Good marketing aside, what does a fighting game, especially a new one without a roster of beloved legacy characters, need to be successful? "Successful" as in financially profitable and with a relatively sizable fanbase that will stick with it and support it. Please give elaborate answers bros, thank you.
Sell its soul to esports. Also, sex with futa poison.
find some niche and shamelessly pander to it.for example, and i'm being absolutely serious here because I think this would genuinely make a game profit, a hot trans character with a visible, unmistakable dick bulge. it's never been done, it's pandering to coomers and queers: it's a guaranteed money printer.
>>739880120Beyond characters, you need to think about your gimmick, and if you want to dedicate your game to the FGC or fun.For example, if your fighting game has fun game modes, that means the FGC takes it less seriously.
don't do it man it's a tiny niche genre with three decades of calcified preferences and already existing competitionfucking snk can't make a fighting game stick
>>739880063I don't think Saudi Arabia would catch what I'm pitchin.>>739880120Pick a niche and pander to it. It's not that I don't see the vision, I just don't know how sustainable that is. I at least want to make something that's genuinely fun to play before looking at its shallow appeal. Like for example, Undertale and Deltarune pander to queers, but the games are genuinely fun as fuck beyond that, catching more than the gay lettuce bacon people in their nets.
>>739880191Yeah, while I grew up playing fightans all my life, I never really cared about the FGC. That, and the most successful fighting game series of all time is arguably anti-FGC, so much so that many claim it isn't one (Smash).>>739880231But the same can be said for RPGs, Shooters, Action, etc. Most prominent genres are old asf with fossilized fanbases, I don't want that to stop me, because I like fighting games.
>>739879482male on futa
>>739880375smash only sells because it is IPwank. that's why each entry outsells the last despite the series going to shit after melee.
>>739881128It is IPwank, but it speaks to the fact that there's more to a fighting game beyond the spectrum of casual-FGC appeal and robust gaming experience, namely the characters themselves have to be super likeable.
>>739879482
>>739880191>Beyond characters, you need to think about your gimmick,You can always make money by selling merch
>>739879482two of the following>Have a passable artstyle>Cool/sexy characters>at least try to do something new instead of <your favorite game> but worseThe last time an original IP with no preceding versions, public controversies, franchise backing got any amount of quantifiable success was what, Rivals of Aether 1 in 2017? But just like every other fighting game there's an amount of goodwill and trust required from the community for them to spread the word pre-release that allowed RoA to succeed. That means being active in communities or already knowing people who are, and being willing to show the game off actively. "Good marketing" is a bit of a nebulous phrase because it works differently for different games.Yomi Hustle is also a breakout hit but it did have a public controversy over Dave Sirlin's retardation that definitely got a lot of eyes on it. Very unique game that's very easy to mod.Battle Queen goes a bit viral every now and then because its full of big titty 3D girls of passable model quality.BreakThrough also picks up on social media every now and again because its an indie trying to do Strive animations even if the artstyle is a bit wonky.Diesel Legacy bombed super hard despite trying to do something unique because the art style and character designs were pretty boring, but it was still enough to secure a partnership with the big nick and get the Avatar license and now it looks like they'll at least make their money back on that if not double.It remains to be seen if Combo Devils will do well, keep an eye on if the singleplayer roguelike stuff is fun enough to sustain sales.Generic Fighter Maybe? might do okay because it's a quickly made game with an unusual artstyle made for reddit points but who knows if it'll actually make profit beyond upvote farming, since it has no real characters to attach to.Any indie fighter I've seen that doesn't have the budget of a small AA game is usually distributed for free or $10 at the most.
>>739879482There is no way for you to succeed. Fighting games are niche and there are already too many on the market. Invincible VS just came out with the power of a fairly well known IP behind it and it is already a discord fighter.
>>739882131Thank you anon. It really doesn't bode well that out of all these, Rivals of Aether is the only one I know, and I think it's pretty much dead now. Luck is always a big element for success, so I can't even reliably study these games to see why they couldn't grab a larger audience/market, I'm sure those devs did their best. I know that having likeable characters and a recognizable visual identity is super important, since that's really all fighting games have to offer aside from actual gameplay. Skull Girls comes to mind, an incredibly visually charming game, but it spelled death to its studio despite said charm. What went wrong with SG exactly again? I wasn't tapped in much into the FGC back then.
>>739879482Show me what you already did and I'll tell you what you did wrong
>>739882462>What went wrong with SG exactly again?Mostly dev drama, if there was no dev drama SG would have basically been the biggest indie fighter hit of all time, especially thanks to being one of the first adopters of rollback. Otherwise the only reason people dropped it was because they got bored and moved on just like any other game, though you always hear a screecher or two mentioning how they don't want to be caught dead playing because of the character designs even though I'd honestly consider it pretty tame for the era it released in.Anyway I wanted to add a bit more since I ran out of space before>I've seen at least two RPGs with fighting game battles and two roguelikes based on fighting games being worked on at the moment, they're all singleplayer only>That pokemon fanmade fighting game is apparently pretty popular but its free and the dev doesn't profit off of it.I'd say one of the other ways to financially succeed now as an indie is to unironically offer something other than PvP fighting, have a good story, good alternate modes, party modes, etc You want to make sure that the game can be picked up and enjoyed by people who suck at fighting games, because those are the people that make up 99% of sales for most of them. There's some furry fighting game that came out recent-ish where the first trailer is listing off its mechanics like a dealership talking about car internals and I was pretty turned off by that, but I think a game like that can still get a lot of freaks who love to lab, just not enough to make a sizeable profit.
>>739882881Yeah, that's why fighting games need a lot of sequels and updated editions to keep going, the one base game can get pretty stale for people even with regular character additions. And yes, ample singleplayer content is at the forefront of my mind, story heavy arcade modes are just not enough, it needs to be something different that still fights the gameplay. I keep thinking about the Tekken Force mode and how much fun that was. Not that I'm necessarily shooting for a beat 'em up mode, but something that's different while still retaining the core gameplay loop should be pretty good to aim at. I also remember Soul Calibur 3's RPG-ish mode, but that one had a problem of getting stale too quickly. Something to think about for sure. And casual appeal- I think DBFZ proved that you can make a mechanically complex game and people well buy into it, provided there are button-mashing friendly tools (auto combos), and the characters are charming enough so that even FGC outsiders would pick it up, but that's Dragon Ball we're talking about, it might as well be an outlier. But yeah like it or not you have to allow button mashing as a viable way to play the game, while still leaving it as somewhat limited so that the players are encouraged to learn the characters properly.
>>739882131This genre is cursed
>>739884313that still preserves the basic gameplay*
nothing. fighting games are a legacy genre and there is no space left for anything except *VERY* brief flavor of the month flash in the pan titlesSF, Kekken, some variation of Marvel and unfortunately Mortal Kombat are the only games that will sell to normalfags and noobs. there isn't room for anything new because all of the secondary tier spots are already taken by stuff like GG, DB, whateverafter that all you have are games that sell big for a month then get memory holed and have no long term viability
>>739879482I'm seeing indie fgs and fgs based on existing franchises die left and right. Rivals 2 LOOKS like it got massive numbers this EVO but basically the streamer Ludwig literally gave free tourney entries to anyone who would sign up for rivals 2If my goal was money and a sizable playerbase I would definitely not be touching fgs with a 50 foot pole. But go for it if you think you're the next Mike Z lol
>>739879482ITNEEDSPICRELATED!!
>>739885070What is it about fightan that makes it so infertile a genre? Do you have deeper thoughts on the matter? Do you see this in other genres?
>>739879482Just have decent netcode and titties man it ain't that hard. If you want to win players the offline mode has to be long and rewarding so they can get to know the game without a sweaty nerd ruining their experience
>>739885836>If you want to win players the offline mode has to be long and rewarding so they can get to know the game without a sweaty nerd ruining their experienceCan you give an existing example of such a mode that you like?
>>739885409Barrier to entry is way too high for a lot of new players due to the amount of knowledge and technical skill requiredThe people who have been playing for a long time have a massive head start in any game. Even a brand new series or IP will be dominated by existing players owning new playersTeam based multiplayer games weren't around when fighting games were introduced. Modern young people have grown up in team games where even if they suck, someone else can carry them or they can share the burden of failing with others. A fighting game puts the blame for failure on you aloneOther genres with the same problems are arena shooters and RTS (high skill single player focus with a large barrier to entry and a playerbase made up of uncs that will BTFO noobs)
>>739879482I want to get dicked down by futa Poison
>>739886534I guess it makes sense, not only does a team approach help newbies beat or at least survive the overpowered uncs, but it also helps them learn the game from their skilled teammates. Shit, and with a F2P skinshop approach you could make crazy bank. At the moment tho, I can't imagine a team based fighter that wouldn't look like literal hell. Tag fighters has the same issues as regular fighters.
>>739886606In-game?
>>739885361Isn't RoA a Smash-like? I feel like that truly is a lost cause, it's a subgenre defined entirely by one game that nothing can compete with due to massive IP wank
>>739888487Rivals 1 I feel had a pretty good identity on its own but 2 is literally just smash with adding shielding and ledge mechanics and grabs etcWho knows what wouldve happened if they kept going in on the unga rivals 1 gameplay design instead
>>739879482Make the arcade mode like Darkstalkers, it feels like a boss rush game, each character is like a boss with attack patterns and telegraphed attacks, make it progressively get faster and advanced like some characters will require you to do specific techniques like counters or grabs. Essentially a glorified training mode but fun.When they eat shit against other players they just go back and stick with the arcade mode.And yeah, put a hot tranny, lolibaba, ikemen in it
>>739879482DO NOT MAKE TAG/ASSIST/MAHVEL SLOPDO NOT MAKE DOWN-DOWN/ MORTAL KOMBAT SLOPDO NOT MAKE AIR-DASH/GUILTY GEAR SLOPONLY HAVE 1V1s I DON'T CARE IF THE OPTIMAL COMBO IS 300 HITS AND TAKES 40 MINUTES TO FINISH JUST BLOCK, LOL
>>739888619So just SF or KoF/SNK stuff?
>>739888609Didn't Blazblue do all of that and tank like shit? That one actually did have boss-like fights. And also had a tranny, lolibaba, ikemen, etc. I'm pretty sure it tanked like shit outside of Japan, at least after the first couple editions.
>>739889029Yeah but make your version.
>>739889130But KoF/SNK is deader than dirt, entirely propped up by Saudi money. And SF is also propped up by Capcom's income, SF6 is the first title to stand on its own somewhat since like SSF4.
>>739889215lol? you're gonna force assist/strive slop in, i can just tell.
>>739889279I'm just saying, I don't have a Saudi Prince or a giant MMO and the most successful single player franchise to support my basic ass arcade fightan, needs to have something else to it. There are hundreds of SF/KoF copies out there that failed so bad you never heard of them.
>>739889390just remake specifically sf2 i guess, something where you chunk the healthbar with one special.
>>739889553Yeah, I intend to make it a bit more fast paced, so skinnier health bars will help
>>739889746nice. all you need are some nice characters and you're good
>>739889996What's a good roster size for you? I specifically mean (You), not in general.
>>739889121That's because it's peak otakucore, very anime-like. Do cartoon-like and westpandering (but in a japan-coded way).Also, will it be in 2D or 3D? I feel like 3D is welcomed better, even if it's 2D-like (provides coom synergy with models being ripped and animated in blender).
>>7398900542D with 3D models. And yeah maybe it's the overt weebiness that killed it actually, 'cause now that I think it did have some cool ideas with all those boss fight-like matches. Good idea anon.
>>739890040idk like 14 characters. maybe 8 of them male, 6 of them female. make like 2 of the male, joke characters. i usually just main someone and then fight the rest of the roster as opponents.
>>739879482A Chun Li lookalike.Clothing damage.Movesets themed around actual martial arts.Movesets, animations AND default and main alternate costumes actually themed around and based heavily in the more stylized forms of actual martial arts like kenpo, capoiera, silat, etc. One or two characters max for each, if you must double up on a martial art pick a radically different school within it. Characters should represent the culture they come from visually and be that race. If you have a boxer character, his mobility should be meaningfully worse without crippling him, but he should be able to resist getting knocked around or interrupted by light hits more, too.Movesets designed around 4 buttons and directionals, not 6 - there are way too many obscure and pointless variants in most fighting games anyways, and most of them are combo finishers which take five extra inputs to make them "skillful" enough to deal actual damage. Instead, just 4 buttons and make the combos things you would naturally try and press, two buttons + one directional at most.Add very mild RNG add/subtract to both damage output AND frames-to-hit for all or nearly all moves. Fighting games became unpopular for the same reason as RTSes did...pure determinism gets more boring and samey the more both players get good at it. Even chess is like this despite the masters claiming otherwise. Crush the dreams of metafags with small doses of RNG instead of shitty annoying constant rebalances and patches.Reduce recovery frames, add iframes during part of recovery frames, or both.If there are going to be weapons, make them interesting without making them unbalanced. If you want to include a weapon as a "mode" for a character, drawing it should alter the way they move, probably to increase range and power at the cost of frame speed/mobility/defense.
>>739890386NO FUCKING FRAME LINKING, use actual game design instead of capitalizing on glitches. No one plays in arcades anymore and netcode + frame linking = confusion or frustration for one or both people at all times.If you're going to have it be "3D" like Tekken, make a 3-4 player FFA mode. If not, make 2v2 that can be played with all 4 online.In general, don't try to be an esport. Unless you're shelling out huge prize money to attract attention, treat your comp scene like second class citizens if you must acknowledge their existence.If you have ranked play, make it gradually erode the ELO of ranked players when they play casual/quick match, moreso than just being idle from the ladder would, to discourage them stomping casuals to regain confidence.AND LASTLY...There should be a chance for the waifus to pee themselves a little when they take a heavy hit, a smaller chance for them to pee themselves when they deal out a heavy hit or jump, and a small chance for them to soak themselves in a puddle in the background during the opponent's victory animation if they lose.
>>739890201>2D with 3D models.Oh yeah, I didn't elaborated properly but that's what I meant by 3D. I like sidestep slop 3D as well but full on arena fighter I just instantly look past at (even though in theory they're good I just lose interest as soon I see them, maybe years of shitty anime arena fighters conditioned me that way)
>>739890212This is a good point and also a caveat about move simplification; throw in one Yoshimitsu type with retarded long strings of moves to do weird glitchy looking things in midair or so on, something distinct from pogoing but the same sort of fun.>>739890386Also forgot to mention but making things like grapple breaks based on chance AND timing instead of just timing, making guarding not just reduce damage but have an RNG chance to block it completely for a given move with correct guard, or making all interrupts/launches/knockdowns/knockbacks/stuns have a chance component with the target character having modifiers against them based on their character (like the boxer instead of being immune maybe just has somewhat less chance to be interrupted/guard broken/thrown than most characters by mid or high moves, for instance) could make the game more engaging. Maybe not all of these at once though.
>>739890815Yeah I have a very silly idea in mind for a joke character lol, should be fun. And I think chance in mechanics could be fun, but it's a big gamble to take since I can also imagine it being extremely frustrating. One guy recently did a youtube video digging into how the CPU cheats in SF2 arcade mode, and it sounds a lot like what you're describing there.
>>739879482Good netplay and good lobbies, stuff like simultaneous lobbies is huge, it's insane that there are modern games like uni2 that still have king of the hill lobbies, good online matchmaking too, for the love of god no strive tower. I also don't really like how many modern games are coming out that are insanely reliant on system mechanics, SF6 and T8 are stand outs, when the system is too overbearing they just overshadow characters. Mai in SF6 is the obvious example or any character in tekken 8. I like motion inputs and I think there's this misguided notion that they're a big casual filter when modern games come out without them and people still don't play them, so just choose if you want or don't want them I guess. I think the biggest is to at least try to design characters that have downsides, it's ok to have John Fighting who's okay at everything but that doesn't need to be everyone. Undernight is a big victim of this where they give people moves for the sake of having more stuff and it erodes at their identity.That being said it's really hard to make fighting games and have them profitable so you have to understand that you're essentially just doing this because you like fighting games.
The single most important factor of your game and it's longevity is widespread appeal, and unfortunately, that means single-player modes. You will have to come up with a compelling story, that can be done with any of the characters, that can be done on whatever budget you have.My suggestion is to look to the beat-em-ups. Those games are essentially fighting games, but they make the fighter overpowered and the mobs underpowered and have longer opportunities for chained combos. It's definitely not quick or simple, but it will give people things to do outside of netplay. If you attempt to only focus on the 1v1, you will realize quickly why people keep going back to the same game, over and over - because there is little to no point in climbing a ladder that leads nowhere.Also if you make it a tag-focused game you WILL fail.
>>739892534For 5% of the game's profits I will come up with OP's compelling story.
teams of 3, only one character per round, no tag/assist, quick silly jakenpon-like warioware games before matches to "randomly" decide the order (even a optional first attack that can be countered, like a frying pan guard)
