>Linear Zelda is dead
attach rate?
>>739966707Link Between Worlds is such an outstanding game, sad to hear that it didn't sell well.
>soul is inversely proportional to saleA sad sight
>>739966770It performed about as well as the Oracles, Phantom Hourglass and OG Awakening if this chart's anything to go by. Seems pretty standard performance for a handheld Zelda.
>>739966707Surprising that Phantom Hourglass sold almost three times as much as Minish Cap when nobody ever discusses the DS games.
I'm still mad that BOTW Wii U had its gamepad features removed.
>>739966707Why do people like open world slop so much?
>>739966707i think this just shows everything sells better on the switch thoughbeit
>>739966707oot sales are insane considering n64 had liek 30 million total. the system only had like 10 million when it came out.
>>739967065I mean the console was a SM64/OOT machine, there really is nothing else to play on it
>>739966770>Link Between Worlds is such an outstanding game, sad to hear that it didn't sell well.Worst 2D Zelda I've ever played, killed any and all enjoyment for the franchise for me, and BotW was the final nail in the coffin.
>>739967006babby's first ubislop
>>739967161That's a unique take. ALBW is one of the few Zeldas from the last 20 years that I would call good.
>>739967006It doesn't challenge them, and it facilitates a comfortable pacing while inviting players to loot and spoil an entire world while pretending to get in touch with nature.
>>739967148goldeneye, perfect dark, banjo, smash bros, star fox, ogre battle 64 were all great too. goldeneye basically invented modern shooters, controls, etc. headshots didnt exist til goldeneye invented them. it was console mover too.
>>739967465>goldeneye basically invented modern shootersNinteniggers are crossing the line
>>739966759Wind Waker«s probably the highest since both versions are on Nintendo's 2 worst selling consoles lmao
>>739967606do you deny that it invented the modern aiming system? 2 analogs with dual controllers is the standard and they had that option. it standardized making single player stages into multiplayer stages that everyone does today. it invented head shots and body context sensitive shots (shooting hands, nutshots, etc for less or more dmg). many games dont even have this feature today and only have hte headshots. no game had head shots before goldeneye. half life adds it late in development after goldeneye revealed them. that was first for pc afterwards. goldeneye did this and more. you might not like modern fps, but goldeneye revolutionize dand standardized basically everything that is the same to this day.
>>739967824>do you deny that it invented the modern aiming system?There's nothing to deny, it's an obviously wrong and delusional claim
>>739966707But the Switch 2's first big Zelda will be an OoT remake.
>>739967065OoT was just a really fucking good game. Compare that to OP's pic where BotW barely sold shit on its native console. It just doesn't compare. Switch tendies have ruined video games not just for Zeldafags but for everybody else included because they're the reason that 60 to 100 dollar games are the norm now.
>>739966825hating popular things doesnt make you interesting
>>739967879you'd do well to start using examples when you refute someone instead of just saying "no" again and again. it makes you come across as ill-informed and childish
>>739968371didnt ask
>>739966707(and thats a good thing!)
>>739966707people need to remember this picture whenever some ubislop zelda fag shittalks the actual zelda games.odds are extremely high that they never played them.
>>739967606He's not wrong, at least partially. Goldeneye is basically the grand daddy of console shooters.
TOTK and BOTW are magic
>>739968682zoom
>>739966956it was the first zelda on a handheld that sold 150 million and it released during its peak years. not surprising that is sold well at all
>>739967161>killed any and all enjoyment for the franchise for meHow old are you?
>>739966707That graph is outdated. BOTW is at 35 million. Cope and seethe, troon
>>739966707good ridance
>>739967161I agree with this, real bro take. 100%, nailed it. BotW may be a semi-cozy openworld game but terrible Zelda that killed the fucking franchise.
Every Zelda is a good game but bad Zelda game, the same happens with Resident Evil
>>739968872kys faggot
>>739969427Most Zeldas before Wind Waker are good and most Resident Evils before 4 are good. Both series from those points onward struggle to retain what they were even about.
>>739969496struck a nerve? learn to formulate your own opinions. first step is (and I know this is difficult for someone your age!) to get off of social media for once
>>739966707How much you wanna bet it's bandwagonets that have already jumped ship much like the Wii -> Wii U situation? I'll bet money that if they make a third BotW the sales will be way more comparable to pre-BotW sales, and Aonuma will still be chasing for the highs of the peak BotW era not knowing what happened. Why did this have to happen to Zelda and not something like Kid Icarus.
what about totk
>>739969741it crossed the 20 million mark, so yeah, linear Zelda is fucking dead thank god
>>739969605forming your own opinions obviously means liking everything popular.
>>739967006normalfags equate big with being automatically better even if the scale is mostly superficial
>>739969846>liking one popular thing means you like every popular thingput your phone down kiddo. talk to people in real life
>>739970024>disliking one popular thing means you dislike every popular thinguh oh you made a stinky in your diaper
>>739970024Nta, but you're the one who was implying that people who don't like BotW are just doing it out of being a contrarian.
>>739970117>no unoooo ive been owned. dumbshit
>>73996900036.>>739967283The dungeons were terrible
>>739970229>>soul is inversely proportional to sale Is not "I don't like botw." If his post was "I don't like botw." I would have never posted anything
>>739970459it was an observation you actual low iq retard.
>>739970459>soul is inversely proportional to saleHe's not wrong.
Is this old millennial schizo going to cry about the past 20 years of Zelda until the day he dies?
>>739970370The dungeons were okay. The overworld was pretty good for once, so I can forgive that.>but it basically copied ALttPYeah, so it was good.
>>739966707Which zelda games are linear. Most are open world???
>>739966770thisstory wise is probably the best zelda game period, too bad it will probably never see a port or a movie adaptation
>>739970571millenials will probably outlive zoomers so get used to this until the end of your life :^)
>>739970571Oh honey, I'm not a millennial I'm among the eldest zoomers. I'll still be putting you in your place when we're both old and crotchety.
>>739970713A good chunk of them walk the line from "guided, but respectful" and "we're basically telling you where to go". Games like Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask and the Oracles fall into the former while Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword fall into the latter.
Interesting, now post link's crossbow training sales.
>>739970932>Majora's MaskBelongs in the former. It's pretty rail roaded into a set direction.
>>739967006No matter how many times you say it, you're still on the receiving end of this rape lol.
>>739969623>I'll bet money that if they make a third BotW the sales will be way more comparable to pre-BotW salesTotK was already that. Like I said earlier, it's entirely Switch kiddies and not the game itself. If it was then it would've sold well on its native console like every other Zelda.
>>739970510and im just giving a bumbling retard like you some advice. you'll feel a lot better if you stop getting mad at other people's enjoyment
>>739971084You're retarded.
>>739971084TOTK doubled the sales of the best selling non-BOTW Zelda game.
>>739971143botw will always be dogshit ubislop for retards no matter how hard you cry.
And people think they won't open world slopify the OOT remake.
>>739967006because exploration and discovery is fun, when done right
>>739967015This. A chart that adjusts for number of consoles sold would be more informative. >>739967148Overstated, and doesn't account for Majora's Mask selling less than half as many copies on the same console.
>>739966707Zelda II is underrated btw.
>>739971007That's what I said. The Game Boy Zeldas aren't dissimilar. That said, MM still doesn't literally rope you into one direction because the story says so. You can try to fuck around in it, it just really isn't worth the effort because it's clearly got the one path in mind.
>>739971084TotK is already a decent drop, and a lot of the public reception about it has been lukewarm because it's just BotW again but with vehicles. If Aonuma doesn't find a way to highly differentiate a sequel from BotW and TotK you'll see a decline that is more noticeable, and TotK is already showing that he doesn't really have any ideas on how to properly expand the idea.
>>739971247so when will anybody get it right
>>739971215I dont care
>>739971475wrong.
>>739970732>movie adaptationThere is no feasible scenario where this would ever be good.
>>739971397NTA, and this apparently isn't a common take, but as a dungeonfag I actually had a lot of fun exploring in Echoes of Wisdom. The world wasn't 200 hours of fucking nothing, it was pretty dense with new caves to spelunk and echoes to collect, plus it was fun to go places you clearly weren't supposed to go to yet in the first half. I probably had a good 30-ish hours with it and that's about as much as I'd want.
>>739971173>>739971181Looks like I struck a nerve.>>739971392I'll say it again, BotW didn't sell well because of the game itself. The system did all of the carrying. You'll at least see another BotW game before it bombs and Aonuma gets it through his head.
>>739968371Not everything is about "interesting" you.
>>739971612You didn't refute what I said, TOTK still outsold all of your precious games lol.
>>739971770I don't have to, the data does it for me. You're the one making the absurd claim otherwise.
>>739971263>Zelda 2 sold three times as much as BotW did on its original platformheh.
>>739966707How much did TotK sold?
>>739971612I still don't entirely buy that it was solely because of the Switch though. I had a Wii U and I didn't buy it on there because I knew it would be buying the game on a system I'll never return to, and plenty others were the same so the low attach rate on its native console makes sense. People who say sales = quality are also retards. They would argue that MK8 was a piss poor installment if Nintendo decided to release MK9 for the Switch instead of MK8D that blew the entire series out of the water.
>>739971806>Stating facts is an absurd claim The absolute state of ootsnoys.
Growing up people told me Twilight Princess was a gamecube game because it was originally made for Gamecube, even though it sold significantly more as a launch title on the Wii.Now, people tell me Breath of the Wild is a Switch game because it sold more on the Switch as a launch title, even though it was originally made for WiiU.WHICH IS IT?
>>739971987TP is a Gamecube game because waggle controls are shit.BOTW is a Switch game because only the most diehard tendies owned a Wii-U.
>>739966770It's the most playable 2D Zelda but structurally I found it gimmicky and shit. It started the same thing as BotW of stripping away the thing that made Zelda games feel rewarding progress in, by giving you everything (and then also spoiling you) upfront about what's in the game.A huge part of what made 40 hours of Twilight Princess or 50 hours of Skyward Sword's campaigns bearable to me is the whole fact of "what is the next dungeon like?" and "what items will I get in the game, and where can I use them?"When that's frontloaded the back half of the game, when you've completed 3 out of 7 dungeons starts to feel completely tedious to me.
Make it open world but at least put in 8 dungeons and have meaningful upgrades
>>739972086>he says, blissfully unaware that only the most diehard tendies owned a gamecube rather than a ps2 or xboxSo really which is it? Original console or better selling console?
>>739971987BotW is a Wii U game because it was developed for the Wii U, and they decided to delay its release so that they could market it as a launch title for the Switch.
>>739972225People who wanted to play games had a GameCube, people who wanted to play Wii Tennis with their grandma had a Wii. Therefore, more people who actually play games played the GC version.
>>739966707I'm interested in this graph as a percentage of console sales.
>>739971847To be fair, very little sold on WiiU.
>>739971987TP is a Gamecube game that was hastily ported to Wii as a launch title. BotW is a WiiU game that was also hastily ported to Switch as a launch title.
>>739971959>I still don't entirely buy that it was solely because of the Switch thoughIt's right there in OP's graph. You are severely underestimating how popular the Switch was especially during Covid. >I knew it would be buying the game on a system I'll never return toI don't know about that chief. If you were a Zeldafag then you'd buy it regardless.
>>739966707>make it gayer>make it more like a movie>sell 2x the most highly-rated game ever released priorThe God of War reboot got similar treatment despite being a linear game. If Nintendo ever figures out they can stick to linear content while pandering to Hollywood appeal (supplemented by their upcoming live-action movie), they can cut the open-world part out entirely and coast on the fact that video game consoomers overwhelmingly flock to whichever gay movie game has the highest budget at any given time.That's how Naughty Dog did it. That's how Kojima did it. That's how Ubisoft did it. That's how the entire industry does it, including Nintendo from this day forward.
>>739972160You want dungeons?The next zelda will have 200 Shei... Zon... KOKIRI shrines for you to complete!
>>739972417I have to wonder if there were a lot of Wii U owners that opted to just buy BotW on Switch instead of purchasing the Wii U version.
>>739971247The only organic answer to that question. BotW is fun to explore. The traversal and the geography work in tandem to pique your interest in ways that most open worlds fail at. Its as simple as that. The only other game to come close in my opinion is Elden Ring, but its good for completely different reasons
>>739972532I did buy it, but it was with the Switch on launch day. Most Wii U owners did this too, because there was nothing else worthwhile on the Switch. A good fucking decision too because everything worthwhile on the Wii U was ported to the Switch, so I don't need to dig it out if I wanna play BotW
>>739972567>including Nintendo from this day forwardThey've literally never done what you're describing
>>739972576I bought the WiiU version because I know better than to buy a console at launch, and had a WiiU around for Fatal Frame 5 anyways. I regret nothing, least of all because I ended up not liking BotW on a fundamental level anyways.
>>739972576I got it on WiiU because money was tight at the time and I could get the Mario Odyssey package later on. Aside from BOTW Switch took a handful of months to get games anyway, not unlike Switch 2 right now.
>>739968371Liking them doesn't mean you belong, sheep.
>>739972739I bought a Wii U for Zelda U in 2015. I'd be damned if I didn't buy it for the Wii U. I loved the game and bought it again on Switch years later at a discount
>>739972723Oh? Why does Donkey Kong look like the moviejew again?
>>739972807Bananza plays nothing like a movie game>moviejewI have /pol/fag fatigue
>>739972803>Buying a system for a game that isn't even out yetYou'd think people would learn their lesson after TP and KH3 not releasing on the PS3
>future of Zelda is just going to be more Genshin Impactlikes foreverGrim
>>739972913bro... I was 8 when TP came out...
>>739972389Zelda 1 sold ~7M on a console that sold 62MALttP sold ~6M on a console that sold 49MOoT sold ~8M on a console that sold 33MWW sold ~4M on a console that sold 22MTP sold ~8M and SS sold ~4M on a console that sold 102MBotW sold ~35M on a console that sold 155MOoT actually has the highest attach rate of the major home console Zeldas, I think?
>>739972901>I have /pol/fag fatigueCome tf off it with that. Maybe I should have said "celebrity likeness" so as not to trigger your paranoia about the Voldemort board.
>>739972985>celebrity likenesswhat the fuck are you talking about?
>>739973039Think more, post less.
>>739972970>BotW sold ~35M on a console that sold 155MWii U sold 13 mil and BotW didn't sell nearly that much.
>>739973062You aren't making any sense. What character looks like a celebrity in Bananza? They're all cartoons...
>>739972913I had a Gamecube when TP came out but two things with this. One, leading up to the launch, do you have any idea how cool it sounded to be able to swing the remote to swing Link's sword? That shit sounded revolutionary at the time. We know the reality of it now, but not before it launched. Two, people regularly forget that the Gamecube version's launch was delayed about a month after the Wii launched. Pretty much no one noticed that it even happened at the time, all eyes were on Wii as it was also a marketing juggernaut. No one cared what was happening on Gamecube anymore, not in the moment.
>>739972967I was only 2 years older than you and I was aware of gaming delays and companies delaying games for their next console.
>>739972970Well shit I guess I'll do the math then.Zelda 1 11%ALttP 12%OoT 24%WW 18%TP 8%SS 4%BotW 5% (WiiU)BotW 23% (Switch)
>>739973209I wasn't as tapped in as you. I spent a lot of my teenage years completely checked out on video games
>>739973098The Wii U version contributes so negligibly to BOTW's sales that I excluded it from my post, like an even more extreme version of the situation between TP for Gamecube and Wii.BotW sold 33M total, not 35M, my mistake. Probably 32M of that was the Switch version. Still doesn't make its attach rate better than OOT's though.
>>739968726It's really obnoxious when they pull the IM TOTALLY AN NES KID AND THIS IS TOTALLY MY LE DREAM ZELDA GAME larp. Especially when you let them keep talking and they inadvertently let it slip that they haven't actually touched any of the games they talk about.
>>739973228Attach rate.
There are no bad Zelda games
>>739966707A far higher percentage of N64 owners bought OoT than Switch owners bought BotW.
>>739973387I got one of them to admit they think it's "boring and mechanical" when there's only one instance of a given item, once.
>>739973291BotW's attach rate for Switch was insane...at launch. At one point, Switch copies of the game had outsold the console itself due to supply shortages.>https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/04/15/wait-how-did-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-for-switch-outsell-the-switch-itself/>But when you dig into the numbers, one rather strange aspect of this news emerges. The Nintendo Switch sold 906,000 units in March. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild sold 925,000 units.>I thought the answer was obvious, that those Breath of the Wild figures include Wii U totals. They don’t. That’s 925,000 Switch copies of Zelda, while 460,000 copies were sold for Wii U.>So, Zelda: Breath of the Wild has a 102% attach rate on the Switch.
>>739973387>>739973486>they>themand are these boogeymen in the room with us right now?
>>739973113Nintendo made DK look like the Hollywood actor that voiced him in the Mario movie. There was a whole big thing about it.
>>739973442BotW's attach rate is not over 30 percent, what the hell?
>>739973387They're focusing more on Starfox instead of Zelda right now at least. They're pretending the old school designs look like the new designs while both are shit. Nobody was complaining about wanting to return to those SNES designs when the N64 designs became the standard, absolutely no one.
>>739973561Oh my god. Do people actually believe this?>There was a whole big thing about itI don't know what discord server you're talking about but I think maybe you should leave it for your own good
>>739971959>I had a Wii U but decided to buy it for the Switch insteadMost people did this, like I said that anon is retarded.
>>739967148You are underage or grew up as a friendless loser
>>739973509So people who had literally no way to tell how the game actually was contributed to giving it a statistically anomalous launch. What were they going on, just the advertisements and hype?
>>739973607Chart maker may have mushed in WiiU/Switch2 sales (cheating)
>>739967824Goldeneye is single stick retard
>>739973684Zelda had been in a dire place for so long after Skyward Sword that something completely different for the series paired with rave reviews and hype created the perfect storm
>>739973442We're talking about the attach rate of Switch owners owning BotW, not how many MK8D owners bought BotW
>>739971612>BotW didn't sell well because of the game itself. The system did all of the carrying.Wait, How Did 'Zelda: Breath of the Wild' For Switch Outsell The Switch Itself?But when you dig into the numbers, one rather strange aspect of this news emerges. The Nintendo Switch sold 906,000 units in March. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild sold 925,000 units.I thought the answer was obvious, that those Breath of the Wild figures include Wii U totals. They don’t. That’s 925,000 Switch copies of Zelda, while 460,000 copies were sold for Wii U.So, Zelda: Breath of the Wild has a 102% attach rate on the Switch.Nintendo has a few ideas, according to The Verge. They believe that some ultra-fans may have bought both the regular version of the game and the collector’s edition, and there are enough Zelda die-hards out there where I can definitely believe that happened.Also, it’s entirely possible that because of the Switch being sold out in so many locations, many consumers simply bought Zelda with the idea that they would get a Switch eventually, so they might as well pick up a copy of the must-have game for it while it was in front of them.This sounds almost ridiculous, but it speaks to both the core appeal of the Switch, that consumers are so confident they’re going to want one as soon as its back in stock that they’re willing to pre-purchase games, and the appeal of Zelda itself, which has been reviewed as one of the best video games ever, a statement that I will not dispute after 100+ hours with the game.>source ForbesGame outsold the fucking console it was on for the first year.
>>739973782And now Nintendo thinks all that popularity is because of the exact way BotW was designed, and has started applying its design blindly to other franchises they control.God, I hate corporations sometimes.
>>739973442>>739973607>BotW Switch>35 mil / 156 mil>~22%So, about equal with OoT, then.
>>739973939Yeah, but given that the advertising industry was less of a fine tuned machine and gaming as a hobby wasn't yet completely filled with people who will buy whatever's hyped back during its release, OoT's attach rate is more impressive to me than BotW's.
>millennial manchild that can't get over OoT legitimately what causes this to be such a common type of guy
>>739973935Yeah, on the bright side many of their more recent games have not been hitting sales targets. A lot of switch 2 games going for cheap from retailers because they can't sell their stock. It takes time for these things to reverberate through such a large corporation, but in the end it will benefit us as consumers for them to flounder a bit.
>>739973935It is because of its design
>>739973486I had one claim that you didn't have to do any of the main dungeons in Zelda 1 and that you could just do Death Mountain right away, and that's why BotW lets you go right to Ganon.
>>739974087I don't know. OoT is my favorite Zelda game, but I also love BotW. I think some people just have a hard time expanding their tastes as they get older.
>>739973442>flubbing 400,000 additional Ocarina of Time unitswhy did you do this
>>739974087>your nostalgia for old game bad>my nostalgia for old game good
>>739973939during the first year Botw had a 102% attach rate, which is unprecedented
>>739973684BOTW hype was insane before and after launch, old fans who disliked skyward swords story heavy and linear game design were hyped for something taking a radical new direction away from that design philosophy and the handheld open world was huge selling point for normies.
>>739973651As any smart person did. Notice how the people here who bought it on Wii U ended up buying it again on Switch, because there was very little reason to keep it around
>>739973486It is boring and mechanical
you can always tell exactly when the BotWfag discord shows up
>>739974359Then Zelda 1 was boring and mechanical. Most of the items have only one copy.
>>739974362Most BotW never even touched 95% of the series. I wouldn't consider them Zelda fans, just BotW fans.
>>739966707>Linear ZeldaFake ass zelda you meanZelda 1 to Alttp mogs that shit
>>739974362Fans can't betray a company.The company stopped making what the fans liked and they stopped being fans of the company's current output.
>>739974506>Botw fags are just like Wind Waker fags.
>>739974580Worse, WWfags typically couldn't outnumber you.
>>739974104>OoTsnoyI don't think you know what snoy is supposed to mean.
>>739966707Come home Zelda man
>>739966707>Spirit Tracks couldn't even reach 3 millionThat's okay. Let people go ignorant of what peak Zelda is like.>>739967006I don't, but if the choice is between getting another Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword, or another BoTW or ToTK I'm picking the fucking latter in a heartbeat. 3D Zelda hasn't been good since OoT and even that game had to get cut to hell and back just so it could exist.
>>739974485Yeah that's boring. Botw and Totk felt better because I was obtaining these organically and there was a series of narratives behind them. Like I got this from this archer, just before he sniped me, ect. In Zelda 1 you just push a block and walk down into the basement to pick it up. It's very mechanical. All the basements are built the same. It's boring.Be honest, you play Zelda 1, you go down into these exact same basements with the item sitting there, do you do your happy dance yippee?
>>739974678I'm excited about this as a classical zelda fan, something about fairies makes me feel right at home
>>739974690I love ST too man but "peak Zelda" by definition can't include any negotiating with the DS's shitty ass microphone. Sorry. Close though.
>>739974690Phantom Hourglass didn't exactly have a sterling reputation among fans, and of those that did play Spirit Tracks many found the train and flute to be controversial mechanics. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it did that well.
>>739974631So tired of normalfaggots acting like they own the place when they trash almost the entire history of the franchise. It's exclusively a zoomer mindset too.
>>739974678>Square Enix Zelda gameThis is going to be some Oracles kino for damn sure.
>>739974781As opposed to clamoring for more and more of the fresh formula of non-linear open world?
>>739974726And for me it's the opposite. The fact that the bow I got from that archer is the exact same as the one I got from a chest aside from a number makes me forget the story behind both of them.In Zelda 1, I get the bow, I know there wasn't 50 other bows each hidden under every rock I could possibly think to turn over, so it feels better.
The trannies are here. Time to jump ship. Good thread while it lasted, guys.
>>739974839Then what does "snoy" mean? I thought it meant someone who was a fan of Sony. Liking an old Nintendo game doesn't relate.
>>739974781I've thought about that formula and how it pertains to Zelda, and I came to realization that it's why Metroid hasn't done well historically. The way those previous Zelda games were designed was like Metroid, so there was a ton of "Metroid fans" that never looked for their fix outside of Zelda. It explains a lot when you consider it.
>>739967006Majority of players don't finish games.
>>739974889Tons of potential there to do things, Aonuma doesn't see many possiblities left for the old formula. By Skyward Sword they were throwing stuff at the wall. In Tears of the Kingdom they managed to fully pull off stuff they wanted to in Skyward Sword but were unable due to hardware constraints.
>>739974972Anon, the person you're talking to is a troll.
>>739973459>Says this while posting TFHEating shit and learning how to love it, huh?
>>739975083Aonuma already said they were out of ideas for BotW with TotK lmao. Aonuma struggles to elaborate on imagination and is quick to call anything a dead end.
>muh porcentagesfucking cope kek, by that logic PH and ST should have sold as much as BOTW and TOTK since the DS sold as much as the DS
>>739975147>"snoys were nintendo fans"You thought snoy was just a clever workaround for the filter and are now trying to damage control, aren't you.
>>739975147But if they were snoys wouldn't they be worshipping that era of Sony instead? Why would a snoy be filtering his hate for Nintendo through being a fan of older Nintendo stuff and not through being a fan of Sony stuff?Was Nintendo itself "snoy" until the Switch?
>>739974905Well I appreciate the variety and the ludo narrative of finding and using my tools. Besides, it's nice for there to be so many kinds of bows too. We still talking Zelda 1 I'm quite sure it's just called the "Bow" and, yeah I am not about to strike happy dance yippee there.
>>739975156I've actually never played TFH. I just like blue tunic link. You should kill yourself though
>>739974279>BotW gets a bonus because of preordersI don't really buy that because that's the sort of data point that comes out in the wash. A better objection would be that the Wii and Switch titles got their attach rates watered down in the end by more casual fans buying the console for other games and not Zelda. Mario Kart moved more consoles than Zelda.But no attempt to normalize statistics across decades with changing markets and technologies, not to mention digital sales becoming common, is ever going to be perfect.
>>739975197>Aonuma already said they were out of ideas for BotW with TotKThey were not, Totk is the result of an overwhelming amount of ideas left after finishing Botw.
>>739975280newfag
>>739975292I appreciate the variety of only being able to find a specific tool in a specific place. Far better than the pure bland entropy of most of the items in the game being potential random drops from an omnipresent type of challenge.
>>739975285Anon, I told you. The person you're talking to is a troll. Stop engaging with the retard and giving them attention.
>>739971579Same, I actually played through it twice cause second time was for autism OCD with the order I wanted the stamps to be in the stamp book lol.But it's crazy to me that the overworld is based on ALTTP's. The last original 2D overworld was Minish Cap.
>>739975437OoT is a Nintendo game and therefore a fan of OoT is at least partway to a Nintendo fan.Liking OoT provides no evidence towards being a fan of any other gaming company. Much less Sony, one of Nintendo's biggest competitors.I don't give a shit about Nintendo being successful. I like the games I like and don't like when Nintendo implies the games I like are shit.
>>739975323In the end for the Wii? man it's day 1 with the Wii Sports bundle. Zelda being a launch title drove Switch hardware sales, it's quite different. We should be comparing Botw to Wii Sports if we want to see some metrics.
>>739975156>hating TFHreddit is that way chief. /v/ is a TFH board.
>>739975425That's not variety, what you're describing is a static truism that is over represented in every older title. If you enjoyed variety you would celebrate Wild era Zelda for this time.
>>739975350Nothing says "overwhelming amount of ideas" like reusing not just the world of BotW but a shit ton of its plot and progression beats too. TotK was a cowardly game.
>>739975301>I've never played the game I'm defending Pottery. Follow your own advice sugar.
>>739975656Why do you have this saved on your computer?
>>739975628It was a deliberate choice to feature the same world of Hyrule. It also has the depths and the sky, but you're too hung up on the game literally being a sequel.
>>739975545How devilish.>Wii Sports (Wii): 82.9 million copies / 101.6 million consoles = ~82%Breath of the Wild, eat your heart out.
>>739975731>It was a deliberate choice to feature the same world of Hyrule.And it was a bad deliberate choice.
>>739975604I enjoy variety and therefore don't like it when most of the loot is standardized in an attempt to avoid any chance of the game giving you something completely unusable for your current context, without giving your context much say in what loot you get.
>>739975634predictable low iq response
>>73997576982% bundle vs 102% not bundleddevilish indeed?
>>739975718You don't wanna have sex with a shota?
>>739975853It's similar to Majora's Mask, but you aren't ready.
>>739967823botw was briefly over 100% attach rate, more copies were sold than devices that could play it
>>739975883You don't enjoy variety, and have become nose blind to the standardization in the games. From getting them all in a basement, to getting them all in a chest, to getting a hookshot or a bow in every game, doing the same thing from game to game; versus when Botw did something innovative, finally.
>>739976027i heard this happened to pokemon ruby
>>739975938nta but I prefer lolis.
>>739966707BotW is better than any non-OoT zelda game and /v/ needs to learn to cope with that. Nintendo can never re-create a game like OoT again, the Iwata era sucked every last drop of testosterone out of the company
>>739975992Yes I remember when Majora's Mask reused the same Hyrule as OoT, had its dungeons in the same regions as OoT, had the same plot as OoT with minor tweaks, and had the same structure as OoT.
>>739975938
>>739976141Thank you for seeing the light
>>739976117You prefer lolis, which means you don't entirely disregard cute shotas
>>739968116But it will also be open world.Censored, heavily toned down Shadow Temple with not just blood removed but also torture instruments, retcon of the fact Kakariko villagers live on top of Hyrule's torture dungeon, or may have straight up partaken.
>>739976059See, I don't demand those specific elements continue. I just don't think that removing the very concept of a piece of loot you find having a unique, active function that you use to access a significant new portion of the game world was a fix for the stagnation. Removing Aonuma probably would've helped more.
>>739976059Variety is when having four abilities, having over a third of Shrines as Tests of Strength or Blessings, having four or five weapon types throughout the entire game, having one of the series' smallest enemy pools, the dungeons all having the same aesthetic, and the same handful of Korok puzzles are recycled 900 times.
>>739975931A stat that vanishes once supply catches up with demand is kind of a weird thing to keep insisting on, but I guess it demonstrates that there was hype, if nothing else.
>>739976291What if the oot remake is false/misunderstood and it's actually just a third entry into oot link's story instead?We know he at least encounters Malon again, and Hyrule Historia never adresses where the ocarina of time went after MM.
>>739967006zelda 1 was open world and ut was the hardest
>>739966707hell yeah.Link to the Past and Zelda 1 were my two first Zelda games. Playing all of them that came after always disappointed me a bit that it just didn't feel the same, until Breath of the Wild.
>>739973387found one>>739976917
>>739973561It was the other way around.
>>739976559I had a much harder time with Zelda 2
good
Looks like I repeled the trannies. You're welcome.
She's so cute
>>739966707nintendo is a social media console, reason why switch became so popular.same thing happened during the Wii days.
>>7399667704 Million is great you loon. Nintendo does not have bloated budgets, they stated they only needed 2 million in sales to make profit from BOTW. Now imagine a 3DS game
>>739968371Fuck off tasteless zoomer
>>739977662Even this sold 4 million copies
>>739977703It literally only play games lol.
>>739977703>2006>social media7th gen wasn't really plugged into social media at the start. I mean sure, Myspace was a thing and Youtube/Twitter/public Facebook were all in their infancy, so maybe give it a year or two I suppose, and by then Wii's luster was already starting to fade. Wii had a very, very successful "Wii would like to play" TV ad campaign that it built its brand from.
>>739966707eh, they had already raped the canon beforehand so I'm ok with the series being for gen alpha now.
>>739976230Maybe one out of ten times, reduced to one in four when he's teaming up with a loli.
>>739968240they really are parasites because they aren't Nintendo fans. they actively look down on older consoles and games, they just consume and destroy and then they get angry when you call them out. it's sickening
>>739966707Zelda was never good.BotW isn't even Zelda. It's random Ubislop with a Nintendo coat of paint. Hilarious how tendies are fawning over it.
>>739973387Is it that hard to believe that not all of us were snot nosed 10 year olds when OoT came out, and that we liked the Zelda series before you came along and turned it into yearly rehashes of the same game?
Tendies be like>I want linear zelda!and then say>Oh no I don't want to play indie games. I only play popular games.>what? a PC port of an older Zelda game? Those are illegal and you should be reportedI don't think you people actually enjoy vidya.
>>739980771This demo was alright. Is the game out yet?
>>739966707No, not really.
>>739966707>120 shrines and 3 divine beasts instead of 12 dungeons>900 Korok seeds instead of 24 pieces of heartI fail to see how that is an improvement. The only true difference in progression between Classic Zelda and Breath of the Wild is that everything is spread out over a boring, soulless map in BotW, and gatekeeping has been reduced to four essential abilities and the acquirement of four Runes. The game just pretty much gatekeeps the player with geography and tough enemies like Lynels. Breath of the Wild feels like an amusement park, with the only difference that you have to climb some mountain to get to the next shitty shrine.Admittingly, the small maps in classic Zelda always kind of bugged me, so a big map is great, but there is nothing to do other mundane and repetitive shit. I'd rather go on a huge and enduring adventure to get to the next dungeon/palace instead of shield surfing on snow and gliding from Ubisoft towers to the next check mark on your map.
>>739976291wouldn't be surprised, Nintendo doesn't write nuance anymore and it also refuses to truest the emotional intelligence of their fans. hyrule and the royal family have to be painted as entirely good or nu-fans will feel threatened
>>739966770>Link Between Worlds is such an outstanding gameIt is just ok. A Link to the Past is vastly superior.
>>739966707This is proof that multiplayer Zelda is retarded
>>739980898>Admittingly, the small maps in classic Zelda always kind of bugged me, so a big map is greatI disagree here, I prefer a map that's far more compact than BotW. I wouldn't want any bigger than EoW, really.
>>739980898>I fail to see how that is an improvement.Freedom, non-linearity, player agency, discoveryLack of hand-holding, no fairy companion for toddlers spoonfeeding you what to do all the time>The only true difference in progression between Classic Zelda and Breath of the Wild is that everything is spread out over a boring, soulless map in BotWThe map is anything but soulless, there are always plenty of interesting landmarks in the distance, great use of vertical layers, subtle player guidance etc>and gatekeeping has been reduced to four essential abilities and the acquirement of four Runes.You don't even understand or think about game design at all do you? There are plenty of soft gating examples, like elementals and all about player resourcefulness>The game just pretty much gatekeeps the player with geographyYes isn't that great, meaningful environments>and tough enemies like Lynels.Lynels don't gatekeep anything, they can all easily be ignored or bypassed. Ganon being accessible early on but a challenge however is a great example of what makes BOTW design so good and unique>Breath of the Wild feels like an amusement park, with the only difference that you have to climb some mountain to get to the next shitty shrine.A large portion of the shrine are hidden behind riddles or environmental obstacles (problem solving)
i loved WIND WAKER and i wish it got a sequel on gamecube or wii instead of crummy twilight princess i want to sail the seven seas FOREVER!!!
why did skyward sword sell so much elss on the wii than Twilight princess
>>739981367FSA was an earnest attempt to make use of the GBA Links for a multiplayer experience alongside making a good singleplayer campaign. TFH was where they went full retard.
>>739981537>freedom, non linearity, player agencyThis is already disproven from the moment you start playing the game, since the game forces you on rails and prevents you from leaving the plateau early.
>>739966707Genuinely unfortunate because Zelda is just monumentally superior in a top down format. Link Between Worlds might be the best game in the series at this point. By contrast, Breath of the Wild is so disjointed and dependent on physics gimmicks and an empty, directionless open world that it's one of the only titles in the series I started and didn't finish. I didn't even try the one after it. Just no interest in that kind of experience.
>>739981662>earnest>if you want to play this 4-player Gamecube game with your friends, pony up for 3 GBAs and 3 link cables>pay no attention to the 4 controller ports on your console, they aren't realThe low sales were very deserved.
>>739972970Ocarina of Time is also the best Zelda game. Nintendo was never able to recapture that magic in subsequent Zelda games.
>>739981757Kind of this, except I did drag myself to the finish line with BotW. I did soft drop it for 6 months before doing so. Fuck if I'll ever play another game like this again.
>>739981695there's more freedom and non-linearity in the plateau than in all of twilight princess
>>739980898>>739981450I don't think it's a matter of size, it's that even by intention it's only meant to be empty space between shrines that you just skip with the glider. The few regions which actually do have guided level design really highlight that the other 75% of the game is a generated heightmap with shit distributed randomly.
>>739982016So how do you skip it?
>>739966707blame skyward sword for being so shit that they had to change course.
>>739982092you cannot skip it but you can do the 4 shrines in any order, isn't that cool
>>739982162Not really.
>>739980771>>Oh no I don't want to play indie games. I only play popular games.I'd love it if someone did but they're constantly dogshit or usually not actually like zelda. Look at Mina The Follower it was advertised as zelda-like and it turns out that just meant top down 2d game with gbc graphics.
>>739981831It worked when you had everything setup.TFH had to cut a Link because the system couldn't handle it.
>>739982285Bro? Your Pipistrello and Prodigal? Also Mina was never advertised as a Zelda.
>>739982285tell me about mina, is it any good? i saw there was an indie nostalgiaslop 3D action adventure coming out made to look like gamecube zelda too
>>739982153But it was a good game aside from the shit controls
>>739966707OoT remake will sell 10 million by the end of this year. It'll outsell the original by the end of next year. Probably won't reach BotW numbers but I could see it outselling TotK long term if it's truly outstanding
>>739977875>2 million in sales to make profit from BOTWThat SEEMS crazy, but is completely in line with a game development that mostly stuck to their budget.
>>739966707B-b-but BotW failed because I said so, or something.
>>739973758There is a dual analog option. You need two controllers though. I didn't try it back in the day but I did ~2015ish and it was pretty good. Worked well. The game wasn't really designed for dual analog though.
>>739980296correct opinion (same with masuda era pokemon)
>>739969350I went to look for the straw wrapper on my desk after I finished watching this webm. I am retarded. That is all.
>>739970986Fuck, I always wanted to play that game. I should have bought it and that DQ Swords game back in the day.
>>739971987>>739972270Wii U chads actually got ripped off since the second screen was going to be for inventory management and map. They disabled that on the Wii U so that the Switch version wasn't missing features.
>>739973935Whoever decided Animal Crossing needed the “BotW weapon durability” system should be fed through a meat grinder while fully conscious.
>>739973171Wii should have launched with the Motion+ capability. I mean it did fine anyways, but people wouldn't be so turned off at motion controls today if it did that.
>>739982606>Fi>the backtracking, no new areas after the desert>the imprisoned>every enemy is a motion controls gimmick, I didn't even hate the swordplay but there was nothing to the combat other than that>constant interruptions and handholding (not as bad in the switch version)Its still a great game but its got some real noticeable flaws. Also people were just tired of the zelda formula at that point. I miss linear zelda but the series really needed a big shake up at that point. botw isn't perfect but it was the right decision.
>>739966707BotW didn't sell that well in the wiiu, I'm thinking that no matter the gimmick a mainline Zelda in the switch was going to make big numbers.
>>739967006because forced tutorials and handholding are gay
>>739972671>BotW is fun to explore. The traversal and the geography work in tandem to pique your interestExcept that once you finish exploring the map and realize that there is literally nothing unique to find except the Master Sword only an extreme minority of people will ever consider picking it up again. That's one of the core issues that will haunt these shitty open world games in the future. When BOTW turns 20 it will not be looked back at nearly as fondly as OOT was.
>>739983257Shoulda, woulda, coulda. That they were able to take public feedback and refine the tech in some 2 or 3 years is honestly impressive enough.
>>739983587All-you-can-eat buffet style games of copy paste content are also really fucking gay.
>>739983587>forced tutorialsBut enough about BOTW and TOTK.
I'm fine without linear but I want actual brain teaser dungeons, not shrines, no dumb ass gimmicks like stopping time, gluing shit together etc, and weapons that don't break every 5 minutes.
What did Botw do so right that it and totk sold 60 million copies? What was special? What was unique? What did it change about gaming moving forward?
>>739983086What makes this so tragic is we got a small sneak peak of what it would have been like with WW/TPHD. And it's maddening that TotK, a game designed exclusively for switch, somehow suffers even more from the lack of a gamepad for inventory management
>>739984060made towers and instant teleportation even more popular than it was before!
>>739984060It helped make the Ubisoft formula more appealing to weebs. Other than that it didn't change much, as being a cinematic experience for sandboxing homosexuals was already established and profitable territory.
>>739980979>A Link to the Past is vastly superiorThrough your rose-tinted-glasses, maybe.
>>739980657Yearly rehashes with new worlds and styles is infinitely better than waiting 6 years for an expansion pack
>>739984107That's funny, I was actually thinking of TOTK as I wrote my post. BOTW could get away with it as inventory management was 'relatively' simple. But TOTK menus are atrocious with the fuse shit. I have tried to replay TOTK, but can't bring myself to do it again. A minimalist run might be cool, but if I'm being honest, I'm just not that good and my backlog of games is already ridiculous.
>>739984060It did nothing unique, it just fully turned Zelda into an aesthetic for normalfags to momentarily wear
>>739983614Yeah yeah, not hating. I had fun with original Golf on Wii Sports, but the upgraded Motion + Golf was so much better. And nobody talks about the disc golf addition, but it was so much better than even the main golf modes.
>Spirit Tracks, one of the shittiest games in the franchise, outsold Minish Cap by nearly doubleFucking grim.
>>739984437ALTTP is objectively better than LBW and I love LBW. LBW just has Hilda which is pretty great.
>>739984861I thought spirit Tracks was fun...
>>739966707Can't believe we didn't have a real Zelda game between OoT and twilight Princess
>>739972567>>make it gayerThey already did that when they revealed Toon Link for the first time.
>>739984861Spirit Tracks was the last solid Zelda across the board, and had the best Zelda to date. Seventeen years and still going strong.
>>739972567OoT is still higher rated than BOTW no matter how much you hate it lol
>>739985270Tetra would be ashamed of how dainty and girly her granddaughter is
>>739985270>Spirit tracks was 17 years agoIF I COULD STORE TIME IN A BOTTLE
>>739966707How come TP sold so much more than WW?Even discounting rereleases?
>>739985637people really liked the edgelord aesthetics despite what internet nobodies will tell you
>>739985637They probably thought TP looked better even though the actual game was hideous once you get past its promotional material.
>>739984060In my case as a lifelong Zelda fan it realised a lot of things that I'd always fantasised about growing up, consolidating and reinterpreting overworld elements from across the series, presenting the kind of picturesque and seamless (but not totally barren) Hyrule tantalisingly glimpsed in the inaccessible low-poly panorama around Wind Waker's Hyrule Castle, with oldschool fanservice like Death Valley and a Gerudo homeland, plus simple and satisfying parry/reflect and timed dodge mechanics that (along with spears and physics) went some way to solving the eternal problem of making 3D Zelda's chanbara combat actually fun without making it cuhrayzee or rollslop. I also enjoyed the soundtrack a great deal and learned to appreciate durability and shrines. But mainly, I enjoyed the ease of installing mods on the Wii-U emulator and thereby playing as a cute girl, which did not contribute to the sales.>What did it change about gaming moving forward?Probably nothing. The video game industry is a zombie outside of romhacks, indie retro facsimiles, and cozy trash for women. It's been 10 years and games have only gotten worse. They are a lost cause. Fortunately, there is enough fun stuff already made that we can now go back and appreciate them as part of a complete 30-year continuity, in a hermetic vacuum that no longer must be considered with future creative or technological advances in mind.
I'd beat TP if it didn't have the wolf link sections, they tried to make it bearable by having Midna's fat imp ass slam down on your back and have it shoved right in your face 24/7 but fucking hell I hate everything else
>>739966707>Zelda is deadftfy
>>739985496https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVVi-u0I_mYWaking up and playing the game and hearing this track really made me happy. It felt like a hidden gem from the 90's. A compact yet vast world, every time you discovered new tracks, you got a new area to visit, making every new area discovered feel special. Avoiding the bullet trains was fun too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HVvSYYEfo4
>>739985951Zelda died when Aonuma replaced it with Linear Zelda, and now zoomers think that's what Zelda is.
>>739985270I don't know why I beat this game 4 times, but I will agree that it has the best Zelda and at least experimented a bit with multiple endings.
>>739985637Many aspects of TWW were controversial -- graphics and length aside, it was a departure from the traditional Hyrule setting we were used to only seeing on the Game Boy -- while TP was pushed as a return-to-form sequel to OOT, while also coming a few years after LOTR when everyone was clamoring for epic high fantasy, and being a launch title for the Wii, which everyone on the planet owned, with relatively tame waggle mechanics and a fun fishing minigame. Many people also wished to have sexual relations with Midna, Beth, Ashei, Telma, Zelda, Link, Wolf Link, Agitha, Ilia, Renado's son because we thought he was a girl, Puppet Zelda, Yeta, Hena, Hena's ugly sister, Hag Midna, the Shadow Beasts, several Castle Town NPCs, Colin's mother, a hypothetical female Darknut, Boko Babas, Zant, Ganondorf, Telma's cat, the cut Sheik design that went to Brawl, and Epona.
>>739986323Sex sells
>>739986323holy based
>>739986323Nigga nobody wants to fuck Ilia's ugly ass
>>739966707I understand the conclusion OP want us to take from the graph but they're overlooking key data point.>Switch 1 sold insanely well. N64 had 33 million in sale Switch had 156 million.>Console launched title Zelda games sell better than Zelda games released late in console life. See TP on GC vs Wii or BotW on WiiU vs Switch.>Handheld Zelda sells worse than console Zelda. >>739966759>>739967823Yes it blew my mind that TP sold as well as OoT and then I remembered It was a launch title for the Wii and only had an 8% attach rate for the Wii My back of the napkin math says OoT has a higher attach rate on N64 at around 23%, then WW with about 22%, then BotW on switch with 18%.
>>739983956BOTW has the best tutorial ever tho.
>>739969539> struggle to retain what they were even about.Depends what you think the Zelda series is about, what I think it's about is not what the majority think it's about.The majority thinks it's about a fairy boy in a green tunic, a pig demon, an elf princess and melodrama. That's it, they'll buy anything with those elements. That's what Zelda is to them, the surface level elements.For me, the series is about item progression, exploration and dungeon progression. The first zelda game had you exploring the world to find dungeons, completing those dungeons, getting items within those dungeons then using those items while exploring new dungeons. You could argue that it was "open world" but then you've probably never played the game because there is a sequence these dungeons have. You can sequence break, but there is a logical order they are done in. Haven't actually played Zelda 2 because fuck sidescrollers, but the gameplay seems to be the same loop of explore to find dungeon, find item in dungeon, use items in next dungeon. ALTTP, Minish Cap, Oracle of Seasons/Ages, TP, SS, WW, all have this same progression through the game. If you look at the series in this fashion, TP is the best because it has the best dungeons and the best items, but that's debatable because your favorite set of dungeons and items might be in a different game.The new Zeldas abandoned this formula in favor of a open world survival crafting, which means they really aren't zelda games, they're open world survival crafting games with a fairy boy in a green tunic, a pig demon, an elf princess and melodrama.
>>739986784>Console launched title Zelda games sell better than Zelda games released late in console lifeAnd this is going to bite them in the ass with BotW3. Who thought it was a good idea to release both BotW and TotK at launch and then leave it at that? Instead of pretending that you're done with the setting, you should have just simply released BotW3 shamelessly at launch and then release BotW Anniversary Edition (a decade next year, feeling old yet?) in 2027.
>>739986801>BOTW has the best tutorialNO zelda1 had the best tutorial
>>739986801But it's not skippable, which betrays the whole concept of the game, which is "YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT".
>>739987030Nah, you can still do whatever you want. The real thing that betrays the whole concept of the game is that fuck awful Yiga Fortress stealth segment. The game has to arbitrarily break so many of its own rules because NOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO DO A STEALTH SEGMENT IT'S MY STEALTH SEGMENT TIME I HATE WHEN YOU USE THE SWORD HAVE A STEALTH SECTION
>>739987242>Nah, you can still do whatever you wantExcept skip it.
>>739968371Yes it does.
>>739968371>JUST HECKIN LET PEOPLE ENJOY THINGSkys retard
>I'm glad Zelda started appealing to non-Zelda fans because it heckin owns the Zelda fansand OoTfags are supposed to be the snoys?
>>739966770I'm not gonna lie, I played ALBW for about 15 seconds before realizing the game does not let you use the dpad to move and then I turned it off
>>739987543Pussy. Just adapt.
>>739987536OoT fanboys aren't Zelda fans. You're glorified snoys in that Nintendo and Zelda being successful appears to make you seethe to no end, as evidenced by this thread.
>>739987543Strangest thing is they let you use the hookshot on diagonals but no "puzzle" ever requires diagonal aiming so you'll really just fuck yourself up if you hook at diagonals.
>>739966770I hated how fun that game was because before I realized it, it was already over. It was super short even when I went out of my way to get all pieces of heart blind.It should have been at least twice the lenght.
>>739987817nobody will ever join you on this crusade. you will walk this earth as a deranged pariah, forever
>>739987871We're looking forward to your seething in this week's Famitsu thread.
>>739968371how many people did you hear this statement from before you decided to start repeating it verbatim?
>>739987817awww someone's mad his posts got deleted
>>739987817This is fucking rich
>>739987948>We're
>>739987948Lucky us, we don't even have to wait a week for seething, since you're doing plenty of that ITT.
>>739985637>WWThat's why.
>>739966976Same. Fuck Nintendo forever for that one imo tbdesu.
BotWfags vs OoTfags
>>739966707now show Tears of the Kingdom's saes
>>739967006because walking for 20 minutes to the next puzzle or enemy encounter is "fun."
>>739966707Surely that’s the only variable and there are no confounding factors
>>739987543>LA remake forces stick for 8-way movement
>>739987030>but it's not skippableyea tutorials are never skippable unless they're straight up removed from any in world context, retard. it's a microcosm for the rest of the game
>>739989697>yea tutorials are never skippable
>>739989781show me an in world tutorial like botw's that's skippable. i shall eagerly await, sire
>>739989979The Kokiri Forest is full of a ton of little setpieces and dialogue that tell you about how the game works. You don't have to interact with ANY of it. You don't have to do four mini dungeons to learn how to use the Kokiri Sword, Deku Shield, Deku Sticks, or Deku Nuts to be allowed to go into the Deku Tree.
>>739989697>the tutorialsI forgot that Zelda 1 forced you through a tutorial, AND made you read the manual, at gunpoint.
>>739966825Ah yes, FSA and Triforce Heroes, the most soulful Zelda games.
Reminder that the reason BotW even exists in the first place was because Skyrim sold well enough in Japan that it caught Nintendo's attention. Everyone claims other games were chasing trends that BotW set when the reality was BotW was really just a third person Skyrim wannabe.Todd Howard is the root of all evil
>>739989979Zelda 1 doesn't have a single tutorial at all. Isn't BOTW supposed to be a return to that?
>>739990112the kokiri forest stuff with getting the sword and shield IS the tutorial, retard. what the fuck are you talking about. you still need to watch the opening cutscene, talk to saria, get the sword and shield, talk to mido. you cannot skip this. if you're trying to argue "oh well i don't need to talk to every kokiri i can just move on quickly" then that's just a retarded argument because the same applies to botw. you don't have to explore anything, you can just go to all four shrines and then leave>>739990118>completely misinterprets the argumentkek
>>739990323All of what you mentioned in Ocarina takes less than ten minutes.
Zelda is for US not NORMIES NOOOO
>>739990379ok? still not skippable, which is what the argument is about
>>739990185Let's not forget how you also have to do all the main plot shit in each region to get into their respective dungeon. You can't even enter them incidentally the way you could stumble into dungeons intended for later in Zelda 1 (there's no plot checklisting for them at ALL). You can physically reach their models, but they're either blocked off with invisible wall barriers, or have no collision whatsoever (meaning you phase through the model).
>>739990180I think your flippant post touches somewhat on the real answer to the question asked earlier. BOTW's effect on vidya as a whole was from combining a level of environmental interactivity from TES with the structure of Ubisoft towerslop, making it a synthesis of the big open world titles that happened to also mesh nicely with Aonuma's vision of making his inability to kill an Octorok more reasonable. I'd tentatively consider it the end-point of "open world action adventure".
>>739990323>completely misinterprets the argumentThe argument is that BOTW fails to be a consistent experience because it flaunts everything as being skippable, except the tutorial. And they go out of their way to remove ANY method of skipping it.>>739990379>>739990112Take this guy's OOT example. Despite OOT being supposedly more linear, you can at least find ways to easily bust out of the forest. Unintentional as they may be, at least it's something. In BOTW they straight up hardlock you into the tutorial, where you're not even allowed to sequence break or glitch out, or else the game devs throw a hissy fit and put up a billion invisible death barriers everywhere. No fun allowed. To put it another way, BOTW is fake freedom. It pretends to give you freedom, but it's still highly curated and controlled to a restricting extent. >>739990472This is a good point. The Divine beasts don't even exist on the map. Their models are just polygons without any collision.
>>739990429Ten minutes pales in comparison to an hour or so, never mind all the cutscenes riddled in-between. You literally can get the sword a minute into talking to Saria.
>>739990542no, the argument is that in world tutorials are pretty much never skippable. and you proceeded to name a game that doesn't even have a tutorial at all (because it's from 1986) as some sort of gotcha. so
>>739990569>goalposts moved, completely abandons previous pointthat's what i thought. enjoy your night
Zelda is hot and I would like to have sex with her for the purpose of procreation.
>>739990607If in world tutorials are never skippable, then why have them at all? Fuck the idiots who need to have their hands held.Zelda 1 did just fine without it, and a myriad of games have done it as well. You know, I recall Metroid being good with this too. The most you got, in terms of a tutorial, was usually just a 5 second item description. Otherwise the game let you loose in the world.I know what you're thinking, you're probably gonna bring up Ceres Station, From Super Metroid, and claim that this is a tutorial. Again that's something they added to Super Metroid, and I could easily go back to NEStroid and, once again, there's no tutorial. And that's how it should've stayed.
>>739990654I'm a different anon, the 'tutorial' for Ocarina is a non-issue. You don't have to learn how to flip or jump or Z-target, you jump in, get the sword, get the money for the shield, go to Mido, talk to the Deku Tree, get in the tree and there you go, all of this in less than ten minutes. Ocarina does not waste your time like BotW does with an overtly long tutorial that you can't break away from.
>>739966707I don't get why so many people in the thread are upset. Open world Zelda is so close to normal Zelda you can practically taste it. Once they perfect it, it will be better in every way.All these games really need is: more npc interaction, properly big dungeons to properly anchor progression and a small revamp on the inventory system (the constant pauses to combat being the optimal way to play is aids). Dungeons you might not conquer immediately and have to come back to, especially if they're early on (or just have a ton of "secrets" for you to do inside). The game would shine with such a wonderful dichotomy, no different than how so many people loved the master sword trials after BOTW. The open world already does the exploration (and could do npc quest interactions) just fine. And if you pay even the slightest attention, already contains 'meta" dungeons the first time you explore through it (the most obvious path to Zora's Domain, getting to Akala Tower, the Cubes). What's really needed is specifically more conditioned fights (like how some of the shrines do) and larger puzzles/mazes. It's even the perfect opportunity for "named" style loot. Something like it's own map that you portal to, like a "nightmare realm" castle that you keep interacting with throughout the game.
>>739990891I don't want open world because it leads to lazy game design. BOTW and TOTK are just adding more and more crap for the sake of the world being bigger. There's no substance behind it. NO, you cannot justify 1000+ korok seeds and 200+ shrines across the games.
>>739990891traditional zelda games are fun because there's a real sense of progression, plot and otherwise. and there are more dungeons than just four. AND it already sucks having to wait 6+ years between entries, but now we gotta wait 6+ years for an open world that's the exact same. i liked botw and totk a lot but i just want a normal zelda game
>>739990891>Open world Zelda is so close to normal Zelda you can practically taste it. Once they perfect it, it will be better in every way. Because TotK showed that Aonuma and Fujibayashi have absolutely no interest in that whatsoever. Rather than seeing BotW as a skeleton to add more meat to, they just threw more bones onto it.
>>739980979Stupid nigger alert
>>739990970>>739991010>>739991046That's my point with the dungeons though. You don't need to add as much superfluous stuff to the open world then. Collectables have more natural and congregated places to go if you have larger dungeons to get lost in. The open world's design purpose post initial exploration is then shifted towards supplementing the extended gauntlets and mazes. I really mean ones that take HOURS to truly explore. Getting the story mode objective out of the way is the easy part. Whole hidden areas and "biome" changes from quests you get from the outside world.
>>739991212>You don't need to add as much superfluous stuff to the open world thenthen why have it to begin with. there was already a fine sense of exploration in the older games without it
>>739991212>Collectables have more natural and congregated places to go if you have larger dungeons to get lost inbut they don't understand the concept of a good dungeon. The divine beasts were pathetic, because they all focused on a lame gimmick of moving parts of the beast. No combat, no getting lost in a labyrinth, no finding a new item or weapon to toy with. And of course they're made of magic no-climbing metal, so the game's central mechanic of being able to go anywhere just gets thrown in the garbage.
>>739991347totk's dungeons are pretty good, just really short. i like the open, freeform style of them. divine beasts felt pretty restrictive despite technically being nonlinear
>>739991287Because the exploration of those games was much more forced and linear. There were always those 2 design philosophies within Zelda if you look. The "open" areas which had much more experimentation and then the dungeons, which were areas which embraced very specific mechanics.People are just rightfully unhappy about missing the second half. Which is why the sky temples in TOTK had such great marketing. Everyone thought the on rails sections would just be constrained by the lack of ability to outright fly.
>>739991412TOTK's dungeons are just as bad, and just as linear. Again they take extreme issue with you trying to do them without having a wacky NPC sidekick glued to you.
>>739990891Less is more. 12 hours of solid gameplay is better than 100 hours of open world wandering. The odd open world game every now and then isn't a bad thing but they've become too common in the industry and I'd rather zelda be scale back to a map no bigger than 1/3 the size of BotW and have 8 dungeon, more traditional progression items instead of rune items, no weapon durability and more enemy variety.
>>739991347>>739991412It really needs to be something like: there are 5 dungeons, with you getting the "main one" unlocked in the tutorial, as is the botw ethos. But the "main" dungeon is a giant other realm style "nightmare" castle which can change map configurations and present specific restrictive conditions on demand (like dampness or the low gravity from totk). The dungeons themselves barely even help with the main story, they mostly hold "loot" that give "powers" or consumables which can help "maintain" "legendary" items (i.e. not break) you unlock.Getting in and out of these areas should be time consuming in and of itself, to give the feel of expedition planning. You also lose the practically infinite inventory and now need to decide what to take and what to keep in storage (which is something open world Zelda should add imo).
>>739990542>Despite OOT being supposedly more linear, you can at least find ways to easily bust out of the forestI would not personally call them "easy": https://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/oot/majorsb/forest-escapeWithout precise setups, all you can do to "sequence break" at the start (avoiding the bulk of the "HEY LISTEN" tutorial messages in Deku) is run around the Lost Woods and get a couple of business scrub upgrades. The only reason it's possible to glitch out of the forest, while in BOTW you are forced to remain in bounds, is the 18-year gap in developer experience and technology between both games. In 1998 3D game development was in its infancy and the concept of greasy nerds workshopping every possible manipulation of a game engine in an IRC to get faster completion times had not yet been established.For the sake of clarifying just how linear OOT is by design, here is the item progression you cannot diverge from without relying on those IRC nerds:>Kokiri Sword / Deku Shield>Kokiri's Emerald>Fairy Ocarina>Zelda's Lullaby>Saria's Song>Goron's Bracelet>Bombs (Dodongo's Cavern)(Goron's Ruby can be obtained here)>Silver Scale>Empty Bottle>Boomerang (Jabu)>Zora's Sapphire(Goron's Ruby can be delayed to here)>Song of Time>Master Sword / Light Medallion>HookshotHere the game opens up (Forest/Fire/Ice/Well/GTG are all accessible), but (without another precise setup) Water is locked behind>Iron Boots (Ice Cavern)and Well is locked behind>Song of Stormsand Shadow is locked behind>Magic>Din's Fire>Nocturne of Shadow>Longshot (Water Temple)and Spirit is locked behind>Forest Medallion>Requiem of Spirit>Silver Gauntletsand of course all six medallions plus Megaton Hammer/Mirror Shield/Bombchus/Golden Gauntlets (for temple bosses and trials) and Light Arrows are needed to get into and through Ganon's Castle
>>739991412ACfag and his mental condition over NPCs aside I feel like the TOTK dungeons are given too much of a pass on their structure.If TP laying out most of its dungeons in that T shape "explore branch, come back to entrance, repeat" was bad, then TOTK laying out all of its dungeons as a set of individual puzzles to solve in any order, all locking the boss door, is bad.
>>739991579I think that durability is frustrating only because you can't "save" your weapons. No taking it to a blacksmith after it gets critical, etc. Along with the fact that it can be hard to get specific weapons, even at a 100% completion post game state, which is just unacceptable. There's a good score system in there, gradually grinding down your capabilities the longer you spend away from civilization.
man i stopped playing totk halfway through like 2 years ago and now i don't fucking remember anythingAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>739991828>The only reason it's possible to glitch out of the forest, while in BOTW you are forced to remain in bounds, is the 18-year gap in developer experience and technology between both games. In 1998 3D game development was in its infancy and the concept of greasy nerds workshopping every possible manipulation of a game engine in an IRC to get faster completion times had not yet been established.So they purposely made something worse because they didn;'t know how to further restrict the player yet. and that's supposed to be a good thing?
>>739991913My preferred solution would be that weapons can be repaired, but have a chance on every hit to break instantly, which retains the idea of continuing to pick up new weapons throughout the game but also means you don't have to micromanage rare weapon HP. But I imagine most people would hate the break mechanic for its randomness. (It's counter-intuitive, but maybe you could also replenish shield HP by successfully parrying?)>>739991981I never bought TOTK and I've so far managed to avoid any spoilers at all other than "Ganondorf is there" and "you can make gizmos", which I'm pretty happy about. Now that I have admitted this I will close the tab before I am viciously spoiled.
>>739987242You don't have to stealth it, skill issue.
>>739992039Or maybe if you could collect the broken pieces? Saving specific "traits" of weapons, so you need to hunt down a few pieces to "craft" something specific, keeping you on the look out for less valuable weaponry.
>>739966707Thank god
>>739991913What is durability meant to accomplish? It forces you to switch weapons. But why do they want to force you to switch weapons? Why can't they find some other way to incentivize you to switch it up? Say, give enemies more pronounced weaknesses to different weapon types, elements, and such, for a start? Basically, durability looks like a band aid fix for developers thinking players don't want to switch their weapons "often enough" without trying to make the prospect of switching your weapons actually appealing. The fact that even you focus on getting and keeping equipment rather than on replacing it with equivalent or better stuff is exactly why it rubs me the wrong way.
>Pirated totk 2 weeks before it launched>Still felt scammed
funny how "real Zelda" fags' opinions always perfectly mirror Arin Hanson's
>>739991841>ACfag and his mental condition over NPCs asideI never want to hear anyone complain about my hate of NPCS, after the disaster that was Metroid Prime 4.
>>739992340maybe because he is right
god damn no wonder botw triggers faggots so hard
>>739966707How come only half of the people that played OOT bothered with MM?
>>739992285I think it's less that they want you to switch weapons and more that they want you to constantly be scouring the game world. Same tactic as making arrows "expensive". Scavenging for basic supplies commands a very different level of attention compared to collecting more apples or rupees. Especially if you limit the inventory and force interesting inventory choices (which they even sometimes succeeded at)
>I AM.... LE TRIGGERED!
>>739992360I don't think Prime 4's NPCs being written like that was an inevitability born of them being NPCs. Your implications that writing must be shit absolve the actual writers of their responsibility for producing shit writing.
>>739992431That's an arrow bokoblin, isn't it? I have no idea why those retards just give up when you get close to them.
>>739992381yeah okay
>>739966825being a hipster stopped being cool in 2014
>>739992567Being a cattlebot was never cool
>>739992454NPCs in video games can very quickly become mary sues, IE the whole game will revolve around involving them as much as possible. Hence why I hated the divine beasts and sage temples in nu-Zelda. Link can't just explore and solve them by himself, he has to have some npc help him. He magically can't explore or get near any of the dungeons because of wacky contrivances (like how Vah Medoh exists in another dimension and can't be reached, even if you glitch your way up there). It spits on the idea of approaching the game world in any way you want, which was the selling point.It gives me painful flashbacks to that stupid monkey in LTTP that requires 110 rupees just to open a dungeon, though the only tender mercy is that the game doesn't hype him up as some super important NPC that needs to follow you through the whole damn dungeon.
>>739966770>didn't sell wellthe 3ds under performed and 2d zelda has never been a gangbusters selling title. getting 4 million was ok.
>>739992430But that comes down to the same issue. If they wanted the players to scour the world more, they could have hidden new non-disposable weapons throughout it. Making the weapons break feels like they approached it from the angle of an arbitrary quota for how often, per X minutes of gameplay, a player should be urged to explore and find something "useful".I agree that BotW was at its best when it limited you the most and thus demanded actual decisions of you, but I also don't think the way it shaped those decisions in the first place is a requirement to recapturing that.
>>739992609I'm surprised you didn't mention the Zonai, the biggest Mary Sues across the Wild games. They pull some absolutely insane WE WUZery with them just to justify reusing BotW's Hyrule.
>>739992609You didn't acknowledge my point at all. You don't only object to NPCs in games where "freedom" is the point. You think NPC = BAD. I am telling you that makes it nobody's fault that an NPC is poorly written, which is obviously wrong.
>>739977461and most of those have literally nothing in them. which annoys me because i was so excited to explore before it dawned on me that the best thing you're getting from exploring is a piece of armor, with the other 2 pieces scattered all across the world, and the full set 99% of the time has essentially no use at all.
>>739992717Yeah, the zonai definitely were pretty bad. Their hilarious retconning of everthing just made it too confusing.>>739992735>You think NPC = BAD. I am telling you that makes it nobody's fault that an NPC is poorly written, which is obviously wrong.To me, the baseline of all NPCs is that they're, at best, unnecessary, and at worst, obnoxious. Unless they're enemies, then they serve a purpose as fun obstacles to overcome. But when playing modern Zelda, not just BOTW and TOTK, but the several games that came prior, were filled with NPCs whose job was to just spew one liners or be otherwise irrelevant.To put it another way, if an NPC wants to justify its existence, then it needs to actually make the game better, in a measurable fashion. If they act as a barrier to stop me from having fun, or if they're just there to spew lore, then it's boring.
>>739992970>To me, the baseline of all NPCs is that they're, at best, unnecessary, and at worst, obnoxious.And that baseline is wrong, because writing on its own is capable of being good and enjoyable, and thus writing in a video game is capable of being good and enjoyable.An NPC can improve the game by delivering good and enjoyable lines. You believe such lines do not exist as a matter of course, and this is wrong. I believe such lines are uncommon because most writers are hacks, especially when their works get translated by even bigger hacks.
>>739992692Hiding non disposables just encourages looking things up with a guide and rushing to them immediately. And they "barely' went off those tracks with TOTK consumables and look how that went. All it did was turn the gameplay into a spam of the best combinations. It barely even feels like the same genre.
>>739992524i would eline.
>>739993070>And that baseline is wrong, because writing on its own is capable of being good and enjoyable, and thus writing in a video game is capable of being good and enjoyable. An NPC can improve the game by delivering good and enjoyable linesAnd that happens when the writers know what they're doing, and they understand brevity. And like you said, this is so uncommon that it's essentially the unicorn of modern gaming. In an industry of Mixtapes and Gone Homes and God of Wars, "good writing" is a diamond in the rough.
>>739993118I'm sorry, your open world game is broken if players have a guide open and can make a beeline for the exact gear they want? That just sounds like how a good open world goes. Look at Morrowind.
>>739993168"Brevity" to the point of not having dialogue is just a writer dodging the fact that they can't write good dialogue. I prefer a milquetoast attempt to no attempt whatsoever, even if I prefer either of those to whatever Mixgape is trying to be.
>>739993220Dialogue should be scarce in a game. If you have to have it, then it needs to be used sparingly. Otherwise you end up being bored to death as the game unloads textboxes in your faces at every opportunity.
>>739993178If the game is focusing on "survival" and scavenging elements it would absolutely undermine the game. Why make people cook food more than once? It should just be about discovering the best recipe.
>>739993317No. That is once again absolving writers of being unable to do their fucking job and make engaging writing.
>>739972935>Genshin Impact-ikeBOTW literally did it first
>>739966707I really wish there were a way to adjust game sales based on some kind of inflation metricThere are a gorillion more gamers and people who own game consoles now than in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and even 10s that I don't think sales numbers from those times are comparableBut it also means shit like pokemon doing as well as it did with red/blue was truly astronomicalI still believe BotW was a huge hit though, but adjusted for "inflation" it's probably around OoT levels
>>739993373at this point I don't think they're capable of writing good stories anymore. I don't want to absolve them of their duty to write a good story, but to be honest, it's like asking a monkey to write shakespeare. Tears of the Kingdom was a perfect example of this. Millions of dollars of development, 6 years dev time, and BOTW as a base to build off of, and what did the story give us?>Ganon is back, in dorf form>he turns into le evil mindless dragon>but first he masquerades as obvious evil bad guy>everyone falls for it>every single sage has to repeat the exact same story about the imprisoning war>zelda doesn't use any of her knowledge about the future to change fate, she just becomes a gay flying dragon >also, link sees the memories of zelda becoming a dragon, but doesn't tell anyone about it because...??? (really would've helped with fake zelda, hmmmm)>also, the shiekah tech all disappeared because their job was done, but ganondorf is still around, so that was a bad idea. also not all of it disappeared for some reason????Without a single hint of exaggeration, the plot of Zelda 1 was more engaging.
>>739993586I am disappointed with TOTK's story too. I will continue to ask the bare minimum of the people who are already hired and paid for rather than throwing my hands up and going on to cope about how story is inherently worthless anyway.
>>739985637If you have to ask then you weren't conscious in the 00s. The pre-release reception to both games alone explains it all. Wind Waker was met with controversy and derision over its art direction upon reveal. Meanwhile, Twilight Princess?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE2Dc1sx71UE3, across its cumulative history, arguably peaked right here. It was that insane of a response.
>>739967006It's to enable the kids of today to do, what we were still able to experience outside.Kids can't even play outside anymore, because everything is overrun with drug addicts and "diversity".
>>739966707Fuck.
>>739993317Nintendo games are barely playable borefests because their dialogues are somehow more sparse and worse than even the most might numbing AAA games. Which is why you see BotW and Odyssey going more cinematic
>>739974690>if the choice is between getting another Twilight PrincessYes, I would choose to get another of the best Zelda game.
>>739993647I think we should just go back to not needing professional writers in the first place. When a dev just makes an excuse story to shove into the game, and doesn't spend extra money on it, then I can forgive it even if it's boring or milquetoast. You won't find me hating on Cave Story for the somewhat bland plot. I also can't be asked to hate the story in a Mario game. It's clear they didn't care about it. Even Rosalina's storybook (from galaxy) felt like an afterthought, not being forced on me. I can guarantee that Mario spends much less on storywriters than Zelda does.>>739993750If a game is a bore fest, then there's a very low chance that the story will save it. A strong foundation can't be substituted.
>>739993586idk why people keep shitting on ToTK story when it's literally THE MOST story Zelda ever did in the first place. Other one being Majora's Mask. When the bar is rock bottom, having ANYTHING is above it.
>>739993903Majora's Mask did in 6 months what TOTK couldn't accomplish in 6 years. >completely new world>new villains>new antagonist, not just a ganon rehash>new gameplay mechanicsIt took tons of risks. Not just in the game, but the story as well.
>>739993550it’s called “software attach rate” or “tie-in” search for sales using those metrics to compare
>>739990891honestly once they add open world survival crafting the franchise is kill. that's it. it's over. seen this cycle with many other franchises. we're not ever getting another zelda game, at least not one from nintendo.
>>739993751Based.
>>739993829I agree that professional writers in a gaming company are bunk, but not because the ideal game has no story, no dialogue, and no effort put into anything other than the raw gameplay. It's more because writing was almost universally better off when it was the job of some random guy on the team who had a cool idea for why the aliens were invading and thus I think it's insane to spend more rather than less money on writers. Pull from the people who already care enough about the game to work on it.
>>739993972well except nobody fucking liked it and people kept clamoring for more ganondorf aura farming. I say the guy should have been left dead in Ocarina, but it is the most Aura he had since then, with TP falling completely flat. So it is an actual improvement at least. And unlike the slew of shit ocarina-likes, totk actually reinvents gameplay, so there's another circumstance making the shit story land better.
>>739994190>well except nobody fucking liked it
>>739994190>nobody liked Majora!Revisionist history>inb4 “lower sales is proof”
>>739993903You're trying way too hard. Even the biggest (legit) fanboys admit the story in TotK is shit-caked asscheeks.
>>739967006Because most games are ruthlessly padded to justify the 60-80$ pricetag instead of just giving up and only giving you the good parts of the game for 20$ or less.Open world allows people to ignore 90% of the useless fluff.BotW for instance has even less content than Skyward Sword did, but unlike Skyward Sword it didn't force you to go through copypasted filler on rails.Most people do not have the patience or time to sit through pointless filler, their time is actually valuable and they play enough games and engage in enough activities that do not value their time or enjoyment already.
>>739994621That isn't a point in BOTW's favor, though. You still have to pay for the whole game. You can't just pay 20 bucks to avoid 90% of the filler.
>>739976917>Playing all of them that came after always disappointed me a bit that it just didn't feel the sameWhat about OoT isn't closer to LoZ and LttP than BotW is?
>>739966707now post TotK numbers
>>739991828>here is the item progression you cannot diverge fromPic related is the actual full progression map in all of its glorious detail
>>739966707I'm a wall street woman. Nintendo should produce OoT2, MM2 and Wind Waker 2 instead BotW.
>>739993678The trailers still look so much better than the actual game we got it's insane.
>>739966707Linear isn't coming back, not because the open world games outsold them, but because every time Aonuma opens his mouth, he starts talking about how depressing having structure is and how anyone who doesn't prefer sandboxes are fools.
>>739966707Where are the sales for Tears of the Kingdom?
>>739980771>WebmWhat the hell is that? The Legend of SAAR and the Fountain of Poop?
>>739995279>>739996152Somewhere around 23 million
>>739996751>Somewhere around 23 millionIt truly is over for linear Zelda. Fuck.
>>739996872I don't care about this is the new formula I just hope we can have a cute Zelda next time
>>739984060As someone who grew up with LA and ALTTP but never had a deep love for the series and grew bored of it by WW/TP. I grew to hate Nintendo for completely transforming their series from NES hard and obtuse, to toddler design. With heavy railroading and handholding constantly. I want to explore, search for secrets and figure things out on my own without being spoonfed and interrupted.Everyone still dickrides OoT but for me it's a very problematic game. The intro alone disgusts and infuriates me, it represents everything I hate in Japanese games.When they say BOTW is inspired by Zelda 1's sense of immediate and guideless freedom it's not 1:1 and there are betrayals to the core concept here and there (plateau is amazing as an invisible tutorial but it's still one, can't reach the beasts without doing quests first, stealth segment) but for the most part I see what they mean and it's done quite boldly and refreshingly.This core concept of "here's the world, the endgame is available right away, but the main game is one big overarching puzzle, just figure out how to beat Ganon your own way and everything else is optional and minimalistic by design" is amazing and ideal to me. It's incredibly elegant. "Figure out the world" is what all adventure open worlds should strive to be. The non-linearity of creating your own journey, from your own curiosity. There are 4 major side quests but they are still side quests. There's no main quest, just one objective. The quest is your own journey. It trusts you the player to direct yourself. Coming from Nintendo it's genuinely surprising and it's the one impulse that elevates open world design in my eyes.The "go/climb anywhere" and map aspects are superbly crafted for WiiU hardware.The sad, sinister side of open world is when it turns into formulaic, collectathon, sub-objeactive/mini-quests, 1/150 checklist and segmented Points Of Interests, short dopamine loops design and BOTW is just as guilty of it as Ubishit etc.
>>739984060You can be reductive and say it's Nintendo ubislop, and to an extent it's true regarding all the collectibles and random check marks you can run around and check offHowever, it really comes into its own with regards to the world building, physics, variety in enemy interactions, relative freedom in puzzle solving, and so forth that I think really set it above other open world games and gives each player a relatively unique experience that feels unique and not scripted
>>739994730The average person's consoomer brain ignores that, they just look at the potential playtime and scope to determine value even if they won't experience 90% of it.A lot of people will drop it before even getting through half of the real content it does have, only the mentally ill or deficient will genuinely go through more than half of the game's padding and a combination of both is needed to go for 100% completion even if you ignore the 900 Korok seeds.>>739996872This was really only due to size of the current audience and the fact that the games got massive amounts of additional marketing due to concurrent PC emulation.>>739998359>relatively unique experience that feels unique and not scriptedBut the game is heavily scripted and on rails in its unique content, like the Gerudo village infiltration that will only happen in one specific way (barring glitches). It is only "hands off" during its filler content that was churned out with significantly less rigor.
>>739998484Sure, the scripted segments are still scripted, and even the puzzles in shrines and whatnot are scripted to an extent too, but the important part is the freedom you have to tackle them and the work they put in to let you try different avenues without much frictionDo you really think some modern 600+ developer ubislop game would trust the player fuck around with physics and very few context sensitive actions to handle a given encounter/puzzle? (if they even have puzzles, no idea)
>>739998206Out of tldr space, but what I want to say is my wish would be for this type of open world adventure to keep the sense of scale and freedom but refine the content. I'm probably in the minority but I don't find the physics interactions particularly interesting and them being the focus in TOTK doesn't appeal to me. They're nice for emergent gameplay but they shouldn't overtake the design. The core should remain adventure. Obstacles, mystery, problem solving done in archetypical ways rather than gimmicky.What I loved from BOTW was stuff like being stranded on an island, finding the huge labyrinths and finding ways to navigate them, early game without enough tools to deal with environmental obstacles like rain messing with climbing or feeling like cold was dangerous and trying to be resourceful.Obviously I'd much prefer if the shrines were less numerous but were more unique visually and content and fleshed out dungeons.Nothing kills adventure, curiosity and discovery more than formulaic design. When you realize something is reused, copy pasted, systemized. I see a stable I know there's a shrine nearby because it doubles as fast travel point and it's purely utilitarian design. I see the designer's logic, the workaround to solve another problem. That's sadly the number one thing they need to fix but I doubt they ever will. Elden Ring same issue.I also want them to be hidden so searching for them and discovering them is more meaningful. Half the shrines are just sitting in plain sight. Boring. Hiding them is easy design that strongly elevates them. Give me a hand-drawn treasure map etc.Some of my favorite stuff in BOTW is hunting for hidden shrines, like those gated behind Kass riddles. Even if the shrine itself is predictable and underwhelming.Wish it had more interesting enemies and variety, more gimmick puzzle-type enemies, etc.But I love item durability (inventory limitation, increase gated behind exploring/puzzling) in BOTW. It's meaningful.
>>739966707How'd Echoes of Wisdom do? I really enjoyed it.
>>739998579I don't think they put in much work to giving you freedom and reducing friction, so much as they just didn't put in as much work to stop you.Even the scripted segments will often just use triggers to throw you out, will have invisible walls to keep you from doing things or objects will not have collision or load in properly.I don't think modern Ubislop would necessarily have the complexity to let people break the game's boundaries intentionally, but BotW letting you "break" things is mostly due to scope creep, since the areas of the game that received more attention don't let you break things.There's a difference between a game giving you freedom and not giving a fuck, since a game needs to put actual work into maintaining the illusion of freedom consistently.
>>739998797Also LASTLY a hateful rant the number ONE thing I despise about BOTW is the thing that's just typical of JRPG design. It's the dialogues boxes and overall interaction QoL. Holy shit Nintendo kill yourselves. The fact that I constantly see people complain about ubishit design or weapon durability but no one ever brings this up is mind boggling. It's still just as infuriatingly toddler friendly as OoT intro.I'm not a child. Why do you make me spam the confirm button any time there's a dialogue, why is there a delay. I can speed read. You don't need to repeat the same info 5 times, you don't need 5 different boxes to say one thing with the importing thing outlined in colors. You cannot immediately opt out of dialogue if you ever make the mistake of re-entering the same dialogue loop.And it extends to so many other things like the cooking and the fairy gear upgrades and entering shrines, same bullshit, why do I need to repeat the same mini-cutscenes and looping dialogues for interactions I have to repeat hundreds of times. They knew it was retarded because they included a skip option for shrines and cooking but to enter a shrine you have to spam skip THREE fucking times. FUCK. Why is this here just remove those entirely or make them optional after the first few times. Mind boggling design stupidity.
>>739966707>twilight princess was 20 years ago
>>73997360730% as of 2022, it's more or less 22% now, so on ocarina of time numbers.
>>739974087i imagine it's how adam felt when eve got him kicked out of the garden of eden.
>>739999151yeah but did you see the white horse on safula hill? i hear that on safula hill, you can find a white horse. thing is, when i checked safula hill for the white horse, i actually didn't find a white horse on safula hill.
>>739999368It was a magical era.
>>739993751That game was vomit from start to finish.
>>740000768But enough about Barf of the Wild.
>>739994474that's my issue. Why mouthbreathing retards zelda fanboys who ate genuine shit for every game in the series suddenly woke up and started asking for better story? I feel both validated as Zelda hater but also Botw/Totk were the first good games in the series
>>739966825except botw is pvre sovl
>>739966707Outdated numbers, botw is at 35mill since 2025
>>740001730Actually it was 666 million
if nintendo ripped off outer wilds instead of assassin's creed for their next title there'd be non stop 10/10s
>>739967465>>739973668corn syrup golem fatposting for israel as usual
>>740001547Pure slopsoul
>>739981590>i loved WIND WAKER and i wish it got a sequelbro...your DS?
What are the best zelda games and where can I emulate them?I'm mostly interested in older titles due the importance of those games I guess.
>>740004948Ocarina is the best one. Play it through a source port.
>>739967824>>739968623>>739968747GoldenEye is irrelevant in the grand scheme of the FPS genre
>>740004948Oracles
>>739971392>and TotK is already showing that he doesn't really have any ideas on how to properly expand the idea.I think Echoes of Wisdom is what shows it personally. I'm playing it for the first time and he's trying to apply the same gameplay to the 2D Zeldas but has no idea how to make it interesting.>Can go anywhere outside of Hebra and Eldin right out of the gate but because you can go anywhere it makes the world significantly less special.>Slaps the blue bismuth everywhere because they don't know where you're gonna go to get upgrades though it's not even remotely as egregious as Koroks because the map is smaller.>Implements a crafting system for smoothies but because beds let you heal it's completely pointless.>Floods you with Echoes but only like 10 are even worth using because he thinks you're gonna use the 50+ to do fights or solve puzzles instead of using the best ones you've figured out.>Has a bunch of puzzles in the overworld yet all can be solved with stuff you got in the tutorial. >Outside of stuff like the first spider you find, the bomb fish, the mole, and the fire slime pretty much every Echo you find is pointless for actual puzzles or exploration.>Game is clearly designed around beds being the focal point of climbing so if you don't use them it gets significantly worse to do anything and some Heart Pieces become outright impossible to obtain even with Link form.>The fact you can climb on top of trees completely kills the fun of the world because you constantly feel like you're breaking the game and cheesing it instead of exploring naturally.>Still doesn't have a grid system so you basically have to filter to "Last used" and favorite the 15ish Echoes you will ever use.I would love to see Subrosia in an actual BotW game or brand new worlds, but this formula needs to stay solely to very specific game releases and only those releases while the classic formula stays everywhere else because it has no staying power and breaks apart constantly.
>>739967161item rental system simply fucked up half the fun of dungeons (the part where you wander around looking for the item while internalizing the puzzles you can't do yet)
>>739996751And people think there won't be a BotW3.>B-but he said23 million isn't anything to scoff at. You're getting BotW3.
Zelda 1 was not linear Majora's Mask is the best Zelda
>>740008058Eventually people will get tired of the stale formula
>>739966707This ass sold 60 million copies
>>740004948Handheld? Link's Awakening.As an oldfag, I'd recommend you to play the original, but it's probably objectively better to play the remake.
>>740008604Depends. If you have a Switch 2 and can deal with the Funko Pop look it's fine. We also now have Link's Awakening HD if he wants the original but with more features since you don't have to use the multi-room view.
Hmm, 13M in 2 years, or 27M in 7. Hard choice.
I wouldn't play a BoTW 3even when I 100% ToTK the feeling I got out of it was mostly "Really wish I didn't play BoTW so I could've experienced this overworld for the first time with the depths and mechanics ToTK hadif I saw them trying to milk a 3rd game out of that I'd just not play.
These massive open world games are causing HUGE droughts in game releases for all 3 consoles, and all that's doing is making people lose interest in console gaming altogether.Notice how SS and LA's switch ports both sold just as much as the original? People just bought shit on the switch, but now there's nothing to buy.
>>739966707Good, if Nintendo were smart they'd push the formula onto Astral Chain, and give it access to the resources and polish that Zelda has had a history of.
>>740009351I'm kinda in the same boat. Like, it's worth nothing that I really enjoyed both BoTW and ToTK, but by the time I got to the end of ToTK I couldn't help but think "they have really taken this design about as far as they possibly can."
They just need to make Zelda as hot and slutty as possible
I'm convinced that, if Nintendo held off Sticker Star until the Switch's launch, Nintendofags would also celebrate its sales and gleefully gravedance on classic Mario RPGs' grave while larping that it was a return to form that they've always wanted all along.
>>739966707Nostalgiafaggots eternally btfoI hope the Ocarina of Time remake is true and ends up being open world. It will literally end up begin better than the original kek
>>740011201You do know that BotW is old enough to cynically dismiss enjoyment of it as nostalgia too now, right
>>740009941>These massive open world games are causing HUGE droughts in game releases for all 3 consolesA Zelda game releases every console generation. This time we got two mainline game (BotW & TotK) plus quite a few extrasI'm not seeing the drought in question
>>740011289I first played it a few years ago so I don't really care
>>740011307We got BotW and a $70 expansion pack that took 6 years. MKW took 8 years. There's absolutely a huge bottleneck going on.
>counting totk as a new gamepathetic.clearly old nintendo wasted way too much effort putting effort into new stuff when they couldve just copy pasted the whole map.
>brag about being cheaply brought in to outnumber and displace the existing populationHoly fuck, BotWfags are the Indians of Nintendo fans
>>739966707What the hell? Why did MM perform so badly compared to the OoT?
>>740012460why wouldnt itoot was a big deal
