How can we design an MMO were the playerbase can't optimize the fun out of the game?
Fun is subjective. Players who optimize the games are also the ones who play the longest and spend the most money. The bottom image is objectively incorrect and if you ever played an MMO at the highest level you'd know those people are tight nit cliques filled with players who all know eachother. >how can we fix it There's nothing to fix. This is an issue that you personally have not the more popular mmos. If you want a real answer than the best choice is a system like gw2 where the upper limit of optimization is barely above casual play. The majority of players are doing open world/social content rather than raids, dungeons, pvp. Exception is WvW which is also extremely social content despite being 100v100v100 pvp There's discord calls 40+ people wide of them just bullshitting.
>>739618737Make it so optimization leads to a path of evil and turning your character into an NPC. Basically that's what these people want to write themselves into the lore. Anyone who so selfishly persues power in lore to such a degree for example the first player to reach max should be punished by having their character turn into the antithesis of what it's design is. If it's a cute girl elf the evil version should be a fat bastard. If it is some tough guy character it should be a gay race swapped twink who loves worms etc. keep doing this until there is a Parthenon of sweats a monument to their mistakes that are spoken of as role play lore to people who are just having fun
Hey! I'm gonna go to talk and meet new people when everyone paints and depicts me as evil as possible while every person can hear my thoughts and they rap, spit on me, film me with 9000 cameras, constantly remind that tomorrow I will be eternally humiliated, memorized for aeons and everyone has listened to my thoughts about every conceivable thing while they sing songs that how I'm a pig while flaying pig blood all over their stages and everyone just stays in complete silence waiting for the night so they can take every sick fantasy they ever had on me!I'll go meet new people!
>>739619016If what you're doing isnt embarrassing you should resist, but you lay down and die instead. Do not cry for him he is already dead and no one knew him anyone for he would never speak
>>739618737"endgame" should mean the game ends for that character. Then you start over anew.
>>739619096Did I forgot to mention that people write my thoughts down and they all want to immortalize me and my thoughts?
>>739618737Make the game more like runescape where it's mostly just a singleplayer game but with a shared world and economy. I think a lot of the issue with modern MMOs is that they're constantly trying to force social interactions which is tiring and makes everyone feel resentful, having self-imposed goals and incidental social interactions is enormously more compelling than having the game funnel you into spamming dungeons with random people who don't really want to be there.
Literally the same problem as ASSFAGGOTS where everyone just looks at end results and only talks to you to shit on you.
>>739619271Atleast in assfaggots you atleast have to be decent at the game to climb
PvP sandbox MMOs where the players are the content. Horizontal progression and barebones PvE that nobody cares about. Weekly balance patches that make players lose interest in figuring out the current meta.Albion Online and EVE Online are good examples of datamine-proof MMOs.
>>739618737What's BIS?
>>739619232That's most people's dream, that everybody else would care about what they think. You'll be the next Marx, the next Foucault.
>>739619016Video games?
>>739618737The games aren't designed for you, they're designed for people who have never had a real job. These people want to complete a list of repetitive menial tasks and be given employee of the month rewards. To them, optimization is the game and the socializing is measuring the length of your e-penis. If you've ever had a real job, you stay as far as you can away from this kind of behavior in your free time because you get enough of that bullshit at work. There's always that one tryhard who can stock grocery shelves faster than the next guy and wants recognition for it.I played WoW before BC. Back in those days, the fun of the game was exploring the world, meeting up with your RL friends in game, theorycrafting builds, grouping with randoms in the open world, emergent world pvp and co-op dungeons. Everything else was just a chore standing between you and the fun. Eventually the game got overrun by players who aren't like me, they want to be put in a hamster wheel and have a counter for how many times they've spun that wheel, then brag about their number for the rest of their natural lives. I quit the game after BC came out because I could see where it was headed. Now the game is cookie clicker with extra steps, that's the demographic it's meant to appeal to. People who want exploration, buildcrafting, dynamic pvp or dungeon crawling have moved to other games where you don't have to collect 100 bear asses between each fun part.
>>739620762Best In Slot
>>739621202Thanks anon
>>739618737Why would you want to hang out with people in may 2026? Everybody is unfunny and lame now, and that includes the people on here.
>>739618737>AI-slop stick figures
>>739621767I didn't notice until you pointed outJesus christ, this site is all jeet now
>>739621073A similar demographic to the MMO audience is the people who play job simulators. I've never understood the appeal. A job is something you have to do to buy food and shelter. I can only assume the people that play these games have never had to worry about providing their own food and shelter. If you don't do your job, there's the underlying persistent threat of being made homeless. That's the reason most people work, because if they don't they'll die. That's society. There are some people who blind themselves to this, take pride in their work, come home to their family and brag about how they filed 30 TPS reports today and the boss told them they did a great job, then there a people with their heads screwed on straight who see it for what it is, a chore. Something you have to do, not something you want to do. Most forms of consumer spending are a carrot on a stick and you either get the carrot or get the beaten by the stick.
Once you reach end game your character just dies and gets deletedLiterally the easiest fix imaginable
RuneScape without GE was one of the best things because it forced players to interact together.
>optimize the fun out of the game1. it's the dev's job to ensure the "optimal" way to play is fun2. who the fuck are you to dictate what is and is not "fun" ?fuck off casualbab
>>739618737i have no time to complain, i'm minmaxxing
having bing gpt or whatever else now imitate ms paint to make threads disgusts me on a level i cannot begin to describea plague upon your house op
>AI generated stick figure comic
>>739618737holy ai slop
>NO YOU CANNOT IMPROVE YOURSELF AND PLAY BETTER, THAT IS NOT FUN, YOU ARE LE OPTIMIZING THE FUN OUT OF LE GAME AND NOT HAVING FUN, STOP PLAYING THAT WAY, NOOOOOOOwhat causes this mental illness?
>>739624469The only people who cry about "sweaty minmaxers" are casual faggots who refuse to put any effort into the game and feel entitled to get carried through everything. Their shit gear and shit parses get them denied from pugs, and instead of thinking "hmm maybe I should play better", they instead blame someone else for their own failures.
>>739624670Eh I can see both sides. You can be good at an off meta class/spec you think is fun and get gatekept out of endgame content until you give in and switch because people want to kill the boss 5% faster
>>739624469Inferiority complexes. It's the same losers that call people sweaty for being better than them at a video game.
>>739618737>Modern /v/ newfag needs AI for stick figures instead of using fucking paintCan we shut down this shithole website already?
>>739624845There's plenty of guilds/groups that don't care and will take "off meta" stuff though. It's really only the sweats that will care about stacking raid compositions.But in some cases, "off meta" is so bad that you're pretty much dead weight and being carried by the rest of the raid. It's pretty rare outside of vanilla WoW, but in vanilla, the "meme specs" really ARE meme specs and there's a reason why nobody brings them to raids. They're just fucking terrible and bring nothing useful to the raid.
>>739619006>Fun is subjective.Motivation (fun) was solved in 1985. The height of intrinsic motivation is the height of fun.>Players who optimize the games are also the ones who play the longest and spend the most money.Almost everybody optimizes the game because leveling is dogwater. You can't play with very many people; 90% of zones are obsoleted; you only make a little bit of gold; and if you want to play another class, you have to do it all over again. Approximately nobody likes leveling. In WOTLK, 70% of trial players quit by level 10. Recently, 10% of level 10 characters made it to max. That's not counting lost players to a repetitive endgame. So,>There's nothing to fix.There obviously is. WoW should have esports by now. It should have a community. But few players are social, and the game isn't a living world.
>>739618737A Dynamic world with a GM behind the scene that can screw over players that can reliably optimize anything through subtle or world changes (especially with degradation mechanics)
>>739626502>optimization=leveling route Actual fucking retard this is not what people care about
>>739624469The problem is that a lot of these games are badly designed and do become less fun the better you are at them. People don't mind sweats if the game is fun even when you're good at it, like no one complains that shooters become unfun or boring when you rank up in them.
>>739618737MMOs are a relic of the past. What exists now isn't really a MMO, but a skinwalker.
>>739627421But that's where a huge percentage of players are lost.Also, do you M+ all day, every day? Why do you think endgame is compelling content?
>>739627764>But that's where a huge percentage of players are lost.Yeah for the same reason a lot of games have 50% completion rate of the first area in many games, it’s not an indication of game design issues it’s an indication the game didn’t click with someone for whatever reason.
There are no good MMORPGs anymore
>>739618737>I grew up and now retarded timesinks aren't fun anymore>how do we fix this?
>>739627902A 3% retention rate before even considering how repetitive endgame is is absolutely a design problem.
