>>740272001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmicv_mPvnA

>in the series
now compare it to a game made by an actual good developer

>>740272001
the last point is debatable with how much was removed after daggerfall

>>740272087
There are no better open world first person rpgs. Whatever games you're thinking of are either worse, or not the same genre at all.

>>740272001
>>Best combat in the series
LMAO opinion ignored, no need to read the rest

>>740272190
Fair enough. I haven't played the earlier games.
>oho they're better
Unlikely I'd find them better because first person rpgs for me need to hit a graphical/artistic threshold to inspire immersive awe for me. I don't think Daggerfall or Arena could ever do that for me. All the games from Morrowind on do that for me, so I do like them all.

>>740272196
might and magic 6, wizardy 8

Gamespy was gay

>>740272082
Looks really cool
>>740272237
by far too

>>740272196
first person and open world are negative aspects for an rpg, as is being action based and single character
this is why bethestards are a joke in rpg communities

>>740272082
looks like shit

>>740272310
Haven't played either but I believe you control a party in both, not solo character
>followers
Not really in Morrowind, not a defining gameplay feature of any Bethesda fantasy rpg

Also this is perhaps only true for me, but I said here that
>first person rpgs for me need to hit a graphical/artistic threshold to inspire immersive awe for me.
and I don't think Might and Magic games would do that for me, though I do sort of plan to play some of them someday. I really love Heroes of Might and Magic 3

>>740272190
Out of the things listed, I'd say only DF does character creation a bit better, and my gripes are minor. I wish they had kept the weaknesses, bonuses and XP gain system intact, but a lot of the things that were cut (namely the language skills) were fairly extraneous. Climbing could have been kept, but it didn't really have a lot of uses in Morrowind, whereas loads of DF dungeons had vertical walls that non-mage characters would be annoyed at having to circle around, instead of just go straight up. Mages, obviously, could just levitate.

>>740272385
morrowind combat is just potion drinking simulator with occasional exploiting of AI and their ranged attacks

>>740272427
lol, what rpg communities are those?
>first person and open world are negative aspects for an rpg
>as is being action based and single character
Look if you like rts games or something and hate rpgs then that's cool, but this is a specific genre of game we're talking about. FPS games might be cool too. I wouldn't know. I'm not talking about whatever specific RPG you have in mind. Maybe you're a text rpg purist. I'm sure that's cool. Not really something you'd bring up to compare though

>>740272519
>Might and Magic
>Heroes of Might and Magic 3
you need to be 18 to post here.

>>740272427
Wrong on all 4 counts

>>740272001
>Best combat in the series
lol
>Best questing in the series
lmao
>Best (by far) main quest
even

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>>740272001
>Best graphics in the series
graphics are shit but it looks surprisingly better when you downsize the textures

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>>740272082
So is this going to be used for anything or is it just a tech showcase

>>740272427
CRPGs are a joke no matter what because roleplaying outside of tabletop is all in your head. No matter how in-depth a video game is, everything was still decided for you ahead of time. 99% of the roleplaying you can do in a video game is going to be self-constraint and headcanon. If you don't like the gameplay that's fine, but a game having some extra dialogue options or skillchecks does not mean it's better at the roleplaying part than any other.
There is a negligible difference in your ability to RP between Arcanum and Skyrim.

>>740272568
It's not perfect but I'll list some pros
>Collecting, preserving, and choosing to use or not use items from the world will matter hugely via scrolls, potions, and enchanted items
This is very RPG and it allows you to customize your playstyle in a roleplay environment. If you think it's stupid to be able to kill anything after drinking enough alcohol then don't do it. If you think it's stupid that you can make and carry 1000 healing potions then don't do it.
>way more magical options
Just makes it more fun. I was pretty into the combat on my first playthrough when I encountered that guy on the bridge to the first dwarven ruin. After dying a few times my level 1 high elf mage summoned a ghost to fight off his skeletons, and levitated off to the side of the bridge to shoot fireballs directly at him. It was cool, and better than combat in the other elder scrolls games. You can play around with lots of different spells and effects and it takes advantage of the alchemy and spellmaking and enchanting systems in the game so that if you know what you're doing you can do a lot, this was limited in future games.
>quick and dangerous is better than slogs
Morrowind balances damage by manipulating or not manipulating hit/miss chance or other dice roll effects. That's RPG and it's better than just bashing something over and over and over until it dies. Morrowind combat has good feedback too, you really feel like you crack something when you land a big melee attack and see their hp drop by about 50%.

I personally like using inventory and spell lists and menus and stuff to select my next move, but you can do whatever you like. Don't use certain potions, only carry x amount, turn the difficulty way up, restrict or enhance your character however you like. It's up to you that's the point

>>740272625
same publisher, teams (in some cases), and game universe. what are you reacting to here?

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>>740272829
This looks retarded. 3D models and pixelation that heavy don't look right together at all. I'm not sure what this is trying to look like, but it definitely doesn't resemble Arena or Daggerfall in any way.

>>740272903
This is wrong, and with tabletop roleplaying you are forced to roleplay with other people, which is a completely different and not comparable experience. Most people are cringe faggots. I make up my own roleplay story for my character in my game by myself on my own and experience it alone. I like it better that way.

>>740272829
Now add a crt shader and we might be getting somewhere

>>740272903
we have different ideas of what roleplaying means
and your idea of roleplaying (choices and consequences) is fucking night and day in arcanum vs skyrim (or morrowind)

>>740272931
let's not pretend that money, scrolls or potions are hard to come by in morrowind. morrowind combat is way too basic considered good and it is only a stat & resource check

you can intentionally nerf yourself to make it "harder" but it doesn't really make it good or fun

>>740273223
I disagree which means you are wrong
>>740272931
>but game too easy
Difficulty slider goes up high enough and you can play with death means restart ruleset.
>but i can abuse alchemy
so just don't

>>740272237
What has the best combat then?

>>740272001
It's the best with mods but without the vanilla systems are kinda stupid
The fact the most of the Morrowind community is of the opinion that you should have enchants/potions that make stamina, mana sometimes even HP a non factor proves it.

Every fight being trivial after 12 hours of the game is dumb. Modding it to be harder is the move

>>740273334
you are gay which makes you wrong by default in all arguments. checkmate.

>>740273449
ESO

>>740273467
There's a difficulty slider. The vast majority of games have always started players on "normal" which typically means "very easy."

>>740273108
I guess I see a lack of true choice as a lack of true choice no matter what. If I can only choose option 'A' (Skyrim) or I can choose one of options 'A, B, C or D' (Arcanum) I am still offered pre-made choices, and it doesn't matter which one I choose. I'm still answering a multiple choice quiz, not writing an essay. I am not creating, I am only existing within someone else's framework. Someone else already made the choice for what option 'C' is, I'm only choosing to follow the path laid out for me.
Sorry for the food analogy, but I see it as the difference between preparing a meal yourself, with all the accompanying tweaks and changes you want, as opposed to just picking something off of a menu. Only one of these options is 'cooking', but I have people insisting that because I can choose whether or not I want cheese on my burger, I've basically made it myself.

>>740273334
>Difficulty slider goes up high enough and you can play with death means restart ruleset.
The difficulty slider is complete shit and doesn't even properly adjust difficulty depending on skill choice.
Making up rules in your head works for every game, it isn't unique to Morrowind.

>>740273627
>the difficulty slider is complete shit
It makes the game harder lol. I don't know what else you want.

>>740272931
>he died to warm-up boss multiple times
This is the modern audience

>>740273564
>your dm informs you that you're standing in a room and describes it to you
>NOOOOOOOOO I CAN'T INFINITE CHOOOOOSE
Buddy I don't think you understand roleplaying in video games. I had a quest in Morrowind where I had to shake down a girl for a repayment to the fighter's guild. The actual gameplay solution was horrible, I just bribed her enough so she'd give me the money (less than I used to bribe her) so I could get the next quest... but in my HEAD I interrogated her for a bit and used a scroll of command humanoid to force her to pay up. You don't need the actual dialogue option to exist in the roleplaying game to pretend what your character did. This is also why very basic quests are actually a strength of Morrowind, when more scripted epic/tm gameplay quests you can't really pretend you did any other way than what you saw on the screen.

And I'm not saying this works in every situation, but it works best in Morrowind of the ES games, and of any rpg probably.

>>740273687
It doesn't make mage enemies any easier or harder.
It also doesn't make you weaker nor stronger if you use magic or magic items.
Not that it would be good if it did, it's still a lazy way to change difficulty.

>>740273090
ah boomers and their crts. Do I need nostalgia googles as well

>>740273876
>taking 6x physical damage doesn't make you weaker
people do 1 life runs of Morrowind using specific rulesets and I don't think anyone has ever beaten the game on the hardest difficulty without dying and with big exploits banned. You can make the game hard enough in vanilla.

>>740273870
>I imagined playing a good quest, therefore Morrowind has good quests.
Embarrassing desu

>>740273981
yes, that's what an rpg is. I'm sorry you don't have an internal monologue

>>740272082
This is neat. OpenMW lua is pulling ahead.

>>740273508
Unironically true if you don't use mods in other TES games.

>>740272001
>Best combat in the series
it's not, oblivion is but the bar is so low that it isn't even worth debating
>Best graphics in the series (yes, art direction is graphics)
skyrim had better art direction
>Best questing in the series (overall and all things considered, largely considering the damage FOLLOW ARROW gameplay does to the questing experience)
I will concede that this is true but only because the writing is better. At the end of the day it is still the same gameplay loop as the other elder scrolls games.
>Most memetic
oblivion memes are way more memorable
>Best artstyle
repeated point, skyrim had better art direction
>Most interesting world/unique province
>Best gameplay (finding out where things are is gameplay, and good, actually, for an rpg)
agreed
>Best modability (largely because npcs are not all voiced)
eh, there are technically more mods for skyrim but I will concede that morrowind mods are usually better in terms of scope. like how many new lands mods do you know of skyrim that are actually decent?
>Best rpg systems with alchemy, spellmaking, more stats, enchanting, etc - the later games removed more with every iteration when more should have been added instead
agreed

>>740273943
>taking 6x physical damage
From what, exactly? Melee enemies?
Walk away. Fly away.
Unless the game goes out of its way to remove basic tools like walking and flying while facing bullshit enemies(i.e. the bloodmoon maze) no amount of hypothetical damage will actually reach you.
>muh invented rules
You can do this in every game, it's not unique to Morrowind. Morrowind lacks a proper way to set its difficulty above piss easy.

>>740274057
It's not actually. This is just a cope that Bethesda fans and bad RPGs use. This type of Role-playing is not facilitated by the game at all and you may as well write your own fan fic using a LLM. Real role-playing is actually facilitated with multiple options like in the majority of CRPGs.

I know hecuase I do the same type of "in your head" role-playing for bad games. It's cope and doesn't count. Unironically.

>first real quest of morrowind
>fargoth's ring
>it is so unique compared to rest of the quests
>devs are clearly proud of it, to the point of making a pop up to take the ring and putting fargoth right up to your nose
>finally some immersive hand-crafted RPG design
>talk to elf
>give elf ring
>elf likes you
>quest complete
>wow
>then the game immediately gives you the advanced version of the same quest
>fargoth's hiding place
>what if instead of giving the elf his ring back
>you stalk him from a lighthouse at night
>watch this 3-foot wood elf sneak around like he is smuggling state secrets
>he walks to a random stump in the swamp
>puts his life savings inside
>absolute criminal mastermind
>go downstairs
>open stump
>there it is
>the ring you just gave him
>also his gold
>morrowind morality tutorial
>first quest: help pathetic little elf
>second quest: mug pathetic little elf
>local nord drunk basically says "that little freak has money, go watch him"
>journal updates like this is a normal thing adventurers do
>the entire emotional arc of Seyda Neen is bullying one man with a bowl cut
>fargoth is the only NPC with a daily routine and its only purpose is letting you rob him
>devs invented radiant AI for one guy and used it to ruin his week
>peak immersive sim
>10/10

>>740273930
We are talking about morrowind here, aren't we?

>>740273090
>crt shader
Do zoomers really believe that CRT look like that? lol

>>740272196
fallout new vegas

>>740272190
Only the character creation was better in slopfall. The rest was mostly shit desu

>>740274242
>Real role-playing is actually facilitated with multiple options like in the majority of CRPGs.
Those are mostly party based and quite linear. I like those too but, no, real role playing is done in your head via your own narration and you determine that besides the influence from rpg systems (dictating the strength and capabilities of the character you're playing), graphical and textual world, objects of interaction (I roleplay as wizard so i want to enchant and alchemize. I want these systems to exist to support my roleplay), identification with in-game persona (appearance, characteristics, customizability of player character), and other factors

>>740274459
>realism fags can't appreciate stylized graphics

>>740274390
I wanted to warn Fargoth about the thug guard and when I found you couldn't proceed that way I taunted the guy until he attacked me and killed him. Very good first quest

>>740274546
everyone says but, but I only like fantasy rpgs

>>740274796
>taunting
Jesus what a joke
>click taunt
>fails
>click taunt
>fails
>repeat 20 times
>success
>repeat another 20 times
>npc gets mad
>click taunt 20 more times
>npc attacks
>kill him
>no bounty
>speechcraft is 5
>doesn't matter
>just mash the insult button until murder becomes legal
>10/10 diplomacy
Unironically there is not a single system in Morrowind that is designed well

>>740275331
the speech system is definitely really bad. if it were really good the game would have an entire new dimension

>>740274839
so you haven't played it? That game is almost everything you like about Morrowind but better. They're pretty similar and it's weird you would draw the line at "it's not high fantasy"

>>740275512
no never played it
>it's weird
just can't get into post apocalyptic stuff it's really not my genre. Traditional fantasy is something I really really like

>>740273508
I hate that this is true

>>740275998
>>740273508
It is just generic MMO combat, what are you guys smoking. Even morrowind beats it

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>>740272001
>>Best combat in the series
Stopped reading there.

>>740276751
stop, morrowind does not need to be the best at everything, this feels too forced

>>740277394
Not saying it is best, but beats generic MMO combat

Oblivion>skyrim>morrowind

>>740273508
>>740274105
>>740275998
>spam buttons 1-4 until the damage sponge dies
its worse than Daggerfall and Arena

>>740277898
woah that's 3 more buttons than I normally spam