The notion that Mario 64 is a better designed game than Spyro is built entirely on the fallacious presumption that "complex = better and simpler = worse" which has never been trueSpyro is a masterwork of focused design that never got the game design laurels it deserved
>The notion that Mario 64 is a better designed game than Spyro is built entirely on the fall-GLACK-GLACK-GLACK-GLACK-GLACK SLUUUUUUUUUUUURP
I love Spyro 1 but strongly dislike its sequels
>>740180841What did you mean by this
>>740180981It seems like he was about to quote the OP to disagree with him and argue in Mario 64's favor but got distracted by performing oral on a man
>>740180335This but Medievil.
>>740180335Post so gay you know the sloppy tippy is crazy
>>740180335that's cuz spyro sucks shit to control while mario controls like a dream
>>740181531This anon has not played either game
>>740181531Yeah, sure, but a game isn't just controls, otherwise you might as well just have a totally flat featureless plain to run around on.
>>740181531>mario controls like a dreamDoes he?>try to sight read a jump and do it without stopping to asses the best way forward >whoops camera changes and you miss>whoops invisible wall>whoops fucked collision fails to read your jump >whoops a ceiling/overhang pushes you out of the way >whoops wonky slope changes your momentum>whoops still have to stop to slowly climb this pole/vine >whoops wall jump slope sends you where you didn't want to go >whoops Mario punches/dives instead of grabbing the ledge >whoops non-obvious obstacle on the other side just pushes you back into the pit >whoops water level that has fuck all to do with the jumping The "dream movement" is almost unusable in the actual intended challenges where you'll either have to stop and do it the easy but unfun way, or autistically try over and over with a self-imposed challenge until you can do it the "cool" way, but not because it was designed well but because you decided to dedicate your limited time on Earth to learning all the quirks by heart (instead of being able to build up a skill that lets you handle new challenges with ease) instead of playing better games
>>740180981I believe anon is asserting that the distinguished gentleman who initiated this thread is a rather uncouth deviant of society, and is of such moral character that he commonly participates in acts of fellatio.
>>740180335I played Mario 64 for the first time as a child and Spyro for the first time in my late 20s. It’s impossible for me to judge them fairly with the nostalgia and I predictably prefer Mario.
>>740182450>whoops Mario punches/dives instead of grabbing the ledge... Does this nigga think you press B to grab ledges?
>>740182450Skill issue.
>>740181264Not with those controls and camera
>>740180335I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this thread before… and not only once…
>>740180335spyro is the super mario run of mario
>>740180335no one cares about your furry slop and no one ever willmario won this fight before you were born
Super Mario 64's graphics honestly feel like they were assembled out of place holder assets, with the real textures to be added later. Fucking horrendous art and design.
>>740182450whoops anon is a retard
>>740180335Spyro and Mario are completely different kinds of games, you are extremely low IQ
>>740180335Mario 64 even looks worse.
>>740183791Literally none of those are a skill issue and are squarely to blame on a badly designed and tested game, your lack of basic literacy is a skill issue though
>>740185123>have to stop to gauge an obstacle aheadDefinite skill issue. Maybe lemmings is more your speed
>>740180335Spyro is very fun to play, but most of its technological marvels are based around its visuals and audio. Mechanically it's very simple, you jump, glide, flame, and charge. Meanwhile Mario 64 is kind of a visual mess but its moveset is very complex and varied and allows for a lot of interesting interactions with the environment, so much so that it's still studied and expanded upon to this day. They're two similar games that took different paths to the hallowed halls of videogame history
>>740185234Lemmings requires even more gauging and thinking. You should've suggested tic-tac-toe.
Spyro is just kinda dull. I liked it as a kid, but it's very much a kids' game for kids. Mario is a kids' game that you appreciate more with age, because it keeps rewarding you for getting better at playing.
>>740185234Correct, you either have to stop and gauge it to do it the easy and unfun way, or you try to wing it with the "dream movement" and get hit by a badly designed obstacle that prevents whatever you had in mind, you're getting it
>>740185269>Mechanically it's very simple, you jump, glide, flame, and charge. Meanwhile Mario 64 is kind of a visual mess but its moveset is very complex and varied and allows for a lot of interesting interactions with the environment>fallacious presumption that "complex = better and simpler = worse" which has never been trueRead it three times
>>740185269I like the way that Mario 64 is a visual mess. I like how weirdly amateurish it is in places. It's charming.
>>740185346Hilarious statement given that Spyro has actually challenging skill based levels whereas Mario 64 is beatable by literal babies and all its challenges and "rewards" come entirely from deciding to make your own challenges for whatever inane reason you might have that you can't ascribe to the game design itself
>>740185493Spyro has snooze based levels
>>740185402How is it fallacious or a presumption to say that Spyro and Mario are both fun but in different ways?
>>740185352>>740185493You're just straight up wrong about this and making yourself look like a moron
>>740180335>The notion that Mario 64 is a better designed game than Spyro is built entirely on the fallacious presumption that "complex = better and simpler = worse" which has never been trueActually it's based on the notion that 3D platformers are factually better if they have more than a single jump type, more than walking down hallways, and plenty of verticality and obstacles. >Spyro is a masterwork of focused designNot really, not. Mario fucking 2 had more complex platforming. Spyro is a tech demo for walking around an open space using analog. Jumping is secondary.
>>740185625>emotion based response >no counter argumentIt's not looking good for you anon
>>740182450>Does he?Yup.
>>740185672>fallacious presumption that "complex = better and simpler = worse" which has never been trueRead it three timesNext you're going to say the NES Mario games suck because they only have one jump type and you only walk down 2D hallways
It's actually reasonably hard to get all of the stars in Mario 64. You don't need to do speedrunning shit to challenge yourself.
>>740185123>I don't understand the mechanics!>Should I learn them?>Nah it's probably all random RNG bullshit or sumthin, practice is for losers, if I can't do something first try I give up it's not my faultThank you for the zoomer manifesto
>>740185493>Spyro has actually challenging skill based levels whereas Mario 64 is beatable by literal babiesOther way around. Mario 64 has actual skill based levels wheras Spyro is beatable by literal fucking babies.
>>740185578It's fallacious to say that Mario is better designed because it's more complex, Mario 64 has ambitious ideas but Spyro is the better designed game by far
>>740180335nah sorry snoy spyro got croc mogged
>>740185762>>fallacious presumption that "complex = better and simpler = worse" which has never been trueFalse. It's not based on complexity, but variety. Mario jumping isn't complex. See: Actually it's based on the notion that 3D platformers are factually better if they have more than a single jump type, more than walking down hallways, and plenty of verticality and obstacles.
>>740180981It means he has the mentality of a small child and you hurt his feelings
>>740185834I didn't say that Mario is better designed or that it's more complex, I said that Mario has a more complex and varied moveset. I hope I don't have to explain to you the advancements that Spyro made since you seem to have created this thread and are so adamantly defending Spyro
>>740185860>False. It's not based on complexity, but variety. Mario jumping isn't complex.Same thing >See: Actually it's based on the notion that 3D platformers are factually better if they have more than a single jump type, more than walking down hallways, and plenty of verticality and obstacles.So it's based on your a priori presumption that you got from how Mario 64 is designed? Your reading comprehension is not reassuring anon
>>740185762>Next you're going to say the NES Mario games suck because they only have one jump type and you only walk down 2D hallwaysNo because NES Mario was the first ever platformer, and in 2D. I would never suggest this. If sequential Mario games never added variety under your superficial flawed reaaoning that "more = too complex for me" then Marios 2 and 3 wouldn't exists.
Spyro is literally poor man's banjo kazooie.Boring as fuck, i played it for the first time a few years ago and i was surprised to realize it's literally that, a weaker banjo kazooie in every level.
>>740185958You said that Spyro's marvels are about visuals and audio, when it was a marvel of game design since it was better designed and felt better to play than Mario 64 despite not having analog controls, which also implied Mario 64 had technological marvels for trying and failing to do a bunch of stuff
>>740186047Okay, how is Spyro better designed and how does it feel better to play than Mario 64?
>>740185968>Same thingNope. For example, currency has pennies, dimes, quarters, half dollars, etc. This isn't complexity, just necessary variety. Hope this helps.
>>740186103Because he grew up with only a Playstation and couldn't play anything else.
>>740186107I see you struggle with English seeing as it's your second language, I suggest you first spend more time immersing in native language content and building comprehension before trying to engage in serious discussion online
>>740186226If you need to end this discussion early due to personal issues that's fine. I'll still be here when you want to discuss this topic like an adult.
>>740180841https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGUIyLXadn8&t=22s
>>740184256Still infinitely better.
>>740180335The PS1 had a better library of 3D platformers than the N64
>>740181531>mario controls like a dream
>>740186546Rayman 1 alone is the most fulfilling retro platformer ever made
>>740180335Spyro #1
>>740185773What is there to learn about moving left and right? Basic movement is liquid shit in M64.
>>740180335spyro doesnt have any good songs
>>740180335Mario is popular because it managed to establish itself as baby's first game franchise, and the games have been safe and banal and catering to the lowest common denominator ever since. Mario is asynonymous with quality.
>>740186008>No because NES Mario was the first ever platformer,That would be Pitfall
>>740186740I was about to say this. Mario 64's soundtrack is iconic. I've never seen or heard anyone bring up any Spyro song when it comes to god tier vidya music.
>game makes you play as a gay purple dragon in a fruity fairytale wonderland with giant faggot pedophile adult dragonsNot touching that shit
>>740187025The adult dragons are only pedophiles in the remake
>>740187084No wonder a bunch of sony kids became huge bara faggots
>>740187187The dragons look normal in the original, it was the gay pedophile furries who turned the dragons into their sexualized OCs in the remake
>>740181531>spyro sucks shit to controlYou have never played Spyro.
>>740186970>>740186740Tasteless faggots. Spyro's OST is legendary. Meanwhile I can't name a single fucking memorable Mario 64 song.
>>740186103Because it gives you a handful of controls and builds the entire game around them, there are no hiccups like in >>740182450, in Spyro the best way to play is the most fun way which is the intended way. The entire game is designed around chaining your charges into flames or jumps and vice versa, when it wants to get more difficult it tightens the tolerances for those three that rely on your skill instead of introducing new mechanics that you have to stop to deal with or die repeatedly to in order to learn. It's built so that you never have to stop or control the camera or deal with gimmicky new mechanics that aren't used anywhere else.Meanwhile Mario 64 desperately needs a second analog for a camera, constantly stops you from using your jumps in a fun way, forces you into stupid shit like guessing chests underwater or using gimmicky powerups like flying or metal Mario which have nothing to do with your main playstyle, introduces slowly climbing poles or hanging from a wire mesh ceiling or moving platforms, clunky combat etc.It's best illustrated in the Spyro thieves vs the Mario monkeys>thieves are crazy fast and on a set path with defined platforms and jumps>to catch them you need to master the use your main three controls, running, jumping and flaming>you need to perfectly time your jumps, chain them into runs, and flame at the exact right moment in order to get them>if you try any funny shit like intercepting them they change direction or pivot to stop you from getting an easy win>this builds skills you'll use throughout the entire game and feels cool>the Mario monkey just runs around randomly on a flat area>to catch him you need to corner him or use the dive attack both of which are useless in the rest of the game>this means there's nothing to master, you either get randomly lucky or waste time building a skill you never need again>there's an additional stop and button press to drop him to actually finish>in the end it's just annoying
>>740180335I prefer my 3D platformers to have more than one jump. Spyro was good for an action game but a terrible paltformer.
>>740187708>instead of introducing new mechanics that you have to stop to deal with or die repeatedly to in order to learn. It's built so that you never have to stop or control the camera or deal with gimmicky new mechanics that aren't used anywhere else.Super chargingFlyingCannonsLight and timersExplosive barrelsI agree with the rest of it, though it's interesting to note that the exact examples you use to deride Mario 64 are things added in the following two Spyro games in order to stretch out its content
>>740186008>>740187948The only reason you're making that distinction for 3D is because Mario 64 had it, if it were the other way around you'd be praising how Mario 64 perfectly emulated the simplicity of the 2D games in 3D and how Spyro is overloaded with useless features (the way Mario 64's extra jumps are functionally useless without self-imposed challenges) This is easy to confirm given that almost every Nintendo game past the N64 gets praised for that exact thing, focused simplicity and tight controls and gameplay design, which can mean only one of two things>Mario 64 is badly designed according to the Nintendo standardor>you will call anything that Nintendo designs "correctly designed" regardless of how much you contradict yourself
>>740186546hard disagree, mario 64 had expressive freeform movementps1 plats only want you to play one way and one way only. they were the first movie games
>>740188097>Super charging>FlyingThese two directly tie into running and jumping/gliding, they are actually a fantastic example of powerups since they build on your existing moveset, require a higher skill level to control properly, but also give you more power by getting you places faster, letting you crush things, or jump farther in the case of charging, or letting you reach previously unreachable areas and enemies in the case of flying, and also build your skill with your basic movement. Meanwhile the powerups in Mario 64 don't do anything like that, they're basically new minigames that stop your momentum (literal and metaphorical), are irrelevant past their segments, and stick out lore sore thumbs. >CannonsCompletely optional and you interact with them using dashes and flames, which means you can chain your other interactions into them.>though it's interesting to note that the exact examples you use to deride Mario 64 are things added in the following two Spyro games in order to stretch out its contentExactly, and that's recognized by people who like Spyro who complain that the other two games are more adventure games than pure platformers, but this flaw is never admitted by people who like Mario 64
>>740188256I'm sorry you feel that way.
>>740188432Super Mario Bros only wants you to play one way and one way only, it was the first movie game
>>740188729>no counter argument>stock meme response Glad to see you understand you're wrong
You can't defeat a Nintendo fan on logical grounds. You have to speak their language: theology.
>>740188808Hmmm no. Nothing changed about my position, and I maintain it same as before, if not even stronger now.
>>740188770incorrect it had secret levels
>>740188950This but sony fans.
>>740188716How is flying in Mario a gimmicky minigame but flying in Spyro a masterful extension of the basic moveset? Super charging and flying are the definition of gimmicks since you only use charging in 3 levels and flying in 5 out of place time attack levels that are designed to use flying and flying only, they don't resemble anything like normal gameplay. Flying and super charging are irrelevant past their segments>cannonsYou need the cannon to blow up the rock in the Peace Keepers home world and access the rest of the level. And the jester timers, light mechanic, and explosive barrels are all new mechanics that only appear in one level each and force you to restructure how you interact with the game
>>740189030Thank you so much for this post anon
>>740180879Agreed, classic case of "crap we ran out of ideas so just shove a bunch of extraneous game mechanics and minigame shit in to make up some content" that a lot of sequels fall into. Crash 3 was like this too but I think the Spyro games got it really bad. I played through the trilogy when that remake came out and I couldn't believe how bad Spyro 3 aged.Also Elora is ugly as sin in both the original and in the remake. The only reason some people simp over her is because all of her fanart is off model and looks nothing like her.
>>740188770This but unironically
>>740187683yet you didn't provide a single one, yet everyone who reads this post now has the Star get track playing in their head.
>>740180335every level in spyro is a circle with almost no verticality, even the op image shows how much mario mogs it you jump in a cannon shoot yourself anywhere in the level climb a mountain to fight a bomb king and thats just the first star i genuinely feel bad for kids who only had spyro to play with
>>740189374Close but no. You presented me with opinions on my character, not facts. That's a fallacy btw.
>>740189319>How is flying in Mario a gimmicky minigame but flying in Spyro a masterful extension of the basic movesetBecause you never fly in Mario, whereas flying in Spyro is just gliding except in all directions, when you fly in Mario it's a completely new way of controlling him that doesn't utilize your previous skill, and doesn't build future skill, whereas flying in Spyro is just an extension of gliding, you already got a taste of it and you can use your existing intuition for control, getting used to the more trickier flight controls makes regular gliding feel easier. >Super charging and flying are the definition of gimmicks since you only use charging in 3 levels and flying in 5 out of place time attack levels that are designed to use flying and flying only, they don't resemble anything like normal gameplayThey're not, they're areas where your usual skillset of regular charging and gliding are put to the test in extreme conditions, you're going faster/in more directions, have less room for error, tighter win conditions and control tolerances, it's the most fundamental way of increasing challenge possible >And the jester timers, light mechanic, and explosive barrels are all new mechanics that only appear in one level each and force you to restructure how you interact with the gameThey mostly force you to rethink your approach with the basic moveset instead of falling into auto-pilot, as opposed to introducing dumb new controls or challenges like swimming, steering koopa shells, walking with a metal cap, sliding, guessing chests underwater on a timer, standing still on moving platforms etc in Mario 64
>>740182450>luckily spyro controls like a go-kart and has zero interesting interactions with the environment so none of this is an issue for him. checkmate.
This thread is a wild read, it's really interesting to me the things different gamers value differently.
>>740189926>You presented me with opinions on my characterI didn't though
>>740189754Verticality and more than a single jump type (common platforming mechanic circa lost levels) is too complext for some people.
>>740189945>when you fly in Mario it's a completely new way of controlling him that doesn't utilize your previous skillheaven forbid a game asks you to learn something new. the retards might get confused if they have to adjust themselves. good point.
>>740189993>>740188256You did. This isn't debatable btw, it's on record.
>>740189754>>740190014It's not that there's no verticality in Spyro, it's that Mario levels are a lot smaller than Spyro levels. Spyro moves much faster and can jump much farther, so things are more spread out. But Spyro doesn't have much vertical movement in his moveset, so gaining vertical height is actually an important part of traversing the level, it's more like the solution of a puzzle rather than just another tool in your moveset. I can think of multiple examples in Spyro where the problem in a level is figuring out how to gain enough vertical height to reach an area, or even when vertical height is used as a weapon against you. Mario 64 just isn't that well designed in the regard, they can't put simple but interesting obstacles in your way because the tools they gave you trivialize everything so they have to do hard walls like cages and shit
I wish I could play Spyro 1 with Spyro 2's controls (minus the hover). I'm doing my yearly replay of the Spyro games and I always find it jarring how slippery and weird it feels to run around in the first game. It's still my favorite of the three, but I kinda can't wait until I finish it and move onto Ripto's Rage. As a kid that one was my favorite.
>>740190119No there's far more levels in Mario 64 where gaining height is the specific goal and isn't at all trivialized by having multiple jump variety. You didn't play either game it seems.
>>740187708>Meanwhile Mario 64 desperately needs a second analog for a cameraPress R, retard
>>740189620Alpine ridge my nigga
This thread is wild. It's almost like controlling a bouncy wahoo guy is different than controlling a quadruped beast and that each game's levels are designed around their respective character's movesets. Crazy. But I guess since they're both 3D platformers they must be compared apples-to-apples, much in the same way that I will proceed to debate Mario Kart vs. Forza.Anyway. Mario is just plain fun to control, even bouncing around the castle grounds with no enemies around is still fun. Spyro's not like that but the levels and atmosphere and exploration are still 10/10.
>>740190291>there's far more levels in Mario 64 where gaining height is the specific goalName some of them>and isn't at all trivialized by having multiple jump varietyIt's literally so easy that there's an entire genre of gameplay involving beating levels without using the A button, and they've gotten almost every star by playing this way. You can beat Mario 64 100% in 90 minutes. 120 stars in 90 minutes. The moveset that the game gives you trivializes any sort of platforming challenge that it could introduce, that's why it introduces gimmick stars instead that make you do random bullshit that isn't platforming
>>740190452>But I guess since they're both 3D platformersEh, platformers usually have multiple jump types. Spyro is a 3D action game with platforming segments. Basically a tech demo for PS analog.
>>740190583>Name some of themFirst you'll have to provide a list of the levels you were referring to. >It's literally so easy that there's an entire genre of gameplay involving beating levels without using the A button,Uh no, that requires TAS level expertise and frame perfect input management. It's the exact opposite of easy. >You can beat Mario 64 100% in 90 minutes. 120 stars in 90 minutes.Sure lets do this: show us your completion time. It's so easy you did that, right? You should try playing either game or watch pannen's videos before forming opinions on these subjects.
>>740190452The point is that the bouncy wahoo guy game is badly designed according to its ambition, compared to the quadruped beast game which fully delivers on its ambition and is masterfully designed
>>740190106Point out the attack on your character
>>740191069And I contend that point since Mario 64 is the superior platformer and one of the best 3D platformers ever designed.
>>740190617>>Eh, platformers usually have multiple jump types. Spyro is a 3D action game with platforming segments. Eh platformers usually have you do platforming challenges instead of irrelevant shit like catching monkeys or guessing chests underwater, Mario is a 3D action game with platforming segments
>>740191125Sure I'll do that for you a second time. In this post >>740188256 you attack my character and motives and not my argument. That's an ad hominem. Hope this helps.
>>740184507based
>>740191275Point out the attack anon, I don't see it in that post, quote me the words that made you feel under attack
>>740191251*yawn*
>>740191175Feel free to make an argument for it, here are some fun posts you can try responding to and addressing >>740182450>>740187708>>740188256
>>740191343No thanks.
what an obnoxious prick
>>740191414I alteady responded to these posts.
Spyro 1 is great but 2 and 3 are a slog to play. I think they should've dropped 90% of the minigames, made spyro a little older and give him bigger wings, and made levels have more focus on flying, as in he would no longer glide but be able to fly for a short amount of time to traverse maps.
>>740190065It can ask you to learn something new, but when there's too many of those things and they don't tie into the main gameplay, you get a badly designed directionless game that doesn't know what it's doing and constantly stops momentum and interrupts the player in order to show them some random new shit they didn't buy the game for
Everyone who praises Super Mario 64 never got far enough to see how shit the level design becomes in the later levels.
>>740191513I'm sorry you feel this way.
>>740191703But that's one of the best and most difficult levels in a platformer ever made. What's wrong with it?
>>740191703I think it's really funny how much of SM64 praise boils down to "it's really fun to move around in the castle grounds", almost like they never really figured out you can go into the paintings and experienced the fact half the levels are downright shit
>>740191876Nah Mario 64 has amazing levels. The hub world was just the cherry on top.
>>740191960It has 2-3 good levels, a handful of solid ones, the rest are unmitigated shit, you have to be willfully ignorant to deny it
>>740191748It's just assets placed randomly. This level has the same problem too. There's no design to these levels.
>>740191006>Artisan's home world where you have to glide perfectly from the top of the little hill to the platform with gems on it>Town Square where you have to stand on a nondescript platform and glide around a building in order to reach the upper half of the level with the egg thief>Dry Canyon reaching the upper areas of the canyon by gliding around corners>Cliff Town reaching the cliffs across the river>Ice Cavern reaching the secret platform with the extra lives>Doctor Shemp reaching the lone rock outside of the boss arena>Magic Crafters home world with the green mages who raise the ground to block your path and dodge your attacks>Alpine Caves where more green mages do the same>High Caves reaching the far off platform with the egg thief>Wizard Peak reaching the upper areas of the buildings where gems are held just out of your reach and the wizards attack you from above>Terrace Village reaching the roofs of the buildings by gliding long distances from an entirely different part of the level>Misty Bog where you need to figure out how to gain enough height to glide to different sections of the bog>Tree Tops where you need to figure out how to gain enough height to glide to the far off platforms where the colored thieves have hidden themselves>Metalhead where you have to figure out how to reach the gems scattered across the roof tops>Dream Weavers home world where you need to take a roundabout path to reach the cannon in the center of the map and also utilize jesters to raise platforms>Dark Passage is entirely vertical where you climb the level and then glide down to parts of the cave that were previously unreachable>Lofty Castle is all about freeing fairies who give you enough height to reach more parts of the level>Haunted Towers has an infamous challenge involving using the super charge to launch yourself all the way to the back side of the tower>Jacques utilizes more jester timers to manipulate platforms and gain heightNow you do Mario
>>740191414Stop linking posts that already got BTFOTry to come up with arguments or stop posting, this is lazy bait
>>740192027I disagree.>>740192278No they're definitely placed coherantly and with purpose.
>>740191748Everything in both Mario and Spyro is baby shit compared to even the third level in Rayman 1, I don't know why you think Rainbow Ride is some sort of rite of passage
>>740192278Wrong.
>>740191703>>740191876>Rainbow Ride>BadIts the ultimate filter. The more you learn to use Mario's moveset to avoid using the carpets, the better it feels.
Why are Spyro fans trying their hardest to turn into another inferiority complex fanbase? Its well liked and nobody I've seen has directly compared Mario to Spyro they have completely different appeals. All you're doing by acting like a fag is making normal people want to hate Spyro.
>>740180335>>740191069You have your theory backwards. You don't start by analyzing how a game is designed to determine if it's good, you start with how fun the game is and then analyze its how it's designed to unpack why it's fun. SM64 is more fun than Spyro and that can't be challenged by analysis.
>>740191703>oh no, not actual platforming challenges in my platformerBro, it's the last world. It's supposed to be hard.
>>740192350
>>740180335people who obsess over m64 are troons;people who obsess over spyro are furries.
Why are you comparing Spyro to Mario 64 (a years older game that it wouldn't even exist without copying) and not something like Banjo Kazooie?
>>740192810>You don't start by analyzing how a game is designed to determine if it's good, you start with how fun the game is and then analyze its how it's designed to unpack why it's funBut that's what Super Mario 64 glazers have been doing for 30 years, claiming you have to know about the design, learn all the moves, the tricks, make your own fun, know how games before SM64 handled, watch all the video essays, etc, meanwhile I explained why exactly Spyro is such an effortlessly fun and satisfying experience to anyone that picks it up and doesn't realize what's happening behind the scenes to cause that.
>>740192930Almost none of those involve verticality as a problem to be solved. The movement itself is just a footnote to the actual goal of the star, it's not the focus of the game or the challenge. Name the starts where the platforming specifically is presented as the challenge and not "oh get here and then do this gimmick"
>>740192772
>>740192772Yeah, Sonic fans are very good at this too. They can't just say they like Sonic Adventure. They have to immediately start slinging shit at Mario. It's especially frustrating when you played and liked all of these games when you were a kid.No, Mario 64 does not have a "bad camera", or "jank controls". You're being a bitch, and you know you are. Yes, the Knuckles and Rouge stages are kind of boring, and I'm not apologising.
>>740191876When you go into the levels it's still fun to move around. Mario doesn't start controlling like a slug or anything.
>>740192772Why do Mario fans keep appealing to popularity as their only argument? All they're doing is alienating anyone who's not normalfag cattle
>>740193096I disagree.
>>740192772Not OP but I've seen the Mario vs. Spyro sentiment a few times, retarded as it may be. Some guy once tried to argue that Mario's levels are physically larger than Spyro, despite many Spyro levels involving far off platforms that you have to figure out how to reach.Also, the Reignited Trilogy inflicted a mortal wound upon the series by overwriting the revolutionary technology and breathtaking art and music with Indian content mill slop. Anyone who wasn't around to experience the originals see the remasters as indicative of the series, and the remasters are horrid bastard children
>>740193037The funny part is right is how you move around in spyro
>>740193037Wrong, people have been having fun playing SM64 casually since it came out. The analysis of SM64 is a reaction to how much fun people have playing it.
>>740193208How do you disagree? And list examples that led you to this conclusion
>>740180335>mogs both gamesYour move OP
>>740193018Because his entire purpose is trolling Nintendo fans, not having a rational discussion, and Banjo is a "safe" nintendo title for him because it's not made by Nintendo so he's doesn't carry an irrational a bias against it.
>>740193161But he does>you move like shit in the underwater diving level>you have to keep stopping in levels with moving platforms which feels like shit>you have to keep interacting with non-platforming segments like Metal Mario, climbing poles, slip and slides, etc >you have to stop to evaluate jumps or adjust the camera when the camera fights you >etcAll those things serve to undo any fun you might have had actually using the moveset in the levels themselves
>>740193163I'm not appealing to popularity. I'm appealing to the game being fun, and rewarding mastery in a way that keeps you having fun even as you come back to the games as an adult. In my country Mario wasn't even very popular. Crash was popular.
>>740180335I have more fun with Spyro but Mario 64 is simply more interesting in its mechanics.
>>740193276No thanks. I only need you and your fragile ego to be aware that your opinion is contended. Explaining why has no benefit to me.
>>740193437I accept your concession of defeat
More like Spyro the Faggin', am I right? LOL
>>740193163I have no issue alienating people. It's a 30 year old game that is one of the most popular well liked games ever. I will mention this fact in these discussions, and you'll have to just endure it.
>>740193262You're treating this is an a priori statement when it's actually circular reasoning
>>740193037>have to know about the design, learn all the moves, the tricks, make your own fun, know how games before SM64 handled, watch all the video essays, etcYou figure out which button is jump then you're good to go. Literally just move around and you learn the game as you play, by the time you reach the later levels you can do longjumps, wall jumps, backwards jumps etc. it's very intuitive which is why it's so easy and fun for people of all skill levels
>>740193492I'm not conceding any ground. Sorry, I maintain my position.
Damn Mariofags genuinely didn't bring any arguments? Did all those essayists lie to me about Mario 64..
>>740182450>Does he? Yeah, still the best in 2026. Playing spyro feels like driving a loaf of bread in comparison.
>>740193610Failing to exposit on your idea in order to reinforce it against scrutiny is a concession of ground and an abandonment of the idea you were representing because you have deemed it to be no longer defensible
>>740193037Don't ever try to play a fighting game. Or any kind of RPG that expects you to learn strategy.
>>740193609Which is why Mariofags had to spend 30 years telling people they're playing the game wrong, that they should first learn how platformers played before Mario 64, watch all the necessary essays, learn all the bugs and quirks, read the movement manual..
>>740185269Exactly, why can’t you just enjoy two different games in a similar genre these days? Everything has to be one thing versus another
>>740193668>ignore every argument in the thread
>>740193668Don't need to. Mario 64 is already an established GOAT. We may do nothing at all and nothing is required of us.
>>740193750>WhataboutismI accept your concession.
>>740193750No one is saying you need to learn bugs to have fun.We are saying you will have a lot more fun if you at least know how to do a long jump and a side flip, and you play around a little. I have seen exactly zero essays on Mario 64. I play games. You wouldn't get it.
>>740180335How many dragon dildos do you own
>>740193163NTA but the popularity of Mario is the only reason you would try to make the [3D Platformer] vs. Mario argument in the first place. Spyro has much more in common with Banjo Kazooie than SM64, but no one's going to get attention with a thread like "my favorite Sony platformer is better than Banjo Kazooie" because no one cares.>>740193253>controller with 2 analog sticks>you still move the camera with the shoulder buttonsThey were so close.
>>740193704I disagree.>>740193750You're having an episode right now. Run your hands under cold water and calm your breathing.
>>740185901>>740181190These
>>740193587Wrong again. There is a fact of the matter that someone experiences some quantity of fun when playing a game. This is true regardless of whether they understand design theory or not. Theory is an attempt to explain the whys of experience, not to dictate what we should experience. People obviously think SM64 is fun. It has one of the highest reputations of any video game. The question of theory is to ask why do people find it fun. Someone might posit the idea that SM64 is fun because of some specific jumping mechanics or whatever and someone else might challenge that hypothesis. But that challenge is only to the explanation of why SM64 is fun. It isn't a refutation that SM64. No matter how hard you analyze or how many flaws you think you've found, it's fallacious to draw the conclusion that SM64 isn't fun. Because the question isn't IF SM64 is fun, it's WHY it's fun.
>>740193808Yeah it's crazy they have to ignore every argument in the thread and just go "well uhh Mario is more popular take that!", I genuinely thought they'd be able to put forward some actual arguments to defend SM64's status
>>740181531never once playing 64 did a normal person new to the game (even back in that era) say "boy this controls like a dream". RaC or Crash do as far as 3D games go
>>740194134It's the platforming. It's just the bees knees. Tiktok clock, rainbow ride....chefs kiss
>>740193928That is not what whataboutism is
>>740194254>Irrelevant ESL gibberishI accept your concession.Concession counter: 2
>>740194134Again, your claims are not a priori truths, you actually need to back them up with something, refer to these posts to learn what that looks like >>740182450>>740187708>>740188256
Mario 64 is better by default because of the year it ca me out. why in the fuck would i be playing Spyro when FF7 was already out and MGS1 was coming in a few weeks? Mario 64 is the last platformer i ever needed.
>>740194195>>740193904And now that you've doubled down and made it clear your entire goal is to just waste people's time writing essays on a 30 year old game I'm going to dismiss your arguments even more so.
Damn Mariobuddies are genuinely crashing out due to lack or arguments, crazy sight
>>740194328He doesn't need to to anything for you. Mario 64 is the better game regardless. It's your job to prove otherwise and you suck at it.
>>740194328"a lot of people think SM64 is fun" is not a priori knowledge.
>>740194389Didn't need any arguments.
>>740189620no i have the jolly roger bay/dire dire docks songs in my head now
>>740194415"A lot of people think Spyro is fun", what now?
>>740194401If that were true then it would be incredibly easy for you to refute those posts, yet you can't for some reason..
>>740194516Spyro is fun. It's one of the better 3D platformers of the 5th gen.
>>740194516You're wrong and also most likely transgender
>>740193978If you actually read the thread you'd know it was about pointing out how Spyro earns Mario 64's reputation but doesn't have it, and how Mario 64 doesn't earn it but has it anyway
knowing that games as fun and cool as these will never come out again makes me want to cry sometimes
>>740194585>>740193437
>>740194415see >>740194643
>>740194401>>740193437
>>740194686No, Mario 64 definitely earned it's reputation.
>>740193225Oh yeah I'm sure its come up here and there thats just /v/ being /v/ but it seems like recently its gotten to the point where every time I come onto /v/ theres a Spyro thread whining about how much people like Mario more. I get that it gets (you)s when you do this shit but man if you genuinely care about how the game is perceived you're not doing it any favors when you act like this. I like to give autists the benefit of the doubt but maybe he just really wants the attention that badly. Shame about the remaster; many such cases. The least these soulless devs could do is include the option to swap to the old graphics. Its not like that hasn't been done before.
>>740194629Why are you in this thread
>>740194686I read the thread and it seems to be mostly you sperging out while anons dismantle your arguments
>>740191748There's two kinds of hard anon. There's hard because it's a decent challenge and there's hard because it's filled with frustrating bullshit. Rainbow Ride is in the latter category. Plus the 100 coin challenge is frustrating bullshit
>>740194878Because SM64 is more fun, therefore it is better designed.
>>740194838As the most overrated game of all time? Absolutely, it's just a janky tech demo
>>740194905I disagree.
>>740194902You were reading your own posts anon..
>>740194942I disagree.
>thread devolved into autistic shitflinging and schizo baiting >all because SM64fags couldn't refute a couple of posts calling out SM64's flaws and highlighting how Spyro successfully solves them Damn so is Spyro actually the better designed game? If Mario defenders could refute it they would, instead they're throwing tantrums and having autistic breakdowns
>>740195172>>740193904
>>740195172Spyro is a Mario 64 clone that came out two years later, what are you trying to prove little xis?
>>740195172Why do you insist on grandstanding every time someone disagrees with you? There isn't an audience here. You don't have a chat watching you.
>>740195329Whenever a sperg like this gets BTFO he feels a compulsion to make a non sequitur post in order to "control the narrative". It's very common in this particular form of autism and they'll often samefag that post in agreement.It becomes easy to notice once you're aware of it
>they're still doing itGod damn, Spyro is genuinely the better game, I can't believe it
>>740194217No, Crash is slightly stiff, if anything.
>>740194389I made my argument hours ago. You can read the thread, if you want to stop being a numpty.
>>740195843Mario 64 is actually the better game. That's why you're still doing this >>740180335 and I'm not doing anything at all.
>>740196032You're doing something right now
>>740196110Sure.
This guy has been on this one man crusade to prove Mario 64 is a bad game for years...
>>740184552It's liminal.
If Spyro is so deep and complex how come it doesn't have a big community of autists dissecting every single part of it's gameplay and finding the most insane and unthinkable gameplay techs from it's base systems?
>>740196942The very first sentence in the OP says that Mario's qualities are attributed to the fallacy of thinking "complex = good" anon...
>>740197049how is that a fallacy? More stuff to master makes game more fun. More engaging.
>>740196942spyro only looks coolermario 64 has gameplay more complex then charge/float to solve every issue easy ass dragon game for kids. a single star of sm64 has more advanced tech than an entire playthrough of spyro.
>>740197092Behold the greatest game of all time
>>740197341no, because that's a pretty mechanically simple game.
It's only a hard platformer because mario cant turn or slow down and has a camera that can't follow instructions
Making it a contest is for faggots and Crash is superior anyway.
>>740197436It's obviously far more complex than any Mario game, therefore better
>>740196942Because Spyro is programmed to have a single jump and can run, with other gameplay elements being simple powerups and melee attacks. As far as platformers go it's similar in mechanical depth to SMB 1985. If you hold X your character jumps higher. If you tilt the stick forwards your character moves faster. That's the entire depth of that game's platforming. Nothing to dissect.
>>740197457Everything you said is wrong. Spyro has a more cumbersome turning circle. He operates like a car.
>>740197497Not really, no. Xenoblade also isn't a bad game. I don't know what you're grasping at.
>>740197049The very first sentence in the OP says that Mario's gameplay depth = complexity = bad thingWhich is objectively false btw.
>>740197557Sakurai would be proud >>740188256
>>740197618It is though, refer to >>740197092
>>740197049Behold, the greatest game of all time. Your inputs are "up". This game also features another input we call "down". Should be simple enought for spyro fans to enjoy.
>>740182450To be fair, Super Mario 64 requires an extremely high IQ to appreciate.
>>740197624Nope, that's not what it says, work on your reading comprehension
>>740197827Yeah, Xenoblade is something of a simplistic RPG. It could be better. It's not bad.
>>740197840
>>740180335I played Mario64 for the first time about a year ago on a emu, and i don't understand what is the hype about this game, its boring and the controls sucks, its unplayable mess.The music is kinda lit tho.
>>740197882And yet clearly far more complex than Mario therefore better
>>740197879Nope it's exactly as OP said. I can read just fine.
>>740197959Nope, you're out of your depth here anon, work at it and try again in a year or two
>>740197497>>740197941Nope you're just confusing graphical clutter for something else entirely. Everything that happened during that webm was a cutscene playing by itself after an input was selected.
>>740197840I'm going to blow your mind for a second time by explaining to you that "complex does not equal good" does not immediately imply "simple equals good".Are you going to post any additional retarded shit or can we stop here?
>>740197572I said nothing about Spyro
>>740198013Nope I'm perfectly within my depth. I'll stay and continue participating as much as I feel like. Thanks though.
>>740198083It's not graphical clutter, that's the HUD informing the player about the various complex mechanics going on in the game, which is clearly superior to every Mario thanks to them
>>740198130>complex does not equal goodI didn't say it was. It said spyro was lacking platforming features like multiple jump styles, not complexity. Multiple jump styles is normal and expected of platformers since the mid to late 80s.
>>740198151Hmmm no. I never said spyro needed a complex HUD. That's a bad analogy.
>>740197941it isn't
>>740197497>>740197941you know, i actually agree when it comes to complexity but is Xenoblade really your best example?
>>740180335Mario's main appeal which some people don't seem to understand is the specific physics that Mario has basically always had since SMB1. That is his kind of heavy momentum and slipperiness. This is and will always be the main appeal of Mario 64 as they translated that perfectly into 3D.Now is Mario 64 a better designed game? No it really isn't. A lot of the stars are boring and you have to exit and reenter the level each time to do them which often makes the game feel tedious. The more complex movement is often wasted as a result.Compared to Spyro which (despite being more collectathon-ish) is far more sleek and fun to just blast through more than it's other contemporaries like BK as well.Really Banjo is the one that just kind of sucks and has neither the physics complexity of Mario nor the speed and focus of games like Spyro and Crash.
>>740198357Wrong reply chain?
>>740198635Nope I replied to the right person.
>>740198446see >>740197092
>>740180335Spyro has way better world level/world design, and better music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvFRWKklC6c&list=PLA6ECEC231DE28F97https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAqo0g74zUshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCcCDuyJhshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q57LeVABGM
>>740198669Then you appear to suffer from schizophrenia
>>740180841fpbp
>>740198748Unfortunately for you I still stand by my statement.
>>740198687Xenoblade is less mechanically complex than Mario. Xenoblade is just a series of binaries>is the enemy in or not in this particular state?
what the hell is a spyro
>>740198712Sounds terrible honestly. That's the best they could pull off with CD Rom?
>>740198712Looks like Care Bears.
>>740198997Unlike Mario which looks like Mario (a brand for toddlers)
>>740180841FpbpSpyro cucks btfo Trvke NUKE
>>740199028Mario looks surreal and interesting.
>>740199028You sure about that? Just a second ago you said Mario was too complex for you.
>>740199167>broo are those stock photos?? that's so liminal
>>740198602That's why you play DK64 which has the best of all worlds
>>740199216unironically yes. It's iconic.
>>740198925>poor tender brain trapped in his childhood tendo cacophony.I'm not really surprised by your lack of taste tender fag.
>>740199364Circular logic
>>740198712That's just assets placed randomly
>>740180335Spyro is not as good as mario 64, but it's actually 3D, unlike shit like banjo, crash, etc..That put it a mile ahead or two.
>>740199448Are you talking about this? --> >>740191703
>>740199412it has a distinct affluence.
>>740199559Oh that's COMPLETELY different!
>>740199649More like hoodwinked flatulence
>>740199468>Banjo isn't 3DWhat the fuck are you talking about?Did you play Donkey Kong Country and think it was Banjo?
i just don't understand platformer fags. did you retards not move onto better things when you were 6 or 7?
>>740199468>Spyro is not as good as mario 64That's because it's better
>>740199791I moved on from Spyro, which is in fact a kids' game. Mario is for all ages.
>>740199382Good to know.
>>740199174You are aware of the distinction between visuals and gameplay? Or is that too complex for you
>>740199559He just got you concede that argument without you knowing or realizing lmao
>>740198897Mario is less mechanically complex than MarioMario is just a series of binaries>is Mario bing binging or wahooing
>>740199896see >>740199896
>>740199868Mario's gameplay is too complex for you. I'm aware.
>>740199923>mindbroken
>>740199896not really. >>740199448>>740199704>>740199896also, same fagging.
>>740200051Nah different people dunked on you just now.
>>740199559>No counter argument I accept your concession.Concession counter: 3
>>740200034It appears that you are
>>740200051Nah
>>740200145>>740200118>>740200051>>740199972You have like 200 replies left before 500. It's far too early to just admit you were trolling the entire time.
>>740200118Thank you for your service in making Nintendo fans appear like absolute schizophrenics, your sacrifice towards the cause is appreciated
>>740200259And now you're samefagging
>>740200095Is that- oh no no no no
>>740200095
>>740200259>AdhomI accept your concession.Concession counter: 4
>>740200095>STOP SAYING MY GAME IS WORSE THAN YOUR GAME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
>>740200169>phonefag>phone on 5%>watching kiketube piperadicate every piece of faggot shit zoomer off this board jesus christ
>>740200353Thank you soldier
>>740200169also pay your fucking phone bill
>>740200357it's not, thoughever
>>740200095Got em
>>740200169Also put out the charger from ur switch and charge ur phone faggot, what u gonna do when ur mom calls you and u wouldn't be able to pick up when your phone shuts down??
>>740200621she won't even pay his phone bill for him she doesn't want to call that retard
>>740200396>>740200438>>740200621It's 2am ain't no one calling me and I'll charge my phone once it hits 2% don't worry I'm good at this
>>740198712I think the graphics are better but that soundtrack was genuinely awful wtf
>>740181531spyro controls wonderfully. it's only real problem is it's stuck with fuck ugly ps1 graphics. that kind of adds to the charm but in a better universe it came out on n64
>>740180335they're both good. I wish they were still making decent 3D platformers. We haven't had a 3D Mario platformer in almost a decade (Odyssey was 2017!), and Spyro hasn't had a proper game since Spyro 3 in the year 2000, and even that game isn't as good as Spyro 1. There are some really good indie games in the last few years, like Pseudoregalia, Big Catch Tacklebox, Valkyrie Saga. But I really wish we had more than just a few indie devs actually trying to make a decent game.
>>740180335>3D platformer>designed from the ground up for a directional pad, not analogAnd this lackluster feel is present throughout the game. Mario on the other hand, a game older by two full years, was designed more properly. In case you're wondering why such a fucking lazy game doesn't get recognition this might be one of the reasons: the devs didn't know what they were doing.
>>740200771The soundtracks was made by 7 time Grammy winner and Rock and Roll Hall of Famer The Police drummer Stewart Copeland considered one of the best drummers of all time >>740200819Spyro has some of the best low poly graphics of all time and pioneered seamless environment LOD
>>740180335Neither Mario 64 nor Spyro 1 are particularly complex games. I feel like Spyro 1 didn't get praised as much because A.) Mario 64 came 2 years earlier and largely was compared against Crash Bandicoot as its main PlayStation contemporary so by the time Spyro came along people had already seen games like it before, and B.) Spyro 2 completely blew the first game out of the water only a year after the first one launched, so the game wasn't really given a chance to stand on its own like Mario 64 was. I love both SM64 and the entire spyro trilogy though.
>the retarded furry has spent SIX HOURS getting ass blasted people like Mario and Spyro is an obscure, forgotten relic of bad game design
>>740201029see >>740187708Mario 64 never actually requires you to use the complex controls for anything, and has tons of design hiccups that make it feel clunky as hell, Spyro's controls are simple but refined and the whole game revolves around them and how smoothly they flow into one another
>>740200771>that soundtrack was genuinely awful wtfI understand every one has its own taste in music, and that's okay. But i think the music of spyro sounds better than mario64 music, and i never played both of these games.Idk, maybe i like the electrical guitar sound more, also its catchy and well composed.
>>740180335Super mario 64 isn't that much more complex than Spyro. You just got triggered by some rando saying they arbritarily like one game over the other.
>>740180335This falls apart because Mario is also extremely simple. Every move in his kit have an extremely clear use. Why is OP acting like Mario is some super complex state machine demon. Nintendo practically popularized the "simple is more" approach to game design, look at fucking Kirby
>the retarded Mariofag has spent SIX HOURS seething and having mental breakdowns instead of simply offering arguments for why Mario is better designed
Should've realized when I was a kid that fucking up spyro was a big sign this world was gonna be a hassle, after 3 everything just has been fucked up.
>>740180335Low Poly thread?
>>740200324PS1 had a two year head start
>>740201157>analog movement in 3D space>too complex for meI'm sorry these are your thoughts. I can't help you with them.
>>740201354Who are you quoting?
>>740201264That's how it is.. Average tendo melty.
>>740201264Not sure if you're replying to me but I made arguments throughout this thread
>>740180335This is a fantastic thread because everyone here agrees OP got flitered a game children can probably intuit, never seen a thread in agreement like this before
>>740201392You replied to my post, right? I brought up that the game was designed improperly for analog movement and you said that was too complex for you.
>>740201504Anon you might be imagining things
>>740201329You still lost tho.
>>740201706If winning is defined by how many copies you sell, sure
>>740201586If you're having issues coming up with a counter argument to my post that's understandable. Spyro was in fact designed to be played with a d-pad and the obvious lacking of mechanical depth compared to Mario 64 is because of this flaw. For instance, in Spyro you literally couldn't do a turn flip, because the game was designed for a d-pad. This was in 1998 too btw. Years after analog was industry standard. The devs weren't really the brightest bunch, were they?
>>740180335every n64 owner wished they had spyro, every time you went to someone's house who had a ps1 with spyro you were playing that shit, they're both great games for different reasons though
>>740202032Not really, no. We had crash and mario for years. Spyro is pretty good for an insoyniac game however.
>>740180335Say what u want, but skyboxes in spyro were peak SOVL.
>>740201961I don't think you read >>740187708 like I suggested, it addresses everything you posted
>>740202192That's a non sequitur reply that doesn't address the topic of my post at all. It's an entirely different topic. And it came before my reply so you certainly weren't counter arguing my points.
>>740201961Funny how even Nintendo adopted PlayStation's dual analog standard, they came all that way only to fumble it at the last moment and ended up being just a stepping stone compared to the PS1 being a standard setter for the analogs we use to this day
>>740202361You are definitely imagining things then, all the points you raised are addressed very clearly in that post because it's not hte first time someone raised them, they're the obvious points of comparison for the two games
>>740202446No I only raised a single point and it wasn't addressed in your post.
>>740202389Hmmm no. It was sony that copied Nintendo's analog standard. And far too late. Barely any gen 5 PS titles were designed around analog. See: Spyro the Dragon, the topic of this thread, a game deaigned to be playable on a d-pad with analog thrown in late and never utilized.
>>740200324>muh salesby your logic the Nintendo Switch is a masterpiece
>>740180335Spyro is gay. It's like the Barney the Dinosaur of platformers.
>>740189319>you only use charging in 3 levelsNo? Supercharge in 1 is in 6 levels. You also use superflight in 6 levels.
>>740203708Be honest, the reason you thought about Barney is because you always wanted to suck his cock, and spyro reminded you of him.We all have dreams anon, we all have dreams..
>>740203379Hmm no, Nintendo first copied the analog standard from arcades and flight sims but fucked up by not actually thinking it through and only using one stick, then Sony copied Nintendo but actually had the foresight to use two sticks, thus establishing the permanent analog golden standard that everyone uses to this day including Nintendo
>>740204208>Nintendo first copied the analog standard from arcades and flight simsNope N64 was the first analog standard console. Nobody else followed until late into the 5th gen, or the beginning of the 6th gen. It's largely why Nintendo was see as pioneers and their games celebrated as groundbreaking while d-pad centric contemporaries like Spyro and Tomb Raider were shrugged off. If Tomb raider were an N64 title utilizing full analog instead of clunky PS1 tank it would have been the Mario 64 of our timeline. Sony lacked any forseight into game development so that never became reality. They were followers. You had to be there.
>>740180841nintengroids SEETHING
>>740204638see >>740204208PlayStation 1 was the first dual analog console and the standard setter, it was a sight to behold, and still is knowing that a BILLION consoles and TEN BILLION games have been sold since based entirely on that humble PS1 controller dual analog design (including Nintendo games and consoles) and that was Sony's very first foray into analogs, really wild how they knew something back then as the newcomer underdog that the established players could never see
>>740180841Fpbp
>>740204034>both gay purple reptile>both made for toddlers and retardsNah, they're literally the same shit for the same audience of babies and shit for brains. Spyro doesnt' even fucking deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Mario 64.
>>740204981Unfortunately it was far too late, they didn't know how to use them, and Spyro suffered because of this fact. Even 30 years later their userbase is still trying to figure out why Spyro isn't seen as a great title next to Mario 64. In fact, I don't think they ever used them until Microsoft standardized dual analog inputs for shooters in the 6th gen. Followers.
>>740201942it's not. winning is defined by considering which has the best combination of the best games and most amount of good gamesand ps1 is so far ahead in both categories it's literally not even worth discussing
>>740180335who cares, what's the point of comparing two games in some bullshit competition when both of the games are good and have their own separate merits
Has anyone noticed Mario 64 threads don't mention Spyro ever? How Banjo threads never mention Croc? How Starfox 64 threads never mention...whatever the psx crappy space game counterpart with little brother complex? What's up with that lmao
>>740189754>every level in spyro is a circleBasically all of the levels in spyro 1 and spyro 2 are mostly linear with several alternate paths to the end. Spyro 3 is the only one where every level is a circle, and I'm guessing the main reason for that is to make it easier to go back around and look for anything you missed.
>>740206813See >>740200095
>>740180335>Spyro is a masterwork of focused design that never got the game design laurels it deservedI actually agree with you and consider it a 10/10 game. Its got zero flaws in my eyes and I've enjoyed a handful of replays of the game. However I also like SM64 and while I do agree with what you said, I still would probably prefer SM64 overall as a game. Its been longer since I replayed SM64 but that was probably the 3D console game I loved most as a child. I also consider that game to be pretty much perfect although I really should replay it again one of these days.On just assumptions I probably would say Spyro is the better made game regardless of the fact it is a simpler game. However I would say SM64 is overall more fun. Spyro does deserve more praise than it gets. It seems Banjo and SM64 and Crash all get more praise while Spyro might get a simple nod of approval at most.
>>740180879I like spyro 23 sucks though
So basically the whole gist of this thread is:>Spyro is better on a technical, thematic and artistic level than SM64>this pissed off a handful of dysgenics enough to make this the fastest thread of the day>the same people who brag that Spyro is dead everyday and claim to be stoic, dignified Nintendo fans
>>740210152>Spyro is better on a technical, thematic and artistic level than SM64If anyone unironically believes this they should be murdered
>>740210152>10 hours to 370 replies is a fast thread
>>740180335Just admit you only had a PSX growing up.
>>740210152>>Spyro is better on a technical, thematic and artistic level than SM64sorry were you summarizing only the posts made by retarded faggots?>Mario 64 mogs the absolute fuck out of Spyro>PS1 mogs the absolute fuck out of the N64both of these statements are objective facts of reality and you are delusional if you attempt to argue
>a game with a fucking dragon has shittier flying than a game with some guylmao
>>740180335SM64, Spyro, OoC/MM and Quake are all excellent games which all carved completely new directions in 3D space.Everything made after those games are just derivative copies, which arguably do a worse job of it.
>>740213187>OoCOoT, I mean
>>740180335I like both games
>>740180335Crash 2 is better than both of these suck my balls
I like Spyro
>>740180879Spyro needed a better villain to play off against like Crash had with Cortex.
>>740186740https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qo4ZAEaD84
>>740216636Spyro and Ripto are perfect foils to each other though>Spyro fights for his friends>Ripto is a bully>Spyro's confident despite his small size and doesn't let it get to him.>Ripto's insecure over being a manlet judging by his oversized collar, his need to dominate everyone, and the ridiculous opera music during his battle>Spyro's a dragon, a species naturally gifted in magic and praised by his elders for his talents>Ripto's a dinosaur, a species less gifted in magic and was bullied during his school years>Spyro is a teamplayer>Ripto is practically helpless without his scepter and relies on his goons to impose his will on others
