>Leveling.>Good.If all of the statistics released for WoW over the years are still true, retention just to max is like 3%. There's no reason to massively segregate players and obsolete 90% of the world
There are some 200M new internet users per year. There's no way that games like WoW shouldn't have increasing amounts of subs.
i played turtlewow for a bit and the exp gain was horrible, once you hit around level 15-20 it slows down to such an extent that you get no satisfaction from handing in a quest because of how little exp you get from itwould rather just play warmane and set it to whatever i want.also im playing tarkov right now and it's the same shit, you do some tedious task and get almost no exp from it
ban blizzfaggots
>>740189476leveling is content in good gamesthe problem is that most games treat it as filler
>>740189476hi nutriments schizo
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/what-if-wow-quietly-revealed-a-9-million-subscriber-number/.>Classic.>878k characters made it to 60 by November of 2025.Am I missing something?
What MMOs are even left for a chud like me.... It's over bros...
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>740190802What massively multiplayer online setting is supposed to survive dozens to hundreds of hours of a dumbed down, forced tutorial?
>>740189476the problem of wow specifically is that you are throw into the world without the minimum idea of what the fuck is going on on the lore, ff14 suffers from the other side of the coin, were they want you to experience everything from the start making it a 300h solo adventure jrpg that not everybody is going to have the patient toe experience, so yeah there has to be a middle ground
>>740193753>dozens to hundreds of hours of a dumbed down, forced tutorialway to prove the point that levels are misused
>>740193909Games like Classic don't do very well, though. I know that's a long leveling example, but it's supposed to be *the MMO*.
>>740189476levels themselves are fine. the problem is the way they're implemented.a single level should take a long time and not make a big difference. someone level 50 and level 70 can do the same raid and while the 70 is stronger the 50 can make up for it with skill and/or gear.instead levels are very easy and make a huge difference and the game doesn't even start until level cap. levels are both pointless and super important.
>>740196481>a single level should take a long time and not make a big difference.Then what's the point of levels? People with inferior stats are going to feel inferior. There's also the conversation about making zones too easy. All zones should be important.
>>740189476>If all of the statistics released for WoW over the years are still true,those statistics are retarded.>only X% f players played past level [WHATEVER]OK? And? Hello?What do you think those stats tell you? Do you think its because the game is too hard? or do you think its because the game is too easy? I dont know which is more likely. I think it is very plausible someone would quit before 60 because the game is fucking boring for 90% of the levelling experience.>most people didnt even get out of the starting zoneLevel 1-4 mobs arent even hostile. levels 5-6 it is impossible to die unless you pull too many too fast. There are no real interactive abilities going on for 90% of classes for most of the leveling experience. In durotar the most notable mobs are the voodoo trolls that can heal, if you have an interrupt then its like the one time you get to make a meaningful decision. The only other mob that is hard enough to be slightly interesting is Fizzle. Its not that exciting. I bet many people who tried the trial decided not to continue with the game because its mostly time wasting, boring, and tedious.It doesnt even have to be that way. you can have mini boss type enemies that have actual mechanics.
>>740191289>less than 10% of all created characters made it past level 10>make bank alt>get an alt to level 25>fuck it this class is lame im going to play my main and never touch this one again>some autist points out that because you didnt level up your bank alt or finish up your level 25 it means X,Y, and Z fundamental game design thing is blah blah blahwhat
>>740196746the point of levels is to get stronger? that doesn't change. what changes is the degree. have you played a video game before?
>>740197194In WotLK, 70% of trial players quit by level 10. Why would further levels be much better? See >>740191289.
It's weird when you start recognizing individual schizos on /v/ like this dude whose fucking obsessed with posting about how MMOs shouldn't have leveling
>>740189554>There's no way that games like WoW shouldn't have increasing amounts of subs.MMOs are basically a dying genre for boomers only (who are increasingly exiting the market as the grow out of, get bored of, or otherwise quit MMOs) and the equivalent of "MMOs" for zoomers is gacha.
>>740197360You can do everything leveling can do with just equipment. Then all zones and materials are relevant, and people can give others equipment. There are also all the benefits of being relevant, like getting accepted into dungeons and having fun in PvP.
>>740190802I have never played an MMO where it was good. In good games, leveling is the thing that happens while you're doing the actual content.
The only time WoW was ever good was in vanilla when most of the playerbase was leveling, raid autism and minmaxing killed it
>>740189476Leveling was the best experience in warhammer online. You got great XP from it, you got good gear (at max level it was the best gear) and it felt like it was a part of the game, rather than some instanced minigame that you queued in to and pretended like the other side was LE ENEMY with zero world permanence. It was also one of the first games to add a public quest system where you could have large NPC events that required multiple people to complete in the open world. I'm still mad EA pulled the plug so early
>>740198761Leveling in PvP*
leveling to this day is my favorite part about wow and is partially why I didn't enjoy the classic revivals because nobody cared about leveling but me, everyone was just racing to max level while I made 6 alts and never it max level, I like the adventure and exploring the world learning the class slowly
>>740197938Devs post here.It's also good to get information to personally make an MMO.
>>740189476The problem with MMOs is that most, if not all of them focus on end-game stuff, and there's no early game or mid-game stuff besides quests/leveling/dungeons which all feel the same.>tfw monsters and memories had a cool late-game island exploration concept to go sailing to islands and adventuring, but i don't wanna sink 60+ hours or more into leveling for something I may try once or twice
>>740189554>subslmao only old fucks are stupid enough to fall for that shit now. The server cost is fucking nothing these days, it's not 2006. It's 99% profit for blizz milking the goycattle.Make it free and actually appeal to straight men, and it could have a chance to succeed like 1000 gacha have.
>>740189476I was fine with soling and small parties, but all the *good* lvl 50+ content wants you to do “raids” (faggot word for huge party groups) and those are just not fun, like at all. Not fun to find, not fun to play in, it diminishes the social aspect and the combat aspect while adding to neither. Also requires a comment to be online more often to be accepted into a raid group. And finally, since they are so high stake time wise, they don’t want any non min/max classes, which also ruins the fun and attracts more of. sort of gamers I don’t even want to play with.That is why I never made it to max lvl, dispite enjoying early WoW a lot.
>>740199067agreed
>>740189628Turtle wow was 99% of the playerbase using tents for full rested. So everyone was always playing at 200% gains
Leveling is and always has been the worst part of MMOs, it's always a time and shit gameplay tax before you get to anything that requires serious coordination or skill.
>>740191289“All characters “ is MUCH MUCH MUCHhhhhh different then all players. Most people have one main, but get board and start new classes all the time, with thier main thinking them with gold, they can lvl somewhat fast to 10-20. A single player might have 20+ of those classes/races they just fucked around with a little and one lvl 60. So an average single player alone would create a 5% ratio using this data
leveling is the only fun thing, endgame is always garbage
>>740198761Warhammer had some good ideas but it was extremely formulaic.Each town had 3 public quests, influence, kill collector, etc. Go down the road to the next town which had the same stuff but a few levels higher. Made the world a lot less immersive along with the fact the world wasn't seamless when Mythic's previous MMO managed it.
Classic players like vanilla WoW levelingRetail players like retail WoW endgameLeveling shouldn't be a chore where the game starts at level cap. I don't know how you find the middle ground there, but you shouldn't feel rushed to reach cap to play with your friends. Like the other anon said I got turned off by needing to do a story skip and not feeling any attachment to my character in XIV because I needed to do that to play with my friends rather than play 300 hours of single player "MMO."I wonder how an MMO would play out with a lower level cap (say even as low as level 10) where the progression is slower, but feels more meaningful and feels less daunting.
>>740198514True.
>>740206072FFXI did it with letting you play all jobs on one character, and making content at various level ranges, and make gear from that content good even up to cap, or just reusable to level your other jobs for long stretches/very popular non-cap content, and letting you level sync to exp in the overworld.
>>740206072You don't find the middle ground.
>>740204923I'm failing to see how that's relevant to only 878k max level toons.
/ESL Bot Nutriments Nigger General/ aka Autistic Ian Thread (Extra Pasta).>Will fly instantly into an uncontrolled fit upon seeing this pasta and accuse the poster of being a liar.>Every argument brought against Nutriments Nigger that he cannot field will be answered with >[Fallacy].>"Warm memos" and other ESL sayings.>Instead of using "is", he uses "of", when discussing subjects. Example? "Quality is of objectivity.">"""Objective""" claims about videogame and art objectivity that are never backed up except with Jewish corporate propaganda that is improperly applied as data.>*Starts talking about vitamins for no reason.*>Legit thinks the perfect game is some bot-infested always-online skinnerbox RMAH trash.>Claims eventually boil down to his preference and literal Jewish player retention propaganda from some extremely kike-ish addiction thinktank.>*gets dabbed on by jannie*>Nutriments Nigger has been doing this for 12 years:https://desuarchive.org/fit/thread/42550205>Nutriments nigger has a "petite" dick and does Kegels for it; he can't please women otherwise
