Forgive my retardationWhat is an immersive sim?I understand the immersive part of a game to "turn numbers into something more tangible".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim
>>740161362A dogshit game design that results in the most annoying people you know shilling the worst garbage imaginable.
>>740161362None of these(Ok mby SS2 but its a stretch)
we're 100% black
>>740161362It's when you can achieve your objective multiple ways. Like in Deus Ex there are 4-5 ways to rescue Gunter. You can do stealth, or be tanky and there are multiple entrances. Also doors can be picked, hacked or destroyed. In Half-Life you have a single path every time.
>>740161792Do you even know how to multiply?
>>740161796Is Gothic an immersive sim?
>>7401613621. multiple solutions/routes per map2. grid inventory management3. box stacking4. killer soundtrack5. vestigial stealth system
>>740161362The kind of game where you can put sticky grenades on a wall and continually jump on them to reach places you’re not meant to. The developers will leave it in the game and call it a "feature". And the player base will not stop talking about how great something like this is.
>>740161915Yeah, but like, they don't just leave it in, they make it part of the level and account for it. Like being able to LAM Flatlander Woman in the plane and save the leader she was gonna execute.
>>740161792100% NIGGANIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGA NIGGADEY DON'T LIKE US CUZ OUR DICKS IS BIGGA!
>>740161362a fake genre like when people say 'gacha games' gacha isnt a genre its a monetization method.
I hate the term “immersive sim” because it sounds absurdly pretentious and doesn’t really describe what you actually do in game. Hell, most of the games people call “immersive sims” don’t even fit the genre, like bioshock? You have less interactivity in that game than you do in duke3d and you really only have one way to tackle an objective: kill. I personally think immersive sim was a term coined by journos so they can continue to rag on FPS games while praising the ones they happen to like. >deus ex, system shock 1/2, arx fatalisAction RPGs >thief Stealth game >bioshock FPS >dark messiah Hack n slash >dishounored Bad
>>740161362it's a marketing term for a specific type of action/adventure game with tacked on stealth mechanics
>>740161362objective definitions of immersive sim are pretty retarded, all things considered. The genre is purely vibes based, you can tell it is an immsim when you play it but trying to describe it objectively is stupidfor example>>740161564>Its core defining trait is the use of simulated systems that respond to a variety of player actions, which combined with a comparatively broad array of player abilities allow the game to support varied and creative solutions to problems as well as emergent gameplay beyond what has been explicitly designed by the developer.[1] Vast majority of games considered great and classic examples of immsims are simply not dynamic enough to allow anything all that much beyond "what has been explicitly designed by the developers"Vast majority of immsims dont even simulate that much when it comes to AI and the map to begin with. There are games with infinitely more simulation and unpredictable interactive systems, AI, etc that are never called immsims because they just dont feel like the games called immsims.
>>740161362linear first person rpg
>>740161362Retards think it means LGS game or Arkabe game with some stealth. It actually means a game where player agency is achieved by having a bunch of interacting systems and mechanics that lead to emergent gameplay and creative problem solving. The whole point was to try to recreate the fun part of RPGs in video games, so trying to let players figure things out within the game world as opposed to just have stats and dice rolls.
>>740162397>It actually means a game where player agency is achieved by having a bunch of interacting systems and mechanics that lead to emergent gameplay and creative problem solving.this is way too vague. else you could say something like Noita or Scav Prototype are more of are an immersive sim to the highest caliber.there are 999 billion 'genres' where this is true. When i think about it, thats not actually what 'immersive sims' are about. They are about that except an extremely specific style of objectives and playstyles they focus on, with their games being inspired by eachother. As opposed to other games, that can often have even more player agency and even more interacting systems, but focus on completely different qualities/playstyles/settings/objectives etc, and as such never get called immersive sims
You know what at least "metroidvania" is not that vague
>>740162639>this is way too vagueNo it's not, because it's just a design philosophy and not a genre. Noita's mechanics absolutely fit into that definition.>When i think about it, thats not actually what 'immersive sims' are about. They are about that except an extremely specific styleThen you're wrong. I'm saying what the guys who came up with term said. Warren Spector said he first realized he wanted to make that kind of game during Ultima V playtesting, and Ultima V is nothing like Deus Ex or Thief.
>>740162868>Noita's mechanics absolutely fit into that definition.yeah, but nobody calls noita an immersive sim. And if you recommend noita to someone who really likes the immersive sim games, theres a high chance they will find it completely uncomparable and wont like it for the same reasons.>I'm saying what the guys who came up with term said.They did not have the hindsight of how games would be after way over a decade, theres no way to stick specifically to their definitions. If you asked them today, surely they would acknowledge a lot of contemporany games with even greater agency are completely different from their genre (ie: noita), as opposed to another newer game that is way more related to their genre (ie: deadeye deepfake)In practice, people pretty much always refer to things as immersive sims when they fit the specific fantasies and styles of the games that coined the term, rather than purely based on the player agency and interacting systems
faggot cohh carnarge kept trying to say crimson desert was an immersive sim, fucking retardedits just some nu zoom zoom language to describe every fucking game like claiming walking sims are an RPG because you have a +5 walk speed skill
>>740162276>Silent Hunter 3>it's a simulator>You immerse yourself as a submarine captain in the sea/ocean>not an immersive simretarded pseud term, QED
>>740163368>And if you recommend noita to someone who really likes the immersive sim games, theres a high chance they will find it completely uncomparable and wont like it for the same reasons.No, if they actually like immsim design they'll like it (roguelite mechanics aside). If they like LGS games, they might not like it.>If you asked them today, surely they would acknowledge a lot of contemporany games with even greater agency are completely different from their genre Wrong. He's talked about games like BotW being that style of game they described decades ago because it follows the design principles I've been talking about, whichare how they defined immsim. Nothing's changed despite you wanting to pretend it has. The type of design they talk about has always been consistent.>In practiceIdiots using words incorrectly doesn't change their definitions.
>>740161362Some guy said his game was "immersive" and also a "sim". This caught on as a genre name for some reason. At least that's what I can get from it-correct me if I'm wrong.It makes sense if you pay attention to Ultima Underworld being called that. But it's the same for any Ultima. Ultima is famous for devs marketing it as an immersive game that simulates stuff. Maybe it is. You can bake bread, day/night systems. They'd do it for Fable, etc. Now, Ultima Underworld is an FPS -and- an Ultima. Hence, a lot of FPS trying at doing these things got called immsims. This is why I look at the term and like >>740162639 I wonder if Noita or whatever isn't immsim. It could be marketed as le simulation, and immersive, after all. I call it Ultima-likes, DF, Noita, Fable (at least from the marketing), etc. However, we hear from devs who were inspired by Ultima Underworld specifically, that is why you hear a lot from games branched from that.
immersive sim means you can press the use button on a light switch and it works
>>740162276Dishonored is great and you should kys
>>740161362Why couldn't he just switch his tongue implant settings to make everything taste like orange?
>>740161362open world before it was open world
Immsims are first person.BOTW shares many common immsims features but nobody think of it as an immsim.It also can not be fully linear and it has to hide a fair amount of secrets, as such a game like FEAR isn't an immsim either. Two different players must have (on average) vastly different playthrough.These are the only two mandatory elements I believe, I'd classify SS2, KCD1 Stalker, TES games and VTMB as immsims.
>>740163727It's a Submersive Sim.
>>740161362First-person game that emphasises emergent nonscripted gameplay, nonlinear levels and interactive environments>>740161910Third-person, so no.
To me an Imsim just appears to be an FPS-RPG.
>>740164167go ahead and tell anyone that likes immsims that botw is an immsim and that they should paly it, see how it goes for you>yeah everyone uses these words like this except me. but im the one that knows what it means and everyone else is wrong okaythis is categorically not how language even works
>>740165850Wrong. They don't have to be first person.>>740167994BotW does get played and enjoyed by people who like immsims. It's been discussed in plenty of threads. No one at LGS ever said immsim means first person, and Warren Spector has spoke positively of BotW. Stop making assumptions about what him and his team have said and actually read and watch interviews.>this is categorically not how language even works>language evolves so you have to pretend people using terms wrong matterNo.
>>740166195First person isn't a requirement, Weird West took imsims to third person. Gothic still isn't an imsim, though, that game is mechanically locked down as hell.>>740167323It doesn't have to have fps or rpg elements. Thief wasn't much of an rpg, Weird West isn't first person, it is rare to find one without shooting but some of the imsim-lites could fit.>>740161362We can define it for you all we want but you won't understand until you play three or so imsim titles.It's not a genre in the way gamers and game developers use it (where a genre describes your most common actions), it's more of a design philosophy. In it, developers move away from hard-coded mechanical design to a looser systemic design with the hopes of 'increasing immersion'.As an example, in a game a dev might code a 'jump pad' that when the player steps on they get bounced to a predetermined spot. That's explicitly a mechanic revolving around the trigger 'when the player steps on'. An immersive sim looks at it more systemically. There's no reason it would be only the player, enemies should be able to use it too. For that matter, if a crate falls on it then that should be bounced as well. Now the player can, say, pick up an enemy with telekinesis and throw them into the jump pad to force them elsewhere. Then they toss a vending machine onto it and the vending machine flies into the enemy, crushing him.Imsims kinda suck to make because you have to rethink how you approach everything. What if they do X, what if they do Y? It lets play be more freeform like a tabletop campaign, but it's a bitch to structure and code
>>740168291>. No one at LGS ever said immsim means first personI never said that either. learn to follow a reply chain??
>>740170000Then why wouldn't you consider BotW an immsim?
>>740168291>No one at LGS ever said immsim means first personThey absolutely meant it. The immersive sim term is itself compounded from "immersive reality" and "dungeon simulation" which are both first person by requirement.
>>740169001>We can define it for you all we want but you won't understand until you playso it's a cult
>>740170648I know you're excited to post that image, but I've read it along with everything else the devs have publicly said and watched interviews and round table talks woth them. First person is how they like to make games, but it's absolutely not a requirement. You trying to put words into their mouths won't change that.https://youtu.be/eu042j_vSeE?si=SY6XvzylCvTR3jsvSpector talks about non-first person games and explicitly refers to them as immsims. Unless you can find Doug Church saying they need to be first person, then you're objectively wrong and the argument is over.
>>740161362I've heard it said that isims try to reward player choice as much as possible. Broadly speaking I guess part of that would be minimizing failure states as much as possible. Like allowing the player to take any path or complete the level however they want. But it's hard to pin down what makes isims different from any other game with multiple routes or playstles.
>>740171453Spector can suck my dick, he's not the arbiter of anything, and calling jap baby games like zelda an imsim is insulting. Games are made by more people than just the director, and just because someone's success got to their head doesn't mean I'll stop calling a spade what it is.
>>740171325It's category formation working as usual in non-autistic people.
an immersive sim is any game where you find a note that says >"hey jim, don't forget: the new combination to the weapon locker is 0451!"
>>740172936>he's not the arbiter of anythingWhich is why I said if you can find Doug Church contradicting him, you'd have a point. Otherwise, you're a retarded shit eating monkey that's arrogant enough to think you're objectively incorrect misinterpretation of their words matters. It doesn't, and you being butthurt about Japanese games won't change that.
>>740161362>Forgive my retardationNo, I don't think I will.
>>740161362>What is an immersive sim?a thinking man's fps
>>740171325It's just the required reading before someone can really talk about the subject.Most people think imsim means 'first person rpg with optional stealth' because that's what a lot of the formative titles picked for gameplay>>740172009Minimizing failure states is more of a side effect, but rewarding player choice is indeed a goal of the systems. More specifically it tries to promote 'emergent behavior' which ties into player choice and can only result when developers engage in systemic design instead of hardcoding mechanics. The player feels more immersed because they can fluidly interact with the world.There was a big moment that encouraged the design philosophy during the creation of Ultima VI (not an imsim). The developers made a puzzle that required a telekinesis scroll to throw a lever on the other side of a door, but one of the playtesters accidentally used up the scroll. He found a way around it, though, by taking control of the hero's mouse companion, squeezing under the door, and having the mouse throw the lever. Warren Spector went absolutely crazy when he found that out and started building to support those moments in Ultima Underworld (imsim forefather). The design philosophy/'genre' exists to support that sort of player choice, but there's no guarantee it always has to work out for the player>>740173247Gone Home really is the peak of imsims
>>740161362Immersive sim is an antiquated video game term like cRPG. Back then such terms were used because things were still new and innovative, and had to be specifically used to differentiate computer (c) RPGs from real life roleplaying games like D&D.
>>740173396Your appeals to authority only make you look like more of a cuck that can't think for himself, redditor
remember when we could call games where you play in the first person, explore a map, and shoot shit, a "first person shooter" and just be done with it?
Its a meaningless label created by psuedo intellectuals and game journos.
>>740175563"It's an odd existence but it's ours" isn't any more flavorful than a mouthful of table salt water. So I'm now officially what? You scream dead like it has a meaning but all I hear is highschool theatrics. But anyway key event triggered, thank you for wasting time getting here. Welcome to being the proletariat of cubic zirconia Nagasaki.>>>>>>>>>>And then we picked our ^son^ up from school early.NO IMAGE AVAILABLEMechwarrior you must track down the visitors in a machine barely larger than a man.
>>740165191wrong zoomhomo
$#^&%740175639Habitable Ringworld in solar system. Been waiting decades to type that. Cue the jazz remix. Du duh duh duh d u d u d u de d e d e da da
>>740173247So Resident Evil was an imsim all along...
>>740176124what?are you just typing out the header for random wiki articles with no context for anything?
>>740175883>>740176124These bots are on the fritz.
>>740161362immersive sim is when a door is locked and you can just blow it open with a grenade but it will alert nearby enemies. theres like non stop synthesis of basic game mechanics instead of curated cinematic action.
We're 100% black
The way I look at it, it's a game where you have multiple ways of interacting with the environment to solve issues in various ways.
>>740176983Is this the birth of an epic new meme?
>>740175563More in-depth vocabulary is necessary as more games get made and played.DOOM (the OG), Doom 2016, Deus Ex, Call of Duty 2, STALKER, FEAR, Condemned, Neon White, they're all first-person shooters but you wouldn't really say any of them are the same. Recommending one to fans of the others would come across as weird unless you were in a general FPS thread or there were some thematic similarities
>>740161362To me, a immersive sim is a game where the devs expect the player to use real world logic to solve things in the game, and not videogame logic.
>>740161362on a scale it goes like>shooter>action rpg>immersive sim>adventure game>walking simulator
game doesnt give you explicit solutions
Don't believe? It's all in the numbahs.Numbah One: That's terror
>>740173247immersive jim
>>740175230>muh logical fallacy>while trying to call someone else a redditor>and getting mad that the people who coined and defined a term don't agree with your retarded monkey headcanonYou're so stupid that it's almost impressive.
>>740168291>>740164167This brand of autism sounds familiar. Are you Nine-Box by any chance??
Deus ex is not an immsim. In one of the first missions of the game, you choose whether to charge a building with terrorists through the gate or infiltrate it. Instead, I stacked boxes to jump over the wall in the back and incapacitated everybody with gas and baton before navarre could kill anyone. However, the game still served me the "you're not afraid to kill" line because you only get the other line if you follow a scripted path to a hidden entrance. Deus ex in general is a highly scripted game with minimal emergent gameplay. I assume that back when the term was forged, games were more restrictive in the way in which they were played. Today, having a physics system, being able to pick up or break random objects is kind of taken for granted, but it was not typical back then. Since then, the term "immsim" has become anachronistic. So today, we can use it however we want to. I see three definitions:>game worked on or inspired by LGS peopleIdentifiable style, what most people mean. Not really a genre or design philosophy, more of a somewhat arbitrary lineage of games>fps rpgThe only option that would be an actual genre>simulation games (like dwarf fortress or any sufficiently autistic game)Only option that takes the "emergent gameplay" part seriously, but not really a genre
>>740179049I have no idea who or what the fuck you're talking about, but you sound retarded.
Everything core to immsims is just a default assumption of regular Stealth genre games.
>>740161362It's a lookingglasslike.
