yes pls :(
the last mainline zelda game was on the wii...

>>739587890
no thank you

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>>739587890
Its only a matter of time before we go back to the classic formula. I mean, it took them six (6) years to TotK, and that wasn't even a whole new game. The open-world and gimmicky physics powers are too labor-intensive, nuZelda is an unsustainable formula.

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>>739587890
Why does this board talk about Zelda so much? Cause it's a Nintendo franchise? There hasn't been a new Zelda game for 3 years now and even that was just a reskin of the previous one.

>>739588679
>why does this board talk about this well made franchise so much?
Nobody knows

>>739588229
You think they will be able to make a whole new game in less time than it took them to clone botw?

>>739588679
Zelda is one of the core gamer franchises that everyone has played, like it’s an integral to the medium’s history and most gamers played them as kids and a lot of people never let go of it because unlike Mario, Zelda still has a fairly mature tone where you plays as a guy with a sword and shield who slays monsters in a fantasy realm. It’s quite possibly the most entry level fantasy series ever, not just for gaming but for other mediums as well. I mean it gets a lot of competition when we get into novels, but y’know. A lot of Zelda players here probably play other fantasy games like Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Witcher, Final Fantasy, etc. as well

>>739588679
>dood why do people want to talk about a long running franchise with some of the biggest impact on the industry ever
I think a better question is why retarded faggots have a goddamn conniption every time someone tries to talk about a VIDEOGAME on the FUCKING VIDEOGAME BOARD

>>739587890
>>739588056
kys fag. ocarina of time wasn't linear. you're probably a retarded TP fag

I prefer if we got more wiggle room on the order of dungeons. OOT has some, like you only need the bow for water temple so you can do Forest or Fire first. If you do Forest, you can go get the hookshot and do water temple instead of Fire. After those three, Shadow and Spirit can be done in either order. Its not that much, but its enough.

Playing TP a month ago its super straight forward and weirdly with that the old dungeon items aren't too heavily utilized besides the bow per usual.

>>739588679
>There hasn't been a new Zelda game for 3 years now and even that was just a reskin of the previous one.
Exactly. People are getting antsy for new content. Especially people who don't feel like BOTW/TOTK were good Zelda games - the last game that had the actual Zelda formula was 13 years ago. It was a foundational franchise to a lot of gamers, people aren't going to just forget about it. Plus we have rumours of an OOT remake circulating, and TP just got a pc port, so people are thinking about the series again, that's why there's been a buzz around it lately.

>>739587890
zelda was never linear

>>739587890
I liked Link Between Worlds for the wiggle room it had. Plus it finally made rupees useful.

>>739589442
The formula was old and tired even in the Wii era.

>>739587890
You would have been clamoring for an open world Zelda if you were old enough to actually play linear Zelda when it was released. Or if the youtubers you watched told you to. Either or.

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>>739589005
I've been playing games as long as I remember and I only heard of Zelda a few years ago when gamers online acted like BOTW was the video game equivalent of the Creation of Adam. Some of the Zelda games I played are decent, but they're really nothing too extraordinary. I was always a PC gamer and the only Nintendo console I had was a DS when I was a kid. So the only Nintendo franchises I knew were Mario, Pokemon, and that Dog game.

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>>739589584
>you only want classic zelda because you're a contrarian zoomer lol
Retarded piece of shit ass blacker-than-darkness giganigger.

>>739589653
What country are you from? I’m guess Zelda isn’t popular in the Balkans or Eastern Europe.

>>739589807
*guessing

>>739589583
Less tired than the BOTW formula already is after two games.
I think it could have used some switch ups, but they didn't need to throw it out the window entirely. That was too extreme. Majora's Mask is proof you can make something different that still feels like a Zelda game, the 3D Mario games are also examples of games that feel fresh with each new entry without abandoning the core tenants like BOTW did. They just got a little too complacent with TP and SS. But I'd still rather have another by-the-numbers game like that than a 3rd open world slop game.

>>739587890
I hope they iterate on the chemistry system and made the weather and geography dyanmic using voxel technology.

>>739588229
They will never go back to that outdated design paradigm, retard.

>>739589269
Child Link dungeons in any order (maybe a new fourth one too) Adult Link dungeons in any order, this is the dream.

>>739589807
Funnily enough I'm from America. But I played Valve and Paradox games growing up. So I guess from my game choice, you can say I'm from the Balkans, haha.

>>739590030
They will when the next Zelda ends up coming out in 2032, sells worse than TotK and Aonuma gets retired.

>>739589653
You need to be 18 or older to be on this board, champ.

>>739587890
The zoomers demand openworld everything

>>739589884
Botw and Totk cannot be tired, it's the future of the franchise.

>>739590180
lmfao

>>739587890
Zelda is supposed to be nonlinear though. You mean "linear" in sense that items that you get in dungeons open up more parts of the map, but that hasn't been done competently ever since LTTP.

It should go back linear because it will probably tell a better story, have better side quest, and better puzzles. The problem with TOTK is there’s nothing to do but grind costumes or get resources for batteries. That’s not good gameplay. What’s the point of having an open world with nothing in it and a sky with nothing it too? The shrines suck and it gets old quick in TOTK not really BOTW. If they did open world like BOTW/TOTK but made it more linear it’s fine.

>>739590096
Next game is due out in 2027, they worked on it alongside Totk. A good example to look toward is Super Mario Galaxy 2, to 3D World, to Odyssey.
(3 years later and then 4 years later)

>>739590274
>Next game is due out in 2027
I also have an uncle that works at Nintendo.

>>739590202
Buckle up, zoomer. If you don't enjoy Zelda at its finest, then you're washed.

>>739590180
the formula was already tired like a decade prior with ass creed

>even though 90 percent of the games are linear it’s not linear because Zelda 1
>Zelda 1 was more linear

Holy retards

>>739589653
>"what a cute drawing, I shall check the artist's other work out!"
>it's anuses and weird nipples with piercings
Oh

>>739590254
Thinking open world cannot support "good" story and missions is retarded.

>>739590324
Unrelated game and series. Those games are nothing like Zelda.

>>739590078
I think Deku Tree should remain the first dungeon you do, it just makes sense narratively. But Dodongo and Jabu Jabu you should definitely be able to do in either order. I also sort of like the Forest Temple being the mandated first adult dungeon because there's a nice narrative echo with having the first thing you do as an adult return to Kokiri forest and reunite with Saria. it sets the whole tone. I suppose people don't actually care about that kind of thing anymore though.

>>739590398
yeah they are nothing like zelda, makes it weird why nintendo decided to add ass cancer ubislop towers and big empty overworlds to rip them off

>>739590224
ALBW did non-linear fine while still staying within the formula. I really thought they were using that to test the future of the series but then they just went full ubisoft-wannabe retardation.

>>739590405
I disagree, I think the Deku Tree should send you to Hyrule Castle to meet Zelda before you enter a dungeon. Afterwards Impa should point you toward the three dungeons you could do in any order.

>>739590441
They are the greatest Zelda games Nintendo has made, cope.

>>739590327
the Zelda 1 defense is such a massive larp. 90% of BOTW-zoomers never played another Zelda game before BOTW, let alone the first one but they all act like they were massive fans of it. its just cause the devs said they were inspired by Zelda 1 in an interview and they parrot that, but just cause there was influence doesn't mean the final product is anything like Zelda 1 (and it isn't)

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>>739589653
>I've been playing games as long as I remember and I only heard of Zelda a few years ago
It's literally one of the most popular game series in the world. How did you manage this despite knowing Mario and Pokemon when even the DS had two of them? If you said Metroid I'd kind of understand since it's slightly more niche, but it's one of Nintendo's biggest brands and constantly spoken of in basically every group for how good of a series it is.

>>739590618
you can tell what's wrong with Wind Waker when you play it, and it's not enough like Botw is what, a game that is informed by Zelda 1

>>739590224
He means he wants it to stagnant outdated crap. He keeps replaying an Oot randomizer and goads himself into thinking it's peak.

>>739590558
nah that would fuck up the pacing. and narratively, Link needs to face a trial at home before being sent out into the broader world. it also serves as a gameplay tutorial.
I don't really get the obsession with wanting everything to be non linear to be honest. like I think it's cool that you can do a few dungeons in any order, and you could widen that a little more, but there needs to be *some* structure. is your experience really THAT much better because you can do Dodongo before Deku Tree? I don't think so, it would be a neat novelty but it's not worth sacrificing pacing and narrative.

>>739590710
I remember in Zelda 1 when the guy in the cave handed me my entire toolkit in the first 5 minutes of the game and then I wandered around collecting meaningless baubles, oh and there were no dungeons either. good times. that's what Zelda is all about.

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Aren’t shrines like an oot randomizer but worse because they lack themes and layouts?

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>making a zelda thread on bad faith monday

I want them to do something different I don't expect to like, because I don't trust Nintendo's current talent to understand what made the old formula for Zelda so appealing. It's gotten to the point I do not know what to ask of Nintendo anymore when it comes to this series. I have not liked any game since Skyward Sword and it's been nonstop disappointment for me.

>>739591054
you didn't like ALBW?

>>739591104
You know it schizo

damn manchildren really can do nothing but bitching all days can they ?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF-7jPXvPEA

>>739587890
I was thinking, what about if you built an open world Zelda like BotW, but you removed the ability to climb for most of the game, and the game funneled you through valleys so you could only see those amazing landscapes from a vantage point, up until the beginning of the second act, where now you can climb but your stamina is literally one node, and shrines now only give stamina, with hearts earned in sidequests and found in special hard to reach areas like in previous zeldas? There'd be ladders you could climb to raise elevation, but you couldn't do anything that requires stamina (running would be it's own separate meter).
No glider or physics manipulation either, otherwise you could easily figure a way to ignore your ability to climb.

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>>739589653
>I've been playing games as long as I remember and I only heard of Zelda a few years ago
Lying ass.

>never really loved a zelda after they went 3d, link to the past and awakening are favorites from back in the day
>last console I owned was the original wii, last zelda played was like 25% of skyward sword
>finally got around to emulating BOTW a year or two ago, heard it's actually good and not just "10/10 because zelda"
>dumped into huge mostly empty field
>run around and beat up a few moblins
>okay i'll come back to this later
>never do

>>739591239
idk I actually think the climbing and gliding is what keeps the open world fun. I think open world is mostly shit but I will say BOTW made it fun to actually traverse the map which is good. I think the real problem with those mechanics is that they break traditional level design because they make it too easy to bypass any sort of navigational barrier. a classic Zelda dungeon doesn't work when you can just climb around any obstacle. people day they want the open world of Breath but with classic dungeons in it, but the truth is you can't really have both without sacrificing an aspect of one of them. you either scale back the freedom that makes the open world fun, or you have to try and design dungeons knowing the player will be able to bypass half the mechanics.

>>739588679
There's been a bigger time gap for Smash Bros. and rosterfags still don't shut the fuck up.

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>>739589163
Been a long time since I played ocarina, is there actually any choice in the order to do things in? I remember the world being somewhat open (at points), but I don't remember much choice in where to go

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>>739587890
The physics and lack of required talking / handholding was really great. You can still make a game be linear and feel like a discovery if games just didn't instruct you all the time. BotW did a good job of that. They only need unlockable items again and get rid of all the copy/paste shit. Make a smaller map if you have to.

>>739588679
Goth girls are such a meme and it makes me irrationally angry. Their entire shtick is "look at me I'm different and you bet I'm crazy in bed wink wink" but they're not even different. Talk to one and they're the same as all women, disappointingly so, it's all just pretense and appearance. And they're not even freaky in bed, none of them give a shit about femdom, it's just usual women bullshit of expecting the man to do all the work and be super dominant. Like who cares it's boring, slap me around a little, you're supposed to be le freaky and quirky. Also it's false advertising because half of them aren't even goths and can't name more than two goth bands and just listen to party metal

>>739587890
>get wind waker and skyward sword
Yeah, no thanks.

>>739591148
It was just dejavu for me, I already played ALttP. The dungeons of ALBW were fine but that game didn't grab me like I did everyone else.

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>>739587890
I picked it up and had fun for 10 minutes shield surfing down hills
I wouldn't pay 60 muttshekels for shield surfing though

>>739587890
i've never played linear zelda, but just watching some gameplay, i can tell they're indeed better than open world zelda games
i only played botw and it was incredibly boring
the first few hours were fun, but the rest of the stuff was repetitive and just tedious
i didn't enjoy "exploring" the world because there was hardly anything to explore
every single corner of the game's map has the same fucking shit in it: either an enemy camp or a shrine or a korok
it's insane to me that botw and totk fags are still gaslighting everyone and themselves these are good games
i'd rather play a linear traditional zelda with infinitely better progression than this open world ubislop overrated trash

>>739587890
All of Nintendo's detractors on /v/ are porn spammers.

>>739591939
>is there actually any choice in the order to do things in?
Not really. People pretend you can but you have to basically get the dungeon item (i.e. beat half the dungeon), then warp out and do the other dungeon. It's retarded. I think the only one that is interchangeable is spirit and shadow temples which are the last ones.

>>739591807
>knowing the player will be able to bypass half the mechanics
As many devs will say, players will try to optimize fun out of a game, if they can. I'm one of them, I ignored most of the puzzles in Echoes of Wisdom because I had the water block, and later the spinning tile.

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>>739587890
Is this the thread?

What I want out of the next Zelda game
>No dungeons
>the game world is a massive dungeon
>completely about exploration
>limit the options the player has to force players to use their tools
>varied content all over the game world

>>739591239
lizard climbing, gliding and teleporting 100% ruined the fun of exploring the open world ngl
it should be realistic wall climbing, as in grabbing ledges, ladders, etc instead of magically having the ability to climb on walls like a lizard
gliding should be removed entirely
teleporting should only work when you are at a teleport location
it's just that easy to fix open world navigation

>>739591939
You can do Forest, Fire, and Water in any order and potentially Spirit too maybe. Shadow is the only temple that has a hard requirement.

>>739591054
I have super high hopes for the next game. The leaks were very promising, dynamic fluid physics and placeable portals between worlds. My theory is that they will revisit concepts from prior games and use new technology to execute them, much like they did with Tears of the Kingdom.

i.e. thawing Zora's Domain and refilling Lake Hylia

>>739587890
nope
you'll take your ubislop with garry's mod stapled onto the side of it and you'll LIKE it

>>739590906
They are exactly the same actually.
>I found the boomerang in a hole in the ground BOO YEAH

The first Zelda is open world, Link to the past is open world, minish cap is open world, Ocarina of time is open world, majora mask is open world, a link between world is open world, wind waker is open world, skyward sword is open world.

Zelda has always thrive to be open world as much as possible with the restriction it have. BotW is just the result of that ambition.

>>739587890
Zelda has always been open world tho

>>739590794
>nah that would fuck up the pacing.
It would drastically improve the pacing
>game begins
>Mido says he wants to see a sword and shield
>explore Lost Woods and craft them to learn about central mechanic
>Deku Tree relays some story and sends you off
>explore Hyrule Field and infiltrate the castle
>Zelda relays story and sends you off
>Impa points to the three or four dungeon locations and says get cracking
At no point is the pacing worse than the original.

>>739592504
I remember those "leaks"
It sounds like you play as Link in one dimension and Zelda in another, and whatever you do in one dimension affects the other's world. Aonuma already gave it away when he said "imagine the next game while you play Age of Imprisonment"

>>739590896
Zelda is about making the choice between potion and heart container, guessing the wrong cave and losing money, and finding a better sword in the graveyard.

>>739591239
This but instead of climbing anything, you get a ladder you can deploy, ect.

>>739587890
Go back? Zelda 1 is the original game and it was non-linear. Respect tradition and stop trying to make the series be something it isn't.

>>739592021
Basically my dream Zelda is a smaller sandbox with more intentional and dynamic design constraints. A game that requires replaying it to experience everything.

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>>739592238
Oot would be a lot better if they removed the hub world Hyrule Field from the game.

>>739592861
you never played Zelda 1 zoomer your larp doesn't fool anyone.

>>739587890
What's with the obsession over open world games crammed with filler content this decade? Most of the content isn't even good.

>>739592409
That sounds like a lot of fun, anon. Just make a new game world rather than reuse a preexisting one and I would be down.

>>739592651
>craft them to learn about central mechanic
lmao ok, you're trolling. almost had me, ngl

>>739592637
>minish cap is open world
that shit is locked down tighter than Zelda's butthole

>>739592921
The only times you even interact with Hyrule Field is going from the start of the game to Hyrule and then right next door to Kak and finally to Gerudo Valley. I'll never understand the bitching and moaning over it because they game gives you so many fast travel options that you almost never spend 5 mins maximum in it the entire game.

>>739587890
You fuckers were complaining that Zelda had gotten stale, so they changed it up with BOTW, and then you complained it was not the same game as you hated before.

>>739592702
>Aonuma already gave it away when he said "imagine the next game while you play Age of Imprisonment"
I don't think so. In Totk there's a part where you defend a town from gibdo and you deploy gerudo soldiers to fight and defend entrances. I think that's the kind of thing he's referring to. I imagine enemy forces that are dynamically making tactical choices in a simulated world.

>>739592943
>Can do dungeon 1 - 4 in any order
>BUT WHAT ABOUT DUNGEON 5
>try: what about dungeon 6 - 8

>>739592956
What's with the obsession of Oot when the only side content is 100 gold skulltulas.

>>739592993
I am being serious, the fact you think it's a joke is telling. Zonai Fuse is an incredible mechanic, and the evolution of it could be Crafts. Playing an instrument, like an Ocarina, is a Craft. Sorry you're so narrow minded and shit, good luck with that.

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>>739593013
>The only times you even interact with Hyrule Field
bad sign to phrase it that way, best to remove it, connect the areas up together, and we can wind up with something a lot more engaging

>>739593296
>>739593013
>>739592921
retarded take
it was there to show off the day/night cycle which was cool and immersive as FUCK back then

>>739587890
no

>>739593510
>back then
Fix it.

>>739593593
it's not broken like the other guy said you spend like 5 minutes there

>>739593510
It was there to show off horse riding. Do your own research before you call anybody a retard, retard.

>>739593654
It would be a better game without it, so fix it.

>>739593847
you ride the horse more elsewhere dumbass

>>739593880
kys

>>739587890
Sorry buddy, the Autism Playground model just funded Miyamotos 14th yacht, buckle up.

>this problem is only a problem for a few minutes
So fix it.

>>739588229
if they make money they will keep making them

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>>739593914
>you ride the horse more elsewhere dumbass
Hyrule Field originally had wild horses that you could ride and it was full of fences to jump. Again, do your own research before making a retarded post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7loergf9Sk

>>739587890
You'd think Zelda being open world would make the quest design better but it did the opposite.

>>739594235
>the game doesn't have this but you should have known about it because....
autism

>>739589653
I fucking refuse to believe you only JUST heard of zelda living in fucking america playing video games as even a passing hobby, youre full of dogshit good sir. Even the most non game playing retard has heard of zelda since the fucking 90s

>>739594297
Yes, if you're going to make up some bullshit claim about remembering that the field was meant to show off the day/night cycle (which it wasn't) because it's immersive as FUCK then you should at least have basic knowledge about why it actually exists in the first place since you know, were claiming that you knew. Next time just keep your mouth shut dumbass.

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>played oot again
>Hated it
>Played Zelda again
>Hated it
>Played link to the past again
>Hated it
>Played Zelda 2 again
>Loathed it from the deepest reaches of my heart
>Played links awakening for the first time
>Hate it
I don't think I like Zelda anymore. I still have to play twilight princess, Majora's mask and wind waker again to make sure. And when I started my Zelda marathon I was excited for ages and seasons but not so much anymore.

>>739594506
How the fuck do you loathe zelda 2? I mean I can understand it being different enough to not appreciate as a zelda game but goddamn man, are you fuckin okay? Have you tried the romhack that turns it into a full on sequel of itself?

>>739594240
It is better than the other games though, so I'm not sure what you mean.

>>739594506
The games are notoriously slow and tedious, you will find most other games to be more enjoyable really.

>>739594804
I don't remember any quest being interesting. I just remember being told to fetch things by NPCs or find some random location with treasure that isn't very good. No one is really memerable unless tied to the main story.

>>739594506
>become jaded piece of shit because you do nothing but shitpost to "fit in" on /v/
>this happens
lol

>>739594934
Weird, because I remember quests in Oot being that boring and uninteresting. Like putting the chickens in the coop.

>>739588679
>Why does a video game board talk about one of the most prominent video game franchises of all time

>>739595013
Well I prefer quests in Majora's Mask and Wind Waker far more than in OoT or BotW.

>>739594979
I'm better than you because I play games

>>739595013
Yeah, side quests in Zelda were never particularly good. Thankfully they had great main stories though. BOTW is just 1000 shitty side quests and none of the parts of Zelda that were actually good

>>739587890
Zelda is a dead franchise at this point. BoTW came out like 10 years ago and it was trash open world garbage. We've only had a gameboy remake, a shitty puzzle spin-off and a glorified DLC since. It's pathetic. Just end this franchise already.

>>739595112
In Wind Waker? you mean bringing NPCs a bunch of bird feathers or necklaces. I like far more engaging things provided in Breath of the Wild.

>>739595013
A couple in OoT are really mundane and only have the hope of having a worthwhile reward like a bottle.
Most tasks you're given by sidequests in BotW are around that mundane but the reward distribution is worse since so many things are completely generic and replaceable.

>>739593238
lol

>>739594506
I think that's depression anon

>>739595226
Botw story clears Oot.
Oot is just 20 shitty fetch quests lacking in what makes Botw good.

>>739593137
BOTW doesn't even have dungeons so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

>>739588679
This board is transsexual and brown

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>>739595247
Most Oot sidequests give you rupees and wallet capacity. Rumble pack sold separately mind you.

>>739595326
Botw has 125 dungeons before DLC. Not surprised you're confused when you miss the mark that hard, even after changing subjects.

>>739595356
Yep, that's how I remember it. Still think it's better on average than an explicitly designed "side quest" mechanic tends to make quests.

>>739592445
>You can do Forest, Fire, and Water in any order
The bow is required to do the water temple.

>>739595246
Yeah, it's still better than than bringing flowers and bugs to every other NPC in the game and doing a boring Labyrinth 3 fucking times.

>>739592445
I think you can do Death Mountain and Jabu Jabu interchangeably too, right? Possibly with minor sequence breaking.

>>739588679
sorry yeah we should go back to discussing crime stats and steam charts yeah

>>739595417
I will take my freeform exploration in Botw over those one note grottos any day.

>>739595402
Shrines aren't dungeons. They're like a tenth of a dungeon each tops, and the ones that are just a mini-guardian fight don't count.

>>739595402
Umm, honey. Those are Shrines. Not Dungeons.

>>739595436
What is that 3 sidequests out of a hundred? I dont get your labyrinth mention, is that about Phantom Hourglass?

>>739595449
Freeform exploration is pretty boring when you can get to most of the explorable world by holding up on the control stick for long enough. I tend to try and go faster but damn can you really feel that the game was designed to fall over and let a complete mouth breather get ANYWHERE.

>>739587890
botw was the only zelda game I forced myself to finish because the content was boring me so much. the side content is beyond tedious just like in ubislop

>>739595457
>Shrines aren't dungeons.
Yeah okay buddy. Added together they are more numerous and lengthy than previous games if you're into that.

>>739595508
you're proof /v/ doesn't play games

>>739595553
Totk one upped it.

>>739595613
I dont know why you are returning to labyrinths, but go off, sister.

>>739595430
Yeah, I guess it is with that one switch you need to shoot and then hookshot to. I forgot about that. If anything bow is the only requirement then.

>>739595667
Maybe look at the map. For all the shit they put in the open world a lot of it is extremely boring and even repetitive at times but you don't care as you only care about (you)s

>>739595618
yeah, in shittiness.

>>739595571
>there's a lot of them therefore they're good
No. I would take 8 well designed, atmospheric dungeons over 1000 shitty puzzle rooms with no theming or atmosphere, half of them being copy pasted. Quality over quantity.

>>739595774
Ok retard.
>>739596320
Best Zelda game
>>739596379
Disagree

>>739596630
Worst Zelda game.
Pure open world with such intensity that you have basic forms of all the items before you finish the tutorial is anti-Zelda.

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I like the open world Zeldas.
Wind Waker is pure soul.
BOTW was the best in the series.
TOTK is a lame mod, not a proper game.

>>739596804
Randomizer fixes Wind Waker

>>739596770
No bro it's just like Zelda NES bro, don't you remember when the guy in the first cave said "It's dangerous to go alone, take this!" and then handed you a sword, bombs, a bow, boomerang, raft, ring, stepladder, and power bracelet and then you got to explore the map looking for 1000 Korok poops? NES Zelda was the best man, you wouldn't get it. TOTK is just like it.

Nope.

>>739595441
Yeah if you take bombs out of Dodongo's Cavern to clear the path to Zora's Domain, you can do Jabu-Jabu first
There's no real point in doing it that way since, well, you're already in Dodongo's so you might as well finish it, but it's kinda neat that the game isn't as rigid about progression as future 3D Zeldas would become

>>739597023
>don't you remember when the guy in the first cave said "It's dangerous to go alone, take this!"
I really do
*sip*
Botw was a fucking masterpiece if we're being honest.

>>739597212
If you actually remembered it you'd know BotW is nothing like it.

>>739587890
There's a way to do open world Zelda right, but it ain't happening because Nintendo wants to sell games to the modern audience.

>yet another thread copying and pasting the status-quo standard-issue boiler-plate "opinion" that everyone else on /v/ has been regurgitating for years
Is groupthink just popular these days? We ALL agree that BOTW and TOTK are some of the worst games ever made. Next!

>>739597256
>being this ignorant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyMsF31NdNc?t=175

>>739587890
The first Zelda game ever, TotK, was open world.

>>739597501
Yes, I was aware of the demo they made and that it used sprites styled after Zelda 1 as visual shorthand for the design ideas they were exploring. It doesn't mean the final game's design bears any meaningful resemblance to Zelda 1.

>>739597501
>it was le inspired by Zelda 1!!!
I can doodle on a napkin and say it was inspired by Da Vinci, but that doesn't mean it has any actual resemblance.

>>739597603
Not about the demo, why so arrogant. Actually listen to the developers, become wise.
>>739597625
You too, home slice.

>>739597801
>Actually listen to the developers
Or I could just actually play the games and see that they bear almost no resemblance outside of some extremely surface level concepts. I know you've never played NES Zelda though.

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>bought BotW midnight release
>start game
>holy shit Link can jump and climb
>where are the 10 hours of boring intro cutscenes and tutorials?
>pick up fruit and sticks
>start beating up bokoblins
>fall off cliff and insta death
>is that a laser pointing at me- OH SHIT
>damn this game is brutal
>talk to old man and do the shrines
>these abilities are wack yo
>immediately head out to hyrule castle
>piss my pants when encountering more guardians
>spend literal hours just exploring the castle and dying
>this is so fucking cool
>get to main chamber
>literally all night grinding these boss patterns
>realize I'm under-equipped and explore castle some more
>it's like 6am already, gotta sleep but so excited to beat it
>next day I'm still grinding the boss rush
>beat the game
This was the last time I truly enjoyed video games like a child. It's a shame that playing more of the game outside of those 2 areas puts a damper on the experience. I pity the players who decided to be whimps and first collect poop seeds and do chores for 80 hours and then finally reached Hyrule castle jaded and overpowered. Sorry for your loss. It's like you played a totally different (worse) game and I experienced a masterclass in game design.

>>739597868
Actually listen to the developers, you nose blind faggot. You will never have the correct perspective and opinion on things because you do not fully comprehend all the angles.

>>739598067
I don't care what the developers say. I can call my turd a 5-star meal but if you put it in your mouth you're probably going to disagree. Their words don't supercede the actual played experience of the two games (which you've never had, because you've clearly never played NES Zelda)

>>739587890
>>739588229
>linear Zelda
No.

Fuck off you posers. Classic Zelda was never linear, that was always a post 2000 thing for the series, but now people are acting like all the pre Y2K games besides the first actually followed this 'formula' and weren't highly freeform with many ways to progress and explore.

>>739598067
You act as if devs can't be as horrible incompetent as they've shown us they are.

>>739589005
>Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Witcher, Final Fantasy,
All of those are more basic than Zelda and lack the kind of gameplay variety and design it has. Zelda is legitimately the most advanced thing the entire industry has to offer and there's nothing that works as a substitute for it.

>>739592238
>i've never played linear zelda
Good, don't even play linear Zelda, they all suck. Play open games like Ocarina of Time and the original LoZ instead.

>>739593914
>you ride the horse more elsewhere dumbass
Lol what are you even saying. The field is the main place you ride and you do so to explore it and find things like big poes. Why are you obsessed with removing something that was never a problem?

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They're gonna not only keep the open world, but they're gonna double its size and add even more layers to it.

-Space
-Sky
-Overworld
-Underground
-Depths

Genshin Impact looks so much better o_O. And we have new areas every single month. ENDLESS GAME. FOR FREE

CHINA >>>>> SHIAPAN

>>739598279
It's because they need to prop up the false assertion, which is that open world is somehow inherently non-linear.
If the older games are non-linear then they need to be open world, if they're not open world then they must be linear.
Breath of the Wild must somehow be intrinsically different from Skyward Sword even though the main difference between the two is that Skyward Sword tries to have more one-off (or rather three off) content, rather than leaning heavily on a content mill.

>>739590030
yeah, just like Mario never went back to 2D platforming after they made 64, right?

>thread critical of BOTW
>CTRL+F Eric
>0 results
Is he banned or did he die? Either way this is great for thread quality.

>>739600663
he's still alive.
he made a post earlier this thread and it got deleted.

See that mountain? You can go there. It has boko goblins camps in a different color

>>739600417
3D Mario stuck around though, 2D Mario came to exist in parallel. I can't see that happening with Zelda unless they start making top-down Zelda games again (I didn't play Echoes of Wisdom so I don't know how close it was to the classic formula but it looked pretty different).

Idk, I'd love for the old formula to return but I think open world is here to stay for awhile. At best I can see them half-assedly stuffing some dungeons into the open world, and maybe more remakes if the OOT remake does well.

The paradigm was set at "open world vs. linear" by all the people asserting that this was the difference between BotW and previous Zelda when BotW was new.
I don't think many people participating in the argument really think linear means LINEAR in this context. I'd like to think everyone operating in good faith knows by now that Aonuma blaming OoT for SS's flaws was him covering his ass and not an indication that some design paradigm began in OoT that went on to kill SS. I don't hate freedom in games, but I think there can easily be so much that it hurts something fundamental about the gameplay or design, and BotW definitely crosses the line.

>>739601784
100% but I think you're giving rabid Botw defenders a lot of benefit of the doubt to assume they have even played any previous Zelda games.

Although I'm also not convinced it was entirely SS's fault either because after SS they also made a pretty damn good non-linear Zelda game with ALBW. The rental system was flawed but overall it successfully broke the linear trending of the series while still being fundamentally a Zelda game, and was an appropriate response to the criticisms of SS. So they proved they could take a balanced approach and at the time it felt like it was a test for the future of the series, but then of course Botw came and disregarded that in favour of total sandbox. But the linear vs non linear debate didn't exist with ALBW. Nobody said it was un-Zeldalike for being non-linear.

I don't know but I almost get the feeling Aonuma just wasn't interested in making a Zelda game at all. Hence not just the huge pivot in game design, but also dropping the iconic tunic, making the Master Sword pretty much useless, not making any attempt to fit in the timeline which they spent so much effort setting up just a few years prior...When I play Botw I get the sense that the devs didn't really want to be making a Zelda game, but wouldn't have gotten the go-ahead to make such an ambitious game if it wasn't attached to a major franchise so they slapped some superficial Zelda elements on top and called it a day.
There are fundamental flaws with the game design too, like you mentioned it goes way too far in unrestricted freedom. But that's my guess as to why the game went in that direction.

>>739601784
BotW is not about freedom so much as it is about a lack of structure and content.
In a game emphasizing freedom you would be able to freely challenge the divine beasts or progress the story missions leading up to the divine beasts in a freeform manner, such as being able to infiltrate the Gerudo city however you want.
BotW only gives you freedom in how you approach a puzzle when it simply does not put any care into how you solve it, but the more work that needs to be put into setting up a challenge, the more it is clear that these challenges are still designed in a rigid and inflexible way.

>>739601548
>(I didn't play Echoes of Wisdom so I don't know how close it was to the classic formula but it looked pretty different).
It has a more traditional story structure, but the gameplay is blatantly Aonuma zelda, where you can easily skip large sections of puzzles just by using your abilities. I particularly remember a water temple where the intended path is to hit switches that cause a water basin to fill so you can float up to the next level, but you can just use a spider summon to climb to the top of the room in one go.
In terms of Zelda games i'd rate it as "more traditional than BotW, but less than Link Between Worlds".

>>739600663
He was in the OoT remake thread and got banned there.

>>739599012
>And we have new areas every single month
wow genshin gets a major patch every week now?!

>>739587890
>go back to linear zelda
>linear zelda
>go back
anon, Zelda was born as open world, it wasn't linear, and as a matter of facts there are less linear entries in the franchise than there are open world ones.
some are more streamlined than others as they limit the amount of places you can go to, so they might seem more linear, but they're still fairly open, especially once you're able to go to different places.
out of the 20+ games in the main series, you can count the actual linear ones on one hand, and you won't even need all your fingers, and most of these aren't even the good ones.

>>739587890
Why cant they mix open world zelda and linear zelda dungeons?

>>739595441
>>739597140
I think you can also buy bombchud so you don't have to go to Dodongo's Cavern first.

>>739588679
i have goth fatigue

>>739603671
thats called being gay

>>739588679
because he-who-shall-not-be-named keeps making daily shitpost threads about it

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>>739587890
good idea man

>>739603180
do NOT cross the streams

>>739603156
Open world, like, uhhh, breath of the wild

>>739602663
>Botw defenders
LMFAO, you are so far gone it's absurd.

>>739601784
>I don't think many people participating in the argument really think linear means LINEAR

>previous game was SKYWARD SWORD
>next game was BREATH OF THE WILD
Are you people zoomers who blew into town literally yesterday

>>739604170
>>739604195
I really don't understand how you can miss the point of those posts so hard. It has to be deliberate. Be serious, dude, nobody wants to argue in bad faith.

>>739603918
HOW WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO FIGURE THIS OUT!? unc games are such bullshit.

Daily seethe thread

>>739588679
>There hasn't been a new Zelda game for 3 years
2 years if you count Echoes of Wisdom, 9 years if you only count NEW mainline games

>>739604274
BREATH OF THE WILD DEFENDERS
just kys dude

>>739603156
Open world =/= non-linear
>>739603180
Because then you just get a sloppy open world and unfinished or cut dungeons like with Wind Waker.
The only people who push for open world are people who want more time on their doomed projects, because there's no real effort involved in making an open world anymore, it's just a heightmap.
>>739604195
Skyward Sword has a junction where you can pick from 3 linear story quests, doing random side quests for gratitude crystals and doing a separate town community storyline.
Breath of the Wild is a junction where you can pick from 4 linear story quests, doing random side quests for goddess orbs and doing a separate town community storyline.
These games are roughly equal in terms of their linearity.

>>739604375
>Majora's Mask isn't a NEW game, it's on the N64 just like the last one!

I liked Switch Zelda's parrying

>>739604449
TotK is literally just BotW with a physics system stapled on.
MM is a completely new game

>>739601784
What fucking nonsense, it's obvious the biggest flaws with Aonuma's led Zelda games are story gated progression, but it's not an actual flaw, it's just something people picked on because the entire franchise is really fucking silly story wise. The fact Botw did so unfathomably well practically ditching story is a testament that story in these games do not matter, locking them down to deliver story doesn't matter, and in the end you do not need Metroidvania elements to deliver a good game. You're just so god damn wrong from east to west. This shit makes me laugh myself retarded,
>Oot INVENTED A PARADIGM THAT SCREWED OVER SS
lmfao dude, what are you on, pass that shit over here so I can huff it.

>>739604443
>Skyward Sword has a junction where you can pick from 3 linear story quests
incredible!

>>739589163
Ocarina is "non-linear" the same way pokemon gen 1 is "non-linear".
You can do a few dungeons in a different order than intended, but that's about it. The actual dungeons themselves aside from maybe the forest temple are linear, and the open world has a few secrets, but is mostly just there as a backdrop to make the world feel more real as you walk from point A to point B.

If you want a non-linear zelda example, at least mention LTTP or something and you could have a bit more of an argument

>>739604494
MM is literally Oot with the NPC schedule stapled on though.

>>739604634
and a new map.

>>739604663
*reused maps
Skulltula houses and bottom of the well were developed during Oot's development.

>>739604607
>the dungeons themselves are linear
No fucking shit retard, that's the definition of a dungeon, contrasting from the open world around it

>>739604693
>1% of the world being reused
ah yes, thats totally comparable to 100% of the world being reused.

>>739604494
>stapled on
lol, that "stapled on" took more dev time than what BotW took from start to finish. It was a huge waste of effort for sure, but definitely not something they just "stapled on".

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>>739589005
I tried playing Zelda and I didn't like it

>>739604574
>>Oot INVENTED A PARADIGM THAT SCREWED OVER SS
that's not what he said at all, work on your reading comprehension.

>>739604432
*rabid Botw defenders specifically, and you are certainly living up to the rabid part.

I actually enjoyed Botw fwiw but I can't stand people who refuse to acknowledge how flawed it is

>>739604759
33% tops, and that's being generous because the surface has been changed considerably. If we were being honest, chalk in the reused character assets in Majora's Mask and we'd be discussing the same situation several generations apart.

>>739604916
It is flawed in the uhhh, the uhh, I JUST DONT LIKE WEAPONS AS AMMO OK. Get real, if we both hashed this out you probably wouldn't come up with a genuine flaw to save your god damned life.

>>739604867
>everyone operating in good faith
>knows Aonuma blaming Oot for SS's flaws
>blah blah blah
Where the fuck is the good faith, Aonuma doesn't hate Oot, it didn't invent a paradigm ruinous to SS, it's all fucking nonsense.

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>artstyle that wont age well
>huge stretches with nothing to do
>repetitive locations
>exploration rewards don't matter
>too much downtime between story bits
>combat is too easy and attacks too obvious
>bosses are pushovers
>grinding small bits all over the map instead of end game dungeon
Nintendo really abandoned what made Zelda Zelda with Wind Waker. Pic unrelated.

>>739605153
>Wind Waker. Pic unrelated.
kek

>>739587890
The original zelda is a doomed formula, nobody but manchildren who refuse to grow up want to play shoot the door with the big eye to proceed simulator, it's a thing of the past
Yes nuZelda is dogshit, but it exists for a reason

>>739605237
There is no game on the market that offers the puzzle-box dungeon design that the original 3D zelda games had.

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Replaying Twilight Princess again after 20 years, I'm 100% convinced Nintendo no longer has the talent nor creative capacity to create a linear Zelda game. Or at least what ever magic secret sauce they had cooking in their 90s era Zelda games is long gone and not repeatable.

It's so painfully obvious they tried to recapture the heart and sole of Ocarina of Time with Twilight Princess, but it only does so at a presentation layer and surface level. At its core, it just feels uninspired as everything just feels like a shallow imitation of OOT without a deeper level understanding what made OOT and other Zelda games from the 90s special. And it only got worse with Skyward Sword.

So what made the 90's Zelda games so much better? It's hard to point at any one particular aspect, but the biggest thing really comes down to dungeon items, dungeon design, and progression. Items used to be the biggest progression milestones. You get a new item, your kit of how you play the game changes significantly. Its like unlocking abilities, that progresses combat, traversal or exploration in a significant way. It was a huge moment of excitement when you find the dungeon item. It was the highlight of the game. And the dungeon itself were designed more like a playground for the items to solve various puzzles and challenges to introduce that item to the player.

What happened in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword? In TP, they started to lean too hard on "gimmick" dungeon items. These items barely did anything outside of being a glorified dungeon key and didn't really offer much progression. The items were designed with limited utility outside of the specific spot the game designer designated the item to be allowed to be used in. That's the Spinner, the Ball and Chain, the Dominion Rod, even the classic Boomerang and Hookshot got its utility nerfed to barely be usable outside of designated spots. As a result the dungeons feel like a slog as there's very little progression.

as long as they stop the first 10 hour railroading

I still don't understand how there's not a single Zelda-inspired game that actually gets it right and is more difficult than a toddler's plaything

>>739604818
Taking more time to do something doesn't imply that the labor was of any higher quality than something done in haste, sometimes work behaves like a gas and fills all available time allotted to it.
Every last element in the recent games is stapled on top of more staples.
>>739605237
The nuZelda formula exists because the Zelda team has deteriorated in terms of their ability to develop gameplay and structure.
They can manage to develop loose elements that are a 50/50 tossup between being neat idea and simulating the act of being an underpaid Japanese salaryman, but their ability to actually put them together into a compelling game in a reasonable timeframe does not exist. Tightly stringing them together like in Skyward Sword felt stifling, repetitive and ultimately still very disjointed, but just leaving things to fall where they fall gave us the newer games.
>>739605338
This. Navigating a mildly complex 3D space interspersed with decompressing combat and broken up with a story that serves to ground those 3D spaces in a sense of placeness remains generally appealing.

>>739596847
what settings should I try with it? I tried playing it again a few months ago and got really bored, but I've heard a lot of people say the randomiser is good

>>739605717
20 triforce shards to win the game, turn the game into a treasure sailing adventure. It's the Only way.

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played the TP PC port and I did enjoy myself more than BotW and TotK

Echoes of Wisdom was really good.

>>739587890
It's not gonna happen. They found the perfect slop formula that gets the normalfag dollars. Zelda is dead. Assassin's Creed: Hyrule will live on

>>739606113
I see, I'll give it a shot soon

>>739606243
>Assassin's Creed: Hyrule will live on
That sounds like it would be fun, when are they going to make that

>>739606151
And yet you never see threads about it. It's always just the same old same old.

>>739606347
People prefer complaining, rather than playing games.

>>739588679
Autistic tendies

>>739587890
Zelda games suck and I think anyone who likes Zelda is a retarded faggot. Simple as :)

>>739606326
Theyve already made it twice, dumbass

Open world is the classic formula. You guys never played Zelda 1 as a kid?

>>739606456
Wrong. Zelda 2 is the classic formula and everything since has been wrong

>>739606456
>Open world is the classic formula
[X]

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>>739587890
Zelda with linear sequence that you're allowed to break if you're clever enough is the best way to handle it. Keep the big open world, just but scale the difficulty in the linear sequence of events. If you have to go from Area A, to Area B to Area C, then A is easy, B is medium, and C is hard. After the player clears an area, then the cleared area is scaled up to the next most difficult part of the game. So once Area A is clear, its scaled up to medium. And once Area B is cleared then A and B are scaled up to hard.

Dungeon items aren't found in dungeons, but rather in portions of the world. Veteran players knos how Zelda is structured in such a way that there are sort of junior challenges leading up to the actual dungeon. It would be like that. The player goes through the junior challenge on the world map to earn the item that's required for the dungeon. And then the dungeons themselves are mega complexes that make heavy use of the dungeon item.

But get this...
After the player advances, they can return to older dungeons to unlock the deeper parts of them. The depths of a dungeon is even harder and requires a combination of various dungeon items to complete. So even the starting dungeons will still be of interest later in the game.

Now pat me on the back and call me brilliant.

>>739591239
>>739591807
Open worlds without fun traversal are absolutely pointless and encourage fast travel. If im stuck riding a horse from point A to point B just make it linear.

>>739606713
If you feel "stuck" on a horse, then maybe you don't actually like open world games. I mean, what kind of traversal would you accept that isn't just "and then I jumped over the world and reached my destination in 2 seconds.

>>739606456
The vast majority of people never played a prior Zelda game at all. Including you, this larp is see through, get new material.

>>739606753
good thing i dont play zelda for the open world aspect!

>>739587890
There never was a linear zelda. Zelda is full of optional quests you can do when you like that unlock throughoun the game. Literally like that fake genre"metroidvania" which is just zelda but with less towns and 2d with way less polish and more backtracking.

>>739606753
I don't know, nta but I found Botw's traversal pretty fun, and I'm not normally a fan of open world or even Botw in general. I really liked gliding and didn't think it was enough to trivialize exploration altogether. Shield surfing was really fun, some of the Sheilah abilities can be used for clever traversal like recall or ascend (I guess those were Totk). Of all the open world games I've played I think Botw/Totk were the most fun to move around and it's the only reason the games really worked for me at all.

>>739606818
Ever Zelda has traversal in some way or another though. It's inescapable. At least BotW put some effort into making it an aesthetic experience.

>>739606885
>traversal = open world
HOLY SHIT, I TOOK A STEP IN SUPER FUCKING MARIO. THAT MEANS ITS OPEN WORLD!

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>bro it's just like Zelda 1
Zelda 1 had 18 dungeons that the majority of your playtime would be spent in.

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>>739606773
Ok zoomer

>>739606882
That's what I was thinking. The game makes traversal very interactive. I think that some people just want to jump and run over the landscape for free, and not have to worry about stamina or stuff like that. But then they're not really interacting with the world.

>>739606903
Who in their ever loving mind would equate traversal in Zelda games to moving about in Mario games? Sound like you would.
The difference is that in Zelda will place an objective across the map, and then expect you to just travel there with no overt challenge, save for perhaps some stray mobs littered about the map to give the player an excuse to tap buttons. Whereas Mario levels are courses especially designed to challenge the player between point A and point B. Like beating the course is the objective in of itself. Where in Zelda, crossing the map is just the means to reach your actual objective.

>>739606753
Thats a ridiculous statement. Obviously initial exploration is going to be exciting but if you dont have something to spice up the travel through areas that youve already been to youre just going to fast travel. Something slower like RdR2 used random events and hunting. BotW had the climbing/gliding mechanic. TotK used improvised vehicles. I dont want the traversal to be instant i want it to be fun.

>>739607082
my point is that you cant just say "YOU TRAVERSE THE WORLD THAT MEANS ITS OPEN WORLD!"
the ideal 3d zelda formula is closer to a lite-metroidvania.
item progression is a mandatory part of the zelda formula and open world is contradictory to this.

>>739607138
The ideal Zelda formula is that you *could* enter a dungeon early if you had the knowledge and skill to do find your way inside. And then once inside, if you knew some really esoteric knowledge, you could even defeat the dungeon. But because you lack the knowledge and the skill to endure the high level enemies, you're repelled. Forced to give up and go elsewhere, finding an easier dungeon to handle.

Item progression can exist to an extent. But the problem is that often story progression is the REAL gate and key. You should be able to go into a dungeon, find the dungeon item, leave, and use it right away on another dungeon. You shouldn't have to trigger half a dozen story points in between dungeons.

>>739587890
yes fr

>play zelda 1
>can go literally anywhere on the map
>can enter almost every single dungeon whenever you want
zelda was never linear what the fuck are you talking about

Been replaying TotK and I'm limiting myself to not use fast travel (game forces you to fast travel in the tutorial so I won't count that) and never upgrading batteries.
I'm having way more fun than on my first playthrough. It's still a flawed game, but just by removing fast travel you have to think a lot more about your next move. Took me hours to get out of the depths and I ended up in the desert so I beat the shit out of Queen Gibdo while I was there and now I'm doing side quests around Gerudo Town.

Anyway I think the next Zelda can be open world, as long as they don't make it fast travel slop.

>>739607743
I think linear vs non linear or even open world vs not is the wrong way of looking at it. Botw's problem isn't that it's non-linear, it's just that it goes way too far in trying to give the player absolute freedom.
Zelda 1 has meaningful character progression, you don't get handed all your tools in the beginning of the game. It makes you work to acquire items that open up more of the game. Botw just hands you everything you'll ever use all at once, there's no progression except stat upgrades.
You can do the dungeons out of order, but there are still dungeons, which are linear in themselves, and are where you actually spend most of the game. Botw is like the inverse of that where you spend 90% in the overworld. I don't know how but somewhere "the overworld is non-linear" got twisted into "the whole game should be the overworld". I don't get how that jump was made.

>>739608558
I didn't ask.

>>739606368
Surrealist fan animations had more of an impact than the actual game itself.
>>739606456
Zelda 1 is not open world.
>>739606639
There is no meaningful difference between this and just not having a set order for dungeon sets.
You can't scale difficulty while maintaining the same expected complexity (can't build complexity if you don't know what abilities the player has) without just making enemies sponge more damage, which is boring.
You can't have a deeper dungeon every time while maintaining the dungeon's core idea and still expanding on it meaningfully either, this is more of a one-off.
>>739606753
>I mean, what kind of traversal would you accept that isn't just "and then I jumped over the world and reached my destination in 2 seconds.
Anything that is just fun to do. Even Mario 64 with its limited size realized that you can't just have the player walk everywhere, the game needs to teach you to traverse in a way that is recursively fun and made into an actual minigame in and of itself until you see an opportunity to just do a thing and simply do the thing.
Like it's weird that the game just has surfing and a kite, then just never has you just kitesurf up a mountain or something like that, gaining altitude is almost always just warping somewhere higher up, starting a fire for an updraft or using stasis I guess.
>>739608558
>I don't get how that jump was made.
A proof of concept for a game being seaworthy at all is sometimes a "vertical slice". Simply extending that vertical slice indefinitely gives you the open world in BotW.

>>739608586
I don't care.

>>739608786
>(can't build complexity if you don't know what abilities the player has)
Well good thing that they know what abilities the player has. Because the dungeon will still rely on specific dungeon items for the puzzles.
You have things backwards, my friend. Complexity should be the gates. Gates shouldn't be the complexity.

We live in a world where Outer Wilds exists. And people still think that knowledge gates don't work. Wild.

>>739587890
You're stuck in the open world phase of Nintendo for all their games now because it requires less talent and its faster/easier for larger teams.

>>739608832
Yet you replied, curious.

>>739608064
I think I'll try to do that too. I wanted to do a no-death run but apparently fairy revivals count as deaths in the Zelda Notes app, even if you load an earlier save, so fucking whatever. I just cleared the Floating Coliseum, so now I can butcher Gleeoks too.

>>739608786
Uh oh melty.

>>739587890
The last time they tried we had fucking Skyward Sword.
The problem of the Breath of the Wild fórmula is that they overdid it on TotK and kinda killed any interest I have on the open world philosophy exclusively.
A mix of both would be the best thing.

>>739609048
No, I don't care whether you asked or didn't ask. I'll reply to whoever the fuck I want, you have no power over me.

>>739609062
Oh and also another restriction: No hoverbikes, and no loaned contraptions. The hoverbike ruined all exploration for my on my first playthrough, it was practically a jetpack with how well it controlled and how efficient it was. If I make contraptions they must not be more complicated than that.

>>739608987
I think the problem is the dungeons would have to be built around only one item, so you can't make layering challenges that use multiple items, so the difficulty curve basically resets every dungeon, and it also runs the risk of making items feel useless when you leave the dungeon. I think it's possible to do, I mean it's basically what ALBW did, you just have to be careful.
I do like the idea of coming back to dungeons to explore deeper parts. Funnily enough Skyward Sword had a similar thing going, with only three areas in the game that you revisited as you got new items. Obviously it was very linear, to its detriment, but it had some neat ideas.

>>739609090
ALBW did it right. It was proof you could have non linearity without going full open world slop (not that we needed proof, the series gas always had elements of non linearity, TP and SS were really exceptions not the norm, and they didn't need to swing all the way in the other direction, it was an overcorrection)

>>739587890
Aonuma is mindbroken at this point
He tried making “classic” Zelda with Echoes of Wisdom, but his BOTW addiction is so powerful that he literally just made BOTW-lite
You’re never getting another real Zelda game again
Just hope for WW/TPHD (or at fucking least put GC TP on NSO)

>>739604607
>at least mention LTTP or something and you could have a bit more of an argument
It's always LttPfags who do this shit. I have to point it out over an over, but no, LttP is not more non-linear than OoT is (it only even starts being non-linear *after* its 5th dungeon), and they both have about the same number of alternate dungeon orders. But OoT also has a more consistently open world with more quests, secrets and collectables, minigames, NPCs etc.

>>739587890
We did. They called it Metroid Prime 4.

>>739609107
I clearly do because you keep replying.

>>739607743
So you can skip all of the dungeons and rush right to Ganon? HOw do you do that? And pray tell, how do you sequence break the dungeons and do them out of order, without collecting a single item? After all, according to BOTW defenders, Zelda 1 didn't have a single bit of item gating. The Evil OOT introduced that into the series, if I recall their arguments.

I don’t even know what gimmick they could do for a new Zelda at this point.
You’ve got
>land transit (walking, horses, trains, TOTK cars)
>water transit (WW/PH)
>sky transit (SS/TOTK)
>time control (OOT/MM/Ages)
>weather control (Seasons)
>parallel worlds (LTTP/ALBW/TP)
>transformations (MM/TP)
>crossover goofy slop (in a good way, LA/Hyrule Warriors)
>crafting/source engine physics (BOTW/TOTK/Echoes)
>size control (Minish)
>multiplayer (4 Swords)
Like what else is there that could feasibly be called a central gimmick

>>739609873
Kaiju battles, Botw 3 is on a time limit and you have to gather food to feed a Kaiju, which you control to fend off attacking Kaiju in the ocean to stop them from reaching the mainland

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>Every mainline Zelda game going forward will be open world slop.

>>739609952
Gluttonous nigger, I do not think this would be a good idea

>>739609223
>I think the problem is the dungeons would have to be built around only one item
Two things:
1. That wouldn't necessarily be impossible. It would just require a greater level of creativity on the developer's behalf. Games like The Talos Principal and The Witness were able to push concepts very far with only single tools.
2. They can still build dungeons that require multiple tools using my proposed structure. The player would just have to find all the tools required to solve the puzzle. The only difference, is that I propose that the items aren't found in the dungeons themselves. So if they find themselves trying a dungeon they're not prepared for, then they will hit a wall, and be forced to leave to go explore. Incentive to actually explore the world, because they know something good is out there worth finding.

Bonus 3. Metroid Zero Mission has taught us that sometimes you don't need the item you think you need. They very cleverly hid many shortcuts throughout the game, that allows the player to bypass gates without "required" items. Zero Mission is such a master class at this. Because it's not an accident, it's not about glitch abuse. It's about understanding the mechanics of the game on an advanced level + having the sense to snoop around for clues to find these alternative routes. So, if the designers are really-really clever, they can include some high level sequence breaks to make clearing dungeons without all items possible.

>>739610165
hope you’re proud of yourself for killing this thread by bringing up zero mission unprompted you dumb zoomer

>>739610165
1. They fully explore the applications of single tools, but Zelda isn't really about exploring the full applications of a single tool, and once you start introducing more tools you either need to dilute the tool or you need to have every tool be the kind of thing you could build a game around on its own which wastes time and budget.
2. This could easily devolve into dependency hell without rigorous planning and documentation, or it would necessarily be limited in its scope, both to make sure the game can be completed and to make sure that the game is actually fun to complete. If the player is pushed to leave to go explore, the game would need to guide the player somewhere where they actually can make progress without handholding. Randomizers (Not the same, but their order can be completely random and items are often far from their associated checks) often come with the acceptance of performing dozens of checks without progress or explicit guiderails to keep the player from going down pointless rabbitholes, and that's a kind of frustration and visible handholding that you typically don't want in an actual game.

Will Link ever wear the green tunic again?

>>739587890
No, the new formula is just too immersive.

>>739610952
>but Zelda isn't really about exploring the full applications of a single tool
And Zelda hasn't stumped me since I was 10 years old. But Talos Principal stumped me at 30. Maybe Zelda needs to be different. Did you know that 50 people are credited as gameplay designers for tears of the kingdom? Literally 50. If Nintendo is willing to put that many minds together to make the game work, then I think they can do a little better.

>This could easily devolve into dependency hell without rigorous planning and documentation
No it won't.

>If the player is pushed to leave to go explore, the game would need to guide the player somewhere where they actually can make progress without handholding.
That's what NPCs and questlines are for. They will be there to guide the players. The game just won't be *dependent* on story points for progression.

One of the best moments in totk for me, was accidentally stumbling upon Mineru's questline before the game clued me in on it. I just found a bunch of stuff in the depths that looked interesting, but I couldn't fully interact with. So I left and moved to the top side to look around, and found interesting landmarks, and explored that, and that triggered the sequence. I was being organically motivated by my own curiosity, and got a big reward for it. That's the kind of structure I want for the next game. Let the gameplay happen first, and then the story forms itself around the gameplay.
But if players still want to play linearly, then the structured quest and story is still there for them.

And the dungeons themselves are designed as if they are meant to be encountered linearly. With increasing complexity(and enemy difficulty!)

>>739611883
how is it immersive? Everything clashes with eachother. It's just not fun.

>>739603671
I have fatigue fatigue

>>739587890
Nah I prefer open world to linear any day