>fantasy game>swords cut through armourArmour never works how it should, it's always just "take [x]% less damage"
>>740235812It nullify most light class and light weapons.
>>740235812>Action game>Heavy armor sucks>Light armor is better>No armor is best>Turn based game>Heavy armor is better>Light armor sucksMy favourite approach would be giving heavy armor penalties, but those penalties are almost fully migrated by investing into endurance or heavy armor perks.So heavy armor is technically better but requires investment while light armor requires no investment, leting you spec heavier into other things like magic or stealth for example.
*laughs in THAC0*
>slows movement to a crawl>still die in the same number of hits>conducts magicAt this point just take the skibidi zoomer agility Naruto dodge pill and never get hit.
>>740236528Souls games are the most hostile to heavy armor.I think I never ever used heavy armor in Souls games. In the eraly game, where you have low endurance, I often even ran round naked or half naked.
>>740237181In DaS1 heavy armor pretty much turns you into a tank. You can trivialize early bosses if you get the Stone set straight away. All the other games fucked up poise though.
D&d based games are what you want, but it feels shittier.
>>740237743>Rogue in leather armor gets 16 AC>Knight in full plate gets 18 AC which is a difference of 2.>Magic ignores all armor.>Most high level threats easily breech 18 AV and hit for full damage.>Stealth disadvantage too >And it canonically takes 10 minutes to equip/unequip but luckily no DM knows that. >Expensive as fuckArmor in DnD sucks.
>>740235812Not in D&D games. You roll your ac save you don’t take damage
>>740237181So annoying that idiots keep repeating this. DS3's armor even gives you a flat percentage damage reduction at NO COST. Why the fuck would you not take the FREE -50% damage?
>>740238504Fuck your family, bitch.
>>740238504Only niggers play soulslop
>>740235812Is he okay?
>Heavy Armor >Turn all Piercing and Slashing damage into 25% Bludgeoning damage >Take full damage from bludgeoning >Critical hits Bypass >Medium Armor provides defense but adds a small dodge chance>No Armor provides full dodge chance, all confirmed hits on you are 90% likely to be crits How does that work for say a Turn based game? I had an idea a few years ago for a game I'll never act on.
>>740238960Very good idea.
>>740238960>PiercingDepends on the weapon. Piercing was one of the few practical anti-armor methods that actually worked, the rondel dagger and estoc being specifically designed for it. The others being things like maces, hammers and chisel-edged poleaxes.
>>740238960>>740239190I'd also say more like 75% damage vs bludgeoning. Yes, hammers and maces were good against steel plate but it's still nowhere as brutal as if you were using them on someone without armor.
>>740238960Sounds like Stoneshard.>heavy: block most damage, crit resistance, dodge penalty>medium: block some damage, very little dodge penalty>light: full dodge, but get hit n ur fukin ded m8
>>740239814In turn based games, armor is usually much better than action games.
>>740239190Light piercing vs heavy piercing mechanics?
>>740235812No different than any medieval or fantasy movie, you almost never see armor actually deflect a blow. The hero cuts down dozens of armored men with a single slash each.
just play halfsword if you want a realistic armor system
>fantasy game>your tin can "armor" can actually withstand heavy direct blows from giants and dragons instead of pulverizing you into mulch
>>740237181DS1 poise is what makes heavy armor meaningful since you get functional poise.This somehow confused and frightened the devs of future souls games who decided to constantly break a perfect system from a better game, instead of just nerfing backstabs or making endurance a hard limit.
>>740238960>get a hit to full helmet>80% of damage is converted to sonic damage
It turns out realistic armor is really boring for video games and fiction, since real armor's main remaining risk of death or injury is in being knocked over and battered to death, being stabbed through the gaps in your plate/mail or helmet, or having the armor stripped from you while you can't fight back and THEN you're killed.
>>740238268yes, that's why he said it feels shit.It works like it should, however.>natural AC is 10>add dex bonus, let's say 2, so your AC is 12>add a shield, your AC is 13>add armor, your AC is 16so if enemy rolls 14, it's your armor preventing the hit because you couldn't dodge or block it in time.And your armor actually works so it negates the attack completely instead of just reducing damage.
>>740243885By that logic you jsut shouldn't be able to defeat giants and dragons at all as a human because MUH SPEED will help you even less than solid armor without I frames and plot armor.
>>740243978DS1 poise got removed, then toned way the fuck down into hyper-armor, then half-assedly brought back in ER, because you could just Havel clown through everything. It really sucked to deal with from a game-designer standpoint and DS1 represents a period where they still didn't really know what they were doing.
>>740238960the later plate armors were pretty much impervious to maces and warpicks as well unless hit from horseback or something. There is absolutely no way you can hit a pick through one of the better made plates. They can deflect a musket ball
the most funny part in history is that people who could even AFFORD a full set of armor were noble shitters and would get mogged getting knocked out and having all that shit sold anyway and be ransomed rich fags had no idea how wars were really fought
>>740235812There is the shit way that DnD handles it where it is just a chance to avoid all damage, which is far more stupid than a sword cutting through steel plate.
>>740238268*catches you flat footed*bye bye dodge AC!
>>740238268Yes I prefer armor actually reducing damage instead of just being an avoid stat.
>>740236432Did 2e turn into rocket tag where enemies had such insane stats that they would basically always hit?Also, wasn't -10 the best AC?
>>740236432>>740244651how does the aDnD stat system work, where you have a strength score of 18/32 or something like that? What does the number after 18 mean?
>>740238268>apply naval wargaming rules to living creaturesIt's a miracle it works at all.
>>740235812Well in many crpgs heavy armor adds armor class, which means less chance to receive damage at all instead of % damage reduction (this comes from tabletop where it works the same way)>>740244387>which is far more stupidIt's not, it's literally the fucking point of armorYou wear it so the arrow bounces off dealing 0 damage.Like, worst faith argument would be "but concussions!" in which case you just assume when the damage goes trough it can be because of a strong concussion.
>>740244979That's how close you are to 19 str basically - an additional bonus
>>740245439It's funny how such a /xx system is only for Ability Score of 18. According to some sheet on steam forums, after you get to 19, you can then proceed normally again.I guess that's some sort of threshold where you surpass the limits of mortal men and therefore it takes extra effort?
>>740235812there was a game called War of the Roses that actually had armor behave like this. I wouldn't call it realistic but slashing plate armor did jack shit. It was pretty interesting but very flawed.I loved when you'd knock them down and then mount them and stab through their visor with a small dagger. It was just an execution animation but very memorable. You also saw people do that animation to you in first person, felt very personal.
>>740235812picrel did it right
>>740236387If you wanted to go for realism, the main penalty for full plate armor should just be cost and time, and maybe some minor negatives to endurance and stealth. But there should really never be a case where you would choose to not wear your armor in battle IF you were able to afford it. And make it not just expensive, but then also something you have to wait for to pay off, like a mid-game investment to pay off late game.
>>740244979Not canon but my interpretation:4 Literally cannot move/Wheelchair bound6 Seriously Incacipated8 Weak10 Average human12 Man who goes to the gym regularily14 Athlet16 Body builder/MMA fighter18 Strongman/Powerlifter20 Beast (Ogres have 19 and minotaurs 18 despite being twice as large as humans)>20 Supernatural! Can bend steel and crush buildings!
>>740236387Heavy armour should be significantly better than light armour but you are slower. Have heavy weapons that outrange, bursts and out dps light weapons. People in heavy armour just simply beat people in light armour. The consequence is the person in heavy armour has less say in what battles they can choose to engage due to being slower.
imo heavy armor should be all about poor visibility and poor hearing and it has to be expensive as fuck and impossible to repair at all if there's no smith nearby.These however don't make a fun game.Defeating heavily armored opponents is always more fun than playing as a heavy dude
>>740245663Half-orcs can have 19, so it's just a balance concession to most races having a cap of 18
>>740246004Exhaustion should also be a factor, plate-armor is heavy just to wear, that shit's a 45 to 70 pound weight attached to your body
>>740245663>>740246173Personally I hate that you can't just play an ogre/minotaur with 24+ strength but poor intelligence and maybe difficulties finding fitting armor or getting through tight spaces in most systems.
>>740235812i head canon this as a stamina system. that every hit with a bladed weapon on an armored enemy chips away at their stamina until they are exhausted.
>>740246264but it's spread out, it's not like you are carrying a 50 pound backpack
>>740244173>And your armor actually works so it negates the attack completely instead of just reducing damage.But it doesn't negate the hit. It absorb the hit, which cause the armor to break over time.
>>740235812Imagine getting struck by an axe while wearing armor and tell me it wouldn't still hurt.
I don't know, for a lot of posts it sounds like you guys are trying to change things just to be more realistic rather than because they create interesting choices for the playershttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGpFEv1-mAo
>>740245746Where does Sekiro even stab him?
Battle Brothers has a pretty good implementation, in that it's usually preferable to medium/light as long as your guy has enough fatigue to keep on fighting.I dislike that nimble builds are almost as good and much cheaper, though.We don't speak of fatnewts.
>>740246420It's spread out so it doesn't weigh down one specific part of your body, it's still an extra 50 pounds you're lugging about as an item on your person and just standing with it on is tiresome
>>740246123Only time playing a heavy armored dude is when you can use it to plow through attacks like in For Honor or fighting games. >That dopamine hit when you get the screen pauses during your armored charged attack as the enemy hits you multiple times during for 1 DMG
>>740245715I fucking loved War of the Roses"TIGHTEN STRAPS, VISORS DOWN!"I'll never forgive them for killing it for their gay war of the vikings game nobody played
>>740246529Depends on the location.If you hit into the gaps of the plate armor, it would be agonising.If you strike my breastplate or helmet with an axe, it would just be mildly irritating.
>>740246505well that's up to the DM. IIRC in core 3.5E rules you have to actually do a sunder attack to damage equipment.
>>740246004In kenshi heavy armor shits on light armor. Not so much at the lower tiers but late game with high quality armor the pros vastly outweigh the cons.
>>740246581He doesn't. He tires him out and then kicks off the bridge.
>>740244257Theres gotta be some modicum of compromise between allowing DaS1 inspired poise and hyper-armor from weapons.
>>740244257bro those dark souls villains are so boring
>>740246642Completely false. Getting hit in the head by an axe is like getting hit with a mace. Unless the blow glances off due to the angle of the helmet, you're getting ringed at the minimum, the helmet denting into your face and the force breaking bone at the worst. Breastplate won't be as bad due to the likely padding the wearer has beneath the plate armor to dampen blows but it will still bruise nasty
>>740246641hell ya brother
>>740246672It's interesting because for general adventuring heavy armor is shit, but if you wanna besiege locations in military operations, heavy armor is the best.And you need high skills and mid-high quality heavy armor of course. Low quality heavy armor just slows you down unnessesarily.
>>740246817Elden Ring is already it, poise *sort of* works in addition to hyper-armor from weapons, the latter of which is more noticeable. Armor is largely still fashion
>>740238268The whole point in that is the Rogue has to invest into Dex to get the same AC. The full plate fighter doesn't. He can instead put his points into Str to do more damage or Con to become an HP tank.
>>740246838and obviously getting hit in your center mass won't be as disorienting as getting hit into an extremity and getting spun around
>>740246842I mean, both adventuring and sieging have heavy hitting enemies. You're going to be glad you wore that samurai chest plate when you take a harpoon/security spider to the chest. Adventuring at least have some good leg plates so you dont get hamstrung.
>>740246642Buddy, have you seen how long the handle of a typical dane axe is? They're practically short polearms, and eventually they did become polearms in the form of bardiches. The leverage and heft that a long handle gives a wedge shaped axe head makes axes only slightly less scary with armor than without.
>>740235812Armor was basically cheat mode for rich nobles but also it was really rare to see someone in full plate because of how expensive and hard to make they wereVideo games make them seem normal so naturally they need to be nerfed.
>>740244257>Vendrick>villainDid he ever do anything evil?I thought he just realized the writing was gay (muh cycles) and his wife was actually black, so he decided to get naked and pace in the basement instead of sit on the chair
>>740244418>is immune to being flat footed in your pathShit now we're playing 3.5
>>740244257No, it was genuinely perfect. You wear heavy armor, you get hit more and have less stamina, but the trade of is you now get priority on the majority of actions - Dark Souls is a turn-based game, so it plays into that.The problem was how overbearing FoFaP and Havels are, which then combined with armor upgrades became even more dominant. The snappy style of backstabs also made fishing too powerful a strategy with Poise-tanking being the primary (but not ONLY) way of abusing that mechanic.So...just balance the equip load problem by making heavy armor builds hyper-specific and investment gated, and then fix backstabs so they're not piss easy to pulloff in every given situation.The removal of poise is in-line with the obsession with turning DS into an action series instead of treating it as a real-time game with a turn-based philosophy.The removal of poise is the first domino that falls until you get to absolute garbage like Consort Radahn.Poise IS Dark Souls, it's literally emblematic of what made DS1 work - the mentality that informs it also informs all the other positive qualities of early Souls that are now sorely missing. Remember that the game with the most aggressive attempt to make poise is useless, DS3, is also the worst game in the series with the worst world design and the worst character building in the entire series bar none.
>>740247243Vendrick fell for a very long series of false-flags at the behest of his wife, he himself isn't evil but the game makes the case he didn't really stop and think about what he was doing until it was way too late to stop
>>740246420So? It's an extra layer of metal and heavy fabric on you, the difference is never going to be negligible, doing anything in armour sucks
>>740247334>The removal of poise is the first domino that falls until you get to absolute garbage like Consort Radahn.I used a sacred greatshield to ignore 99% of his outgoing damage.
>>740247210>cheat mode for rich noblesOnly until the 15th century or so.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munition_armourOf course, around the same time we started to have usable firearms, which eventually diminished the usefulness of plate (unless ceramic inserts :P).
>>740238268See you say this but a heavy fortification enchantment to negate crits and a shield will still put you ahead of the Rogue at the end as long as the rogue isn't the DMs RL GF and she gets extra + magic items you don't
>>740247613You can just kill the DM's RL GF
>>740244257DS2 poise works a lot like a slightly nerfed DS1 poise with the VERY extreme caveat that it refills so slowly that poise regen is almost totally negligible during an encounter. It wasn't until DS3 where they removed passive poise completely and then Elden Ring went back to something much closer to the DS2 system. >t. 500 hours on the Iron Keep bridge
Vermintide 2 had a great balance>armored opponents can be only hurt with explosives or headshotssimple and makes armor an actual factor
>>740247613>>740247705If my DM would giver his sex doll preffered treatment over me, I would just stand up, flip the table, spit in his face and fuck off from the group forever.
>>740247830>play with your casual friends and dance with Stormvermin>play a random public game on the hardest difficulty but forget youre not playing with your friends>a stormvermin instantly gibs you because you forgot that you have to avoid the overhead swing
I just don't get why devs and others think full plate was that heavy. You can still run, swim and mount a horse in it. It's basically just an antiquated version of what soldiers wear now when you factor in equipment
>>740235812It's like that theory about the health meter actually being a luck meter in shooting games. As long as you have luck the bullets miss you, but when you run out you get shot and die.In this case when your luck runs out the attack hits a weak point in your armor.
>>740248048It WAS that heavy, a 45-70 pound weight attached to your body at all times is pretty fucking heavy. Modern US soldiers carry around that much or more in gear and develop horrible back, shoulder and muscle-strain problems.
>>740248221The load is nowhere near as well distributed. Just ask the m249 saw gunner
>>740247884I'd just fuck his GF and keep playing but you do you
>>740235812And until games can simulate the physics of different materials they never will you retard, stop complaining
>>740248184and plate makes you luckier because it's made of iron, like horseshoes
>>740247884to be desu I would just not play in a group that has romantic or sexual relations within the group. At all, not even one session. Shit always feels weird.I used to DM for my friends and one time my gf was a player as well and I had to be extra careful to not give her any leeway nor make it too hard. It's just too much hassle.Played among strangers or friends is okay, playing with your relationships is not.
>>74024822140lbs (the average weight of full harness) was attached to your entire body and fitted. You would barely notice it if you trained at all.The modern soldier's plate is 40 lbs for front/back/side lvl4s entirely on their chest and a backpack is terrible for weight distribution.
>>740248184it makes sense in games with health regen but the ones with actual HP not so much because you explictly use medkits
>>740235812Wish granted, every sword, dagger and spear is now useless. Have fun only using maces and halberds
>>740248756Grazes and non-vital hits versus a fatal shot
>>740248758not enough games have good maces, hammers and polearms.It's always just swords and some dualwielding bullshit
>>740235812In a vacuum, yes. But in a game with other mechanic, it may make sense.
>>740248758>daggerpicrel wants a wordI'm ok with that as long as the game has fatigue and wrestling mechanics
>>740235812Fantasy games have super magical metals that are entire tiers above the previous metal. It would be like cutting through silver or gold armor with a steel blade.
>>740248758>dagger for town>blade and arrow for unarmored/light>blunt and crossbow for armored (common bosses)name one issue with this
>>740248758>Wish granted, every sword, dagger and spear is now useless.a meme, as a matter of fact Pietro Monte or Don Juan Quijada de Reayo did reccomend the sword against armoured opponents, Quijada in particular mentioned to use it on foot while he recommended the much memed mace on horseback. There are pretty much no doccumented instances of maces being prefered anti armour weapon on foot in general.
>>740236387>turn based game>almost any hit oneshots you>armor is meaningless>the only option is to cheese through everything
>>740246004>People in heavy armour just simply beat people in light armour.Mongols did well
>>740236387>>740236528>>740237181None of you have ever done a proper tank run before. You can high RAW damage weapons and focus on bumping health and Endurance, then get the Stone Armour literally after the second boss.>But much damage!!!!1Enemies in DS have so little health it won't matter. You make it sound like weapons don't get a massive RAW damage boost from just upgrading. It's NG+ where you need to start pumping offensive stats to give weapons good scaling. Just use high RAW weapons. Gravelord sword, Giant Blacksmith's Hammer, Quelagg's Fury Sword, Or literally any chaos/lightning weapon. the damage is more than enough. Why do you even want high DPS anyway, you're a tank, not a glass cannon>>740238504This guy has done a proper tank run before>>740238268>>And it canonically takes 10 minutes to equip/unequip but luckily no DM knows thatArtificers stay winning. Fuck your setting, I'm gonna go through my magical girl transformation and put on my Iron man suit in less than minute. You guys keep fiddling with your straps and shit. Oh and btw, all my gear have custom enchants. Imagine having to buy magical items lel could not be me
>>740249201why is the lizard dude doing air blowies?
>>740249264mongols beat heavily armored forces by attrition, not by swinging a sword
>>740249264The Mongolians were fighting the Chinese who didn't have European plate though
>>740249201equip a shield, nerd. it gives you like double defense on its own
>>740249264mongols had heavily armored lancer cavalry, basically cataphracts
>>740249406Europeans didn't have plate in 13th century either you retard
>>740249406They did come to Europe though
>>740235812it would take an incredible amount of force for a sword to penetrate plate armor AND chainmal
>>740248691>You would barely notice it if you trained at all.HEMA begs to differ, shit's tiring irl
>>740246004>People in heavy armour just simply beat people in light armour.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhaelol
>>740249502a bendy metal thing like a sword won't ever pierce a plate armor
>armor makes me invincib-ACK!
>>740249493just the tip, until they ran out of steppeand that old Ögedei dude died, o algo
>>740248691You can still develop later physical health issues even if you’re mentally and even physically able to do something. Repetitive strain and all that.
>>740249713correct me if I'm wrong but afaik the mongol horde in Europe stopped due to logistics and the mongol imperium's inner strife, not just because they ran out of steppe
while it wasn't era of plate armor it's noteworthy how the author mentions wounds a lothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWyFC5NS6lI
>>740249505Compared to carrying twice as much on your back like actual soldiers do? Yeah you barely feel it
every couple years there is some new bullshit conjecture that is repeated on the net like a gospel I remember when idiots were saying cavalry was only used against routed soldiers because horses would be afraid of charging in, ignoring the shitton of sources from all around the world on the contrary now it's>HURR SWORDS WERE LE USELESS XDis that so? Then why everyone who could buy them did so? People all around Europe, Asia, Middle East were just stupid and loved to waste their money?>m-muh status symbolnot in late middle ages where swords were much more common (of course the quality varied a lot) besides no one would carry around oversized fucking jewelry into the battle in 10 more years another shit meme will spawn about pre modern warfare, I bet something about bows this time
>>740249467 (me)and now I'm compelled to post a happy chinese dude
>>740250137interesting how he is heavier armoured than europeans at the time yet europeans are known as the heaviest armored ones (which was a thing only at the very end of the medieval period)
>>740249943I'm joking a bit of course, but it'd be interesting to see how a highly mobile mostly cavalry based force would have dealt with the heavily forested and mountainous areas of central and western europe
>>740250317the same way they dealt with conquering mountainous georgia and armenia, they were by no means constrained to flat territories otherwise they would never make it outside of Mongolia proper
>>740244365>poorfag fanfictionKnights ran medieval warfare
>>740244365some noble shitters yes, but before the peasantry learned to hook the knights off their horses with polearms it was rather onesided
>>740250498>georgia and armeniaI must admit I'm not familiar with that part of the mongol invasions. Now I have some reading to do.
>>740249605He only lost because his opponent's speed was superior.
>>740250976if you like to read books, I recommend the Mongol saga by Conn Iggulden. It has a fun mix of fiction and history, about the rise of Temujin to Gengis Khan.It's in no way authentic but entertaining. Also the movie Mongol.
>>740251104>>740250976my bad, it's not mongol saga. Conqueror series by Conn Iggulden.>Wolf of the Plains>Lords of the Bow>Bones of the Hills>Empire of Silver>Conqueror
>>740249505You get tired faster, but anon's point is that you won't suddenly generate exploding knees, since it isn't just a fat lump of shit sitting on your back.
>>740245746its so fucking weird that we got realistic armor vs sword in a fucking souls game of all games
>>740251285More of a full-body RSI deal.
>>740249605>gets reanimated by a necromancer into a skeleton minion
>>740249350artificer has been banned in every game I've played
>>740251328Sekiro is more like a metroidvania with soulslike elements
>>740250317The mongols came back later and the Hungarians beat them handily because they did their research: stone castles and heavy knights
>>740251564I'd only call it a souls-like in that you resurrect at a checkpoint
>>740235812Funny how the Nioh games while being action games also get armor and weight better than other fantasy games simply by adding the toughness mechanic.
>>740235812Literally too complicated for devs to wrap their head around and study vs "ok the player has an hp bar just like games have had for like 45 years, only there are modifiers that affect what damages it." It should be more like a roll for either you get penetrated (heh) or you don't. Crumple/crush should also be a thing from games and clubs etc. the weak spots typically are ok the armpits, neck etc and for the average strength dude the better armor was not easy to pen at all since it was designed that everything glances and is swept away from vitals towards edges with lips on them to catch the blade etc. I myself don't understand shit about this but know enough to know it is a deeply lost art along with whatever medieval melee combat was actually-like vs the rollslop/parryslop meta. Then again asking devs to study and incorporate realism in armor is like asking them to learn how guns fucking work, it's a big star feature to have a dev who understands weapons better than Bethesda's 8-year-old doodle fallout guns. And it is too complicated to ask a player to aim for weak points and actually think about where and how he swings, ultimately. This is shit for kids and manchildren and their whole lives they are used to push button -> attack and it will do something. It would be pearls before swine because the average gamer does not know jack shit about this any more than the average dev and would think it's weird or shitty that most of your attacks do absolutely nothing to a plate guy and get mad and say it's a shit game for tryhards.
>>740245746RRRRRROOOOOOBBBBBEEERRRRRTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo.........
>>740248835I hope to correct this with my next project.In fact, if you have any blunt weapon you'd like to see represented I'd love to hear it because I need more.I've got enough polearms already.
>>740238268>dex max for 4 ac at level 1>get 12 ac armor with max dex modifier >equip shield for 2 more ac>20 AC level 1
>>740251492>artificer is le betterMaybe some people enjoy the roleplaying fantasy or a warrior or barbarian and don't want to just pick le shitty minmaxer class?I don't even know what the fuck an artificer is supposed to represent but it looks like another generic mongrel class with no real fantasy.
>>740251914It's not about the variety really for me, as long as there's a few of every sort. More about the role of the weapons and how they differ in animations and sounds.Vermintide 2 for example does it rather well, you really notice the weight and speed differences in the animations and enemy reactions.Unlike games like Dying Light where a sword is just a faster baseball bat that dismembers instead of explodes
>>740244131You're only pulling that off with a bunch of "HE GOT ARMOR, GET HIM!" dudes.1v1 with armor is just laughable.
>>740251971Artificers are alchemists and gadgeteers
>>740252059Making new animations is a pain, bro.
>>740251971artificers are warcraft gnomes basically, they have some laughable bullshit that contradicts with basic fantasy elements.I mean, if an artificer can make a hand grenade, then why aren't there cannons and tanks everywhere?
>>740252094Nowhere near as fun and kick-ass as warriors or barbarians.They need to stop making these unfun gimmick classes OP to sell more books.
>>740249605>barb caltropGenuinely fucking evil. I cringe even looking at itImagine stepping on that and having to pull it out
>>740252215I've had to pull out some fishing hooks out of my skin and while it's possible, it's not fun at all. You have to jam it in first, then to the opposite side of the barb and then out. Or you can push it through so the barb comes out from the exit wound and then you can cut it off. Can't do the push-through method with a caltrop
>>740238268>Rogue maxes DEX>gets as much defense as a plate clad warrior but ALSO gets all the benefits of having high DEX>said plate clad warrior is forced to pump STR which doesn't have half of the benefits of having high DEXI HATE THIS FUCKING MEME
>>740235812Well the implication is that everyone is superhuman, as a regular human cannot defeat a bear-tier animal with a sword, only a group of humans with spears could. So when you swing your sword and kill an ogre, it implies you're swinging with such force that metal plating could be sliced open with your might.
>>740252060>>740244131the good old Battle Brothers shank party!
>>740250239We've got to start by the fact that most people wore whatever they could afford.A guy with a full set of lamellar armor would've been pretty rich for the time.
>>740252148why don't they have companies of artillery wizards?why isn't everyone a cleric for free food & healthcare in a post scarcity world that'd be the envy of Star Trek?
>>740252148There were hand grenades in real life for centuries before the invention of the first firearms.
>>740235812Luckily this was solved in Half Sword
>>740252483for rogue to get high attack with dex he has to use light weapons for sneak attack, or use feats to overcome the limitations.Feats are incredibly valuable.But yes, depending on edition, martial dudes like fighters get shafted hard while gimmick shits and casters steamroll them in the end>>740252729Yes but Artificers can do metallurgy magic and skip all the irl development that happened between firebombs and cannons
>>740252338A fishing hook is like a faction of the size and for entirely different purposes and functions in how the barb is applied as well.A caltrop, when they were used, were scattered by enemies for foot troops or cavalry to march over. You'd be slamming a lot of weight onto quite a big spike going through far more than just skin. You'd be limping for days if you step on one of those, assuming it didn't maim you up permanently or dead from infectionImagine trying to pull that out of a horse or camel's foot . Or imagine having to yank it out of your own because you're being ambushed
>>740246817There is. You allow a high poise number to let you get away without flinching from a hit based on how much DAMAGE the enemy is doing. If it's not a lot of damage, you can continue to poise through low-damage attacks.This can also be made more interesting. In later levels, the player who has gotten comfortable with poising through low damage attacks can be tricked into taking a lot of damage from enemies that do many low-damage attacks but build up to a lot of damage from a full combo. If the player isn't flinching, they're more likely to take the full combo.
>>740235812Are you expecting armor to just be a take 0 damage because youre wearing metal?
>>740252981>Imagine trying to pull that out of a horseI think I'd rather die and probably would die if I were to try. Horses are scary as hell. One of the most beautiful animal on the planet, and smart too. Watching one suffer would make me want to kms
>>740252748Cool to see a game where the real danger is more in getting glanced than in actual strikes. It's the wounds after the battle that get ya if the instant death on a strike doesn't.
>>740253002This also prevents scenarios of being staggerlocked by weak enemies.https://youtu.be/gObqBc50qvk
>>740235812Works on my machine.
>>740253107
>>740253363>benzo drunk simulator but without the good feels of being benzoed up
>>740253474Please be patient the player character is a dead amnesiac negromancer with autism.
>>740249201pic not related?
>>740252772I don't know, man. Can you really figure out the formula for blackpowder, logistics, and ballistics with metallurgy magic?Most of this stuff doesn't even involve metal.
>>740235812When you read historical sources people talk about armor failing and axes or swords breaking through it or arrows penetrating breastplates and helms. Modern reproductions are better than the originals. Charles the Bold died from someone cleaving through his helmet with a halberd.
>>740253375
>>740254121True enough. But since it's DnD, it's all up to the DM.I played a create-magic-item wizard once and I had a satchel full of quarter staves that had fireballs enchanted on them. Basically drawing a staff, unloading the fireball spell enchanted upon it, then draw a new one.That shit costs a lot of gold and XP though.
>>740245787>>740246004>no one talks about taking a shit penalty while wearing heavy armor
>>740254147halberd is something entirely different.It's an axe and a hammer and spear in one and because of its length the striking tip moves way faster than any smaller weapon.If a regular battle axe hits like a bicycle vs pedestrian, a halberd is more like a car vs pedestrian
>>740238960>turn piercing and sladhing damage into bludgeoning damageReplace piercing and slashing to hits to grazes and you have Pillars of Eternity. which also uses a deflection stat along with an armor value
>>740235812In Exanima armor is crucial for surviving long term. Attacks reduce your HP like in other games, which you can regenerate out of combat, but hits can also wound you, permanently reducing your max HP. The better armored the hit body part is, the smaller the wound and the less likely you'll get wounded. In full plate armor, normal weapons can't wound you at all, and only big monsters etc can actually cause wounds.
>>740254147Richard III died the same way but through repeated blows to the head. It's even speculated that the fatal blow was from a billhook or a polearm that slashed his skull through his head protection, chipping away a piece of his skull and exposing his brain. And then getting daggered by the lower left side of his head.
>>740254147And there was also the knight who got shot in the helmet point blank by a pistol and was fine
>>740256209There is also no deep wounds in other places of his body, meaning plate armor DOES work. Except when you're being brained over and over again by halberds and other weapons on the head then no amount of plate will save you.
>>740237181Giant dad says hi
>>740254147According to some video I watched on YT, plate armour before firearms used to be much thinner, and even thinner away from the centre, down to as little as 0.5mm.
>>740256858the center doesnt' have to be thick if the shape is right. The plate is never meant to absorb the hit, instead it deflects the strike to one side or the other. That's why the ornamental designs also faded away to obscurity because the ornaments catch the tip of a spear and when the tip of the spear isn't sliding away, then it's going to push through.
>>740257051Yeah. But a solid hit from a direction the thinnest plate isn't designed for can crush through plate. Like when you're down on the ground which acts like an anvil.
>>740257361If you can get a knight in a position where you can do that it's probably better to capture and ransom him at that point.
>>740257631this, killing a knight would be akin to killing a fighter pilot nowadays. There's way more value in keeping him alive for information and ransom
>>740243783HUGE GOBLIN JUGS
>>740236387You should play any of the Pathfinder games seeing as how they've already implemented what you're proposing as the default. >negatives of heavy armor such as skill check penalties and low to no dex bonus are offset by higher fighter class features >armor provides chance of spell failure for arcane casting only (not divine, though they have radically different spell lists) which can only be offset by heavy feat investment in a feat heavy system>light armor is vastly superior for most dex heavy characters >medium armor is superior for most non-fighter martials or even hybrids
>>740259850bruh that's just pretty much basic DnD features, not entirely exclusive to Pathfinder. 3.5E already does most of those and the feat and class feature lists are one little homebrew away
As I grow older, I have learned to appreciate and separate gaming conventions from authenticity and hardcore immersion, especially the latter, because frankly most attempts to it are not very fun imo. Especially in cases like bannerlord where mods like RBM attempts to make combat realistic just results in the making the game tedious and slow to an immense crawl.>elite tier knights, god help you if they're on a horse, are practically invincible and even with a mace you need to bonk them a dozen times in the head to kill. Now try doing that in a pitched battle with hundreds of soldiers tightly locked together>blunt weapons are the only weapons that can damage anyone normally but their inherent low damage means fights take forever>swords and bladed weapons have the highest base damage but are practically useless because blades can't cut through metal and troops starting wearing chainmail at tier 3 or so. Sure you can use the pointy part to stab but good luck doing that when the enemy has a shield>spears and pikes are only decent in defensive positions but once lines clash, they just get you stuck and get killed>lances one hit kill everything, now pair that with an invincible knight on a horseSo long story short, implementation of "realistic" armor this way is just tedium for tedium's sake. I wouldn't want silly stuff like swords visually cleaving someone in metal plate, but all weapons should still be viable. Either that, or make armor itself very very rare
>>740261324>>blunt weapons are the only weapons that can damage anyone normally but their inherent low damage means fights take forever>inherent low damagegee I wonder if the mod author has some sort of biasa mace is a solid steel chunk, there's no "inherently low damage" there.It's like getting hit in the face with a fist, but the fist is made of metal and it's attached to a shaft. It will break your skull or chin unless there's something solid between you and the mace head
>>740261324both hardcore realism and simple arcadey fun have their place as long as the rest of the game supports itin your bannerlord example, having heavy cavalry would be much more tolerable if the realism mod went all in: having trenches, spike palisades, caltrops, the ability to dismount knights with hooked polearms, wrestling, arrows sliding into armor gaps, etc...
>>740235812>armour doesnt decrease damage received.>armour works like a glorified dodge. Why cant armour work like armour?Only fallout 1 and 2 made armour work rightish
>>740261760maces in the game are the types with relatively small but still weighted heads. Sure it can do damage, but it's nothing special to german steel blades folded 1000 times that are only good for cutting down unarmored peasants.>>740262016That's the thing, most realism mods don't consider how the game or the game engine itself is balanced so what ends up is the player just gaming around these limitations and it becomes less about realism and playing with numbers.Very few games actually have mechanics like you mentioned, like being able to target weak links in an enemy's armor. You just get enemies with a hitbox that you hit with a weapon.
>>740244651>Did 2e turn into rocket tag where enemies had such insane stats that they would basically always hit?pretty muchit went the other way for saving throws against status effects making everything that relied on a saving throw close to worthless
I'm most familiar with 3.5 and Pathfinder rules, so heavy armor is ass "but what about flat foot AC" just don't be caught flat footed in your pajama tank with 4 different multiclasses
>>740263069also lmao @ being flat-footed in a game where you have party members
>>740259850Heavy armor is complete and utter piece of shit garbage in Pathfinder tho. On any difficulty higher than tourist that is. Lategame all your AC comes from dex+billion enchantments+spells.It's decent-ish in early game but that's about it. Pajama-tanking is the way to go.
>wearing armorLMAO
FNV damage threshold is as simple as it gets and god it feels good
>>740264284tranny post, no one plays that tranny gametranny
>>740236387See this is why we can't have nice things- we have a medium that allows you to just go Okay this is how it works- and then you build your reasoning inside that fiction, but no we have to have this faggery where everything is based on something that someone more creative made up or you base it on real life to own the people who aren't HEMA and history spergs INVENT SHIT. We are talking about the most anything goes medium in existence. >Why can't I wear all this armor? >because it's reactive armour powered by your psychic ability, packing on too much will make you go blind >ok badass it's that easy. Scale it up and quit slurping from the bottom of the creativity barrel
>>740236528Before I grow old I want a third person game where you move like a fighter jet and can shot out of the air by a single stray projectile I can't describe how sick I am of healthbars and fucking numbers How about I get hit for 7 out of my 10 hp and not 124195915 out of 91359125919519519 HP One thing I want to see happen is a game trying to curb tryharding and metafagging by just NOT giving everyone numbers sheets and a fucking WIKI. How about just once a game tries to emulate real life combat by saying no, no you can't have a fucking writeup down to the decimals of how much damage your weapon will do against every type of armour
>>740237181In every level you get progessively better and heavier armor.
>>740267379Like boys is it gay to be cool with dying in a chaotic game and not knowing exactly why? Is it gay to not want to min/max and flex on other people how long you spent watching guides on youtube and sleuthing on the fucking wiki? If you hit me with a red hot projectile that looks like it would melt steel beams, SHOW ME A HOLE CLEAN THROUGH MY CHARACTER, PLEASE. If I sneak up behind someone and charge a heavy attack with my two meter long sword, LET'S SEE THAT MOTHERFUCKER DIE. If a guy is in the floor on his fucking belly, DO NOT MAKE HIM IMMUNE TO HITS. Don't make me do a ten second long animation finishing him off, just let me kill him.
>>740267772Honorary mention for bladed weapons knocking you down or repelling you. Remember who you are, gamer. Reject 12399 damage, retvrn to getting cut in half.
>>740263738or you just stacked two stat to AC sources on top of DEX, now you got like 90 AC meanwhile John Fighter has 50 in a +5 Adamantine Full Plate
>>740246539I don't care what gaben has to say but you are correct and that's why you're not getting (you)s
>>740246605>>740246264But we usually accept that combat in games doesn't have a ticking clock of exhaustion. And that's a good thing. It's enough that heavy armour makes you slow, in most cases.
>>740249505HEMA is tiring because it's not practiced by real martial artists, soldiers, or men desu
>>740268303exhaustion is also annoying. Look at how much better soulslikes are that don't have stamina bars.
>>740261324The most fun I ever had in a Mount & Blade game was this insane mod with shonen weeb shit where I could leap across the map and swing a three meter neon katana to instakill giant bowmen
>>740267379FUCK armored core by the way for these reasons alone. Fuck it for other reasons too, stupid boringified gameI'll never forgive the japanese.
Imagine being the blacksmiths of these fictitious universes and everyone criticizes you because your armor isn't shrugging off attacks from demigods, dragons, eldritch demons or Godzilla sized kaiju?
>>740269089>the blacksmith who makes all your shit used to be a hero like you but doesn't talk about it no mo >k-kino...
>>740251914>In fact, if you have any blunt weapon you'd like to see represented I'd love to hear it because I need more.Not him, but if you're still there, I want kanabo representation. It's my favorite blunt weapon.
>>740238268Another reason why DnD is shit. Compare it to a good RPG like Mythras where a guy in full plate is a beast, and a big shield makes you even harder to touch.
>>740269089I'd settle for it stopping a butter knife but alas even that is too powerful for the smith's finest wares
AC is a retarded concept.
>>740235812Thread's gonna get archived because anons are sleepy reddit crpg fags
>>740235812Probably because it is way better than the alternative in terms of game design.
