How did Zelda end up falling so far behind and getting thoroughly mogged by so many other games?
>>739955730Retarded faggot Twitter poster but I agree with the point being made. Metroidvania should stop being called that because there's no metroid game on par with rabi ribi or hollow knight
>>739955805It's called Metroidvania due to the origins of the genre, not because of how good the series is today. How games that are inspired by Rogue are Roguelikes. It's just how the language of the genre developed. No reason to change it.
How the fuck are half of these related to Zelda in any capacity
>>739955805Yeah I think the genre should be renamed to Hollow-Likes. Not even just because of quality, but pretty much every "Metroidvania" that comes out is inspired by HK rather than Metroid or Castlevania. Also Niflheimm isn't retarded and he's one of the more notable figures in the twitter game design analysis sphere.
>>739955730Mina is nothing like zelda tho.People really dont understand the difference between game design outside of "camera angle the same"
>>739955958It's called Metroidvania because Symphony of the Night and the GBA/DS Castlevania games reminded some old forum users of Metroid and they preferred the older stage-based games. It was meant as an insult in the sense that it wasn't the Castlevania they knew and loved. We also learned later through interviews that those games were inspired by Zelda, not Metroid, which is coincidentally relevant to the OP.
I love xitter opinion threads
>>739955730you know why, nintendo makes games for toddlers
>>739955730>>739955805>>739956146kys disgusting freaks
>>739956373kys too fag
>>739956310>was meant as an insult in the senseNo, it wasn't. I don't think you were there.
>>739955730>Tunic mogging anythingWhat. Game was fucking tedious to get around in, with ample backtracking as you try to figure the puzzles out. Also wtf is NGB that isn't Ninja Gaiden Black?
>>739955730The only two listed that are truly like Zelda are Tunic and Okami, and neither are as good. I'm a Kamiyafag but Okami is worse than every 3D Zelda other than maaaaaybe SS, but even then it's close
I highly doubt most of those games are better than ALTTP. Out of the dark souls series only the og is better, but comparing the two is unfair.
>>739955730We went into the 21st century. Zelda did its job in the 80s and 90s and will forever be historically relevant for that. It's been running on fumes post-Oracles.
>>739956548Yeah, Ninja Gaiden Black has the same adventure structure of a 3D Zelda game but executes the concept better with more interesting level and puzzle design.
>>739956310retard moment
>>739955805>>739956146here is your "Hollow-like" bro
>>739955730Crystalis might still be the best Zelda gameand also the best Ys game
Genshin Impact is the new Zelda. Replaced it like star rail effortlessly replaced final fantasy The Japanese really lost their way with not respecting their own most culturally relevant products
>>739956656Oracles were the peak of dungeon design for me. I don't know exactly why. It's just that figuring out the later ones tickled my brain in just the right way. Most of the dungeons in games that came after felt dumbed down. Or maybe I had just got used to how they were made.
>>739956807why did metroid zero mission copy hollow knight silksong?
>>739955805trvke
>>739955805>hollow knightthat's a soulslike
>>739955730Aonumale
>>739956561>Okami is worse than every 3D Zelda Yeah, no. Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker are all mogged hard by Okami.
>>739955730Half of those games have absolutely nothing to do with Zelda. Outer Wilds? Lmao
>>739955730>Tunic is a blowlike>Okami is worse than early 3d zeldas>Wtf is NiGB?>Souls games are a better translation of the first 2 zeldas to 3d which is fair, but most Zelda fans like lttp more than those>Hollowkight and silk song are more like metroid unless metroid is also a zeldalike. Even then I like Zelda 2 and super Metroid over the cherry games>Outerwilds is nothing like zelda
>>739955730Anti zelda retards wish this were the caseIt is not thoughever, it's still the king of adventure
>>739956656aol really slipped into that pic thinking bro belonged and no one would notice
>>739958328>blowlikeI am going to find you and rape you
>>739956895oracles were made by capcom like okami that's why they're good unlike nintendo ones
>>739956310>theyyou can safely use he in most cases
>>739958080only twilight princess is worse than okami. wind waker makes it look like an outdated piece of shit
wtf does hollow knight have in common with zelda?
>>739958689The capcom devs that made the oracle games went on to make BOTW you ignorant nigger
>>739958689that was a case of nintendo actually hiring those men
>>739958834Take off your nostalgia goggles. Wind Waker is for toddlers, blatantly unfinished and the pacing is atrocious.
>>739955730Maybe on planet retard
>>739959109You just described Okami
>>739958328ow devs had a majora's mask poster in their office and said the game exists because the dev got mad at wink waker
>>739955730You lost and got raped
>>739958620AoL is a good action RPG for its time, introduced towns and magic to Zelda, remains the franchise gold standard for the latter of those, AND is one of the few actually challenging entries in the series.
>>739955730cope and seethe
>>739958834Wind Waker as shipped is a travesty of a game. Great idea, but sent out at least 6 months too soon. It absolutely needed more dev time with how weak its dungeons, sidequests, and overall world structure is.
>>739956310Fucking damn it, how do posters on /v/ get this stupid?
>>739959195>no uI guess I should expect too much of the faggot defending a game that's mostly filler.
>>739959303mogged by maze of galious, faxanadu etc
>no indie dev has managed to mog this one yetis it truly unmoggable?
>>739959415and still managed to be better than garbage like twilight princess
>>739959619both okami and wind waker are garbage games carried by their artstyle. get some taste disgusting faggot. the puzzles in okami are just as baby tier shit as the ones in aonuma's zeldas. okami's pacing is also fucking dogshit. nigger
>>739959753Nah, Twilight Princess has its flaws but at least it has a strength in its memorable dungeons. Wind Waker has art/sound direction and little else really going for it.
>>739955730The fuck are you on? game seems mid
>>739959847Maybe if you're a braindead toddler. The one Zelda with top tier dungeons is Skyward Sword and everyone shits on that game. the dungeons in TP are on rails and are overrated shit liked by low iq plebs.
>>739955730none of those games are good, let along even comparable to Zelda. seriously, zoomers are retarded
>>739955730At least half of the games he listed don't even capture the same appeal as Zelda. Also, fucking LMAO at the suggestion Okami is better than even the worst 3D Zelda game. It's entirely carried by its charm, the actual design of its dungeons and world is not very good, and often is just tedious.
>>739959658AoL not being the only action RPG in the 80s is aside the point. I would maybe say Ys 1 is better myself. But AoL is still solid on its own terms, and as stated established enduring elements of the series.
>>739956895>>739956656OoS/OoA had the most gameplay density. Gameplay per seconds. It's the same principle with jrpgs getting longer animation effects. In oot, the water puzzle has a complicated puzzle. It comes with added waiting time because you've to move your character all the way around in a 3d simulation. This adds a lot of friction. As opposed to the instant visualization of, say, Sokoban.Alttp was half the way there with snappier 2d gameplay. It was a stroke of luck to have it followed with la and then oracles. The interface allowed them to focus on the dungeons and they did it.
>>739956310I believe this poster. It makes no sense that one day somebody said "its like metroid and castlevania SOTN, a "metroidvania" if you will" while they lit a cigarette and had their fellow jurors on the edge of their seats. It sounds more like a endonym centered on castlevania and describing a type of castlevania. It's like say "codfield" or "miyazaki zelda". Whether its insulting or not depends on what you think of the flavor change.
>>739960036I wouldn't say Lakebed Temple, Arbiter's Groumds, Snowpeak Ruins or City in the Sky are on rails. Some dungeons like Goron Mines, Temple of Time and Palace of Twilight do border on autopilot though.>Skyward SwordThe Lanayru dungeons, Ancient Cistern and Sky Keep are all pretty good. This game also shits on Wind Waker, so I don't know why we're bringing that up.
>>739955805>Metroidvania should stop being called that because there's no metroid game on par with rabi ribi or hollow knightBASED, but also for the fact that nutroid games aren't even metroidshit anymore.
>>739955730Stupid retard. Game is nothing like classic Zelda. It doesn't have a you get item to unlock area in the map schtick. It's basically open world slop with top down view
>>739955730In an ideal world I'd have both good new Zeldas and good games inspired by them, but I'm happy to at least have one of the two.
>>739956270Retards are retarded, more news at 11
I fucking LOVE Okami, it is a game I bought four times, and I've even managed the autism of getting all the beads and no, the absurdity of saying its better than the Zelda game its inspired from is ludicrous. It suffers in that it never ever gets to a challenging level. But muh Zelda never gets hard, yes, I get it. But I'm talking in comparison of dungeon design between the two games? There's a reason people remember Zelda dungeons and people don't remember Okami's to this day.
>>739960452Basically all the dungeons in TP follow this formula with the exception of Lakebed Temple. They are overrated shit.
>indie game that takes clear inspiration from an established franchise comes out>obnoxious fanbase pops up overnight saying established franchise is actually shit, indie game is betterA Hat in TimeFreedom PlanetSpark the Electric JesterGravity CircuitMina the HollowerAnymore games to add to the list? I don't think The Messenger or Cyber Shadow ever made obnoxious claims. Berserk Boy sucked so bad it was forgotten. Hollow Knight fans mostly stuck to themselves.
>>739960618Yes, yes, we've all see Boss Keys. That has nothing to do with the room-by-room design, and several of TP's dungeons are at least modestly mindful of giving the player spaces that call for some marginal critical thinking. Compare that to WW dungeons, which almost all struggle to meet even the standard of Palace of Twilight, easily TP's worst dungeon. The Sol sphere shit is all it has, and that's still more interesting than almost anything outside of Wind Temple and maybe Forbidden Woods.
>>739956737We are not going to pretend for even a slight second that people play Black for the fucking puzzles.
>>739961026>A Hat in TimeWho the hell’s arguing AHiT is better than 3d mario? Maybe better than some, but it’s ridiculous to say any indie dev can do better than nintendo’s bread & butter>Freedom Planet>Spark the Electric JesterTo be fair sonic’s never been given a high opinion to begin with, and those games get shit on plenty >Gravity CircuitNever heard>Mina the HollowerIt’s just one tweet, not a common consensus. Besides i’m sure the point of it is less “this game mogs zelda” and more “zelda fucking sucks now” which isn’t an uncommon or wrong opinion to have
>>739961026Expedition 33 is a unique case where the most obnoxious elements of the fanbase claim the entire JRPG genre (besides itself) is shit, actually.
>>739955730If you play tunic your wife has a bull
>>739961534Nah I've definitely seen a number of tweets saying Mina is Zelda but good. Zelda's one of those series where it used to be considered really good back in the day but it hasn't aged well from what I hear.
>>739955730Okami is like a solid 6-7/10. I have no idea why people hype it up so much.
The best part of Zelda is the dungeons. Dungeon crawling is pure video gamism.But all those games in the OP don't copy the dungeons. They barely copy the progression system of Overworld > Dungeon > New Section of Overworld > DungeonI'll give credit to >>739960496 Pipistrello though. It's a lot more faithful of a Zelda-like copying the dungeons and progression.
>>739961885The newer ones sure, but I still see plenty assert the classic zelda games as shining examples of video games. Sure the dissing is originating from zoomers or something
How the fuck is the Outer Wilds ANYTHING like Zelda!?
>>739962053>The best part of Zelda is the dungeons. Dungeon crawling is pure video gamism.inb4 he is hated for telling the truth
>>739956310>A-Actually everyone secretly HATED <Extremely Popular Game>Why is this autism increasingly common on here?
>>739955730Okami is so fucking bad I am convinced everyone who claims it is even 1/10th of any Zelda game has never actually played it and is a seething snoygger.If you like it on your own then ok whatever but trying to punch up against zelda when it can barely scratch the toes of any given Zelda game then there is clearly more at play.
TEST
>>739956816The best Ys game is Angeline Era.
does mina have puzzles in dungeons?
>>739956310Cute post. Your boyfriend tell you this info?
>>739962653No. It's more combat and platforming challenges.
I think there is a fear to respect metroid that comes from people that haven't played it. They will play something inspired by it and think "there no way this old ass game really competes with the greatness I just played" then never play Super metroid and never actually argue with metroid fans because they have played both and still say SM is better.Hollow knight is usually the example everyone brings up but in truth boss battles are the only thing hollow knight does better then metroid, its beaten in all other categories.As for zelda and Mina, I dont know yet because I haven't gotten around to playing the game but it does seem like a closer comparison.
I've only played the demos of both games but Tearscape seems more like an apt comparison point to Mina.
>>739955730Aonuma never understood Zelda.
>>739963449He's a competent dungeon designer that failed upwards. He has his place but was given too much oversight, and is now in charge of the shit he knows nothing about.
>>739962164The guy in the pic has probably not played it (or any of the other games he mentioned)
Mina is pseudo 8-bit rollslop. It only superficially looks like a Zelda game.
>>739956807it's not even a real boss fight in Silksong retard, play the fucking game
