Let's deep dive into the downfall of Final Fantasy as a series. Which game designers and programmers assigned to it left Square after IX? Because as much as I love X (it's my fave), it was kind of the beginning of the end for FF. Hallway levels, no overworld, incremental levelling, etc. Then the atrocity that was XIII happened, then it was pretty much unsalvageable from there (for the non-MMO shit anyway).
VII was pure 3d spectacle that the masses hadn't seen. The novelty wore off by 2000.
>>740241406i think we can make a clear split after FFX when the original creator leftafter that it was merely licensed fanfiction made to print money by creatively bankrupt peopleand if we look before that i think choices were influenced a lot by technology hence the differences between 6-7-8
>>740242316The clear split can be placed at VIII. Thats when Kitase got full control of a game.Arguably you could say the split started at VI or VII
>>740242540>at VI or VII
>>740242540Anyone who legit argues 6, 7, 8, or 10 are bad games and 'the downfall of FF' is a fool. FF didn't die when it leaned into the story focus that began in 2 and 4, nor with 3D. You need to separate your personal taste for job games from an objective judgement of the franchise. Final Fantasy first started getting pushback as a franchise with Spirits Within, but as a videogame franchise specifically it started with 12 and only solidified with 13. Before then it was a golden goose.
>>740242732VI is when Kitase got more control over the series, to Sakamoto's displeasure. I think it's a stretch to put the line at VI but it's not without merit.VII is when they got obsessed with cinematic retardation that plagues the series to this day
>>740242930>Anyone who legit argues 6, 7, 8, or 10 are bad gamesI said nothing of the sort. The anon I replied to said she thinks you can draw a clear split on the series at FFX, I said its at FFVIII. I like FFVIII but I dislike most of Kitase's creative decisions and VIII was when he was first given enough power to do what he wanted. And its why Sakaguchi took creative power back for IX (which then went to sell way less than VIII). I also love X despite that being a Kitase joint. I didnt read the rest of your post because your first sentence was already so retarded and full of assumptions that I didnt have high hopes for the rest of it.
>>740243270>he didn't get itUnc...
>>740243478Update: I read the rest of the post and yeah, it was filled with more retard babble and assumptions about my tastes
>>740243478A shift in direction is not the downfall of a franchise. Equating Kitase with death is a bias that isn't remotely reflected in the success and quality of FFX. Sitting here and saying 'u dum' at me is not a counterargument.
>>740243635>success and qualityQuality is subjective. I really like XII and think it's one of the better FF games. In regards to FFXII's success, in what ways do you measure success? It both sold and reviewed well, but both of those mean nothing to me. Plenty of bad games sell well and review well.You're a retard because you're drawing lines based on vibes and feels when personnel and leadership wise theres a clear spilt starting with FFVIII.Kitase has FFX under his belt but he also has XIII, which was made by largely the same creative team.
>>740243635>Sitting here and saying 'u dum' at me is not a counterargument.Its not, but the rest of the post you conveniently ignored is, dummy
>>740244005Sales and public reception. 12 is when public reception started taking a downturn, which is why I mention it as the point things started looking down. 13 is when people actually got loud about disliking things, though.
>>740244116>12 is when public reception started taking a downturn, which is why I mention it as the point things started looking downHow would you know that when you weren't even alive when FFXII came out? It was controversial, sure, but the overall response was positive.
>>740244116Were you even sperm in your dads nutsack yet when 12 was released? How would you know?>the internet told mePeople barely used the internet back then
>>740241406there was no downfall, jrpgs were only popular because they were movie games before movie games existed. movie games exist now and theres no reason to play a textbox simulator when you can just watch the movie
>>740244268>>740244384I am in my mid-30's, anon. I very distinctly remember FF12 because I had my parents buy me the metal case.
Final Fantasy in 2026
>>740244116>game reviewed and sold well>s-sales and public p-perception were bad because I said soKill yourself
>>740244657It was thought of less positively than 10, so yes, it was the start of a problem. There's a very clear throughline in all your posts that you find any criticism of 12, even very mild and from the perspective of reception and not quality, to be completely intolerable. Very clear bias, there.
>>74024426810 was damn dude ff10 was a good game you have to play it. You have a ps2 and like jrpgs get that game.12 was well that came out i guess. While people werent shitting on it nobody gave a fuck. Hell it might as well been unknown at the time. Word of mouth was minimal.
>>740242316>The clear split can be placed at VIII. Lol nope. Regardless of what you think of 8, it was a 100% finished game that checked all boxes required for a real FF.There's a very clear reason why 10 is considered by most to be the split: that's exactly the point after which the franchise (in order of importance):A) stopped releasing finished games.B) stopped focusing on new mainline entries and started churning out constant rehearses (remasters, remakes, reboots, prequels, sequels, interquels...) of old glories.C) stopped having any definite identity aside from just having Cid and Chocobos.
>>740245921you replied to the wrong person
>>740245921>Regardless of what you think of 8, it was a 100% finished game Lmfao good one>B) stopped focusing on new mainline entries and started churning out constant rehearses (remasters, remakes, reboots, prequels, sequels, interquels...) of old glories.This was because of Yoichi Wada and is the reason Sakaguchi left, contrary to popular belief it wasnt because of Spirits Within
>>740245921>it was a 100% finished gameI see we're just telling bold faced lies now
In retrospect its clearly 10 but i know people who loved 7 bought 8 and couldnt finish it and didnt even consider buying 9 or if they did it was years later. 8 turned people off with its gf and junction shit.
>>740245921>Regardless of what you think of 8, it was a 100% finished game
>>740241406Playing IX again after putting it down for a while I still say that game is the worst. I’m playing it on Switch and it’s still not as good as I remembered. I hate how you have to constantly pause to use the speed up or no encounter function. Not only that but everything takes long to load. Battles, going into locations for the first time or even going into the airship just to switch party members. I think FF9 deserved the remake treatment more than FF7. Vivi is the only saving grace about it.
>>740242316Minor Detail but I like how FF6 and FF7 had Side/Pincer Attacks, it added more depth and strategy to battles. Dunno why they ditched it at FF8. It’s the little things nobody talks about.
Sakaguchi hated Kitase and FFVIII so much that he took over again for FFIX
>>740241406>Which game designers and programmers assigned to it left Square after IX?I don't think it has anything to do with the oldheads and everything to do with the gaming climate and Enix merger.There was an invasive demographic of 'new' gamers in the mid 2000's with the advent of the iPhone and emphasis on inter-connectivity. As such, markets evolved to factor this influx of buyers and the design philosophy shifted towards episodic ventures to maximize shareholder value (XIII trilogy, XV episodes, VII Remake episodes, etc.) and GAAS slop (XIV). Games made after XII were stripped of their souls in favor of making money. Quite literal caricatures which are Final Fantasy in name only.There was also digital packaging which allowed developers to support their games with bug fixes and content updates long after a game's release, where previously they released as-is and without modification. This tenuously existed throughout the PS2 era as not everyone had online capability for their consoles but was fully fledged in the PS3 era.The Enix merger was the single most damaging blow dealt to the company. It caused the mass exodus of talent. It shows that XII was the last great Final Fantasy title, as it was in development prior to the merger and simply released under the banner of Square Enix.>>740242316Sakaguchi is not as consequential as you think he is. He made a game under Mistwalker that was generic, forgettable tripe (Last Story) which lacked all of the pedigree of a mainline Final Fantasy game. >>740242540If you're going to fellate Kitase, he was prime leadership in X as well.>>740244763>It was thought of less positively than 10Dumb nigger. If you're going to pull anecdotal bullshit, Famitsu rated X 39/40. XII got a perfect score of 40/40. The only mainline title to receive that.
>>740243270>VII is when they got obsessed with cinematic retardation that plagues the series to this dayIs that why they migrated to the PlayStation when Nintendo stuck to cartridges for the N64?
>>740246571People who praise 9 like it was a return to form are people who started with 9, not people who started with 1-5. The only way in which someone can even claim it's more like 1-5 is that it's got a cartoony style, but that wasn't how 1-5 presented themselves at all and was instead a graphical limitation.
>>740247350Nobody respects Famitsu reviews.
>>740248913>Nobody respects Famitsu reviews.Nobody respects your opinion. Move the goalposts all you like, but that is literally what was argued. Substantiate your claims instead of posting drivel next time:>from the perspective of reception and not quality
>>74024426812s general reception wasn't much different from 16s, if you liked it good for you, but it failed to make a real impact for people who aren't already invested in the series (whether you think that impact is negative or not) and its strongest effect on the industry was just a more popular release taking stuff from it (DA with gambits)
>>740247350FFXIII got a 39 from famitsu, their ratings mean jack shit
Worst iteration of these fuckers? Also remember to brush your teeth and never do drugs or else you’ll end up like these creatures.
12 was fucking boring. Nice story ideas, terrible world, story too thing and stretched too far across too much walking.
>>740250006>terrible worldIvalice is the only good thing about it, what are ya smokin?
>>740250428FF12 wasn't a good depiction of Ivalice, it's mostly brown fields and brown deserts and poorly done settlements. Even Dalmasca quickly becomes boring instead of feeling immersive.
>>740249905That's the reason reviews and """reception""" are fallacious arguments to fall back on. They have no credibility and no quantifiable means beyond unit sales and nonsensical numbers.I am not saying it gives the game any credence or quality whereas morons like these >>740249813 >>740244763 out themselves by citing vague metrics with no basis for claimancy.>>740250006>Nice story ideasIt's just Star Wars and that explains enough to me about your opinion.
>>740244116Pretty much this. 12 definitely showed some cracks and was certainly a the most divisive FF title (outside of 9) within the core interest group of players. 13 was when it completely went off of the rails, though.12 at least expects you to play a video game. You need to understand the combat, gambits, boards, equipment, exploring a huge world with multiple paths, etc. 13 expects you to press the confirm button a lot and look at the pretty graphics as you explore set areas with little to no exploration.
I feel like we really haven't gotten to the bottom of anything, just a bunch of observations without root cause analysis (aside from the Enix poster)
It's impressive that each new FF game after 10 gets thrown into is this the worst FF game category
>>740251861The lows just keep getting lower. I'll say this though, FF XIII-2 actually got pretty close to being "not bad", heck I'd say it's avtually serviceable, they just had to cut the pokemon shit, do an overworld,, and have a bigger party for variety
>>740244634wth lol
