https://sea.ign.com/subnautica-3/243437/subnautica-2-dev-addresses-misunderstanding-around-decision-not-to-let-players-kill-predators>“People have a little bit of a misunderstanding of why we made some of those decisions. A lot of the negative feedback [comes from] not letting you kill predators,” >Gallegos continued “That was not some decision made because ‘We're a game about pacifism, or we're a non-violent studio.’ [Our] studio was founded by modders who made Half-Life mods and their first mods were all about shooting aliens. They loved the movie Aliens and they wanted to make an Aliens video game that was legally distinct. That is what Natural Selection 1 and 2 are basically.”>Gallegos said that the studio co-founder Charlie Cleveland was inspired by the movie Aliens in the making of the first Subnautica, where “he was trying to make it a game without guns because he just thought maybe there was a place for a game that didn't add more to the landscape of violent games, which wasn't an indictment on violent games.”>"There is now this idea that we really are leaning into "Subnautica" being a pacifism game, which wasn't our intent. So what was the intent? It was twofold, Gallegos explained.>"One, we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the world, because the message of the game very much is people learning to live in parallel with the world that they're in.”>"Two, the intent had to do with the game design, which was inspired by the likes of "Soma" and "Alien Isolation". Gallegos cited a blog by Soma developer "Frictional Games", in which the studio said it had found that when it gave players the means to fight things, no matter how miserable the developers made the combat experience, players would always deem it better to master the “crappy” combat than deal with constant threat and tension."
>>740063216cont'd>Gallegos cited Konami horror masterpiece Silent Hill 2, where players will master the pipe combat despite it being poor “because it's way better to kill every creature in every hallway and then freely run through it than it is to dodge them when they're scary.”>“And so by removing the option to deal with combat, it means that the omnipresent tension and stuff like that gets to be there,” Gallegos went on. “And so that's really where we're trying to lean into it from.”>"Subnautica 2" devs has been open about its plans to add ways for players to mitigate the threat of predators in "Subnautica 2" via future updates. But Gallegos said the developers also plan to add creature flinches so players actually realise when they’re bonking fish on the face with the hammer.>“For us, it's mostly about seeking cool ways for the players to feel smart about it,” Gallegos said. “Some of the stuff we've talked about is like, what if you could build feeders and you could keep creatures so well fed that they don't have any interest in you, which is like something you see in real life when you see people that keep alligators as pets, right? They're like, ‘Oh, alligators are perfectly safe as long as they're not hungry, you know?’”
This is the first game where rampant woke-ism is actively holding back the gameplay. Playing similar non-woke games in the genre like Grounded makes me realize how incredibly fun it is to fight stuff. It only adds to the game.Alien Isolation had combat. It's just mostly put near the end I suppose.
Gun and ball niggers wonned?
Imagine buying this shit.
If they love horror games so much, go make a horror game. Why would they make a fucking sandbox if the inspirations are only coming from horror ? Abiotic factor did a better job with horror and the game becomes dogshit halfway through, but seems like "standards" are not what people should seek from sandboxes.
>>740063227>NOO YOU CAN'T KILL THE MONSTERS>oh but we'll let you feed them so they completely ignore you, lolIt's legitimately tiring to see these pacifist freaks defend their dysgenic game about colonizing a new world. Why let players build structures that could harm the habitat of the fish? Why not just open the game with "oh no, you crash landed on a planet, but you can't harm the precious ecosystem so you should take these suicide pills now".
>>740063216tl;dr?please format your posts better, this is annoying af to read
>all this copingbad move, if they have to give explanations, they've already lost
>>740063216>Charlie ClevelandThis entire article is a lie, That mentally ill fagget hated guns and was all for banning and removing guns from Americans, >In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook school shooting, game designer Charlie Cleveland had a goal: he wanted to make a game that wasn’t built around guns and combat.
>>740063496That's... Surprisingly touching. I didn't think americans still cared about kids being shot in school.
>>740063216>>740063227>tell people they're evil for killing predators trying to eat you>get your fanbase to turn on the modders and compare them to the holocaust and colonizer bullshit>radio silence on that bashing>put out a "oh we're just a poor widdew dev team that started doing half life mods bros we're so sorry honest"Nah, fuck you, I'm never buying another game you release for the rest of my life after that horseshit. I hope every one of your devs stubs their big toe so hard it separates the nail from the bed.
>>740063540They don't. It's performative bullshit.
they really just need to make the guy who says stuff like "not having guns is a vote against gun violence" to shut up because it's obvious that these are mainly game design decisions but one guy's gotta be performative
>>740063216>Live in parallel >Almost everything underwater will rustle your jimmyNigga WHAT parallel
Not being able to kill is a good thing for the game. Stunning them temporarily is enough. The backlash stems from the sanctimonious way the devs adressed that. Just explain why instead of going on about how guns are chud coded. Total non issue blown up.
>>740063227he's absolutely right on the game design front if you're going for horror btw, which let's be real, subnautica is part horror game at best you give people satisfying means to temporarily deal with enemies. if you give them means to permanently deal with the big threatening monster that's scary/a pain in the ass they're going to do it.
>>740064246It runs contrary to human desires. Imagine a video that's like1st hour: Run from seamonsters100th hour: Run from seamonsters
>>740064449I think you'll be able to come up with other ways to deal with sea monsters efficiently just without wasting them. and in subnautica the way you kill sea monsters is typically some janky enigneered solution that doesn't feel intentional rather than game progression. It seems obvious that they just underestimated how many people would go to extreme lengths to remove a sea monster from the ocean.
>>740064643So much effort on their part to exclude a normal part of the gameplay. They die, you loot their body and they explode into gibs, fuck yeah, which fade out of existence and another identical enemy spawns in 3 in-game days later, while you use their blubber to upgrade your scuba gear or something. That's a fucking video game experience.
>>740063216>sea.ign.comHuh...
>>740064786It's a sea-exploration game.
TLDR, game lost 70~80% of players already, probably a lot of refund.
>>740064772I mean they explain it and if you've played subnautica you probably understand, leviathans especially are clearly not meant to be killed. it's a timesink, it is awkward to do it, and if you want the game to be scary or have a persistent source of tension then letting the player murder the leviathan means it's not going to be around for long as soon as the player realizes they can.Subnautica isn't really a survival craft 'em up where your goal is to murder the local ecosystem until nothing can contest you. It's an exploration game with horror elements. Their mistake was even making it POSSIBLE to kill leviathans in subnautica 1. I don't think people would be freaking out if they had established that from the start, unkillable big boy enemies are nothing new in scary games. That and that one developer making stupid moralizing statements instead of just calling it a game design choice.
>>740063216>>740063227It undermines immersion when you can't kill a tiny fish, let alone a bigger one, with a hatchet. But can grab it and put it in the insta-cooker 9000 to kill it. In Sub1 if you hit a tiny fish with your sub it would die, because no shit, that's just cause and effect. Especially when Sub2 is trying to make a point that this planet is even more hostile than the last one, it's jarring to make the player uniquely helpless.The first Subnautica was not a combat game, but you could still kill things with a knife. Even massive leviathans, but that was only possible with absurd stasis gun cheese. Just remove the stasis gun and no cheese. You don't need combat to be a focus, it doesn't need to be the dominant playstyle, but to have no ability to shank a fish at all, it makes the entire world feel artificial. Which is even more jarring when you came up with an in-universe explanation for respawning. It's just bad game design to undermine immersion like that when there's a more elegant solution THAT YOU ALREADY DID IN THE FIRST GAME. With this and Below Zero, I think they legitimately don't understand why people liked Subnautica.
>>740063216I love how faggots like this always claim they aren't a pussy and are super hardcore before going on a 7 paragraph explanation about how big a pussy they are and why that's actually hardcore now.
>>740063216They are kinda driving home the point that violent aggressors (dangerous sealife) have the privilege of pushing around weaker things (players) as they will without repercussions. And weaker ones should just "suck it up" and learn to live in parallel with circumstances like a good ghetto slave under cartels.
>>740063216They could have just said that from the start instead of bringing up school shootings and sandy hook and avoid themselves the headache.
i think not being able to kill the big fish like the leviathan is a good thing, because you could do it in the first game (with torpedoes) and it would trivialize the end game during a deep dive.but i think you should be able to kill the small annoying fish because i had one spawning not too far from my base and he was really annoying, always attacking me, biters were a bit less annoying but it's nice being able to kill them when they follow you in a small crevice or something.pic rel was my biggest enemy and i did kill quite a few, LEMME KILL THOSE BASTARDS !!!
>>740063216>we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the world,It's impossible to moderate this behaviour, Humans have and always will want to dominate nature.
>>740065207They said they were working on methods to chase aggressive fish away from bases.
If they really wanted to go hard with the "be nice to the environment even if it's not always nice to you" aesop they could go hard with it and have it start fucking you over in difficult to predict ways if you fuck it over too much.Start overfishing? the local population takes more time to recover and your food source will become scarce if you're not careful.Go out of your way to purge leviathans because they're too scary? Their prey causes a cascading natural disaster now that they're gone, like herbivores eating all the flora or predators becoming more of a nuisance than the leviathan ever was. You can see how that might be out of their scope though.
>>740065274>PDA, open up a diplomatic channel. I will negotiate a treaty of non-aggression.
>>740063216Why must gamers be violate and desire to kill everything?
>>740065274yes, that method is a knife in the belly.
>>740065340If I had to guess I'd say it'll be more like a sonar thing.
>>740063216>>740063227The entire controversy around the game not having guns is the most retarded zoomer shit imaginable. If you literally can't cope with not being able to shoot everything you see fuck off back to Call of Duty.
>>740064248Yeah, give the player too much power and there's no tension. In fact I'd argue in Subnautica 1 the player already had too much power with the drill arm absolutely trivializing the Leviathans.
>>740063227 Annoying fish are just not the same as a xenomorph in proportion.
>game makes a big deal about jail breaking the fabricator>they could save the rep of the game if you could add lethal weapons to the list of craftable items later down the line
>>740063216He literally said the game was about "pacifism", he even told chuds to go play Sons of the Forest if they wanted to kill wildlife.These people need to learn how to shut up.
This entire discourse is proof that Americans are retarded
>>740065784Acting like a finger-waggling fop is more important to developers nowadays.
>>740065910The whole discourse could have been avoided if they just gave a justification in game that went along the lines of>fabricator can only make non lethal things because it was set up for a completely different planet where such things were not neededThere, easy.
They will add lethal weapons. Mark this post. Chuds won
>>740063602>I hope every one of your devs stubs their big toe so hard it separates the nail from the bed.That's something that can happen?
>>740063216game devs? more like politicians
not gonna read all that shitare they gonna add shitty knives again or not? plus patch back roadkill
Can we just take a moment to appreciate that this is the biggest problem people have with the game and not, you know, there's a fucking marvel-quipping black woman commenting everything that happens like in the last game?
>>740065031Let me decide whether to kill something or not. This is an open world survivalist game, I'll do what it takes to survive.
>>740063216all this performative outrage because 1 game out of a million doesn't let you le kill le monstergrow up
>>740066235No you stupid nigger, just like how in real life you can't go out into the woods and punch a bear to death some things should be outside of the scope of your abilities. It's a horror game, player power is a detriment to the game experience
There is no need to add a way to kill fishes outside of cooking. There is a need for a way to permanently remove fishes from claimed base locations. This is almost effectively the same thing in gameplay terms. If the threat of a predator fish must remain, it is as simple as causing it to despawn after being "permanently" chased away from a settlement, and then having its new spawn location be randomly one of several somewhere else nearby, which can be strategically placed by the designer to then be a pain in the ass for other reasons such as valuable resources.
>>740064914There's literally only 10 hours of content
>>740066275I played for like half an hour to get a feel of what the game is like(mainly to see if they actually tried to make it horror like or if they fucked it up like Below Zero) and then I put the game down and will leave it down until it's out of EA.
>>740064248except they didn't do it correctly because now that I have almost zero ways of dealing with a threat and the attacks are basically random I don't even look around anymore when I hear the constant fish howls and threatening noises. There is no point to look or be scared because I can't do anything anyway, it would be like being scared of the weather. I'll just swim into whatever direction that seems further away from the sound without ever looking. Even when I'm attacked, what's the point of turning around and looking at the attacker? I can't do anything anyway. They even know this flaw, which is why it automatically turns the camera around when the leviathan grabs you. It's also almost impossible to know from which direction the threatening sounds are coming from, so whatever they are doing audio wise isn't very good. The bottom line is that Subnautica wasn't scary to me because I wasn't given enough ability to function as a human would in this world so there was no point to be scared. Just treat these fish like NPC pixels that attack you, who cares. You can't do anything anyway.
>>740066273You can't run from a bear, you complete tool.
Too much water, not even pirating
>>740066273yeah but you can struggle and attempt to fight it and give it a bloody nose or at least do something. A real horror game cannot just put invulnerable ghosts into every area of the game and tell you to dodge. That's unfun.
>>740066273>can't punch a bear to death>however heavy mining equipment has proven extremely effective
>>740063253Also even at the beginning, you CAN try and fight the xenomorph (and die), you CAN try and fight a working joe (and possibly die)You don't HAVE TO hide, but it's probably the best option.Subnautica2 could have given you guns but made the monsters so otherworldly strong that there defeating them if just a huge waste of resources for no benefit.
>>740066470Charlie seems pretty sure with himself.
>>740063216You're supposed to surrender and let them swallow you to your inevitable doom as a belly pet of a sea leviathanStop resisting
Ooh, so scawwy.What a fun game.
>>740066470>>740066674Forgot link.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S6bgQnlP1w
>>740063216>It's not because we are faggots>We are faggots>We are faggots>Now let me explain why we are faggots>One, we are faggots>Two, we are faggots>>740063227>For us, it's mostly about seeking faggot ways to being faggots, some of the stuff we've talked about is eating 2 cocks at the same time to keep the faggot so well fed it lets you have fun with the gameWhat did he meme by this
>>740066691I shant subject myself to such a fate before I have successfully swam into the vagina of the sea emperor.
>>740066695Dude, spoiler that shit, I almost peed myself.
>>740066118I've done it, pray it comes out in one go like mine did
>>740066273Not that anon but, Irl You can aboslutely kill a bear. Maybe not by punching it, but the only shield Bears have against humans is the physical aspect, law aspect and the fact most people are a bunch of sissies. Send someone with a full rig/kit, and that bear is found in a few days then turned into a trophy.>b-b-but muh 'survival means not the best gear'True... you can also however build some very nasty shit... unless you think a bear could survive an imporvised dirty bomb strapped to a carcas made only accesible to a bear, hell... fuck even the usual chemistry lesson... there's literal traps and means to make one sharpened piece of spear move so fast it'll pierce the cranium of that fuck.if they really wanted to incentivise players, without taking away the guns, they could have made it so, there are incentives not to kill animals... aka the reason why most people irl don't just send animals to extinction right away, especially the nasty to humans ones> ecosystemgive consequences instead of an ideology. Let people kill animals en masse then instead of telling em "nuh uuh :D, that's not so hecking epic" make it now since no leviathans are left to herd the other shit, now your job gets even messier since the prey of leviathans come out of the normal parameters.But again the devs are a bunch of frauds and you are sub-human with no imagination that just defaults to retarded arguments
>>740063216>That was not some decision made because ‘We're a game about pacifism, or we're a non-violent studio.don't care why, it's a dumb decision
>>740063216>“he just thought maybe there was a place for a game that didn't add more to the landscape of violent games"Why did they add violent monsters that could kill the player to the game then?
>>740063216>misunderstandingbold to assume the fault is ours
>can't kill the fish leeching my sub's energy by ramming or knifing them>shove them into my mouth and eat them alive insteadnice system retards
I just want a Sealab 2020 game.This isnt it.
>>740064248>at best you give people satisfying means to temporarily deal with enemiesat worst you cry to game journos about how many reasons you have for ignoring player feedback
>>740064643>they just underestimated how many people would go to extreme lengths to remove a sea monster from the ocean.and they overestimate their ability to insist that behaviour away with pop culture references from half a century ago
>>740067004None of the fish that attack you can be caught or eaten though.
>>740064914they all had a vidrel realization
>>740065197fucking hell am i tired of 'living in parallel'
Why are right wingers such snowflakes?
>>740065432sonar IRL massacres nearby sealife
>>740067141>fish leeching my sub's energyread nigga read
>>740067240Sounds good (except for the fish lol).
>>740066190>appreciate a loudmouth dev manufacturing a problem that didn't need to existnah
>>740067004In Subnautica 3, eating will be removed due to being problematic.
>>740066273>player power is a detriment to the game experienceso maybe don't treat player power as 'on' or 'off' and grant it gradually / incrementally? like a video game?
>>740064914>people beat a 10 hour game and moved onYup, another tortanic fmconfirmed xd!We fucking won!
>>740066343this seems like a spiteful way to interact with the game, anon. a normal person would just avoid them or use items to send them off.
Well then I guess the devs will have to live in parallel with me not buying their game. Cheers!
>>740066343>There is no point to look or be scared because I can't do anything anyway, it would be like being scared of the weather. I'll just swim into whatever direction that seems further away from the sound without ever looking. Even when I'm attacked, what's the point of turning around and looking at the attacker? I can't do anything anyway.precisely. anyone remotely capable of linking their experiences to the game's code will reach this conclusion.
>>740067378Which is what they're going to do. It's EA you fucking retard. Just don't cap that power to the point that the game becomes a joke like in the first game. No game has mastered the incremental power creep for horror better than Alien Isolation. The flamethrower is the highest tier you should get, being able to scare the leviathans away but not a 100% solution is the highest it should ever get. You should NEVER be able to actually kill a leviathan because the second you can kill them the second they become a joke and all the horror is lost. It's why the last 5 hours of Subnautica 1 became a slog because the game just loses all tension and as such it's fun.
>>740063227>And so by removing the option to deal with combat, it means that the omnipresent tension and stuff like that gets to be there,”No. It means nothing is ever a threat. There is no tension in subnautica 1/Bz/2 because everything of designed to be avoidable by a slow moving player with virtually 0 options. Bz was especially bad for this because you could just point defense zap a very long animation to take 0 damage and just freely travel wherever you want with 0 considerations taken.
>>740067412>a normal person would just avoid them>I just swim whatever direction that seems further away from the sound without even looking
>>740067378Mayhaps, EVEN, make it a progression thing where you get assfucked by everything constantly and as you progress the game, you get better equipment to deal with the assfuckers :o
don't care. get fucked shill. won't even pirate your gay faggotry.
>>740066975they aren't assuming, they are dead certain in their mind that they've done nothing wrong and good journo reviews will mean 2 million sales
I don't want to dodge the same threat over and over, especially in a base building game.Not having proper combat with the leviathans was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the first game, but at least you could bring them down. Are you telling me you can't in the sequel?
>>740067489Alien Isolation is far worse than Subnautica 2>Walk 5 meter>peak-a-boo alien pops up>Walk 5 meter>peak-a-boo alien pops up>Walk 5 meter>peak-a-boo alien pops upThe game is more of a dog training program than a survival game, you got to learn how much tension you can put on the leash before the dog bark. Never needed the flamethrower because by that point I already knew how the game worked.
>>740067314the point is the devs won't add it if they actually adhere to their bullshit stance (they won't, expect subnautica 2 Weapons and Waves update in 6 months and a bunch of retard normalfags praising them for half-assing a system that the game should have been partially designed around from day 1)
>>740066343This, basicallyThere is literally nothing you can do, only "run" away in a straight line while you don't even see the monster, and there is ONE monster you need to run away from, you can just ignore all the rest since they don't do anything, and you can't do anything eitherSo what the fuck is the point? You can't avoid them, you can't hide, you can't fight, you can only go out of aggro range and that's it
>>740063387It'd be funny if, similar to feeding niggers IRL, feeding the predators ingame just makes them multiply until your feeding capabilities are exceeded, then an even larger number of predators attack the player.
>>740067489>It's EA you fucking retardlike spacebase df-9? or Towns? Castle Story? Cube World?at any rate i didn't read the rest of the post because "fuck you, retard"
>>740066273>just like how in real life you can't go out into the woods and punch a bear to deathIf I had a techno-future 3d printer that can produce neurotoxin torpedos. You bet your ass I'd rush my 10 foot tall mecha into the woods and Sarin-Gas some bears.
>>740067705>>Walk 5 meter>>peak-a-boo alien pops up>>Walk 5 meter>>peak-a-boo alien pops up>>Walk 5 meter>>peak-a-boo alien pops upLess than half of your playtime in Alien Isolation is spent dealing with the alien. The majority of the time it's either going to be just nothing as you explore empty rooms or dealing with humans or androids. There's only a handful of moments in the game where the alien is scripted to appear and you HAVE to deal with it. Anymore than that and it's on you sucking at the game.
>>740064246you fucking consume entire lineages of slugs in a single day because you're thirsty
Type of zesty that won't hurt a fish
>>740067957>There's only a handful of moments in the game where the alien is scripted to appear and you HAVE to deal with it. Anymore than that and it's on you sucking at the gameThe alien has a rather circular pattern of 'show up, hide in the vents for a bit, teleport to player room, show up' and repeat. You'd know that if you played the game.You can be silent as a fucking mouse-fart a dozen rooms away from the alien and he absolutely will show up out of the blue for no reason.
>>740067957Sounds like you played on baby modeRegular game modes force the alien to pop out the instant it gets too far from you and the higher the difficulty, the smaller that distance is.And it gets really, really, really fucking annoying to hear it walk over your head because you know it'll run out of rope and pop out in the next 5 seconds
>>740063216Not reading that wall of faggot dev babble
What's great about the Subnautica 2 debacle is it shows how many paid shills the company hired for PR control.>IF YOU WANT TO KILL STUFF GO PLAY VIOLENTMURDERGAMES!Hey wait a minute, but you could kill in Subnautica 1? In multiple ways? Including literal fucking torpedos full of poison? You aren't just some third worlder who never bothered to play or at least research the game you're paid to defend, right?>SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!
>>740068165>>740068268How often the alien pops out depends on how much of a racket you make.If you actually play the stealth game as a stealth game there's only a handful of moments where the game will force the alien to pop out and start patrolling around.
>>740063216>we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the world, because the message of the game very much is people learning to live in parallel with the world that they're in.”>we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the worldlol
>>740068497>How often the alien pops out depends on how much of a racket you make.No, he's on a strict timer. You can stay still and make zero noise at all and he can and WILL show up to say hello.
>>740068372Why do the devs hate Sons of the Forest?Fucking weirdos.
>>740068440And worse, you can kill plenty of stuff in Subnautica 2, you're just not allowed to touch the aggressive ones with low IQ.
>>740068606>Killing violent nigger-standin monstersUNACCEPTABLE>Mass consumption and refining into electricity White-standin peaceful critters?ACCEPTABLE
>>740068601because evil whitey killing wholesome mutant natives
>stealth advertising threadThe fact that people are really pushing this faux 'controversy' proves that shills and bots have taken over the board.Not being able to 'kill' the animals just creates a different gameplay paradigm, and not even an original one, albeit unique in the sandbox builder genre.
>>740068372>If you want to play a killing game play SOTFTo be fair all the cannibals in the game are out to get you, it's hardly 'killing' when they're literal mutant subhuman beasts.
>>740065042It is honestly this. Basic survival necessitates having a knife but more so. DIVING IN SCUBA GEAR REQUIRES YOU TO HAVE A FUCKING KNIFE. You get caught in seaweed, your gear gets snagged on coral, it is a fucking emergency tool or anything that can cut. How do you make a fucking diving game AND FORGET THAT MOST BASIC FUCKING RULE IN DIVING FOR ENTANGLEMENT SAFETY
>>740068598You are referring to the director subroutine that only comes in to play when you spend 10-15 minutes in the same area.
>>740068705>Advertising is when you upset your target audience and push them away from buying the gameNo, you're the retarded advertisement bot by trying to downplay how dogshit the game is.
>>740064914You stupid fucker. You expect people to put indefinite hours into an early access build?
This is one of the most retarded controversies ever and it's pretty much reverse SJW bullshit.>YOU ARE LITERALLY PROMOTING NON ARYAN VALUES BY NOT LETTING ME HARPOON THE BIG FISH
>>740068767>The alien is NOT on a timer>Yes it is, stand in a room and he'll show up>YES he is on a timer
>>740068779>target audienceYou fuckwits aren't the audience, none of you bots actually buy and play video games.
>>740066854>>740066118Yeah, especially if you have surgery to permanently undo ingrown toenails. Last time it happened to me was like a decade ago. Cursed foot genetics, man.
>>740068440I didn't even kill in the previous game unless necessary but holy fuck these Nibbler niggers are genuine aids. Took me like 4-5 hours just to build my first actual base because everytime I would find a nice place and start building these dipshits would wander over and bug me like their real life equivalent.>this patch notekek
>>740068838Still not buying your game, don't you have more fake american shootings to cry over?
>>740068598>You can stay still and make zero noise at all and he can and WILL show up to say hello.There is only a handful of parts in the game where this will occur because the game is forcing the alien to do patrol action. These are the "alien encounters". There's also "human encounters" and "android encounters" and "nothing encounters". Outside of the scripted sequences the alien will not show up unless you do something to draw it out, e.g. get into a firefight with humans.I've walked away from the game without bothering to pause and come back like 40 minutes later and my character is still just standing the exact same spot not having been killed by the alien because for the vast majority of the game the alien won't appear without the player triggering it to.
>>740068826>creature that actively hunts you with sixth sense eventually finds you if you aren't on the moveThis nigger never played Haunting Ground.
>>740063216I like the series, played all the games. Do I mind that you can't kill leviathans in 2? Not really, I didn't even give a shit about trying to do that in 1 or BZ either. I understand from a design point perspective, but I think the devs are being retarded about this, just give players shit weapons, have the leviathans respawn after a set amount of time or let other smaller predators take place of where the larger leviathan was previously (ecosystem equilibrium and all that shit), if people want to kill fish then let them kill fish. I guess they just didn't want to bother with weapons because it would be more work to balance shit.
>>740063216>Allen can attack you>You DARE attack allen back!??? Our game is NOT for YOU!smooth move retard dev
>>740068885There's no indication Xenomorphs have much of a sixth sense, else he'd eat your ass while you're hiding under a table.
>>740067705Retard
>ANY GAME WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE A GUN IS WOKE!!1Amerisharts are so fucking retarded.
I'm surprised they're captiulating on this. The game already sold like crazy, they could take their bag of dollary-doos and disappeared into the night.
>>740069046Nobody is asking for a gun, people are asking for a knife, a pointed stick, fucking anything to make the endless shark-style monsters from nibbling at you.You realize that bangsticks and powerheads exist IRL?
>>740069065They're not capitulating, they're adding minor hit-states for when you swing the stupid hammer at fish so you don't phase right through them. But that's all that's happening.
>>740063602>bought the same game twice KEKEKEKEKEEK you showed them bro
Fish are friends
>>740069046I haven't played this game but my understanding is Subnautica 1 had a knife that could be used for defense but Subnautica 2 removed it because killing is badong.
>>740063369horror and sandbox arent mutually exclusive, the forest is great for example
>>740069205Yea, and you also got a fire variant that let you cook fish on the go. It was never a killing game to begin with but the devs hated the 1% that spent 10 minutes to kill 1 leviathan so they just punished the 99% with this retarded decision.
>apologizing againThis is just an apology cycle, just say that it once and never agin>>740068372I don't mind the whole "no killing rule" but being like >Yeah... Go play your little "sons of the forest".. this is a REAL gameSeems really anti indie, especially because this was an official statement
>>740069649>erm erm i feel it's kind of an offensive statementThis is the screenshot. It's not insulting or dismissive it's literally just fucking telling you "go play Sons of the Forest if you want to kill"I'm tired of niggers like you joining faggot fake controversies just to add more bullshit that makes no sense. Go fuckign hang yourself like the troons your equals.
>>740068767alien isolation had an infamous let's play by some literal who that went viral because they flat out killed the alien like, 5 times? or some shit in a single playthrough by different means and the 'game' just kept fucking respawning the fucking thing. i think the streamer even caught the game literally spawning the alien out of thin air whrn they were doing some animation that glitched the camera so the alien spawning 'behind' them actually happened in front of them.
>>740069805I think you had a stroke reading that anon, I literally agreed with everything you said
>>740069805"Or something"That's the part that makes them sound passive aggressive.
>>740068665>nigger-standinlegs apart with your pants at your knees>nigger stand-inanalogous to niggersknow the difference
>>740070008Thanks grammar police, that's very useful information on the Japanese Loli and Goreposting website.
>>740068705>a different gameplay paradigm"literally ignore everything threatening beyond knowing one is nearby and needs to be fled" is a hell of a 'gameplay' method
>>740069940That's a different anon, anon. I'm the anon you were initially responding to. Anyways it's best to just ignore retarded schizos like him that make up arguments in his mind and think it's reality.
>>740068767>just be slow and quiet, idiot>TOO SLOW
>>740068705>different gameplay paradigmI suppose 'ignore everything in the game because there's nothing you can do about it anyways' is 'different'.But different can often mean 'really shit'.
if they want to show that killing bad why don't they just make an extinction mechanic?
>>740069308imagine if ffxiv had invincible bosses around because the devs didn't like how people managed to kill the joke superboss in ffxi
>>740070050is this a loli thread or goreposting thread, defensive-kun?
>>740063216This is all karma for firing that music guy who didn't even say anything controversial. If anything the current devs said way worse things by now. Fuck these faggots, I'm never wasting a cent on their trash.
>>740063253>This is the first game where rampant woke-ism is actively holding back the gameplayWhy do you fags always try to revision history and purposely act "forgetful" and delusional about reality.No it isn't the first one and it won't be the last one
>>740070210>Review by Jman3456>Negative, 4.2 hrs played>"i hit a fail state and I don't like that"
>>740070223It's even worse because you can't even reliably get rid of pic related and they constantly fucking annoy you while you build your base.>inb4 don't build your base near themI did that shit and they still find away, plus they're fucking everywhere.
>>740063496>fucks up your entire game and in turn the risk of your entire dev team getting fired for going bankrupt because muh american guns or something>while purposely ignoring the actual root WHY these things happenedWhat is it with self-flagellant american hating americans only thinking throught halfway? Are their braincells incapable of finishing the line?
>>740063216Fair enough. Constantly having to deal with an adversity instead of allowing the player to simply remove it with force is just a design decision and I'm fine with that.
>>740063602>>get your fanbase to turn on the modders and compare them to the holocaust and colonizer bullshitDid that actually happen?
>>740070524>Did that actually happen?They threw a huge hissyfit over modders who added weapons to the game yeah.
>>740065197>sub2 predators are the jeetsHoly, maybe the devs aren't too bad
>>740070491>deal with an adversityread the thread. 'run from every noise' is not 'dealing' with anything
>>740070562>casually becomes the most popular gameplay modkek
>>740063227>something you see in real life when you see people that keep alligators as pets, right? They're like, ‘Oh, alligators are perfectly safe as long as they're not hungry, you know?Does that really work?
>>740070325Name some others?
>>740063540You're incredibly naive.
>>740070719Project zomboid>WE DON'T LIKE SMOKING OR GUNS! SO THEY WILL BE SUPER HARD TO COME BY AND WILL SUCK ASS!This was the case for about 10 fucking years of the game's development until they hired a chud who then added shitloads of guns and cigarettes to the game lmao
>>740066190if you mention that you get hunted down
>>740070751There's nothing naive about being horrified by kids shooting each other in school.
Why don't you entitled babies just go make your own subnautica 2?
>>740070657Alligators are generally fairly safe if they're well fed. They aren't territorial like crocodiles so as long as you aren't threatening them, they'll be pretty chill.The issue is that even a 'small' gator can fuck your shit up big time, and it only takes one fuckup.Conversely a python is not going to 'attack' you, but even if it did, python bites aren't that bad.
>make unambiguous statement>potential customers react to statement negatively>"players have misunderstood our statement"Fuck off.
>>740070486This, nothing will change until they take out the gun lobby.
>>740070808Why do entitled developers feel they shouldn't be criticized for gameplay decisions that players dislike?
>>740070808Copyright and trademark protections
>>740070914>THERE WILL BE NO KILLING IN OUR GAME! GO PLAY BETTER GAMES IF YOU WANT KILLING!>That's fucking stupid, the game plays like ass because you can't deal with threats at all>S-SHUT THE FUCK UP GOYS WHY DO YOU PERSECUTE US SO!?
>>740071002Because companies pay a lot of money to trick people into buying their products and people should not be able to threaten a companies profits with their opinions.
>>740071002Because not buying new product because it is new and a product, is economic terrorism and potentially antisemitism if the lack of purchasing is due to rejection of commie retard stuff being in the game or development studio.
>>740071002Corpos are entitled to your money, chud.
>>740065031Running and hiding from the leviathans was somewhat cool early-mid game, but the best part was still punching it with the prawn and going "holy shit, I can hurt this thing now!".>>740065042Exactly.
>Players really want to do X>So we removed XThis is modern game design
>>740063216what a bunch of horseshitkeep your tension, i don't expect to be handed a railgun to oneshot reapers, i just want a fucking harpoon gun to kill food so i don't have to chase them with bare hands like some retarded day one robinson crusoe despite having nuclear technology in my back yard
>>740063253Imagine going to the zoo and hearing monkeys yelling statements like these. You would get at least 2 peanuts and 1 banana out of me. Keep going!The issue with the game is there is no content and there is no incentive to release the game faster because they "won" against krafton.
>>740071460When I couldn't fuck the dragon in Rune Factory 4, I knew something was fundamentally wrong with game developers.
>>740065389Welcome to nature. Everything wants to kill everything else.The things that don't are mostly extinct.>>74006527490% odds its going to be retarded.>>740065335This would be the best way.If I want to disrupt the environment. Let me.But then also let me deal with the consequences.
>>740069181>t. Has 10,000 cured Peepers in his base's lockers
>>740065660>give the player too much power and there's no tension.Wrong, you just need to throw lots of enemies at the player constantly in that case. For example RE4, Dead Space etc.
>>740063216>One, we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the world, because the message of the game very much is people learning to live in parallel with the world that they're in.What if, instead, you let me do what I want with the game I bought. Like, I gave you money. Let me do what I want. If you can't handle players doing what they want, maybe you should make movies.
>>740063216China wins again
>>740067805>TownsWhy must you bring this up. Im still mad about it after all these years.
>>740071730I cured them of space aids.
>>740070768The faggot devs still got their revenge by nerfing the shit out of the trait
>>740070804The naivety is thinking the devs genuinely care instead of using the tragedy as a soapbox to scream about their politics from.
>>740070948may as well take out the oil, car and coal lobby as well.
>>740071753You're fucking stupid. Literally the only reason Subnautica works is because the Leviathans are used sparingly. Throwing in a bunch of them would ruin the entire game. Fucking zoomer.
>>740070657Basically? Yeah. It's the whole reason Alligator farms are even a thing.That said, they're still fucking Alligators. Don't provoke them or let down your guard. They're still a deadly predator.
I don't really care if a developer feels passionately about making a cosy pacifistic game for women where the player spends their time petting the fishies, I just don't want devs and journos whining about how a studio spent hundreds of millions on a game that didn't sell and that this is somehow the fault of "toxic incel gamer bros".
>>740063216>incel nazi chuds are losing their shit because the game doesn't let them build assault rifles and gas chambers
>>740072105Actually, you can build gas chambers.
>>740071460I praise devs that do this really. When devslisten to the player base we get shit like ffxivJust let them follow their vision instead of making a game polluted by the masses dogshit opinions
>>740063216oh they'll be improving gameplay/content options?good choice but I don't really care because the game still looks gay
>>740070719Final fantasy 14 dawntrail where the final boss of the expansion has the gameplay experience hampered by an NPC suddenly appearing to "help" (do more damage than the 8 players combined to the the point the players can just sheethe their weapons and still win the fight)
>>740063216Is it just me being an ESL or does he constantly use language that makes him look like he's a kumbaya hippie peace & love guy even when he is literally trying to clarify that that is not the case?I mean these:>maybe there was a place for a game that didn't add more to the landscape of violent games>the message of the game very much is people learning to live in parallel with the world that they're inI love the games btw, got the first one for free from Timmy
>>740072091I didn't know those were even a thing.Are the crocodile farms, or does the territoriality you mentioned earlier prevent that?
>>740072407*are there also crocodile farms
>>740072105>gas chambersWhen it comes to fish, any gas will do. If you take them into your base (colonization btw, sinful) you'll gas them and they'll die.We're not talking about people, we're talking about fish. Fish that, in some cases, want to kill and eat you. It's apparently morally wrong to prevent this from happening. It's apparently common practice to scuba without a knife.Just be prey bro.
>>740066715The first Subnautica was unironically lightning in a bottle, and the devs have been making it increasingly clear the good aspects of it's design were completely accidental.
>>740072518Nah they had talent and a vision. They've just been eroded from within by woke people with an agenda.
>>740070719Undertale
>>740072506We must to be better subnauticans. When a holefish speaks, we must sit down, listen and be humble.
>>740063216>we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the world, because the message of the game very much is people learning to live in parallel with the world that they're inBut surely said world, by default, features an animal food chain where the bigger predators kill the smaller fish?
>>740072091I thought they first stated farms because alligators were threatened and that was like a whole program to increase the population
>>740072407Crocodile farms are sort of a thing, but way the fuck more dangerous.
>>740072407I've never seen anyone get in a pool with a croc so I think they just make even more terrible petshttps://youtu.be/3nTbQlZsQv0?si=zcI-b7zuYYJJVMNr
>>740072891Stop trying to apply logic to their viewpoints. Turbo-enviromentalists like them really start turning into evangelicals with how they talk about humans as if we are uniquely sinful, need to prostrate ourselves before nature, and no amount of human flourishing could ever be worth the damage done.
>>740073072Getting into a pool with a crocodile (unless it's a Freshwater Croc) is usually considered to be suicide.
>>740063216>There is now this idea that we really are leaning into "Subnautica" being a pacifism game, >which wasn't our intent.how easily they lie
I still don't get why Sons of the Forest caught a stray bullet from the dev.
>>740072980>>740073072Any advantages to crocs over gators?
>>740067778>Put out leviathan feeder>hungry leviathans approach meWhat could go wrong?
>>740070804Would you believe kids used to be encouraged to bring their guns to school?
>>740073337If you want a pet that is considering killing you at all times and can easily crocs win there.
>>740073337Resource-wise when it comes to farming? Nope, alligators are just a smarter choice because you can make way more of them and they aren't so comically dangerous.Farming alligators is sort of like farming landmines, just don't step on them.Farming crocodiles is sort of like farming Screamers from...The movie Screamers. Yeah go ahead and don't step on them, it won't help.
i NEED to shoot the fish with a big gun
>>740063216>game design, which was inspired by the likes of "Soma" and "Alien Isolationdear god they really do not have any idea what the fuck they're doing
I'm just baffled in three games about diving close to dangerous marine life there's not one harpoonIt's basic art direction to have harpoons in your underwater game, how can you fuck up something this simple?
>>740073668because they want to be "different", but have neither the talent or idea on what to do.
>>740065583i'm convinced the entire 'controversy' is purely just to generate buzz
>>740073776Spergs were unironically drinking krafton's koolaid purely out of spite for the devs being fags. They're petty enough to argue about anything.
>>740063216I don't care about this discourse I just want to fuck the asian girl
>>740067143kek
>>740065207I disagree with the trivializing, since it was always a long, involved process to kill the leviathan, being free of the leviathan threat and the tension it caused is your reward for putting the work in.The only thing I'd support being removed is stasis cheese because unlike the prawn suit melee or torpedos it's just tedium of slashing the reaper several hundred times while keeping it frozen.
>>740073915im playin cyberpunk and there's plenty more less dressed asian women in that
>>740074023I have a thing for skintight bodysuits, lemme have this one anon.
>>740063253literally the only thing that made encountering Reapers and such in the first game was how powerless you were against them, the moment you get the stasis rifle the game loses the whole spoopy ocean thinggame is genuinely more exciting when you are NOT allowed to kill the alien predators
>>740063216The best way to avoid this sort of headache is to tell every single employee to shut the fuck up. This all started cuz one guy thought he was being cheeky.
>>740073668If they wanted to be special snowflakes, they could've used actual underwater weapons like CO2 injecting knives, bangsticks, spears that attach balloons/chutes to creatures, etc.
>>740063216>"One, we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the world, because the message of the game very much is people learning to live in parallel with the world that they're in.”Oh so it was exactly what people inferred then.
>>740074093You're so right, games are so fun when you can't interact with anything due to faked school shootings scaring the developers over a decade ago.
>>740063216I never even played the first game because it had a black main character.
>>740066235fun fact about subnautica: they didn't initially have hunger or thirst mechanics until they realized it made for a good way to force people who were too scared to leave the lifepod to go outside.It's not quite a survival sandbox game in the vein of the forest or something. It's like a weird in-between of that and something like Outer Wilds where the actual main meat of the game is in unlocking new areas through exploration. Subnautica isn't really good for just building up a house.
Leviathans were so uncommon to begin with that I never really cared about not being able to kill them. Warpers and crab squids deserve the gas chamber though.It's obvious they were more butthurt about players massacring all the passive fish for fun, and most players would at least once.
>>740074326I really doubt it considering you can still depopulate a reef by shoving every prey fish into your mouth all at once
>>740074215this. let me shoot the fishies with a machine gun.
>>740063216>you dont have to buy it chud!! it's not for you!!>uhhhh this isnt what we meant please come back!!i kek everitime
>>740063216Don't care, not beta testing your game
I'd say this would all be completely fair if it was implemented well mechanically and contextually. The former they should be able to do but the latter I don't think they can pull off. How can you have a human in a world of hostile creatures and be unable to defend yourself meaningfully. The best they can hope for is to have the option, like between shooing a fly out the window or crushing it, I don't see how they can otherwise make it convincing.
>>740063216>FUCK YOU, THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU IF YOU WANT TO KILL THE EVIL FISHIES!>U-Uhm actually haha that isn't what we meant! PLEASE FUCKING BUY THE GAME!What I love about these scenarios is there's some games that just outright listen to all the player suggestions and the community is completely sated as a result.
>>740074398The fish have to be edible for the game to work. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
>>740063325You can definitely tell the devs are exactly what you think they are by how long winded and elaborate their lies are. I would have simply said "from a game design standpoint, maintaining a sense of a threat is difficult if players know they can fight back effectively and due to AI limitations, its not so hard to achieve that"
There's a huge space between "Brutal Doom: Under da Sea" and "Dear Esther: Walking into the Ocean", but just straight up making every single fish immortal god creatures weak only to your hungering maw is the laziest shit possible.It should be just like 1 or BZ where you can, with stupid persistence, stab a giant see monster to death with your little knife, or rather bonk one to death with your Switchaxe Survival Multitool. But also there should be a plethora of options for deterring, distracting, and evading creatures. There's so much xenobiology written in the data bank after you scan shit that would make for interesting ways to exploit their behavior IF they gave us some tools to do it and actually coded those behaviors into the game.>>740065274Based on what the PDA and Databank says, you'll be able to grow more defensive plants or even hatch various eggs in the Growbeds to defend your base. You can't do it now, but it straight up tells you to hatch Sandspears, the ambush predators that hide in the sea floor and shoot out to attack you.
>>740074093The stasis gun doesn't kill shit, it was the result of the dev's previous retarded attempt at being pacifist to a creature trying to kill you.If instead of that ai disabling gun they gave you harpoons so you could hope to kill a leviathan but risk getting captain Ahab'd they'd have much more compelling gameplay.But instead they jumped from that stupid weapon to the active perimeter button press to win and now to complete submission.Subnautica was a fluke, these devs are hacks.
>>740063216>GUNS GUNS GUNSShut the fuck up this isn't about guns this is about being able to defend yourself and/or permanently deleting a threat if you put enough efforts for itWhen people drill a hole in the skull of a Reaper, Sea Dragon and whatever else this is because they wanted to take the risk to get rid of them permanently even if it's unorthodox methodsNot being able to swing your hatchet a local fauna like you would your knife in Sub1 to deter them from actually going after you was validIn sub1, if you go crazy on fauna it can even have averse effects such as not being able to gather Stalker's teeth if you kill them allSub2's immersion is partially ruined because of this averse-to-kill rule. In Sub1, whatever you move around in your Seamoth or your Prawler you just happen to collide into smaller fishes and they just die on the spot, it's not like you're necessarily trying to but it adds to the immersionSub2 with its invincible fauna makes it boring For all intents and purpose, why not just have actual things happening if you kill a Leviathan? You kill that collector? Suddenly its preys are now polluting the space the Leviathan used to occupy. But no, instead let's just keep on going with the "you must do no harm" bullshit that also dilute the experience
>>740066369Water too clear, 0/10 would not swim in
>>740074687>from a game design standpoint, maintaining a sense of a threat is difficult if players know they can fight back effectively and due to AI limitations, its not so hard to achieve thatThis is a nonsensical argument which wouldn't hold up to scrutiny because the first game HAD ways to fight back.The whole point is to start the player off helpless and by the end-game they CAN kill the monsters fairly easily.The Forest did it, and everyone is fine with how that works.
>>740074636they've had like 5 years to think up ways to deter the annoying fish, the main antagonists of the game, and yet here we are
>>740063216>‘We're a game about pacifism, or we're a non-violent studio.’ [Our] studio was founded by modders who made Half-Life mods and their first mods were all about shooting aliens. They loved the movie Aliens and they wanted to make an Aliens video game that was legally distinct. That is what Natural Selection 1 and 2 are basically.”wow those are some choice wordsis a single person who worked on NS even working there anymore? it sure sounds like he's avoiding actually connecting himself to them despite wanting to use their reputation to boost himself
>>740063216if you think the only way you can deal with the scary fish is by killing them, you're a fucking coward and a cuck. get over your thalassophobia, stop being a pussy.i've been seeing this same bullshit since the first game was in early access, you're all hiding behind "we need guns" because you're scared
>>740074845>>For all intents and purpose, why not just have actual things happening if you kill a Leviathan? You kill that collector? Suddenly its preys are now polluting the space the Leviathan used to occupy. But no, instead let's just keep on going with the "you must do no harm" bullshit that also dilute the experienceThat's one of the best suggestions out there. Actual food chain simulation where killing an apex predator like the Leviathans leads to the runner up flourishing and causing more problems as they are no longer kept in check. As they spread out and eat more, there's less resources for you, they'll be more desperate and aggressive seeing you as a valuable meal and pursue rather than be warned off with basic defenses because it's either eat your or starve. Shit like that.Another very good suggestion is to mimic real life cycles where too much dead and rotting fish cause blooms of algae or jellyfish. One of the background threats of the game is literally called, "The Bloom", so it already ties in thematically.Which further ties in with their, "You're not here to dominate" bullshit where if you try, it causes you more problems. But both of those require effort.
>>740075235Still not buying your game.Buy an ad.
>>740063227>>Gallegos cited Konami horror masterpiece Silent Hill 2, where players will master the pipe combat despite it being poor “because it's way better to kill every creature in every hallway and then freely run through it than it is to dodge them when they're scary.”>I can only get scared by things that are dangerous, horror from things like emotions and james' repressed hatred of his pathetic dying wife aren't scary unless they go raaaaaaah and bite me really hard and the game over screen appears!
>>740063216The funniest thing they could have done for a sequel is embrace more ways to kill fish. Imagine going through every age of discovery and at every step your gun/melee evolves until your stupid ass is automating glorified bug zapper fields for those stupid AI generated sharks.Sequels are supposed to add more, not take away shit. If they belly up after their next title from these pinheaded mistakes then thats simply divine intervention against rejecting your base human instinct to club an annoying creature to death with a rock. We made spears pretty quickly in the real-life talent tree, why the protagonist is allergic to taking a 3d printed pole and attaching a sharp rock to the end of it is frankly baffling. You mean to tell me a caveman being attacked has more intelligence than a mystery meat mutt who has access to Print-Anything-Machines?
>>740074896>This is a nonsensical argument which wouldn't hold up to scrutiny because the first game HAD ways to fight back.The game was not scary to me the instant I figured out that I could stasis the leviathans and stab them to death for 10 minutes and they would never come back. If I got bored of that, then I would jump into my mech suit and grapple onto them while drilling them to death while they took me for a ride. The only thing I feared in subnautica is the void. Amnesia was well regarded because it maintained the illusion of an unstoppable monster. I ruined their first two games because you can kill the monsters in those by abusing the AI. In the Forest people are not scared of the mutants because you can kill them, they are a threat because of the numbers, but they are not scary.>The whole point is to start the player off helpless and by the end-game they CAN kill the monsters fairly easily.Thats not up to you to decide. I think the game that did horror the best was the Alien game, you can fight back, but its ultimately superficial.
>>740074273Who can swim no less.
>>740075519So just remove the stasis gun then?
>>740072407Gators have very little territorial ambition because of the environment they evolved in. Crocs exist around African watering holes, an ungodly biome that's basically a non-stop murder party year round that everybody is forced to stay at because they'll die of dehydration otherwise. Crocs are super territorial and aggressive because of this, whereas gators basically don't give a shit 90% of the time because the area they occupy is massive, and competition over prey is minimal. That isn't to say they don't get into fights during mating season or that they won't bite your hand off, but if you know a gator isn't hungry, you are probably quite safe to be around it. I'd argue for exotic pet owners, assuming both are well fed, a black bear is more dangerous to you than an american gator.
>>740075156I know, I doubt they will resolve it. That they've had to walk away and come up with an actual design philosophy since they found out being condescending, disingenuous faggots to their own customers didn't work is proof enough to me. But even when being charitable and assuming they actually want to make it work it still doesn't really work when you think about it for a few seconds. Violence is always an option for a functional human being unless you properly establish the enemy as being impervious to harm, which they haven't done.
I just don't feel like its a well-thought out philosophy. Can't you eat the fish and use their bodies as some form of resource? So I can kill it and eat it, or use its flesh to upgrade my watch but if it tries to kill me, defending myself is too rightwing coded or not smart enough, or something? If I was a dangerous fish, I think it would be more natural for me to attack something and get attacked back than a weird space monkey grabs me and turns me into a chair because guns bad.
>>740075639Right, so youre telling me that you need to remove the weapons to maintain the sense of a threat? The better option is better balancing or game design instead removing tools/weapons. They could have simply made it where the reapers respawn after you leave the zone to make the time investment worthless.
>>740075519Kind of related but I just finished Darkwood, and that game had me shitting my pants even when my entire base was defended with traps and I had a fully loaded shotgun in my hands. I think the permadeath mechanic had something to do with it, but the atmosphere and randomness was also a factor.
>>740075884>Violence is always an optionviolence is never ok. NEVER. unless its a person of colour stabbing you because you said the n-word.
>>740076174The stasis rifle working on creatures 3 times the length of a Blue Whale was just stupid.
>>740075884They literally have an in lore reason to not have guns and they could have just pointed to that. Instead, they went full on woketard and started calling their playerbase colonizers like deranged schizos in a market where survival games are nowadays a dime a dozen; and without the heavy handed politics and spyware. Not to mention the weird terms and conditions that, even if they aren’t enforceable, still reflect a company too into huffing their own self-righteous farts while still appearing highly insecure about it.
>>740076356People aren't asking for guns though, they're asking for at least some fucking spears. Something CAVEMEN figured out.
>install mod that enables killing>suddenly feel like killing leviathans when I've never killed one in the last 2 gamesbravo devs
>>740063216>>740063227All those words just so they won't admit they were wrong
>>740063216I am fine with not being able to kill the fish. But they need to give the player the tools needed to avoid or drive the fish back.Right now, if you're trying to go to the alien ruins from the starting area, you will get grabbed by the squid outside of being lucky with it's positioning. You cannot avoid it, you cannot distract it, you cannot stop it, you cannot make it flee. It simply will chase you, grab you and give you a few hits which will require repair.It's the same with every aggressive fish. I don't need a fucking uzi to blast every fish I see, but I do need more than a single use flare that sometimes distracts a fish for a few seconds (especially with how dogshit limited the inventory in this game is).
>>740063216>we didn’t want to give players the attitude that they were a “dominator over the worldThat's great but your game is a survival crafting gameIt's normal to start weak but at the end, you're supposed to be to master of those landsI won't buy it if I can't become the apex
>>740074326You can kill all those things in subnautica 1.
>>740076356A lore reason for no guns isn't really enough. 'Me smash fish with rock' it isn't something you can easily write your way out of, they'd have to be smarter writers than they are to pull it off without frustrating the player.
nogunz is fine, but I hate the fact that we're given a glorified branch trimmer in place of a survival diving knifecooking a small fish with a thermoblade was super nice, I don't know why they decided to do away with thatI'd be okay with letting leviathans or even the bigger predator fish be immune, but at least let me hunt for food like a normal ass human being
>>740068869>Kill Nibblers. Behead Nibblers. Roundhouse kick a Nibbler into the ocean floor.
>>740076234Horror can be achieved in many ways. Its just a matter of making sure the horror element maintains it presence in some manner. Either its an actual threat to you or there is a consequence to failure inherently making them a threat. I think Darkwood is a great example of a properly designed survival horror game.>>740076314Very much so. But its things like this that expose the devs bad faith arguments about guns.
Its muh sandy hook bullshit. Another woke retard drev.
>>740071460>players want to press X to winRiveting.
>>740077116>Implying Subnautica of all games is especially challengingBetween 'press X to win but it's fun' and 'lmao you can't even press x and it's boring' I pick the former.
Don't build your bases in areas where hostile wildlife roams. Idiots.
>>740077190I was doing a permadeath run, and it went swimmingly until a glitch randomly killed me while I was inside the seamoth in the undersea area.There's a fun mod that turns the air toxic, highly recommended for the true survival experience. Set reaper tracking to low though.
>>740077557>I was playing cock and ball torture modded run, the game is NOT easy and made for babies!Try playing...The actual game?
>>740063216having some way to stun or repel predators is not me "dominating" the world, its getting the world the leave me the fuck alone while i leave it alone.
>>740077487Dude this fucking retarded argument again. I literally moved my base to an area with absolutely no nibblers and somehow after like an hour or two of comfy building the nibblers still find me. At least in the first game you could kill stalkers that wander too far from the kelp biome but in this game you can't even do that.
>>740077487Why would a hopeless weakling who can't overpower a fish build a base anywhere? they should stay home.
Your game is set in alien world with future technology and under water.Literally sky is the limit of executing these things 'in game' or so. Why are they so fucking uncreative? t. screenwriter
>>740073318Their contemporaries in the survival-crafting genre.
So let me get this straight, the game removes features from previous entries that helped players deal with some of the more annoying creatures, and when players question that decision, the developers respond by shaming players? What about nicer QOL items like the thermal knife? Are features like that simply gone forever because they conflict with the game's "intended message"? I don't think most detractors are actually asking for guns. From what I've seen, they're asking for better ways to defend themselves or manage encounters because of how aggressive the current AI can be. Framing the criticism as "players just want guns" feels like a strawman. It ignores the actual complaint, which is that people want more options for dealing with frustrating or overly persistent threats.
Why the fuck does every dumbass nigger think this is about killing Leviathans?
>>740078414They don't, they just can't honestly argue in favor of no combat in this game so they strawman everyone who criticizes the game.
>>740078414Taking criticism and ballooning it into an entirely different argument that's easier to defeat is easier than defending a decision in good faith.
I played the game on gamepass and as a general rule I dont ever buy day 1 gamepass games because clearly theres something wrong with the game if theyre going to let me play it for that cheap.
>>740074687I'm so glad this happened and they revealed who they are, it put me off from ever considering this.Doing nothing wins again.
>>740078843Microsoft likes to bribe devs in the same way Epic does in an attempt to bring more customers to the platform.
Reading all these threads, it seems like the real issue is that the devs are trying to make a game where there’s constant tension and unease, but instead it’s just really fucking annoying.If you want the player to be scared, you can’t put them under an omnipresent damage effect, that cannot be avoided, from the moment they leave their base. Instead of taking damage being an "oh shit" moment, it’s not even noteworthy.
>>740065042>In Sub1 if you hit a tiny fish with your sub it would dieAnd the Seamoth would take 15 damage from it.
>>740078414I just thing the britbong safety axe that cannot harm living creatures is incredibly funny
>>740066190We're talking about 2, not Below Zero.
>>740068807The game failed, stop white-knighting it and move on with your life.
>>740078332>Framing the criticism as "players just want guns" feels like a strawman.The retarded jump from "hey we want something to stop the annoying smaller fishes from annoying me" to "OMG WHY CANT THE GAME JUST BE LIKE COD" is literally just an argument conjured up in the mind of some actual schizo.I like to check what kind of games and bases these kinds of people play and make on the Steam forums, and it's usually shit too.
>>740073915Is it me or is Triage (the asian girl) the only remotely decent looking playable character? Everyone else looks ugly.
>>740079723the white guy is decently looking but the latter half are just diversity quota niggas>mfw have to hear this abomination of an accent in-game
Why is almost every fucking log sounds like a bunch of 'yaazzz queen girls we wuz marine biologists and shiet' kind of shit?And so far I've yet to hear somebody who has an actual proper English accent
>>740063253it's niggers like this who have destroyed game discussionfind a game with a bunch of fundamental design flaws and then reduce it all down to "muh woke" so that the actual problems can never be addressed and people more readily dismiss your words as being faggot retardation. fucking psyop shit
>>740072902So there are two major types of alligator farms: open farms and closed farms. Open farms are farms used for population management, where alligators are bred in captivity and then donated to zoos or else reintroduced into their native habitat like the Everglades after dumbfucks tanked the natural ecosystem. Closed farms are farms where alligators are bred and raised for the express purpose of making leather and meat. Incidentally, if you ever get the chance, I highly recommend having some fried alligator steaks, they're a real treat. I loved all of my babies but I also loved the chewy texture of their cousins with a bit of batter and jalapeno sauce. >t. former open farm employee
>>740063227>>740064248It's almost as if action and horror aren't actually mutually exclusive and making combat intentionally clunky doesn't stop you from still being able to easily defeat all the fodder enemies. There's no difference between games like Silent Hill 1/2 and Resident Evil 4 in that regard yet people will still insist only one of these is a horror game because muh roundhouse kicking, muh 'splosions! I prefer to be able to actually defeat the horrors in my horror games and doing it with style.
>>740063216Way to go Sub2 faggots, you just lost four more customers with your bullshit. Why would anyone buy a game with LESS options in it? I'm glad I did my research and looked up the gameplay, this "game" is complete faggotry personified.
>>740080064White guy has dyed hair. Instant nope.
>>740063216>learning to live in parallelDo you actually?All I've seen from streamers is in line with simply being an outsider much like the first game:>touch magic gene plants to "bioadapt">grab fish, cook, eat, leaving the sea floor barren>avoid predator fish>build a sterile home>harvest metal for a submarine or whateverIs it ironic that these liberal one-with-nature games have no connection to nature?
>>740063216>>740063227>wall of textJust admit defeat before this game bankrupts you, people are gonna find a way to mod killing in anyawy
>>740063253>non-woke games in the genre like Grounded
>>740069169>imblyingI bought subnautica 1 for cheap during one of the seasonal sales. I never bought the other one, and was interested in eventually playing 2 until this. They got like $10-15 out of me, hardly a win.
>>740073668Because this isn't a marine hunting game, you're crash-landed on a planet you weren't meant to be and Alterra is Weyland-Yutani levels of evil and controlling.
>>740063253>This is the first game where rampant woke-ism is actively holding back the gameplayman now I remember Hardspace: Shipbreakerwhat a travesty that 1.0 release was
>>740082621>in the far far future, humans are so lobotomized they cannot take a stick and sharpen itsociety
>>740080503Based Alterra shipping all the undesirables to death worlds while making up some bullshit story about Earth being gone so the sea monkeys don't think to come back.
>>740082806This has been a plot in so many stories over the centuries, who does this particular one make you so angry?
>>740080503They do? Sounds like you're once again making things up solely to be angry. I'll never understand that mindset.
>>740065335>kill predators to create an overpopulation of fish you eat>eat the fish to prevent overgrazing>symbiosis achieved>game doesn't recognise this because it's political slop and just respawns the predators whilst not respawning your food
>>740073374They still should.Notice how you never see any Columbine-style spree shootings in inner city schools? Only drivebys? That's because half the kids are armed and a shooter wouldn't make it out of the first classroom alive.
>>740073462>>740073483So the difference between crocs and gators goes beyond the jaws and teeth? Didn't know crocs were more dangerous until now, not like I'd let my guard down if I was anywhere near either. >alligators are just a smarter choice because you can make way more They reproduce faster, too?
>>740075667So that's why Floridians are so comfy around gators. They're not crocs.
>>740082556Those kids might look diverse, but they're colonizers who use WEAPONS to KILL innocent bugs and use their parts to make armor and more WEAPONS to KILL bigger bugs. They're basically hecking facists, and at such a young age :(. It's not even their back yard either, they're trespassing.
>>740063216if they didn't want violence in their games maybe they shouldn't have stuffed it full of hostile aggressive entities that constantly attack the fucking player
>>740077487So we got...>Right next to the Lifepod>In the middle of no where with the Collector>Along the edge of the mapSo we have two spots to build our base, one of of which is no where near power.
I just don't get the mindset of the devs. Why is self-defense so wrong? I get not wanting to add guns to your game, to make it more challenging, but if you can't even protect yourself with a knife or a pointy stick, and you demonize people who run away from monsters instead of letting themselves be killed, why even make a game? Just make a pretentious documentary about how you hate humans and want them to go extinct because muh climate change.
>>740084758If you kill your enemies...they win
>>740080064>whiteAsianSubnautica doesn't make white player charactersThe only white character they ever had was the fat one in below zero's trailer
where the actual fuck are the conduit crystals holy shit>>740085225>game only has either browns or asians(mostly brown ones too)yea no wonder humanity is going extinct
>>740084430Learn to cO-eXiSt with hostile enemy spawns, chud!
>>740083338I don't expect an Indian to understand
>>740063227>>740063216I'm confused about the backlash in the first place. Can't people just mod in being able to hurt/kill the fish right after the game launches? I assume it'll be among the first mods made...
>>740085493I don't need or want to understand why someone needs to force themselves to be murderously angry 24/7/365, I only need them to stay far away from me for my own safety.
>>740068518Yeah, but that's a stronk independent womyn, not a heckin chud. Feminism trumps gun control and violence against minorities in the lefty faith.
>>740063387>NOO YOU CAN'T KILL THE MONSTERSMonsters?
>>740064246>Not being able to kill is a good thing for the game. Stunning them temporarily is enough.No, it's a terrible decision. It takes away all agency for the player and makes every encounter into a bssic boring "swim away!" response.Before, eating smaller fish like nothing, being able to kill medium-sized predators, and then stun large leviathans meant that each encounter required different tactics, weapons, or devices to succeed. It helped reinforce you were a PART of the food chain, not the top or bottom, but a link in the chain. It was humbling, while not being unfair. Subnautica 2 just made the gameplay loop more boring and flat by removing ways to defend yourself. Them trying to lecture the plays with politics was just the icing on the cake.
I don't really care.Subnautica was fun. I'll give 2 a try when it's more complete. Anything else other than simply not playing it because it is not fun to you, is pure and unlimited faggotry.
>>740085783The modders did, and the developers complained about it >>740070634
>>740069181catfish would swallow you whole if they could
>>740084758They fundamentally don't understand either survival games and horror games. >>740083661Or biology. I actually think that avoiding weapons is the way to go, but >>740083267Because in the context of this game, it's incredibly stupid, and also worse than the first game.
>>740087592They're aggressively stupid, and making aggressively stupid public comments. Also you being a bitch about feedback to improve a game that's in EARLY ACCESS has gone even further beyond in faggotry. I don't want the game to be underwater Unreal Tournament, but the game in it's current state is a confused sack of shit, and the devs on their current course will make it worse than the first game.
>>740074093Bullshit. Fights are exiting, if you have an opponent who is actually dangerous, which the word "fight" should imply, otherwise it is just a hunt or a massacer. Being defenseless can add tension too, if a different kind of tension, but fighting is still the superior form of exitement. The reason the stasis rifle takes away from it is because it does the exact opposite of fighting: It gives you an easy way to get away from it, which completely nullifies the tension. It is a terrible example for why fighting is supposedly "less exiting" because it isn't an example for an actual fight to begin with. Idiot.
>>740079723I think it is great you can play as an ape now.
>>740063216>>740063227it's one thing to try and have the player be unable to kill the hostile fish, it's another thing entirely to not even give them the option of being able to fight back at all to deter them from continuing to harass you
>>740091103You already did that in the first game.
>>740088371>They fundamentally don't understand either survival games and horror games.Things that Subnautica devs despise because you can at least run away from the monsters, instead of being glued in place and forced to listen to a speech on current year politics?
>>740090991>which the word "fight" should implyYet it doesn't imply that.
When's Trident.
>>740063476they saw the trend of sales declining on their internals and are now panicking.If they have to provide this wordy bullshit to try and appease the chuds, they already ost. Considering their previous behavior over this, it's cute they think they can sway people now.
If they weren't fags about and just said>we wanted the gameplay to be avoiding or otherwise dealing with the fish without killing themfrom the start, it wouldn't be a problem.Now it's stuck in a space where on one side the devs were being retarded fags about this and on the other side, you now have several loud retards acting like games need to have killing in them to be good or that there haven't long been games in which you can't kill something going after you.
>>740070384Have you ever been camping in the woods? Nature is constantly trying to annoy you and steal from you and hurt you.
>>740095203Unironically yes. Did the devs ever camp? Do they even know biomes in real life are like a hundred times larger? Sheltered faggots.
> Make a creature that everyone hates.> Call it a NI***ERWhat did they mean by that?
>>740063253The original game, despite very restrictive, allowed for combat because even the non-weapon objects like drills and vehicles would obviously do damage if you attempted to use them against a fish. The sequel in early, along with the developer's words, made the world seem more annoying than hopeful because you can't even bruise a fish with the motor vehicle like you could in the original. I just assumed it was a "ITS A BETA THEY'LL FIX IT" problem, but they could have easily just made so that the game just doesn't react to your input anymore if it involves aquatic murder.
>>740063216Sorry, but us Whites dominate wildlife where ever we choose to go, it's our pure destiny and duty.
I do apologize if anyone has asked this before and for not lurking the entire thread for the answer but, how's the first game and will people simply go back to it?
>>740063540Don't ask them what they would think about the children if they knew who the parents were voting for.
>>740063216>any toxic gamer bro chuds who want to fight the killer fish should play something else, we don't want them playing our game anyway>fuck, the shareholders are calling, lemme take this>... uhhhhh actually killing fish is fine, you can kill them all if you wantthe absolute gall of these faggots
>>740063216>>“People have a little bit of a misunderstanding
>>740091479That, and, well, 90 percent of below zero. 1 was so much better at audio, at tension, at all sorts of shit.>>740093706My bro who bought the EA refunded. And it's more than justified. They want to make something other than what he wants.
>>740063227You don't just get to cite Silent Hill 2 as a reference point or inspiration if all you're going to say is, "We know better so we just removed this one tiny thing and made it even scarier!" Motherfucker the pipe doesn't solve every problem, and the pipe is supposed to be used like this if you want it to, that's the entire purpose of giving me the pipe. All I'm being told from all of this is that my own player character is too retarded to tie jagged sheet onto a monster fish's discarded tooth to make a self defense tool in a game with the Survival Crafting tag in it, and just accepts that the proper way to get along in this new world is to throw magical flares that distract every fish in existence for one minute and to kill myself 'morally' as a test for NOA.
