What caused the revisionism? this was hated on release and for like ten years after.
>>739818387No it hasn't
>>739818387nah it was a massive successabsolute masterpieceDC/PS2 level graphics on the 64
>>739818387Lol no. It was cool and a good side story expansion pack for ocarina
>>739818445>>739818786>>739818923Seriously, what is the cause of what you're doing right now.
>NO YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR OPINIONS OVER TIME, THAT IS LE REVISIONISM
It wasn't. The only revisionism is hate that comes from BOTW fanatics and OP being gay.
>>739820957Alright I'm calling it now, you faggots are young is what this all is.
>>739818387I liked it. Dont really give a shit what others thought
>>739818387Why are you lying?
>>739818387Millenials got some of the best games ever but base their entire lives on hating them, you faggots lived through the golden era of gaming and you're still ungrateful.
>>739818387>breath of the wild coper can't handle that everyone hates his game projecting onto mm.Faggot.
>>739820796>PLEASE SAY THE GAME IS BAD, IF YOU LIKE THIS GAME YOU'RE ENGAGING IN REVISIONISM!!!fuck off, retard.
>>739820796outside of india, people don't lie about everything
because kids legitimately got lost in the beggining and graphics
It's a "hard game" when you're a kid, but on returning to the series, OOT is actually a little too easy.
>>739821409Halo sucks, however. Master Chief has the charisma of a sock.And Sonic Adventure 2 sucks.
>>739821721what is hard about itgo back to youtube retard
>>739821770>only 2 examplesThe FF Games? The Zelda Games? The Sonic Genesis Games? I could go on, regardless of how you want to spin it, Gen X got some of the best games.
>>739821848Literally who says the FF games or the Sonic Genesis games are bad?>well, this one e-celeb...Okay, so no one.
>>739821837kids didn't like the time limit and it was hard to get your bearings at the start of the game
>>739818387I never hated it on release. What caused the revisionism is that all the normalfags that tried it stopped caring about it after they moved on to the next zelda to hate on: Wind Waker
/v/ is so dogshit now, how young are you faggots really
>>739821837I played it when I was 9, and I was shit at games. it was hard.In retrospect, it's actually just a decently balanced game that expects you to use your brain a bit, and OOT is baby tier until like the Water Temple.
>>739821409millenial derangement syndrome
>>739818387It wasn't hated but it was seen as a throw away side-game. Note that it actually sold worse than Wind Waker, the game that actually got lots of hate but was still seen as the next big Zelda game in comparison to MM. In later years it just became reevalued because it's the only OoT style 3d Zelda clearly built for people who had already finished a 3d Zelda, rather than being another introductory "first Zelda" game.
>>739818387>this was hated on release and for like ten years afterNo it wasn't, Rajeesh.
It didn't have the hype of OOT but it was far from hated.What gives away that you are a zoomer, is that we didn't have social media back then to manufacture a consensus like "it was hated". There was no market for rage-bait youtube video essays about how much certain games sucked. If you didn't like a game you just didn't play it and moved on.Far from the current state where everyone HAS to have the same opinion and has to share every dumb thought in their head with everyone else.
>>739822509I really love the concept of quickly developed sequels that reuse a lot of assets, but crank up the difficulty because they presume you played the previous game.Nintendo only ever really did that with MM and Mario Galaxy 2, both of which are great.I would have loved Wind Waker 2 and Mario Odyssey 2.
>>739822509>>739822758MM has a lot of side quests that require observing the schedule and figuring out what and when certain things are needed, rather than side quests involving bring X to someone at Y place. I wish there were more games that felt like fully realized romhacks with more interesting stories like MM.
>>739818387The industry was critical of it because they've always been clowns. The agenda was basically just>Japanese game by Japanese dev on Japanese console has fundamentally changed the industry and is literally beyond all criticism>Sequel is a much smaller and more experimental project that reuses assets, and thus open to critique That's it. They had a vested interest in shitting on OoTs legacy without attacking OoT directly because its success was a threat to the western games industry. MM was just perceived as an easy target.For as long as 4chan has existed, MM has been venerated by it. First as the contrarian opinion, and then in the late 2000s as the mainstream one, as we all grew up and realized the hate campaign against it that we saw as kids was literally just a threatened industry lashing out at a foreign competitor.The game itself has always been good and anybody that actually played it can attest to that
I've never liked MM, but it had an enthusiastic cult even in the early 2000s. As one might expect it was the favorite of weirdo goth/scene kids. I admire its slight warpedness as well, but I don't care for what it emphasizes in its gameplan. It's impressive what they pulled off in such a short amount of time, though.
Majora's Mask had a counter culture fanbase on release, but it was largely perceived as Zelda 2 difficult that many did not play it. Didn't happen it required the RAM expansion, I know I didn't play it on N64 because of that restriction. N64 8MB RAM games were like 80 dollars back in the day compared to the 40-50 dollar ones. I played Majora's Mask on the GameCube. Majora's Mask reputation evened out by the 3DS remake and its considered a standard must-play Zelda game. How it shed its hardcore reputation from N64 to GameCube to 3DS is the real debate.All those /x/ and YouTube folklore scary stories is probably what propelled Majora's Mask higher over its age in the masses. We're not here to debate the 3DS port on its strengths/flaws, just on the perception of the game and its popularity.
>>739818387I was like 6-7 when it came out and had no access to the internet. It's still my favorite.
>>739822592>>739824497Correct, people did not hate bandwagon Majora's Mask like the mentally ill Steam fag mind that haunts /v/, Reddit, and YouTube talking about Steam Charts. We did not have the type of discourse about Majora's Mask that modern social media inhabits. A good chunk of people heard about the time restriction and simply did not want to play it. Or like me they couldn't afford the 8MB pack + the game itself. Majora's Mask was seen a sidestory game by people who didn't like it and a curiosity at that. People were not raging at Majora's Mask at any given time, maybe they wrote a negative review and moved on. Most of the 2000s Zelda fanbase discourse was the Spaceworld 2000 demo and the Wind Waker's Celshading, not raging about Majora's Mask in a significant fashion. N64 emulation and on those terrible 1990s laptop were not fun or even realistic with the standard keyboard layout of the day, that left the N64 and its 8MB requirement the only way to play it until the GameCube port arrived. GameCube was the turning point for Majora's Mask reputation going upward over the course of its history.Unrelated but I don't say this often, Malon and OoT/MM Link are the bloodline of the Twilight Princess Link. True headcanon that's close to being canon.
I remember it being called the black sheep of the series until that title moved to WW.
>>739824968What currently holds the black sheep of the franchise mantle for Zelda? Removing the spinoffs like Hyrule Warriors. There hasn't been that many new Zelda games to give that to so by default Echoes of Wisdom? The 3DS Zelda games didn't have controversies, A Link to the Past 2/Link Between Worlds is exceptionally strong. Nothing wrong with Link's Awakening Switch remake, the 2 open world Zelda games don't generate enough discourse outside of the Balding Gate 3 fanboy doing flame wars on 4chan.At minimum I would give it to Echoes of Wisdom as the black sheep of modern Zelda discourse, with Tears of the Kingdom as a runner up. I didn't play Skyward Sword so maybe that's the one? I have nothing to say about that one. I'm one of the few people who played Four Swords Adventures GameCube with 3-4 people regularly and the GBA multiplayer mode so all of you in this thread bow down to your Zelda elders.
>>739825230My first thought was TOTK.
I liked it as a kid. The transformations blew my mind. Wish the wolf in TP was half as cool. Even being a deku scrub was more fun than wolf Link.
>>739818387>this was hated on release and for like ten years afterMaybe in whatever retarded social bubble you were part of
>>739821409gen x'ers actually had the very best games ever
>>739822131my experience too. i puzzled out OoT on my own but MM's time limit filtered me. i didnt finish it until i 100%ed it on my buddy's wii years later
>>739818387It wasn't hated anon, there were people who disagreed about being THE BEST so it caught strays but it was always pretty well liked.I can see getting the impression if you are just wikiwalking and seeing "OoT is the best" arguers taking potshots on it and calling all who like it "contrarians and hipsters" though. The one that ACTUALLY got hate and then modern revisionism was WW, and even then it wasn't THAT bad.
>>739825303Skyward Sword vs TOTK vs Echoes of Wisdom in the biggest hater bait boxing ring. I would personally pick Tears of the Kingdom from this selection because what it did to the lore was so devastating it removed any motivation for me to play the new Hyrule Warriors Age of whatever. Putting aside the conversation of a Zelda timeline as a large series aside, Breath and Tears are disconnected because of narrative flaws they put in Tears. Nintendo didn't want new players to feel left out by skipping Breath, which added layers of systemic narrative flaws. They also didn't fully answer lingering lore questions about Breath's world of ancient races, completely killing my investment in its world building which is what the Age of Imprisonment game is supposed to be.God I fucking hate the person who wrote the contiuniuity of the 2 open world Zelda games, they just did not give a single fuck whatsoever about those two's lore foundation. You can literally do a multi-quest in TOTK about some Zonai semen compound and the NPC would just say "damn what a mystery" then QUEST CLEAR with no answers. Would've love to know what was up with all those giant dragon like skeletons from Breath of the Wild because Tears of the Kingdom did not care at all. Majora's Mask did not need to answer all the questions, they felt self-contained. TOTK does not give a shit and oddly affected its separate Zelda timeline (Hyrule Warrior 2 prequels and Tears/Breath).We never saw Rauru's kids or why the bloodline continued because the writer didn't care. Or how 2 Breath and Tears Ganons were co-existing because the writers didn't care. Lunacy shit happened with Tears writing and lore team.
>>739818387You complain about newfags being newfags and don't even know about the zelda cycle?
>>739822509Yeah. Majora's Mask was seen as a weird game that wasn't really "Zelda" in the same way Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, or even Link's Awakening was. Even now, 100%ing it is nearly impossible without a guide or if you have an unlimited amount of time on your hands.
>>739825739>implying it was ever considered the best by the general publicI kinda agree with OP, this revisionism feels weird, it's so bizarre.
>>739826267We know OP, stop replying to yourself. No one at the time thought Majora's Mask was a 10/10 flawless game, it had a small dedicated fanbase and it was much smaller than you believe because it required an expensive RAM expansion and PC emulation of N64 was behind and not keyboard friendly, limiting the numbers of players again. Majora's Mask hit its peak word of mouth popularity when the GameCube port was released, but you OP (sad samefag) were still in your father's ballsack at the time.The fact anons here thought Majora's Mask would've been a top seller is insane with the fact it had a reputation of being difficult, it was similar looking to OoT (which was not doing it favors and seen as something you could skip), and it had an expensive RAM expansion requirement in its initial release.Fuck zoomers and fuck gen alpha too.
>>739825230Skyward Sword. People are still funny about Skyward Sword, which is literally not a bad game.
>>739818387>this was hated on release50% people crying about the time limit, 50% crying about reused assets (even though it had plenty of new assets)>and for like ten years afterno, people warmed up to it in hindsight once they got over the minor quibbles
>>739826524>things I never saidTrying too hard, I honestly don't care if you missed out and now you are desperate to recover the time lost, anyone that liked it back then know how it was treated, if you really want to be part of it, go ahead, put all your effort on making up stories, it validates me.
>>739826160>100%ing it is nearly impossible without a guide or if you have an unlimited amount of time on your hands.which part do you think isn't intuitive? the only real argument is knowing you need to do anju and kafei twice
>>739826267See, it's fucking weird isn't it. Everyone is acting like it wasn't the blacksheep. I'm not even sure when and how it happened. I can't get a straight answer out of these posers.
>>739826831Did you even play the game?
>>739826267You misunderstand what i mean anon, What im saying is that (a non-majority of) people arguing MM>OoT at the time triggered the fuck out of people making them talk shit vocally, but that did not mean a majority of people went around saying MM was Bad or hated the game. But the DISCOURSE could give that impression. It was specifically the discourse around THE BEST being what largely brought out the negative, not the discourse of if it was good at all.WW caught strays because of the graphics and Ocean, Tri Force Hunt (that i actually like) and "4 dungeons" (just like MM, and also not really, people were just weirdly disclusive regarding shit like Tower of the Gods and Forsaken Fortress.), but people are more appreciative of it now, in part because emulation and the remakes "fix" shit.
>>739826018Oh I know Zelda cycle, right now Totk is on the receiving end.
>>739826732People also used smaller dungeon count against Majora's Mask. I know because I was there. Only zoomers think Majora's Mask had this spotless reputation since release.
>>739825835You kidding? Totk takes place after Wind Waker, areas from any other game that would have taken place are scattered all over the game world. There's rock salt to find everywhere because an ocean has obviously dried up.
>>739818387people who hate it love to loudly state they hate it because they think it gives them a personality (it doesnt) a majority of people enjoyed the unique twist at the time, it was something that wasn't done, a safe sequel was what everyone expected and they delivered kino in less than a year
>>739826995What I remember is that it wasn't exactly hate, it was more something like "I don't like it, I didn't even play it", then it exploded in popularity, I guess it was essayists but I also blame the shitty Ben Drowned creepy pasta.
>>739827110You are sorta right on that, almost no one played it or even knew anything about it, like Earthbound and most recently Star Fox.
>>739827292TOTK will not recover from its reputation because of its massive narrative flaws. The Japanese and English script of Tears of the Kingdom are different enough that Nintendo of America created blatant issues not found in the original version. >The Japanese Script: The phrasing used by NPCs and within Zelda’s own diary heavily implies a shared domestic life. When discussing the house, Japanese text utilizes phrases that indicate the home belongs to both of them collectively. Furthermore, Zelda's secret room contains specific Japanese honorifics and domestic nouns that confirm Link was living there as her co-habitant and personal protector, not a detached employee.>The English Translation: The localization deliberately scrubbed away the domestic warmth. By aggressively replacing shared pronouns with individual ones (changing "our home" to "Zelda's house"), NoA over-corrected to ensure new players wouldn't feel alienated by a pre-existing romance, inadvertently making it look like Zelda took Link's house.>3. The Tone of the Zora and Rito RelationshipsHow the regional leaders interact with Link differs starkly in tone, altering how much their BotW history matters.The Japanese Script: Sidon, Riju, and Yunobo speak to Link with a high level of colloquial intimacy based on their specific BotW bonds. Sidon, for example, uses Japanese grammar and pronouns that convey deep, familial brotherhood.>The English Translation: The English voice acting and dialogue lean into a formal, mythic register. Characters frequently refer to Link by grand titles like "The Swordsman" or "The Hero" rather than his name. While meant to sound epic, this corporate-sounding reverence makes Link’s closest friends sound like distant business associates who are merely aware of his reputation, rather than people who fought alongside him.Just fuck up my already weak continuity even further Nintendo of America Treehouse team.
>>739827585Doesn't matter. And Skyward Sword is way worse and still has apologists.
>>739825230It's 100% totk. It instantly killed all the optimism people had for the new formula coming off of botw. Even the criticism against echoes is largely spillover from dissatisfaction with totk and its implications for the direction of the series.
>>739818387MM was just DLC for OOTit was basically TOTK 1
>By acting as if the cataclysmic events of BotW barely happened, the world-building loses all internal logic.>The Calamity Deniers: The Calamity plagued Hyrule for a century. Giant mechanical beasts loomed over every horizon, and terrifying laser-shooting Guardians littered the fields. To have that massive, century-long trauma completely vanished with zero monuments, ruins of ancient tech, or even historical dialogue from the NPCs is an unnatural erasure of a nation's history.>Nintendo’s lapse of judgment lies in assuming that newcomer accessibility requires rewriting history.Other legendary direct sequels—like Mass Effect 2, The Witcher 3, or even God of War Ragnarök—successfully welcome new players without pretending the events of the previous game never happened. They use brief recap videos, codex entries, or subtle dialogue choices to catch new players up, while still honoring the narrative expectations of returning fans. By choosing to completely ignore BotW's narrative footprint, TotK sacrifices its integrity as a sequel to serve purely as a standalone playground.There is a funny quirk to all this. Zelda officially has Calamity Denial as part of its canon. Those giant robotic spiders that leveled villages and erased whole family lines? Yeah, I didn't see it so it didn't happen. Hyrule Castletown being a nest of hellspawn and alien robot things? WERE YOU THERE? DIDN'T THINK SO. The whole narrative of Tears of the Kingdom did so damage to itself, its direct predecessor, and the Hyrule Warrior spinoffs by completely evaporating their pillars of world building. Sheikah tech and the Divine Beasts disappeared? Yeah, did you take a picture of it buddy? Didn't exist, checkmate for historians of the Zelda BOTW/TOTK world.Just so newcomers wouldn't feel lost in Tears of the Kingdom and they didn't feel the need to answer all the mystery nigga tech of the Breath of the Wild ancient civilizations. There's loads of examples of poor English localization.
>>739818387It was the black sheep next to Ocarina. No one wants to be the boring guy who says his favorite thing is the most popular thing. Everyone wants to be the special snowflake who is above the common man intillectually. Hence everyone's favorite Zelda becoming Majora but only after a few years of OoT topping every best games ever list.
>>739827585Well that's easily fixable, there's nothing that can be done except spread the word about it, but if you want this to go through the hordes of apologists go easy on the hate against translators, they will focus on it and the message will be lost.
The people who liked it were busy playing it when people who hated it were whining, and after a while people who play these games as a kid grow up and start reminiscing about the good times. That's how it always works.
>>739826995>Everyone is acting like it wasn't the blacksheepBecause it wasn't. I didn't have an n64 so I didn't play it at the time. But of my friends that did, all of them liked it and one of them loved it and it was his favorite game.
>>739818387No it wasn't. It was wanked online and at school in the 2000s endlessly. It wasn't till 2010s when you were even allowed to criticize how mid it is.
>>739818387Roughly only half the audience of OoT actually played MM upon release, and so of course half of those people were filtered by the time mechanic, complaining about reused assets and I also recall complaining that there was no Ganon/Zelda (aside from the brief moment in the first cycle) or Hyrule present in the game, and those complaints probably echoed over to people who never played the game. Then I recall the game was voted game of the decade on GameFaqs in 2010 which probably garnered some attention and encouraged more people to play it. Then it gained even more attention through the Ben Drowned creepypasta and the Stages of Grief theory which later got amplified on Game Theory in 2013. Basically, everyone finally started playing it and realized it was a good game.
>>739818387Wasn't this loved on release?The only complaints ive ever seen is "stressed by time".
>>739827585Within ten years Totk will be seen as a classic Zelda game.
>>739828064Appreciate the effort, but it means jack when your assessment is wrong.
>>739828290>go to alternate universe>characters are reused and people are madI think i recall that a bit but do people not understand alt realities lol
>>739828436Within 100 years your corpse will be ashen
>>739828064To be fair there's time travel involved but there's also that school in Hateno that is focused on teaching the kids about the calamity, but I don't remember if they mention the events of botw.
>>739818387Outside this site I have never seen anyone do anything but suck off this game when it came up
>>739827764>and still has apologistsBarely. Which is proof the zelda cycle isn't real. People still overwhelmingly dislike skyward sword, people still shit on the triforce hunt and baby dungeons. The same proportion of people that didn't like the three day timer still don't like it. Shitting on divine beasts and durability were already common complaints even during the lengthy honeymoon period. The only major flip in opinion concerning any zelda game is windwaker's artstyle. And that's part of broader industry trends than just zelda.
>The lax and uncaring approach to continuity that defined Tears of the Kingdom directly bled into how the fanbase treats its spin-off media. When Nintendo released Hyrule Warriors: Age of Imprisonment on the Nintendo Switch 2, it was heavily marketed as a canonical, "true prequel" exploring the grand Imprisoning War briefly teased in TotK's dragon tears memories.Despite improving mechanically and selling well, Age of Imprisonment has failed to leave a longstanding narrative footprint in community discourse. It suffered a rapid decline in fan engagement because Nintendo’s overarching design philosophy had already taught the player base a cynical lesson: nothing that happens in a "prequel" or spin-off actually matters to the future of the franchise.>Fans quickly realized that analyzing the lore of Rauru, Sonia, Mineru, and the ancient sages was a pedantic exercise.>Its predecessor, Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, sparked massive, multi-year fan debates because it completely subverted expectations by introducing a split, "what-if" timeline where the Champions survived.>The biggest barrier to Age of Imprisonment having a longstanding narrative impact was that Tears of the Kingdom had already done a poor job establishing the stakes of its own historical war. In TotK, the memories depict the "war" as a singular, brief skirmish where Ganondorf effortlessly swats away Rauru and his six sages in a small courtyard.Reminder this is all Tears of the Kingdom's fault in favor of onboarding newfags to the world of Breath of the Wild. Corporate mandated retardation to the dialogue/continuity, lmao. Everyone headcanons that Link is so uninteresting, schizo calamity conspiracy theorists, or NPCs have memories to deal with the BoTW to TOTK discourse. It did give us Purah's older hag body who killed trillions of my sperm.
>>739818387disgusting retarded liar or zoobmie. this was immediately heralded by all zeldafags i knew and never stopped being so.
>>739818387I loved it on release and was arguing in its favor back in the day on GameFAQs.
>>739822235more than half the time they're complaining about gen x. zoomers too retarded to even know what ages are lol
>>739828583There's apparently 2 timelines in the Breath/Tears universe. The BoTW to TOTK timeline and the Hyrule Warriors What If Timeline to Breath of the Wild timeline which we haven't seen after that game ended with a new history taking root.
>>739828604AVGN was handed a script to hate it, since then zoomers think they have a free pass to shit on it
>>739818387I bet this faggot got his opinion off a youtuber
>Ancient Stones? Demon King Ganon? >Sheikah technology?>1000 feet robotic hellscape?>Didn't happen>lol 2 Ganon existing at the same time in Hyrule Castle as a specter and in the basement as a mummy, do they know each other?>don't know lol t. Tears of the KingdomApologize to Skyward Sword's writing and world building. And to Fi RIGHT NOW.
>>739825540That's millennials too retard, everything since the Snes/Genesis is
>>739829019>>lol 2 Ganon existing at the same time in Hyrule Castle as a specter and in the basement as a mummy, do they know each other?Anon, the Calamity Ganon was product of the Mummy Ganondorf, it was explained right at the beginning of totk.
>>739828436Totk will never have the same revival as Majora's Mask did because it sold almost as well as BoTW did and people are already realizing how overrated it is. Its mechanics and story have been dismantled over time rather than elevated.
>>739828831I played HW but I just couldn't get into it, so in the second timeline the Champions survive, right? Wonder if they'll use that for the new Zelda
I played this before Ocarina, I lived in the stick so there was no blockbuster but a small film developing shop that also lended vhs and games. I picked this because the super cool looking box, we had to pay extra for the expansion pack too i remember my mom not being happy with that.
>>739829251Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear. Timeline A) Hyrule Warriors Age of Imprisonment is followed by Breath of the Wild then followed by Tears of the Kingdom. This timeline is inherently flawed by TOTK retroactively ruining its core narrative pillars with massive in-universe logic issues like Sheikah tech being ignored by the population/Divine Beasts disappearing/Link's reputation being completely ignored by 99% of the population. Timeline B) Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity scenario ends with the 4 Guardians surviving which overwrites the history of Breath of the Wild completely. Essentially if Nintendo were to ever go back to Breath of the Wild this is a blank canvas they can use. This could even feature a brand new Link that has nothing to do with the BoTW/TOTK Link we play as. This could serve even as a 2D or 2.5D style game, it is completely divorced from the future Tears of the Kingdom is.I personally prefer the 4 Guardians surviving timeline even if its narrative cheap, it feels at least more consistent than how all of Tears of the Kingdom completely butch the world building of its own game and its predecessors. Quite impressive feat of writing just so Nintendo wouldn't make newcomers feel confused going into TOTK blind.
>>739829131Not them and i didnt finish botw and never touched totk--Wasn't calamity Ganon the "spirit" of the first ever Ganon entity and is the hatred or malice of that guy? (Unless mummy Ganon you refer to is the original Ganon who made the happy cloud malice Ganon)I think i just answered my own question though...
>>739822967The Bomber's Notebook basically does all this for you
>>739826831I was specifically thinking of Anju and Kafei but there are so many others.>knowing where the frogs are and getting them together unless you specifically took notes on where to find them when you got them the first time>getting all 50 heart pieces >the whole sequence of getting the Gilded Sword and knowing that there is a time limit, if you get the gold dust on the afternoon of Day Two, you're already too lateOn a long enough scale and/or sufficient autism it is very possible but most people aren't going to dedicate 40+ hours to it and/or just use a guide for those last parts.
>>739829248Of course it will, and you're a fucking fool to think other wise. It's textbook Zelda Cycle.
>>739830065It's ironic that the original comment was trying to pass off not knowing the Zelda cycle, only for them to ultimately not get it about Totk. Same fucking shit.
>>739829761>>739829131In Breath of the Wild the world was nearly destroyed with the boar purple mist Ganon started taking over the Sheikah tech. Zelda temporarily stopped Ganon from fully manifesting so he's in a weird limbo of reincarnation. I don't know where I read this but it sounded like this BOTW Ganon gave up a traditional human/pig form of power in favor of being pure malice that could be killed. Again that's just my recollection. Tears of the Kingdom retcons this (without even saying this outright) that while this version of Ganon was up above constrained by Zelda, the physical body of Ganon was constrained by the first king of Hyrule Rauru. What the Breath of the Wild world experienced as a calamity was just the captive underneath Hyrule Castle Ganondorf mummy powers leaking out of control. The game never confirms this connection and he never addresses this in the past or the future. It is just something the players from the first game as supposed to logically connect, even if its inherently very flawed in-universe logic.There shouldn't be two Ganons, lol. Much less one Ganon that's sentient and another that is half-way into reincarnation but was held in place for a hundred years by Zelda. Poor writing like all of TOTK is everywhere, the defense force talks Zelda timeline when this game destroys its predecessor and its own continuity completely. Also sacred stones? Demon King Ganon? 4 times. Say it 4 times.
>>739829761Yeah, the Malice is the physical hatred of Ganon which created the Calamity, Zelda notices it is still seeping through the castle and went down the caves to investigate with Link, then Ganon revives when he senses them and TotK starts
>>739818387why re you lying
>>739830223The narrative discrepancy regarding Ganon "giving up on reincarnation" is one of the most famous translation errors in modern Zelda history. It completely changes the stakes of Breath of the Wild’s ending, but ironically, the original Japanese script perfectly aligns with the two-Ganon reality of Tears of the Kingdom, whereas the English translation breaks it entirely.>During the final phase of the boss fight in BotW, Zelda’s English voiceover states:"He has given up on reincarnation and assumed his pure, enraged form.">The Japanese Script: In the original Japanese version of Breath of the Wild, Zelda says something entirely different:復活を諦めない妄念から暴走した姿…(This rampaging form is born from his obsessive refusal to give up on revival…)>In Japanese, Calamity Ganon was never the "final form" of a dying villain. It was an extension of a trapped mummy that desperately, obsessively kept trying to regenerate its missing physical presence on the surface world .When Link destroys Dark Beast Ganon at the end of BotW, he doesn't kill Ganondorf's soul or stop a reincarnation cycle; he merely pops the massive, volatile balloon of localized malice that was screaming to be born. The original Japanese text naturally prepares the player to eventually find the "root engine" feeding that obsession beneath the castle.lol 2 Ganon is still a shit idea
>>739829978the part of the frogs is really bullshit because since you gotta reset the 3 day cycle you can't just kill the enemy and use the frog mask to gather them as soon as you find them, you gotta know where they are, have almost all of the temples done then re do them again until you find them so you can finally gather them around, im 90% sure you can skip this since it only gives 1/4 of a hearth as a reward.
>>739818387It takes a while for the "How X Breaks You" crowd to start orbiting enough to hit critical mass.
>>739830153>There shouldn't be two Ganons, lol.There isn't
>>739830443Yeah that's what I said, the malice comes from the mummy
>>739818387I just want to play the PC ports of Oot and MM but the modding community is just full of stinky BRs, Poojeets and trannies who can't model or texture for shit, its always 100% garbage. There is no such thing as a talented purist in that community just pozz brained faggets with autism.
>>739830223>>739830153Well maybe the mist calamity ganon is malevolent energy purely like phantom ganon from oot.I never beat ww (being in water forever on a ship sucks imo), but isnt the boat the king and he froze time beneath the temple? This is the same thing as totk?
>>739830571Correct, there are about a dozen Ganon in Tears of the Kingdom due to random malice Ganon popping out. Or Gloom or whatever the fuck the dumb writing team decided to go with when they retconned all of Breath of the Wild in their effort to maintain a newplayer friendly approach to TOTK world building and continuity. I felt so robbed when the climax of Hyrule Castle in Tears was just another Phantom Malice Gloom whatever Ganon, goddamn that shit felt SO half-assed and copy pasted.>DEMON KING GANON?>SACRED STONES?>ANCIENT WAR?I'm growing to think of TOTK as a junk food game, inoffensive on its own but they need to recognize they messed up big time.
>>739818387Was it? I remember thinking it was weird but cool. I used a strategy guide to do everything.
i played it at release and loved it
>>739829978The gilded sword is extremely straightforward. You waste your time and rupees one cycle and then you know. The frogs are no more obscure than a normal zelda secret. The only ones that are particularly out of the way where you won't stumble upon them again are the dungeon ones. But you should at least remember that there were frogs in the dungeons which narrows it down to four places. Getting all the heart pieces is hard. But that's true for most zelda games.
For every anon that posts in this thread, there is one Malice Ganon respawning in Tears of the Kingdom universe. Potentially the entire world is full of a Ganon circlejerk at any given time. All of them could each have the Triforce of Power or maybe not, who cares right its TOTK world building and lore.Something to think about next time you talk shit about Skyward Sword's lore.
>>739830805It's time to kill yourself, being as wrong as you is super gay.
>>739825230From an outside perspective TotK is really anomalous. It's like when a manga has a really hyped ending that turns out to be terrible and the internet just collectively memory-holes the existence of the series entirely. That's what it felt like TotK did to mentions of BotW.
>>739831160Demon King? Sacred Stones?
>>739824831This, MM wasn't as beloved as OOT but nobody in the year 2000 hated it. they either didn't play it or they liked it because it was more OOT content even if they only beat it once and then went back to OOT. There weren't jaded manchildern playing video games 26 years ago and internet console wars/hated games didn't really exist pre youtube/social media, with the exception of the odd message board like gamefaqs but even then they were well moderated. So no one was being called a retarded faggot while debating MM vs OOT.>getting all 50 heart pieces.OOT has the Dampe Grave heart piece and big poe bottle. TP has the Poe collecting where poes only come out at night and there's no sun song. Every Zelda game has a couple collectables that aren't worth unless you've beaten the game and you're just looking for a reason to keep playing.>the whole sequence of getting the Gilded Sword and knowing that there is a time limit, if you get the gold dust on the afternoon of Day Two, you're already too late.If you fuck up, all you have to do is Goron racing on the next cycle, you don't even have to beat snowhead if you have a powderkeg and if you don't want to bother with it ,great fairy sword better anyways. None of the masks outside the Couples mask are that annoying to collect and that's all that really matters. You don't need to get the beaver bottle or all the heart pieces.
>>739831272Console wars have always existed.
>>739831357Not in the same way they existed from 2010 onward.
>>739831272You weren't around then if you think people weren't console warring then. Where do you think the jokes about OoT Link and Cloud Strife being gay originated?
>>739830757Why not just download your port of choice and use the vanilla textures? Why do people insist on texture packs?>>739831032That's the point, if you trial and error everything, make notes of where you found stuff (on paper, on the computer, in your head), and brute-force everything then everything will eventually shake loose, but you'd have to dedicate a LOT of time to it. That's the point.
>>739830762I guess it's the influence of Ganon,
>Zelda thread about dark horse games or unpopular >zero mention of the Nintendo DS forced touch screen Zelda control gamesChoo Choo Train and boat Link Aonuma worshipers enjoying the thread from a safe distance. I think of the 2D Zeldas the weakest is Minish Cap simply because it lacks so much content, functionally and mechanically its got a solid foundation but it feels the most lacking compared to its big brothers Oracle and Link's Awakening.
>>739831828I enjoyed both the DS Zeldas. Personally I think Skyward Sword is the worst one, what a waste of potential.
>>739831828The only thing I didn't enjoy about ST is that I suck at spatial orientation and I got lost completely at several points, loved the trains.
>>739818387>>739820796Always liked majora's maskAlways liked twilight princessAlways liked skyward swordAlways hated windwakerAlways hated breath of the wildAlways hated tears of the kingdomI've never changed these opinions
>>739818387OoT had universal appeal. MM had niche appeal. those normal universal folk aren't living on fumes of nostalgia on shitty internet forums. so you only hear from the niche weirdos, and secondary hipsters.
>>739832305Is SS that good? I need to play it someday
>>739823258the west didn't have a fucking games industry when this came out. apart from Rare, who were already Nintendos exotic baby
>>739832436It's got a lot of flaws, but when it's doing things well, it's doing them REALLY well. Switch port fixes like, 80% of the issues. the ones that remain are still pretty egregious though
>>739832436It has really good dungeons the open world is a bit shit though and the motion combat gimmick gets old except when you're doing stuff like bombs then it's fun again
>>739822235>>739828815>you have good games, why are you complaining?>ZOOMERS!! YOU ZOOMERS ARE ATTACKING ME!! M-MILLENIAL DERANGEMENT SYNDROME!!fucking retards.
>>739831473>but you'd have to dedicate a LOT of time to itNot appreciably more than other zelda games. Stuff like modern souls inspired super hard bosses that most players have to fight dozens of times to beat are bigger time sinks than going through another cycle for the gilded sword or checking the wrong dungeon for a frog.
>>739830757>There is no such thing as a talented purist in that community just pozz brained faggets with autism.Recomp would exist, and that has a far more integrity focused community who don't treat the games as streamer material to the point where they hide options that force easter eggs into the game by default, but OoT recomp has basically been abandoned.
>>739830473This is a prime example of how the game drags out what would otherwise be simple quests into tedious bullshit.
I know it’s dumb but one of my favorite things about MM is being able to collect a bunch of health upgrades before entering the first dungeon.
>>739831272>Every Zelda game has a couple collectables that aren't worth unless you've beaten the game and you're just looking for a reason to keep playing.To be fair, most of the series is actually shockingly difficult to fully 100%. Virtually every one has has some utterly obscure or weird bullshit that you'd be hard pressed to do on your own.
>>739818387By who? I always liked it
>>739832305It's not the best Zelda game by any means but it is decent. Which by the metrics of /v/ make it underrated as everyone seems to hate that game with a passion.
>>739833669I've been calling the game a chores simulator.
>>739832436It's very good but it's insane how bogged down it is by the handholding while also being very linear.
>>739828290Running out of time on the first loop as Deku while I fuck around clock town and then realised the moon that was actually fucking moving closer crashed on me was a formative experience for me, and I recognized kino from that moment and I was only like 6. I didn't give a single fuck about it not having Ganon, was not filtered by the time mechanic, and wasn't even filtered by that shitty egg quest in act 3. Game is unfiltered kino. My generation be damned.
>>739834965The empty sky really let me down, that part was what had me so excited because I loved the sailing in Wind Waker.
>>739818387peanut butter gamer and the youtube sphere of influence made millennial era games skyrocket in reputation in the 2010s
>>739834798It's fanboys need to hear that.I have no issue with people loving MM, it's a really cool game that does a lot of creative, in depth stuff that it's rightly praised for, but dear god is it so riddled with flaws and tedious bullshit and an all round lack of 'professionalism' that OoT is contrastingly excellent at due the rest development and asset reuse. The way diehard fans of it just cannot go "hey, I love it, but I understand why you'd find x and y very offputting" and have to act like they're better and have superior taste due to how they can stomach the game's problems is something that annoys me.
>>739826831?? MM was the first Zelda game i ever 100%'d, and i never used a guide. literally the only hard thing to figure out was Kafei's questline.
>>739835178The three day cycle is cool exactly one hour into the game, then if you have an iq over 100 you have to accept the fact it's going to just pad out everything you're doing. What's wild is how it made me reappraise open world games, the sheer fact I can leave quests that have some level of urgency on hold until I'm ready, is precisely what a hero of time should be doing, in a game about mastery over time. By default, open world games make me feel like hero of time lol.Most RPGs do schedules better as well, branching narratives that require replaying the game again, deeper experiences. If you take the time to painsakingly do all the sidequests in Majora's Mask, the game just handwaves all of the good deeds occuring together in dawn of a new day at the end. That undermines what everyone claims is just so damn cool about Majora's Mask, it's so DARK and you can't save everyone! and the world is continually destroyed PSYCHE you rewind time and do all the everything goodest boy head pat handshake how-do-you-do lets go home.
>>739832305>liked windwaker>liked totkconfirmed bootlicker and not a real fan, be better
>>739835531>Most RPGs do schedules better as well, branching narratives that require replaying the game again, deeper experiences.To be fair, the way the game allows you to explore the various possibilities for various quests in a single playthrough, and expects you to do so, allows it to give significance to the way the various outcomes can contrast against each other in a way that RPGs can't easily do as well. In fact saying "Most RPGs do schedules better as well" is extremely strange, as most of them don't do schedules at all, or at most have certain quests on some kind of timer, but very few have the kind of compounding day to day scheduled interactions that affect things that will happen days ahead and can be played around with like how MM does it.Outside of something like the Blood Barron questline (which is not typical of what The Witcher does most of the time), I can hardly think of any RPG quest complex that compares to what MM does with its more elaborate cross quest interactions.
>>739818387preferred MM to OoT
>>739818445fpbpWe all loved this game when I was a kid.
every zelda game I've played I liked it, but always wished it did morealttp is the best balance between difficulty, replayability, and lengthsome of these games are tedious at times, cryptic at times, or lack any difficult situations
>>739818387People expected a sequel on the vein of OOT but got child Link in parallel dimension with reused assets.It also felt like a shorter game with less bing bing wahoo and more interactions and cutscenes with characters you may not care about much.Add to that the 3 day cycle and mask transformations, there are a few changes that may easily throw you off from the more linear design OOT established, the only difference being that MM makes side content plentiful and interesting enough if you care to spend time doing it, truth is both are linear (and play mostly the same) but you'd be missing out on the meat of the game if you just try to breeze through.Then there's the bunch that were just happy to have another Zelda game, I don't think people really hated it, you just had the patience to pick it up and see it for what it was or you didn't.
>>739836396It's just softball type shit, things that could impact an entire RPG playthrough is now relegated to some minor switch flip.>old lady gets robbed>save herit's a binary switch.
>>739822592>we didn't have social media back then to manufacture a consensus like "it was hated"That isn't entirely true. GameFAQs, Newgrounds, and early Youtube were beginning to manufacture consensus to a degree around ~2005-2007. And I believe it's fair to point that out since MM had a second wind through the GCN port that artificially kept it and OoT relevant for a lot longer than if they'd stayed on the N64. Those sites just weren't the deafening echo chambers that modern social media often devolve into. >>739818387The only legitimate complaint about the game is that a lot of people didn't have access to it since a pretty hefty amount of people rented OoT and couldn't rent MM because they didn't have expansion packs. But again, the GCN port kinda fixed that issue a few years later since it was released in a 4-game bundle (Zelda 1, Zelda 2, OoT, MM) on a console that had objectively failed by 2005, to the point that you could unironically get entire units for 20-40 bucks at a pawn shop.
>>739833273Nah. Ocarina of Time doesn't have the same sort of "you must do THIS in THIS specific order in THIS time frame" things that Majora's Mask does. You could argue that Minish Cap's 100% completion requires you to get all the gacha figurines (which lies to you about the chances of getting a new one, and requires clicking through dialogue just to try for one) but that's not really that HARD it's just tedious. Kinstones don't really count since there's nothing in your inventory that really tracks or relies on getting each and every one.
>>739839462>you could unironically get entire units for 20-40 bucks at a pawn shop.There's a meme photo that gets posted on /v/ often these days that has a Wal-Mart (likely taken in late 2005 or early 2006) selling brand new GameCubes for $50.
Majora's Mask is not a fun game
>>739839769I had a blast with it
>>739818387Always liked it, this was probably my most played game for like 3 years when it came out, and kept playing it for several years into the gamecube era. Tons of this game is still perfect muscle memory to me. I played a 2 ship 2 harkinian randomizer last year, and I was slightly impressed at just how much shit I still perfectly remembered how to do. First try perfected both archery ranges, first tried the goron race. Fuck, the goron roll is still so much fun to control. I might do another one this weekend actually.
>>739839769Yeah if you're RETARDED
>>739833903LesseeFor Majora's MaskBeaver Race 2. Not really that hard but even knowing the beavers are there for the first race is obscure, knowing to come back the next day to race again is some occult shit.Kafei & the Postman's hat. There's a lot of timing and moving parts to this that are ridiculous to figure out on your own.That one fucking stray fairy in stone tower, where you need borderline frame perfect movement with goron rolling and then deku flowers. A few of the stray fairies in general are tough, but that one in particular.The shooting galleries are both pretty rough. Even with mods that add the hookshot reticle for the bow, just the raw movement alone required is tough. The deku flower mini game's third day. Not THAT hard in the big picture, but I've failed it a surprising number of times. The goron trial on the moon. The goron race. I swear this was one of the first times I became aware of how a game's AI works to abuse it.Honestly, Great Bay Temple in general, is probably the single hardest 3D Zelda dungeon. It's one of my favorites, but it has a lot of really novel puzzle design to unpack, and actually traversing to where you want to be can be difficult. I know for OoT, the Golden Scale is kind of a motherfucker. The fishing game is surprisingly difficult, until you know the tricks to it. Getting all 100 skulltula tokens is also pretty obnoxious, there's quite a few utter motherfuckers among them, that there's almost nothing to suggest where they are.
>>739835623Are you actually this retarded or just pretending? You made me reply to ask I guess.
revisionism? I played it on release. it was great. I did play MM before OoT though, so there's that.
>>739835623To be fair if you like Wind Waker but not TotK you're a snoy so it's kind of an untenable position to be in
>>739832305I agree except windwaker. It's grown on me now that I'm an adult. I still hate that they showed some tech demo with cool graphics for a zelda game that didn't exist and then...released CEL SHADED TOON LINK REEEEEEEEEEEE.But WW is a better zelda game than totk and botw.
>>739841507>Tfw im a snoy
chore simulator the game
