>Sonic just can't work in three dimen-
This level is a fluke. The rest of the game never uses the physics in a cool way like this and the rest just give up on meaningful gameplay altogether in exchange for MINIGAMES.
i remember as a kid hearing tree tops was the worst level in the game but now its remembered very fondlyi think terrace village is seen as the worst now
>>740269006Either way this is peak platforming in all of gen 5
>>740269006Spyro 1 physics are also jank, doing these supercharge ramps feels like gambling on invisible trigger zones that determine if your jump will succeed by temporarily modifying your speed and jump height on the spotThe level designers clearly wanted to give you a sense of freedom but the way the ramps are coded has underlying hardcoded feel to it
>>740268813sonic can't work in 2 dimensions either(sonic sucks)
>>740268813The Sonic/Shadow sections of the Adventure games are unironically great but are brought down by the awful non-sonic segments, and those are most of the game so people just assume the whole game is bad
>>740268813Couldn't you have gotten to that spot easier by turning right at the third supercharge strip and then taking the ramp by the first strip?
>>740270235>peak platforming>literally just jumping back and forth between large empty runwaysgenuinely embarrassing standards. this kind of retardation is exactly why modern sonic games are designed the way they are. just make the character go fast and the set pieces look cool and you're happy. same as the brainless boost to win shit. ZOMG I'M GOING SO FAST AND I JUST JUMPED OFF A FREAKING CLOCK TOWER THIS GAME IS EPIC!!!!!!!
>>740270615Maybe this is more your speed
>>740268813Thats Spyro. Not Sonic.Use an srb2 webm next time.
>>740270702you already did your faggy little tantrum thread about mario 64 being better than spyro. you're currently in your faggy tantrum thread about sonic being better than spyro. post the wonky loop de loop from emerald coast if you're going to play this game. nobody mentioned mario.
>Mariofags don't actually like Mario games, they just have blind Nintendo loyalty and hate Spyro more
>>740268813i remember seeing a dev video that explained how to do this back thenfucking blew my mind
>>740268813let the mania devs make a 3d Sonic game
>>740270305>sonic can't work in 2 dimensions eitherwrong
>>740275074Wasnt this game a massive flop?
>>740275590every independent release is gonna be a flop unless it's made by Toby Fox
>>740275074This games camera is fucking garbage.
>>740278437>This games camera is fucking garbage.yeah they'd be perfect for a 3d Sonic game
>>740275074>wide open level>zero reason to engage with any of it>actively cutting corners and avoiding things>spamming stuttering aerial maneuversthis looks absolutely fucking awful, and doubly so to apply any of it to sonic.
What's the name of that fanmade 'open world' sonic game?
>>740282842there's like a hundred of those, you're gonna need to be more specific
>>740270235>peak platforming>running down ramps and gliding through empty airWEW lad
>>740270702mfw i tilted my cartidge
>>740282906nah there's only onesonic utopia
>>740268813Spyro was done by the US devs who worked on Sonic 2 and had enough of Sega treating them like garbage. So it makes sense that it could've been a non-trash 3d Sonic title.
>>740275074
>>740268813That might be the most retarded route I've ever seen to get to that island >>740270486Yes
>>740268813THIS is the intended solution? No wonder I dropped the game there 2 weeks ago (because fuck not getting 100% in a collectathon)
>>740285117that's a shame, it looks like a good gaem
Looks like Spyro Reignited is on sale. Would you recommend it? I've never played them before.
>>740268813
>>740288713This is the first one of these shill webms that actually shows a level
>>740268813Oh heck you're not wrong, Spyro is what a good 3D sonic game would be like. Too bad no one really copied Spyro so there is no other game like it, even the sequels just added bloat instead of focusing on movement and level design.
>>740281763>>wide open level>>zero reason to engage with any of it>>actively cutting corners and avoiding things>>spamming stuttering aerial maneuversThis is like Sonic to a T though. It's why Sonic games have kind of never been good. The adventure games being something of an exception I guess.
>>740270702>GBJ'd
>>740270702Got em
a lot of sonic 2 american devs actually worked on spyro
>>740288713>>740288795Honestly the central problem of "BUT SONIC IN 3D" largely boils down to abstraction. That game isn't afraid to make a bunch of floating ass platforms that do specific design ideas around the physics and control options available, but people complain about that in Sonic Heroes because pits everywhere and level design that tended to harshly punish you for it. Most Sonic games since the turn of 3D otherwise are either trying to be filled out spaces where they can only do so much but everything has to be corralled for a handful of consistent mechanics, or hyper linear stuff that can only be played one way, but the abstraction is mostly mechanical rather than in world design.If you could get shit like the Spin Dash ramp insanity of Frontiers' DLC Cyberspace stages and actually make it not look like a copypaste fest of the same handfuls of two floating platform objects with everything surrounding being taken from prior games, people would've probably been better receptive because that abstraction allows for more options and interesting ideas in level design, but modern Sonic Team simply doesn't have the budget or the asset pools to do that at the same time they're making big open zones to explore, or these boost levels routed through pre-existing world assets. Unsurprisingly, Shadow Generations actually pulls off some of the abstraction and it got to do more interesting level design ideas and people mostly loved it even despite linear boost gameplay! Shit we had going on in Spyro, Mario, Jumping Flash, Croc, still works and works best for arcade-y platformers unless you're making something exploration focused!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n73QdycIamE
>>740269006you're thinking of spyro 2 and 3spyro 1 is pure
>>740269006no it isn't, the issue is that it should have been in Gnasty's world as the final supercharger challenge
>>740287029The intended solution is simply quickly following the thief>>740269006It filtered me when I was 6 but I conquered it blind when I was like 10.
>>740269006Fpbp
Why not design 3d sonic levels like rhythm games.
>>740268813Sonic is already great in 3D the way it is, bitch
>>740275074I hate air dash moves in platformers. They make the level completely pointless.At least in SA the homing attack had a downwards angle.
>>740292147I prefer Sonic 06 and later games turning it into an air-dash. It saves you when you make jumps miscalculating the length, and i also especially like that games since and after 06 lets Sonic target things above his own altitude, which really saves you in a lot of cases.
>>740269006>>740270285>>740291628>>740283014Hilarious cope and seethe, this is not the kind of level you design by accident, Spyro devs were clearly operating on a level other 3D platforming devs at the time couldn't reach but had to reign themselves in because they were making a kids gameFeel free to (try to) post a 3D platforming level from that era that requires more skill, precision, timing, continuous unbroken focus, etc without relying on self-imposed challenges
>>740268813Do you know there is a game called Sonic Adventure?
>>740268813How come insomniac n shit managed to make cool fully 3d platformers with physics based and speed based systems, sega, who had more experience and more people only made a 3d sonic game a generation later?
>>740268813Someone should mod this into SRB2 (if is isn't already) to see which vanilla characters can make it
>>740288659They are ok, but it's still far better to just emulate the originals.
>>740268813>>740292407Dunno shit about SRB2, how do you import maps (here's OP)https://noclip.website/#Spyro1/53;
>>740268813that's not sonic
>>740288713It's so obviously possible, yet Sega are incompetent and hate money.
>>740269006Sonic chads the spyro troons are laughing at us...
In Sonic Adventure you don't necessarily go fast all the time. In fact you can be pretty slow and awkward if you're fumbling the controls or find something tricky. Going fast is your reward for knowing the stages and having a good understanding of the controls, and map skips are not always very obvious. They can take experimentation and trying unintentional physics glitch seeming routes until you find out the devs knew you could go this way and hid an item there for you.The stages themselves aren't at their peak, I believe beta windy valley is the direction they should have gone, including classic's high/low route design and some more well incorporated momentum. What they ended up with in Adventure 1 is still good, although 2 feels a little more linear. The notable exception to this is the space level with all the rails ironically, considering the rails are literal railroads.All this is fun. It's replayable, and there's a natural rewarding feeling for mastering the game.Sonic doesn't work in 3D now because they gave Sonic a run button, removed the physics, and removed the level design to do nothing but sprint down a corridor, or in the cast of Frontiers, around a field of floating props. They then shove you into awkward 2D sections for reasons beyond my imagination.I.e. Sonic works in 3D if you make it a fucking game and in 3D.
Best level in amy 3D platformer, if you hated it you area actually low iq because you couldn't figure out that you had to head towards the glowing light at each mountain peak
>>740288713There was a thread for this one either a day or two ago that was absolutely unhinged
>>740292054nice hallway lmao
every franchise that started 2d and went 3d. turned to shitfuck yourself OP
>>740290015There's a bit of push-and-pull when you start making a 3D world. People expect 3D things to be more true-to-life because humans tamed the natural world to be navigable to us.It's kind of overrated, but I can see why it's valued.
>>740268813The adventure games already disproved this 25 years ago anyways. Their only issue is the physics jank, which is an engine problem exacerbated by bad ports.
>>740268813>Sonic just can't work in three dimen-Sonic doesn't work in two dimensions either.Sonic games have never worked.The entire premise is flawed.
>>740292215
No. But he can
>>740268813notice how they only used this in like 2 levels in the game?it's because its not good enough to carry a game.
>>740268813In Spyro you need to hold square to do this. Sonic Team never wanted to make a Sonic game where you have to hold down a button to run at top speed. That alone answers much of the problem here. But I would also say Sonic Team is just bad at making video games. Or maybe at some point they became bad. Its ridiculous though that they just cannot make a good Sonic game and seem to only be capable of these linear straight lane with boost running Sonic games. They over emphasized the importance of his speed I think. It just needed to be faster than the standard platformers back in the day. It never had to be as ridiculously fast as a racing game or the boost Sonic games I had mentioned.
>>740296473Their level design is trash though
>>740297390>Sonic Team never wanted to make a Sonic game where you have to hold down a button to run at top speed
>>740268813>>740275074>>740288713>>740292054Do you need to have autism to think this is good gameplay?
>>740296626Everyone who says stuff like this has either never played them or just sucked shit at the brief moment of the game they tried
>>740297465But can you still run fast without holding the button? In Spyro what the OP webm is showing is Spyro relying on a speed boost gimmick as well as holding down the running charge attack. So in Spyro you don't even need to hold up on your stick or d-pad in order to maneuver around effectively. Can you do this in Sonic?
>>740297556Yeah this makes me realize what I said was in fact what I more a less though. The team making these Sonic games are just incapable of making anything good out of the IP because they probably just suck at making games. Its easy to see that a 3D Sonic game could have been great if it was in the hands of a more competent developer. I think they all look fun minus the last Sonic webm. This one in particular looks cool I never seen this >>740288713
>>740292054this looks mindnumbingly boring
>>740297629>But can you still run fast without holding the button?Not in Frontiers
>>740297415SA2 speed levels are great.
How did GODrio get it right on the first try in an era where the standard had yet to be set?
>>740298103Alright I guess I would just need to play or look up these games again to get familiar. I figured they kept the general idea of a Sonic game going for the last 20 years with minimal changes. Every time I see it discussed on here one thing I often will see in criticism of the games is that Sonic controls like shit in regards to the physics feeling too uncontrollable.
>>740298401In the most recent game (Shadow Gens) you can move at 50 m/s without boosting and 60 m/s when boosting.
>>740298316It's kind of simple I think, Nintendo just realized that 2D and 3D have different expectations, and responded to most of the questions that dynamic brings up with the correct answers.
>>740298186They are just hallways tho
>>740298316They didn't, there's like two good levels, Mario controls like a boat, and the lack of a dedicated camera analog is a war crime
>>740298701That's not a huge boost in speed. OP's thread is disingenuous anyways. He cherry picked that one cool Spyro level in Misty Bog. I think it was called Tree Top Hill. As one anon pointed out you don't do that in most of the other levels. But Spyro still had plenty of other fun levels besides that one. Its a much better 3D platformer than any 3D Sonic I played.
>>740275074Maybe they should have pushed for a Sonic game with this engine instead of trying to do a new IP without properly marketing it.>>740275590Yes it was. They couldn't just coast off their dev name, they needed to actually know what made Sonic work across the board, not just how he plays but his design cues and especially how to market him. SEGA got that right consistently.
>>740292505trvke - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gPBmDptqlQ
>>740270702This game is such an unpolished piece of shit.
>>740292505This requires the Sonic devs needing to have the skill to actually make good level design. They can't do it.
>>740298975>That's not a huge boost in speedYeah, but your acceleration is really slow while boosting is instant
>>740288713>It took a goonbait game for them to actually make a real 3D Sonic gamelmao
>>740300664hey, if it works.
>>740283435Sonic Utopia?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmhjqLxRIPs
>>740296626>The entire premise is flawedThat's why Pizza Tower and the DKC series were successes, right?
>>740300664>goonDie
>>740298316It took them until like 2013 to make a good 3D Mario game
>>740301305Make me.
>>740275261Best Sonic game
>>740301818Already did, enjoy
>>740268813um no sweaty that's not sonic...
>>740301305sorry I meant fap
>>740302250Okay, see you next thread.
he's going to make anon explode like a fist of the north star goon next thread
>>740296626>"The entire premise is flaw-ACK"
>>740296739This is just Sonic but with a gun and grunge aesthetic
>>740303349what
>>740306072He is already dead
>>740292737SRB2 is just souped-up Doom, and you have to design your levels Doom-style. Making floor-over floors and slopes are a pain in the arse and doing something like pic-related was already challenging enough. The best is to re-create the level from scratch.
>>740292505this doesnt work either. this looks cool until you realize the player had to repeat this hundreds of times until they got it all memorized
>>740296626Reminder that you never played the game and you faggots were calling it "hold right to win" before a youtuber gave you this opinion
>>740306194How can you die if you're already dead?
>>740306473>implying that's not how all sonic slop is played
>>740306820yeah and they both suck
>>740306473To be fair you can only blindly go fast if there is no obstacles or insanely telegraphed obstacles or it's on rails and you can't fuck up unless you try
Thoughts on Spark 3?God i hate this webm, i got all the time medals and i can't stand how slow the webm maker is playing
>>740268813This level filtered me I'm not afraid to say it
>>740307074which sucks. the only way i see this working in a "fun" way is if the game basically makes the "speed run" the path back. you have to play the level as a regular platforming to make it to the end, so youve got a decent idea of how the level is shaped, then you reverse it and have to sanic yourself back to the start. that way the "first" time you race it, you already know roughly whats ahead. to make it not so much of a boring slog on replays, maybe as you platform it forwards, you can alter the level geometry, basically craft yourself the return trip, the better you are at the game the better path you can construct, and the faster you can return.
>>740307557That means you still know what to expect though, which just feels like replaying the level with extra stepsWould still give it a go though
>>740307287Spark 3 is how boost Sonic games should play
>>740307748>just replayingyeah. i dont see any other way around it. youd just have to add a bunch of something on the way back. enemies? maybe some sections of the return randomly switched out for segments that dont take too long to memorize? have 30 different connecting segments that get injected between the familiar parts?but just pure, high speed map navigation completely blind? maybe impossible to make fun ever without it becoming a memorization game.
>>740307287spark is pretty good, its also the most accomplished of all the indie sonics.
>>740299253i therorize they did this on purpose so they can get funding for a better physics engine
>>740298316they were the first and they had lot of time, experience and money as a first party dev
>>740307287its great. just wish the combat sections added his running speed for quick attacks.
Sonic Team actually nailed it on their first try, but they decided not to go with it for whatever reason.This has all of the elements of Sonic 3. Branching paths, rewards for using dashes and abilities, props, enemy chaining to get to a higher path, etchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nvdP6Xu6Xg
>>740312334The level looks pretty fun, it just lacks a lot of the nuances of the 90's titles.It doesn't need to be super smooth like those, I just think you need to gain speed if you land on a curved ramp like those games.Maybe if they went this direction as opposed to a focus on spectacle they'd've done it.
