I actually like the first two games a bit more. You can do everything in this game and it just makes it way too easy, if that makes any sense. They were creatively bending over backwards to make all of these interesting level designs, guard patrols, "gimmick" mechanics, like really trying to get the most out of what the toolset and engine could handle. Especially with the second game, because it's on the same simpler engine with barely any changes. Then you have Chaos Theory is kind of a lot of (albeit well designed) hallways and small rooms with extremely simplistic patrols, level design etc. Any problem you come across can be solved so easily it's insane, whistle and lure, use the pistol to screw with the lights which has no downside now, bash doors, etc. Feels like the entire game is rotating through all of these OP abilities through 24/7 stealth, no combat no gimmick samey levels gameplay wise. NO I'm not being a contrarian and saying this game is bad, it's pretty good but just pretty good.
>>739709921I did think it was kind of cheap that the ringfoil in ct knocked out anywhere on the body, one of the high skill ceiling aspects of the first 2 games was choosing between an attempt for an instant ko with a difficult arced headshot and a bodyshot stun setting up a running elbow.it was also a lot of fun using the stickycam for headshot only takedowns. bodyshot would result in no daze and an immediate caution state, headshot would be a knockout. fun high risk high reward mechanic.
How the fuck did they get this game running on a GameCube
>>739709921Do the older games have Amon Tobin osts? If not I really can't be bothered.
>>739711668It's a different version I think
I liked that you had a laser sight in PT. It looked cool and you could actually hit stuff accurately with your pistol for once.
I'm playing Double Agent on a PS2 emulator for the first time (I shelfed it a while ago but I'm planning on starting it again soon). Works really well. I tried on an Xbox emulator first, but the PS2 emulator works much better
>>739709921While I love the Splinter Cell games, my main complaint with the series has always been how linear a lot of the levels are.My ideal Splinter Cell game would be some kind of mix between Chaos Theory and the tight but still open level design of MGS V: Ground Zeroes.
>>739712327PS2 version is shit. I'm lucky I found an Xbox One in a dumpster and can play the OGXbox disc on it.
>>739712632>slightly worse lighting>"IT'S FUCKING GARBAGE"
>>739709921>this is better and that's actually badInsufferable faggot
>>739715616zero reading comprehension
>>739709921but did you play CT in co-op? if not your opinion is invalidated
poor mans mgs :^(
>>739709921>You can do everything in this game and it just makes it way too easy, if that makes any sense.Nope I noticed what you said myself when I went back to play the four Xbox games (Double Agent as well) a couple of years ago. What you said is exactly the type of problem stealth games can have if a developer is not careful enough. This is why shit like wall hack powers or gadgets ruins stealth in most modern games. It gives the player too much power.As for your other points. Yes they did in fact make Sam Fisher a bit too capable in comparison to the previous two games. Although I think he had the whistling in PT if I recall. It does in fact make the stealth easier. I would say CT just hovers right before the line to where it crosses into the pc being way too overpowered. In a modern game with stealth sections the pc crosses that line. In CT its just before the line imo. The knife if you think about it is actually kind of redundant and unnecessary in the game. You get a better ranking if you don't kill guards. Ideally you want to deal with them as little as possible. Killing them lowers the rank. You never have to outright kill most guards either in the entire game minus a few of them. One being at the very end of the lighthouse level which is the first level in the game. I'll make one more post on the topic. I love the Splinter Cell games overall.
>>739709921>>739716895The other thing I wanted to add is that I think what differentiated SC compared to say MGS was that the stealth gameplay in SC seemed to lend itself more to linear style level design if that makes sense. It shined more in a mission structure with less ways to solve or get passed the missions since it relies so much on the dark/light stealth gameplay and also the sound. This is why I did like how CT made the sound meter to go in addition with the dark/light meter. This is what made SC gameplay shine compared to MGS and why many would say SC is a more hardcore stealth series than MGS ever was. Its because the exact moment to moment stealth gameplay in a typical SC game is a lot more apparent and in your face. MGS by comparison is a ton of campiness and mixtures of genres in addition to the stealth being the main core of the series. Sound and shadows does not matter as much. Its more about if you are strictly caught or not because the guards in a typical MGS game are more just for a lack of a better way to put it, cartoony, kek.CT had more open level design. SC and PT had more linearity. But this also meant you can exploit the AI more imo in CT and DA. Where as SC and PT you had to play how the level designer might have wanted you to beat the level. I love all the games though. The best the stealth genre has ever seen. AAA industry will never ever make games like this again.
>>739709921Splinter Cell is just Thief for retards anyway.
>>739709921I love this game a lot but the 2nd level on the ship is so shit that it kills my replaythroughs sometimes
>>739711953Still fucking impressive when compared to any other GC title.
>>739718591The ship is a fine level. So many pipes to cling to and choke people out from above. And killing Lacerda is pretty cool.
>>739709921i played the first two recently, the submarine mission DLC was pretty good, never played that before
>>739718591lol what? That is one of the better levels of the game. In fact I'd say the first four levels are the strongest ones in the game.
>>739709921Old Tom Clancy games were great. The first ghost recon is the best and its not even close.
>>739716698Its better in every way, and it doesn't have gay fanfic writing from kojima.
>>739719389Ship and Seoul are fucking annoying. And Bathhouse. Bank through Missile Bunker is a peak stretch and that's where the game shines.>>739716895>The knife if you think about it is actually kind of redundant and unnecessary in the game.I think having any angle knockouts was dumb, knockouts should have been harder somehow, like in the first 2.
>>739719591The Bank, NYC, Japan and Battery levels were the peak
bathhouse is the best level
>>739719784The Bank is objectively the best level. It also feels like a really good Thief level, I wish they did more like that.
>>739719702>Ship and Seoul are fucking annoying.Seoul had soul in my opinion to be quite honest here. It is actually my favorite level in this game.
>>739719879I really like parts of it. The start rocks right up until the roof. Then it's shit for a while. Then it gets good right at the end again. Too inconsistent. The UAV's and tanks are not good additions.
I think Pandora Tomorrow is the best Splinter Cell game.
How has there not been a stealth game as good as Chaos Theory? It's 20 years old at this point, you'd think there'd be some competition.It's ludicrous that it hasn't been re-released honestly other than for the fucking 3DS, but I know that they would ruin it by removing the coop and pvp modes.
>>739711668xbox version was the best one
>>739719825>>7397200321. Seoul2. Bank3. Penthouse4. Cargo Ship5. Lighthouse 6. Battery7. Displace8. Kokubo Sosho9. Bathhouse10. Hokkaido That is my ranking for the missions. Some of the missions have bad parts or parts that are fine but could have been better but I'd say for the most part the game is phenomenal. Its enjoyable throughout the whole campaign. I'm also okay with the bank mission maybe being best. Its probably the objective best mission of the game. Seoul had such a great atmosphere to it though. Would have been great to see more missions like that with two factions fighting each other while you sneak around them.
>>739720214The ending is so cheesy but hilarious. Yeah PT was great. Sadono was a good villain. PT is certainly better than Conviction.
I last played the original trilogy back in 2011.Makes me so happy that I only have vague memories of it by now. The impending replay will be so fun.
>>739720223MGS ground zeroes was pretty good
>>739720214Too bad it had 8 missions which was least amount of missions compared to the other games.
>>739720635Chaos Theory has aged amazingly. The only thing for me that dates it is some bad face models and some bad voice acting from NPCs.
>"I don't know who! That's why I'm worried!">very good, now do it in a chinese, latin american and new york accentWrite like two more voice lines for these dudes, seriously. It's skyrim tier
What I always hated about the original SC games is that the enemies often carry data sticks on them. If you're autistic about collecting and reading that shit, "ghosting" levels is not an option, since you have to knock out every single NPC to check their pockets. If it was possible to just steal their shit by getting close enough, like you can steal keys off guards' belts in Thief, if would be so much better.
Why did they never make a level editor for these games? It would make it the greatest video game ever made with almost no need for any other stealth game
>>739709921the problem with chaos theory is that you cant ghost it like the previous two you need to grab certian enemies to make them give you the codes to doors if you hack them they eventually find out
>>739720441>1. Seoulsoul
>>739715616You're a fucking retard.
StealthGODS we need more stealth kino
>>739721383fuck, a splinter cell that played like original thief would be based
Funny you should post this now, I also just finished CT for the first time ever today and felt very similarlyFor years Ive seen CT brought up in Thief threads as being on par or better than them, so having played SC1 and PT (which I love) I was really expecting CT to be major step up in level design and player freedom, but CT is barely less linearI loved all 3, theyre great, but theyre nowhere near the level of Thief TDP/TMA and I also genuinely think I liked both 1 and PT more than CT
>>739709921I thought the same yeah. But then again, you've also seen everything the engine has to offer in the first two games, so the third one might not have as much of an impact.I should play all of these again
>>739724771Sad the newest Styx flopped hard. Master of shadows was fun
>>739709921the one mother fucker on v who actually is intelligent
>>739710853Something I liked about the PS2 Double Agent was that ringfoils would stun guards, allowing you to run up and grab them for interrogation. In Chaos Theory, the ringfoils are just a slightly more loud sticky shocker.
>>739709921Complaning 20 years later. We were expecting your thread anon.
>>739712270There's ways to tweak the settings in CT so that your reticle isn't jittery and stays focused.>Set in-game sensitivity to 200>Set your mouse sensitivity to be low as fuck, or go into the CT ini files to tweak it manuallyBoom, now you have tight and snappy aiming with minimal reticle bloom.
>>739712327Did you also run into the problem of the widescreen mod making the game crash on certain levels?
>>739720032Sounds like you're ignorant of a lot of things regarding how the game works.>UAVsYou can shoot them out of the sky with the sniper attachment, or use the OCP.>TanksThey're jokes if you know what to do. First tank is easily blinded with smoke (take out the soldiers first). 2nd tank actually lets you throw a frag into it to destroy it without that counting against your mission rating for some reason. This is the only time in the game where you can kill a random guy and not get punished for it.
>>739720578Remember how in the first few games, Sam had a dark sense of humor and fun dialogue? That sense of humor went out the fucking window with Conviction. He was always a brooding, angry sack of shit. Blacklist was the same. I miss the original Sam.
Chaos Theory is honestly like a victory lap game compared to the shit you had to deal with in the first two. Shetland never stood a chance.
>>739731040I dunno, Bathhouse was a challenge.
am I better off just emulating the ps2 versions of the first 3 games?I imagine the pc version needs cfg file fuckery and million patches to be good, with fucked up controls on top
>>739731312is xbox emulation not great still?
>>739709921I feel Chaos Theory's more freeform design would have worked a lot better if they went full on with larger open maps like in Thief or Hitman. Its more open than the first two games, but it mostly just amounts to having multiple short paths to each checkpoint and a lot less points of no return or conveniently jammed doors.
>>739731384around 80% playable on xemulooks like splinter cell is one of them
>>739731312I ran them all on pc with little effortThe only real hurdle is getting PT to work but I dont remember doing anything special for 1 and I just played through CT basically out of the box
>>739731384It's brand ass new and pretty shitty. It will feel unplayably bad in any title if you're used to GameCube/ps2 emulation even at the level of 10 years ago
>>739709921This game deserve a remake with ultra realistic graphics and re4remake style gameplay
>>739731312Pc is superior because you can control your walking speed with scroll wheel
>>739709921>crowbars are for geeky video game charactershow did ubisoft get away with it?
>>739731384Xemu can play them but they've got issues. Last I tried I was having PT break the shaders, but that was half a year ago at this point and there's apparently been major strides in the Tom Clancy games. At the very least I could complete 1's tutorial without further graphical problems compared to just a year ago where the floor was clipping through all the geometry depending on the camera angle.
>>739731837wild take
>>739732091Okay, some stutter compilation stuff on a quick Double Agent version 2 attempt, but the Iceland mission was running okay, now let me test the first missions of PT and CT
>>739721383Well on a first playthrough you can do that then on a subsequent run you try to ghost. You can't really ghost these games completely though since each of them requires some small amount of mandatory fights in each. Would be nice if there was some sort of European extreme mode for these games.
>>739711668It's running on the PS2 engine version which is the same engine as the one used on the original SC. Meanwhile Xbox and PC use the latest version of the engine.
>>739716698Doesn't know ball>>739717508Knows ball but trolling
>>739731405It's almost like the point is to be forced to interact with guards, rather than circle around them.
>>739733432So Chaos Theory was running fine but got a big shader issue on upscaling, and for some reason Xemu made my computer shit the bed into a full restart. Pandora Tomorrow had a broken story FMV at first but seemed okay in the gameplay- then by the time I reached the first guard the visuals started breaking. Maybe it's because I was running Vulkan, but I figure Xemu just has a lot to work on still.
>>739731454Double Agent is still a crash fest on xemu. A shame, since it's the only one that matters.
sc-panel.com/
>>739734547I heard about the asymetric multiplayer in SC games. I don't get why the mercs wouldn't dominate. It's not hard to see splinter cells unless you're an AI guard in the game.
>>739731312pretty sure PS2 is missing dynamic shadows compared to xbox, which was kind of a key feature
>>739735579It's missing everything actually. It basically looks like a different game.
>>739735562A good Spy uses either misdirection so they bait a Merc into an ambush, or doesn't even attempt to fight them in the first place and makes their way around a problem until they're forced to resolve one. And when players have control sticks for camera aim, you'd be shocked how blind a Merc can regularly be without a lot of good skill and built up reflex. Though later iterations seriously butchered it by making the Spies largely ready to murder as well, so it just becomes first person versus third person deathmatch.
>>739734547how the fuck can anyone play with that terrible FOV
>>739735698PC doesn't have this problem. I think it's best to only emulate Double Agent's PS2 version, since you don't have a choice.
Spies vs mercs was so good bros
>>739735837GC and Xbox versions can be emulated now, but I dunno about Xenia for 360, not that I'd recommend that version anyway. DA is a travesty no matter how you cut it.
>>739735919>GC and Xbox versions can be emulated nowI'll believe that when I see it.
>>739735837>best to only emulate Double Agent's PS2 versionThe Xbox version when emulated on PC runs like shit and the effects are slightly broken depending on renderer/resolution but it is playable.The Wii and GC version had no audio on my machine, maybe it will function for others.The 360 version emulates fairly well and the missing laser effects got fixed a while back. Xenia Edge is what I use for the benefit of not fucking around with ini files on a per game basis.PC version has functional AI now because of recent updates to the widescreen fix fan patches.By this point the only version of Double Agent to ignore like the plague is the PS3 version because it runs like fucking shit on og hardware and nobody gives a fuck to improve compatibility on RPCS3.360, Xbox version can be played via Xbone and up with visual and performance upgrades. PC version is actually playable, PS2/Wii/GC are what they are but playable.
>>739736137Not sure why you even bothered with emulating DA v1 when the PC version is right there. DA v2 is the one worth playing, and since it works almost perfectly on PS2 emulators, that's the best option.
>>739731312I'm not sure about the first 2 games.CT does require a little bit of tweaking (widescreen mod, xinput mod) but then works perfectly and looks incredible in 4K.
Well, GC version runs and has audio on my end but the visuals are blatantly a little borked here and there.
>>739735698What are you guys even doing. PC is the only way to play it.
>>739736312>when the PC version is right thereThe PC version for the longest period of time was fucking broken. AI could not listen to anything, one of the graphics option broke level geometry in a certain mission completely softlocking progress.It was the worst way to play the game, even when compared to the PS3 which barely ran at 15 fps let alone 30.https://youtu.be/uX_FcPvM64c?si=v4JDbmq5Gdd-7YgPEven after the fan patch fixing some of its issues the 360 version will look better sometimes due to the fuckheads breaking some effects when they ported it to PC.
>>739736570Jesus Christ, Fisher.
>>739736614Wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that stuff when I played on PC.
>>739736620Can you really not set the internal render resolution any higher than 320p?
>>739736773I can, though I can imagine the bloom effects might break past native.
>>739736820Well it looks better, anyway.
>>739709921I can't agree about 1/PT being better, they feel so goddamn clunky after playing CT. The body discovery bug alone is enough to drive me mad.(If you ko/kill a guard in a remote dark area where nobody else ever patrols and leave them where they fall, that's an automatic body found alarm at the end of the map. If you pick them up and put them back down in the same place, that counts as hiding them. So you have to do a pick-up-put-down dance with everyone.)I know what you mean about CT feeling too easy once you know it well. It's a legit downside but doesn't outweigh the better mechanics.CT also manages to FEEL less linear and railroaded even though there's still usually only one path through the level. It helps that most fuckups (killing someone you were supposed to talk to or whatever) aren't fatal and just result in a bollocking from Lambert and a different solution.This will sound like a very subtle thing but I also loved that it mostly ditched the very specific low-level objectives (infiltrate area X, talk to person Y, access computer Z) of the first two games, in favour of high-level ones ("find out who the mercenaries work for", "determine if the missile launch was intentional"). Obviously they still map to specific in-game actions in mostly linear missions but it's a nice level of indirection on your first run.You get a really effective feeling of being a spy carrying out a delicate mission by any means necessary.
>>739737342>(If you ko/kill a guard in a remote dark area where nobody else ever patrols and leave them where they fall, that's an automatic body found alarm at the end of the map. If you pick them up and put them back down in the same place, that counts as hiding them. So you have to do a pick-up-put-down dance with everyone.)Oh shit, I never knew that, that sucks assRemember how good the free DLC missions were?Remember how hard the CIA level was in the first game?
On one hand this looks better than the Gamecube version. On the other I'm getting slowdown and it requires motion controls so it's fucked from the get-go. God launch era shoehorning of wiimote shit was awful.
>>739737342>I can't agree about 1/PT being better, they feel so goddamn clunky after playing CT. The body discovery bug alone is enough to drive me mad.>(If you ko/kill a guard in a remote dark area where nobody else ever patrols and leave them where they fall, that's an automatic body found alarm at the end of the map. If you pick them up and put them back down in the same place, that counts as hiding them. So you have to do a pick-up-put-down dance with everyone.)That's wrong, and it's sad that you've gaslit yourself into believing it. Body found alarms only trigger if you drop someone in a well lit area.
>>739737623Back to the PS2 version, then. It comes with 2 extra levels.
>>739709921Reminder the Xbox version is the only version that matters for all the SC games
>>739730669In CT? Was the reticle even wobbling in that game the way it did in PT?
There is a few things that pissed me off about Splinter Cell 1:>the aiming is super inaccurate to the point of being useless, I understand some realism, but an elite agent can't shoot someone 10m away when they're both not moving? It's also a pain even just for shooting out lights and cameras>the bodies being discovered shit when you enter a new area is wonky and stupid as hell>melee'ing an enemy from behind is needlessly annoying because you have to tilt your stick juuuust the right amount, too little and he outpaces you, too much and you run into him and get an alert, and you have to be like 1 inch away to actually do the stupid melee attack. Sounds like a nitpick, but that's the main way to dispatch enemies, so it got so annoying>the forced combat section at the end of the game was UNBELIEVABLY bad, I refuse to believe anyone tested that and actually said "yep, that's good, keep that there, ship it"Do the sequels fix any of these issues?
>>739737938No, it's different. By default, it's very jittery and the reticle blooms to maximum easily.
stupid bait
>>739736612you're a fucking retard.
>>739735562The multiplayer is very different from single player, but yes Mercs do win more than spies even when the game is balanced.
>>739734547Could this type of multiplayer even work today or are modern nu-gamers just too shitty to make a game like this work in this day and age?
>>739738760It's a game that depends a lot on map knowledge and every player counts. Winning by yourself is almost impossible, so it's hard to push blame onto team members.
>>739738760>Could this type of multiplayer even work today or are modern nu-gamers just too shitty to make a game like this work in this day and age?MGS Delta sort of had it but no one played it so no.You could maybe make it in roblox and some kids would play it tho!
>>739730989The devs peaked with CT it regards to writing Sam. The mid mission dialogue was actually a joy to hear. Sam wasn't the angry or brooding twat that they made him later on. He was a cynic and had a darker personality, but it was moderated by his humorous sarcasm and quips that kept the mood. Reminds me of how the shit writers at the other dogshit Montreal game studio royally fucked Garrets dry sarcasm for batman-esque brooding.
>>739737662I don't feel like installing the game and testing it, but it's definitely an issue. You can lure someone to a dark remote place where no other guard ever ventures near, knock them out, leave the game running for hours/days to prove that no-one will ever go anywhere near them, then cross the trigger to the next map and instantly get ALARM BODY FOUND.I definitely remember picking them up, putting them right back where they were, and not getting alarms.I guess it's possible I was moving them just a few pixels and that was enough for them to be considered in shadow vs light. That doesn't really change my objection: The body found check is a magic arbitrary one, it's not based on whether anyone finds (or could ever find) the body. So it stops being a sneaky judgement call about safe places to hide bodies and starts being a matter of "oh right I have to jump through the game's hoops to make sure they body isn't marked as found".Or to put it another way, if there's a room that nobody ever enters then it should be a safe place to stash a body even if it's fully lit, right? Nope, ALARM ALARM
When I first played CT, I thought the only way to get a perfect stealth rating was to fully ghost a level. I vaguely recall being able to do that until the bath house which I hated as a level. The bank level when fully ghosting was EXTREMELY fun and was the closest thing to Thief I've played outside of Thief.My enjoyment of CT did drop when I realized you didn't have to ghost and you could just go around KOing everyone easily with all your ranged equipment. It's a me-problem but I guess seeing that showed the devs approach to stealth design wasn't as tight as I wanted it to be and they expected you to get your hands dirty.
>>739739676You can still ghost Bathhouse. It just requires a bit of finesse with stun and smoke nades. Sticky cameras can be used as distractions and delaying mechanisms at the end (guards will stop to shoot them).Also, the guard who stands next to Shetland during his meeting has night vision and will silently spot you in the vent. Even though he's scripted to not react, it still counts in the mission rating. You need to sit back in the vent so that he doesn't see you.
>>739737342>(If you ko/kill a guard in a remote dark area where nobody else ever patrols and leave them where they fall, that's an automatic body found alarm at the end of the map. If you pick them up and put them back down in the same place, that counts as hiding them. So you have to do a pick-up-put-down dance with everyone.)Sheit I did not know this. I knew you had to hide them in full dark but I did not know that even if you knock them out in the dark you still must pick the body up. That is some bullshit lol. Last time I played the games I tried my best to not kill so many guards if I could get away with doing so. I knew I'd have to hide a ton of bodies if I tried knocking everyone out or killing them. I figured it would be more fun to play it by sneaking past them anyways rather than knocking everyone out.
>>739741096For fairness I should point out this other anon >>739737662 who thinks I'm wrong and that bodies only need to be in darkness. I swear I remember needing to move them though.
In case you guys don't know, you can do the coop missions in CT as a single player. Just go into map folder and rename the coop mission files with the SP mission names. You can't complete the main objectives in most levels, but you can use noclip cheats to get to the end or just explore the levels.
>>739738035play on a keyboard to solve the stick problem, mouse wheel is better
>>739720223It's a niche genre that also shafted itself by trying to be more mainstream with 'press X to awesome' kind of features. By now AAA avoids it completely, indies can barely put together turds like Keepsake County, and only occasionally you run into something passable like Styx. It's also not flashy enough to work for VTubers, and modern audiences are too dumb and hyper to enjoy sneaking around, exploration, or thinking outside the box.
>>739720223>>739744969intravenous existsThe real reason the stealth genre is kind of dead is because most of its flagships are either mediocre or deeply mixed/dilluted with other genres. There are plenty of successful exploration or braincell-using games that were successful these days, theres no reason why it couldnt happen for stealth (and it did just now)In fact i actually think its kind of laughable to blame people for "not exploring and thinking outside the box" when fellating Splinter Cell, a game that is overwhelmingly linear and railroaded as shit, with most levels infested with obvious paths intended by the developer as blatantly the only options it was actually built around (ie: everything else feeling either comically silly or unfeasible)
>>739745174Anon, you have to understand how dumb, lazy and easily discouraged people have become. If they have to rack their brains on a problem for more than twenty seconds without any hints or yellow paint, if they can't brute force a section with quickloading alone, if they can't nuke enemies into a pile of gore and gibs, they give up and leave a bad review.
>>739738760There were at least two other games like this, one sucked and the other has hardly any players, forgot their names. I think most players would rather play prophunt-likes.
