Holyyyy shit when are western CRPG devs gonnabstop using this old ass system and admit defeat to japanese devs and start implementing turn based combat in all their CRPG games?A snooze system where the correct way of “playing” it is to not actually do anything and just automate your party to do all the fighting for you or you will have to live in the pause screen effectively playing a much worse turn based experience
>>740584013Rtwp > TB
>>740584013>I suck at games>I need somehow to hold my handYes, we get it already. Stop crying, retard.
>>740584180Sure buddy, thats why its only used in these wholesome chungus kickstarter crpgs
>>740584013Both PoE and Pathfinder have turn-based modes for a reason. RtwP sucks and even the devs see it.
>>740584289If its fun, why is the correct way of playing it is to automate your companions to auto play themselves ? At that point why not just implement an already automated ai companions.Fucking trash system and thank god larian knew this is a dog shit system and made bg3 a turn based game
>>740584361True but in pathfinder it was added later on and the game is clearly not designed for it so if you play turn based in it some stats become completely useless and broken
>>740584304Mainly because normies can't into Rtwp.I like TB and Rtwp but prefer Rtwp.
>>740584013It always makes me laugh when /v/ shares the same braindead casual ape opinion as the normalfag masses.
>>740584478Or maybe cuz its not fun and is a vestigial system from the past when devs were dumb and didn’t know that u can just use turn based combat in rpgs
>>740584013Real-time with pause actually requires player skill. Instead of trying to get gud, you just whine and complain. Typical behavior of the ADHD generation.
>>740584013Shit up the new vtm crpg is awesome
>>740584639Sure, enjoy your glorified auto attack simulation
>>740584645What makes Rtwp not fun? The reason I prefer Rtwp over TB is because it is faster paced, more tactical and when fighting large groups of enemies you don't have to wait 10+ mins for them all to take their turns. Rtwp combat flows a lot better than TB combat, TB combat is also much easier than Rtwp.
i don't care for this western vs japanese weeb incel shit, it just is objectively true that tb is superior. why objectively? because crpg studios like owlcat have pivoted and included tb-mode in their games, and will probably drop rtwp in future releases altogether
>>740584893How is it more tactical when it’s automated and you have to take less decisions and there is no action economy so you could basically spam actions like a brain dead retard and still win. Unlike turn based where every decision you make means u cant make many other ones, do I move this turn or heal? Do I attack or buff? Etc.RTwP only works when fighting 1 large boss because then it plays like a normal TB system but when fighting 10+ mobs its just become chaotic mess of action spamming your way to victory or automating your party to play itself
>>740584013>gonnabstopFuck off phoneposter
>>740584013You sound immature
>>740585313you sound like an immature faggot that wants to be seen as a mature faggot
>japan invented turn basedwell, this is a fresh kind of retardation at least
>>740585149>it’s automated and you have to take less decisions and there is no action economy so you could basically spam actionsIt isn't automated, you have to pause and perform actions. Actions have cool downs, it is turn based but in real time.
RTwP would work better if characters had abilities that require fine timing to work like dashes, short-timed CC or powers that require good positioning and coordinationThey should unironically take lessons from League of Legends
I have never played an rtwp that's actually well balanced and I don't think the system allows for it.You either setup a party automation that wins everything for you or spend an hour pausing after every action to dictate the next.
>>740585582it's the painful truth chud
>>740584013>he fell for the RTwHRT meme
>>740585958the classic case of hamburgers creating stuff due to them having a lot of free time but creatively bankrupt then the actual creative people get a hold of it and develop it to new reach hamburgers could never imagine
>>740584013how about real time direct control huh?how about giving the player a way to directly participate instead of only giving commands?would that be too much of a challenge for you turn-slop retards?WASD movement with mouse aiming instead of this mouse based moba bullshit w shitty rts micro as a side.I fucking HATE you turn slop consoomering faggots so fucking much holy shit, be it a mmo or single player, all your games play like SHITrtwp or turn based, both are the same trash
>>740585149>there is no action economy You have limited uses of abilities and spells with different cast times and conditions and things like interruption to account for>Unlike turn based where every decision you make means u cant make many other ones...How do you think real time works? How do you think real life works?
>>740584013
>>740584013I like RTwP a lot.I like being able to switch between Turn Based and RTwP the most.
>>740584645So, it's old and normies can't do it? why the redundancy?
>>740584013i think this gayme is pretty fun
>>740586342>old = goodgo play Space Invader and E.T
>>740585149TB niggers could never convince me that that their genre is more tactical, unless we're talking about games like X-COM and the like. Usually in the average TB games (Dragon Quest, early FF, SMT, Persona, Etrian Odyssey, etc.), you have multiple party members and you can specialize one into being a healer/buffer/debuffer so that the rest won't have to waste their turn on healing and can focus on DPSing instead. You only need to press one button from the menu to Heal every turn and that's it, because your battle screen is a static 4-nigger-in-a-row vs 4-enemy-in-a-row. You don't need to account for anything else. Meanwhile, in most RtWP games, to heal or buff or debuff, you need to consider:>casting speed>range>line of sight>AoE effect, which could accidentally heal enemies>positioning, are you in the range of enemy who could attack and interrupt your casting?You faggots get filtered by RTwP and still wanna larp as strategy/tactical game aficionados. Please fuck off.
>>740584013>admit defeat to japanese devsBut Japanese devs also did RTwP and it was based.
>>740585958western devs at the time were retarded and thought turn based? that's like chess and table top, we moved past those days, we are in a new era where you can actually move during your opponent actions! meanwhile chad Japanese devs stuck to it and built beloved franchises that are the current bases for modern turn based games
>>740586556that's the 2nd/3rd generation Japanese devs like Kojima that are obsessed with the west due to inferiority complex
>>740586556>mmo gameplayyeah no, not really
RTWP and TB both put characters in turn order by their action speed. In TB, the characters simple do their actions and movement when its their turn. In RTWP is the same, but the actions overlap as the actions have their start up and conclusion times. RTWP is much better for reacting to movement. RTWP is also better for automation.Although OP is talking about 4 niggas in a row system, which ignores the environment and have all the fights take place in a pocket. Which nobody finds enjoyable, hence everyone is praising E33 for adding quicktime events.
holy god /v/ knows nothing about CRPGs
>>740585958>While Western developers invented the genreWhy. Why are weebs always so fucking stupid?
>>740586556>it was basedMight as well play a fucking idle battler at that point.
>>740586556Did you not see when BG3 and E33 won GOTY? Turn-based is the most popular RPG combat style and western devs are unironically doing more to keep it relevant than japanese ones.
>>740586932RTWP tends to have absolutely garbage encounter design, especially if the game has a mixed RTWP/TB system. There's usually a few good encounters (featuring a wizard) but a billion trash fights. I don't usually care much for Larian but BG3 actually had pretty good encounters since they actually designed the game around it. Meanwhile Owlcat RTWP games in TB are absolutely miserable due to having so many trash encounters. Best RTWP/TB mixed system so far has been Pillars of Eternity surprisingly, they did a decent job at patching it in.
>>740585958is it bait or retardation
>>740584013>phoneposter>calling anything assLMAO
>>740584462>in pathfinder it was added laterMate, in pillars 1 it was added 11 years after the release
>>740584407Try to be subtler when falseflagging, filthy jarpig Tendie tranny
>>740587228it's not who created the genre, it's who adopted it. the western devs throw it in the garbage thinking the future is in action and not waiting turns. while the Japanese adopted it and made final fantasy, chrono trigger, dragon quest... etc.
>>740585958This doesn't even say japan invented tb games. Genuine brainrot
>>740587360>redditspace>Its not who created the genre>>740585582>>japan invented turn based>well, this is a fresh kind of retardation at least>>740585958>>it's the painful truth chud
>>740584013Only low iqs dislike RTWPturn based>you can attack with a few party members consecutively and the enemy can't do anything about itrtwp>real time so you can't cheese enemies like mentioned above, constantly have to manage positioning and place AOE spells correctly, need to think about all party members and enemies at once instead of just about what one party member can dortwp is simply too difficult for turn based peasant brain, this is why bg3 is so popular, masses love easy slop
>>740584013Too much happening at the same time and the normalfag brain overloads. It's also not a very tutorialized combat system, rtwp is the product of a bygone era where game designers assumed players had 3 digit IQ and the willingness to figure out the game for themselves.
>>740586521
>game plays itself >im so high iq
>>740587954you mean turn based? yeah it plays itself meanwhile in rtwp you have to take care of positioning and what enemies are doing all the time and reacting to it instead of looking at what just one dude is doing
>>740588048>meanwhile in rtwp you have to take care of positioning and what enemies are doing all the timeYou have to do this as well in TB eg. DoS2
>>740584013Turn based is only good if some strategy is involved otherwise it's just kind of tedious and unnecessary
>>740588048>enter fight in rtwp>don't press any buttons >win fight >enter fight in tb>don't press any buttons >nothing happens wtf i have to actually play the game? ugh rtwp is so much better...
modern kids are used to playing mobile games, and 99% of them are turn based and these games play themselves (just like BG3, you just sit and watch).RTS and RTWP genres died because its just too hard for kids these days.try selling SC2 to a modern kid, he will screech and shit himself because the game requires actual motherfucking attention, turn based games require zero attention.>click end turn in BG3>alt tab or do something on the phone for 5 minutes>oh its my turn again>cast smite/eldritch shit or some other nonsense nuke shit>click end turn>alt tab againturn based BG3 is perfect for low IQ low attention span modern kids.BG3 is not for me, i need something actually happening in my video games, i dont have the time to just sit and watch.I got TV for that.
>>740587705rtwp is just pixel hunting to get the best possible targetting for your spells and constant micro pauses until the fight is already wonbut you will never ever admit itthe only way rtwp is fun is if you CANT pause just to assess the situation, all pausing is tied to targetting your manually pressed abilitiesit will also require an extensive list of behaviours/actions to set up your party
>>740584013That's why Rogue Trader is still the king of CRPGs.
>>740587360>while the Japanese adopted it and made final fantasy, chrono trigger, dragon questSo, a bunch of movieslop games?
>whole thread is just western retards coping about how jrpgs are so much more famous than crpgs
>retarded discussion about jrpgBased on DnD dungeon crawlers, where the whole party would occupy the same POV. The DnD dna is still strongly in there, like how you kill mindflayers in Demon Souls.The souls-like genre itself is just dungeon crawler with camera pulled back. Its interesting to watch how DnD becomes King's Field becomes Elden Ring. DnD to KF allowed free-camera and more then 4 directions of movement. Then KF to Elden Ring evolves the back-stepping meta to side-stepping and circling, to dedicated dodge button, and the better dodging allowed more hectic battles, which led to the camera being pulled back for more awareness of your surroundings.Now you have kids picking up the blades of Drizzt that come with description text explaining his exploits, and they call it some zanzibart shit.
>>740588716JRPGs haven't been "famous" for two decades
>>740587162mixing systems brings out the worst of both worlds and should be avoided, BG3 has amazing hancrafted combat setpieces and deserves the praise, but it also exposes the weakness of TB, it shines in epic boss battles like Raphael's, but it's just not scalable in any sense, if you have multiple combat encounters in a row it quickly becomes tedious and if you have too many characters in any single encounter, it straight up becomes unplayable, as anyone who has experienced the Last Light inn fall to darkness sequence can attest to it, you just have to reload at that point, even fleeing combat can take forever.I played BG2 recently and there is a sequence with a war beterrn elves and dark elves with dozens of characters duking it out as you go through them to escape the underdark, this sequence would be impossible in BG3.
>why doesn't every genre stop using this system and become this genre i prefer over the others?because you should kill yourself OPi dont even like CRPG
>>740588978>i dont even like CRPGMaybe you shouldn't enlighten us with your dogshit low effort take
>>740588890lol the only crpg that's more popular than jrpgs is BG3
>>740589331Obviously, JRPGs are literally for braindead retards, which are the majority of console players. And that's not my opinion, they were intentionally designed to be simple games for mass appeal.
>>740588214RTWP should never ever be uttered in the same phrase as RTSRTWP is the bastardization and casualization of the RTS genre, it's the kid version, the version for idiots, it pretends to be "real time" but then it takes away all the difficulty of RTS games and replaces it with guard railsyou have the infinite time to consider your actions from a turn based game, but you also have the infinite ability to modify your actions of an RTS meaning you never have to commit to anything and there's virtually no skill involved in what you doTurn based games actively require more attention than RTWP because at minimum you have to actually anticipate enemy actions before committing to your own, you have to live with your choices even the mistakesRTWP takes away this aspect completely, the minute something goes wrong you can instantly click "pause game" undo everything while paused and it'll be as if nothing bad ever happened there's no genre more casual than RTWP
>>740584013but japanese turn based systems are dogshit and lacking in tactical depth...
>>740584013japs literally don't make crpgs, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>740584013>when idk i haven't seen one that is rtwp-only in like 30 years so i think they already have
>>740589798you can't design good encounters for both systems at the same time
>>740589798crpg is just a technical term
turn based is the best because it's like pen and paper with proper turns and actionsrtwp is just a hack n slash with extra steps which is retarded especially since dice rolls can immediately fuck your party and end your game in the span of a few seconds
>>740588910>BG3 has amazing hancrafted combat setpieces
>>740590713Every single encounter in BG3 is unique and memorable, I remember all of them, from the very first mind devorers you fight after the tutorial you have multiple ways to approach and use the terrain in different ways according to your character abilities, it's one of the most impressive games ever made in that regard.
>>740588910BG3 in this aspect does represent tabletop gaming better than BG1-2 did Usually in tabletop gaming encounters tend to be limited in numbers, because it involves a lot of rolling and no matter how good a GM you are there's always jankAnd so usually decent GM's will recognize this problem and try to make what limited encounters a campaign will have more memorableOutside of lv 1-2 you're never going to be fighting wolves in the woods, it's just not fun to have to set up all that for an encounter you know the party will just easily win
>>740591027inb4 some retard calls it handcraftslop
>>740590713It does though, each encounter is desgend rather than trash mob encounters. As much as I like Rtwp a lot of encounters are just trash mobs and not specifically designed encounters.
>>740590601I will say one big critique of turn based is that almost every single dev chooses to make the player stronger by cheating the action point economy or messing with turn order. Such effects are a lot less powerful in rtwp with no defined turns.
>>740591852I wouldn't quite call it cheating, if the actions of the player are individually stronger than those of NPC's then it makes sense the NPC's have more actions than the player over the course of a turnit also adds in a tactical element of target prioritization, removing an enemy removes all action points attached to said enemy and with turn based tactical combat the expectation is that a player being removed is significantly rarer than an NPC so usually throughout the battle you will gain the action point advantage, how fast and effective you gain it depending on your skillRTWP tends to also cheat but usually in a different way, it tends to have a lot of pure stat inflation ( see the pathfinder games) because adding extra enemies or giving enemies extra actions no longer works like you said
>>740587017ultima 3 is the dragon quest formulaI thought that was where it came from
>>740591027literally handcraftslop, randomly generated encounters will always be superior
>>740585313You sound immaterial (AI)
>RTwSL(slow motion)>allTower of Time/Aarklash Legacy chads rise up
>>740585958How did we go from>wikipedia isn't a source you retardto>here's an image of google AI/grok saying something so it must be true!
>>740584013cRPGs are played for the story, not the riveting gameplay. Just play on story mode if you don't like RTwP.
>>740584013>Holyyyy shit>gonna stop>old ass >A snooze system
>>740587705RTWP means you can't cheese? What the fuck are you talking about? Cheesing the AI is part and parcel for RTWP CRPGs, there's no getting around that and there's not a single one you can't do some cheesy bullshit in. What the hell do you do in Baldur's Gate, just play on easy mode and attack move your guys around throughout the whole game because it's "honorable"? I like RTWP but it's not cheese-free so don't be a retard about it. Breaking the basic gameplay in those games is what makes them fun.
>>740587807Yeah fucking right. RTWP was created to appeal to actionfags. All the older DnD RPGs were turn based and seen as old and obsolete.Baldur's Gate was the Dragon Age 2 "button awesome" game of its time.
>>740594521if anything you can cheese much harder in RTWP than any other similar game because you get risk-free kiting of enemiesin turn based kiting is impossible because you can't continuously outspeed enemies by simply clicking away from themand in RTS kiting is a genuine high level skill that anyone other than professionals is likely to fuck upbut RTWP just allows you to pause the game so you can instantly correct your misclicks and can as a result be done without the heavy APM requirements of ranged tactics in RTS games
>those fucking zoomers can't pay attention to anything for more than a second unless there's contant pew paw pow happening, that's why they think turn-based is boring!>UGGH only those fucking zoomers like turn-based, their small minds can't handle MY combat system of constant pew paw powcan you faggots get consistent with this shit?
>Holyyyy shit>gonna stop>old ass>A snooze system
I love rtwp, I also enjoy turn based but every time the topic gets brought up it always you always have a gaggle of people espousing the flaws of rtwp "oh it's good for trash fights but not for bosses" or "I have more control with turn based then rtwp!" and it makes me seethe because how wrong they are. These apes are the reason I can't have my rtwp. I recently replayed dragon age origins and tyranny which both have good implantations of rtwp and every day I wish more crpgs have rtwp, imagine another triple A crpg with rtwp? Just bring me back to the release of dao, I haven't played any other dragon age game solely because I heard they moved further away from rtwp with every additional installment. Currently the best implantation of rtwp in my opinion is still bg1/2 and not to say other games in the genre haven't done individual aspects of their systems better but on the whole I enjoy the feel of bg1/2 better and this wouldn't be the case if more games tried more rtwp systems and improved on previous rtwp implantations. Don't be a bigot against rtwp please.Dragon age origins had a good feel for kiting but not being so mobile that it was too easy to micro it while tyranny had the engagement system but both games had flaws of small movements that made microing inconsistent (getting stuck in animations, characters getting stuck on each other, spaces that look big enough to move pass but aren't). RTWP GOOD, MORE RTWP GOOD
>>740587705>rtwp>You can't cheese enemiesStopped reading there. Kiting is the easiest and also most powerful cheese you can do in rtwp.
>have to pause to refresh whatever abilities your party is using>in effect just like playing turn-based but you're doing less per turnI genuinely don't see the point. If you're going to do real time then don't put a pause in, this is just a worse framework to force the player to take their turn in.
>>740584013Shht the fuck up youretarded zoomer faggot, low reaction time is associated with low iq btw. Also PoE has turned based mode so what the fuck are you even on about?
>>740588214>BG3 is not for me, i need something actually happening in my video games, i dont have the time to just sit and watch.You harp on modern kids then admit to being of the same ADD blood. Nice self own.
>muh action economy (let's ignore it gets broken and fucked with in every imaginable way in every turn based game anyway because they don't know how to make the gameplay interesting lmao)>muh REAL rts games>nooo it's hecking CHEESE>uhm actually turn based is more faithful to the original game's vision, and not just bowing down runs to the original 0-bit hardware's (pen and paper) technical limitations that can't run real time gamesEvery argument against RTWP is just dogmatic ledditor pseud drivel. Fags really think watching Critical Roll and playing BG3, the most overrated Current Year garbage, makes them le epic mastermind chessmasters and not normalfags who are just eating up prettied up curated puzzle game slop.
>>740595687you've not made a single argument in favor of RTWP by the wayyou've just repeated arguments against it in a sarcastic tone
>>740595070I think a big reason why that always happens is that people who like RTWP have developed a reputation for being very adamant, often grognard-esque about how it's the best system ever created without any flaws, and so people who prefer turn-based assume that the RTWP lovers will be obnoxious no matter what, and both sides end up seeming hostile to one anotherThat reputation may or may not be accurate, there are most likely plenty of people who aren't total cunts and are capable of admitting the flaws and having a nice conversation about it. I've had the pleasure of talking with such people, and there are also total cunts who prefer turn-based games.Personally I just want both sides to kiss and agree to not wish death upon one another, both can coexist.
>>740595687Why have it be a DnD based RPG at all? We have the technology to create real action games where player skill decides the outcome.
>>740595780I think part of it is also that RTwP fans got fairly upset at the popularity of Larian games, there was genuine vitriol against both the success of DOS2 and BG3 especially in light of the RTwP cRPG renaissance games not having anywhere near the same level of success
>>740595070RTWP need their BG3, unfortunately owlcrap is not it and it's holding back the style with their shit implementation
>>740595913>We have the technology to create real action games where player skill decides the outcome.Because we want to play a RPG where you take the role of a character whose performance is not based on your own skills, that's the whole point of the genre.
>>740596120Exactly, so what's wrong with turn based again?
>>740584013It's always been trash. It's not the ebin high IQ shit for oldfags that retards will pretend it is because older games used turn based, and RTWP is a shitty fad from around the early 2000s era to copy Blizzard games, which have always been shit. It combines the worst aspects of real time and turn based, and offers no advantages except maybe automating trash mobs. And if the game is filled with trash mobs, it's inherently shit.
>>740596026>buffinder path of the buffs
What to play while waiting for Divinity 3
>>740595687I like RTWP, but you are a faggot, BG3 is simply a great game, no amount of screeching will change that.
>>740584013I don't need the game to tell me when to pause
>>740584013Since Rtwp comes with pause, just pause it and make it a turn based game?
>>740596594>just pause it and make it a turn based game?Thats literally what happens. Either you're strong enough to autoattack and kill everything like a MMO, or you're pausing every half a second to micro your niglets
>>740596026vgh... the tactical depth of RTWP...
>>740595780>have developed a reputation for being very adamant, often grognard-esque about how it's the best system ever created without any flaws,I have never seen this before and it is contrary to every thread like this one on this board.
>>740584645>it's a vestigial system from the past>it's only wholesome chungus kickstarterWhich is it, smoothbrain?
>>740596728that has nothing to do with the combat system, but the implementation
>>740596636and it also leads to an unfair advantage for the player because only he can strategically pause the game while the NPC's have simplified AI to make them work in real time mode
>>740596890Are you implyging any turn based game has great human level AI?
>>740595780>people who like RTWP have developed a reputation for being very adamant, often grognard-esque about how it's the best system ever created without any flawsI am totally guilty of this, I just can't help but defend the system in a bit of a performative way after hearing the same arguments against rtwp for so many years. But maybe in the future my childrens children can benefit from a world with rtwp AND turn based instead of just having action games with rpg elements...>>740595976I played DOS2 with friends and had a great time but it is true that in the back of my head I was thinking "Man, I wish rtwp had as many accolades as these recent larian games" but only a sprinkle of salt.>>740596026That it does, maybe someone needs to make another mv with marilyn manson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PQXplXYxccThough I will say I don't mind the buffing in both pathfinder games but man, movement feels so bad. Also trying to keep track of whether or not you've used a shift action or whatever was such a hassle.
>>740596785I mean, this is some absolute basic level stuff honestly, you're just casting a lightning bolt from stealth to oneshot two enemiesthere's nothing about this that couldn't have been done in turned based systems either like, really what about this is inherent to RTwP?
>>740596962>Man, I wish rtwp had as many accolades as these recent larian gamesthat's not bad, I'm more talking about the people demanding Larian make a RTwP game instead of Turn Based, when it's blatantly obvious Larian doesn't want to do that, they're good at the games they create and are comfortable creating them
>>740596260It's boring and a slog. Really, no one looks at TTRPGs and says "woaw I love how long it takes to cycle the table"
>>740596962>But maybe in the future my childrens children can benefit from a world with rtwp AND turn basedI hope so too mate
>>740588716No shit, even Japanese dev admitted that when they created DQ, they copied Wizardry and dumbed it down for mass appeal.
>>740597269I really hope though we get dedicated rtwp and dedicated turn based rather than games that try to be both at the same time (this never works out)
>>740597041That was more meant to show how BG2 is better than pathfinder games because it allows for some emergent gameplay, it isn't inherent to RTWP I guess, it depends more on the way the gameplay systems are designed and physics and such.A badly designed BG3 wouldn't allow you to even interact with the world outside of turn based combat (SOLASTA comes to mind), shoot doors, shove enemies and such, it wouldn't really be fair to judge the entire TB system based on a specific poor implementation, would it?
>>740596956NTA but at least in turn based games the enemies play on the same rules as players, selecting their moves before the turn plays out. In rtwp they don't adapt their commands due to the pause, they just have a fixed retarded AI.
>>740596485Larian's games are complete shit>one of three player characters uses his WoW paladin Vengeant Strike(tm) dps ability once on an enemy skeleton, dealing about 1/3 of it's total health in damage>10 of 25 enemy skeletons take their turns>second player character uses Fire Bolt(tm) on a convenient exploding barrels hitting 3 of the 25 enemy skeletons for half their hp in damage>10 more enemy skeletons take their turns>dood the Action Economy(tm)(c) bro, shit is so gas fr frAnd it's not just Larian, it's turn based slop in general that's always a huge slog. Like if you don't abuse the fuck out of blowing up the whole screen with bombs and mines in Underrail the entire game is pure fucking unplayable trash.
>>740597863>it's turn based slop in general that's always a huge slogTurn based with map positioning slop*Turn based games with no maps during battle, abstracting the movement to lanes or rows are way faster and don't suck.
>>740597863>that's always a huge slogBecause it's so blood-pumping to press the button you bound to Bubble's Buffs to automate a minute's worth of buff casting before every fight.
>>740584289Pretending rpgs are challenging has to be the most cringe shit ever
>>740598190>i do this so you do thisNyope.
I'll never understand why people have their knickers in a twist over rtwp so hard, the world is full of turn-based games just play those if rtwp is too hard.
>>740597668I guess what it comes down to is just much of a fuck the devs giveLarian gives a lot more fucks than average and makes a good game as a resultSo hopefully you get a dev who gives as much fucks about RTwP
>>740598429>implication that rtwp is better/harderlol
>>740598587Larian games have abysmal balance and writing, babys first physics engine and are pretty ugly and stylistically blandWhat part of them are good?
>>740598682>It isn't hard, I just enjoy it when combat takes 10 times longerTurn troon cope. Just admit that you are handicapped or lack the ability to think in real time.
>>740599280What is the physics engine of Owlfag games like?
>>740597707Why would they adapt to the pause? The computer is thinking 50000x faster than you, it can adapt every frameThe reason for the pause is for humans to strategize and more importantly issue the commands, without the pause youre looking at RTS tier apm checks of trying to micro 6+ units at once which is miserable and why that genre is dead
>>740599795Owlcat games don't even have verticality
>>740584013The bigger issue with modern CRPGs is how so many turn based ones lack a game speed setting. It leads to retardedly slow and boring gameplay.
>>740600237>Why would they adapt to the pause? The computer is thinking 50000x faster than you, it can adapt every frameWhat I mean is that they don't instantly change their chosen action if you're casting a spell but suddenly pause, cancel the cast, do a 180 degree turn and start kiting them with a bow.The player has the degree of freedom to change their commands instantly, meanwhile most rtwp games don't process the enemy AI every frame or every unpause, there's a slight delay before they decide on a new action by design.
>>740600516>What I mean is that they don't instantly change their chosen action if you're casting a spell but suddenly pause, cancel the cast, do a 180 degree turn and start kiting them with a bow.That's more a problem with the AI being simplistic in general, but it's not like in TB games the AI really reads the situation at any deep level either.
I'm actually surprised BG3 was so popular because HOLY FUCK it's slowThe slowass Larian animations that are neat but get old the third time you see themAnd Lariankek still can't manage to add a skip or fast forward option
>>740600671In TB games at least the actions are decided before the turn plays out, either in the "everyone selects an action then every turns plays out" and in the "before each actor turn they select their move" games. That means both the player and the AI are operating with the same level of knowledge.In rtwp when you pause and choose a new action, the enemy AI waits some ticks before deciding a new action, it doesn't have the entire knowledge of the situation until their AI tick comes up, meanwhile the player can adapt instantly to the npc decisions.
>>740599681>"Heh... Turn based tards couldn't handle the fast paced thinking required to play RTWP">*pauses every time they have to react to their automated party*Always with this disingenuous argument.
>>740598242this. and it tells you something about the fans that they think that's the objection
>>740600516Because thats not a thing retard, there is still an action delay on characters when you swap commands. >there's a slight delay before they decide on a new action by design.Yes this is on literally every real time AI, because letting a computer react instantly to players when humans dont react that fast makes the AI unfair You understand humans have a reaction time right? Even just time to hit the space bar
>>740600963AI playing retarded about obvious traps/explosive barrels/bottomless pits is the cornerstone of larian gamesLikewise in most games AI is given a very narrow field of vision while players can see far beyondAI equal to players beats humans consistently and upsets players, all games gimp them
>STOP MAKING THIS>YOU SHOULD ONLY BE LIKE ME>YOU SHOULD ONLY MAKE GAMES THIS WAYOP is a gayass control freak lunatic.
>rtwp bad because... the AI doesn't adapt to everything the player doesHas this guy ever played a video game before?
>>740584013RTwP is better and JRPGs are faggy garbage.
>>740584180
>>740586521>>casting speed>>range>>line of sight>>AoE effect, which could accidentally heal enemies>>positioning, are you in the range of enemy who could attack and interrupt your casting?None of that is specific to RTWap, and RTWP makes all that stuff worse because you have to wrangle terrible AI pathing.
here's a nice post on why turn based is the best system for RPGshttps://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=21
>>740606261>trannycodex
RTWP is a great mode that is entirely unsuited for small party CRPGs
>>740606261From the article:>If pausing is arbitrary, then any sense of measured progression is lost. It's difficult to anticipate and gauge the actions of other characters, and due to the simultaneous actions, the player can just outright miss many of the things going on during combat.this is such a nonargument holy shit
>>740606521Why
>>740606720hollow incremental progress towards binary states (like spellcast finished) creates pointless micromanagement of timers without adding any actual depth
>>740587705Genuinely what in the fuck are you talking about>real time so you can't cheese enemies like mentioned aboveRWTP is deeply rooted in cheese. Kiting, abusing LOS, funneling enemies to choke points, et cetera. RTWP AI abuse is the most powerful form of stategy in RTwP >constantly have to manage positioning and place AOE spells correctly>need to think about all party members and enemies at once instead of just aboutI hope you're fucking joking.>Bad positioning doesn't matter at all because you can actively reposition on the fly>Easily able to orient your party to keep enemies in persistent AOE and your group on the end of it>Actively encouraged to default to basic strategies as the format actively discourages moment to moment micro.>rtwp is simply too difficult for turn based peasant brain, this is why bg3 is so popular, masses love easy slopI will never understand how people can say this with a straight face when the BG trilogy is well known for being piss easy, hence why the difficult mods are practically essential in the modern age.Don't mind me. I think I'll go reinstall WotR and clear another map on Unfair solo without getting touched once by playing some more ring-around-the-rosie with spike stones, sirocco, and movement buffs.
>>740607139ai abuse is the most powerful strategy in any game that supports it. that's what makes it abuse.
>>740606720>>740607114what if you had a game where your character is the leader of a small company of soldier and interacts with the world like a RPG, but battles are larger scale
>>740607139and TB is entirely based on abusing the best build, combination of itens, breaking the action economy
>>740607427Based mythfag
>>740607114>pointless micromanagement of timersAs opposed to the very meaningful timers involved in waiting your turn.
>>740607684i'm sorry i didn't realize i was addressing a literal retard
>>740607805Look, we get it, your pain points come from having to do too much at once. So you prefer to play games where you're only having to do things 1/4 of the game time.
>>740607514>abusing the best build, combination of itens, breaking the action economyOh so interacting with the rpg systems instead of exploiting the gamey aspect of the rpg? Thats the best argument in favour of turn based games
>>740607514>TB is based around actively engaging with the game mechanics instead of rendering the AI helpless by taking advantage of its limitations, forcing the devs to crank statistics up to the sky and send armies against the player in attempt to mask and pretend that game isn't held together with rubber bands and paper mache.
>>740584768Horseshit. All it does is create shitty filler encounters, you chinlet.
>>740584013>Six Niggas in a T
>>740584180FPBP.
RTWP is obviously superior because it stops fights from being 30min slog fests. You all know that this happens in every turn based game, which is why turn based fights are always so easy. They will never design a fight to need 10 retries because it would be torture in turn based mode. You might as well ask for turn based Elden Ring because it's sooo more strategic ey? Guess what, it's not really that much more strategic than RTWP fights, they are both quite low strategy. I've played through all of BG3 and I never felt like I had to do something clever to win a fight. Meanwhile I remember playing BG2 and having tons of dicey situations where I had to prebuff, drink potions and try all kinds of different ways to win a fight. Turn based cannot be strategic because they will never force you to redo a 30min fight. Period. Imagine very game genre as turn based instead: it's nonsense. It's cope. Is Warcraft 3 somehow better or more strategic if it was made into a turn based game? No, that's cope. There is plenty of great strategy that is enhanced by realtime combat. You remove an entire giant factor of realism by making things turn based: chases, running away from a fight.
>>740608359Both BG2 and BG3 are complete jokes compared to something like Underrail or KotC2.
>>740598242>>740584289>retards don't existThis is turn troon cope.People with an IQ below 85 have (severe) difficulty learning to drive a car, and for those with an IQ under 70, it is nigh impossible. It is honestly no surprise that low IQ morons have issues with real time games.
Wake me up when a real nigga makes a .Hack//IMOQ-like western RPGAdd in the ability to switch between party members like in the FF7 remakes and I'll buy 100 copies.
>>740609049Gamers with an IQ above 100 tend to prefer real-time with pause. Gamers and an IQ below 100 tend to prefer turn-based.It is that shrimple.
>>740584013>turn based I sleep.>turn based with a gridkino alert!!! I would play every JRPG ever if they had grids to position your guys
>>740609359Pretty much. If you look at the "thesis on TB vs RTwP" here >>740606707It amounts to complaining that it's too difficult or distracting. Like nigga my grandma has a hard time abstracting the controller to what's happening on screen, that doesn't mean the FPS genre is bad.
>>740584013rtwp is antithetical to the abstraction that RPGs are meant to simulate
dos2 is objectively way more fun to play than kingmaker/wotr
>>740584013they're both shit and cringe for RPGsthey're supposed to be games where you ROLEPLAY as your character and do actions on their behalf. Or the inverse, you get what I meanMicromanaging an entire party, be it with turns or faux real time, is just completely fucking antithetical to the genreCRPGs are fundamentally flawed. Only real time action is tolerable in RPGs
>>740586186amen brother>>740610109
>>740609568That article does not say it is too difficult or distracting, just that the pacing is worse due to the overlapping turns
>>740586521>CRT filter on a PSP gameyou people are beyond retarded
>>740586186>>740610109>>740610184Witcherzoomer leave the thread, we're talking about RPGs in here.
>>740609731Wrong.Sitting around a table and waiting your turn isn't a "feature" of tabletop, it's a necessary evil to abstract real combat.
>>740610109This is retarded. If you follow that logic to its conclusion, your party should just make a "tactical knowledge check" and win every fight instead of you having to do anything.
>>740610321>>740610423In real RPGs (tabletop) you control YOUR character. It's a multiplayer social thingThe only way to translate it to a videogame is as a turn based MULTIPLAYER experienceIf you get stuck making singleplayer RPGs, then there's no good reason to have the player control THE WHOLE PARTY. Like some kind of friendless loserThey should control one character: THEIR character, and that's thatPure strategy games are another thing
>>740584013What UI mod is that?
>>740584180fpbp let the zoomies seethe.
>>740610109>>740610184the whole point of rpgs is your party's skills being represented by their stats and not the player's mechanical skill.
I enjoy both. New Dungeon Siege, Freedom Force, Etrian Odyssey, and Crystal Project when?
>>740584768>requires player skillSo they're not RPGs.
RPGcodex tards are scared of RTWP because it actually requires fine motor skills and spatial IQ, it's the dark souls of crpg gameplay if you will while any retardos can play turn based and smash next with a minmaxed character
Good thread for some of the dumbest takes on video games I've seen recently
>>740610827You're saying they're afraid of games they've already played?
>>740610592no, the whole point of RPGs is playing out a specific ROLE and FANTASY. Chosen by YOU for YOUR characterHaving to micromanage an entire party of literallywhos like a poor man's RTS game doesn't achieve thatThe level of abstraction in both RTWP and TB is way too high to achieve thatOnly because devs had seemingly no other choice but to make an RPG like this back in the 80s, doesn't mean they should still pump these faux strategy experiences out. Let alone pretending they're "truer" RPGs than action oriented stuff
>>740610763>have to think "tactically"Wtf why am I thinking instead of my characters making a tactical check!!1!
>>740584768RTWP is for ADHD brains though
>>740610109RPGs are an offshoot of wargames. Controlling multiple characters is fine. But it's supposed to be ROLEPLAYING so it has to simulate you doing a funny voice and asking the GM to invoke the "rule of cool" and let you win at everything with no roll required?
Having both is the obvious right answer. RTwP when you can confidently beat the encounter without micro management and turn-based when the encounter requires more second-by-second input.
>>740611020Nigga do you play TTRPGs with your friends and only stay focused on the game when it's not your turn? All you faggots are acting like CRPGs simply HAVE to be a 1:1 translation of tabletop and anything less is unacceptable.
>>740584013maybe it's just you being retarded
>>740610993>the whole point of RPGs is playing out a specific ROLE and FANTASY. Chosen by YOU for YOUR characterand those characters are definited by their stats, with every action limited or enhanced by those stats arkham is not an RPG because it makes you feel like the batman
>>740611276What does this have to do with anything? I pay attention to the entire game when playing ttrpgs even when it's not my TURN because it's important to know what's going on and how to craft a good turn myself.
>>740584013RTwP really is just the worst of both worlds.>Too slow and boring in turn-based.>Disorganised and random in real time.Either make turn based, or make realtime.Doing both just sucks.
>>740611387Bullshit, every table has side conversations going on about other interests. You don't have any friends. And in TB crpgs I might as well sleep when its not my turn because I'm playing singleplayer.
>>740611124>RPGs are an offshoot of wargamesand they shouldn't be once transposed to the videogame medium>so it has to simulate you doing a funny voice and asking the GM to invoke the "rule of cool" and let you win at everything with no roll required?no, it's supposed to let you immerse in the world and interact with it as you believe your character shouldmicromanaging the whole party goes against that
>>740611514What insane bizarre cope. I have been a part of a few different groups and while there might be some side convo, everyone is largely paying attentionSounds like you just have shit groups
>>740611332>with every action limited or enhanced by those statsand you can achieve that very same thing in a game that allows DIRECT input control of your character AND that doesn't force you to play a shitty version of a RTS
>>740611549>micromanaging the whole party goes against thatfor you, maybe
>>740611603I didn't say "not paying attention" this was in response to you claiming we're all ADHD. Which ADHD happens just as much in tabletop because people get bored waiting for their turns.
>>740611613no you can't. when you introduce real time mechanics the skill shifts from the character(s) to the player. go play any real time blobber and see much tile dancing matters
>>740612016so Mass Effect doesn't let you roleplay as Shepherd or what are you even saying? Just admit that realtime is better. The only reason why boardgames and therefore turn based even was invented is because it's not possible to do it realtime. But it is possible now in videogames.
>>740612016See >>740611006
>>740584180Remind me how Pillars of Eternity is doing again?Oh wait, that's right. It sucks and so do the other RTwP games Obsidian's done.
>>740612314Pillars of Eternity 2 was x5 better than anything Owlcat has ever produced and yet Owlcat trash sells more. The reason why it sells more is not because it's better, it's because they put romance and LGBT bullshit into it to attract the vast amount of discord trannies.
>>740612016>when you introduce real time mechanics the skill shifts from the character(s) to the playerthere's nothing wrong with that, as long as stats and character building choices still matter
The real purpose of RTWP is that it lets you turn your brain off and walk away during easy encounters and it scales well from playing a single character to running a full party with summons. RTWP games are historically very easy and the idea that they're somehow a harder more skillful genre is insane on several levels, in the lived reality of anyone who grew up with them, in the hypothetical space of their potential when the whole "with pause" part of the equation means that the way to optimize them is to pause regularly to line up your strategy, and also on principle since if your goal in a system was to emphasize executional ability you'd just make fucking active real time combat.
RTWP was always a bastard casualization of video games. The only reason RTWP came to be was because of Diablo. Every RPG that wanted to make money at the time HAD to be like Diablo, so devs were willing to fuck up classic turn based P&P roleplaying game mechanics just to fit a square peg into a round hole.
>>740613402>The only reason RTWP came to be was because of Diablo.What? It was the standard for DnD rpgs since Eye of the Beholder.
>>740613130The point isn't "emphasizing executional ability" and never was. Its the understanding that real combat (which every single combat TTRPG is an abstraction of) plays out in real time.
my retard brain can literally never even consider real time because i'd seethe endlessly every single time i catch myself casting a spell 1 second too late while simultaneously hoarding consumables i don't use
>>740584806It's not even out
>>740611549An party of NPCs would turn combat into protect-the-retards or they'd be handwaved as invincible. Just like in all video games.
>>740590713You would know if you ever came out of your jarpigsty but alas that will never happen.
>>740595070>playing not only Bioware trash, but xbox era Bioware trash>pretending your opinions on game design aren't completely worthlesslol
rtwp is just turn based with extra steps, turn based is simply superior
>>740609359What's your highest level of education and what do you do for a living?
>>740586521Baldur's Gate 3 is turn based and is not at all what you are describing turn based games to be
>>740609568>>740606707>>740606261I used to hang out on RPG Codex before the retardation became too much to bear. I can confirm that those bozos are literally all retards. Infinitron and Dark Underlord are probably the only dudes on that site with an IQ above 100.
>>740584013Game?>>740584180fpbp
i like doing this :)
rtwp is shit because it combines all of the disadvantages of turn based and real time with none of the advantages. consider what it would take to play a rtwp game fully in real time without pausing. your typical party is 6 characters and a "round" is 6 seconds long. each character takes a minimum of 3 inputs to control for the round: one to select the character, one to select an action, and one to select a target. that means it takes 18 inputs per 6 seconds or 180 actions per minute, enough to be a semi-pro rts player. obviously no one is playing the game like this. the only way rtwp actually "works" is by dumbing the game down so half your party has no abilities other than autoattacking, and by setting auto pause conditions that slow the game down to the point where it isn't any faster than turn based.
>>740615698>rtwp is just turn based with extra stepsI guess "everyone taking their actions in parallel" counts as an extra step
>>740617071>none of the advantagesOne advantage is it being more realistic thoughbeit
>>740616252>Game?Pathfinder 2.
>>740617150>combat starts>pause>let combat go for 0.5 seconds>pause>let combat go for 0.5 seconds>pause>let combat go for 0.5 seconds>pause>let combat go for 0.5 seconds>pauseebin gameplay
>>740617215realism is a disadvantage in video games
>>740617247Didn't recognize the UI at all but now that you've said it I recognize one of the portraits. Thanks
>>740611693Oh fair enough. Might be weird, but in anything turn based my friends and I always end up paying attention (mostly) during other people's turns
At some point you have to realize that the reason why some RPG elements even exist is because people wanted to simulate a knight fighting a dragon on a table top and can't literally fight a dragon. If you're going so far as to have real time combat (with pause or not), you might as well commit to making an action game.
>>740617402>take turn>watch 20 minutes while every mook and add and summon and the boss take their turn>take your turn again>watch 20 minutes while every mook and add and summon and the boss take their turn>it's been 40 minutes and you've gotten to play exactly twiceebin gameplay
>solves real time with pause combat
>>740619907>turns the game into a programming exercise
>>740584768>>740584768>Real-time actually requires player skillYes.>+pause Weak baby shit.
>>740584013The real truth is that both systems are only as good as their encounter design. a RTWP game with good encounter design > a turn-based game with shit encounter design and vice versa. The reason why Larian is so successful because they're basically the only ones who actually care about enounter design.
>>740620293>The reason why Larian is so successful becausethey made a turn based game instead of a meme like rtwp
>>740619907People are too stupid to use those, and Pathfinder's is worse than FFXII's.>mage gets attacked in melee>spams whatever defensive spell you set until they're out of concentration because there are zero options to check for defensive spells already being applied
>>740584013Just remove the pause and let people micromanage their characters in real time, or make it like an mmo and let you program your allies while you just control yourself (ff 12, xenoblade etc)
>>740612605>skill shifts from the character(s) to the player>as long as stats and character building choices still matterRetard>>740612156>so Mass Effect doesn't let you roleplay as Shepherd or what are you even saying?Mass effect is a tps game, it doesn't have any role-playing elements minus a basic level up system and story choices.
>>740617071Tb fag using numbers as usual.
>>740620383and if their turn-based game had shit encounter design it would be just as bad as RTWP
>>740622203no, it would be another example of "the combat sucks but at least I can get through it quickly"
>>740584013I don't mind RTWP but I think class design suffers from it. In Pathfinder games there are plenty of classes that have cool procs that are only available for a very short duration and it's not always to track them when you have to wrangle with five other retards on your party. For example the last time I played WOTR I had an Eldritch Knight who gets to cast spells with quicken metamagic for free after a crit but I barely used it because there's simply too much shit going on already, and the UI doesn't highlight it in anyway.
I don't mind if it's rtwp or turn based, I just hate 5E, it's the most boring shit ever
>>740622074>Retardsee >>740611006
>>740617402Yes, that is the fun part of rtwp. Even better when you're in the zone for a specific moment and pause every 0.1 seconds to get that spicy combo.
>RTWPretards that can't in action rpg>TB press X for awesome
>>740584013whate game
I just dislike pathfinder games because they are buffing simulators.
>>740625260In my opinion, if something secondary needs to be done all the time, it should be a core gameplay element, like armor or a passive ability that grants that bonus 24/7 or make a "super buff" that has 5 other effects simultaneously
>>740625750People will tell you to download mods that automatically do all the buffing for you with a straight face and act like it's not a problem. It's fucking ridiculous.
>>740584013>Holyyyy shit when are western CRPG devs gonnabstop using this old ass system and admit defeat to japanese devs and start implementing turn based combat in all their CRPG games?They have. Josh sawyer SEETHed he had to retrofit turn based in Pillars, et. al. after Baldur's Gay 3 stomped the shit out of Obsidian games.
luv me cheese in rtwpluv casting off screen aoeluv kitingsimple as
>>740625839>have to download a mod>have to have 2 ascensions to be 24 hours>have to sleep all the time to be permanenti hated that shit man
>>740625750Funnily, it's like that on pen & paper. You just make some side notes about the buffs and spells you use and the DMs rolls accordingly, if they're up.Also the players aren't expected to minmax and stack every possible buff.Also TTRPG sessions don't have as many trash encounters as vidya, so even if you had to "announce" your buffs after a rest, you'd do it once or twice per session and that's why you just write everything up anyway.The problem is RtwP stuck on trying to be a kind of digitized version of Dungeons & Dragons.
>>740617402There's no reason to be doing that, you just do it because you're a barely functioning neurotic mess
>>740626545everything dies to auto attacks anyways right? my fellow high IQ gamer
>>740626731In a 6-man party, fighter types can be automated because their natural strenghts are from their base stats + gear and improved ways they can use both.It leaves the need to micro two or three casters with various debuff and aoe utility.I only play rtwp once in a full moon so they don't aggravate me. It can get intense and micro intensive, but it depends on difficulty, too.
>>740626270They should increase the duration of the buff and make the group members automatically cast it at the start, as a free turn
>>740626270It's really weird that people act like RtwP is the "real" D&D game because the first big D&D games were all RtwP like Baldur's Gate...when D&D has always been a turn based system.
>>740623293this is another problem with rtwp. if I'm playing warcraft 3 and my character gets stunned it's very obvious because of the swirly graphic over his head. if I'm playing pathfinder and my character gets stunned I probably won't even notice at first until I see that he's not attacking, and then I have to pause the game and read through the combat log to see what actually stunned him and which healing spell will work to get rid of it.
>>740626945People still asking for RtwP are the ones who still like the Infinity Engine games. And companies like BioWare that wanted a broader audience just moved on entirely from that kind of game and went to the action route with "math" and called it RPG elements.I just find it funny how Deadfire completely floundered, so it means the infinity engine crowd got old and moved on themselves.
>>740627103The rpg ruleset pathfinder games are based on is a very do-or-die affair. So if you pass a save or check you're golden, if you fail it, you're fucked.The only way to deal with it is to completely neuter the risks with buffstacking or feats, because trying to adapt do it during combat isn't very flexible and sometimes not even viable.
>>740626828It gets boring because it becomes like an MMO bot in 90% of the dungeons, since if you don't want to play with "fighters" in your group, it just turns into a strange turn-based RPG.
>>740626945it's sad because the gold box games had great tactical combat
>>740627364It was based on popular RTS games at the time so it's only natural you don't absurdly micro every individual unit.Even games like the mentioned Warcraft 3 only have you managing specific spells and skills from a handful of units and other than hero units they don't do a whole lot of different stuff either.
>>740584013How is pausing and then strategizing out your entire party's individual turns at once a worse TB? You just don't like when the enemy gets a turn also aka ur a shitter
RTWP games are not deeper than real time or turn based games they're just poorly made making them more challenging to play because of bad mechanics, bad balance and bad design. This is partly developer incompetence, combined with it being a niche genre so the optimal gameplay ideology hasn't been discovered yet.
Feel like everyone who hates rtwp literally never pauses and are sub 80 IQs or what? I don't get it
>>740627683They either never pause or pause too much during the trashiest of trash mob fights.Gamer's aren't meant to deal with anxiety.
wtf is the point of adding pauses? Imagine if RTS had pauses how stupid is that.
>>740627629Envision a chess grandmaster in the middle of a square of tables playing 30 chess games against various people. He is the RTWP player while each person he is vs are the TB playersGlad to help
>>740627473>based on popular RTSno wonder it become soul crushing at times hun...
>>740627779Nothing you said was relevant to what I posted. Hope this helps.
>>740627742no pause = no buy
>>740627798I never verified this, but I always read how Bioware took the popularity of RTSs and even Diablo 1 in consideration when making the Baldur's Gate games.
this thread is a million posts long and no one talks about the actual boss in ops pick, dorudugan on hard mode, he is a pretty tough super bossi tried all kinds of methods for cheesing him, but ultimately i just ended up having pallegina to tank the shit out of him. i think i had the thing that allows you to disengage without proccing an attack on my main character, and i would whack him until he got aggro on me, and then walk away just before his auto animation finished. i also had eder use mule-kick on him and run away if he aggrod eder. xoti would just be spamming heals the whole time. i also had maia rua but she was just useless and couldn't do shit against him.some of his bomb spam can just be unfair and kill your whole party, but eventually i just got lucky and beat him. he was probably the hardest super boss for me. the slime wasn't nearly as hard.and yeah its harder to beat him on real time, and harder to beat him with story npcs as opposed to custom characters (like in op who is doing it the easy way like a faggot)
>>740627847It's literally just TB but all the turns are resolving at the same time and you can pause to manage each turn or not
>>740626852We already have games that solved the prebuffing "issue" >Only allow very long duration buffs to be cast outside of combat. >Those that can be cast outside of combat last until the next rest instead of arbitrary durations and can be cast from a menu without an animation>No short-duration prebuffing ever>You can now balance your game around the idea that parties won't have every buff under the sun for every fightIt's that fucking easy.
>>740584013It depends on the number of combat encounters that exists within the game. When I was playing through Kingmaker, the encounter rate was more like fucking Diablo 3 nonstop swarms, and so the auto battle feature worked well. If I had to do all of those encounters turn based, it would take an eternity to beat that game. The reason for rtwp is that the devs don't want to have to hand craft each combat encounter flawlessly like bg3 and say, final fantasy tactics. They just do waves of enemies to get combat done and quick.Tldr rtwp is blessed for nonstop enemy swarms, tb is best if the game devs meticulously craft each encounter like an actual dungeon master would.
>>740628104This also makes shit like spell sequencers and contingencies matter quite a lot.
>>740628042>You can pausethe problem is that if you don't pause, you lose your turn, and that makes other people pause a lot
>>740628161>meticulously craft each encounter like an actual dungeon master would.You never played d&d and only watch critical role
>>740628193This is just BG2 jargon. And they sucked ass, all those mage wars.They're only fine in the context that only BG2 actually did them decently.
>>740628104>You can now balance your game around the idea that parties won't have every buff under the sun for every fightIs that because you rely on spell memory as a constraint?What you're talking about sounds like I rest, then I open the menu, apply every buff under the sun, and then carry on until my next rest at which point I repeat the process.I mean what you're talking about doesnt' sound farm removed from WotR where every party has at least one with mythic duration and all spell slots dedicated to 24 hour mass buffs.
>>740628259False. You can program auto turns for warrior types etc easily you can also set auto pause for each turn reset usually if you can't then into the trash it goes
>>740628259>Didn't pause in time to manage his turnsYou aren't beating the sub 80 IQ allegations
>>740628354>falsefalse what ? this entire conversation is about the fact that rtwp are better because you don't need to pause, but people pause because there is a huge advantage to do so
I usually just pause when a random battle goes FUBAR and I need to figure out what the fuck happened and how my uber longswordsman got gibbed.
>>740626945Dnd is a turn based system because humans dont operate as fast as computers, it was a limitation not a design choice
>>740628773>uber longswordsman got gibbed
>>740628042it's really not. if I'm playing a turn based game I can easily set it up so that my fighter moves forward and ends his turn just out of range of the enemy archer while my mage starts casting his fireball at empty ground so it will hit both the enemy warrior and thief if they move forward. have you ever tried kiting in a rtwp game? you can't do anything with any degree of precision.
>>740628809This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Please for everyone's sake say that this is exquisite bait.
>>740628283Suck my THAC0, zoomer.
>>740628809there's nothing stopping you from making a real time tabletop system. maybe a chess clock for the party vs the GMit would be retarded and antithetical to what people want out of RPGs though
>>740625248piggu
>>740628912Gygax literally explains itThere isnt a way to run real time dnd, its too much for a DM
If you prefer turn-based you're either boring, retarded, or both. That's all there is to say.
>>740629014yes?
>>740628996>chess clockThats just turn based again, except initiative is split player:enemy instead of by individual units, which has already been done.
>>740629087:D
>>740628336>I mean what you're talking about doesnt' sound farm removed from WotRBecause you're ignoring the >No short-duration prebuffing ever—part. The point isn't to just to reduce the tedium of buffing. The point is to prevent the player from casting buffs that have such a short duration that casting them preemptively wouldn't make sense using the precognition and warped time scale that a videogame format creates. Using WotR as an example, a player can do something like clear an entire map/dungeon using in a single casting of haste because the timescale of measuring things in seconds, enabling the player to fly around at mach 10 and do something that would take a party half a day to do in a two minutes.Standardization cuts that. Buffs either last a day or an amount of turns in a single combat instance. The end.
>Turn based tactics is a genre>real time with pause tactics isn'tSays it all really, you can't have thought provoking combat when the ai is autobattling.
>>740584768>ultima 7>real time with pause>zero skill, simply an equipment check>if can't meet, turns into a fucking mess, characters do random shit, auto-flee causes dropping of critical plot items, etcWhat's most ADHD is generalizing when one can immediately point to examples that blow you out.
>be a wizard that can cast defensive spells that last for hours>be on an adventure where people and monster will be trying to kill you>"NO NO YOU CAMT PREBUFFF REEEE"Sorry you're too retarded to proactively defend yourself, fag.
I've only played solasta and pnp 5E:>martials are boring as shit (heard bg3 mitigated this by adding weapon/class feats)>bounded accuracy emphasizes rolls instead of modifiers>concentration limits spell varietythe major complaint for pathfinder is the buff stacking, which you don't really NEED in the games unless you're playing above challenging, which I do not recommend because things get stupid really fast and it limits your choicesflanking and sneak attack seem to be weirdly implemented in the games tooI would rather have an AP system instead of this silly action economy that we have in both, but then you get people autismaxxing whatever gives you AP, so I dunno
>>740629324I am very confused.You're talking about short duration buffs being the issue and if it weren't for short duration buffs then you wouldn't have a game balanced around having every buff under the sun, WotR your average party will have 10-20 24 hour buffs active at all times.The only ones that AREN'T active at all times are the ones like haste which as you note, require you to actually go out of your way to reach the the threshold that you can turn it into a 24 hour buff.
>>740584013I am having a total blast with Swordhaven. All the weapon sets have acrual shit to them.I am loving halberds
>>740586415Pity the story for both games are straight up retarded gay woke faggotry.
>>740626270>Also the players aren't expected to minmax and stack every possible buff.This is why I stick to normal difficulty with a few options cranked up a bit (extra enemies and some other shit I can't remember right now) when playing the Kingmaker and WOTR.I just want to go on an adventure and not worry about whether not dipping in some classes is going to fuck me over or having to constantly buff my party. If I'm going to fight something that I know is going to fuck me if I don't have 1 or 2 specific buffs then that's fine but I don't want to have to download a mod to manage buffs just because if I'm not buffed to the max I get stomped.
>>740584013This is the definitive worst boss I have ever fought in any cRPG I have ever played. What the fuck was Obsidian thinking. All the other megabosses were fine even the giant slime that can heal itself. Dorudugan was too fucking much of a damage sponge that the fight just become so sluggish that it takes at least around an hour to do the same things over and over again.
>>740629641It's about balance, numbskull. Prebuffing lets you steamroll through every encounter, so enemies will have to prebuff too or be made tougher so that prebuffing isn't an advantage anymore but a necessity.
>>740627683They're zoomers that never played a CRPG before BG3 and got filtered by every other game in the genre.
>>740588142Oh come the fuck on now. D:OS and D:OS2 aren't rpg's and you fucking know it.They're puzzle games. You have to figure out which intractable mcguffin to move where and when in order to kill the enemies with the environment. Since by default the enemies have a trillion of each kind of armour, so I'd you DONT move the right barrel of explosive onto the right patch of cursed oil to burn right through their ten million armour and kill them, you get to look forward to flailing away at a 'basic' enemy for ten hours.
thoughts on turn-based with free movement
>>740627985Dorudugan was designed to be needlessly retarded to fight against. It isnt like Belranga or Auranic where there's this super cool gimmick tied to it, Dorudugan is just a damage sponge that is immune to alot of shit and does alot of aoe attacks.
>>740630150this except its about teleporting enemies to unpathable spots
>>740630150NTA but you're acting as if that's the only way to play (and beat) the game.It's a classless system, you have a lot of ways to build your character and a lot of ways to take on the different fights.It's not perfect, I think it has too many mobility options and adrenaline is too good to not take on everyone in your party but the system give you a lot of flexibility.>Since by default the enemies have a trillion of each kind of armourI don't know if you played the Definitive Edition of DOS2 or not but they adjusted armor values so most enemies wouldn't have a lot of both types of armor. They usually have high physical lo magical or viceversa, very rarely both.
RTWP sucks. It was only ever a cope for early mmos it never should have been in single player games.
>>740630310Turn based with scouts sprinting to the objective.
>>740631206
>>740628161/thread
Is there a full list of RTwP crpgs in here? Is OP just complaining about old Baldur's Gate games and whatever he bumped into on Kickstarter?
>>740584180Nah, synchronous turn based (as opposed to sequential turn based) is the best system of all.
>>740584013Yeah, WEGO is the best system.
>>740584013WRPGs are bad in general. Doesn’t matter if it’s RTWP or turnbased or action adventure. The only good WRPG is Morrowind, but that has been forsaken by its creators and hardcore RPG gamers which shows how poor their taste is.
>>740584013Turn based is an American concept you retard zoomer
>>740584013Rtwp is the exact same as turn based, but faster. Look, I know you are too stupid to think ahead unless the enemy stays perfectly still while you run your entire turn, but here is a tip: place the fireball you keep missing where the enemy is going to be, not where it currently is, you fucking idiot.
>>740635091You mean a Mesopotamian concept.
>>740607514>TB is entirely based on abusing the best build, combination of itens, breaking the action economySo being an actual RPG? Because the strategic part of an RPG is in the charOp to handle a variety of situations, not in taking some generic toolset and spamming the AoE on the obvious fatal funnel.
>>740584180>all those samefagging replieslmao
>>740632086Still no list. Probably because its extremely small, like Pillars of Eternity, BG 1 and 2 and Icewind Dale and some hybrids like Kingmaker that have both and pass on a technicality.
>>740631206Hello Valkyrie chronicles
>>740584013Real-Time with Pause is a product of its time, the reason it was made was because RTS was very popular during the 90s, it was a trendy genre with a lot of sales, so the Crpg devs decided to introduce this fast paced system to their games instead of the classic/traditional turnbased that was in Wizardry.They casualized and simplified the system from RTS to Real-Time with Pause giving the casual Crpg player more time and space to comfortably tackle their combat system, notice how RTS and Casual Crpgs share the same enemy design of trash mobs, the old Crpg devs couldn't design good gameplay so they mindlessly copied the trash mobs of a regular RTS game.Diablo is the only fast paced Crpg that had decent combat and i say only decent, the rest sucked and ironically enough they knew it, so instead they focused most of their resources of writing dialogue, quests and companions.So at the end of the day RTWP is just a casualized/simplified RTS system made for the casuals of the Crpgs.Years later some Jrpg devs tried to take on the RTWP with Xenoblade and FF12, ironically they did better than Crpg devs with it, but it still feels like a halfassed merge of both system, its not as tactical, RPGesque or engaging as Turnbased, and its not as immersive or satisfying as real time action, clearly not skill-based as them either.So its the worst of both worlds without any of the goods.People who still pander or crave Real Time with Pause are just either nostalgia braindead cultists or extremely low iq people that convinced themselves that they are strategical masterminds.
Blud be getting he ahh pozzed in rel time :skull:
>>740632086RTWP Crpgs are all the games based on the infinity game engine, they were made mostly from the late 90s to the early 2000s.Years later some devs were inspired to copy them because they grew up playing them, just like how indie devs copy Chrono Trigger or FF7.When you put all RTWP Crpgs in a list you will find out a common theme between all of them.First their encounter design is complete garbage, its always the case, trash mob spam, and very repetitive and low effort and low quality.Second they are extremely janky, the way you control them is highly unresponsive and restrictive. Third you will find that they are hideous and look super ugly.Fourth you will find that they are extremely buggy and riddled with glitches, because they can't code well.Fifth you will find that combat lacks a lot of depth, usually the player is asked to perform very few input, as the winning factor is already decided on the menu screen from building and prebuffing, so the moment to moment gameplay and decision making is barely there.Sixth you notice that boss fights are horrendous and are not memorable, there is no cool or interesting attack patterns to be had.Seventh you notice they seriously lack in creative or innovative game design, the games are cookie cutter casual slop made to shove down your throat walls of text in dialogue boxes instead of interesting gameplay.And finally you will notice that when it comes to combat/gameplay they dont take advantage of their RPG mechanic and systems in the same with turnbased does.They are just boring to play, always have been always will be. You will notice how real time action and turnbased have some memorable and highlight games for their combat system, but you won't ever find that for RTWP because it has always sucked, not a single highlight game people refer to unlike the other 2 systems.Also take any year in gaming history and check out the top combat battle system of the year, it will never be rtwp
>>740640348there is nothing more tactical about TB, why can't you understand that? You are not playing chess, any tactical situation that could be designed by TB can also be designed in RTWP. RTWP literalyl also has turns, it's the exact same system as TB with the only difference being that you don't have your units frozen unrealistically and taking 30min for fights. The original designers of Diablo 1 also started with TB and realized quite correctly that it's just gay and stupid, realtime is better. So at most you can make an argument that RTWP isn't realtime enough, it's not diablo-like enough to be fun enough, that it doesn't require enough realtime reactions to justify realtime control. And on that I would agree, RTWP is actually too turn based. It would be better if they moved more towards the Mass Effect model because ultimately I don't really want to control the other party members, it's not how DnD is supposed to be played and party members are supposed to be independent personalities and players that you interact with, not control like puppets.
>>740641193I really dont give a shit what a rtwp fanboy want to say.
>>740641151>not a single highlight game people refer to unlike the other 2 systems??? EVERY single crpg was RTWP and was beloved and legendary because of it. BG1, BG2, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights.. the trash delusions around turn based being better only started later. And once again: There is no encounter design in TB that you cannot make exactly the same way in RTWP. You are not playing chess, it does not matter how clever you feel for for two barrels somewhere in the door or some chandelier that you can shoot at to make it drop down. All of that can be done in realtime too, it's just not even that important and actually freaking lame. Turn based games *fill* their shit encounters with these gimmicks constantly which is why Larian was always so memed about being an explosive barrel game. And they know that their game is trash and they stopped caring, they let you carry 50 explosive barrels around and place them directly in front of the enemy group and they wont say anything. That to you is good encounter design.
>>740584768No it doesn't.
>>740641483I fail to see how RTwP is why those games were beloved. They were well written, had great characters and were some of the first real D&D RPGS. The combat was not why they were good.
>>740584180Fippity bippity.
>>740641981>They were well written
I think I'm starting to see the pattern in all these arguments, the TB people are getting deluded by the slowness of the decision and the fact that they are forced to make them that their decisions actually mattered. But no, in TB crpgs your fight decisions matter just as little as they do in Diablo. When was the last time you planned ahead several turns like in actual chess? NEVER. The few times that something similar happens where you think: "oh in 3 turns this enemy is going to cast X, so I better do Y now" the decision is trivial. Like yeah oh wow, the troll is going to enrage when he is half hp. Damn, what a highly tactical situation, what will your Einstein brain come up with to counter this tactical conundrum in TB?? Oh wait, you have to do the exact same planning as you would do in a realtime game where you know that the enemy is going to cast X soon.
>>740641151>wall of text that reads like chatgpt wrote itStill not a full list of western crpgs that use RTwP.
>>740642194Here's your list bro
>>740642152For the time yes they were. Compared to nowadays? Simple really but they had the presentation and the 'ahead of its time' kind of thing.Alas.
>>740642282You don't want to provide a full list because it will directly collapse your premise in the OP where you whine like a little twink that there's too many.
>>740642307LMAO They were easily beaten by any decent Jrpg of their respective year, not to mention other genres.What's really funny is that you claimed they had great characters and "presentation", you are a good joker mate.
i cant decide what to play in pathfinder kingmakermy friend said that means i dont want to actually play it but i dont think thats true, im just indecisive
>>740642630I simply said that it wasn't the combat system as to why the games were loved at the time, that it was the story and the characters that made the games what they were. Are they good now? No. The combat system is why I refuse to touch them.
>>740642630JRPGs are literally the worst trash that has ever been on this planet in terms of rpg, only forever children would ever play a JRPG and walk away thinking that this infantilized world with overacted characters that act like Son Goku are good.
This is the same encounter, in a game that has both RTwP vs Turn-GayBasically the exact same combat but one is exactly one minute while the other is 6+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxcEP5eZRcMYou have to be a glue-sniffing retard to prefer Turn-Baby when you compare them like this.
>>740586268Kek, turn-babies are redditors?
>>740586268THIS is the end game of this discussion.RTwP is just too difficult for normalfags/third-worldies/niggersYou go everywhere and these fags just spell it out for you without prompting, it's only when confronted by it that they backpedal on the issue, but even here you can find some of these idiots slipping on that same argument.
>>740645024>needs to apply his Tron color buffs>watch the game play itself >thinks he's smartglorified idle game
>>740646405
>>740645024One looks closer to what real combat looks like.The other looks like a bunch of retarded larpers standing in the same place for no reason.You may have a thousand arguments on why you like TB.But there's no argument against how fucking stupid and lame it looks.
we need a game system built for RTWPguild wars 1-like CRPG when
>>740647108that game is idle clicker first and turn based second might as well play a real RTS that try to simulate "real" combat
>>740641483>There is no encounter design in TB that you cannot make exactly the same way in RTWP.You are very, very wrong.
>>740641193Jagged Alliance 2 is massively better than its RTWP counterpart.
>>740645024Trvke
>>740645024RTWP portion is played very quickly by somebody who knows the game..TB portion is played by somebody who has turned on tb mode for the first time ver, even fumbling through menus and commands.RTWP fags are lying retards as usual.
>>740651090>>740645024I've seen this exact same discussion before the guy just shaved off all issue commands on the TB part and only let the animations play and it still it was 5+ minutes.
>>740584180trvealsodobeit, rtwp has untapped potential, most implementations are janky although fun still
>>740651176>haved off all issue commandsYeah, only leaves setting animation speed on anything except lowest and not using spacebar to skip shit quickly,It is about 1.5 minutes when done properly.
>>740651986>You see you have to be able to issue commands instantly, then put all animations on maximum spee-forget that, just skip all animations, that's how you play it properly.
>>740584768On the contrary, action games are for petty childish people who think they should be able to cheat their way out of their bad choices by pressing buttons quickly enough. Also why did you post your selfie?
>>740652162Yes. Most people who play tb, either skip or make the animations go as fast as possible since you have seen the same animation a million times.
FPBPPBPFPBP oh my Fauci take my upvote good gentleser!
>>740652162>>740652371>It would STILL take longer, somehow
>>740652371
>>740652371>SKIP MY SHIT UP!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAnK-1OSeOo
>>740584180FPBP
>>740652609>muh menus and numbers badNot that Anon but this is just ARPG faggotry.
>>740652726Did you miss the part where he just straight up admits that you have to skip all animations to play TB properly?Nice "video"-game you have there.
>>740584013this game made me feel like i should stop trying to gameify the activity of reading and just read a book. lmfao
>>740584180correct. turn based is anti-immersion, you don't live in the moment.
>>740652772>Did you miss the part where he just straight up admits that you have to skip all animations to play TB properly?And why is that a problem for a genre known for trash encounters?Only RTWP fags think that looking at you character swinging a sword for multiple seconds for a fodder enemy is the greatest thing ever.Plus, if you could actually read, you would have noticed this part "have seen the same animation a million times.".
>>740584180i don't like RTwP because, in my experience, you can't exercise the same level of fine control you can in a turn-based game. RTwP feels more like you're making moment-to-moment suggestions to your party more than anything. and that gives the enemy AI an unfair advantage – they can micromanage every NPC simultaneously but i can't do the same with my heroes.
>>740653186> enemy AI an unfair advantageEvery rtwp fag/designer knows this. That is why almost all encounters are trash mobs and the bosses are annoying.There is no sollution.
>>740584361>have turn-based modes for a reasonThe reason is that "modern audiences" have double digit IQ
This is me and my witch
>>740584180Blessed post, zoomers seething.
>>740584013>correct way of “playing” it is to not actually do anything and just automate your party to do all the fighting for you
>>740628912he's absolutely correctyou're the retarded one
Turn based is best with a solo character, real time is best with a team, simple as
>>740656003Other way around. Pathfinding makes rtwp a joke for anything more than 1 person and tb 1 person is boring as fuck.
I think some anons here are just saying things like someone with tourettes and not because they actually have opinions based on their own gameplay experiences
>>740655683>just automate your partythat is doing something
>>740629176RTWP games work like that, you can even disable the "cosmetic attack animations" and see that each character onyl swins once every 6 seconds, it's a turn based game on a clock
>>740584180This, tbqh
>>740586268>i get that you can pause but why not just not pause and make it turn basedNOT BEATING THE ALLEGATIONS (sub 80 iq)
rtwp is literally turn based but with all running clocks.i can play both, and there are things u can do in rtwp that feel awesome with combos going off or being comboed by the enemy, its just totally different but at the same time not that different, and the micromanaging / decision making you can do is MORE turn based than turn based
>>740656423The thing is that many people here suck owlcat's dick and hate on larian due to reasons entirely outside the gameplay, this discussion is poisoned from the start.
>>740657046>The thing is that many people here suck dick due to entirely poisoned
>>740645024>zero verticality and interactivity with world>the environment is just a painted backgroundhow can people play a game like this in in the year 2020+6
>>740656675only true for dnd style turn system.game in op is completely async.
I like RTWP because it lets me more or less play by ear. I can see that something is happening and react immediately rather than waiting for my turn. Yeah, it can mean I pause a lot, but it's pretty fun to let your tactics be very precise while not requiring split second reaction time. Actions can happen in less than a turn, or in the middle of a turn. Setting your guy to attack for a bit leaves the turn timer up for when you need to quaff a potion, or cast a spell while in normal turn based systems, filler attacks usually take up the same type of turn. And there are no take-backs. You can't just decide a few seconds later to stop attacking something and instead go catch the enemy wizard about to cast something with a quick counterspell, or a dragons-breath potion.Granted, I only have experience with RTWP from the Infinity engine games, so maybe once I get past AD&D it'll start to feel as bad as everyone else is saying.Personally, I've only played a few tactical grid Turn based RPGs, usually not for long because I generally don't vibe with that kind of gameplay. A more analogue system like RTWP just kind of feels right.I'll try to play one CRPG that offers both modes twice to get a better handle on the difference in feel. Next on my play list is Arcanum, but I've heard that one's got some bad combat no matter what you do. I wasn't really a fan of Fallout's combat, so that probably doesn't bode well.
>>740584013>all of OPs bitchingLarian solved this ages ago and does it 1000000000x better than ANY JRPG. Nobody plays JRPGs for the combat so don't pretend they're better
>>740629917what the fuck is woke about PoE1 you ape, $5 says you never even played it.
>>740584180fpbp>>740609049>People with an IQ below 85 have (severe) difficulty learning to drive a car, and for those with an IQ under 70, it is nigh impossible. It is honestly no surprise that low IQ morons have issues with real time games.High IQ chads, rejoice.
>>740584180Preach it, king.
Rtwp fags boast about iq because of reaction times.Too retarded to understand what the p in rtwp stands for.
is this all a larp? it's retarded
Trying to adapt TRPG into an electronic game 1:1 is really dumb idea, because the core part of the TRPG experience obviously can't be simulated, actually go to LM and ask to run a one shot adventure for you if you really want the true TRPG experience, computer RPGs should try to play to the strengths of the medium.
The way you can bridge the gap with TB and RTwP is if you made an auto-battle mode for a TB game where the AI takes control and speeds up the TB for you then you can jump in at any time to resume turn-based mode during the battle. We actually do have the tech that can make RtWP more dynamic based on every action game that has come out since.
There's a reason it'sTurn BASED
>>740653186RTwP should work like a fighting game where you can pause the fight at any time and input a series of inputs for your fighter to follow when you resume fighting. An action game with queued inputs is literally all what RtwP is and why there's a certain vision for it, all of which are utilizing a computer to calculate several stat crunches in less than a second over a series of intervals. It was never just a product of its time.
>>7406486597.62 has much better combat than JA2 and JA3, the problem is everything else.
>>740584180This man speaks the truth. RTwP hasn't even began to see its actual potential in CRPGs yet.
RTwP = Total War combatTB = Field of Glory combat'nuff said
>>740660123RTwP = good modular gameplayTB = forced slow baby mode for retarded faggots'nuff said
>>740584361The reason for this isn't some kind of revelation. It's literally just a gimmick option. It's completely inferior to the RTwP every single time and literally pads out so much time that you have to artificially increase all the damage and half the movement speed of all units in combat for turn based to work.
The philosophy of turn-based games in general, even in tabletop, is the quantification or economy of action. It's why in some wargames you are literally separating a "move phase" from a "melee" or "shooting" phase since it is further being quantified as to how much one can do in a turn (hence free actions are absolutely busted in any turn-based game or anything that gives or refreshes your action economy). With the advent of computing, that shit isn't fucking necessary at all and it all can happen in less than a second, I don't have to measure how many "movement points" I'm allowed to do before I have to stop and see if I have any action points to spare to do anything else.
>for retarded nonsense reasons, I will decide not to play half of the games in my niche autist genre which already has no gameswhat a bunch of niggers
This thread got me thinking how a RTwP Battle Brothers would even work.
>>740645024>turn-gaylmao
RTWP > Initiative TB > I go-you go TB (XCOM)Take it from a professional.
>>740584180I like how this retard didn't even post an argument. The genre is dead for a reason.
>>740660687I wish that game had RTwP, because some of the battles take fucking forever. Holy shit.
>>740660823I go you go is faster
>>740660823>I go-you goI keep forgetting this is an actual fucking term in gaming (IGOUGO). I've just been saying team-based turns.
>>740660926it's a self-evident truth
>>740660926This entire thread is arguing for RTwP, anon.
>>740660935Yeah, you should no longer be doing turn-based when there's 100+ units on play literally taking turns activating so you're waiting for like 10 mins per round until you can act again.
>>740661001What is? In MMOs, people use their computer to perfectly execute their mashing. In RTS, everything eventually devolves into bad micro and deathball mechanicsThis is the exact same shit that happens in RPGs with "real time" pause or otherwise. It's bad game design that doesn't let you explore the space.
>>740661090RtwP hasn't been explored enough in gaming. It's not bad game design, there just hasn't been a good action-implementation of RTwP that complements its strengths to the fullest.
>>740660949>I go you go is fasterIt makes the game look silly, the entire enemy team just watching you stomp them before reacting.If we pretend turn based is meant to abstract a real life engagement too complex for real time, initiative represents the reflexes, quick thinking, dexterity etc. of a character/unit/whatever.What does IGOUGO represent exactly?
>>740661090>In RTS, everything eventually devolves into bad micro and deathball mechanicsso you also don't know anything about RTS
>>740661164>It makes the game look sillythis is gold coming from you, all TB games look silly already in that regards, XCOM games at least have highly lethal reaction shots for that exact reason, to punish carelss maneuvering in front of the enemy, dnd only has a very inneffective opportunity attack rule.
>modern CRPGs>gets TB mode added>moden TB CRPGs>doesn't get RTwP mode addedI rest my case
>>740661164Not him but IGOUGO is meant to emphasize first and foremost a player's team and how the action economy can be divided into said team. It also retains player retention more where they don't get bored waiting for their one character to act in a round because he got his initiative score fucked.
>>740661309It's a patrician taste thing. It cannot be explained in plebeian terms.
>>740661309one of the most popular BG3 mods turns it into real time
Turn-based RPGs should have everything be turn based in them. Even out-of-combat movement.
>>740661164>It makes the game look silly, the entire enemy team just watching you stomp them before reacting.>he never actually played a xcom game
>>740661484Even dialogue conversations?
>>740661163Every retard has tried shoehorning this shit mechanic into digital TTRPGs for the last generation. It doesn't work. I even remember playing kotor again and the AI will just run into landmines and shit. The microing is retarded. Queuing actions removes reactive agency. It's a shir genre for retards.
>>740661556The problem there is shit pathing not RTwP. Come on, anon
>>740661593>I-its shit pathingThen why does it keep happening?
>>740661649Because the pathing is shit
>>740661525Of course
>>740661676>Then why does it keep happening?
>real RTwP has never been tried
>>740660823WEGO is the best system, but we are not ready yet for this conversation.
>>740661518>he never actually played a xcom gameAhem..N-
>>740662082nu-com doesn't have reaction shots?
I can't even imagine how you can have something like Mewgenics as RTwP. >Queue scatter shot>Your retard party melee AI puts you into a ball of death>Wipe out everything You literally cannot refute this. Turn-based adds a level of depth that's literally impossible to have unless you're a computer capable of insane levels of APS.
>>740662146It does, but it's not like every enemy has them, most will just stare at you while their entire pod is slaughtered.Which is another problem if I go you go, it rewards alpha striking too much
>>740662160>with Pause
>>740662298that's just shitty encounter design, not a problem with the system itself
>>740662383>You don't understand bro, you just have to replicate the turn based experience while fighting with "bad patching" and other unresponsive controls and watch the activity log so you make sure you send your shit once you tard wrangled everyone into position This RTwP cope is getting out of hand. I'm starting to think your ilk are just assmad I'm right and are violently coping.
>>740585958we're the chuds you little yid.
>>740642873JRPGs like Xenogears and Suikoden 2 and Final Fantasy Tactics mog all CRPG stories of their time.Better story, characters and presentation.Even without counting combat they lose
>>740662298alpha striking advantage has nothing to do with the combat system, it's a feature of combat itself in every form, in initiative TB games the most broken builds tend to be about getting initiative, more actions and alpha striking as well
>>740593597saying wikipedia isnt a source has always been retarded. the source should always be the most available thing so you can read it and determine if it's bullshit or not without spending hundreds of dollars.
>>740662640>JRPGs like Xenogears and Suikoden 2 and Final Fantasy Tactics mog all CRPG stories of their time.This type of retardation is grounds for permanent banning on chan.
>>740593597AI is a modern day oracle
>>740586521Delete this post until you defeat him on nightmare. hes the first boss so no complaining.
>>740658629its for people who failed at rts so they can larp.rtwp is the worst system ever made, its shallow, boring and a pipeline to trash encounter and combat design. There is not a single rtwp with good combat and that says something.
>play WOTR in real time>haha time to attack after buffing my ass to high hea...>everything is lagging as fuck>holy fuck particle effects everywhere>what's that fps drops to single digit when every fucking demon is spamming their spellsFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>>740662694Cry more
>>740584013I started enjoying RTwP and RTS in general once I accepted the messy chaos and opportunity cost of dividing your focus is part of the fun. That being said, turn-based is still better.
>>740610273>I'm a brain damaged zoomletCRT filters on consoles that did not have them are 100% based and superior to whatever they originally looked like and you cannot show me a single game that looks worse.The video you replied to does NOT use a CRT filter at all you stupid fucking nigger.
>>740595780this is revisionist history. the RTWP tards just think they are grognards. the old games where all turn based. then diablo came out, and nobody would ever sell a game that didn't look and play like it on PC.
>>740584013I honestly really like Turn Based RPGs because it really feel like each move I make has relevance and I can really see and understand the effects my moves have on enemies. The biggest fucking problem with it is that it takes fucking forever to do one fight. I usually switch it on and off between bosses that I'm struggling with because otherwise the entire game would take hours. I left it on turn based in PoE2 and it took me 40 hours to get through act 1 so I just had to turn it off or I'd be spending a good 120 hours on that game. Currently going through Pathfinder: WOTR and I turned it on for the bosses I struggled with on RTwP and had a lot of fun trying to figure out who the problem was and how to beat them by slowly thinking through each move.
>>740625839>>740625260people tolerate pathfinders awfulness because they have a backlog of actual builds in mind that they never get to play because their DM banned and or quit before they got to do so. for a new player theres almost no benefit.
>>740663023>RTWP tardsThey are crashing out in this thread trying to convince everyone with above average IQ to change their mind about it by using disingenuous arguments, terrible examples and appeal to 4chan retarded memes (like blaming the zoomers or adhd or some other meme)Its the final cries of a dying (retarded) creature.
>>740663258cant tell if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me but that doesnt feel like a reply to my post at all either way so I'm just going to call you an LLM
>>740663208This is the most astroturfed RPG on the internet, its insane the ratio between its hype and boosted threads vs its actual game quality, numbers and accolades.Even when the shills try to sell this game to you their arguments usually suck and are not even related to the game itself, which also proves why its a scam.
>>740584013I don't get the point. Either make it RT or don't.
>>740663591like i said, its played because people already play pathfinder. its audience is pathfinder players. anyone shilling it for free is probably also someone who wishes you would play it and then maybe put up with their character concepts in the future since this isnt like divinity and isnt multiplayer in any way.
>>740664009> its audience is pathfinder players.Lmao tourists are so funny I can't..Its audience are old school RPG players, because Pathfinder 1e is basically DnD3.5
>>740584645>says rtwp is a vestige of the past>thinks turn-based combat isn'tPeak retard.
can you post the fucking name of the game
>>740585149>there is no action economy so you could basically spam actions like a brain dead retardThis is such a violently dumb point to make that I find it hard to believe you are being honest, are you aware about the passage of time?
>>740625260Aren't most RtWP games about buffing before the fight? I seem to recall spending a good 5 minutes buffing the party and calling summons before a lot of fights in BG2
>>740664750Look like pillars of eternity, I guess the first one there's not enough niggers to be the second one
Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is better DESU
>>740664846Phwoar is that Nalia de'Arnise?
>>740665025Yes, my cute wife.
>>740584013>>740584180> Real Time + Single playable character = KINO> Turn Based + Multiple playable characters = KINO> Turn Based + Single playable character = BORING> Real Time + Multiple playable characters = chaotic mess> Real Time with Pause = dogshit abomination no matter the context
>>740584180FPwP
>>740584180FPBPTotal TB brainlet death.
>>740652857>You see, it's because in RTwP you actually want to see the battle unflod while Turn-Gay you just skip! That means TB is better.An astounding victory for Turn-Baby.
>>740653186Bwahahahahahahaha
If you play with TB, lower your tone when you talk to me.
>RTwP schizo still seethingHow many years has it been at this point?
Have any games tried doing a replay at the end of a turn-based battle, when it plays out the fight as if everything were happening in real-time?
How would you react to an opinion that clearing a fort full of goblins for 60 minutes straight, 55 minutes of which you'll be watching goblins move around the area instead of playing the game, is fun?
>>740584180>>740584013In case anybody was wondering why TB is gaining traction in vidya again, read this.>>740584180First post, best post!
>>740667069>TB used to be implemented due to technical limitations>TB is now implemented because people are stupidDamn.
>>740664860Yes. RtWPfags don't want to admit it but the olden CRPGs and even new ones always have the pre-buffing segment. You might get by a couple of encounters on that buffing segment but eventually you are going to have to rebuff.
>>740584013RTwP was the half step to force the entire RPG genre to go all action game slop.
>>740667937no, that was people having shit taste
>>740668090The most retarded looking system ever created.Is this what TBfags imagine while playing a fight in Tabletop.God, it's so fucking lame.
