stickybombs are OP, valve pls delete!They were supposed to be used defensively, not offensively.
>>739540558Alright here are some new Spy ideas.>Watch+ Instant cloak.+ 60% faster decloak.- Can only cloak at full cloak meter.- Cloaking and decloaking is much louder and leaves a cloud of smoke behind.>Revolver+ No damage indicator on hit.+ 40% less damage falloff.- 60% less damage rampup.- 20% less damage dealt.>Sapper+ When active, damage the spy takes is done to the building instead.- Doesn't disable buildings.
>>739508556I use both :^)It's a very fun play style.Back scratcher complements it well (besides the obvious Powerjack choice)
>>739503184Balloon Race was my peak memory. Shit blew my mind as a kid since I didn't think maps could be that big.As far as I can tell though that map is gone.
>>739494606
>>739531680What even are scripts? Is it cheats? Like lmaobox? Stuff like that?
>>739493776Didn't they nerf the fuck out of the fire axe? Why would you care about the flare gun unless... you were a spylet... OHNONONONONONONONOHAHAHAHHAHAHA
I'm pretty bad, I admit it. But sometimes I feel like these Snipers are cheating and no one says shit, ever! I peek, and immediately get headshoted, or the Sniper can somehow headshot me while staring point blank at me, and then he consecutively headshots three other people in the spam of less than a second and no one says shit. What the fuck.
>>739569158>+ 40% less damage falloff.>- 20% less damage dealt.wow, now I can deal a whopping 2 extra damage at long range compared to the normal revolver
>>739503184Same... I miss the weeabootique. Mic spam and tom foolery every night. I was just wondering what they were all up to nowadays and looked up old youtube videos of the server. I miss it
Need a dispenser here!
>>739523464pyro is the most skill based character in the game by far and its not even close remotelyinb4 some retard who can't rocket jump as pyro tells me its not
*sigh*
>>739571165rocket jumping as pyro is completely pointless.
Convoy...Home...
>>739571884>mobility is pointless yeah, do me a favor and keep your noob takes away from me bub
>>739570554mobility that nearly kills you in the process is pointless and pyro isn't soldier so he can't land on high ground and fire down on enemies in relative safety.
>>739572184wrong quote >>739571963
>>739572184Well he can land anywhere a soldier or demoman would, but his goal is to close ground not make ground. The fact that you can't even figure that out tells me all I need to know. You are a brown f2p player
>>739571963the practical application of rocket jump mobility for pyro is to get into position for an ambush or to close distance.if you're actively in a fight with a soldier, he's not just going to stare at you flying towards him unless he's retarded. you can get flashy kills on retards but for all intents and purposes pyro cannot capitalize on the high-ground for bombing in the same way that soldier can. A flying pyro isn't a threat until he lands next to someone. Soldier can hold high ground for prolonged periods and is an active threat while falling.being fully in control of your own mobility is why scout, soldier, and demoman are such powerful generalists. Pyro can only equal a fraction of their mobility reactively and only if an enemy player gives him an explosion to ride.
>>739572324>but his goal is to close ground not make groundand then do what. your damage output is still dogshit. you can't win a DPS race against any other class.
>>739572490>the practical application of rocket jump mobility for pyro is to get into position for an ambushHow the fuck are you going to ambush somebody who is already shooting at you retardStopped reading there, never @ me again, you're fat brown and gay and malding cope more chud
>>739572613Pyro can easily out out DPS a soldier in a shotgun duel considering he moves faster. If the soldier decides to keep his rocket launcher out then you just reflect it at him while also burning him. modern /v/ truly is just full of shitters now, huh?
>>739572857>Pyro can easily out out DPS a soldier in a shotgun duel considering he moves fasteryou're nearly dead after rocket jumping.>If the soldier decides to keep his rocket launcher out then you just reflect it at him while also burning himreflecting at close range is guessing and any good soldier is not going to be that predictable.
>>739572990>reflecting at close range is guessingshitter.
>>739573047it is literally impossible you stupid nigger. humans cannot react that quickly.being generous it will take someone about 200ms-250ms to react to something happening on screen.a rocket has already traveled 14ft in that time. anything within 14ft it is impossible to reflect on reaction.
Did valve change how to set your hitsound? Mine randomly stopped working and I only get the default one, no matter what i do. Tried it several times now with different ones too, nothing works
