Why did Tactical RPGs die?
Agata sexo.
>>739649385Personally? I think I fried my brain. I can't tolerate half the shit I used to love anymore.
The newest one I've played was P5T and it was pretty easy. Maybe I should have turned up the difficulty.
>>739649385Mewgenics came out just 3 months ago
>>739649385No gameplay. Just spreadsheet autism.
>>739649385they are either too easy or too hard, also they are slow and this isn't some attention span shit they can be painfully slow whenever the enwmy or your units have to move and attack making it tedious
>>739649385FFT series killed its own setting for no reason and then no one bought any other games in the genre.
>>739649385It was never alive outside of Fire Emblem.
>>739649385They all became dating sims, which bored tactical RPG fans and dating sim fans.
>>739649385jrpg players hate gameplay
>>739649385Because they almost all stop being tactical rpg's and become puzzle games. Where you must figure out the one correct unit to move, where to move it, and what action it has to take, now with save scumming the action because it can RNG fail on you. Or you lose. They very quickly become antifun and playerhating. usually combined with cheating enemy ai ignoring game rules the player is constrained by.
>>739650780man who has only seen the boss baby...
>>739649385I'm still fucking mad that SoC is a gacha game. Actually fucking depressing. It had so many positive aspects, and I liked so many of the units and characters, but it's ultimately unplayable for me because of how quickly gacha systems wear me down and turn me off of playing a game entirely. FUCK
>>739649385I'm sure you'll shit on it. But Fortune's Weave is unironically one of my most anticipated games.
>>739649385Squeenix refuses to just throw money at Matsuno.
>always wanted a tactics MMORPG>the only one I know is Wakfu and it's very shallow and lacking
>>739651180Dofus is just Wakfu but good
>>739651371in what way? it looks worse to me
>>739651694It's not a clusterfuck of broken systems and classes that need to be reworked every year because the devs have 0 clue what they're doing, for one.
Hardware got better and there was no need for turn-based anymore.
>>739651006your loss
>>739652259Being robbed of a potentially great tactics game because of unpalatable gacha nonsense is a loss for more than just me.
>>739649385Because everyone pretends massive grindfests like FFT are god tier when levels crafted to challenge your team like Vandal Hearts are better. Not to mention maps that are actually cool like on a train with detaching cars
>>739649768kys you braindead coomer
BECAUSE I WANT TO PLAY A VIDEO GAME NIGGA I DON'T WANT TO PLAY MATH
I'm currently waiting for Troubleshooters 2 though?
>>739650874This anon hit the nail on the head. SRPGs have a much more skewed gameplay to story ratio since maps take an hour to complete vs JRPGs that have a more constant flow between 2 minute long battles and cutscenes. Normie cattle can't handle being in gameplay mode for that long, especially in a genre that requires thinking and not action.
>>739652317I enjoy it just fine
>>739649385eastern ones were never mainstream not even Fire emblems, western ones are extremly subpar on average and rely on you missing your attacks to make them difficult so they are kinda anti fun
>>739652574>incapable of comprehending views outside his own Congrats on your autism
>>739652610that's pretty typical for gachaniggers desu
>>739652648kek
>>739650478So every combat-focused RPG right? You hate 'em? You prefer hack n slash and dodge rolls?
>>739652610>incapable of comprehending views outside his ownCongrats on your autism
>>739649385They didn't, they're just all on phones now.
>lean too heavily into RPG elementspeople just grind stats on characters to faceroll the enemy and get bored of how long it takes to complete a mission.>lean too heavily into strategy elementsjarpig players get filtered by the gameplay
>>739652765Latter is better, let the jarpigs get filtered. They can go play jarpigs.
>>739649385The same reason why any game that requires thought did. Gamers got stupider, with hand holding tools etc. Which have been stockholmed sydrome'd to "QoL".
>>739650478This. These games are for fat neckbeards who don't actually like playing video games.
They didn't die, shit like FE is very much alive for better or worse, Triangle Strategy's corpse is still fresh, Kaga still releases his little indie stuff, hell we even have a new Brigandine game coming out soon.The thing is you're the OP on /v/ so you're not only a gigantic faggot but you don't play vidya either
>>739652840Literally Dark Souls fans.
>>739652419>vandal hearts Never heard of it did it have mages that could summon meteors from the sky?Or ninjas?
>>739652872>The thing is you're the OP on /v/ so you're not only a gigantic faggot but you don't play vidya eitherBait OPs are the only way to get a thread going on /v/ plz understand
>>739652840>fat neckbeards who don't actually like playing video games.what does /v/ have to do with this?
>>739653006Honestly agree for some reason it's hard to start a discussion without inciting anger here
>>739652470Agata's classy, though. Not coomer-slop.
>>739649385too niche which is a shame because they are better than other turn based RPGs
>>739649768ok taste
>>739653180>nicheDidn't this vaulted RPG just get remastered last year?
>>739649385I've been thinking about trying switch tactics
>>739649385Is that some jap shit? CRPGs suffer from the same thing but I like them because they have more engaging classes, story and roleplay than the ARPG games if you’re willing to immerse yourself in the world and use your imagination, but most zoomers can’t even read a book without having an existential crisis so they play their roll slop instead.
>>739649385Because they're REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLY fucking slow. Nobody likes manually moving units around, it's a chore. Why do you think people like turn based JRPGs? You just sift through menus at mach 7 and battles are done in minutes if not seconds.
>>739649385Its a niche genre.
>>739650874>>739652563>JRPGs are nothing but cutscenesAlways love to see JRPG criticism from retarded zoomers that have never played a JRPG in their lives.
>>739653450How well did Ivalice Chronicles even sell?
>>739653723Not what I said you retard.
>>739653761Sold fine for how cheap it probably was to make.
>>739653723JRPGs are nothing but cutscenesits that and text boxes, there is no gameplay.
>>739649385Because the RPG parts completely negated the tactical parts and strategic aspects. These games are braindead, designed for the lowest common denominator to beat and never get stuck at even with self-imposed challenges. There is not a single strategy or tactical game that benefits, in any way or form, by including RPG mechanics even as simple as experience points or stat allocation through gear.Tactics and strategies can only be devised against actual thinking people, anything else is akin to solving a puzzle and these games are inane, easy puzzles to figure out.
>>739653948play jagged alliance idiot
>>739653816You said they don't care about gameplay(assuming you're teh 1st anon cause your post was slightly less retarded than this moron>>739653927) which is not the case when JRPGs are generally like 90%+ gameplay. FFT is literally more cutscene than any actual mainline FF game released around it's time but you're a tourist so you've naturally never played them.>>739653927Retard
What is the difference between tactics and strategy?
>>739654014Nothing, 2 names for the same genre.
>>739654009The point of my post was that JRPGs are more palatable to people because the game is constantly switching up what you're doing. You do a few quick battles, then some exploration, then more battles, then trigger a cutscene. The cycle repeats and it keeps players engaged. By comparison, battles in SRPGs are 30 minutes to 1 hour of just nonstop gameplay before you get a break to watch a cutscene and I think a lot of people can't handle that, they get bored. Not once did I say anything about JRPGs being all cutscenes.
Considering how reviled the level cap was in Tactics Ogre Reborn I don't think many people actually like this style of SRPG they just want to grind and make overpowered builds and one shot everything in the game.
>>739654014theyre interchangeable but imo tactics are map oriented and strategy is setup oriented.
>>739654338The problem with the level cap in Reborn was that Square bloated the boss hp. So, unless you mod it out, a lot of the missions become tard wrangling a bubunch of murder hobos to complete an assassination.
>>739654338It's FFTfags who want every SRPG to be a grindfest where they make busted classes.
>>739654009Not an argument, jrpgs do not have gameplay.
>>739654228Notice how you change the language now after getting called out.>JRPGs that have a more constant flow between 2 minute long battles and cutscenesTo now it's>You do a few quick battles, then some exploration, then more battles, then trigger a cutscene. The cycle repeats and it keeps players engaged.If you just kept the hyperbole and retarded vitriol to a minimum you wouldn't get called out on it dumbass. >>739654338Because SRPG fans and JRPG fans are fundamentally the exact same group of people.
>>739649385They didn't, Tactics Ogre Reborn did pretty well.Also, Square Enix keeps putting out those 2DHD games, which while I hate the style, are still Tactical RPGs that keep people interested in the genre.
>>739649385there's like a dozen indie tactical rpgs coming out every month
>>739654724They've only made 1 single HD2D SRPG being Triangle Strategy.
>>739654338They didn't really tweak any of the missions around the new level caps or how damage resistance works, there's a stretch in the middle of the game where the difficulty is fucked cause the enemy side is running around with a bunch of higher tier dragons and shit you can hardly scratch so you just have to beeline the bossIt evens out in the last chapter/postgame but they didn't test fucking any of the changes they made to the TO remake at all and it shows
FFT > TO
>>739654669Are you just here to argue for arguing's sake, you fucktard? I made myself clear that I'm not even taking the stance you're so offended by.
>>739649385Do you consider Fire Emblem an SRPG? If so, then the genre isn't dead. There's a major title on the way.
- too slow- too much controller input to perform a single action- shallow mechanics
>>739654993You made yourself clear after I called you out for being a seething retard. I shouldn't need to. Don't do it in the first place.
>>739649385turns take fucking forever (move->move animation->menu to select skill->animation plays->select facing position after turn ends. repeat for the 12 or so units on the battlefield, though the computer does things faster)>menuing is hell (party size is often larger than 4. equip each unit, pick classes and skills for each unit, deploy unit on the battlefield)>casual unfriendly (what do you mean my units die forever if they lose all their HP? what do you mean that attack deals triple damage due to terrain and type bonuses?)>asset-intensive regular JRPGs get away with 1 background per zone. SRPGs require one map per screen and/or story encounter (more if you have events like a room collapsing or a bridge exploding)>nightmare to balance. need to factor terrain into gameplay calculations, story and locations also strongly condition what kinds of terrain you can use (e.g. volcano, frozen lake with thin ice, jungle with mud swamps, some weird clockwork dimension with moving platforms), skills need both area of effect ranges (radius and height), additional stats like move and jumping distance, terrain restricting movement, etc.they're more expensive, harder, and less popular, so there's little point to develop one over a regular JRPG
>>739654857aren't you forgetting something anon
Did anyone buy the Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster that came out last year? Either I somehow completely missed it or I memory-holed it.
>>739655356That's Vanillaware. I'm not giving any credit to SE for that.
>>739655356That's not Square Enix, that's Vanillaware, published by Atlus.
>>739649385zoomers have low iq
>>739655316Do SRPGs not have options to speed up animations and shit?
>>739655032>mogs your gay little jap genreSorry japs, The West won at tactical "s" rpgs. Move on.
Last game I played was Dark Deity 2 and it's kinda suck
>>739655495More recent ones do add QOL improvements that make the a lot more manageable.
I love FFT. I have TO:R sitting on my tv stand. What should I know other than the balance is fucked in the mid-game?
My dream tactics RPG would be/include:>Real Time With Pause (turn-based is cool, too)>Build autism on the level of Tactics Ogre One Vision Mod or a Diablo-clone like Grim Dawn>Decent character customization. E.g: could change sprite hair, hair in 3D, etc.
>>739655895>Real Time With Pause (turn-based is cool, too)>Build autism on the level of Tactics Ogre One Vision Mod or a Diablo-clone like Grim DawnHave you tried Troubleshooters? Its whole appeal is build autism.
>>739655809>Devs used to do FE romhacks before doing Dark Deity>Still suck at understanding what makes FE games funlol. Don't quit your day jobs romhacker fags
>>739654857Unicorn Overlord isn't HD2D and it isn't Square, anon. It's Vanillaware doing Ogre Battle with prettier food porn. Great game but completely different bucket.
>>739656039It's on my backlog.
>>739653927Not every jrpg is persona
>Tactics game lets you strip, surround and gangbang an enemy to death.
>>739655774Yep. Any western strategy rpglite game wipes the floor with the top japanese """"tactical games"""""".Especially since SRPGs are made for children.
>>739653761I think it sold 2 mil? It's probably decent numbers since half of it was straight copied from the IOS version, and the other half was AI upscaled/stolen from modders.
>>739654338It's fine for a first playthrough. Only gets super gay when you get into World shit and equipment gets hit with nerfs too.>>739654478>>739654868Major skill issue. If anything enemies die too quickly if you know what you're doing.
>>739656085Worst part is it's so close to be decent
>>739656085It checks out, most FE romhacks are dogshit and made by people who think they know more than they actually do on what makes a good game. Also so much tranny shit in the romhacking scene.
>>739649385White coded. Yes that's a thing.
>>739654014>Military tactics encompasses the art of organizing and employing fighting forces on or near the battlefield. They involve the application of four battlefield functions which are closely related – kinetic or firepower, mobility, protection or security, and shock action. Tactics are a separate function from command and control and logistics.>Military strategy is a set of ideas implemented by military organizations to pursue desired strategic goals.[1] Derived from the Greek word strategos, the term strategy, when first used during the 18th century,[2] was seen in its narrow sense as the "art of the general",[3] or "the art of arrangement" of troops.[4] and deals with the planning and conduct of campaignsBasically games like total war or GSGs are pretty much the only games that actually use strategy in it's military meaning. Virtually every other game is tactics in one form or another.
Bravely Default is my favorite Final Fantasy. :D
>>739655356>Auto-battler for gachanigger audiencePlease, fuck off.
>>739657284You haven't played it
>>739649385They never really incorporated mechanics that could have made them far more interesting; archery distance calculation and extra damage if you have the high ground, interactable environments (use fire near a field or tree and it catches fire, for example), fog of war and tactics/spells based around it, larger maps with alternate objectives that branch into different story paths and maps, etc.Some games have some of these elements, but most are just very linear, grindy, and easy. That's the hardest part about making a good SRPG, balancing difficulty so it's not tedious but also challenging.
>>739657379It's hardly a strategy or tactics game.
I love Triangle Strategy
>>739650478>>739652840really wish I could call you the gamer word without getting v&all trpgs are beatable without minmaxing, sure maybe some thought is required, but the only reason you would minmax is because you want tohow do you get mad at video games you haven't even played?
fft is so good, I'm just thankful we have that.
>>739657793
>>739649385PLEASE PLAY REVERSE COLLAPSE CODENAME BAKERY
>>739657793>>739657847I passed on it recently in favor of replaying Tactics Ogre Reborn.
>>739657880I didI didnt like it sry
>>739657914
>>739657284It's an autobattler for sure, but I don't think gachaniggers can afford it. Waifufags love it tho.>>739657379It's Ogre Battle with customizable AI. Ogre Battle is an autobattler.>>739657754I guess if you consider autobattlers aren't strategic, yeah. I think there are some strats/tacts involved in those games
>>739649385Finished Our Adventurer's Guild recently. Replaying on Hard mode. For now my ranking for FFT inspired indies:1. Horizon's gate2. Our Adventure's Guild3. Fell Seal
>>739657969The issue this game has no strategy specifically.
>>739649385lack of evolution
How do we feel about hex-based battle grids?
What gameplay or any kind of pitfalls should I avoid if I'm thinking of making a tactical rpg?
Casual players can't really have fun with the game because there is no real gameplay on easy difficulties. Experienced players can't have fun with the game even on the highest difficulties unless they place ridiculous restrictions on themselves because they know how to exploit these types of games to their core.
>>739658389Play reverse collapse. it's the ONLY SRPG I've played with real challenge with a huge sense of AGAINST ALL ODDS every single stage.
>>739658360Avoid at all costs levels/grinding playing heavily in the player's favor. People will just grind stats instead of engaging with mechanics and stat check everything. Imo Troubleshooters does this well by having levels give very little in terms of raw stats with leveling instead increasing your character's build limit.
>>739658445gachaslop
>>739658360direction mechanics.
>>739658360Don't make it too complex. The battle should be approached like a puzzle. Let people build their characters, but all enemy units should have well defined parameters and behavior that can be known at a glance.
>>739658360Slow animations and weirdly annoying menus to navigate. Give options to speed up animations and to turn them off. Anything after that is free reign. The worst thing you can do for any RPG, tactical or otherwise, is for it to be slow as shit.
>>739658445cont. >>739658504i mean it still looks like a gachaslop even though it's not. numberslop as well
>>739658504>>739658542not gacha
>>739649385Only Fire Emblem could make the games play and flow well. This genre should be my jam but the designs are just off, obtuse complexity in the wrong places with little actual meaning etc. I'm not autistic enough to become a patient scholar for any single game.
gamers always complain but refuse to try out new things>>739658542>>739658606
>>739649385>133 replies>zero mentions of MENACE or BB
>>7396583601. Numbers should start from 20s. Don't inflate it too high as levels progress.2. Enemy variety should be one of the biggest priority. It's no use to have complex mechanics and cool tools without anything to use it on.3. More options rather than increasing numbers.4. Make permadeath a core focus, but also make it toggleable. However it should be a primary option. Design gameplay events around it.
>>739658360>>739658538this but also if you add fast forward please for the love of god do NOT make it fuck with the music or play a sound
>>739649385If anything they have more representation than ever at this moment, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm currently playing through Disgaea 7. I'm trying to get over Mewgenics but that game gets me so mad sometimes. I hate that I can spend an hour sleeping at the wheel and then one encounter just stunlocks and murders my entire team because it's just a perfect counter to the random everything I've been given. If I ever see Ed in real life it's on-sight and I'm sure he won't appreciate how unfair it will be
>>739658646if you want to be taken seriously argue objectively like a SRPG player. You just sound like a gachatard right now.Your posted webm shows a "just get bigger numbers" instead of actual strategy
>>739658713>Your posted webm shows a "just get bigger numbers" instead of actual strategyNTA but RC tactical mogs the majority of SRPGs on the market and isn't get big numbers at all lol.
>>739658758I mean you didn't say anything at all and just say it "mogs". That sounds like the typical thing gachafags say to avoid discussion.Proof is in the pudding since they didn't actually explain anything and just shows a webm with big numbers.
>>739650416Into the Beach isn't a tactical RPG and neither is it's sequel Mewgenics
>>739658945Unironically its because how you play RC is really fucking complicated because you have 10 something skills on each character + a dozen and change consumable items. It doesn't operate on the 2 AP system and is instead a stamina like system with each action consuming different amounts. So the gameplay is figuring out how to maximize the shit your characters can do with however many permutations of choices you can do in a turn.
>>739658996How is it not? Are you basing it strictly on the grids being small and no serious campaign? Cause moment to moment gameplay is pretty much the same as most games in the genre
>>739658996How is ItB not a Tactical RPG
>>739659227ItB is more of a puzzle game desu
>>739658713>argue objectively like a SRPG player.>numberslopLOL
>>739659258"More of a puzzle game" but it's still a tactical RPG.Progression is still key.
>>739658945>soulful chibis>fully voiced>hard mode is actually hard>plays like a frankenstein baby of xcom and FE
>>739659368>waifufaggotry>tries to appeal to SRPG fans
>>739659368Even normal is hard.
>>739659356People here have no idea what words are on this board I swear. I had to argue with some guy insisting the shit you have to do between shots in pragmata was not a puzzle minigame simply because the puzzle was too easy. He didn't consider it a puzzle.
>>739659419Did I miss a memo? Last I checked SRPGs and waifufaggotry got along like peanut butter and jelly.
>>739655495yes. some of them even let you turn them off entirely, others let you tap to skip (FFT does this)but that doesn't address the fact that it's a niche genre that requires a ton of extra effort that goes unappreciated
>>739658287hexes are better for wide open spaces. squares are better for lots of rooms and corridors.
>>739659336Still better than posting a webm with no actual proof of "strategic depth".Numberslop is what the webm shows.You want to advertise your game with webm you gotta do better son.
>>739659356idk man no matter how hard you progress in ItB the level design and enemy setup/actions is still the same. Enemies still spawn and attack in a way that creates and "ideal move" which you are supposed to seek out.
>>739659525Since when? If your research is based on the FE waifu threads they don't care about the strategic part of the game.Mewgenics threads are also just full of newsgroundsfags.
>>739656178move it up the list boss
>>739649385Plenty still come out, you just need to know where to look.
>>739659590>Enemies still spawn and attack in a way that creates and "ideal move" which you are supposed to seek outSo what's wrong with that? Are you saying that the common tactical RPGs have more sophisticated AI?
>>739653948Because FFT fans are the majority of those SRPG fans and they don't have actual idea of what makes a good SRPG. All they care is job systems and buildmaxxing.The majority of FE fans are waifufags, while the minority of them just resides in the romhack communities without actually trying to make their own game.
>>739654014scale and goaltactics is the specifics of a maneuver and how it should be executed in this specific environment.strategy is the overall thing you are trying to do.to put it in vidya termsyour strategy might be to debuff the shit out of enemies, with the requisite supporting units to do that, healers, other defensive units, etc and then depending on the specifics of the game you might invest in your units in a way to do this, such as to reduce enemy debuff resistance, having a variety of debuffs, or other such things. It would also encompass things like class selection, gear, skill trees, etctactics would X unit will use Y ability to enable another unit to do Z and how that is a repeatable technique that is available to you. But it also encompasses things like what units you want to send in first and why, how you plan to support them, if you care if they die or not, what your goals are with your individual units, etc. Something like I want to send my warrior in so they can't just run past, I will have a healer nearby but out of range of enemies to heal him, and my debuffer units will go on top of the hill, the warrior is just going to spam his defensive ability and doesn't need to do damage, the debuffers will apply poison to every unit first, and then maintain that while any extra time will be spent putting a bleed as a secondary debuff, prioritizing their healers and magesits similar stuff but still very different.
>>739658945>I mean you didn't say anything at all and just say it "mogs".the most unique thing about RC is the expansive item usage compared to other strategy gamesof course, it's balance, difficulty, units, maps, enemies, and story are al great too
>>739658713>>739658646
>>739659685The more you reduce player freedom the less it becomes a tactics game and the more it becomes a puzzle game. You're eliminating variability and begin approaching a binary of 'objectively correct move' vs 'objectively incorrect move' like how a puzzle typically has a single solution with a specific amount of actions you need to take to reach it.ItB's level generation combined with its enemy AI and tiny maps is a puzzle game once you start seeing how it really works. Every turn is setup for an objectively correct move on the part of the player. It doesn't matter if its the first island with starter mechs or the final island with maxed out mechs, the levels and enemies will still move to create those binary best move scenarios. It doesn't even matter what mechs you take in your loadout as enemies and spawns will change to enable those mechs.Did you bring a sumo mech? Then the level has an enemy spawn 2 tiles away from a monster so you can perfectly flip it to stop the spawn and cancel its attack on a city. And it does this at all times regardless of what you the player are doing on a macro progression level.
>>739649947Stop watching porn
is there any other SRPG that encourages you to use your usable items?I've played tons of SRPG and I actually can't remember a single one that does.Most items in SRPGs are generic shit like "heal your HP/MP", "deal elemental damage", "stats buff", "summon minion", "increase EXP" etc.This is probably why I really like Reverse Collapse and regard it as THE best SRPG ever made, no joke. It feels like in every single stage of Reverse Collapse, I'm always forced to use everything I have, otherwise I'm fucked.I guess XCOM does this as well? but I'm not sure, I don't remember it well.
>>739656290>26 years later>still the best tactical game ever madeHow did they do it?
>>739658713One of the reasons Reverse Collapse is my GOTY, it actually forces you to use items or you die, and you have to strike a careful balance of using them because they are so much more efficient than basic attacks and saving them because your save might be bricked for next stage if you are bone dry on resources.Bakery is not difficult and most maps are designed with enabling you to beat them with what's just lying around on them and it was made even easier with the nerfs to stealth levels, making it so that going loud doesn't instantly fail your mission. Start actively using your items, Reverse Collapse is a game where the game is balanced around you actively utilizing them and it does not punish you for using your resources. Items are not something you use "on a rainy day". They are meant to be an active part of your playstyle
>>739658360>do let players unlock the cursor and survey units and terrain over the map (traversable, breakable, insurmountable obstacle, water, dirt, lava, etc.)you should be able to examine your own units' stats, jobs, equips, resists, etc. so you can accurately judge the situation. some games even let you check enemy units (how much to disclose is up to you)>next/previous unit buttons so the player doesn't have to drag the cursor across 30 tiles to check a unit's stats>add speed up or skip buttons for everythingdigimon survive lazily slapped on speed multipliers for animations, but 95% of climbing and descending animations are fucking grating even fastforwarded (units jump every single time there's a change in altitude and there's a marked delay as they prepare to hop)>careful with your menus. players HATE scrolling 80 places to find a sword, then another 95 places to find a helmet, then 108 places to find a breastplate, etc.again, digimon games do this shit (survive). it's annoying to no end and they don't even have page skip buttons. worst of all, the cursor RESETS every time you equip something, so you have to scroll all over the fuck again if you change your mind
>>739658075>Our Adventure's GuildNever heard of it but if you have it above Fell Seal I need to check it out. Hi /socg/
oversaturated with shit like disgaea series. it used to be only serious stories
>>739659957i've never even played another SRPG where the items didn't amount to heal or a shitty 5-tile grenade at half damageif someone could combine that from bakery + masteries from troubleshooters, then we could get a GEM
>>739650478nigger test
>>739660010I'd put it below Fell Seal personally on account of it being a Darkest Dungeon clone in the worst possible way - i.e. forcing you to grind dozens of the same 3 mission types before deeming you worthy to play the next story mission. Fell Seal, at least, constantly gives you something new.
>>739659917You don't have to objectively make the perfect move and yet you still can win.That's why you don't play on bullshit difficulty modes. Every tactical RPG when you scale the difficulty becomes a rigid game where everything must be optimized.In highest FE difficulties people complain about losing a unit due to bullshit critical hits and misses. Also you ignored the fact that the velks make random suboptimal decisions sometimes.
>>739659998>and you have to strike a careful balance of using them because they are so much more efficient than basic attacks and saving them because your save might be bricked for next stage if you are bone dry on resources.This is why I didn't like the game and dropped it halfway. Items being strong is cool but RC takes it too far so it started leaning into savescuming so you can get the maximum use from as few items as possible.
>>739659957Xcom does flash bangs and smokes are goated Tactics Ogre has me using shit but maybe because I’m bad at game
>>739659998>and it was made even easier with the nerfs to stealth levels, making it so that going loud doesn't instantly fail your missiondesu going loud on stealth missions is usually harder because the intended path to remain hidden is usually easier to intuit than killing the 60 reinforcements + map aggro. i think the only map I went and won loud on was the forest escape map with jefuty
>>739660102I'd say Fell Seal felt even more like a FFT clone if you call OAG a DD clone - which it barely even imitates. The only thing OAG has remotely similar to DD is the death resist and mood system, everything else it does differently.You don't even need to grind all the time, just send units to dispatch missions and can still gain money.It's also much more forgiving and customizable.
>>739658447Honestly after a point I have to wonder if proper leveling systems are even useful for this genre. It's one thing to have class and growth progression, it's another when you can just run around cycling filler battles for the sake of leveling your army and now they're walking demigods off of stat walls rather than dynamics or roles.
Is that Darkest Dungeon srpg game any good? Kingdoms or whatever it’s name was
>>739660198>You don't even need to grind all the time, just send units to dispatch missions and can still gain money.There's literally a bar that fills by doing random missions and until you fill it enough you don't get the next big story mission.
cont.>>739660102Fell Seal is even more linear than FFT.
>>739654014Tactics = Leveling up, different stats, units have real names.Strategy = Limited leveling up, consistent stats, units are not personal.
>>739650909I love it when rpg removes planet-destroying attacks, replacing them with a simple shove that deals an extra point of damage...
Codename: Bakery Girl 2092RThis the actual remake of Codename: Bakery Girl (2013), the most brutal SRPG ever made that's unlocked after beating Reverse Collapse (the reimagining of Codename: Bakery Girl).
>>739660261Yeah but in those random missions you can get special weapons/items and even activate random events that can grant you traits permanentlyI do think the missions could be more varied though
>>739660232>, it's another when you can just run around cycling filler battles for the sake of leveling your army and now they're walking demigods off of stat walls rather than dynamics or roles.every FE gets raped by juggernauting. fixed stats/exponential level curves is another way to somewhat mitigate this
>>739649385Peaked with FF Tactics and there was no improving on a 10/10 game like that so it was over
>>739649385Pic related failed because it's AI-generated live2d gachaslop.Tactical RPGs in general fail because turn-based games as a whole need an appealing artstyle or visual flavor to garner an audience, and for some unknown reason TRPG devs in particular just can't be fucked putting in the effort.
>>739660336I still need to play this part
>>739660374Speaking as someone who used to hold FFT to the highest degree, It's people like this that thinks that it is the peak of SRPG are the problem.Every map is just kill the boss / all enemies and you think this is peak SRPG?
>>739660343This is the main reason I compared it to DD and what ultimately made me drop the game (like it did with DD).There's only so many randomly generated missions where you fight the same handful of enemies I can take before it starts becoming tedious.At least the combat in Adventurer Guild is better, DD is actual mobile-tier slop.
>>739658360>>739660009oh yeah, if you're gonna have AoE skills>careful with AoE damage balancingAoE usually comes with steep compromises (either one or a combination of huge MP costs, short range (exposes caster to damage), lower damage, lower accuracy, damage split among enemies hit, damage tapers off away from center, etc.). if you don't, then AoE becomes a free damage multiplier that makes single-target skills obsolete>be fucking careful with how AoE skill procs workdigimon survive has attacks that grant buffs. there's an infamous boss that triggers a +2 stage self-buff per unit hit (it can take it from -4 to +4 in 1 turn), and the damage boost applies BEFORE the skill hits (iirc). yes, the devs are that retarded. good thing you can cheese the fuck out of the game with gay crystals that make the AI focus the holder>be careful about melee vs rangedagain, in Digimon Survive, melee attackers are useless (most ranged units are as tough as melee, exposed to counters from target, guaranteed to receive back attack next turn since most units have a move dist of 4, can't bypass guard while ranged units can hit diagonally from the side)
>>739660448Yeah enemy and mission variety is a bit lacking I can agree in OAG.But I can't put Fell Seal above it since it's like playing a reskinned FFT with even less features.
>>739649947samei dropped rpgs altogether overnight, and it was my favorite genre
>>739660443boomers refuse to try out new things and just complain nonstop about modern vidya are all shit
>>739658360Always have the option to speed up/skip animations.I don't care how hard you worked on them, seeing them for the 100th time gets old.
>>739658360Spend a lot of time testing different ways to handle accuracy that feels good for your game. There are almost no SRPGs that use straight % chances no matter what they tell you because true random rolls feel like shit.This is all academic anyway. "Thinking about" is not the same as actually making a game.
>>739657379Games like XCOM and Jagged Alliance have both strategic management and tactical combat layers. Meanwhile, UO only has a glorified auto-resolve button with 5-minute cinematic experience battle animations as its """"""""""tactical"""""""""" layer.
tired of cat tranny posts brehs...
>>739660737Tell this to that anon who keeps spamming UO threads
I'm playing SoC now and I'm unironically enjoying it despite it being a gacha shit.
>>739660759mewgenicsfags aren't really srpg fans, they just adore it because it's made by edmund right?
>>739651006Same feeling here but honestly it's not even that bad once you realize that the only content worth doing, SoD, doesn't need you to use gacha stuff at all.
>>739660818I haven't played so I can't comment.
>>739659957Tactics Ogre Reborn, and only that version.But yeah Reverse Collapse is easily top 5 of the genre.
>>739659957I don't understand this obsession with RC's item system in particular. A lot of things items do are replicated in other games by skills. It's just a matter of being restricted by item count vs MP cost or whatever skills use.
>>739660969I was so sad they made the new reverse collapse an extraction shooter. Bakery 2 won't come until at least 2032
>>739660801i play it for the hags
>>739660232Don’t Fire Emblem games have basically no grinding at all? I recall in FE7 you couldn’t repeat fights and the only way to “grind” was the arena which was super risky because you could lose hours of progress if someone died.
>>739655895>Real Time With PauseI mean I don't have a problem with this genre, but I wouldn't call it a tactical RPG anymore>Build autismBuild autism is OK but it shouldn't sacrifice it only to neglect SRPG stuff like emergent scenarios, on-map events, etc>Decent character customizationReally don't care about this, this is just stuff that MMOfags want
>>739658360Give me classes or give me death.
>>739661382the newer games do
>>739661382There's always degenerate grinding methods like dodging attacks for 1 xp each or using a boss in a thtone as a meatbag, but most of the time it's a complete waste of time since the game gives you late game units that are good enough for the job.
>>739661382It has boss abuse, but really that only is a problem if you are a grindfag. Otherwise the only people that call FE grindy are people who abuse save states or skirmishes. Conquest is proof in the pudding that you can beat any FE in higher difficulties without grinding perfectly fine. Even Engage and 3H. Like the options are there, but that is for shitters and shitters are eternal grindfags and will find ways to bend the system for themselves regardless.
>>739649385They're all gacha games these days.
They’re actually better than ever. FFT/FE have been surpassed. If you go back and play old stuff from the 90s/00s like Langrisser or GBA emblem, it’s just so BAD.
>>739660801I would 100% play the shit out of it if it WASNT a gacha, or if it was a super generous gacha like Limbus. Shame.
>>739660801i found to gacha shit to not be intrusive
>>739660443>Every map is just kill the boss / all enemiesWhat's wrong with that?
Suikoden honestly should have been a TRPG series from the start.
>>739661986So what's wrong with expecting more from that?OK so even if the objectives are still defeat boss/enemies, they never do anything interesting with the map placement and include any battle scenarios (reinforcements and an ally suddenly coming to rescue).Like in Thracia you get placed in prison where you gotta free other prisoners to proceed.FFT never put you in those situations.
>>739649385you can't really die off as a genre when most people can only name 3 of them from nearly 20 years ago
Can't let this thread die now.Post series (not just games) that would've made a cool T/SRPG adaptation.
>>739662075>they never do anything interesting with the map placement and include any battle scenariosSee, now those are good complaints.
i liked fftjobs are satisfying to level, mix and match and it's fun to find creative ways to break the game - of which there are numerousevery other game is just numbers getting bigger, no customization, no utility that mattersfft you can have a chemist that breaks equipment by shooting the guy halfway cross the map. It's just more fun.
>>739659957Items in Hundred Line ine powerful, don't consume actions to use, and refill between battles, so you're encouraged to abuse the hell out of them. Having one of your guys chug a bunch of pills and perform a suicide attack is a pretty standard opening move.
>>739662646please play other srpgs than fft unc
>>739662764>asking tactics fans to play more than one gameHOW COULD THIS GENRE BE DEAD!
>>739661047It's a horde shooter, not an extraction shooter. PvE only, mimicking Helldivers.
>>739662764i havestella deusjeanne d'arcfell sealsome fey game that came out semi recentlystella glow was decentfire emblem and new xcom good tho. Not as good as tactics tho
>>739649385https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhfTpQIVnw
>>739656085What? I genuinely don't believe that. DD1 was the worst SRPG I've ever played and it felt like it was made by someone who had played FE: Awakening and liked it but couldn't articulate why
Play troubleshooters
>>739661382Nowadays they make purchasable DLCs just for grinding.
>>739649385Turn based fag really complain that much about their genre dying despite getting tons of games, while real time tactical RPGs literally get only 1 or 2 games
>>739649385The younger generations are getting dumber
>>739663412I mean I assume RTS games do share the same audience with city sim games which are really hard to develop so it makes senseTurn based TRPGs shouldn't be that hard to make compared to that
>>739662903not enough uncalso i disagree fe isn't as good as tictacs
>>739649385>Sword of Jambalaya
it's a boring genre that doesn't usually ever come down to tactics but to statchecking the map with a couple overpowered units
>>739665008>t. only played FFT and GBA FE as their srpgs
>>739662480>hylicsI like it alot desu and think it would benfit from the genere>aotidk how that would even work, the titans are too big and the humans are too small
>>739666371I think they could refer to Saiyuki as an inspiration, although maybe just for the titan shifting shit.The general combat would involve lots of using 3d maneuver gear and firearms anyway.
>>739662480I want more mecha or mecha adjacent types of settings. There's R-Type tactics but it's pretty light on RPG mechanics. And of course there's super robot wars but I've heard they're pretty similar to project X zone which I wasn't really a fan of.
>>739649385So how good was the final fantasy tactics remake in hindsight? Is it the go to version to play the game or is the psp version still the best?
>>739649385>Why did Tactical RPGs die?Because they're neither tactical nor RPGs.They're just VNs with progression losely tied to your character's stats. Hardly any real choice or strategy involved. They still can be entertaining, but hardly good GAMES.
>>739666998List the tactical RPGs you've played
>>739649385No.
>>739660818Both can be true. I had fun with Mewgenics and generally enjoy SRPGs
>>739649385the genre peaked 30 years ago with Tactics Ogre and FFTactics
>>739649385i havent played many games like this disgaea and old xcom if that counts
>>739667187This kind of post is why it died..Boomers who just want every game to be FFT 2.0..Also the reason why Mercenaries Saga games exist, being a piss-poor ripoff of FFTI've yet to see TO 2.0 though
>>739667230FFT already was TO 2.0.
>walks up to you>slowly eats a Bag of Food>shouts THE SUNFIRE RISESh-haha, yeah...
>>739652984Nope. It had a dude that could hurl coffins across the screen though and flying fuckers with wings.
>>739667248FFT is TO Remixed, not TO 2.0
>>739658360Please do add direction mechanics and zone of control if you are going for a more realistic approachAlso give the player early access to weapons that hit multiple tiles, a spear piercing the back or a broadsword sweeping everything in front of you.
>>739667327FFT was Matsuno's second Tactics game. Part 2. 2.0 if you would. Every version of TO other than the SFC original is TO Remixed.
>>739667554Yet it doesn't play like TO in many ways. Only the basic tactical combat was lifted directly from TO and the vibe of the story. Many mechanics in TO wasn't present in FFT.
>>739649385The real answer is not enough weird stuff.All units are humans or rarely monsters.You need more crazy shit, like summoning units (not to cast a spell but to actually stay), 2x2 units and the likes.You need to advance the genre by escalating things, ultimately all forms of entertainment trigger the same dopamine response of always needing something more extreme.
SRPG abilities always feel a little overtuned. It feels too easy to break the game in most cases. FFT outright gives you the strongest character ever as part of the main story while summon spells in TO aren't too difficult to get. There's something about CRPGs that definitely push the player harder, even if both genres get OP by the end.
>>739667703>All units are humans or rarely monsters.Depends on the monsters too. If it's just the standard fantasy stuff like orcs, goblins, griffins, ghouls, dragons it can get boring.Need every kind of abomination out there trying to attack villages.Final Fantasy actually has the best and most unique monsters, sadly FFT is not that big on it. The Lucavis are cool though.
>>739649385they didn't, there are still plentybut also they all look like your imagejust really fucking bad pixel graphics that are just not acceptable anymore man, although this is bordering on acceptable quite often they aren't. but this is a shitty gacha, automatically a non starterwe already had disgaea 5look at least on the level of disgaea 5 you cocksuckers
Should I play FFT? I never actually played it before. Is it like Tactics Ogre?
>>739668087The only thing FFT to TO is similar is that it uses an isometric map and the muh political backdropStats and mechanics are kinda different. FFT doesn't have "choices have consequences" while TO enforces it.Both have job systems but FFT's job classes are wilder. TO leans more toward realism.TO has crafting and looting from enemy drops, FFT relies on you stealing enemy gear to get epic loots. But I assume you played Tactics Ogre first so you might find it simpler.
Thoughts on Fae Tactics?
>>739654338the level cap was not good thoughit is bad to play a map and gain nothing for it. and in tactics ogre it wasn't one map, it was more like 3 or 4 maps often times where you were just getting absolutely nothing for it. people like PROGRESSION, it is the point of all rpgs. do thing, get reward, improve, do next thing.what people don't like is being corralled into situations where you are outnumbered - which you always are - by higher level more powerful units and you have absolutely no ability to tank them. i played through tactics ogre only a year or two ago and there were a couple of fights where i had to literally beeline the boss because it was -literally- not possible to endure or heal through the damage output they had vs my team. second ganpp fight i think comes to mind. the fight in the castle in the snow area against a boss, hektor i think?, i had to go capture an entire team of dragons just to be able to even remotely tank through the damage output of the enemy forces because it was not possible with human units. i also had to go farm materials to buy busted potions because healers were not remotely sufficient.it was not fun to do this, i did not enjoy reloading to farm like 5 dragons and then doing it again. granted the game had no real difficulty spikes outside of those really, and its biggest problem is just how dosghit autoing through infinity potd floors is, and how dogshit the system is of having to farm particular enemies for spell and item drops.people generally do not enjoy it when enemies both kill their units in 1-2 hits and themselves do not die in 1-2 hits in return. in fact, your units should never actually die in 2 hits when you are outnumbered 2-3 fold, it's a bad design starting point to begin with
>>739668392mid overall, but nice conceptnot my taste
>>739668415agree.level cap sucks.if you want to actually test player skill, why not make the optional encounters more difficult instead
>>739655809its literally just worse than dark deity 1i dont understand how they took away every single possible wrong conclusion
Nobody made good ones except disgaea and they fumbled with 5. They just should copy disgaea but remove cunny or fft and make it faster
>>739649385Global IQ drop in the last few decades. AI generated mobile games are a better fit for modern audiences.
>>739658075>your units are chess pieces on basesinstant not play, devs that do this need to get a fucking grip
>>739668087FFT difficulty falls off much faster, combined with the small party size, there’s less reason to use generics over uniques. Experimenting is about switching every job on the same characters. All this, plus a linear story, means that FFT is quicker but pretty short compared to TO.
>>739658445call me when it actually has the power progression and level up and gear scaling an rpg actually needs man. the game is just a puzzle game, a good one, a hard one, but it lacks 80% of the elements that make rpgs actually enjoyable
They are too hard to make good.Not FFT /TO level, just the bare minimum was difficult to make.The fact that some people can play Mercenaries Saga and be okay with its quality just baffles me.
>>739668192>>739668563Honestly most of those sound like good things, I never really cared for the route splitting in TO cause I didn't particularly find any of the endings to be satisfying and my autism compells me to never use generics in games. I always prefer named characters. Thanks anons I'll pick it up and give it a go.
>>739668530>literally Battle Brothers have busts as piecesAs long as the game plays smoothly I have no problem with it
>>739659356its a puzzle game because you can't play the way you wantyou have to play it the way the dev wants you to play it, you cannot come up with your own plan, your own builds, it is shoehorned into very specific playstyles and outcomesthis is, obviously, bad. there should be 50 ways to approach any encounter, all able to succeed
>>739649385Because the only tactic modern devs have is make everything gay.
>>739668530What a random thing to get upset about
>>739668667Literally the hardest SRPGs on the highest difficulty makes you have to hyper-optimize everything, so I don't see any problem with this>there should be 50 ways to approach any encounter, all able to succeedThis kind of game doesn't exist. I want to be proven wrong
>>739649385They didn't.They're probably more popular than ever now. It was never a super popular genre.
I love Dofus, the best tactical MMORPG.
CAMELOTOSUSHIN
>>739650416Iirc there are two cat themed trpg. Not a single good one with a decent story like to.
Lancer Tactics was also teased.https://store.steampowered.com/app/4049810/Lancer_Tactics/
>>739663042games greatbut its so fucking longand the passives system is so fucked, 99.999% of people are just googling what the fuck the combinations are to unlock because the game does a super dogshit job of telling you. i stopped after 70 hours and like 100 out of 230+ achievements. someday i'll go back to it but they really fucked up making so much "optional" side shit except it all actually contains story, and every map is a fuckhuge 1 hour 400 enemy fest.i think i would have enjoyed more of the game if i hadn't done any of the side stuff at all, fighting jacked up fucking rabbits and tigers for drops that cant actually be used to craft anything useful anyway.also crafting system bad, also the territory system is just wasted. hope the sequel fixes these, although the sequels characters look mostly worse so far...
>>739650637Wrong. If anything it's solely the fact that all fights are identical. Speed is king, damage a close second. Status is fun at best, but no alternative. The solution is lilely enemies having their own set of rules, else you end up like tor where every boss has double your stats and a mandatory higher level. The result is undignified chip damage or cheese.>>739651006It's free. Just don't waste money.
imagine a tactics game in this style bwos
I wish we got Devil Survivor clones.But instead of SMT demons they are regular humans or fantasy monsters.And instead of just 3v3 at max it can be more varied.
>>739653832They remade it in the ff11 or 14 engine. Wasn't cheap as se is an unproductive company.>>739654102Wrong.
>>739668725>This kind of game doesn't exist. I want to be proven wrongNot him, but Troubleshooter.
>>739663042>troubleshooters>PC onlyMaybe when they port it.
>>739669010I've played it and to me it's just another buildmaxxing version of XCOM with a limited roster of characters.FFT actually had more variety than Troubleshooter.
>>739654338I strongly dislike romance in games, as its cheap and ugly. Here however denim and catiua should've ultimately become a couple.
>>739668725You have to optimize to a degree, but you get to CHOOSE what you're optimizing is the point.I can boot up a bunch of games on hardest difficulty and I can play with the units I want, for the playstyle I want, and do just fine. If I wanna heavy focus casters, or archers, or fight attrition wars, I can do so. A good srpg will allow me to do so, as long as I optimize my chosen units and playstyle for that purpose. Puzzle games don't let you do this. In fact in a puzzle game if you so much as move to the "wrong" hex one round you can just lose
>>739654779All shit btw. Tactics returners is the only one that might become decent. Tactics crimson had good ideas but ran out of funding. Absolute and reverie tactics are an insult. I guess ffta/2 will come out as bundle and hopefully we will get kol in the tor engine.
>>739654868They have bugs that are unforgivable
>>739649385because after playing 2-3 maps you've experienced everything the game has to offer so all that is left is mindless repetition for no reason, just with higher damage values.
>>739655774Gaem?>>739655809Well, duh?
>>739655895You played fellseal, I guess? Pathbreakers might be up your alley.
>>739656292>Only gets super gay when you get into World shit and equipment gets hit with nerfs too.>If anything enemies die too quickly if you know what you're doingLevel 70 enemies kinda don't
>>739651804>It's not a clusterfuck of broken systems and classes that need to be reworked every year because the devs have 0 clue what they're doing, for one.>because the devs have 0 clue what they're doingYou are the clueless one. Shaking the meta is a staple for GaaS.
>>739656291Se said it sold very well. Still waiting for a ffta remake.
>>739657880Off the list it goes, it's ugly af
>>739658075Iron oath? Crimson Tactics?
>>739669172>i don't like srpgs let me complain that srpgs are not what i want, which is an entirely different genre of tactics puzzle games which also existsIf you do not enjoy seeing +1 stats, if you do not enjoy promoting your units to get cool new sprites, if you do not enjoy looting a new axe and equipping it, srpgs are not, never have been and never will be for you anon.But also, categotically incorrect. If I recall radiant dawn had more than 3 different types of map objectives even if you dumb it down and try to combine "defend a location" and "defend an active moving npc" as the same thing. There are easily half a dozen different map objective types you can put in srpgs without even thinking about it, and all of them have a bunch of different ways to make them subtypes so that they still feel different. Plenty of srpgs have bad, unvaried objective design, but there is nothing making it that way other than the devs choices.
Alright this thread has convinced me, I'm gonna play FFT, Any tips I should know going in? Playing the new rerelease.
>>739658360>has to look good, better than triangle strategy>deep mechanics, much more than ov offers, think troubleshooter>easy to get into>compelling narrative >rpg means you have choices>custom protag with decent story>generics>fun companions>don't forget music and map designDo this and you can make a fortune. Everything can be done on a decent level. Ai coding is said to be the most difficult part on trpg, idk if true.
>>739669370>If you do not enjoy seeing +1 stats, if you do not enjoy promoting your units to get cool new sprites, if you do not enjoy looting a new axe and equipping it, srpgs are not, never have been and never will be for you anon.you can have meta progression without mind numbing gameplay that is an insult to intelligent life. >But also, categotically incorrect. If I recall radiant dawn had more than 3 different types of map objectives even if you dumb it down and try to combine "defend a location" and "defend an active moving npc" as the same thing. There are easily half a dozen different map objective types you can put in srpgs without even thinking about it, and all of them have a bunch of different ways to make them subtypes so that they still feel different. Plenty of srpgs have bad, unvaried objective design, but there is nothing making it that way other than the devs choices.The design space is null. It works on children or midwits, but once you play a couple of these games you've played them all. There's nothing new for you outside of very slow and plodding gameplay that, with any amount of foresight, you can predict in advance so all that is left is half an hour of boring gameplay to arrive to result you've conceptualized long ago.
>>739659975We just don't have the tech nor the skill to replicate this, I'm afraid. Se would need a budget of 500 trillion usd, maybe more. Think 600 years dev time minimum.
>>739660329Muhammed, the sabotage cat.>>739660336What's tactical chess?
>>739667937Fft has plenty of monsters, much more than brigandine. Admittedly many are reskins.
>>739669104But every build is viable in ITB when you are experienced enough with each squad, I don't see why you are criticizing it for this>In fact in a puzzle game if you so much as move to the "wrong" hex one round you can just loseSo you are calling FE a puzzle game right?
>>739669352>Iron OathNot an FFT clone so I can't rank it in this context. I tried it once but got turned off by the UI, although I just checked it again and might play it in the future.>Crimson TacticsSeems to be unfinished innit
>>739660532the fuck? do you just play simple games now like shooters or cinematic Sony slop?
>>739669742Speaking of brigandine, the new one look like total ass
>>739668578you level up items and upgrade guns
>>739669954>shootersrequire much higher level of both understanding and especially execution than TRPGs. I can't stress this enough, but TRPGs are "midwits feels clever" genre, whereas their actual intellectual challenge is more in line with something like match 3.
>>739670123he said rpgs in general though
>>739669574>but once you play a couple of these games you've played them all.Because you're a low iq retard anonIt is quite possible for 100 different "defend the castle gate" maps to be equally interesting and enjoyable. You're making the argument that once you do something once, it is not fun to do it again in any variation ever again. You never eat the same meal twice? You consider radically different variations of those meals 'the same' because they're fundamentally made with beef?Just an incredibly dumb argument man. Completely different games, completely different unit types, completely different map design and layout, completely different composition, completely different systems and abilities, but you defended a castle gate once so you've "done it" and think it can never be used again.As I said in the original post, you don't actually like these games. You want puzzle games, and unfortunately for you you apparently want an infinite variation of puzzles that aren't even remotely similar at even the most surface level. You're cooked
>>739670123I am not saying shooters are bad but I find them too simplistic to me in terms of gameplay variety.If you really think TRPGs are for midtwits maybe you just have played all much of them and have outgrown the genre. But I really doubt that desu
>>739669805>So you are calling FE a puzzle game right?fe has plenty of bad design, but in this particular instance no. losing a unit in fe is not "losing". you can lose 8 units and still power through with your best character. this is not true in puzzle games, because every move the dev has planned out for you to play the way they want relies on you having all of your units, and on having none of those units fall behind either generally.
>>739669172>all that is left is mindless repetition for no reason. just with higher damage values.I mean I am sure nobody that truly likes RPGs just want bigger numbers all the time unless you are a gachafag.The SRPGs you are playing are pretty bad if that's the biggest problem you have with the genre.I assume it must be the Disgaea games, since that's actually a valid observation if you only played 2-3 maps
>>739670391losing a single important unit CAN literally cost you the game, wtf are you on?literally getting softlocked if their important damage dealer or pegasus knight dies despite not getting a game over.We are talking about the highest difficulty btw>because every move the dev has planned out for you to play the way they want relies on you having all of your units, and on having none of those units fall behind either generally.but you are surely talking about the highest difficulty only right? in ITB you can get away with losing a mech in the easy diff ones iirc
>>739660532Personally, I just don't have time to grind levels for 50 hours since the MSQ and secondaries don't give you enough exp, I still like those games.
>>739649385Same as RTS.>Peaked very early due to not needing fancy graphics.>Of interest only to people with above 90IQ (0.1% of the world population) >genre where all games look superficially the same (hard to convince newcomers to try old stuff) but play very fucking differently in practice (hard to convince old timers to try new stuff)
>>739649385Is Baldur's Gate 3 a tactical RPG?There's Symphony of War, Langrisser, X-Com, Wasteland 3, Jagged AllianceI miss Front Mission and was excited for Kriegsfront Tactics, but someone said something about SEA politicians
>>739670651Yes by virtue of the combat itselfI also consider the pre-remake Trails in the Sky trilogy an SRPG/Tactical RPG
>>739653723>>739654009Jarpig melty after being called out
>>739670839Remake is my next game, good or nah?>>739670651No
>>739671027NTA but I just started chapter 3. The game is amazing so far.
For me, it's Banner of the Maid.
>>739672021It didn't stick the landing with me, I got bored a couple chapters in and dropped it.
>>739668087I tried it and I didn't like it. You get a unit early on that you can't even control and the AI just suicides, it's really stupid.
>>739671068Hopefully so. Will get it next sale. Having high expectations.
>>739668087IMHO to is the better game, but og fft is a close second. Mods or hacks make the game last hundreds of hours. Even an ng+ hack is available.
>>739662480I made this for a /v/ dream game thread but never got much use out of it cause the thread died in like 4 posts, so I'm posting it here since i won't get another opportunity to post it for a long while
>>739662005Suikoden having multiple battle types is part of the appeal. Switching throughout the game from in person RPG encounters to giant strategy game battles helped tie the gameplay and plot together, and make the world feel more real, and vast.Losing either one would mean sacrificing something valuable.
>>739668392Acceptable. It's not better than to.
>>739649385You know why.
>>739668392Amazing game, i love it, though i understand why people say it's basic even though personally i enjoyed it, the studio is now making a beat em up with even better art and the gameplay "looks" like it's gonna be amazing
>>739669954sandbox, automation and exploration gamesit feels good not being restrained by menus
>>739674313>Only FE make good SRPGBEHOLDTHE GREAT FILTER OF THE MASSES
>>739674981Bad reviews, why?
>>739675306plebs filtered by UI and control, all of it explained in a thing called "manual" that you can find in the game folder as a pdf file.
>>739675428>manualSounds like something boomers use - zoomers, probably. That aside, I think it's worth a shot. Deep tactics are in short supply. It's not a beautiful game.
I used to love them but the more I play them the more I cant stand themI think its just really hard to design these games in ways that make them different from one anothereven designing levels themselves is hard, you just feel like you're doing same thing over and over again
>>739675516Honestly, pirate it and do play all the tutorials otherwise you'll get your ass handed to you in the first scenario.make sure you read the manual too, everything about the game and its units are explained in there. oh and if you fancy it, the game is also modable so you add custom units by yourself and even make your own scenarios and custom maps, it is also LAN compatible for MP so if you have friends you can share all your files and play it together, in SP the bot is intelligent enough to make you regret the tiniest mistakes.
>>739675704>you add custom units by yourself and even make your own scenarios and custom mapsThat's very generous.>intelligent aiI've read that having a strong ai is no problem. Then again, these games should be difficult.>daisenyakuWhat does it mean?
>>739675867>>daisenyaku>What does it mean?I don't know, you typed gibberish
>>739675867>what does it meanDaisenryaku means "Great strategy", it's an old as fuck series that exist since 1985 but isn't very well known despite being started by SEGA
>>739652550They've been awfully silent lately.I know shit takes time but I can't help but think stuff has gone wrong somehow.
>>739649385By being fuck boring. There's rarely enough depth to justify how slow these games are. Valkyria Chronicles had the right idea, I wish they'd make a new one
When the fuck is this getting a remaster? It's one of the best games on the N64.
The One Vision mod for TO was so good I dont think I'll ever be able to enjoy another tactics game.
>>739676373Would be great but probably never going to happen because SEGA are brain dead.
>>739676042>DaisenryakuSorry that I'm not fluent in moon or this>>739674981Ugly font.>>739676120>Sega 1985Damn. Only 4 entries since then? I hope it has deep mechanics.
>>739658996Any strategy game sufficiently complicated enough inevitable turns into a puzzle game
>>739676835>Only 4 entries since then?>4https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisenryaku
>>739650478>implying this is a bad thing
>>739676997I think complexity adds to the amount of things you can do, usually. It's when there are few solutions that a game feels more like a puzzle game. Take Reverse Collapse's stealth levels, for example.
>>739677103srpgs ought to allow for a great breadth of options and mistakes to occur
>>739649385>10 year long turns>gameplay isn't substantially different than turn based rpgs>always lacks innovative systems>never deep enough
>>739649385They didn't, there's a few coming out every month, pull your head out of your ass.
>>739673865The problem is the TRPG mini game in Suikoden II is barely a game. It's scripted BS.in Suiko 1 the war game isn't even a TRPG. It's just Rock Paper Scissors ffs.Idk about the other suikoden, but I still stand by what I stated before. They could have switched into an Arc the Lad style of SRPG instead of the standard JRPG fights too for the random encounters.
>>739677224you can mistakes in a puzzle srpg, nobody is telling you you can't make mistakeseven so, in non puzzle games when you're playing a BS difficulty you aren't allowed to make mistakes
>>739649385play hard west
>>739663042soulless koreaslop
>>739678060Retard.
>>739669172maybe if you play disgaea or some chinese/korean slopa good tactical game will have every map being interesting and a good story and characters
>>739677224Maybe, but the diegetic time travel narrative is a hell of an excuse.
>>739678161He is right/ It has some soul but its quite bloated slop. I guess if you like grinding and bloat of skills to choose its fine but its not really good game.In the end I don't like it at all. Webm not related
>>739654014Depends on wherever you mean tactics in RPGs or the difference between real time strategy and real time tactics.
>>739649385Because Asian made TRPG's/SRPGs are an abomination. They took turn-based tactics games and replaced good encounter design and strategy with "just grind everyone to be a dual wielding ninja and walk your army into theirs lmao".Play Western made tactics games if you actually love the genre, not this weebshit for retards. And the one in your pic is a fucking gacha to boot.
>>739649385because of retarded faggots like >>739650478
>>739678409
>>739678409>Because Asian made TRPG's/SRPGs are an abominationPlay better games.
>>739676180They respond to every steam review, it’s kind of funny. Their last blog update was that they were taking the week off for Christmas and new year’s.
>>739650740THIS!
>>739678715I can't wait for my yearly Christmas playthrough.
>>739678409your westoid TRPGs are not really tactical or strategic at all, it's all just build pornKaga did map design better than you faggots
cont. >>739679120Also literally it's westoids who got inspired by Earthbound of all games to make faux RPGs like Undertale and Deltatroon, kekOMORI as well
>>739651371I will now play your game
>>739649385That one looked cool until I learned it was gatcha slop
>>739677927Fun game. I don't play with cards disabled.>>739678409>West tacticsLike fell seal?
>>739678409Post like this are why I come to /v/. Fuck weebs and their grinding simulators. Play Wartales, King Arthur, Xenonauts etc.
>>739679419Wartales is literally slop though.There is nothing strategic about it.Play BBros if you want actual tactics/strategy
I really liked convallaria and played it for a few days but it seems that every map was already solved and it had a simple way of solving it
>>739669954I play those mobile games where you combine squares of the same color.And I read classic literature.
>is quite literally, unironically the best turn-based strategy RPG ever produced>no one has played it
>>739679671Worst thing is the redundancy of classes. It's fascinating how they can milk their fan base dlc after dlc.>>739680090Convallaria is made to maximise profit, not fun.
Meowgenics is got tho
>>739658657Because the premise of the thread is inherently flawed. At no point has tactical RPGs died.
>>739680210This and VS2 are the only Kaga games I haven't played.Reason? Because the fanbase overhypes it too much.
>>739658657Because Menace doesn't appeal to tactical RPG fansEven a big portion of BB fans are alienated towards it
>>739680210>**according to FE-only toddlers
>>739678715the more you shill this chink slop the more disgusting it look
>>739649385Because the best one was released 28 years ago.
>>739658657>MENACEits just not good game and devs do not know what they want to do with itbiggest disappointment in this year so far, I have more fun with demo ghetto rigged for infinite operations that with full EA so far
>>739680742The most overrated one, esp. by FFT PSX boomers.Saying this despite this being my first SRPG and it used to be my GOAT of the genre.
>>739651371I love the beaks on these waifu/doofus characters.
Video game design and technology has evolved past teachnical limitations like having characters take turns moving around and letting enemies hit them because its their "turn".
>>739649768One (1) sex, please.
>>739680960Actually Front Mission 3 is my favorite and I'm a PS1 boomer
I played Reborn and I started thinking that removing levelling would be actually benefit these sort of games.
>>739681074Just play dynasty warriors then, you brainless goblin.
>>739681182It makes it more T but less RPG.
>>739681074This guy still makes those kind of games.
>>739681182I mean Reborn and its PSP predecessor clearly tried to make you hate levelling.
>>739649385A complete refusal to put them on PC.Fire Emblem would be more popular if you put it on PC.Unicorn Overlord? Put it on PC.Triangle Strategy? Well it's on PC but idk if the girls are cute so...
>>739681253He tried to do real time (with pause) but was buckbroken and submitted into redoing them into turn-based.
>>739681182Then shitters would endlessly complain the tactics game was TOO HARD and they kept losing because they can't powerlevel and grind instead of actually winning with STRATEGY.
>>739680587>doesn't have the attention span for 2-3 hour long missions
>>739658075Horizon's Gate is really fun because of the interplay between the Uncharted Waters part and the FFT. If it was just the FFT it'd be a much worse game, because it only has a handful of standout fights across the whole game.
>>739649385The downstream effects of Fire Emblem being revived by Melee have been an absolute disaster for the genre.
>>739681129FM3 was quite kino, at last for me back then>Do a run, have fun, >decide to play it again from start, >choose some option differently, >wtf, why there are completely different characters, battles and storyThe only game that surprised me more was me playing TO >the big choice(to massacre or not)>heh, nip san you will not fool me, there is no way that I can do bad things in a game>choose massacre just to test shit and expected to be told no>the fuck this nigga denam doing >no, it can't be, my good lad denam would not sank that low>reload choose NO>story changes, mind blown
>>739680587Hey just want you to know posts like this make it obvious you don't actually give a single shit about gameplay by the way
>>739681446Yup, any SRPG that you can’t overlevel and stomp with 1-2 units gets called a “puzzle” game
>>739681465not need to go defensive you autistic faggot
>>739681446Level cap is still a mistake since it wouldn't make sense if you beat equally levelled enemies you should be gaining experience in the first place.It doesn't make sense realistically.If they really want to test the player skills they should have made random encounters harder instead so it's more impossible to win as a skill check.
>>739681750Just make exp gains be very low if you overlevel enemies by a reasonable margin (2~3 levels). Only real retards would grind for hours earning 1exp just to powergrind the main story.
>>739681595NTA, but it also looks like mobage slop to me but I will try it someday to verify whether my intuition is correct or is it just another Octopath 2 situation where its dedicated fans hype it like it's the best thing ever only for it to be an average, yet decent game
>>739681364putting it on pc would attract all the 3rd-worlders, so please no.
>>739681595and you do? the guy is shilling it more like the gacha is shilled anyway it look like some uncanny shit, gameplay is more of a puzzle(save scumming recommended) and only saving point is that you need to USE YOUR LIMITED ITEMS(which make it even more of a puzzle and encourage save scumming more)its just not my sort of a game
>>739681871>Only real retards would grind for hours earning 1exp just to powergrind the main story.Literally the PSX/SNES/Genesis TO version lets you do this in training mode. I actually tried to do this thing as a stupid kid
Play Knights of the Chalice 2, it's the hardest game in the genre.
>>739681950You can’t save scum in bakery, pseud. Stop making shit up.
>>739681446They cried like that with level caps but seriously auto levelling to a cap would make playing this game much more smooth instead of sending your dudes to cap in training mode. Especially when levelling and building troops in Reborn is kind of fucked(same for PSP version, here its fucked and grindy) and it only really worked in OG TO.
>>739681707I am just mocking you for seething about a game you didn't play.
>>739650416op can't fap to that
>>739682097So you admit that its a puzzle game?>play, lose>learn where and when enemy is and when /where appear>learn when/where specifically use limited item >essentially must play level as a puzzle to winforcing player to replay level to succeed is poor design and not a strategy, its waste of everyone time, only braindead cultists will defend it>>739682319And I am mocking you for your shitty taste and lack of shilling skills. Stop coping with your inferiority, you could be playing some real tactics games instead of some shitty gacha related spinoff
>>739682543>supposed gameplay enjoyer when he actually has to engage with gameplay mechanicsYou're a fucking clown.
>>739682543>play>react and adapt>winHave you tried doing this? It works, too.
>>739682543>forcing player to replay level to succeed is poor design and not a strategyexactly and you should be able to first try every boss in Elden Ring, why waste my precious time
>>739682543That just happens in the puzzle sections. I won't comment on it one way or the other, as far as the combat sections go if you can't adapt that's just a skill issue.
>>739682543why do you hate trial and error so much?literally every gameplay guides online you see is a product of someone losing and retrying just for your sake
>>739682543No, you’re stupid. That’s why you call a game you’ve never played a puzzle game. There are plenty of choices in bakery.
Finding only one valid sequence to win make it puzzle game. Cry more brainlets
>>739682732Because it's a huge waste of time? That shit sucks ass.
>>739682880Which isn’t applicable to the game we’re currently discussing
too much time investmenteach battle can take 40 minutes and you can still fail
>>739682639Elden Ring is a dogshit game.
>>739682930So you never experienced failure at all in your life.
>>739682880What kind of schizo bs are you making?
>>739683072There is a very large difference between>Failureand>Failure because of impossible to foresee circumstances you cannot adapt to on the flySucker punching you with reinforcements you cannot see coming without knowing they exist ahead of time that immediately act based on a trigger is bullshit, and I will never back down on that point.
>>739683168Just baiting cultists. Its easy with fans of chink/gook games/
>>739682543Well I'll give you one small thing. There was a scripted event in one of the missions in the early game that could fuck you if you didn't know about it. However you can't name that early game stealth missions because you didn't play the game.Doesn't outweigh all of the kino missions in the game however.
>>739683262>40K ESL, very likely eastern yuro>retarded postsYeah checks out.
>>739683348Cry more chink slopper
>>739683390My favorite game in the genre is JA2. You are a faggot.
>>739683224You’re crying about a game because a different game raped your brain. Bakery doesn’t have reinforcement spam.
>>739650478Came into this thread to look for this, because it's correct. Tactics RPGs are retarded. You can't be tactical with a progression system you can freely grind. Imagine playing chess with someone except when your queen goes to take out a pawn, your queen loses the fight because you didn't take her, a rook, and a bishop into a corner and grind killing pigs for 40 minutes until she was strong enough to one-shot things.
>>739683495And you are bottom faggot. Cry more when I penetrate you from behind.
>>739683224>Failureand>Failure because of impossible to foresee circumstances you cannot adapt to on the flyis the same thing.All time people experienced failure because they don't know what they are expecting.People learn to drive a bike by failing and then getting up again.How are you supposed to get up when you didn't know you will fall in the first place?
Ignoring the obvious retard, has anything good released in the past year besides Mewgenics?
>>739683507I have no idea what Bakery is
>>739683649No they are not.
>>739683846Nothing for me personally Mewgenics is a good shake-up, but since it's mostly tabooish shock humor I dunno if jap devs will be inspired by it at all.
>>739683649I think there is a difference between both when there is actual strategic(or operational) layer and game go on even if current mission was failure. So JA2 or old UFO is not a puzzle game because you can actually lose(by wipe even) mission and still continue game and adapt to new enemy or situation when FE style games where you have mission after mission and you need clear Win condition to progress are more of a puzzle game. Especially if mission are hand crafted.
new fire emblem is coming out later this year at least. within the past 5 years triangle strategy is still the best recent SPRG/TRPG whatever you call them in my opinion. also i dont know if BG3 counts in the genre as well but it was also great
>>739683846I don't think so.I have my eye on some titles but they got either delayed or are in limbo.
anyone play this? i thought it was pretty good. early game was alright (3 party members is kind of boring) but the late-game missions with the full party, especially the free dlc missions, were pretty fun
>>739649385>>739649768First post makes clear why
>>739683649>Failure because I executed my strategy wrong and have to go back to the drawing boardis not the same as>Failure because I could not have known what strategy I was supposed to execute
>>739660801Same. Started a month ago. Most battles are simple/easy but some of the events have some actual thought required to win. The gacha stuff is okay, even if it feels like a financial scheme sitting on top of a decent game. I even chose to buy the daily gems as support. I didn't know the game existed til I randomly saw it on steam and the art style looked cool.
>>739683846>delayed
>>739660801>>739684578I played it for like month. The SP no gacha campaign wasn't bad but gacha sucked especially with daily stamina and story/lore missions gated behind it
>>739684572>>Failure because I executed my strategy wrong and have to go back to the drawing boardIs literally because you didn't know what the correct strategy is, yet.An accidental mistake is not a failure.
>>739684645I see free to play gacha as something like gardening. It is an extreme grind but after a while its cool to just see the fruits of what you've grinded for.Some people loath grinding, I kinda enjoy it and rolling for characters I want has a certain gambler's thrill to it. Sometimes luck feels good.Anyway, I'll see how long it lasts but I'm still liking it a lot after a month.
>>739684964I play Wizardry Daphne now and I tolerate the grind but daily stamina system really killed SoC for me, that and resources(even exp) coming mostly from items. Aka you can't just sit and grind because stamina and because of that your resources are limited so you can't level many characters(and most of them are rather useless anyway so if you levelled some low rank then its a waste)Its just shitty system
>>739684721Because you can't intuit the correct strategy from the information you have. Trial and error is bad.
So what im learning from this thread>game requires strategy = puzzel game>game doesnt require strategy = tactics gameThats about right? Where does mewgenics fall into that then? You can unga bunga the normal difficulties easyily but impossible requires some sort of game plan and set up
>>739685531>Thats about right?No. Even for a dumbass you are quite stupid.
>>739685451>Because you can't intuit the correct strategy from the information you have>Trial error is bad.Even if you did it successfully on 1st try you won't know how you did it so right unless you have information from those who did wrongly.
>>739685618>non responseConcession accepted
>>739651371french cartoons make my chest feel funny
>>739685707No concession granted to a illiterate like you.
>>739685767>a illiterateKek, cant even try to act superior properly
>>739660121>bullshit critical hitsIf you get hit with a critical in a Fire Emblem game, it's your own fault. The game is entirely based on simple math. The enemies have a crit value, you have a crit avoid stat. If your unit has less crit avoid than the enemy's crit, then you do not engage them unless you can survive taking 3x their damage. Simple as.
>>739686005
I wanted to like this genre, but the problem is, all of these games are simply inferior to X-COM: UFO Defense.
>>739649385Because it's too slow. Games like fire emblem at least have turn/animation skip in the modern iterations. >>739650740Trpg colloquially denotes having verticality. Fire emblem is an srpg.
>>739686026>literally gets offended about the word "bullshit critical hits"RNG worship is crazyNobody cares that you love those BS so much.Literally the thing that guy is talking about, respecting the system too much just makes the whole thing unfun and becomes a puzzle instead of a game
>>739686251>Trpg colloquially denotes having verticality therefore Fire Emblem is an SRPGno such thing, just your own self-imposed standards
>>739660737Your tactical layer is almost entirely confined to your party setup screen, but it's there.
>>739686282There's no bullshit involved, period. It's basic math. Your unit died from a crit because you're bad at the game.
>>739686342He’s kind of right. FE players call their game an SRPG and FFT players call it a TRPG, but as the thread shows, they’re the same genre and get brought up together.
>>739686658Not really, people use those terms interchangeablyHis definition that "TRPG denotes having verticality" has no basis either
>>739686953The FFT clones all have verticality and the FE clones are all flat but I agree it’s not a meaningful difference
>>739686987Yeah but people refer to non-FFT clones as TRPG all the time too"Tactical RPG" is a tag to many of these games on Steam
>>739687076eh , most steam tags are completely worthless
They're too slow for modern players
>>739678364Stefan deserves the giantess waifu every time.
>>739681364>what is emulationIf you on Nintendo consoles you on the PC to me. The fuck Miyamoto gon do?
>>739681672You're swinging between two extremes here. Yeah grindshitting your way through a game is lame but so are actual puzzle "srpgs" that only have 1-2 correct moves to make. There's some games that fall into the latter and they're not fun to play.
>>739687454Disagree, found many hidden gems through it and avoided bad ripoffs using itAlthough I agree some games are lacking certain tags that might have contributed to lack of exposure to their genre fanbase
>>739687779that story tho
>>739688383More like backstory, amirite?
Mecharashi
>>739686342I got said standards from online discussions. I'm not trying to force a definition, I thought that the online community split games between S and T based on whether they have verticality. It's similar to the "roguelike" quandary where the community definition might be at odds with the truer definition.
Thread gonna die soon
