>changed the logo, changed the subtitle, restarted development and specifically said the new game would be light instead of darkso pic related was an unmitigated fucking disaster, right? wonder if we'll ever get to see how bad it was. or maybe it was a reaction to FFXVI bombing?
>>739680578It was more of a reaction to dq fanbase being a bunch of retards who want the same generic slop
>>739680578Dragonquest is a HEAVILY nostalgia linked series, so IDK what the fuck possessed them to think anyone would want a 'darker, more mature' DQ game. People buy DQ to turn their fucking brain off.
>DQ11/S is a massive success>finally DQ has presence in the west>decide to 180 from it for 12never made sense to me why they thought this would ever have worked
>>739680578Game of Thrones/Dark FF did bomb and the discourse around DQXII was concern they were going to veer the franchise off course. If they had a great game on their hands, they would not have re-started development. Sorry Dark DQXII fans, but whatever you're dreaming the game was going for, it clearly wasn't succeeding at doing it well. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if the MC design of New XII is the same or similar to Old XII. He looks like he'd fit in in a dark, medieval game.
>>739680578I think a combination of FFXVI doing poorly and 7R not being the instant success Square Enix thought it'd be made them double back on both the setting and mechanics, though the latter remains to be seen.
>>739680665We saved Dragon Quest IX and we saved Dragon Quest XII.
>>739681057i wish we had gotten a trailer cause i genuinely can't imagine wtf a dark and gritty dragon quest would look like
Trying to make it an action game to pander to the western audience like they originally planned would have been literally the dumbest thing possible when the west is 5% of the sales.
>>739680578FFXVI action slop doing bad made them reconsider what they were doing for once.
>>739680668This, the darkest it should get is bad-end fairy tale stuff like the black knight or doll stories in IX
>>739681251They never said anything about it being an action game you figgernaggot.
>>739681190I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't get far beyond the planning stages before it was taken out behind the woodshed following FFXVI.
>>739680578Doubt they'd want the last DQ game Toriyama worked for to be dark and edgy
>>739681385DQ12: Flames of Fate was revealed 5 (FIVE) years ago, with radio silence ever since. If they reworked it early, surely we'd at least have a 2027 release window for DQ12: Beyond Dreams, but we don't. Instead they basically confirmed it's a long way off and in early development since FoF got scrapped.
>>739680578Wow so they completely chickened out and just did another safe entry fuck Square.
SE is genuinely so retarded it is painful, I can't think of a big JP developer that is even remotely as retarded as SE.Fuck.
>>739680668>earlier DQ games had a built in strategy guide and maps for the Japanese audience and didn’t require brainpower>internet was also widespread in 1988 so everyone knew where to goI thought the guide only came with the NA version? Also>DQ3 never included themes of slavery or sacrificial deathWas it all a mistranslation?
And all because FF7R flopped
>>739680665i've been saying this for years, you play one DQ you've literally played them all
So that stream was pretty much nothing?
>they just showed off how some of the characters looks>the protagonistJesus Christ, you can see the sheer disaster of the development expressed in how awful this shit looks.What the fuck were they thinking while developing this shit?
>>739680578>or maybe it was a reaction to FFXVI bombing?probably played a role in it, since it was going for that 'serious mature' vibe too initially
>>739681920Can you imagine how bad the "dark" DQ12 was like before getting canned? Or maybe the opposite, SQ is so retarded that they canned a good game just to make a dogshit one. Because I don't see the DQ11 team taking 5 years to land on this absolute garbage of a design.
>>739680578>game with femc was retconnedLmao
They realized that making a DARK AND EDGY DQ game would have been a fucking disaster for everyone involved.You could probably get away with it as a spinoff game but a mainline DQ? The nips would fucking lose it
>>739682158Oh fuck off it was probably amazing but they got cold feet and forced by SE to make something as safe as possibleJust like it happened with metaphor
>>739681385>>739681575There was even an interview with Yuji Horii in Feb 2025 where he reaffirms that Flames of Fate is still being worked on. I get the feeling Beyond Dreams has only been cobbled together within the last 12 months. They barely showed anything and there's not even a release window let alone a date for it. Fuck, they showed off concept art as they had so little in-engine stuff so showcase.FoF was a complete disaster and a waste of time & resources.
Why not just turn the dark game into a spinoff?Put it in the Builders world or something.
I'm not gonna lie, it looks really soulless. It feels like they're just phoning it and checking off boxes because they fucked up really badly or got afraid of what the reception would be trying to do something a little different from the past games with whatever Flames of Fate was going to end up being, but it's hard to say whether this is a good thing or not since we didn't see a single second of Flames of Fate.
>>739682478Soulless is dragon quest surname
>>739682478Can you really blame them after Yoshida's "no one wants final fantasy with stats and resistances" disaster?
>>739681873was probably more related to FF16 flooping.
>>739682398The people that made Builders are the in the Pokopia DLC mines.
>>739680668I don't know more of the stream than what OP is saying but at release when they mentioned it being darker I thought they just meant they were giving up on trying to maintain CERO A with things getting more strict rather than any actual change in tone from the previous games, were they actually trying to be a darker tone after all?
>>739680665It’s Japan. DQ is sacred to them. You don’t mess with it.
>zesty yn protag>trailer cuts to other characters right before showing whether the game is or isn't turn based>dragonball panderingI can't wait for this to be a disaster
>>739682209they saw DQ3 remake discourse and immediately hit the big red "DEFAULT MALE HERO" buttonHorii probably had a vision of japanese boomers mailing him pipe bombs and scrapped 4 years of work overnight
>>739682998>dragonball panderingBeen a thing since DQ8 over 10 years ago>What is tension mode
>>739681382I could have sworn that it was rumoured to be an ARPG. That was the initial plan for DQ9 as well
>>739680665Final Fantasy is a fucking disaster, better to stick with the tried and true formula than do experimental dogshit that ruins the series.
So is this cancellation going to spawn another rabid paranoid-schizophrenic shitting up the board for the next decades?
>>739683332Thankfully not because nobody on this board cares enough about DQ
>>739683332The only thing we ever got for XII's first variant was a logo, I doubt anyone got that attached to it.
>>739683332Nobody cares about DQ that much to bother. The only thing DQ ever gets is translation war threads.This won't be a snyder cut/FF versus deal
Didn't XVI sell like 3~4 million copies? That's hardly a bomb and better than most JRPGs. What's up with this board trying to force narratives that don't fit reality?
>>739684141Doomposting is so hot right now, get with the times
>>739684141I'm gay
>>739684141Flop.
>>739680578Bro even looked tired of this shit
>>739680668>>739681372>>739681398>what is V, VIII, & XI
>>739680578shame they had to play it safe after 16 and rebirth flopped
>>739684141Thats pretty terrible for an FF I think XV sold like 10 million copies if I remember so thats a huge drop from the last game in the series.
>>739683332yeah because retards like you are exactly the same people as retards on x who call everyone they don't like a nazi, instead you just think anyone who doesn't agree with you is the same guy gang stalking you too piss you off for some reason
>>739682229>>>739684352
>>739682642No, barry.
>>739684352None of those are the same type of GRIMDARK EDGY shit DQ12 was originally going for. Those game still DQ. You still had cute slimes running around and a bright world for the most part. DQ7 has some of the most tragic story moments in the series but it was still DQ.You look at whatever DQ12 was going to be originally and there's a reason Horii and co admitted it wouldn't be DQ and just redid everything from scratch
every franchise goes edgy and dark flopped hard in japan like digimon yokai watch new monzter hunter stories etc..
>FF16 flop saved the DQ franchiseWas this the Yoshi-P keikaku afterall?
>>739683332DQ fans generally aren't as retarded as nomurafags
>>739684417Underrated post
>>739684834ha
>>739683332If you haven't noticed they have been for awhile
>>739684834lol
>>73968441315 was a massive multimedia project with an enormous advertisement campaign and lived off a decade of false hype. It also dual released on xbox back when the brand was still relevant. Unfair comparison
>>739681575>>739682393I can't believed they pulled a Versus XIII again.
>>739680578when is the event?
>>739684930>D-Doesn't count!Everytime
>>739680578Man I wanted was more dragon quest monsters.Id even take remakes of 2. 1 was basically a tech demo so id pass on replaying that but 2 and the ds ones.
>>739684897>>739684921Nomurafags still think versus XIII was going to be good despite all the evidence showing that it never had a solid foundation despite several years od nomura fucking around. DQfags in this very thread are saying it's a good thing the original 12 was dropped. Clearly they are not as retarded
>>739682393Maybe if they are smart they will turn whatever FoF was into a spin-off title or something. Hard to believe they decided to just throw away 5 years of work.
>>739680665>a bunch of retards who want the same generic slopThat's why people buy these games. If they wanted a brave, experimental RPG, they wouldn't be playing DQ.
>>739684993>Everyone is hyping this Final fantasy XV game i must play it will be awesome>Its fucking garbage>Wow I am never going to play this final fantasy franchise again its so badCope and seethe barry
>>739684930>It's unfair to compare game 15 to game 16Okay, let's compare game 7 to game 16?Or game 8 to game 16?Or game 9 to game 16?Or game 10 to game 16?Or game 12 to game 16?Or game 13 to game 16?Or game 7r to game 16?Or game 7ri to game 16?
>>739685007They did announced a new DQM anon. It was in the the event
>>739684930Ok even if we go back to XIII it still sold 6 million so thats still more and that game came out in 2010 when the gaming audience was a lot smaller so objectively XVI is a pretty clear failure.
>>739685007>Man I wanted was more dragon quest monsters.They announced more Dragon Quest Monsters
>>739685089The main difference is not one of these came after 15 that killed the series. 7R and 7 Rebirth dont count
>>739680578i just watched the whole thing, basically that version failed and they reverted back to the whole 11 aesthetic, correct?
>>739684930Most of their sales were PS. I'd argue that PS5's user base leans way harder into gun and ball shit than PS4's did at the time though. Exclusivity deals are obviously suicide except for very specific cases even timed exclusivity since the word was out that FF16's story goes off the rails in the 2nd half by the time it was ported.
>>739685089>>739685129Not defending 16, it's not good but comparing it to 15's (also not good) release circumstances is unfair
lolhttps://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/739615662/
>anniunced 5 years ago>still no release dateI'm getting dlashbacks of metroid prime 4Hope they don't fuck it up thanks to development hell
>>739685230>after 15 that killed the series15 still counted as final fantasy game16 isn'tAlso, dunno why you pretend that 16 wasn't shilled as fuck by game journos and right wing ecelebs the second demo hit
>>739685301is actually amazing how SE is a master of development hell, first was ff14, kingdom heart 3 and now kingdom heart 4 and dragon quest 12 loli fear for ff17
>>739685230People want 13 remaster after how bad 16 was, think about it for the second...
>>739685379>right wing ecelebs
>>739685301I utterly despise modern Japanese development at this point.There is really no point in even feeling anything because the game is so damn far off.
>greenlits dq12fof into ff16 dq edition>years later, later ff16 flops, then stillbirth flops>ohshit.jpg>trash it & start from scratch>dq12bd is just fefw dq editionfuck kusoenix, especially their ethics department. hope it flops in japan since it's doa internationally
>>739685379>16 isn'tBy what metric.Also lmao comparing the shilling for 16 to 15 when 15 had fucking comic books, mangas, A FUCKING MOVIE, and tons of AAA trailers that had parts of the game that werent fucking in it lol.The last Story trailer literally LITERALLY was mostly of shit that wasnt in the game
>>739685470>modern Japanese developmentit's a near worldwide thing, not just japan
>>739685395Team Asano will get FF17. It'll be ahead of schedule, under budget, turn based, and HD-2D.
>>739680578I was looking forward to XII being mature and your choices mattering, I like the dream concept but they already did something similar in VI. Oh well.
>>739685453you had asmongoloid and other /v/ alt right icons praising it
>>739680665God forbid one series actually sticks to its roots instead of trying to reinvent itself and failing miserably. Especially among JRPGs.
>>739685541Have zero trust in them after bravely default 2 being insult to humanity itself.Octopath 0 was pretty bad too.
>>73968537915 released in such a shit state that calling it a game was more debatable than calling it an FF lmaomost of its legacy is buyer's remorse and women brained faggots eating up the sloppy bits of character writing because the game has nothing else going for it
>>739685582People are jealous of series that have balls to do that. They costantly attack pokemon for not being a 3d shoter like crysis too!
>>739685513to this day i haven’t played ff15 because of how utterly confusing it is to follow the story, i don’t like ff16 but at least i can say that it came on an acceptable timeline and, you know, i can experience the entire danm thing without going for multimedia.
>>739685541HD-2Dgod please no
>>739685669You can seethe and cry as much as you want, but 15 is still a final fantasy game. 16 is not...
>>739685558>asmongoloidIsn't that just because he was coming off of dickriding FF14 which was obviously a performance to punish the WoW devs for being arrogant retards during SL? I can't think of which other "right wing" e celebs even cared enough to talk about it.
>>739683280>Final Fantasy is a fucking disasterSee i dont get it, with FF seeing as every game is something different I dont to play or like them all.If I like XII but dont like XIII its fine, its not like I lose story or lore by not playing XIII as it its own shit. Thats why I dont mind XVI being DMC for babies, I dont like its fine, Maybe I will like XVII. But DQ is literally the same fucking shit every fucking time, why would I need to play 12 after playing 11 and why would I need to play 11 after playing 8 etc.
>>739674941>Haha they are all trunks, gohan copy paste>10 minutes later>WAAAAAAA WHY DOES HE HAVE A MOHAWK HE DOENS'T LOOK LIKE CLASSIC TORIYAMA
>>739685837>CLASSIC TORIYAMABut DQ12's MC is just android 16 with a sword.
>>739685483Kinda funny since everyone said the game they were purposing 5 years ago sounded like a bad idea.
>>739680665You’re a fucking retard look at what active combat has done to FF, literally one of the most respected and loved gaming franchises has been dogshit and declining for 20 years now. Changing DQ to active combat would have been the end and only a retard thinks it was a good idea.
>>739680578It was also a reaction to the resurgence of turn based combat. No doubt they restarted development because action combat was a focus and they decided against it after the recent successes of BG3, Atlus, and Sandfall.Looks like kino's back on the menu, turn based chads.
>>739683332You've already started
>>739680578>E33 saves Square Enix games from real time slopYou're welcome.
>>739685960Rebirth with its action combat reviewed better than 11 BTW
>we have Chrono Trigger at home
>>739685836>But DQ is literally the same fucking shit every fucking time,DQ is actually innovative but haters don't realize this
>People trying to defend FF15I guess people will try to be contrarian to anything
>>739685945It's funny how I expected her game's remake announcement
>>739685836Yeah except its not the 90s/2000s anymore where we got multiple mainline FF games every gen now you have to wait a whole decade to see what the next entry is so if you didn't like XVI tough may as well forget the series exist for the forseeable future.
>>739686027Lmao prove it
>>739685996i want turn combat, i don’t want every fucking jprg to become a parry simulator, thank you
>>739686023Right is in-game footage, left is concept art you faggot
>>739686119Boy just what when you find out most jrpgs have timed buttons to press
>>739684980S’over now.
>>739686003Remake series is the first time in 20 years SE has done good action combat in FF. The main issue is that even with that the original is still superior, I actually like the remake series but the reason it scored higher is because it’s fucking FF7 it’s literally one of the most loved games of all time. Absolutely nobody disagrees that if Remake would have just been a 1:1 complete remake of FF7 with same exact story and turn based combat it would have sold more than Remake and Rebirth put together.
Squareenix has literally no major releases for the foreseeable future.>muh KH4>muh FF7R3Neither of those games will sell 5 million copies. In fact they'll both be lucky to sell 2 million a piece.
>>739685885Barely
>>739681153>We saved Dragon Quest IXWas there a point when IX wan't going to be kino?
>>739686213>Absolutely nobody disagrees that if Remake would have just been a 1:1 complete remake of FF7 with same exact story and turn based combat it would have sold more than Remake and Rebirth put togetherIf this was Remake it would literally never be released. You fucking retards have never touched game dev and dont know how time consuming and soul crushing it is. Its a miracle we are even getting the trilogy as fast as they are making it
They can do whatever they want with it, but if it’s action combat I don’t think it’ll be good. I’m not a turn based purist, but dragon quest not being turn based is going to be weird
>>739684576Then why waste 5 years planning or developing a game they never actually had the balls to make? Pump out an 11 asset flip in two years and the seals would clap.
>>739686095youshi-p talked about how young people don’t know final fantasy because the games take so danm long to release and basically change gameplay with each new entry, is why pokemon is still a juggernaut to this day, yes the quality of the new pokemons games is abysmal but is CONSTANT, that why you have lad of 10-16 years old going crazy with pokemon like we used to do, quality be danmed.
>>739680578Don’t forget shitty action combat too. It was gonna be XVI but DQ fortunately the flopping of that game led them to restart development.
>>739686380And would you like it if it was like Pokemon for every franchise? FF XVI was meh but atleast it was a competent game even if average at best.Pokemon Legends or Scarlet are literally fucking unplayable garbage
>>739686123you don't understand the post, secondary
>>739685945and they're still following the woke checkboxes & trendchasing when most of it's playerbase are nostalgiafags. DQM4 for example
>>739686340if it's so time consuming why pad out Midgar into being an entire game full of made up extra nonsense?
>>739686213I think it would sell less honestly, remake’s sales are inflated by being sold on the ps4, ps5, and bunched with rebirth. Also people are retards, if it was turn based th>>739686229A good chunk would skip buying it themselves and watch someone else play it, for some reason turn based is poison to normies
>>739686301IX was going to have action combat before people sent death threats to Square Enix
>>739686340Remake and Rebirth are more bloated than a direct remake of FF7 would have been dumbass. They had everything to work with already, no extra designs, no extra story. You can’t say it still wouldn’t be out when what we have has like 100 new characters, expanded Midgar and even an entire new traversable area like Gongaga. Plus the additional Sephiroth fights and shit, plus creating an entirely new combat engine. I actually like the expansion of Midgar and further development of characters like Biggs, Wedge and Jessie but it’s disingenuous to say a full 1:1 remake wouldn’t even be out yet.
>>739686521I don’t know how I fucked up with that reply in the middle, my bad
>>739686380I mean you could argue the anthology approach FF takes was always a mistake. FF7 for example would be one of the most successful jrpg series in existence if it were its own franchise and could keep getting sequels so their approach has always been a double edged sword that kept the series fresh but also forced the most successful settings in the series to be forcibly abandoned, now that there is such massive delays between releases it works against the brand overall though imo.
>>739686521>turn based is poison to normiestrue, that’s why so many turn based games in the past 3 years have been bombing horribly…
>>739686123>Right is in-game footage, left is concept artAnd?
Are the DQ remakes worth playing?
>>739686821If you’re fine with grinding, maybe.
>>739686521You’re an idiot a 1:1 remake would have sold 20 mil easy as the gaming world would have shit their pants and it would have been more accessible for retards because it’s easier to get into. Even longtime fans had to ease into wrapping their heads around what we ended up getting and E33 being a major hit shows that people don’t give a fuck about an RPG having turn based combat. SE fucked up like they have been fucking up FF for decades at this point, character designs aside it’s a blessing they realized they were making a mistake changing DQ and changed their minds.
>>739686584But they were made one by one, imagine if they released it all at the same time. minimum 15 year dev length
>>739686546>before people sent death threats to Square EnixBased
>>739686634the mistake was “every FF takes an entire childhood to release AND they all play and feel completely differently from each other”that’s just a surefire way to ensure nobody gets attached to your franchisesure FF has always innovated more than DQ for example but I through X all share a pretty similar DNA.
>>739686906Put the time and effort into finishing highschool anon
>>739686857Did they bring vanilla pudding or an orange cup today, Boco?
>>739686868And you are a fucking idiot instead, 3 games 3x $60>inb4 but Rebirth sold lessI bet it sold like 10% less at most and its release and re-release for switch 2 now also boosted the sales of remake. And the same will happen with the third game which even better will release for Switch 2 and PC together with PS5. Sales boost for Remake and Rebirth then, add some bundles for $100 with all of them or something and voila free fucking money.This Remake trilogy is one of the things Square actually didnt fuck up.
SAY HIS NAME
>>739686821Only 7 is good, 3 and 1-2 are censored but there are mods that uncensor the game, i play the game in french to duck the amerimutt censorship
>>739686508>And would you like it if it was like Pokemon for every franchise? FF XVI was meh but atleast it was a competent game even if average at best.My argument was that SE needs to streamline FF game development if they don’t want the series to die or become a old man thing, just think of why you love FF, when we were kid from 1997 to 2001 we got some of the best FF in the series, most FF fans of today come from that circle, and quality aside, the main thing was that if you were a fan you COULD expect a new release every 2 year at minimum, now a days every FF game could take 5 or 6 years AT MINIMUN, you cant realistically forge childhood memories with this release schedule and them SE wonder why people don’t like FF anymore>Pokemon Legends or Scarlet are literally fucking unplayable garbageThey are garbage but they release at least in a constant manner to keep you hook on the franchise and more than anything helps the younger generation to look forward to future games imagine if after getting ff15 we would have gotten a 2D-HD remake off 1 and some ff spin off with remake ff7 before 16, a lot more young people will be playing 16 and rebirth because they are familiar to the franchise, they know shiva,cloud,Bahamut,etc. so they have a base from which they can enter.
>>739687143Not him and not invested in this argument but remake and rebirth sold noticeably less than XVI which wasn’t exactly a slam dunk either.
>>739686748Which games are you referring to? Because the only ones I know of are popular for story reasons not because of gameplay, such as bg3. I never see anyone talk about the gameplay of games like these >>739686868That’s what it was advertised as and it still failed to hit 20 million despite being sold to people three times. I feel like e33 is also a good example of people being retarded and not liking turn based combat, it was a major game talked about constantly, and it was never the combat people talked about. It was always the story and characters which hard carried it for normies.
>>739687187Interesting. I heard 7 was the most butchered one.
>>739687032They?
>>739687210>remake and rebirth sold noticeably less than XVINo they didnt lmao
>>739680668Dragon quest already has dark moments in it anyways
>>739687217>I never see anyone talk about the gameplay of games like thesethat’s because you’re retardedthere are bg3 build guides with millions of viewsif they were one popular cuz of story or romance than dos2 which has barely any of that wouldn’t have sold 10 million units and clearly the “it’s the story people care about” theory doesn’t hold given that square has doubled down on story and spectacle at the expense of gameplay and there games have not been successful.
>>739687187>1+2 censoredHoly fuck are you retarded or something? There was no Body Type bullshit or anything in either of those.
I'm not that crazy about traditional turn based JRPGs, but I played 8 and 11. Should I try another dragon quest, or am I pretty much squared up?I figured I would pirate 7 reimagined since it's new, but it sounds like people don't like it?
>>739687143lmao fucking “don’t talk shit about the billion dollar company!” anon over here. You don’t need to go into defensive mode, I actually like the remakes despite the differences and I will be buying Part 3 day one, but only a blind idiot would look at the numbers and not be able to realize that they fucked up. I’m glad it’s at least a moderate success, but don’t kid yourself that it’s only a fraction of what it could have been had they done a faithful 1:1 remake. 20 mil copies sold the year it released would have been guaranteed, and with Rebirth now the remake series is at what? 10 mil? 12 mil? The drop off between Remake and Rebirth shows that not all OG fans were on board with it and it makes sense considering the changes. If Part 3 comes out and sells 10 copies, one of those will be me buying it day 1 but I’m not a dumb retard that’s going to pretend SE hasn’t horribly mismanaged their flagship franchise.
>>739687337>and there games have not been successfulBy what metric are they not succesful tho, retarded Square expectations? Because the main guy behind the Remake Trilogy from what I heard is getting a promotion at Square so he must be doing something right
>>739687465I'd suggest the PS2 version of 5. It's fan translated and on the usual places. After 8, I played that and deeply enjoyed it. I understood why it became a centerpiece in the Jap consciousness.
>>739687512I don’t think they turn a profit. Maybe XVI because yoshida is good at keeping budgets low, but not by much.Also yes, Square’s expectations are important to keep in mind, even if they’re unrealistic. They want to play in the AAA space and expect those kinds of ridiculous numbers, and they’re not getting them.
>>739687465If you liked those two you'll probably enjoy the rest of the series well enough. 7 is a bit contentious from the start because of its really slow pace and the remake cuts a lot of stuff without really tightening the experience, can't say I'd recommend any version of 7 if you aren't a big RPG guy from the start. 3, 4, or 5 are probably good enough choices to go to next (they're also significantly shorter), have a look at each and see which one appeals to you. Any version is fine.
>>739687480I am not talking of it being faithful or not, even if it was 1:1 Splitting it into 3 parts is better for them because they have some cash flowing and they can keep selling the games and bundles up to part 3 release. If it was one game be it faithful or with time jannies they'd have to waste basically a console generation cycle to develop this shit
only thing worlders argue numberfagging as a way to justify anythingi dont care how much shekles goldberstein made
>>739687465>I figured I would pirate 7 reimagined since it's new, but it sounds like people don't like it?There is a demo if you want to try it out and it's fairly long since it does the prologue + first island arc.7 Reimagined is different from the OG in the sense that the latter had a much longer prologue (to hammer down the fact the MC's island is literally the sole island in the world) with zero monsters. Some island arcs were removed while newer ones were introduced in this new version.
>>739687512that's because despite how much 16fags seethe about better games, 7 rebirth was a big success
So I was right. It's pretty obvious now that it wasn't just a rumor and they were actually going to push for western action combat but had to reverse course after seeing 15 and 16 fail and e33 succeed. I guess it's a good thing but now we have to wait like 5 years for XII with a really weird looking MC. At least DQM looks cool and this time it will actually have english subtitles. I'm still pissed they released the og DQM on switch or whatever but only in japanese.
>>739687217>that’s what it was advertised asYes and then reviews came out and people realized it was different and outsiders looking in saw vitriolic response from some longtime fans to the new direction. If you’ve never played it and you’re interested but then you see OG fans saying it’s shit you’re much less likely to try it out. And for E33 well it’s the same as golden age FF isn’t it? Nobody ever really gave a fuck about the combat, it was always the setting, characters, story, music etc and the combat was always just fine but it never got in the way. When they switch to focusing on active combat then all of a sudden the combat becomes much more important to the overall game and you’re forced to engage with all sorts of active mechanics that make it less accessible and it takes away from the classic FF identity. In the old games if you didn’t want to engage with mechanics, you could always just grind bigger numbers or spam cool summons to win. FF7 has the cool materia system, but in general it is easy as fuck you can pretty much mash attack and beat the game but nobody gave a fuck and it’s still one of the most renowned games of all time because nobody ever gave a fuck about turn based combat it was just retarded SE corpos that wanted to be at the forefront of innovation instead of realizing the true strengths of their franchise that everyone loved.
>>739687858the thing nobody mentions about E33 is that its budget was only like 20 million. It achieved 7 Remake levels of presentation with about 10x less money. And so when it sells 2 million more than remake it’s even more impressive.
>>739686301IX is the best dragon quest game, thoughever.
>>739687812>Fucking DQ game is turn based>Look look it's E33's influenceKys, E33 shill.
>>739687480Sequels as a rule do less. It's an exception when they do better, and that's how we understand blockbuster franchises. Their "2" is when they took off, not their "1." We've gradually started confusing that mechanic to apply to all works. >The second will do better because... because it just will!Not necessarily.
>>739680578The suits demanded a "dark and serious" with "no turn base, action only" DQ game which is a complete disaster aka it is a good decision to drop that shit, bro.
>>739688027Even if we ignore E33. It is a huge turnbased victory.
>>739688027It is probably more a BG3 influence if anything because Horii is known to be a huge wrpg fan.
>>739688027They were trying to make it an action game before E33 mogged all of Japan
>>739680665You're welcome. We want Dragon Quest, we don't want generic western grimdark slop. Dragon Quest is one of the few series that has the balls to stay true to what works and what people love about the games instead of chasing trends like other games that are a fucking mess because of it.Fuck anyone that wants Dragon Quest to change and fuck you.
>>739688027You are fucking retarded. I've played almost all of them and 11 is the best jrpg to come out in the past 10 years. They got reamed by their jap fanbase for teasing western garbage action combat and they probably thought they'd take it lying down and accept it if the dev team went radio silent. After seeing all action combat jrpgs flop and BG3 + E33 explode it's fucking obvious it slapped some sense into them. Denying it is just going full fucking retard
I really liked Dragon Quest Monsters Jokers 2, played that game all the time as a child.How was Jokers 3? Can we expect a translation?
>>739688027look i dislike E33, but is undeniable one of the best jrpg of the last decade, the axions fights alone shit on everything ff16 tried to do
>>739680665After seeing franchises like Final Fantasy and Zelda get raped in trying to win western mass appeal, it's refreshing to see a Japanese cornerstone franchise stick to its roots. Too bad the new protag design is ugly as fuck.
>>739680665>You want chocolate vanilla ice cream??>Yeah!!!>Ok, what if we add pickle slices and ground pepper??>Uhhh....>COME ON WHY DONT YOU LIKE CHANGE???
>>739682393Or maybe they just decided to change direction when they realized that DQ12 is likely going to be the last piece of art ever produced with direct contributions by Toriyama and Sugiyama, two of his closest friends and 2/3rds of the heart and soul of DQ as a franchise, and as a result Horii wanted to make sure that the game is a fitting send-off and tribute to his lifelong collaborators?Could you imagine how tragic it would have been given the context if DQ12 came out and was dogshit? By circumstance DQ12's cultural relevancy skyrocketed in significance and I think Horii knows, out of respect for his friends he collaborated with for an entire lifetime that he can't fuck it up.
Honestly probably the literal only smart thing this company has done in 5 years.
What's funny is that the original DQ12 will be a "what if" situation forever. Tales will be told of the original game that was actually good instead of being zoomerslop.
>>739688273Uh oh, the Europeans are going to get mad at you about mentioning food. Before they die of heat stroke in 80F weather.
>>739687694So selling 20 million copies of a 1:1 remake at $60 is less money than selling 7 million copies of a complete overhaul that only covers the intro and then 3 million copies of its sequel? I understand spread out cash flow, but selling one 20 million copies of one game is better than selling 12 million copies total spread out over a trilogy. I don’t know why you think it would have taken so long to do a 1:1 remake, it would have taken them just as long as they spent on Part 1 and brought FF back into the limelight. It could have saved XVI by showing them what people actually want from FF after the XV dumpster fire too.
>>739687812What makes you think flames of fate was an action game? We never saw any of it
>>739684937No, Versus got fucked over because Squeenix needed all hands on deck to save FFXVI, and once that was accomplished, their retarded management at the time blamed Nomura for why no progress had been made on Versus.This seems more like what happened with DQIX's development.
>>739688274I’m interested in the new music. I know Sugiyama had an assistant he’s been training his whole life so hopefully it’s up to par. I think the Bird Studio people have absolutely shit designs when it’s not Toriyama doing them though (just look at any Dragon Ball spinoff slop designs)
>>739684401Why is that a shame? Why do you want Dragon Quest of all franchises to innovate?
>>739688382*FFXIV, not XVI
>>739688349There's no way you're a dragon quest fan if you didn't lose your shit over the action combat talk 5 years ago.
>>739687763If you didn't care about numbers, you wouldn't be on the most popular English speaking imageboard.
>>739688349A rumor. There’s also precedent because IX was going to be an action rpg too.
>>739680578AI deleted the codebase when they were forced to use it without understanding how.
>>739688102Yes which is why it’s retarded they decided to handle the 7 remake this way, it should have been 1:1 and finished. More sales which is more money, new audience introduced to golden age FF from hype and the possibility to realize that gamers as a whole don’t ignore good games strictly because they’re turn based.
>>739680578>or maybe it was a reaction to FFXVI bombing?FFXVI may have redeemed itself a tiny bit if true. It's still the worst FF game though.
>>739684576>you look at 12Show me.
>>739688349>That in itself was a new challenge, but with “Dragon Quest XII” we are taking it even further. I’ve already said it, but I’ll say it again. First of all, the command battles of the past will be completely redesigned. How we will do it is still a secret, but we have already made a prototype, and while playing the game with the staff, we are convinced that it will be a lot of fun.
>>739688252>E33>JRPG*Ahem* It's an "F" RPG.
>bruh we questin this dragon ahh fr fr :skull:
>>739688346You 1:1 fags are just so delusional and childish that it's not even worth having a conversation with you. Square-Enix messed up by making huge changes to the plot and padding it with cheap assets from Malaysia. They could NOT have done a proper remake in one game without it looking like DQ7 Reimagined.
>>739688469I honestly wouldn't have a problem with a 7R/Lightning Returns type of hybrid system. But a full-blown action system would feel more like a spinoff than a mainline game.
>>739685089>>739685230Rebirth also flopped.
>>739688551I’m just angry the X and XIII team was stuck making XIII sequels for a decade, and now they’re stuck making VII remakes for a decade. Just make a new FF, please!
>>739687858The problem is that ff7 didn’t really do great numbers at launch for when was being advertised as a remake of one of the greatest rpgs ever, at launch the time jannies information wouldn’t have spread that much so it shouldn’t have effects sakes that much, esp preorders. When it was though of as a faithful remake it sold around what ff16 did, and if it starts off like that I don’t think it would have done extremely well. As per turn based combat I agree, you can have fun with ff7 but normies don’t bother and just see it as in the way, because they’re retarded, they see turn based combat, and don’t engage with it. I feel like we agree but I’m not good at wording my point
>>739688349The fact that the entire game got thrown in the shredder shows it must have been completely different from any Dragon Quest before it and unsalvagable.
>>739688589Command battles will be redesigned, not scrapped or replaced or discarded.
>>739688648>But a full-blown action system would feel more like a spinoff than a mainline game.Still waiting for Dragon Quest Origin: Stranger of Alefgard.
>>739688624I think his face is fine. It’s the clothes that seem weird.
>>739688624
>>739688679It was just too late. A FF7 remake would have broke records on the PS3 in 2007, but everyone who cared then was old and jaded by the time we got it
>>739680665The only people that wants change are those who never love it in the first place
>>739688701SE also considered XVI to be an RPG so I wouldn’t exactly take their word on it just being “redesigned”
>>739688802dude slimes lmao
>>739688701>make that announcement at the height of every jrpg switching to action combat>hurr they were just going to "redesign" the command battles "of the past"
>>739686821V PS2 is good
>>739688767Those dark circles around the eyes ruin itFucking why would they do that
>>739688578The original trailer. That's the only proof original DQ12 ever existed outside of Horii talking about how the plot was going to be all the way back when it was originally going to be flames. He said he it was planned out from the starthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXgerPIXJf4BTW official SE account privated the video and pretty much nuked all mention of original DQ12
>>739688837SE isnt in charge of DQ and never was
>>739688896idkI think it’s just a late toriyama thing though pretty much every art of his before he died had those style of eyescould also be a holdover from the more “dark” earlier version
>>739688767lol no.
>>739684352Why leave out 7, which was the darkest by far?
>>739688551FF7 is a big enough game that splitting it up into more manageable parts was the right thing to do. I think the actual mistake they made with the remakes was just waiting too long to make them. These games would have had at least double the sales if they were made in the 7th gen, especially after all the hype for that tech demo. But now a lot of the people nostalgic for FF7 have aged out of gaming or lost interest over the years. And the new players coming in don't care about Final Fantasy, outside of maybe XIV, due to changing tastes and Square's self-sabotaging idiocy in the 2010s.
>>739688984I dont remember too many islands being very dark.>t. played 3DS
>>739688874>at the height of every jrpg switching to action combat>literally only FFFFaggots really dont play anything else
>>739688945I mean the fact that 5 years had passed without even a single screenshot or even a scrap of concept art shows that things were going BADLY.>>739689015Sorry, but no. I don’t think there’s any good excuse for stretching Midgar from 3 hours to 30.
>>739684930>It also dual released on xbox back when the brand was still relevantxbox became completely irrelevant after the xbone came out, was an underpowered piece of shit, and had no worthwhile exclusives.FF13 for 360 was a big deal because PS3 was so clearly losing to 360 that they "betrayed" sony to make it.absolutely fucking no one cared about FF15 being on xbone. by that point the entire xbox brand was so niche and so far removed from japan that whenever a japanese game released on it, it was obviously because microsoft paid to have it ported.
>>739689015>I think the actual mistake they made with the remakes was just waiting too long to make themCompletely gloss over the fact that its not a fucking remake, but a mockery to what the original game is.There's a reason why Rebirth sold less than half of Remake.
My entire friend group grew up playing final fantasy. The only person I know who played the FF7 remakes was a girl who never played the original 7 and only watched all the cutscenes on youtube and gushes over cloud and aerith ships all day. This is the type of person you're arguing with when FF7R is brought up, just keep that in mind.
>>739688479do you think people use 4chan because it's "popular"holy brown tourist go back
>>739689132Rebirth is a very strange game, it’s like they want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to the time janny stuff. I’d rather they either make a faithful remake or go completely wild with a new anthology game. This in between approach is just bizarre.
>>739689132>There's a reason why Rebirth sold less than half of Remake.Headcanon. And with switch 2 release even more so
>>7396805782 key members of the project died so we shouldn't be surprised the direction meandered and the project was restarted
>DID>NOT>MEET>SALES>EXPECTATIONS
>>739688896Because it's plot relevant, he's a snoozer. Quit bitching that it's not generic enough for you.His plain grey tshirt and yellow pants are fucking awful, however.
>>739689047When people talk about dark stuff in 7 its mostly just the couple of towns you can't actually save
>>739689280>Headcanonpost sales then
I've only beaten the first one on gbc, which one should I play next
>>739680578Square Enix were obsessed with turning the franchise that sells a guaranteed 3 millions in japan and >1 million worldwide into something that sells 10 millions worldwide and "i don't give a fuck" sales in japan. There was some internal pushback in the company because you could end up with a series that permanently bombs in japan and worldwide, and some counter pushback that Dragon Quest, much like Final Fantasy, is too big to fail, and that they really need that "modern audience".The HD version of Dragon Quest XI was the first step. Sony paid for Square Enix to no longer keep the DQ franchise the retro safe option for nostalgic japanese gamers that Nintendo toasters can run, in part holding delusions that these nostalgic japanese gamers would flock to the PS4. Sony actually did the same for Monster Hunter 5. Square still insisted on the 3DS version, and later on downporting that HD version to Switch. These versions outsold the PS4 version by a 4:1 ratio.For whatever reason, Square Enix didn't get the hint. They got started modernizing Final Fantasy and then wanted to double down with Dragon Quest.Meanwhile Romancing SaGa 2 remakes are selling 114k on launch, Trials of Mana remake sold 150k on launch, those franchises are still alive in some way while the likes of Forspoken and Final Fantasy XVI are selling less and less and getting similar numbers. Atlus manages turn-based RPG releases that break 1 million sales regularly, Xenoblade series and Expedition 33 is basically the results Square Enix wanted but with turn based combat.Final Fantasy is now a series that no longer appeals to anyone, and most players are boomers, and they realized they were setting Dragon Quest on the same path to destruction with no guaranteed sales, and weren't in a place to quite afford that with two of the creatives now dead. Unlike the Action RPG version of Dragon Quest XI they couldn't repurpose the game as another thing like Cross Treasure DS.
>>739688896Protag has constant nightmares and the game involves a dream world somehow It'll probably tie into 6 (and 4 and 5) like 11 did for 1-3
>>739689223yep, and combined with the busywork and fucking around, it just sucks and is something I'd never consider returning to.I bought, played and enjoyed the oblivion remaster and that was just a big shell over the original game. a more faithful FF7 remake with modern graphics and even a different battle system would have gone over perfectly fine with me. well, assuming it released in one fucking part, i guess. god damnit.
>>739689132For a company that never shuts up about their sales milestones, it's kind of revealing how tight lipped they've been about Rebirth. Not even a Remake + Rebirth combined update.
>>739689215What? You think people use it for its insightful, intelligent, and imaginative posting community?
>>739689402Lets wait a couple of weeks until it launches shall we
>>739689408DQ3, SNES version
>>739689223because rebirth was so fucking expensive that they needed the money from both original fans and new fans, so they did the most cowardly possible thing, which was nothing, we don’t remake the game 100% faithfully and we don’t do new things, we just stood in the middle.
>>739689451and how much news have we received about part 3 in the last 2 years?
>>739689514Why snes version? I dont mind a smaller fov
>>739680578god 12 is gonna suck. i hate the MC. it's part of why i didn't fucking buy the last one.
This franchise is 40 years old and 10 of those years have been spent developing DQ12
>>739689118>FF13 for 360 was a big deal because PS3 was so clearly losing to 360 that they "betrayed" sony to make it.Maybe that was some fanboys' takeaway, but the decision to make an Xbox version forced them to cut and downgrade a bunch of content just to make it fit on "only" four discs. It was a shit game regardless, but it's fair to criticize something that made it even shittier.
>>739689547Unless you're playing on an actual gameboy the only notable difference is the GBC version added mini medal collecting and buffed a couple bosses a little more than the SNES version already did
>>739689547snes games look and sound greatdon't deprive yourself
>>739688248Feel free to reply to my post. :)
>>739689223The Whispers are indeed bizarre. Who is this plot element for? Literally no one likes it. It feels like a joke that got lost in translation, and was taken 100% seriously by the Japanese writing team. Hamauzu at least gave them some kino music I guess??
>>739689448the whole>oh…ooh…is it gonna be different…is something gonna change…?>SIKE it’s exactly the same as the original games!shtick was infuriating especially since the game pulled it like 10 times.it’s like they knew the remake changes were unpopular and wanted to bait old fans with it. I imagine it just confused new players.
>>739689489You think the low install base of switch 2 is going to move large numbers
>>739689598you could put every game franchise over 25 years old in a hat and basically guarantee something similar for the one you pull outGTAV was 2013 and the original GTA was 1997.almost half it's existence has been GTA V
>>739689626even the soundtrack is a downgrade from XIII imoit seems like they immediately got bored of the whispers and are now doing multiverse shit? who knows.
>>739689667exactly. old fans were confused or actively upset. new players were like "why doesn't anyone ever mention this when talking about FF7? isn't this a remake?"just brainlet "i must play new game" normalfags can say they enjoyed the game
>>739689680Dunno but i wouldnt be surprised if they do announce a new milestone then.Sorry but i dont believe a game with a 90+ mc and very positive word of mouth didnt sell well
>>739687512>By what metric are they not succesful thoare you familiar with what % of SE's profit is from MMO's?
>>739689843what milestones have they announced before nowlike getting blood out of a fucking stone
funnily enough, the one thing everyone praises XVI for, the eikon fights, were designed by Platinum games.if Square was smart they’d hire Larian to design the turn based combat for FFXVII
The face I can deal with. These fucking leg protrusions I can't. Please god get rid of them for the full release.
>>739689843>Sorry but i dont believe a game with a 90+ mc and very positive word of mouth So Mixtape sold well?
>>739689843>Sorry but i dont believe a game with a 90+ mc and very positive word of mouth didnt sell wellsounds like headcanon
>>739680578I think they saw FF16 and FF7 remake/rebirth as complete duds and Horii decided to lean into what hes good at, light fairytales japanified with the cozy towns and cozy music
>>739689843The user reviews for Rebirth have been worse than Remake for PSN and Steam though. The word of mouth has been mostly negative.
>>739689997Who
>>739689923SE has Kawazu who demolishes all westoid combat systems and they dont use him
>>739689732are we in hell?
>>739689923a wrpg and jrpg are like comparing oranges to bananas, to complete different things, if anything you have the frenchies over there
How do we stop SE from announcing titles when they're basically on a "2 pieces on concept art and a title" stage?
>>739689949Yeah this is odd, I thought it was like, baggy Arabian pants, but the way they go back in almost looks like he has Fat guy thighs
>>739689773XIII and VIIR I would consider different styles of music, and tastes vary on that. Yes, Hamauzu poured his soul into XIII, but VIIR has excellent work as well, and not just from him. Shima is a genius.
>>739689886less than half the % revenue generated from gacha
>>7396893837 had so many genocides
>>739689997rent free
>>739690094It looks like he took a fat smelly dump down each leg. It's so ugly
>>739689923Its a bit of a copout to hire platinum for your arpg at this point imo, as is directly copying souls
>>739689923Platinum consulted they didn't full out design them. Same as how the KH team wasn't intimately involved in development either.
>>739690157If you dream too long in the game, you shit yourself.
>>739689598Dragon Quest 11 came out in 2018 retard
>>739690113idk, it sounds overly produced, and a lot of the instruments sound fake in a bad way.I think Uematsu was referring to Rebirth when he was talking about “cinematic game music” a few years ago.But it is just different taste at the end of the day.
>>739690091We probably can't, I imagine the announcements are primarly for investors so they don't go "uh are you guys gonna make some money or what". Much easier than un-fucking their dev cycles.
>>739687948it did save a lot with cheap physics and collision boxes, but I don't blame them because that doesn't matter much except the 2 parkour minigames
>>739690091I'm glad we get trailers years in advance so we can see situations exactly like this where games go through extreme radical redesigns over the years. That mystery is part of the hype cycle and video game culture.
>>739690052I don’t like the reliance on quick time events, but hey ig it sold well so who am I to argue.They have the dofus guy ig, but cmon man Larian’s lead combat designer is literally a FF Tactics fanboy. And not to be that guy but adding some wrpg elements to jrpgs could honestly improve the genre a lot, same with adding jrpg elements to wrpgs.
>>7396903187R definitely has less organic instrumentation. I'm not sure if that was a bugetary consideration or an artistic one. Either way, I like the compositions.
>>739690021Thought you were shit posting but damn. You would think that the sequel would be higher considering the people who didn't like Part 1 aren't going to return for Part 2.
>>739689429>Sony paid for Square Enix to no longer keep the DQ franchise the retro safe option for nostalgic japanese gamers that Nintendo toasters can runOr they simply had no faith in a Nintendo home console after the Wii U flopped and the Switch came too late in XI's development for them to pivot. Not everything is a conspiracy.
>>739688248There's a fan translation of 3. It's more in line with other modern monster games than Jokers 1-2. I enjoyed it for what it was, but you can ride your monsters and create absolutely overpowered monsters early on and make the game trivial. I managed to make a 2x attack tension drainer, so I would always attack with 100 tension and the enemy would be at -50 or -100 tension so the game was a complete stomp and I never needed to do any synthesis past the 2nd area.
>>739680578It's probably because Toriyama died. Notice the character design looks almost nothing like Dragon Ball anymore.
Horii is gonna die in 2 years and the game will be in dev hell again.Never ever
>>739690702That's the direction his modern artstyle was headed the last thing he made was Daima and it looked different from typical Dragon Ball.
>>739690523I think a lot of it is that games today need to have a million mediocre tracks instead of like 50 really good tracks. FFXIII soundtrack is only 80 songs while something like BG3 is in the 400 range. Though honestly even then the instruments in BG3 are a LOT more organic sounding despite also being synthetic for most tracks.
>>739690091Soon in the Age of AI you won't even need to work on concept art or a titleyou can just generate a new trailer with a new title just 30 minutes before an investor meeting
>>739680578It was clearly an unmitigated disaster and a reaction to ff xvi and stillbirth flopping. The moment horii mentioned the combat was not going to be like previous games was the tipping point as if the threat of making dragon may cry wasn't alienating enough, and to top it all off it's clear it's no longer playstation exclusive like it originally was going to. Christmas came early
>>739690863Weren’t they gonna use AI for DQXII? Wonder how that’s going.
>>739689923If they were smart they’d releases a game focusing on eikon fights, but they aren’t
Did they seriously fucking add Donte to Dragon Quest?
>>739680578This will be the first DQ game where the protagonist doesn't look like Goku, Bulma or Trunks.
>>739690906
>>739690629absolute niggercattle opinions there jesus christ. Remake is a 6/10 and Rebirth is a 9.5
>>739688837XVI is explicitly not a "command battle" game The interviews for it went so far as to describe it as discarding command action in favor just being a full action game
>>739690828I wouldn't call 7R's tracks mediocre, but you have a point about the sheer scale of the production overwhelming the possibility for real or quality instrumentation. 7R, part one alone has like... nearly 200 fucking songs of wildly different genres. It's insane. Imagine chaining Uematsu to a desk and forcing him to make that.
>>739691025rebirth is infinitely worse than remake
>>739690786Horii will never die
Isn't it because everyone involved with the initial drafts died?
>>739690629Rebirth was full of dei and faggot npcs everywhere. The game is ugly as shit outside of main character models and a few set pieces, and it goes on for far too long for basically nothing to happen story wise.Remake was a good length for the combat system, but the patience of all of the other nonsense wore thin with Rebirth.
>>739680578this is the Elder Scrolls VI announcement equivalent in Japanese terms
here's your Dragon Quest™ protagonist bro
>>739691237They had a snarky presentation where they went “did we…? ;)” to the accusation of >you removed the RPG from my ARPGand then the game releases and there’s no RPG mechanics aside from literally useless level and gear upgrades that are there just for aesthetic purposes. lol
>>739691375>outside the main character modelsIn cutscenes maybe, they look fucking terrible on the overworld
I fucking told you all a "dark" DQ was an idea brought up by SE's upper crusts to appeal to the west, and Hori was just a yes man for the job. Once they realized how bad of an idea it was they changed gears
>>739690651That's a shame, the considerably high difficulty (for a dragon quest game) was a pretty big part of its appeal for me.That and the charming worldbuilding and characters.
>>739691442Not brown enough.
>>739691583what if that was just some shitty league misunderstanding over the fact the next DQM was called dark prince
>>739691375they're faithful to the original game where every character was ugly and dei
>>739691535Sad thing is, the game would have been alot better if they just went full action instead of trying to shoehorn rpg mechanics in that serve no purpose anyway thanks to level scaling.
>>739691583they realized that dark fantasy in japanese literature is just rape everywhere
>>739691583Horii is a sweetheart but I could see him saying "look, we took 20 bucks and a ham sandwich, made DQ monsters 3, and it made about as much money as FF7rebirth which cost a trillion dollars and 80 years of development, were gonna do DQ the Horii way"
>>739688248Not as good as the 3DS remake of Monsters 2 imo but its fine. I mostly just didn't like the world design it's a bunch of floating islands and shit to accommodate the monster riding gimmick.
>>739691793Whatever helps you cope. Either way the verison they promised doesn't exist anymore, and we're all better for it
>>739691583it's a mistake to assume that these aging game devs aren't just as delusional as the aging execs
>>739691578Oof. Part 3 is going to be using UE4 too and it's going to be even worse thanks to rushing it out due to part 2 flopping.
>>739682746When the original 12 was announced, they specifically said it would be a darker, more mature game where your choices would matter.
>>739691583Honestly its just surprising at this point Square Enix actually had a moment of clarity to backtrack, usually they'd just keep trucking despite everyone knowing its a bad idea.
Can you imagine a dark and edgy DQ with the shitpost localizations this series gets?
>>739691578What potato PCs are you guys playing these games on and then passing off as the standard? My game looked nothing like this.
>>739692090DQ but it's set in modern london and the brown people are just in-universe monsters
>>739692062I hope they don’t change that, choices mattering is almost always cool
>>739692090Even a dark DQ would almost certainly still have goofy shit
The hair is dumb but whatever, need to see more of the game.More interested in the monsters game announcement.
>>739680578The rework probably happened 2 years ago when the former studio head Yu Miyake got moved over aka demoted to the smartphone division and Yosuke Saito took overNow the real question is what is being considered as an "overhaul"? The public had no idea what 12 was besides a logo and one cryptic statement about gameplay. We saw nothing of the world, character designs, and music. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that they're still using a lot of the stuff made for Flames of Fate but it's being repurposed for Beyond Dreams. The practical reason for this is Toriyama and Sugiyama are fucking dead. Music can be done years in advance but considering game dev timelines, I have a feeling they're essentially stuck with the stuff they made originally for FoF. It's not that they're throwing everything out from scratch and starting over like Metroid Prime 4 but the concept of the game has shifted back to what DQ as a brand entails. Now that they've given the public an actual first look, they're pretty much locked in
>>739692062>>739692178>lol what if DQ was the Witcher, because The Witcher has mass appeal outside of JapanYeah, fuck that.
>>739692090Youse saved us. Me dotter waz aboot tae be raeped.
>>739692090>the shitpost localizations this series getsThat Elliot game appears to have a good translation and even got a good dub. From the demo to judge. Why does Dragon Quest have to get these super weirdo translations and the weirdo dubs where everyone are speaking like verbose retards?
>>739684413FF15 is aggregate. Its week 1 sales werent THAT good.
>>739692205>this village kidnaps children and uses the young girls as sex slaves>also we found this cool ruby that makes everyone narcoleptic, welcome to SLEEPYPEEPYSNOOZEBURG!
>>739691583>Hori was just a yes man for the jobHe's probably the reason it got scrapped they would've gone ahead with it unless he was totally against it.
>>739691025highly ironic post
>>739692408100% the characters we have are the ones they designed for the dark "Flames of Fate" version of the game, but after Toriyama died they had to stick with them because they had no-one else to fiddle rework it. So now we're left with characters that don't really fit the world they're in now
>>739680665fpbp
>>739684576>None of those are the same type of GRIMDARK EDGY shit DQ12 was originally going for.I don't know why retards continually talk about XII like they know what it was going to be.
>>739692408You can take an edgy enemy model and sand it down with a cartoon filter in like fifty minutes. They didn't necessarily throw EVERYTHING out. XII is destined to be a schizo game, though. This type of project never ends well.
>>739682879DQ3 Remake was them fucking with DQ and no one gave a shit.
>>739682158>Because I don't see the DQ11 team taking 5 years to land on this absolute garbage of a design.Luminary looked way worse dood
>>739690042probably
>>739682393>Fuck, they showed off concept art as they had so little in-engine stuff so showcase.Are you new or something?They always show original character art/
>>739692540If that line of thinking were to be believed, the "dark and edgy" idea was his idea to begin with. Just admit the SE execs were the ones who thought up of everything, and once things weren't going as they wanted they shifted gears hard.
grimdark wouldve been 100x more interesting than dqxi again but with ugly characters
>>739692764I never got the hate for him. Is it really necessary for EVERY DQ protag to have Goku hair?
>>739685040Happens all the timeFor whatever reason Capcom is like the only dev I'm aware of that has a big track record for turning dropped ideas into new titles instead. Like half of their PS1/PS2/GC output was "this was almost RE4 but we changed our minds"
>>739692881He looks fucking lame man. I know XI was your first game but he just looks lame.
>>739692410Who said anything about the witcher, plenty of games have choices matter gameplay, such as the imaging saga remake they released a while ago
>>739692881nta but I think 11's jacket looks like shitEvery other outfit he gets ingame is way better though, I kinda expect something similar to happen with the new guy
>>739680578>so pic related was an unmitigated fucking disaster, right?well yeah, the cancelled game was developed for the PS5.
>>739685040I guarantee you fucking everything FoF was has been reworked into this new 12
>>739680665If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
>>739685007They announced a new DQM and 1 and 2 have really good remakes on the 3DS that are fan translated.
>>739692867His word is law as far as DQ is concerned, if he doesn't like something they change it. He's the elder sensei god in that place.
>>739692764you are high as hell. Luminary >>>>>>>>>> Zoominary.
>>739680578I told you all of this was going to happen 5 years ago when it was first announced. Not because the game supposedly being dark was hated by fans. But because many past DQ were already dark in themes. But the graphics stay bright and cheerful at the start. It's the story content that will sometimes get really harsh and dark. Like in Dragon Quest II, III, V, VII, VIII and XI.Dragon Quest unironically has harsher events and character deaths than Final Fantasy. And it's because of the hours of light-hearted build up earlier in the game. Then when the characters are ruthlessly killed it feels like they're taken from you. Though the localizations really tired everything it could to ruin these events.
>>739689949>>739690094They're called Jodhpurs, they're designed for comfort while riding on horseback, but look weird outside of it.No kdea why they didn't go for regular breeches.
>>739692471They did it early on and it stuck or something People have accepted it won't ever get better
>>739692951*romancing sagawtf? Where did I get that?
>>739693080You should probably play a DQ game beyond XI.
>>739692764I can't picture Luminary taking a dump on the sidewalk in San Francisco surrounded by used needles and trash, so no, he's not worse than this shit.
>>739692951Spare me your cope. This was a naked attempt to ape off western RPGs and storytelling for the western dollar and broader worldwide mass appealTrying to force that mold onto fucking DQ of all things was always a fools errand
>>739693127I started this series when it was called Dragon Warrior, son.
>>739689015>people have aged out of gamingNo they have aged out of new gaming, old heads still play their favorite classics from time to time and would have lost their minds at a full 1:1 remake while simultaneously the hype would have brought in new fans. I mean realistically who do you think buys and plays new FF? I bet the majority of XVI sales were people that have been fans of the series for decades that just refuse to give up on SE and a small minority of new people that never played FF before. I’ll tell you for sure that XV created no new fans of the series because it was dogshit.At the end of the day the moral of the story is that SE has completely lost sight of how to handle FF properly and they don’t even understand their own fanbase and why they loved FF in the first place. This became apparent especially with the dogshit that was XIII and XV and then it became super apparent with them mishandling the literal guaranteed slam dunk that was remaking VII.
>>739693186You didn't. You're in your 20s and you spend all day posting on 4chan about games you don't play.
>>739692940>>739692954I thought we were talking face only. Yeah his outfit isn't the best. But I don't really mind that considering there's costumes.
>>739693073Anon, I really don't think his artstic integrity is as iron clad as you want to think it is. I can assure redoing the game they originally promised isn't what he anybody else at SE had in mind, but circumstances forced their hand
>>739693185How is hoping a cool mechanic stays in the game cope? Japanese games also use this mechanic, it has nothing to do with the west
>>739685281Hopefully that OP has killed himself.
>>739690630>Or they simply had no faith in a Nintendo console>Too late to pivotThey literally announced that XI would release on the Nintendo NX during the game's initial announcement back in 2015. I don't know why everyone seems to have forgotten this, it was a big deal at the time
>>739692867>>739693073>>739693376Horii owns the IP, not SE. He decides the direction of the game.That's why even low-cost spinoffs like DQ Treasures have significant alterations in development as well, he can simply change his mind. I imagine he didn't want to do a darker story by the time 2023 rolled around and one of his friends was dead and Toriyama was going in for brain scans and surgery.
>>739693381Yes, they exist in Japanese games...as a way to appeal to the west and make more money. Are there exceptions? Sure. But DQ is not nor has it EVER been the kind of franchise to have that kind of mechanic nor would it benefit from it.
>>739693185Not him but Horii has always been a fan of western RPGs and has always wanted to make games more like them.Hopefully Horii’s vision of western rpg is more BG3 less Witcher 3.
>>739693215I'm 37 and my first Dragon Warrior game was the NES copy my older brother got from nintendo power. You need to fuck off with this delusional "only people too young to remember anything other than 11 hate 12's protag" it doesn't even make sense, since the zoomer haircut is literally made to appeal to zoomers.
>>739693376You don't toss hundreds of thousands of dollars (25 yen) down the drain without a damn good reason. Horii IS Dragon Quest, and has the cred to demand certain things. He's like Miyazaki at Ghibli. His completely off-color whims can send years of work into the dumpster on a random Tuesday. This system is WHY Japan can't make games anymore.
>>739693331Nuguy and luminary are better than 6,7 and 8, and I mean that with my whole heart
>>739691583Yeah, no shit. Everyone with a brain was fully aware, it's a blessing stillbirth and xvi flopped so they were forced to see reason. I just know the original version would have resulted in SE getting their offices Flames of Fated like kyoani
>>739693542It's amazing that these threads have a hundred people who are all in their 40s and all played Dragon Warrior right from the first one, even though every game afterwards up until 8 bombed horribly and sold within the tens of thousands, it really is amazing stuff that all these people out of MILLIONS are right here.I don't care, my point was just a jab that you have to be an XIfag to think the Luminary looks better than XII's protagonist.
>>739693505>This fucking cope again. Anon. SE shareholdings probably hold just as much weight as Horii does, if not more. I don't think Horii was as much in love with the idea as you like to think he was, clearly by us getting a completely different fucking game.
Sick and Twisted DQ12 where Killing Machines.exe attack your town, behead and rape everyone but you, and leave the village in flames. The Flames... of Fate.
>>739680578DQ dodged a bullet really.
>>739693682>Anon, [headcanon that can't be backed up].>[Irrelevant drivel]Cool!
>>739693680>I don't care, my point was just a jab that you have to be an XIfag to think the Luminary looks better than XII's protagonist.no, you just need eyes. 12's protag looks fucking awful, literally the MC from the Prince of Persia metroidvania, but in toriyama's artstyle. anyone sick of zoomer hair will dislike him, which is a lot of people.
DQ12 leaked concept art, don't death open inside.
>>739693526Him being a fan of western RPGs isn't a justifable reason to want ot turn his fanchise into one
The internet is so predictable. Most of you hated 12's concept and now that Horii scrapped it for something else, its suddenly the best shit ever and we lost a "classic".
What’s funny is the new Divinity game is going full dark fantasy and it’s probably going to sell a billion copies.
>>739693680The MCs are always whatever. What makes the MCs shine is the supporting cast. Both of you are arguing something completely pointless until we see the full team of characters and how they interact.
>>739693680My first DQ was DQ1 for the SNES 8 years ago, then DQ11, then DQ2, then 3 through the first 4 stories if DQX
>>739693376Square executives have no say on what the hell Dragon Quest does it's an independent entity that allows them to publish and work on it. The IP is bigger than them.
>>739693785>Android 16 has turned into zoomer hair
>>739693789THAT SLIME STOLE MY BIKE
>>739693770Yeah you are still coping even though we have the evidence that proves it all now
>>739690702They said they're Toriyama's designs.
>>739693785XI looks like the white bread of JRPG protagonists. He looks boring. He has nothing going on, he has no style, he has some pretty awful colour choices to boot.XII looks alright. I don't get this obsession with the hair when Toriyama has done similar hair styles for longer than most people here have even been alive, it all feels incredibly disingenuous, especially when paired with statements implying thousands of people here all played DW1 on the NES day one.
>>739693810It’s not the Internet it’s 4chan, this place is full of hate filled individuals that blame society for their own shortcomings and hate seeing people be happy. It’s just like Elliot Rodger losing his shit at seeing a happy couple and throwing his coffee at them.
>>739692471Richard Honeywood pushed for Chrono Cross and Dragon Quest VIII to have heavy accents when he was the translator of those games. The Japanese side didn't care and just let him do whatever he wanted. Chrono Cross was a mild success but Dragon Quest VIII was a huge success compared to any previous Dragon Quest outside of Japan. And so they looked for the reason for this. Is it the good graphics? The fact they actually gave the game marketing? The fact that anime and Toriyama are popular in the west and DQVIII was the first time they didn't try to erase it? Nah, it must be the accents! This is literally the conclusion the localization director in Japan came to in an interview.So each game that came after pushed more and more accents. And to the point that they flat out altered entire characters and sections of the game to create an accent where the original game didn't have one. And it was the localization director of SquareEnix of Japan who kept forcing this. Even after Richard Honeywood fucked off and went to work at Blizzard, it continued. And they started to even push it into other series like Final Fantasy and Mana. Basically, the Japanese localization side went crazy.
>>739690702Toriyama's art hasn't "looked like Dragon Ball" for over 25 years.
>>739693785It's not zoomer hair nigga that toriyama hairstyle is more than 20 years old.
>>739693825Sure buddy. Just like how SE has no say in KH because Disney owns most of it and all of its original characters.
>>739693810Versus XIII effect.
>>739680578If it was anything like XVI then thank God they dropped that idea. I bought it on a whim and dropped it after 6 hours. How the fuck did they make an action combat system with less depth than a typical DQ game?
>>739693954It's not just 4ch lol. I remember when everyone hated Street Fighter 4, then 5 came out and suddenly it was everyone's favorite, then 6 came out and suddenly 5 was beloved.
>>739693976Wow guys, I can't believe they got rid of Toriyama back in 2009...
>>73969402316 is better with the rebalances but what kills it is the eikon pacing, especially when you can only equip 6 moves at a time out of like 30 or whatever.
>>739694000If Square wants Mickey Mouse to behead someone and put their head on a spike they have to get Disney's permission.
>>739694046I remember people complaining about how bad Daima's designs looked (and Dragon Quest's designs overall, and really any Toriyama character design not in the Dragon Ball Z anime), but ever since he died people started jerking them off.
>>739693789His eyes... He's been afflicted by the... Flames of Fate
>>739692090It's these kind of complaints that allowed Brittany to exist.
>>739693596>His completely off-color whims can send years of work into the dumpster on a random Tuesday.This hasn't really happened before though. The only documented time this happened was Dragon Quest 9. And it wasn't because he did it but because the fan outcry to the first trailer having action combat was so huge.Dragon Quest XI also had a case of him acting on his "whims." Wanting to change the story right up until launch so they didn't add voice acting to cutscenes. But he didn't scrap all game development. He just kept changing or adding scenes. And this is how he's worked on most of the games. Except ironically II which needed it. He didn't want to delay it and rushed it out without his meticulous play testing and edits. And it turned out to be worse for it. He cites that game as to why he does this for all future titles.The more likely reason DQXII is being delayed so much is 1) They spent years remaking DQXI on multiple platforms and 2) Square is pressuring him to make it more like modern games, which take forever to make. Again, see DQXI.
>>739692408That's actually not what happened with Prime 4 either, the post release interviews made it clear Retro was given Namco's scraps and told to make it work somehow.
>>739694201Panzy is the only good Daima design and that's stretching it.
>>739693971>Is it the good graphics?No, looked way worse than some DBZ fighting games and especially Final Fantasy. >The fact they actually gave the game marketing? I mean maybe, but that didn't really help any of the DS games outside of 9.>The fact that anime and Toriyama are popular in the west and DQVIII was the first time they didn't try to erase it?Considering all the other DQ games with Toriyama art bombed horribly, no.
>>739694329>This hasn't really happened before though.There's an entire version of DQM3 that got heavily altered into DQ Treasures.
>>739694176And modern Disney would be more likely to greenlight that then allowing them to use a good 2D IP like Duck Tales or Darkwing Duck. You get woke 3D crap or Live action crap or nothing.
>>739693810you're literally the only person in this entire thread that's saying that
>>739694329Anon, that was 20 years ago. Old men get old, and they start "acting a fool" as the urban demographic would say in those days.
It's funny to see people call this ugly when DQVII exists.
>>739685837>Implying Toriyama never drew mohawked characters
>>739694596I actually like the bobblehead styleI think its the digital airbrush coloring that more people have a problem with
>>739694396>No, looked way worse than some DBZ fighting games and especially Final Fantasy. Dragon Quest VIII looks better than FFX and especially XI and XII. But you probably just hate anime so of course quazi CGI looks better to you.>I mean maybe, but that didn't really help any of the DS games outside of 9.Because 9 and Joker were the only two to get marketing. And those are the two that got popular...>Considering all the other DQ games with Toriyama art bombed horribly, no.They replaced Toriyama's art on all the games except III GBC (which did well since it got some marketing) and VII PS1 (which didn't because no marketing and releasing it late, after the PS2 was already out).
>>739694656I prefer them without the fade desu
I don't care if it's dark or not.I would just like choices to matter.DQXI erasing the Act 2 timeline sucked ass because characters actually developed there.
>>739680665
>Square-Enix musing that Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and other legacy franchises have struggled with growth due to huge gaps in releases, compared to say, something like pokemon which at least puts out 1-2 generations of titles a console generation, and remakes and spinoffs every year, and makes sure to onramp new fans constantly>last new numbered Dragon Quest was playable on a fucking 3DS and they rebooted developmentAs an aside I haven't really been fond of the recent DQ protags' appearances. Eye-searing pink-purple coat with plain blonde hair. Saiyan hair with an undercut and a black muscle shirt with yellow pants(though the sunken eyes are a nice touch). It feels weirdly half-assed compared to how instantly eyecatching and iconic prior DQ MCs were(though 6 is similarly guilty of this) despite their seemingly plainer accoutrements like 5's tunic and turban.New girl is cute though.
>>739694760Killing Veronica is a nono.
>>739694551>Old men get old, and they start "acting a fool">I don't have any evidence, but I just think it could happenOkay Maruzensky.
>>739694705>Dragon Quest VIII looks better than FFX and especially XI and XII. But you probably just hate anime so of course quazi CGI looks better to you.The average person buying games preferred the aesthetics of Final Fantasy to anime RPGs, that's why people talked about FFX even though its gameplay was far worse than SMT3 and DQ8.>Because 9 and Joker were the only two to get marketing. And those are the two that got popular...No, all of them had marketing. I had a fair number of magazines back in the day with DQ4 and 5 ads, not even video game magazines, just regular ones. I think one of them was even a comic.>They replaced Toriyama's art on all the games except III GBC (which did well since it got some marketing)Do you have the numbers to even back that up, because no. Just no, that didn't happen. And you conveniently leave out the fact that every game after 8 also had Toriyama art and also didn't do well.
>>739694812>strapless top>scarfFor what purpose? Oh yeah, to cover up her cleavage entirely.
>>739690702I bet Akira Toryiama drew the first art before they restarted the whole project. Then he died and had some other artist tryed and copy toriyamas art and failed at it.If i was Queernix i would just hired Toyotaro now that DB Super manga is put on hold and he is free.
Japan would've chimped out if they got the original DQ12 we all know it, some lunatic neet would probably burn down their office and lock everyone inside if it was all grimdark with real time combat.
>>739694823Serena was better and wanted 11's dick
So they restarted development after seeing a grimdark version of DQ would likely bomb?
>>739694850>every game after 8 also had Toriyama art and also didn't do well.every game after 8 also had dogshit localization and sold like shit so
>>739688209>After seeing all action combat jrpgsAll jrpgs in the past decade have flopped with the exception of Persona 5, which is a dating sim, and the Souls series which is even more action heavy, DQ12 will be no exception. E33 and BG3 didn’t gain notoriety because they’re turn based, people like them because we aren’t 12 year olds gawking at dogshit jap writing and aesthetics like we were back in 1998, times have changed.
>>739694939>I bet Akira Toryiama drew the first art before they restarted the whole project. Then he died and had some other artist tryed and copy toriyamas art and failed at it.This design looks like everything else Toriyama drew within the last 15 years of his life.
>>739695041Based, they should do that anyway. Fuck Shart Peenix.
>>739685040Maybe the dark part is the “dreams“ now and they made reality the generic crap setting the masses want. I mean it’s what I would do if I was the director.
>>739694812I am 95% sure that the human characters we've seen so far are being reused from it was originally the EDGE of FLAAAAMES with as many alterations made to them as they realistically could, that's why they look so weird and out of place
>>739695269It has to be. They just changed the setting.
Funny thing is that Dragon Quest has some super heavy themes, you just wouldn't guess by the art style.
>>739693442>They literally announced that XI would release on the Nintendo NX during the game's initial announcement back in 2015.And it did. That doesn't mean they had enough faith in the system to develop and launch it on there exclusively. Hence why it was announced for PS4 and 3DS at the same time. The idea that they had to be paid to think this way is revisionist history at its finest when even Nintendo themselves didn't have any faith in a Nintendo home console anymore, hence why they merged their product lines together, and when their own subsidiaries like TPC were pessimistic about its chances of being successful.
>>739695041And I would have personally lobbied to get him pardoned by international courts in such a scenario. Good thing that's no longer needed since SE realized on their own that being burned alive is neither fun nor lucrative
>>739680578FF16 bombing made them realize they need to stick to their roots
>>739695183The dream is the section with the Lizard guy. Not sure how many people picked up on it, but the Zoomer mc and the lizard are the same character
>>739693680>I don't care, my point was just a jab that you have to be an XIfag to think the Luminary looks better than XII's protagonist.I started with VII on PS1 and my favorite is IX. Luminary is lightyears better-looking than XII's protagonist. It's not even close. XII easily has the ugliest protagonist and character designs in the series.
>>739695357I thought you were arguing in good faith until your middle sentence, on top of that you clearly don't know how the 3DS version of XI came to be in the first place. Fell for it again
>>739694850>The average person buying games preferred the aesthetics of Final Fantasy to anime RPGsThe "average" person would like both FFX and DQVIII. The difference is FFX got 100x more marketing and was treated like the system seller for the PS2. So of course people were hyped up the wazoo for it. Dragon Quest VIII came out years later and, while it got some marketing, it didn't get anywhere near as much. And certainly wasn't considered a system seller. And the same happened to Final Fantasy XII. Notice how Final Fantasy XII wasn't anywhere near as hyped as X was. But somehow when a FF game doesn't do as well, it's just a fluke. But when Dragon Quest does, it's somehow proof that the games just aren't popular. Even though VIII almost tripled the sales of any previous game and lots of casual players noticed it.Your argument is the same as those people who claim 2D animation is dead because "fans don't like it anymore. They only like 3D animation." Despite how 2D movies were doing gangbusters right before and after Toy Story. And it was Disney/Dreamworks putting 10x more marketing and merchandising deals behind the 3D movies while ignoring their new 2D films that caused 2D hype to go down.
>>739694850>No, all of them had marketing. I had a fair number of magazines back in the day with DQ4 and 5 ads, not even video game magazines, just regular ones. You're going to need to provide proof of that. One, because you've already gotten caught talking out of your ass on previous points. But two because the games were notorious for not getting advertising. It was so bad the only advertising they did was going on DQForums and giving away posters to a couple people. And these were people who already were going to buy the game.Besides the total lack of marketing, the games actually sold out. Because SquareEnix massively underprinted them. That's why they were selling for over $100 on ebay for years after launch. Dragon Quest demand was rising coming off the hype of Dragon Quest VIII and Joker. But SquareEnix undercut the series. With long delays between releases, limited print runs and little to no marketing.>Do you have the numbers to even back that up, because no. Just no, that didn't happen. Do you have numbers it didn't happen? Because that's the problem. I can cite some numbers. But they're just estimates. And you'll claim they're not valid. At the same time, even if the game sold 300k copies, which is good for a GBC game, you'd claim the numbers are too low because it's not 6 million like a mainline game. This is always how these stupid arguments go.I got into the series because a half dozen of my friends were playing DQM and DQIII on GBC. And plenty of people since have cited learning about the series in the same way. But again, you're just going to say it's anecdotal evidence so it doesn't count. Yet your evidence to the contrary is anecdotal.>And you conveniently leave out the fact that every game after 8 also had Toriyama art and also didn't do well.Dragon Quest 9, Builders and 11 were all massive successes. The other games got little to no marketing but SquareEnix continued to release them.
All I know is that I’m going to enjoy the fuck out of all the essays covering the left behind clues in datamining that give an idea what FoF was supposed to be like.
>>739694015At least we actually saw what the Versus masterpiece was going to look like and make an informed comparison between that and the worst game ever made (XV).This is just people hallucinating based on nothing but a teaser logo and some platitudes from Horii.
>>739680665That is the weird thing.I've only played DQ11, and by all accounts it is a pretty standard DQ game. If the others are like that, I have 0 interest in playing them. However, the fans like that so why take that away from them? Not like they're gonna really win me back, might as well stick with the crowd and just accept 11 had inflated sales cause of it being many people's first change to play a game that was not on some handheld.
>>739695695>The "average" person would like both FFX and DQVIII.Which is why nobody buys DQ games right>But when Dragon Quest does, it's somehow proof that the games just aren't popular. The difference is people talk about FF and care about FF. In a week, there won't be any DQ threads because people will have already stopped caring. People just don't like DQ. It's a Japanese series liked by Japanese people, and that's the end of the story.
>>739692090It was likely going to be some FF7R-tier dub with characters saying "fuck" and "shit" every three words, some kind of Netflix's Castlevania on steroids.
>>739695269scarf girl reminds me of that shrek movie where fiona is a warrior girlboss, lol, so you might be right
>>739693814not in japan, they only care japan
>>739695815The game was far from finished and trailers can always fool people. People had already made up their minds that it was going to be good because but the truth is that it probably wasn't that much different from what we ended up getting with FFXV.
>>739695137>All jrpgs in the past decade have flopped with the exception of Persona 5, which is a dating sim, and the SoulsAnd Dragon Quest 11. Also Yakuza, Trials of Mana, Atelier, Pokemon, Mario RPG, etc.It's really just Final Fantasy that bombed because they needed to sell FF7 level numbers to break even. The other series could sell 1-2 million and make a profit (or even less in the case of Mana). And they sold even more than that. This is also why these arguments are so stupid. Everyone compares success to "how well did [x] JRPG sell compared to Final Fantasy?" When those games aren't copying Final Fantasy's dumb financial model.
>>739695796>You're going to need to provide proof of that.Ironic statement considering the state of citations wtihin your own posts.>That's why they were selling for over $100 on ebay for years after launch.They weren't. I got DQV brand new for like $60 a decade ago, but here's what they were priced at before covid hit and everything went up, so we'll set it to 2019. You can go to pricecharting and look at it right now.>Dragon Quest IX$25.>Dragon Quest IV$25.>Dragon Quest VIt jumped up to $50 average that year, but from 2013 to June 2019 it was usual $30~$35.>Dragon Quest VI$55, and that is because this is the only one that had an ACTUAL low print run. Because nobody wanted DQ, it came out in 2011 and SE knew nobody wanted these games by that point.>Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker$10.>Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2$20.>Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime$25. These games were not expensive until covid hit and every game got expensive. Even NSMB, the most overproduced game on the DS, doubled in price before and after covid (from $10 to $20). >Do you have numbers it didn't happen?Okay retard, this is called proving a negative.
>>739695668>I thought you were arguing in good faith until your middle sentenceWhat? You can go back and look at any article from the time, all three versions were announced in the same livestream.> you clearly don't know how the 3DS version of XI came to be in the first place.What am I missing exactly? Both the PS4 and 3DS versions were planned from the start. Horii, Uchikawa and Saito discussed this in an interview at the time.
>>739695817DQ8 was on PS2...
given how sensitive square was to retarded dudebro game journos I can see them sabotaging Versus for being too chuuniI've said it before but XVI was a game designed to pander to the people that hated XIII because it was "too anime". Flames of Fate was probably gonna be similar. It's just that Square is the most retarded company on Earth and so released their epic dudebro action game about 15 years too late
>>739683332no because unlike metroid prime, westoids dont care about dq enough to complain about an original concept being scrapped
>>739696132>yakuzaflopped>trial of manaflopped>atelierflopped>pokemondoesnt count that shit sells with the brand>mario rpglol mega flopped forgotten in 1 week
>>739696132E33 is like that too, again. It could have sold less than a million and still turned a profit.
>>739695827>Which is why nobody buys DQ games rightAlready addressed this in another post. You can say "no one buys DQ" as many times as you want. But it's already been proven wrong. So I don't need to address it again.>The difference is people talk about FF and care about FF. In a week, there won't be any DQ threads because people will have already stopped caring. And notice how 90% of all FF threads are talking about the old games or XIV? Not the latest games. By your dumb logic, this means the latest FF games are dead and didn't sell. In reality, the last two mainline FF games broke sales records. But were still hated by people. It's almost like sales, popularity and hype can vary wildly from title to title. And still not matter in the long run... Oh, but this breaks your headcanon. So you'll just ignore it.
>>739684141it is a bomb when it cost $300m to make and barely made half that backsuccess of failure has nothing to do with sales in relatrion to other JRPGs how are you fucking idiots still so stupid. success and failure is based on the budget of the game itself and if it profits off of its costs
>>739696289Your post flopped, sorry.
>>739696306>But it's already been proven wrong.Its proven right everytime one of them comes out man. >And notice how 90% of all FF threads are talking about the old games or XIV? Not the latest games.Almost like those games have a real legacy and fanbase and DQ's doesn't.
>>739692510its week 1 sales are literally highest in the franchise>>739684930wrong ff15 sold off the actual game being shown and demod and it kept on selling long after release too, it's also the highest selling ff on steam and that had 0 marketting
>>739696350I actually don't think the budget for XVI was that high, remember they reused the XIV engine. the only thing I can see to bring it up that high was the long dev time, but we actually don't know how long XVI was in development, only that Maehiro was pulled into its pre-production in 2015. But again, don't know how long that lasted and when actual production started.
>>739696289>lol mega flopped forgotten in 1 week>3.3 million sales>flopWhat?
>>739696289It's hilarious how you can't read. Or more accurately, ignore my points because you know yours is wrong. "If I say they're all flops then it becomes so!" Even when SquareEnix or Sega themselves come out and say the games went beyond their expectations and sold well. Nah, my headcanon is more correct than the actual game developer.
Did 11 ever get a mod to fix the translation?
>>739695137Not sure if past decade means the 10's period or the last 10 years but Digimon Time Stranger probably sold waaaaay more than Bamco anticipated
>>739688606f for faggot
>>739685230keep telling yourself that when the general public vastly considers xv to be better than xvithe only ff to kill ff was xvi and xiv dawntrail
>>739695804One of the things I am the most excited about. Something I want to know is if the concept of a dream world existed at any point during the Flames of Edge development, because Horii said that's what he wanted the next DQ to be in a Q&A that came with the artbook of DQXI's collector's edition. To me, the FFXVI direction was a company decision that he may have been somewhat into but, as we can see now, in the end pivoted back to what he originally wanted to make
>>739680665>trusting SE to not fuck everything upYou already have Final Faggotry for let hecking modern gamers. Leave DQ alone.
>>739696428I accept your concession.
>>739696504No. And no DQ game ever will.The people who complain about DQ translations often don't know Japanese and don't have any skill in coding or modding, so these things will never get made.
>>739696504I don't think so but isn't DQ's japanese pretty simple? since its supposed to be for all ages. could be a good way to learn
>>739696557Slightly over 1 million which is good for a Digimon game but that's that.
>>739696289You seem upset, acpedo. What's the matter, seething because XII is no longer ps exclusive?
>Dark themesDoes any anons here remember the beginning to Chapter 5 in DQ4? How is that not dark enough? What is happening with DQ12 is AI replacement, rookies in the industry dont know how to tell a good vs bad story anymore, share folders wanting profit over all and the legacy needing to come to an end. When a company as big as SquareEnix starts pumping out remasters, its over.My question to SquareEnix and their loyal fan base has been since FF7 Remake came out. If FF7 is the best JRPG ever made by their standards then why does it need a remake?
>>739696583I member when influencers were hyping up this game insanely hard, claiming the demo was the best demo they had ever played in their entire lives and shit like that.
>>739696583>general publicSteamies bombing games because their toasters cant run it dont count
>>739685513literally every scene in this XV trailer is in the game why do you XVIfags lie so blatantly?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GZL9iLwDFk>comicxsafter release, xvi was going to have a TV show but it was cancelled because XVI floppedXVI was going to have a stage play but was cancelled because XVI floppedXVI has a live action short film that cost millions to make and was shown during some soccer finals that cost millions just for the ad slotXVI has multiple AAA trailersXV's movie is literall just part of its marketting budget which was LOWER than XVI's actual marketting budgetxvi cut out 2/3rd of the game and has no fucking ending and has a fucking lore book you need to read to understand anything and read the jp only ultimania to get actuals story
>>739696601Based
>>739696703That's what smart people are pointing out. Tons of DQ games have dark themes. Dragon Quest VII is basically "Dark Themes: The Game." And endless chain of depressing story arcs, with one of the arcs setting off the events of like four others. And none of them end in a happy ending.But the people who don't actually play the games or are lemmings who listen to gaming "journalists" fell for this idea that it was going to be visually dark and "like Dark Souls." Same people who were told it would remain turn based combat. "B-but Kotaku told me it was going to be souls combat! You're wrong!"
>>739696703A lot of people never played a single DQ game.
>>739685680FF16 requires2 canon DLC about CLIVE1 canon lore book about CLIVE1 canon live action short film about CLIVE1 canon ultimania filled lore book section about CLIVEff16 requiresbase game for all Noctis story, anything else is bonus about side characters
>>739696703Anon the entire "dark themes" and "mature" buzzwords start making sense when you realize what they actually meant was "westernized for a worldwide audience" which, incidentally, was something they said during the first announcement. How could it get more "mature" and "dark" than the previous game which revolved around a baby being forced away from his family and kingdom because fucking luciferjudas took control of their close family friend's body and mind and proceeded to murder his parents and people? The answer is "We want the CoD and Witcher audience"
>>739696925The characters not saying slurs all the time and the game not having shitty FF/Resident shipping for couples makes it not "mature" anon.
>>739696601Many DQ games have gotten a retranslation. No one is doing it to 11 because there isn't much demand for that game. Though it does have one of the worst localizations ever. Not just DQ but gaming history. But tons of people prefer to eat shit because "muh flavor." But Many other games from the Super Famicom games to Dragon Quest IV on phones to DQMJ3 and Dragon Quest X have gotten fan translations.
>>739696587>Something I want to know is if the concept of a dream world existed at any point during the Flames of Edge development, because Horii said that's what he wanted the next DQ to be in a Q&A that came with the artbook of DQXI's collector's edition.He'll probably fulfill his original DQVI vision without it getting fucked by Chrono Trigger's development.
>>739696601Shame, guess I'll pass on it again.
>>739687185the killer of final fantasy, cucklive>xvi so dogshit they start calling him cid midway even they know clive is nothing
>>739697058isn't IV DS worse? or am I misremembering
>>739697058>Many DQ games have gotten a retranslation.No.DQ games get fan translations, but not retranslations. I've honestly never seen a DQ retranslation outside of maybe one for DQ4 back in the day, but I want to say that never got finished.
>>739697058To be fair with the SFC games it was fan translations or playing them in japanese...
>>739696925To be fair, the localizations also try to ruin the dark moments in the games with terrible accents or puns. Then ruin the light-hearted moments with dry translations or removing the jokes. It's like they actively are trying to sabotage the games. You're about to go into the epic battle to save your wife and get turned to stone? Let's change all the dialogue to chess puns! Oh, this one spot is one where it actually has a pun in the original Japanese? Nah, let's just translate it as flat English and remove the joke.
>>739697224Shame how you get it better when a fan has to do it...
>>739697112Yeah because translations that make everyone speak in the same tone of voice regardless of what they did in Japanese is so much better. No on wonder Horii calls english a "simple language"
>>739697348for me it was turning a normal village in VII into exaggerated Scandi stereotypes in the 3DS version because....??? They had a world tree...I guess????
>>739697348Gotta spice it up dawg. Only overwrought accents and a new script can save this game.
>>739697327YMMV, see image related, granted it isn't DQ but still.
>>739697348This is always such a dumb argument. Very few people are asking for a dry translation. If the Japanese has one character speaking in Kansai ben and another in Tohoku ben, you can easily do this in English. One just gets translated as say Cockney and the other one is more like a Scottish or Gordie. The problem is, the DQ games instead have one of them speaking totally broken French accent and the other is speaking Italian. It doesn't relate to the original intention and doesn't even make sense in the game world, where there's literally a plot point that everyone in the world speaks the same language.People don't complain about Chrono Trigger. But they do complain about Chrono Cross. Because it was an overstep, some of the accents were annoying, and didn't make sense in the game world. And Dragon Quest IV, IX and XI is 10x worse than Chrono Cross was.
>>739697543Dont reply to me faggot. The overly dry shit is just as bad as shoving in an accent literally everywhere.If you cant even use your language to convey the difference between an aggressive/timid character and just have both of them going "my name is x", then you have no right to talk about a script. Especially when its obvious in Japanese.
>>739697649DeJap is cancer and a prime example of what not to do with a fan translation. They're literally doing what the localization for DQ does. Rewriting it.>nah, a total rewrite is fine if I like itUntil it happens to a game you like or the rewrite isn't something you like.
>>739697710>very few peopleSpeak for yourself. Have you never visited 90% of the translation threads? Its almost entirely faggots praising some lazy AI slop shit.
>>739697825its funny because the "overly dry shit" is always strawmen and I don't think I've ever seen a translation that had that problem
>>739697825Well seeing as you pulled overly dry out of your ass since I said nothing of the sort, I wasn't humoring it at all. Are you saying the actual script is complete shit that localizers have to save?
>>739697928I think the point of those threads is that the "lazy" AI is more accurate than the official stuff which is entirely made up shit. I don't think I've ever seen a convincing argument in those threads that the AI got something wrong, missed context, or "lost flavor".
>>739697825>The overly dry shit is just as bad as shoving in an accent literally everywhere.I bet you've played countless games with a "dry" translation and didn't even notice. Dragon Quest fans run around and claim they literally can't play a DQ game without all the accents and changes. But don't realize as bunch of the games did this already. And even in games with tons of accents like 11, there's huge sections of the game where they just speak standard English. Or in Dragon Quest 11, some NPCs who had an accent in the first Act just magically drop it in Act 2. Especially the mermaids and some NPCs in the Italian village. And no one noticed. They literally only notice when it is changed.
>>739688382barely any progress had been made even before 14 launched and versus was actually cancelled because the internal prototypre played like shitit only got greenlit as ffxv because tabata was asked take it in a new direction and so he put together a new prototype using versus 13 ps3 models but with as new gameplay system he and the ff7/8 and kh2 combat planner came up with and thats what got ff15 actually greenlit in 2013
>>739697928>Have you never visited 90% of the translation threads?Most of those threads are people saying AI should be used to replace the localization translators. Because the translators are going on Twitter/Blue Sky and bragging about how much they "improved" over the original Japanese. And how they absolutely had to change some character to trans to fill a quota.Very few people think the AI translation is perfect. And I don't advocate for AI translations. Just getting humans who will actually stick to the original meaning.
>>739698072>>739698120No. I'm saying that the localized script is overwrought and the AI translations are crap that people only support because they've been conditioned to get so much trash from localizers that anything seems better regardless of quality.I dont need accents out the ass, but come on, you can't be serious if you think an LLM is going to do a good job in a language full of subtext.
>I would like a good translation>Worthless Jap shit like Dragon Quest is fucking dry we have to spice it up>What They will miraculously forget this by the next thread
>>739698329AI is FAR from perfect, but still preferable to wokalization by trannyslators.
>>739698362Reminder that Horii says that english a fundamentally simple language and that we'll never get his nuances.
>>739691583no it was his idea but 40 year old DQ neets in japan threw a fit and dq12 hit dev hell so they pivoted and restarted after 5 yearsthe designs would've had to have been all done when it was flames before toriyama died
>>739688954lol yes they have a say
>>739698516Based and truth nuke
>>739698362Since it gets brought up in literally every DQ thread, I don't think anyone is going to forget it. When half the fans hate the localization and it's one of the three biggest talking points, the idiot localization director of SE of Japan should take notice. Especially after the massive meltdown that happened with FFXIV and Trials of Mana over the same thing.
>>739698531Cope
>>739698348feel free to post examples of the AI missing "subtext" in those threads thenand yes, the entire point of those threads is that a fucking AI is better than official localizations
>>73969853140 year old DQ neets have done more for gaming than you ever will, funny how that works. Stay mad, acpedo
>>739698598You can use english to convey shit but no one wants to do so because it would require more text and doing that is scary.
>>739698694A lot of old translations are shit not only because of rushed work but because they had to work around hard coded limits to the text lengthGames past like the PS1 don't have that problem but translators are still shit most of the time cause its not a good job to have
>>739698627>Trials of ManaYou mean the retards who thought that -dechi was just some random cutesy verbal tic and not a symbolism of a child who has issues pronouncing words properly? Chawwotte bizarrely enough was accurate.
>>73969853140 year old DQ neets are smarter and more moral than any snoy that wants LE EDGE GRIMDARK EVERYTHING SUKS XD slop
>>739698531No one threw a fit over anything cause we never saw anything but a logo
>it's impossible for dq of all series to not have a good translation in the year 2026Fuck tge modern se translation teams
>>739697928Why wouldn't something lazy and straight-forwards not be better than something that's wrong and annoying on purpose and out of spite? There's going to be quality and context issues, but it'd still be more accurate and less irritating than someone who's writing their own bad fanfiction instead.
>>739698531Those 40 and 50 year old boomer neets are still the true audience for DQ than zoomers. Cope.
>>739698951Either get a competent translator or dont do it at all.
>>739695815XV achieved the dream versus failed to deliver
>>739680578Zoomer haircut and xi was already literal faggot slop
>>739696470a studio that worked on ff16 mentioned in their financial report ff16 had a $300m budget, they completely modified the engine specifically for only ff16 which was years of R&Dthey said they spent 2 years on a prototype for 16 before 2019 and that were working with UE4 before they modified ff14 engine for FF16
>>739699279oof, I didn't know that
