My favorite RTS? Chess with the timer of course

>>740222221
>or just simply a game with roguelike elements.
sooo... roguelite?

>>740222696
Not a roguelite. Roguelite is a shit term that shouldn't exist. Just say the game has roguelike elements.

>>740222748
>Just say the game has roguelike elements.
ok so if i want to say that quicker, what word should i use?
a word that says that the game has roguelike elements, but doesnt strictly adhere to them.

>>740222813
>what word should i use?
Roguelivania

>>740222221
you have autism.

>>740222916
"metroidvania" is because the name is based off of how metroid and castlevania games share the same style of gameplay and world design.
"roguelivania" would apply to a roguelike that also has metroidvania elements.

>>740222221
Roguelike is genre
Action roguelike, roguelite, card roguelike, deckbuild ninja pritate zombie rape simulator with roguelike elements is also not a genre

This isn't up for a debate - it's basic English.

>>740222748
>Just say the game has roguelike elements
... No?
Are you going to provide any actual reason to do that?

>>740222813
If your game can't be described as a roguelike or action roguelike, then it does not deserve to have rogue be a part of its identity.

>>740223091
it was a silly joke

>>740223106
languages evolve

>>740223113
Your game is not a roguelite. It has some roguelike elements. No reason to resolve your game's identity around that, since it plays nothing like rogue.

>>740222221
Roguelike was a retarded term to vegin with. It's just RPG with random generation and permadeath.

>>740222748
Guess what? You don't control the english language

I will continue to say roguelite and you can't stop me

>>740223297
You can say it, but you will look utterly retarded for doing so.

>>740223382
So i look utterly reatrded for not freaking out over an established word used by everyone?

Take your autism meds

>>740223117
>being elitist over an ancient ascii game
i am now going to call roguelites roguelikes just to piss you off.

>>740222221
>Turn based game RPG where you and enemies (and optionally followers/NPCs) take turns moving on a grid and fights take place on the same grid.
Rogelike
>Random game but permadeath (+ optional meta progression)
Fake Roguelike slop game. Personally I call these games "poopdickassscatniggerjewtrannyleftistcuckpedoindianfutaslop" games, not "roguelike" or "roguelite".

>>740223242
Do you mean revolve? It's not about a game's identity (whatever the fuck that means).
Roguelite is a descriptive word that communicates a useful idea, games are usually described as a roguelite "X" with another genre, e.g. a roguelite top down shooter, which I think works very well. If we don't have that everyone is going to go back to calling those games roguelikes, surely you can agree that that's much worse?

>>740222221
Frankly, the term "roguelike" has its own problems as well. If you aren't familiar with the games within the genre, you'd expect it to depict a game about rogues. It would thus be more appropriate to call them grid-based procedurally generated turn-based dungeon crawlers(GBPGTBDCs).

>>740223263
Roguelike means like Rogue. It's the people who tried to expand that definition who messed everything up.

>>740223856
The original game made you play a rogue.
But in most Roguelikes I just play a warrior/brute, just like in most action games.

>>740222748
Words develop to facilitate easy communication, your inane rejection of commonly used language just reveals your lack of social engagements and obvious narcissistic tendencies.

>>740223856
Random Crawler
Random Arcade

>>740222221
https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php/Berlin_Interpretation

>>740223525
You are free to say, but not necessarily free from judgement.
>>740223639
Retard.
>>740223808
Roguelite means almost nothing. Having some random perk thing means almost nothing about how your game plays. Cult of the lamb is absolutely nothing like rogue, not even close. At best you can say it has a few roguelike elements. But it should not have rogue be a part of its identity. It shouldn't be described as a roguelike. Calling it a roguelite doesn't help. It has nothing to do with rogue.
>>740224021
Roguelite is a harmful term that only causes confusion. Not all terms need to exist. Some are better off perishing.

>>740222221
OP is actually dead straight and omegabased for resisting linguistic corruption actually

those who disagree are on the same level as the faggots who use singular they/them pronouns to refer to """non-binary""" retards

The entire reason why "roguelike" became as convoluted as it is, is because games journalists latched on to it to pretend they were hardcore gamers for beating binding of isaac and at the time "roguelikes" were seen as the pinnacle of classic game difficulty
If you subscribe to their ideology then you are a spineless cuck faggot, end of story

>>740224219
hlyste ge þissum uncuþum menn

>action roguelike
Another meaningless crap like LGBBQWTFRPG+-/*.
>or just simply a game with roguelike elements.
Nearly every game in existence.

>>740223182
As of late mostly devolve, it would seem.

>>740224021
>commonly used
Masses do a lot of dumb shit, also it wasn't commonly used that long ago before marketing teams latched onto it. OP may be retarded in some ways but not in this part.

>>740224645
No, the "roguelike community" has notoriously always struggled to define what a roguelike even is
The "Berlin Interpretation" is laughably insufficient and contradicts even its own canon

>>740224193
I haven't played Cult of the lamb but it doesn't surprise me. People can water down the term roguelite all they want, I don't really care, it's still less retarded than when they were calling everything a roguelike.
Roguelite is THE term for any vague notion of a game with some """roguelike elements""", it only exists to stop every game in existence from being called a roguelike, which is an actual genre that does mean something.

>>740225319
Agreed. This is still the best video on what a roguelike really is. And even then there's still room for debate, but it's pretty solid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-13LUfagQhY

File: 1758565984071492.png (12 KB, 232x258)

12 KB PNG

>>740222221
if a game has "rogue" in its descriptors or tags i am not playing nor buying it

>>740225319
Definitions are always vague and have edge cases that can go either way. Genres especially are more like a pointer word towards a vague grouping of things, some will clearly fit in the genre with the others, some will clearly not, and people will have different opinions for ones on the border.
I agree the Berlin Interpretation is stupid. Roguelike is the genre that includes Rogue and Nethack and Angband. It is a genre that does not include Call of Duty 4 or Kirby Super Star or Forza: Horizons.
Does it include Dwarf Fortress? Debatable.
That's how genres work.

>>740223525
They don't make meds strong enough for this retard.

>>740222221
Just be grateful that people are actually using a different term for that kind of game.
The alternative is everyone just calling Returnal and Spelunky "rougelikes", which I'm sure you'd hate even more.

>>740226502
>Does it include Dwarf Fortress? Debatable.
That depends on whether we're using the term inclusively or exclusively and that depends on the context. In some contexts, Dwarf Fortress is a roguelike.

>>740226814
Them being such similar terms being only different by a single consonant isnt helpful.
The entire naming convention is stupid, its been 45 years and we are no further along than "doom clone" was before it properly became "fps"

>>740222748
>Just say the game has roguelike elements.
They never do, though.99.9% of roguelites have metaprogression. Saying they have "roguelike elements" is like saying that third person shooters have "first person elements".

>>740226814
>people are actually using a different term for that kind of game.
That's the funny thing, they aren't. The only reason "roguelite" exists is because it's near indistinguishable at a glance from roguelike, and most of the time the terms are used interchangeably by retards.

It's basically just a large scale erasure of a genre because retarded indie devs couldn't come up with a real name for their lazy dogshit.

>>740222221
Good luck trying to enforce gaming jargon.

>>740224138
Roguebasin are a bunch of retards, and the berlin interpretation is a direct consequence of that.

File: 1735334363807702.png (749 KB, 804x486)

749 KB PNG

>>740226091
your loss bro. the best game in existence is literally a roguelike

>>740226979
Obviously they have roguelike elements other than those
Third Person Shooters also have a lot in common with First Person Shooters but "first person elements" are precisely not it

>>740223762
Wizardry had permadeath and grid based movement but no one calls it a roguelike.

>>740227457
>Obviously they have roguelike elements other than those
Random level generation is not significant enough, and that's basically all they share in common. The entire design philosophy is wrong.

It's a surface level similarity. I can understand puzzle games having a very wide range, all you need is puzzles. A game can have easy puzzles, a game can have hard puzzles. Calling roguelites "anything vaguely associated with rogue" is like calling Bioshock Infinite a puzzle game because during the opening sequence Booker goes "wait a minute that card...".

>>740227731
>Random level generation is not significant enough, and that's basically all they share in common.
No, even if we take the Berlin interpretation, then roguelites share a number of the high-value factors:
>proc gen levels
>permadeath
>non-modal
>frequently emergent gameplay
>resource management
>hack and slash gameplay
And the following low-value factors:
>single character
>tactical challenge
>dungeons of interconnected rooms
>numerical stats

That's more than half. And in all that I can't believe they don't include character progression, which is also a prominent shared feature.
Also, this doesn't actually exclude meta-progression.

If it were up to me, what we call now traditional rougelikes would be the standard for roguelikes while blobbers, dungeon crawlers and similar games with meta progression like wizardy or mystery dungeon would be a lite version of a rougelike or a roguelite.
Any other games just wouldn't be rouge anything, having permadeath doesn't make a game a rougelike. Otherwise shit like hardcore WoW, Ironman/no reloading strategy games and RL(real life) would be "roguelikes". StS, FTL and binding of Issac have more in common with non rougelikes than with rogue

If it has high replayability through permadeath and procgen then it's a roguelike, simple as.

>>740228724
>If it has permadeath it's a roguelike/lite
why don't you end your run irl

>>740222221
Its because roguelike is a standalone genre and doesn't need any other descriptors. When you say for example isaac is a roguelike, that doesn't really make any sense because you arent telling people that it's a twin stick shooter first and foremost. That's what pisses people off. But yeah you can go about it by saying roguelite or roguelike elements I don't care, just don't muddy the waters with real roguelikes

>>740222221
>action roguelike
>game with roguelike elements
we have a term for those already, they're called roguelites you dumbass zoomer

>>740228412
Procedural generation and ironman rules arent core features of rogue.
If the game has simultaneous turn taking on a grid, that should be the core gameplay feature that people relate between games. Someone could make a handcrafted world with conventional checkpoints and so long as the moment to moment gameplay is extremely similar it would not be inappropriate to say they play alike.
Permanent death is a difficulty slider that can exist in any genre of game. And proc gen is a very elaborate shuffling of cards to dictate the game setup, variable setup predates computer technology.

>>740229314
What a truke to end all trukes

>>740227527
Because it's first person.

>>740223117
A game that is almost a roguelike but has metaprogression (e.g. the Shiren the Wanderer games) deserves to be called a roguelite.

>>740223263
>roguelike is a retarded term instead use my word salad “dog with permanent death mechanics and random generation of items, enemies and levels”
It’s almost like new words are created to facilitate easier and quicker communication of ideas.

>>740227527
Roguelike needs:
>permadeath
>grid based
>no metaprogression (Intention matters here. Item recovery disqualifies Wizardry, but bones files do not disqualify Nethack because Nethack was intended to be played on multiuser servers where it's unlikely to find your own bones).
>procedurally generated levels (disqualifies Wizardry)
>bump combat (disqualifies Wizardry)

>>740232760
No, that's a mystery dungeon game. You know, the genre all these roguelites should have actually be called.

>>740233045
Also:
>turn based

When’s the last time a relevant “true” roguelike even released? At this point, roguelike and roguelite are same, and when the last retards defending the name of a genre that hasn’t been relevant for 50 years, it’ll be solidified as a fun fact for the origin of the name, and why the terms are interchangeable

roguelikes are games similar to rogue, a card game is not a roguelike, a shooter is not a roguelike, mario is not a roguelike

>>740228831
The term "roguelite" doesn't need to exist at all. Everything that could be called a roguelite is a roguelike, because it has permadeath and procgen.

>>740233308
https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Traditional%20Roguelike?flavor=contenthub_newandtrending
i'm

>>740233336
Agreed and rpgs are similar to and based off TTRPGS. Any non text based game isn’t an rpg

>>740233724
nta but my personal definition of rpg does require a turn based ruleset due to the tabletop origins
not sure what the interface has to do with it

>>740233349
But that's not all it takes to be like Rogue.

Permadeath and procedural generation is a secondary feature of roguelikes. If retards accept this then the discussion is over as you have cut through the root of the misconception.
If you remove permadeath and had hand crafted levels in Rogue does it suddenly stop being Rogue? No, because they aren't critical aspects of the genre. They are very traditional aspects which is why they are so prevalent. But this debate is like arguing whether such and such game is an FPS by whether there is health regen or not. It's fucking retarded. It is obvious that roguelikes are their own type of RPG worth distinguishing from the rest but everyone is under this collective delusion that it is because of muh permadeath and procgen. Is DOOM with Oblige generated WADs and doing full restarts when you die a roguelite? Roguelikes are simultaneous turn-based tactical rpgs with modal controls. THATS IT.

>>740233870
You are autistic.

that's retarded. If it's not like rogue, it's not a roguelike. call it isaac-like if you want.

>>740233349
>play ToME, one of the highly regarded roguelikes
>get to the end of the game
>realize I forgot to turn on Ironman difficulty
>your playthrough was not a roguelike
This is stupid, youre stupid.

>>740233308
What the fuck is "relevant"? Relevant to normalfags who never had any interest in the genre to begin with? New roguelikes are released all the fucking time, here's one from a month ago: https://roguebasin.com/index.php/Broken_Crown . There's probably a bunch more since then, but I can't be bothered trawling through to separate real new released and updates, etc.
The thing is that most roguelikes are just hobby projects by random nerds, they're the ideal project for the sort of person that wants to code a game but doesn't want to bother with art at all so there are always tons being made.
Normalfags suddenly became vaguely aware of the genre in the last decade or so, when other popular games started cribbing features from them and calling themselves roguelikes or roguelites, but the actual roguelike genre has been trucking along in its own niche much like it always did.

>>740233653
You have exposed my ignorance, and while I acknowledge this and thank you, I must still call you a homosexual for doing so. Traditional roguelike seems like a great distinguisher desu, I feel like this should be used instead of trying to combat the inevitable total domination of roguelites being called roguelikes. The other option is a traditional roguelike so popular comes out that it changes everyone’s minds.

>>740234460
It's like saying "man, you should stop resisting and accept calling the kind of food you always ate before traditional food and accept others calling shit on a plate foodlike or at least foodlite". It's an exaggeration but I'm too lazy to come up with either a non-food analogy or even something non-edible.

>>740222221
Age of Empire 2 is my favorite roguelite
>Random environment generation
>Permadeath
>Non-modal
>Complexity
>Resource management
>Hack'n'slash
>Exploration and discovery
7 high value factors out of 9 :^)

>>740234639
This is more like Italians seething that Italian-Americans fundamentally changed concepts like pizza so now they have to specify that their specific type of pizza is more authentic when the rest of the world has moved on and doesnt care.
I will snap spaghetti noodles in half.

File: 1766522536477854.gif (2.88 MB, 479x255)

2.88 MB GIF

None of this autism even makes sense right now because at the end of the day devs are always going to mix up roguelite and roguelike in their descriptions and only like 5% of people will ever care.

>>740234317
Fair enough, although I mean relevant enough to warrant a distinction in the mind of the public. If you want to say “who gives a shit what the public thinks” that’s fine but also why roguelikes and roguelites will eventually become the same name

>>740234639
It’s about the evolution of words. It’s more like how retard used to mean mentally handicapped person and now it means low IQ individual who has not the excuse of fucked genes

>>740235296
>devs are always going to mix up roguelite and roguelike
because those words have no meaning

>>740235390
>evolution
Again with this nonsense. This change was forced by marketers. Journos can't be blamed for it any more than an anus can be blamed for expelling excrement.
>It’s more like how retard used to mean mentally handicapped person and now it means low IQ individual who has not the excuse of fucked genes
Here? Yes, but there's always the mental asterisk of "figurative". And it is jargon.

You're justifying a bad thing and asking others, whom it directly concerns, to give up and go with the flow. I say "no" to this, and the more someone insists the more inclination I feel to add various colorful descriptors and suggestions what to do with their anatomical features to that.

>>740236086
I’m not looking at the source of the change, and will instead judge the change on its own merits. I don’t see it as a bad change, just a change, specifically inevitable, and that there would be less unhappiness among the hardcore roguelike definition side if it was accepted. Honestly, I was fine with roguelite, but if OP insists roguelike is the only acceptable label, fine, expect roguelikes to be cannibalized by roguelites then, because no one is going to slap the label of “game with roguelike elements” onto slay the spire’s tags. That dudes pizza analogy is actually kinda spot on. Also, such a description on one’s features and suggested actions might spur one to respond with a log of activities performed with such features on the commentators relatives

>>740237734
You don't see it as a bad change because it doesn't affect you. Whenever someone who plays games that are like Rogue wants to find other games that are like Rogue, he has his time wasted by "roguelikes" that are not actually "roguelikes".
I'm also much more okay with all the tangentially related, if even that, games were called "roguelite". OP is right about it being a meaningless word because it is too unspecific.

>>740225358
You're devaluing 'roguelite's actual purpose, which is to be a filter phrase. If you see it and glance at gameplay and immediately infer from it that the dev has stuck in some misplaced RNG and metaprogression elements that probably do not have any cohesion with the rest of the game you know you should just ignore it. The randomisation and metaprogression elements in basically every game serve only to bloat the experience to make people spend longer on a meagre amount of content and in turn think it was better value than it actually was.

>>740222696
>>740222748
A roguelikelike

>>740238004
You know what, that’s fair. Even if it’s 1,000 people, they should be able to find games closely related to rogue rather than the current roguelites, even if — especially since roguelites are much more popular

>>740237734
The hardcore roguelike definition side is the one that has been pushing FOR the use of "roguelite", we're well aware that the alternative is that normalfags start calling everything under the sun a roguelike again. The OP is just one retard all on his own.

>>740238640
He probably saw me mention that "roguelite" is meaningless in another thread not too long ago. OP might just be of a retarded bait kind.

>>740223918
>The original game made you play a rogue.
You play as a fighter in Rogue. The plot of the original Rogue is that you are trying to become a member of the fighter's guild by retrieving the amulet of yendor from the dungeon. You don't have much in the way of stealth or other rogueish abilities.

>>740222221
Roguelite is the same as "Gacha", it describes your game's progression mechanics.

File: TotK_Like_Like_Model.png (741 KB, 934x1400)

741 KB PNG

>>740238432
what a rogue likelike might like look likelike

File: 1763037692909167.jpg (34 KB, 680x785)

34 KB JPG

>>740240108

>>740240108
That's a Triffid from The Day of the Triffids.

>>740226814
>alternative is everyone just calling Returnal and Spelunky "rougelikes"
normalfags already do that

>>740225319
>the "roguelike community" has notoriously always struggled to define what a roguelike even is
is the gameplay like rogue? if yes, it's a roguelike. if not, it's not.
either way, go fist yourself

>>740222221
>Roguelite isn't a real term
What makes a term 'real' or 'unreal/fake'?

>>740226091
What if the game's name was "Rogue the Bat: Hardcore Simulator"?

>>740242303
whether your moral and intellectual superiors in Europe declare it "real" or "fake"

https://roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation

>>740242303
It's a fake term because it was only ever used as a deflection by disingenous "nu-roguelike" faggots when they got called out.
If there was a proper use for "roguelite" it would be games like PMD

>>740242798
Why are we letting the Germans dictate the English language? I thought we won the World Wars.

>>740222221
Roguelike is same as Immersive Sim. It's a design principle, not a genre in itself.

File: 1675021998436261.jpg (154 KB, 1378x1378)

154 KB JPG

>>740227378
>162cm

>>740222748
>shouldn't
Shouldn't is a shit term that should not exist, just say "should not".

It's been 6 years since AI Dungeon. How come nobody made a proper AI roguelike game that doesn't hallucinate? Amazing how we no longer have too many finger bugs, full blown AI music, videos, AI vtubers, but no AI games. Rogue was made on a washing machine-tier computer. Seriously tell me why can't AI hold together the simplest of games?

>>740222221
My favorite roguelike is Binding of Isaac