>save the mmo genre
>>740625484it looked more like Highguard 2 than Guild Wars 3
>>740625484Will gear actually matter or will it be a casual game that leveling means nothing in and gear is just basically cosmetic? Is it going to be horizontal yet again?
MMOs died the moment phones became the norm and people stopped socializing with strangers
>>740625484Chud Wars
>>740625484>already confirmed to be smaller squad based gameplay instead of 100+ people on a mapIts over dude
>first thing you see is a niggerYea I don't think so. Clearly they haven't learned from their mistakes, they've been bleeding money for years. Between this and the targeted ban on Roze because muh wholesome CCs only, the game is dead. Most recent xpac had some faggy gender affirming quest or something. Arenanet doesn't realize if they would stop with the pandering and focused on good story telling combined with the already good game mechanics it would sell significantly better. FFXIV and WoW are learning the hard way currently as well.
>>740625484It won't, many GW2 fans are apathetic about it
>>740625772that'd be nice
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>740625915gw2 was gay
>Save the MMO GenreJust like GW2 did before it right. Nah, it'll be a political propaganda skinnerbox wearing the face of an MMO just like GW2.
>>740625484So it'll have combat that isn't just picking an option on a hotbar and waiting on various cooldown timers?
>>740625915GW2 are getting GW1 fan'd and have been seething about it since the trailer.
>>740625484anon, pleaseliterally the best case scenario here is a yassified PSO2 with gay romance subplotsgaynet will be lucky if they can save their own jobs
>>740625484It looks like tranny colored Breath of the Wild or Monster Hunter Wilds.
>>740625738Hopefully.
>>740626150Gw2 is an upgrade to 1 in literally every way. We'll have to wait to see what 3 has to offer.
>>740625852>targeted ban on Roze beWhat. Explain
>>740626396Some anet dev was lurking in the stream of the only funny content creator for gw2. He googled anets headquarters then googled some gun, and that was the end of the bit. He was permanently banned the next day off the game and banned on twitch.
>>740625738No, they're not going to make the single most retarded design decision possible.
>>740626150But uncle Colin say they will take care of us1111!!!1
>>740625915>gw2>fans
>>740626391Give it a rest, tranny. GW1 has officially outlived GW2.
>>740625484>no sexy loli-typesdon't really care, also GW isn't very good. We're only okay with WoW and XIV because of nostalgia, MSQ feels, and mods.Everyone wants an MMO with actual gameplay that ditches boring questing and shitty pointless dungeons where bosses just afk as your party hits them. XIV's Bozja was the only good idea in recent MMO history. EVERYTHING in there is a challenge, and you can play solo, in a party/raid with friends, or with a hundred other random players. We need to literally just hop on because>hopping on my MMO for some funrather than>time to grind/dailies
>>740625915Can't help but laugh because GW2 fans were the ones that fucked GW1 over. Chef's kiss
>>740625484Just remake gw1 in 3 and my money is yours
>>740626668>gw1 player calling anyone a tranny Kek>outlivedAnd ESL.
>>740625484>gaynetzomg I can't wait for all the representation
Most of the opinions in this thread are brown.
>>740626714This>>740626150Good>>740626391L m a o
>>740626490Kek, thank for the info
>>740626391>Gw2 is an upgrade to 1 in literally every wayexcept the gameplay story music and art direction
Did they ever fire that chick who was writing for GW2 and made it one of the gayest games Ive ever played?Because holy shit
>>740626743https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outliveYou will be as dead as your game is when you join the 41%. GW1 chads will continue to play our game with our kids and grandkids.
>>740626996nonow beat up the bigot
>>740626535and what would that be
>>740626996depends on which chick you mean
let me guess>no multiclassing>no lvl 20 cap>still has a gear treadmill>launches for years without proper guild warsGW1 was done dirty by those fucking gooks and fags
>>740626996they haven't managed to keep more than a couple writers for more than a year or two
>>740625484>GW>saving MMOsNot unless they push back to more skill based combat that GW1 dabbled lightly in (ideally to full active combat like Tera). But it is probably gonna be tab-targeted slop.
>>740626714>GW1 still getting new updates and content while GW2 goes into maintenance modepottery
>>740627030You googled the definition and are still pretending you're not a retard. Absolutely insane how braindead you are. I guess when you play a single game for 30 years it deteriorates what little you had there to begin with.
>>740625484>guild warssorry anon but it wont save the mmo genre. what will save it are older mmos like Star Wars Galaxy Legends which despite being old is better then even World of Warcraft
>>740627210>outlived>both games are currently up and receiving updates >gw2 over 10x the players of 1>I..I'm not the same anon!!!Christ you're pathetic. Just admit you don't know English.
>>740627035Is this an American thing? Why do people post it every thread?
>>740627220>the game whose main appeal is to literally have a second jobmaybe go play VR chat or something, because I can't imagine any other scenario where I would want to log in to an mmo where I play as a bartender or whatever
The one thing that pissed me off about GW2 is that there was no >Default tone for equipmentback when I played. Like, it just automatically slammed your pre-configured colors for a slot onto whatever the fuck you put onto it. I wouldn't have a problem with this IF there was also an option to have >default appearance, no dyes, for every bit of equipment I could even see stuff that was on the GW2 cash shop thing that was obviously some sort of silver-ish plate armor, but there was no way to actually configure it to that without fucking around and trying to approximate it, as it just became shit brown like the leather stuff I was wearing previously or whatever. Horrible fucking idea. Not to mention that the so called "Dye Remover" color was not "remove all the dye, gear default visibility" but rather "an off-tan prefab beige nightmare" for some goddamn reason. I don't know if they ever fixed this but for a game where you're supposed to be be horizontal progression new gear etc.. no idea why they did this as it was just offputting that I couldn't eevn see what an outfit was supposed to look like by default on my character
>>740627220swg gameplay sucks ass and always has even before they tried to WoW-ify itit’s a shame since the sandbox features are great
>>740627316>GW1>GW2name which game is free to playhard mode: no coping
>>740627035Is this real? I stopped doing any story that wasn't required for instanced content. I literally tele to friend for arborstone on every character
>>740627486>dragging the goalpost I accept your concession.
>>740627496it's real alright
>>740627496Yes.Also a character introduces you to themselves with their made up gender in the first sentence when you meet them, before even telling you what their skillset is to help you in the current dire situation.
>>740627575>>740627617It's way worse than I thought lmao. I have like 5k hours in this game, but I only play instanced and open world content. Avoiding all story. Seems like my play was optimal
>>740625484Ok but show the gameplay because GW2 combat sucked. I would take WoW over it.
>>740627552>it has more players, that means it's BETTER>no ignore that it's F2Pby your logic Fortnite is the best game of all timewhy isn't GW1 F2P? It's 21 years old, you can legally fuck it and it can drink alcohol
>>740625738>Vertical progressionWhat has this actually done for WoW and XIV other than make 99% of WoW's content unplayable and make XIV put item level caps on every single piece of content?If every piece of WoW gear since 2005 had the same stats as BWL, people would still do every raid because they enjoy it, they want the transmog, they want the shiny horse, and to show everyone else how leet they are. Then they'll do it again on hardcore autism mode because they want the same shit but in the exclusive red and black color scheme. The only actual difference would be I could go back and play Throne of Thunder if I wanted to.Horizontal progression is the one thing GW2 objectively got correct.
>>740627734>>740627496https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxTiwKvp348Check out this video if you wanna see how bad it was (it somehow got worse than this, by the way).
It's been almost 14 years since GW2 came out. You can still play both of them, the first even getting updates again.They are both different games enjoyed for different reasons and the 3rd will do something else again.But sadly we're forever going to be stuck in this shitty loop where people moan about how one game isn't like the other when it's not trying to be.JUST PLAY THE GAME YOU DO LIKE
>>740627794>What has this actually done for WoW and XIV other than make 99% of WoW's content unplayable and make XIV put item level caps on every single piece of content?Kept both games alive for decades. Is it stupid that humans can be so easily trapped into a system that takes you from 10 damage, to 20 damage, to 50 damage? Yes. But it also works.
>>740627794Honestly, I didn't mind horizontal progression as much as I thought I would.What I DID mind though was that 99% of the ingame gear from dungeons looked like total horseshit and they only ever put good stuff on the cash shop. Which sucks when the entire endgame is cosmetic.
>>740627773>once again dragging the goalpostIt shows how deeply invested you are and defensive over the game. My statement was in reply to yours about one game "outliving" another. Meanwhile you're obsessed with trying to win, on something entirely unrelated, via a strawman. Your concession was already accepted. No more (You)s.
>>740627794Vertical progression is better than horizontal progression. RPGs with horizontal progression just flat out don't work and don't get players even short term
>>740627906that would be a lot more persuasive if you weren't posting it in a thread about TWO DIRECT COUNTEREXAMPLES
>>740627496Yes, GW2 writing took a massive nosedive during "End of Dragons" Expansion, which was like the 3rd expansion (they have like 6 expansions by now, of which like 3 have been drip fed early access shit, which is frankly unforgivable for a paid expansion)Even before then, a lot of the "extra" story that they released between expansions was getting very obnoxious with the following:>forced dev OC:s >original cast is slowly ruined and some get retconned to have family and child that was literally never mentioned>original cast is slowly and decisively cut off from story aside for one of them, while the new dev favorites take their places>aside from like 3 good villains, everyone else has been total shit>one of the dev OC:s is a fucking cripple asura know-it-all who is indispensable to tthe story>two of the dev OC are lesbians and the 3rd, worst written expansion ends with them getting married or somethingI still liked GW2 for it's combat and world, but holy shit, 90% of post launch story/writing just needs to be deleted
>>74062573898% of MMOs have the same exact raidnigger gear progression autism that you want so badly. Play those and fuck off, nobody that is actually mentally sane wants that in GW3.
>>740626391put me in the screencap
>>740627973Still not that anon, sorry homoyou're a big man, you won internet points on your own arbitrage, congratsyou're still wrong and GW2 is still objectively the worse game of the two by a country mile
>>740625484Will GW3 even be an MMO? Or will it be a 4 man game like Warframe or Monster Hunter?
>>740628013>counter examples There are many examples of many things I have no idea what you're even trying to say.
>>740627486Gw1 is f2p via mobile
>>740628207GW2 writing fell off a cliff in IBS, EoD just continued the downward trend.
>>740625484>horizontal """"progression"""">not going to actually be an mmo>ugly designunfortunately, it won't save anything but my wallet.
>>740625484will it till be a gay faggot tranny game or will we finally get guild wars 1-2
>>740627907It's much better now. Just wiki for the pieces you want. I only use a few cashshop items here and there for shit they're too jewish to give out for free, like glasses.
>>740628445You're getting a 3rd game. It won't be a repeat of 1 or 2. We don't know how it will be written. Ask again in 16 months.
>>740627906Except neither WoW nor XIV take you from 10 damage, to 20 damage, to 50 damage, it takes you from "I killed this mob with 100 health in 10 seconds" to "I killed this mob with 200 health in 10 seconds" to "I killed this mob with 500 health in 10 seconds".You haven't gotten one ounce stronger in WoW since TBC ended, and not once in the entire span of XIV's life.In both games you are an unstoppable god in fresh level cap greens, able to kill as many mobs as you can physically aggro at once. There is genuinely no sense of character progression in either of them. You get purples so you can fight mobs with exactly as much increased HP as your fancy new sword gave you in increased damage.It is absolutely not, in any fucking way, worth the downsides.
>>740628207I'll never forgive them for what they did to Eir. Not only did they kill her off, she got BLACKED and her perm-haired mongrel son is a major character.
>>740625484Pic unrelated
>>740625484if it's as different to gw1 and 2 as 2 is different to 1 it has a chance at being interesting albeit slim
Reminder they're giving out free crap for AFKing twitch streams
>>740628570God you are stupid.
People ITT horribly misunderstanding how horizontal progression works in gw2. You max out gear score with just ascended gear. Then you're grinding for progression via non stat unlocks. Mounts, glider, fishing, things that let you access new areas/content/unlocks, and convenience. Rather than grinding gear people are constantly grinding for money to get cosmetics/legendaries as well as do collections. Do I interact with any of these? Not really. I gamble my gold and buy legendaries with it. Is it a bad system? Absolutely not. It's very well done.
I like how Rox(?) is the only nu member of the cast nobody hates because she's just kinda there and inoffensive. Like I can't even remember her name and I'm just winging it, but I never disliked her with the sheer vitriol I have for the rest of the faggots they brought in to replace the main cast.
>>740625738This is why GW will never be taken seriously. It's MMO flavoring for people that don't want RPGs and treat the staples of it as some hindrance to overcome rather than the base game. People like that will always be better served in genres designed for that audience. GW will always be uniquely shitty in that respect that it's like people who don't want to play RPGs having one casual foot in the door because they want a pvp game with tourist 'flavoring'. Actual RPG players roll their eyes at that stupid 'horizontal progression' meme. Which isn't even a thing it's a semantic trap meant to make you think you're playing an RPG and progressing when you aren't. All progression is vertical that's why it's called progression.
>>740628759You can't even make your bed in the morning.
>>740628673legendary grinding is absolutely a bad system because they have all these interesting gameplay challenges and tasks to accomplish in order to unlock the privilege of crafting legendaries and they STILL gate every legendary behind massive, mindless gold grinds. And it's the same gold grind for every legendary (or near enough). It's just tedium disguised as progression.
>>740628692That bitch stole YOUR credit in killing teakettle. She told Rytlock this in front of you. Note she spend all her time ded during this event
>>740628673They're not misunderstanding Horizontal Progression, they're just WoW cargo cultists who don't play anything else."Vertical progression is good because WoW does it" is the end of the thought. Drawing mental conclusions between "Man I sure miss Ulduar, that raid was great" and why vertical progression is bad is genuinely too difficult for them.
>>740628759You are retarded. Vertical vs horizontal progression goes back to tabletop RPGs.
>>740628759what's the level cap in DnD?
>>740625484If it's not GW1 2.0 I'm not interested.
>>740628874Ah damn I guess I missed that they gave a reason to hate her. God damn they can't even not fuck up the one not fuckupable character.
>>740628759High IQ post, thank you for your time.
>I like vertical>I like horizontal If you get mad at one or both of these you should seek therapy help. People like different things.
>>740628951Depends on the edition. Sometimes it's 11, sometimes it's 20, sometimes it's 30, sometimes it doesn't have one.
>>740625738This is who anet panders to, retards to stupid to enjoy GW1.
>>740627849pre searing gwen SEXOOO OOOUUHH
>>740628759You're a retard.Horizontal progression isn't some magic buzzword. It's incredibly easy to grasp.In an MMORPG, you hit max level, and have ONE set of equipment that enables ONE specific build. You acquire more sets of max level equipment, that enables even more builds and strategies. You then have a whole wardrobe of equipment to mix and match and make a couple to dozens of builds for a single character/class. It's already been done.
>>740628759>don't want RPGsYour MMO fetish came from DnD which overwhelmingly relies on horizontal progression through characters, stories and events.
>>740628951>what's the level cap in DnDits 20
>>740629068its infinite
>>740629006Dofus does both, but end-game is fundamentally horizontal of course, as you approach the power ceiling.
>>740629068>>740628951Anyone who actually plays DnD knows leveling isn't the point and no one sits down saying "I can't wait to hit 20" which lore wise makes you a God. The majority do not even want to go above 8-12 because you start reaching insane levels of power that break every situation and interaction.
>>740628645every game gives out this retarded free crap for "watching" on Twitch. i assume Amazon pays for it to drive fake traffic to their site so they can pretend it's popular.
>>740625484MMO genre can't be saved
>>740629062D&D doesn't rely on horizontal progression, what the fuck are you talking about.
>>740625484not with that aesthetic lol
>>740629150so what you're saying is RPG leveling arbitrage is actually bullshit and the other anon is retarded
>>740629150>Anyone who actually plays DnDso like, nobody? lmaoDnD was replaced by video games 30 years ago, only fags played it after that
>>740629150This is why MMOs are fundamentally fucked. You don't do shit in D&D to level up, you do shit in D&D to do shit and then you level up as a byproduct, exactly how it should be. It's also how normal video game RPGs are designed, a game needing you to grind levels will get complaints about shit design. Everquest totally fucked that design up and too many games after it followed the leader.
>>740629148>Dofus does bothThe irony is all MMOs do both. GW, FF, WoW, hell even games like Foxhole. These idiots are arguing over nothing.
>>740628585Yep, that's precisely what I meant with original cast being ruined.>Logan gets turned in to a cuck beta bitch boy who's insecure and useless>Caithe is just a shitty character, period, lesbian salad with no intellectual input or shining moments>Zojja is turned in to a bitchy useless whiner, who later is brought back just to make her a special snowflake>Rytlock is turned in to a deadbeat dad and an overall retarded beefbrain who never achieves anything aside from flexing his revenant senses or stolen valor sword>Eir is unceremoniously oneshot by a midboss level enemy, and then promptly revealed to have a mutt son who literally everyone hates, who not only behaves like a runt but also turns in to an insufferable edgelord AND a chosen one>Trahearne gets unceremoniously killed as a "willing sacrifice" for victory>Fan favorite human god Balthazar gets turned in to a brainless edgy tyrant who just harms his faithful the most>Jormag, referred as he, is turned in to a granny dragon because we need women inclusion!>Kralkatorrik, the eldest of the original dragons, is turned in to a mad suicidal retard
>>740629168You've never played DnD and it shows.
>>740629246Not part of your little argument, but DnD is quite literally the most popular its ever been.
all fucking charr must fucking hangascalon will not be forgotten
>>740629297Foxhole isn't an RPG you troll.And "does both", is wrong. WoW may have more equipment but that's not essential to the game as your progression resets every season.
>>740629246DnD is more popular than any MMO on earth. It has 50 million concurrent players at a conservative minimum.
I heard rumors that GW3 will be taking place in the past. God I fucking hope so I fucking hate the stupid salad niggers so much.
>>740629289>You don't do shit in D&D to level up, you do shit in D&D to do shit and then you level up as a byproduct, exactly how it should beNow if only there were an MMO being discussed in this exact thread that was designed around this exact concept.
>>740625484I love how the interview basically confirmed its gonna be more like guild wars 1 with Coop RPG gameplay and skill collecting instead of "big blob of retards ammasses on a boss and auto attacks for a few minutes"
>>740629231"Levels" in DnD represent more of a power scaling of you/others in the universe. You can get more powerful, or you could change empires and worlds while being level 1. Video games bastardized it in a cheap trick to harvest dopamine by giving you a flashy light and bing bing wahoo points. Its not used to its full potential in video games.
>>740629390Point out where I said RPG. Foxhole is an MMO. >And "does both", is wrong. WoW may have more equipment but that's not essential to the game as your progression resets every season.Most people in WoW are cosmetic/mount collectors. The fact you don't enjoy/want this is irrelevant.
>>740625661fpbp. Incompetent millennial dev teams have ruined MMOs
>>740629468I simply do not believe them
>>740629468>Coop RPG gameplayThank god because the MMO part of MMORPG is retarded and not fun anymore.
>>740629468It's funny that the amalgamated nightmare game that all the GW3 doomsissies are making up in their head is just Phantasy Star Online 2.
>>740629373Cry harder. You lost.
>>740629468God forbid an MMO is "massive" multiplayerI also hate the laggy pile of ability spam that most megaevents turn in to, but to advocate against them is the same as saying you don't want an MMO
>>740629550>Black character>Ugly ass mount I am not interested. Its not that he's black, it's that they picked him because they think its a good idea which it isn't and therefore the game is filled with bad ideas.
>>740625484i really want to belive you, anon.but i can't because guild wars 2 killed guild wars in vain.
>>740629335You're a 5E babby. D&D is infamous for vertical scaling fucking shit up.
>>740629468>believing COLIN
>>740629645You have never played DnD and it shows.
>>740629645>D&D is infamous for vertical scaling fucking shit up.No it isn't because any good DM would prevent that from happening. Anon you clearly do not play just stop.
>>740629425Guild Wars 1 isn't really a MMO and that doesn't apply to 2 at all, I was absolutely doing things to gain XP and not because I wanted to do them.
>>740625484>UE5God I'm so sick of this souless slop. Give me an updated guild wars 1 engine
>>740629645anon...
>>740629687Yes it is. You don't have a single clue what the fuck you're talking about.
>>740628759I once thought the same but then I started grinding legendaries in gw2 and found it to be a lot more satisfying of a grind than the typical mmo gear grind
I like that GW2 has a lot of variety of little rat fellas.Its got molemen, ratmen, weird fucking freak jimmy neutron lookin guys
>>740629694Even in gw2 you level up just by doing whatever. If you played in a way that you were gaining xp doing things you didn't want to do then that means there was nothing in the game you wanted to doWhich is fine because gw2 is dogshit
>>740629753I am not going to argue with someone who has never played the game a day in their life. There are no scaling issues. Any DM can change anything they want.
>>740629694>I was absolutely doing things to gain XP and not because I wanted to do themThen you should have gone and done literally any other thing, because literally every thing in game gives you XP. Good job outing yourself, I guess.
>>740625484So long as its not like GW2 it should be a good start
>>740629645>Be me>Be DM>Last engagement they had it too easy>Tweak stats/numbers of enemies>Players have perfectly balanced experience in next engagement Are you retarded? Do you even know what DND is?
>>740629608I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, but I'd like to add a bunch of actually good reasons to not have any hopes for it:>retarded alien creatures in the trailer, none of which are seen in GW2>ZERO gameplay or environment variety shown>ZERO combat, classes or enemies shown>from steam page: "You will join the VAELWARDENS, who are literally hippie environmentalists that prioritize protecting nature, rather than joining some cool warmongering, conquering or adventuring guild>nothing magical shown aside from dumb gacha wallrunning
>>740629645Anon thinks you actually have to use the rulebooks lmao
>>740629815'Rule zero therefore there is no problem with the game' was a solved """argument""" over 2 fucking decades ago. You don't know what you're talking about. E6, a set of house rules to cap the game's level at 6, exists SPECIFCALLY BECAUSE OF 3.5'S VERTICAL SCALING BEING BATSHIT INSANE. The epic level handbook had to *curb bonus inflation* by capping BAB and saves to 1/2 level progression and it STILL explodes.
>>740629657>>740629687>>740629721>>740629870/v/ posters branching out from talking about videogames they haven't played to talking about pen and paper games they haven't played, I see.
>>740629870>he thinks stat tweaks can fix the kind of balance issues that exist
>>740629897I am not interested in discussing your imaginary houserules.
>>740629974As I said you've never played and I will not argue with you. You do not know what you're talking about.
>>740625484i put 2500+ hours into vanilla GW2 before it got any expansions and i have zero interest in GW3
>>740630037>>740630134>>740630051>>740629974Trying to save face because you got called out on your bluff I see
>>740630151I've been playing D&D since before you were born. You're a 5E babby who doesn't know what D&D looked like before it.
>>740625484> its wokein the trash it goes
I like GW2 but the writing isn't very good and the voice acting is god awful.
>>740630051>he thinks minor or major changes to the way a game works has no impact That is quite literally the point of having and being a DM. Damn you sound like an insufferable loser no wonder no one plays with you lol.
>>740630203If that was true, which it isn't, you wouldn't be trying to hard to save face after being called out on the fact you clearly do not know how DnD works. I accept your shitposting as your concession.
>>740629870Yeah the problem with DnD is famously bosses not having enough HP, and not the Wizard hitting level 9 and gaining access to 200+ RAW infinite damage logical spell loops.
>>740630203I've played TT before even Dungeons and Dragons was a game and good DMs have never had balancing issues you do not play TT.
>>740630229haha, thats our guild wars
>>740630237There is no amount of stats that can fix 'I set your speed to 5 ft a round' or 'I surround you in an unbreakable prison no save'
>>740629393>>740629371Yes it's most popular it's ever been because it was a niche nerdy thing and has now been casualized and is played by normalfags.But even so, here's sales for 5e, the best selling DnD edition. Just 1.5m. Fucking Flyff had more players than that...
>>740630293And then I change the resistances/qualities of the dragon so the Wizard can't do that, or impose some other limitations through environmental factors.
>>740630319The DM can do anything. I suspect you have not played or have not played with a good DM before.
>>740630378Bookscan is not a valid source for anything but a specific subset of vendors because book stores have not been the lion's share of sales since 2008.
>>740630378>buying their over priced books Are you retarded
>>740630424I'm discussing the game, not your imaginary houserules. Fuck off. Rule zero is not an argument.
>>740625484>only 3 racesI really hope I'm wrong
>>740630509Just say you've never played next time lmao
>>740630385>resistance to force damageGood luck with that one buddy.
>>740630509>anon thinks people in TT play rules 1:1Anon...
>>740630385Okay then I'll use RAW infinite damage logical spell loop #2 of 200 that uses a completely different set of rules. And then I'll use the third. And the Fourth.And when you've banned that I'll use Shapechange and put them into a RAW infinite grapple loop.But just keep pretending that you play DnD and know what you're talking about I guess.
>>740630547Do me a favor and look up 'Oberoni fallacy' and the date it was first postedJuly 23, 2002
>>740630578Good thing I never said that, and in fact quoted the existence of a set of houserules. But when you're discussing the game you discuss the GAME. Not shift the goalposts to houserules that don't exist to defend the game. 'There's no problem because the DM can fix it' isn't an argument for an obvious fucking reason.
>>740630556>>740630625>Simulacrum can't cast Simulacrum>You can't generate more resources than you consume >No loops Either 1. You have never played DnD or 2. You have only ever played with randoms in public places and never got invited back because absolutely no one can stand playing with you long termPick one. You're creating imaginary situations that never happen because when you're actually sitting in a room with people they don't want you to win every encounter by abusing rules.
>>740630632Do me a favor and have a shower, go outside, and find some people to play DnD with. You might actually learn how to be a human.
>>740630706>'There's no problem because the DM can fix it' isn't an argument for an obvious fucking reason.The "argument" is that dnd is unbalanced, which is not true, because the DM can easily rebalance combat. And yes you did say it right here >I'm discussing the game, not your imaginary houserules. Fuck off. Rule zero is not an argument.Hope this helps.
>>740630750Casting Orb of Force with shitloads of metamagic on it is not 'abusing rules'
>Anon is building a house>Buys a 10 feet piece of wood>FUCK THIS PIECE IS TOO LONG I CANT USE IT FOR THIS 9 FEET PIECE OF WORKThis is your brain on not-playing-dnd-for-real
>>740630827>The "argument" is that dnd is unbalanced, which is not true, because the DM can easily rebalance combat.'There's no problem because the DM can fix it' is not an argument.>And yes you did say it right here That does not say what you think it does. You are illiterate.
>>740630829Oh no counterspells! Or have a pack of wolves in your face. I am literally God and I know all your tricks I can do ANYTHING I want.
>>740630907>'There's no problem because the DM can fix it' is not an argument.Yes it is. I accept your concession. >Nuh uhYeah uh, you did. Backtracking won't save you from losing this argument.
>>740630928>Oh no counterspells! You have to ready an action for that.>Or have a pack of wolves in your face.Casting defensively.
this is the gayest shit I ever read
>>740630750"I can litigate every single mechanic problem with DnD" is such a cherryboy PnP virgin thought that every single person here knows you don't actually play.In either case, saying "I can and will litigate every single specific instance of a problem" is just proof that Vertical Progression IS a problem in DnD, the original point.
>>740629881shitty presentations and characters used in marketing material always precede the gameplay issues you listed
>>740630953No, it's not an argument. It's an admission you're wrong because a problem has to exist for you to fix it.
>>740631049>"I can litigate every single mechanic problem with DnD"Is what a good DM does. Its the fundamental first rule of DnD and the whole reason its such a popular game. If you had actually played it instead of just larping as a DnD player you would know that not one thing you've complained about is a reality when you're sitting at a table.
>>740625745Also the fact that you can get permabanned for saying the most tame crap now, even in private guild chat or whispers to friends, so everyone moved to Discord and ingame chat is a ghost town.
>>740629593>make le funny webm upon release of the breakdance emote>charrfags go on to adopt it as a defacto webm for charr supremacy and post it ad nauseamUneasy lies the head that wears the crown.
>>740631060It isn't a problem if the solution is provided in the rules. The fact you're too stupid to figure it out is a you problem.
>>740631049>is just proof that Vertical Progression IS a problem in DnD, the original point.Not once in all my years has a game been damaged by people leveling up. They literally give you the tools to keep it balanced without even thinking about it.
>GW1 is still getting contentnever played it, sell me on it
>>740631113I am straight up telling you you do not have the mechanical chops to fix every single problem with D&D. If you did, you would have sold your ruleset, and you would be a millionaire and the greatest design genius ever seen in the tabletop RPG sphere. You are neither. DMs fix what obviously sticks out if they notice it, spot rule if something seems wrong, or rule after the fact when something goes wrong.
>>740631153it's amazing how a hawk screech makes everything 100 times cooler
>>740631113Okay retard, and how does the need to piecemeal litigate hundreds of broken interactions as a result of Wizards vertically progressing prove that Vertical Progression is not a problem in Dungeons and Dragons?The entire point of this reply chain.If you reply to this post without addressing this or don't reply at all you are tacitly admitting you're wrong. Go ahead.
>>740631276>I am straight up telling you you do not have the mechanical chops to fix every single problem with D&DYou grossly over-state its issues, of which are few and far between. And again you simply do not play so how would you know? Didn't read the rest you're genuinely too stupid to learn.
>>740631314Play it. You'll realise this is just a problem in your own head.
>>740631314>and how does the need to piecemeal litigate hundreds of broken interactions as a result of Wizards vertically progressing prove that Vertical Progression is not a problem in Dungeons and Dragons?I just did, read what I posted. >>740631113
>>740627496Yes. The same expansion also has an androgynous character that uses they/them pronouns and has a magitech prosthetic arm for extra diversity points.
>>740631314>ultimatum because he knows hes losing Getting this mad over a game you don't play is hilarious
>>740625484>purple everywhere>Failguard graphics>diversity up the assNah, I’ll pass
>>740631328Or. Or. You're mechanically incompetent and can't spot bad rules for shit.
no holy trinity = no buy
>>740631459>Or. Or.Why are you stuttering
>>740631459>Didn't even deny itI knew you never played. What a fag you are to get so upset over something you can't even play.
oh yeah I can't wait to press all my buttons at once again and call it gameplay
>>740631459>and can't spot bad rules for shit.If a tree falls in a forest ect ect welcome to the WHOLE point of why TT is so popular retard
>>740631224>Not once in all my years has a game been damaged by people leveling upI believe you.It's really easy to not have something happen in game when you've literally never once played a game.Meanwhile I've played a couple DnD games that went past, say, level 5, at which point the Wizards, Clerics, and Druids gain access to a few couple dozen RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.
If one or two are anything to go by it will be an objectively good gameplay wise but the gayest storyline and aesthetics since gay came to gay town
>>740628207Those aren't the dev OCs. The actual, unironic dev OCs are the NPCs in Bava Nisos that look completely retarded and out of place. Shit like fairy wings and male norns with long pink female hair.
>>740631053Maybe, but you need to add more objective criticisms before mentioning them, so that the devs, journos and normies can't use their usual shitty buzzwords to dismiss you.
>>740631558>Meanwhile I've played a couple DnD games that went past, say, level 5, at which point the Wizards, Clerics, and Druids gain access to a few couple dozen RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.All spells have limits on range, targets, duration, LoS or saving throws. You have not played DnD and its shows.
>>740625661it did. i actually liked guild wars 2 art style. this new shit is just modern slop.
>>740631536There are entire schools of play in the tabletop space that would tell you to fuck off for this because you cannot run a consistent game with your mindset. You are literally losing to decades old arguments because you're too dumb to comprehend logic.
>>740631558>couple dozen RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.Never happened because it cannot.
>>740631582gw2 had shitty gameplay so I doubt it
>>740631558>RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.So you don't actually know the rules lmfao
>>740631679>Share Pain loopOK.
>>740631669>your mindset.Not one TT group follows rules perfectly and its a shared experience you clearly have little to no experience with actually playing
>>740625661there's no fucking BLOOMif there's any game that deserves to have bloom it's guild fucking wars!
>>740631558>Meanwhile I've played a couple DnD games that went past, say, level 5, at which point the Wizards, Clerics, and Druids gain access to a few couple dozen RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.Well you're 100% objectively incorrect and reading the rules wrong or lying. That cannot physically happen.
>>740631602writers are devs too, but the point I was making is that the new writers just shat all over the old characters in order to push their new, more woke and modern characters
>>740625484I have a feeling this will be what sacred 3 was to the sacred series
>>740631558>Meanwhile I've played a couple DnD games that went past, say, level 5, at which point the Wizards, Clerics, and Druids gain access to a few couple dozen RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.I suspect whats happened here is either you or who you played with once or twice was a terrible terrible DM who didn't explain the rules or allowed the rules to be broken because of some bad reading because I can say with absolute certainty this is NOT what is happening in 99.99% of games
>>740631752Once again, you can't read, you're too dumb to comprehend logic. Stop replacing the words I am typing with imaginary words in your head so you can pretend you won an internet argument.
>>740629304I hate what they did to Rytlock the most. He went from a badass idgaf character that rose to military general by killing all of his superior officers in single combat, to a retard that constantly marvel quips and 80% of his dialogue in Icebrood Saga was "RYLAND!"
>>740631847Anon you haven't used logic or an argument once. Your claim is firstly DnD has vertical progression which is true, but its highly limited by both the game rules and the DMs discretion. Secondly you claim it breaks the game of which your only example is one time you played and a bad DM misread the rules and allowed a bad situation to happen which shouldn't have and most people wouldn't have let happen to begin with. Im sorry you had a bad time. But this is entirely a you problem. Something you can get over by having a shower, making your bed, making some friends and playing DnD with a better DM. No one, not one soul on earth, agrees with you that DnD has a vertical progression problem and DnD has always had horizontal progression as its main focus.
>>740631558>Wizards, Clerics, and Druids gain access to a few couple dozen RAW ways to do arbitrary amounts of damage to arbitrary amounts of targets in an arbitrary range.Loops are not allowed by the rules.
>>740629601>God forbid an MMO is "massive" multiplayerIt doesn't matter. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, most modern MMO players don't interact with anyone else and just silently solo the whole game. Why bother making a "massive muliplayer" game if everyone you run into may as well be bots?
>>740629304>>Trahearne gets unceremoniously killed as a "willing sacrifice" for victorydeserved
>>740632052>>740629601>Go play one of these massive multiplayer games>Its only EVE or Foxhole>Both suckTurns out lots of humans on screen at once is a fun gimmick once and a bad experience the next 10,000 times.
>>740625484Concord 4.3
>>740625484>GW1 and 2 have immaculate art direction, literally some of the best in western RPGs.>hey what if we made it into unreal shit with plasticy materials and ugly tonemapping because the devs don't know how to actually use the engine properly.
>>740631954Your inability to read my posts does not make my posts bullshit. The problem is that YOU do not understand what the ruleset is for and are using 'the DM can make arbitrary changes' as an absolute defense against anything.Why would I pay for rules I have to fix myself?
>>740632147>Your inability to read my posts does not make my posts bullshit.I read them, you are wrong. I just addressed why. Have your last reply knowing you were wrong.
>>740632052>>740632101It's only a bad idea for world bosses, but I for one cannot imagine an MMO where you don't run in to players everywhere you go.That is the whole point of MMO:s, the choice to interract with players if you want to - it makes you feel like a part of the world and just like real life, you don't talk to everyone you see
>>740629608>game starts in Orr>literally the african/arab setting of the game>why would he be black??You guys have shit for brains and it shows
>>740632182You did not. You read an imaginary version of my posts where I was wrong.
>>740631643>>740631679>>740631710>>740631786>>740631842>>740632001The only reason I don't think these are AI posts is because I don't think you could actually massage an LLM into saying "Dungeons and Dragons is a game famous for its lack of Wizards, Clerics, and Druids having dozens/hundreds of no-save instant kill infinite damage spell interactions."You guys should just go play Dungeons and Dragons. Together maybe, so you can all enjoy it for the first time as a group.
>>740625484Is that the new Concord?
>>740632220Elona is the African/Arab land, Orr is just generic fantasy kingdom from what we know
>>740629425Dungeons and Dragons Online already exists though.
>>740632052true benefit of an mmo is the dynamic encounters by running into real people out in the world
>>740626709There haven't been any cute chicks shown at all in the trailer. It's a faux pas at anet nowadays to act like women should be a stand-out element on screen.
>>740632237Nah, it's a garden variety fanboy retard who can't admit fault in something he likes. You saw people like this all over the Wizards forums during the 3.0 and 3.5 days, and those were never scraped because they were offline by the time LLMs were relevant.
>>740632237You are butthurt and have never played DnD
>>740632314>>740632237Samefag
>>740632220Elona was the land of the niggers, Orr was the land of the Persians, and anet best not fuck that up
>>740632279The Reincarnation system needs to be excluded from the Vertical/Horizontal progression discussion because it will actually make WoW/XIV players' brains leak out of their ears.
>>740632237>makes false statement>surprised he gets called out on it Are you retarded?
They'll probably ruin the classes. I still hate the elite spec system.
>>740632332I've played a lot more D&D than you have. DMs can make wrong calls or be mistaken about something, stupid
From the description on Steam it seems to be more of a hybrid between 1 and 2 which sounds good to me.
>>740632220That isn't the point.The point is that if you don't view humans as equal you're already illogical. If you're illogical, you can't make good video games (you might luck into it through idiocy though).They're selling GW3 by using a black male main character for their announcement trailer. That is illogical given the majority of their players are going to be white men. Its a purposeful choice to spite them, meaning they're illogical, meaning the games design will be illogical, meaning the game won't be fun.
>>740632268>Orr is just generic fantasy kingdomnigga the most prominent Orrian (the fucking antagonist of gw1 prolhecies) is a Vizier dressed in scarab patterns. Orr is Egypt. It's also geographically part of Elona
>>740632390the spec system definitely aint coming back. they will probably ditch skills being tied to weapons too.
>>740631558Vertical progression literally is what dethroned Halo. When people realized they could level up in a FPS (COD:MW) and get attachments for guns that were straight upgrades they got hooked. Halo had no progression. Vertical progression has been proven by time itself to be superior in every single way to horizontal which is why so many successful games have it and why so many RPGs chase that feature. I don't understand how you don't understand this basic reality. I can give you thousands of case examples in gaming where vertical progression improved a game and attracted players. Horizontal progression does no such thing and is considered niche in itself.
>>740632645no the fuck it isn't, it's specifically a separate kingdom from Elona.
>>740627220Is that Tansarii Point Station? Man I miss this game. I played pre-NGE/pre-CU.I could never play it again, I'm too avoidant now, but when I was young and naive I had a blast just meeting people and doing stuff in that game.
>>740632698NTA but both are good. WoW players froth over horizontal. Cosmetics hunting, mounts, achievements are a huge deal. Its also a huge cash cow, what do you think cash shops are?
played gw1 for the first time recently and it was fun but somehow the writing was even worse than gw2Why did anet think that Shiro fucking Tagachi was a character worthy of wanking with the revenant class?
>>740632748are you stupid? There is a fucking land bridge to Elona.
>>740632645Its a mix of egypt/persia, much like cantha was an amalgamate of asian cultures. I can stomach some niggardry in Orr but they already got a lot of it with Elona and the Crystal Desert. In current year im ready for some ARYAN representation
>>740631558While you're technically right, it's pretty obvious you've just heard about D&D and never been in a legitimate, long-term game.
>>740627747>GW2 combat suckedContrarianism
>>740633008Dark Souls is better and that's saying a lot
Will the cat people be playable in this one or just bears ?
>>740632332Here, I'll even give you a lowball.How do you balance the following spells, and I mean BALANCE, not fuck with them arbitrarily on the spot when they come up:Alter SelfPolymorphShapechangeSolid FogGreaseBlack TentaclesSleet StormRay of StupidityBlasphemy (and the other alignment variants)you can't because you don't know what's wrong with them
You guys realize this is going to kill GW2 right?
>>740633075good
>>740629148yeah dofus never increasing its level cap worked wonders for it.the fact that there wasn't challenges and gear up until the level cap for a long time meant they could just keep adding more stuffand then when they did reach it they went horizontaleven when the hardest stuff was lower level you can still find horizontal progression there where you can do fights that give different types of gear that require gear on the level they are at to do reasonablyits always funny when you play with someone newer and they suggest doing some dungeon that is their level but was an end game dungeon at some point and required gear at its level to be reasonable to do and you get to see them get their shit kicked in
>>740633073You have never played DnD and its shows.
>>740633060so far only bears are pretty much confirmed
>>740633073>Magic Jar not mentionedThis nigga has NEVER gotten past level 2 in a D&D game.
>>740633073God its so obvious you've never played and are just parroting chatgpt.
>>740632658>they will probably ditch skills being tied to weapons tooThank god, what the fuck were they thinking?!
>>740632925Elona's all the way down to the south, there's a whole blighted wasteland between Elona and Orr
i wonder if they will make wvw againits the only reason i played 2 for 6000 hours
>>740628570You haven't played either game or you're baiting. In WoW you absolutely go from "i can take on one of these guys at a time, need to be careful with my positioning so i don't add" to "i can pull half this zone and live".
>>740633248>what the fuck were they thinking?!>make the best build system in any rpg to date>the sequel should force absolute class homogenisation I'll tell you what they were thinking. Nothing.
>>740633075It's not? GW2 has been seeing active support while GW3 has been in development. Its safe to presume GW3 has been in development ever since Collins rejoined Arenanet back in 2021, but even if we were to play pretend and say that GW3 has only been in development since April 2024 when NCsoft leaked it, over the same period of time that GW3 has been in development from then to right now you got 2 GW2 expacs, and a remaster of GW1. Literally rub your brain neurons together and actually think it through next time.
I doubt it’s going to be a classic mmorpg. It sounds more like one of those gacha games but without gacha
>>740633279Damn son, I forgot that north Africa is a different continent from sub-saharan Africa because there is a wasteland in between. Your logic is really good
>>740633114Why can't you answer my question?>>740633245Nope, purely from memory of problem spells.
>>740633073I had a player who kept trying to use shapechange to use other monster stat blocks. We just agreed he could copy anything if given enough time but typically in combat he wouldn't have that so he could only copy some parts of the stat block. You know I did that thing which all good DMs do, I balanced the game around the players to make it fun. The rest of what you're trying to imply is action economy. Fixed by more/less/different enemies. Not a real issue.
>>740633248its like a cute roleplay thing but its insanely restricting for no good reason
>>740633394My longshot insane-o prediction? It's going to be a seasonal rpg like Diablo IV.
GW2trannies lost
>>740633073If a player is doing the same thing over and over you simply change the rules or introduce different situations where they can't do it. It is genuinely not hard for anyone with a brain which is why I suspect you're struggling here and spent an hour of your life arguing over a game you don't play lol.
>>740625484Thank you, EQL!oh... you meant Guildguard???
>>740633142Magic Jar is cool and all but it's basically Polymorph with a lot more limiters and HP attached.
>>740633509>he thinks GW3 isn't going to be gigawokelol
>>740633548HOLY FUUUUUUUUUUUCK you have not played D&D, or you've only played 5e, if you REALLY think that.
>>740633394gacha basically aped mmo's in the first placeeverythings about dailies and raids no matter what game youre playing
>>740625484>Guild Wars 3Wasn't Guild Wars 2 absolute dogshit though?
>>740633073>Alter Self>Polymorph>ShapechangeBruh the fact you struggle with these says a lot about how bad you are at dnd
>>740633398>bro, Iran is totally in Africa, there's a land bridge connecting them!
>>740625484Guild Wars 3 is being made by the same people who made Guild Wars 2 and that's unacceptable to me
>>740633416No if I was talking about action economy I'd have brought up Celerity or Planar Shepherds.
>>740633602Anon this guy >>740633073 has never played DnD. Hes a tourist pretending to play.
>>740633572I hope this time the player character at least won't be the Ashbringer, uh, Warrior of Light, no-no the... Commander? I'm so tired of being the deus ex machina solution to every problem. Let me just be a dude with an axe please
>>740633642>Celerity or Planar Shepherds.If you think these are somehow problematic to deal with as a DM I suspect you're just bad at being one
>>740632698>Vertical progression has proven itself as superior because this game that sold 16m copies kind of has it if you squint a bit did slightly better than this game that sold 15.4m copies.Okay. So why did Destiny 2, a game with explicit Vertical Progression sell fewer copies than Halo 3.Why did Call of Duty: Black Ops 5, a game with much stronger Vertical Progression than CoD4:MW, sell less than half as many copies?Why did those "thousands of case examples in gaming where vertical progression improved a game and attracted players" not make them sell better than Call of Duty, games with only a very basic level of vertical prog? If Vertical Progression is why CoD4+ does well why wouldn't that be the case?
>>740633642>bro this spell that is literally god mode is broken!No. Shit.
>>740633602You put yourself in a jar and you get to body switch with people. Gives you their physical stats and extraordinary abilities (with limits) plus the body's HP.
>>740626996I couldn't make it through the cantha expansion and had to stop playing. It was just a torrential flood of LGBT that never stopped. The new npcs were introducing themselves with their sexualities and pronouns ("im your friendly neighborhood pansexual engineer!") The quests were asking me to go to tea parties with the Friends Detective Agency instead of fighting dragons or zombies or some shit. It was never high art or cinema but Idk what happened - it became literally the gayest and most feminine game ever. Unplayable by anyone with healthy levels of testosterone.
>>740633625Ok what continent is Orr on then?
>>740633692Yeah, giving your entire party 10 extra turns per turn isn't problematic in any way.
>>740633642>Are we going god mode this run? >Nah, its not fun, lets keep it more grounded >Copy that And then we played and never had an issue with Planar because we're not fucking retards like you
>>740633248They were unironically thinking "we dont want to have to bother with balancing builds anymore"
>>740633720You're showing your ignorance to D&D codzilla autism if you think you just use Magic Jar as written and don't understand what magic items, feats, and decisions make it completely break the game way beyond Polymorph or Grease.
>>740625745Ironic that gamingy on a device meant for communication bred the most anti social player base
>>740633785Celerity stuns. I presume you mean PS which I will just copy what others said no shit god-like spells are god like. Don't use them if you don't want to play as a god.
>>740633742its own archipelago
>>740633861Celerity's daze is avoidable.
>>740633714Not that anon but these reductionist arguments are beyond stupid. Do you want a list of vertical or horizontal progression games? Because both exist in spades. Both exist WITHIN the same games in spades.
>>740633625the middle east is partially part of africa yeah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East. Not Iran in particular, as the arabian peninsula is part of the asian tectonic plate, but that is needless geographic pedantry. Also the landbridge is broken by the suez canal.
>>740632751>when I was young and naive I had a blast just meeting people and doing stuff in that game.you honestly should pick it up again, it's still a great social mmo which has strippers
>>740633609It had its moments so I wouldn't say it was dogshit, it was legitimately fun during the first couple years, but then they brought in new writers, started killing off fan favorite characters just to push their godawful Super Special Band of Pro-Queer Misfits team.
>>740633847I thought Magic Jar was a Wizard spell. Does a domain get it? With Clerics I mostly pay attention to the bullshit that is Consumptive Field + blasphemy and regular CoDzilla shit.
>>740633917>Celerity's daze is avoidable.If the DM allows it sure. Or they don't which would be the rulebook accurate interpretation.
Guild Wars 2 is their cash cow and this is going to split off a large chunk of the playerbase, why are they doing this?
>>740632794anet never gives you what you want with the classes. its always some dumb subversion>uhhh what if warrior spammed boons too like everyone else??holy shit why
>>740633891archipelagos are island(s). Orr is, at best a peninsula as it is connected to a landmass. You can maybe argue subcontinent due to size and geographic borders, but there is no doubt what continents it is or isn't attached to.
>>740633073>How do you balance the following spells, and I mean BALANCE, not fuck with them arbitrarily on the spot when they come up:What a dumb argument. DnD has a lot of issues but balance is never one, anything players can do, NPCs can do. If you let players wipe the galaxy out its because you let them do that.
>>740634131Theres a reason theyre divorcing charrfags from gw3, they'll be the ones keeping gw2 afloat.
>>740634051>I thought Magic Jar was a Wizard spell.Brother if you can't wrap your head around the idea of a scroll, you can't talk about D&D class balance.
>>740633341In Vanilla or TBC maybe (you know, the two games listed in that post you replied to).There is no "I can take on one of these guys at a time" in anything post Wrath. You are pulling as many as you can keep from leashing and killing them all effortlessly in greens.I've played that shit for 20 years, don't sit here and pretend there's some hidden mythical open world content in nu-WoW where raid gear is the difference between living and dying, and not living with 80% HP and living with 100% HP.
>>740633714Now that is a trash argument, while horizontal progression games like GW2 or ESO have passionate audiences and solid reputations, the commercial ceiling consistently belongs to the games where the gear treadmill never stops. In almost all cases, Vertical progression is more successful than horizontal. The numbers speak for themselves. You cannot find me an example of a horizontal progression system being more successful than a veritical progression system. It's that simple, the math doesn't math when looking into your preference.
>>740634213Scrolls have the minimum DC possible to cast them.
>>740625661This. I've never seen more redflags in a trailer. I'll stick to FFXIV Evercold.
>>740634194Arms races are still unbalanced, anon. Start flinging Solid Fog at the party every encounter and everyone who's not a caster will very quickly become irrelevant.
>>740634282We'll have felt out Evercold through 8.15 and possibly 8.2 before we get to chew on GW3 anyway.I really don't trust ArenaNet. I'd rather be MMOless than give them my time and money.
Does gw2 ever get better or are the later expansions also just run around and fill the meter for npcs that you have little to no context for as well?
>>740634341>Arms races are still unbalanced, anon.What a dumb argument. I can make any encounter balanced and fun because I know exactly what they can and can't do. I have no limits.
>>740634456I don't believe you.
>>740634412nah the core gameplay loop stays that way but the environment is a lot more interesting in the expansions. the main quest does unfortunately stay shit
>>740627035>be mmo player>skip story in every mmo since the beginning of time>there's 1 quest in gw2 that says "beat up the bigot">suddenly every mmo player cares so deeply about mmo stories and beating up the bigot RUINED gw2's story that everyone surely paid attention to before that happened
>>740633985Bro the reductionist argument is saying "Call of Duty 4 dethroned Halo because it had Vertical Progression."Yeah, Call of Fucking Dudy sold super well because you can unlock red-dot sights. And because of that we can extrapolate what a 15-year life cycle MMORPG's leveling and stat systems should be.
>>740634487You lack creativity.
>>740634341>Arms races are still unbalancedThe DM isn't in an arms race. His only concern is making it fun. I do not think you've ever played DnD or if you have it was a one shot.
>>740634527Creativity doesn't solve the problem I gave you.
>>740634490>environment is a lot more interesting in the expansionsI keep hearing this but I'm nearly done with the original base game and I haven't found the zones any more interesting than any other mmo I've played, disappointing to here the core never changes though the game world feels super dead to me since there's so little interaction with it it's just mindlessly slaughtering shit over and over
>>740634593I know you think that.
>>740634341>argueing about balance in a game where rule 0 is at the core of the experiencelol. lmao even
>>740634593>Creativity doesn't solveGo post on /tg/ 'creativity can't solve a problem in a dnd game' and see what happens
>>740625484>console releaselol
>>740633008its contrarian to think that shit was good lmfao fucking idiot
>>740634653verticality and mounts do a lot of heavy lifting in the expansions to make the areas interesting. base game was designed to be traversed on foot which is incredibly ass due to the size of maps
>>740634670No, really. Go ahead, 'creativity' your way out of dropping the thing that hard blocks ranged attacks and limits your movement to 5 ft a round on the party when half of the party needs to either move to enemies or shoot them with ranged attacks.
>>740625484That's not Aion 2
>>740634821Nigger the core of dnd is that the DM has creative freedom. Yes he can fuck you up, but if he does that the solution is getting a DM that doesn't waste everyone's time. Dnd is half improv theater and if you are telling me you can't work creatively in that setting stick to video games
>>740634131>Why are they making a sequel to their 14 year old MMO that grows ever longer in the toothTo make money? To stay in business? To please the less petulant fans of Guild Wars?Yes, it's going to split off a large chunk of the playerbase. That is the intention of a sequel. When Halo 3 came out the intention was for it to consume a large chunk of the Halo 2 multiplayer scene.
>>740634821>Ok guys you made your characters? >Yeah all done>Ok, so you come across a traveler he Wishes you all dead>Uh>Alright im gonna go shitpost on /v/ for hours about how unbalanced DnD is peace out I honestly do feel a bit bad for you. It must be shit to be that lonely all the time.
>>740634821Dispel? Teleportation? Flight? Walk away? I don't HAVE to engage with you I can just fuck off and do my own thing.
>>740634821It is SO obvious you do not play DnD
>>740635012Right? This dude needs a therapist instead of worrying about balancing DnD lol.
just started GW2 and it's pretty fun. i'll probably check out GW3 if my computer can run it.
>>740634821>Go ahead, 'creativity' your way outI say "I look around". The DM will probably let me roll perception and a solution just magically appears. It's so fucking obvious you don't play dnd
>>740634821My character is a burd so I flap off also GW3 needs flying burd characters
>>740635053>caster thing, caster thing, caster thing (also flight without good or better maneuverability you instantly fall), 5 ft movement capYes, thank you for accidentally admitting I was right.
>>740635301>The fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet.
>>740635407Because as everyone knows DnD is a game about one player and one DM in a room masturbating over who can lose the game faster. You're a dumb motherfucker.
>>740635465>I'm a shitty DMis not valid criticism of the game
>>740634821You do realise Solid Fog applies to other creatures, right? You're not some sort of dumb retard who thought he had a point here, right? I hope this is a fucking troll.
>>740635543That wasn't a rule pulled out of my ass it's how the spell functions.
>>740635607And? You're saying this thing happens and its unbalanced but can't explain how.
>>740631751Share pain doesn't loop
>>740629601I couldn't care less about a mass of NPCs that never talks in chat and plays it like a singleplayer game
>>740626714>fucked GW1 over.how? what are you talking about?
>>740632287running into bots*
>>740633572I want GW2fag to get ignored like they did with GW1
>>740628673None of those things are progression. Progression is your character getting stronger.
>>740635301that's not creativity, that's demanding the DM give you an out to trap he set up
>>740635607you realize the DM is in charge of making the game compelling right? You can just put a lich into each room too. Have you ever played this game?
>>740635646Because it's a no save no SR spell that takes everyone without spells out of the fight for at least 2 rounds. Do I need to explain why only needing to fight half of a party or half of the enemies you encounter at a time is very strong?
>>740635814>that's not creativity, that's demanding the DMalmost as if that's how dnd works, wow.
>>740635815>DM is in charge of making the game compelling right?well noits a group effort
HAVE YOU TRIED NOT PLAYING D&D
>make mmo with no mounts>add them years later, ruining 80% of the maps in the game>instead of fixing it, make another mmo with mountsah yes nice of guild wars the break the mold by aping every single mmo ever made
>>740635661>they didn't announce the beta to any GW1 fags>they pretend they don't exist>no news in Guru or GW1 login>they shill the beta in Facebook instead>Most anon didn't know about it until someone made a /v/ thread about it>beta happen>it get shit on for being shit>Anet bought out the Guru site and close them to close down any critisim>does nothing with GW1 for years until a few gw1 dev took it upon themselves to update it for the anniversary>kept shitting on GW1 lore in the mean time in GW2
>>740635847>Do I need to explain why only needing to fight half of a party or half of the enemies you encounter at a time is very strong?Yes. Because nothing you said is unbalanced. I know you don't know this but in DnD the DM can make any situation happen. A spell doing a thing isn't strong or weak without knowing the full situation.
>>740635910Thats the problem though, he clearly hasn't. This dumb fuck thinks Fog is somehow game breaking.
>>740635932ackshually mounts are just about the best thing about GW2the problem is they then made the classic blunder of adding a flying ("flying") mount that invalidates all the other mounts
>>740635932The launch PoF mounts were fine. It's just Skyscale that ruins GW2's maps.
>>740636027they shouldn't exist at all. good or not.
>>740635815>Have you ever played this game?Anon you know for a fact this dude has never played DnD. He's some sort of retarded /tg/ tourist who never plays but follows DnD because he thinks hes a superior nerd.
DND is so fucking cancer. It should have remained a wargame with strict rules. And why are you even talking about that shit in a Guild Wars thread?
>>740636027There already fucking griffon that serve as an insult to a monk hero as well
>>740636053ground mounts are great but flying just invalidates all environments and should never be included again
>>740636025but he's right, Solid Fog is game-breakingly powerful. Which is why they deleted it in 5E.
>>740636001>unironic no limits fallacyYou know there are rules for encounters for a reason right
>>740636135No it wasn't it was broken up into its individual parts so the DM had more control. A fact that this stupid retard wouldn't be able to grasp because he is applying video game logic to a table top game.
>>740635932i hate mounts. hate having to get on and off just to do shit. if your world is big enough to require amounts that means it has too much empty wasted space
>>740636174You know what the first rule is right
>>740636135>Solid Fog is game-breakingly powerfulOk there is a level 8 cloudkill on top of your party, you all died.I guess cloudkill is gamebreaking now
>>740636131Skyscale also invalidated Griffon
>>740636198yup. look at how empty and stupid all pof and post-pof maps are. wastes of time.
>>740636135Also why it got nerfed in Pathfinder. except they left Sleet Storm untouched which is 90% the same effect except you have a Balance or Acrobatics save instead
>>740636191there's no spell that completely disables all ranged attacks and slows everyone to crawl in 5E, to my knowledge
guild wars 2 is the second best MMO on the market next to WoW/Classic. If you hate gear treadmills it's arguably the best. Also the mounts are the best in any MMO to date...and the PvP is fun...not gw1 fun or WoW bg fun but still pretty fun.I get that people don't like lesbians or some of the cringe story content but there really isnt that much of it and I personally don't really care since it's like sub-1% of the game...I still think about heart of thorns to this day...what a good expansion
>>740636225it is very very evident that he does not and actually believes that dnd has hard rules based on math. which just shows that retard never played the game before.
>>740636319Fog cloud, sleet storm, web, wall of sand, or just reintroduce solid fog which is the DMs prerogative.
>>740636083>why are you even talking about that shit in a Guild Wars thread?Someone brought up D&D as an example of Vertical Progression causing mechanical issues in a game, and then autists with no reading comprehension have spent 2 hours arguing with each other without realizing that one side is clearly talking about 3.5 and the other 5e and getting more and more upset about it.
>>740636343lmao, I think I played MU online more than I played questathon GW2 vomit
>>740636319>to my knowledgethere is a literal "just invent something" spell you brain fucked retard. holy shit how can people talk so much without knowing fucking anything https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2619213-wish
>won't be out for atlast a yearWho even cares?
>>740636509>yeah just use a 9th level spell to recreate a 4th level spell, that's totally the same thing
>>740636245Cloudkill has multiple avenues of defense that don't require magic, immunity to poison, walking out of it because it only slows you by half, a good Fort save to cut the CON damage in half. Solid Fog has exactly four active defenses against it: Freedom of Movement, dispelling(includes AMF, if you want to be anal) which has a chance of failure, non-LoS teleportation, and Gust of Wind which auto-disperses it in a round so it still delays a party a round.Three of those are not available to the PCs it fucks over. That is why it's such a retarded spell.
>>740636271yea, they are
>>740636389I am not interested in discussing Calvinball. I am interested in discussing the printed game.
>>740636549>there isn't >yes there is>b-but not like that jesus christ just wish for suicide at this point
>>740636446>and then autists with no reading comprehension have spent 2 hours arguing with each other without realizing that one side is clearly talking about 3.5 and the other 5e and getting more and more upset about it.Anon edition is irrelevant to vertical progression. DnD has both types, mostly horizontal, and vertical is not an issue at all.
>>740636623there is no printed dnd game. it's a ruleset designed to be bent and adapted to a social setting and personal preference. Maybe try therapy but ask the therapist to only use the printed ruleset of therapy and see how that goes. You might even get a certificate for your autism
>>740636710If vertical progression wasn't an issue, why did the Epic Level Handbook change how vertical progression functioned?
>>740636623No, what you're interested in is called conflict-orientated communication. You're lonely, have no friends, and seek companionship through causing conflict which gives you replies which makes you feel noticed.I pity you.
>>740636750See >>740636793Don't engage with his shitposting. He isn't genuine, he just wants replies.
>concordian art style>"action" trash 1v1 zoomer combat>99% likely to be another lobby based 99% solo daily chore slop>micro transactionsThe genre is dead.
Not falling for it again, they lied about everything pre GW2 release.Fuck them.
>>740636750Nah. Not interested in shit non-arguments that give cover to bad designers who force me to do more work covering up for them.
>>740625661The teaser for GW2 looked like absolute shit, too, with really fucked up races. Especially the sylvari.
>>740628645>Top GW2 streamer currently is a troon
>>740636826Just stick to video games. It's not like anyone wants you at their table anyway
>>740636824>already put out a new video of Colin lyingnot falling for it again
>>740636793No, what I'm interested in is discussing the GAME.You cannot, and will not, discuss the GAME because you are using rule zero as an out from discussing the GAME.You're literally pulling a not-real-communism.
>>740626101Instead you won't really have options. You will have light attack, heavy attack, parry, dodge and two pointless skills to pretend there are different classes.Every single fight will be the same.
>>740637030>i want to talk about the rules that shape the game>ignores the most important ruleyeah you are retarded sorry and condolences to your parents
>>740637152Oberoni fallacy, retard.
>>740636046>The launch PoF mounts were fine**for the POF maps
>>740636710There are two peoples in this thread.The 3.5 players are calling people that think Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have hundreds upon hundreds of rules-legal, completely legitimate, rules-understood-and-applied-correctly interactions that are a direct result of a spellcaster leveling up (vertically progressing) and gaining access to a new spell that is key to a combo, idiots. Because it does.The 5e players are saying, as a combination of 5e being constantly errata'd and because of Rule 0 (the GM having ultimate ability to overrule any written rule of the game), that Dungeons and Dragons doesn't have those same combos and therefore a problem with Vertical Progression.You are all just autists talking past each other.and you are shitting up an unrelated Guild Wars 3 shitposting thread.
>>740637152See >>740636818
>>740637270Im not reading whatever crap that is just know you're a retard
>>740630632this shits been going on for at least 2+ hours wewGW2 players are fucked in their heads.
>>740635932>make skyscale a long and painful quest>next expansion give everyone and their mom a free skyscale as soon as they sweep their credit cardnow that was the real kick in the balls
>>7406372703.5 was the last real DnD. Everything after is gay larp(as opposed to straight number autism larp).
>>740637340hey it was at least two expansions
>>740637270It doesn't. You don't play DnD.
>>740631256good game but who cares about the new content.
>>740637372oh that changes everything then!!!
>>740637230You couldn't do *that* much to break maps with the launch PoF mounts.The Rabbit could get you up to some JPs or POIs, I guess.Gryphon alone had some cheese, but was reliant on a map having high points. It couldn't just invalidate any map the way that Skyscale+Gryphon does.
>>740637270To clarify, I'm calling 5E players retards who play Babby's First Make-Believe. This would be where it ends, except they're insistent, no, D&D never had balance issues and vertical progression never caused any issues because you could rule zero it away, an argument that was taken out back and shot for not contributing to discussions 24 years ago.
>>740637419the bunny made some jumping puzzles so easy they had to nerf the daily rewards for them
>>740637419the rabbit made HoT maps easier to navigate, but not as much as the skyscaleGOD skyscale was a fucking mistake
>>740637270No there is just you shitposting to save face. And you're wrong.
>>740628304Nobody sane wants Guild Wars 3 tbf
>>740637529Go ahead, tell /tg/ 3.5 doesn't have any overpowered spells.
>>740637586>Go ahead tell me this red pen is blue Goalpost retard
>>740637340You have to do the original Skyscale questline anyway since if you don't you get a gimped version that only has the SotO masteries.
>>740637541Nobody sane want story from GW2. It would ironically be better if there was no main story at all and just let the map play out the story. The story end at level 20 or 50 if you're a Tybalt fag.
>>740637632You won't do it, because you know you're wrong.
>>740636823gw1 was always lobby based... (the lobby is just really big in gw2)
>>740637586who the fuck cares. It's not a videogame. It has a moderator with literal god lower sitting at the table. It is not designed to be balanced because that setting cannot and will never be
>>740637668Go stand on a landmine, you won't do it because you know you're wrong.
>>740637529I'm not part of your retarded argument and I don't care to know whether you're one of the 3.5 autists or 5e autists or which you apparently think I am because it doesn't matter.Get a hobby.
>>740637270No there is quite literally just you. You said DnD was unbalanced, everyone called you a retard, you got mad and shitposted about it for three hours. Get help, take meds.
>>740637586ok 3.5e if you play premade printed scenarios 100% by the book is a bad game. if you play it like that you are literally doing it wrong on purpose but sure, then it's just not very good
>>740627123>GW1 updatesThat just means they're going to inject it with GW2's design sensibilities and pozzed writing.
>>740637730If you can't understand why constantly putting a drag on the DM is a bad thing, you're a 5E babby who doesn't know what a helpful system looks like.
>>740637842all gw1 patches so far have been awesome
mmo niggas will call a game shit they have spent 4000 hours playing
>>740637839>ok 3.5e if you play premade printed scenarios 100% by the book is a bad game.It genuinely is not. The premade scenarios were designed well for the spells.
>>740637935Someone's never seen a module in their life.
I haven't played GW2 since anet devs were detagging and fucking up champ trains and the scarlet living story nonsense was still going. Is it worth playing now?
>>740637882>constantly putting a drag on the DM is a bad thingIt isn't because this doesn't happen
>>740637882>>740637270>dude who has never played dnd telling others how to play it Nah
>>740637882>drag on the DMwhat? your whole point was solid fog. Either the DM uses it in a way that's oppressive for the table, in which case the DM sucks, or the players use it in the environment, which if it overwhelms the prepared scenario either passed due to rule of cool, or the DM deus ex machinas himself out of it.At what point was the game broken?
>>740637974Every ounce of effort you have to spend correcting for a system is an ounce of effort that didn't go into making things for your campaign or running your campaign.Your argument puts FATAL on equal footing with any other game. Your argument is inherently wrong.
>>740637971not really
>>740636343If you hate gear treadmills you have no business playing mmorpgs. 'this racing game is the second best on the market and if you hate racing vehicles it's great for you'. GW2 isn't an alternate take on an RPG it's a negation of an RPG trying to pull in pvp tourists that need to be gatekept hard. Or else you get idiot frog posters asking why mmos aren't 'skill based' and why they have levels and stats and everything isn't cosmetic. GW is fucking cancer.
>>740638042>Every ounce of effort you have to spend correcting for a system Doesn't happen
>>740638069but GW2 has a huge gear treadmill, it's called the legendary armory
>>740638042>Every ounce of effort you have to spend correcting for a system is an ounce of effort that didn't go into making things for your campaign or running your campaign.You have failed to grasp the very purpose of a DM and the purpose of DnD. Because again; you have never played it.
>>740638019No, solid fog is one singular example of why fighting unbalanced fire with unbalanced fire is bad for the game. There's more than one way to play tabletop RPGs, and for more than one of them, the DM DXMing shit to counter an option is bad play.
GO BE RETARDED ABOUT D&D ON /tg/ THIS THREAD IS FOR SHITTING ON GUILD WARS 2
>>740638107That's exclusively for autists that want to jerk off in front of a mirror, you should have stuck with ascended gear.
>>740638019Stop feeding the troll. If it isn't GW3 related shut the fuck up.
>>740638121The purpose of a DM is to be an impartial referee. That's why they were called the referee.
>>740638220You have never played DnD.
How solo friendly was GW2? As in, playing solo 90% of the time.
>>740638204Legendary gear is a direct upgrade to ascended gear since it lets you freely swap stats, and is unlocked account-wide
>>740638170>players use overpowered spell >the scenario falls apart immediately>the DM not compensating his own planning failure to keep the session interesting is the fault of the rulesyou either are the absolutely worst DM or never played dnd in your life
>>740638069>If you this WoW mechanic you have no business playing mmorpgsNah fuck off WoWfag. Stop giving your opinion on a genre you don't play.
>>740638278Hes trolling you retard
>>740638260you can do basically everything but dungeons (which almost no one does anymore) solo or with PUGs.
>>740638318I'm trolling you :^)
>>740638260That's how 2/3 of the playerbase plays, without ever once touching group content, PvP, or WvW.
>>740638278a DM saying "no you don't" to a player using spell as intended is not fun gameplay for anyone involved.
>>740637904Counterpoint: they nerf Quivering Blade. This honestly ruin my day.
>>740638069Hey retard. Second Life is an MMORPG. Get mad about it.
>>740638398yeah no you actually do not play fuck off
>>740638278No, you didn't follow the train of logic. What should actually happen is the DM should have either fixed the spell before they hit the table, or let this fly the first time and houserule the spell after the fact. The argument was that the spell was fine because the DM could use Solid Fog back at the players just as much, which ignores how it impacts different classes differently.
>>740627794>be in starting area>fight enemies on even ground>level up bigly>go back to starting area>still fighting enemies on even ground Literally the worst feeling I've ever had in an rpg. All my progression meant nothing. If they actually do horizontal "progression" again I hope they go all the way and just abandon stats entirely.
>>740638293You say I don't play MMOs and you think WoW started gear treadmills. That's just sad. Enjoy doing Plane of Time with apothic armor on in EQ.
>>740638490>the DM should just ruin the session by letting the players win turn 1 and then everyone goes homelmao ok retard sure you don't only not play dnd but also don't know how friends work
>>740638069SMTO Imagine didnt have a gear threadmill, it was all cash shop and then ingame enchantments
>>740638572>still replying to the trollAnon...
>>740638490Also ignores how there's a big difference between disabling enemy martial classes and disabling PC martial classes.If you cast Solid Fog on a clump of enemy fighters or animals or something, the DM still has the ability to do something because they're controlling more than one enemy. If the DM casts Solid Fog on the party, 2 players have to sit with their thumbs up their fucking ass for several rounds unless the caster manages to deal with the Solid Fog that doesn't impact them personally (and might even be protecting them).Do I need to explain to you why telling 2 out of 4 players 'get fucked' every encounter until they get a Ring of Freedom of Movement is bad?
>>740638572>players win turn 1Nigga that's just 3.5.
>>740637665I fucking hate main storylines in MMOs. It is entitely the wrong genre for that shit. Whoever started the trend should be raked.
I think I am too WoW-brained for something like GW. I wanted to get excited but anons told me that the most social thing in GW2 is doing quests in big groups.Maybe they're going to do something exciting with action combat and pvp but I guess I have to just wait and see.
>>740638712gw2 has raids and organized pvp if you want to sit on discord with virgins
>>740638712raids are fun but they're basically dead content outside of a small insular group of elitists
You know realize that Guild Wars 1 going Free to Play via mobile at the end of this month will bring in SEA, Indian, Chinese, Latinx, and other 3rd worlder into farming and destroying the game.
>>740638572>doesn't understand combat-as-war vs combat-as-sportIf you think an encounter is 'ruined' because it ends quickly, you might want to play D&D 4E instead.
>>740638769>deep complex battle system>can be played on a phoneSorry gw1 bros but if you game can be played on aphone, is not that good
>>740638069Fucking themepark babbies, fuck off.
>>740638567No I said you don't play MMOs because you said "If you hate gear treadmills you have no business playing mmorpgs", and gear treadmills are not an intrinsic part of mmorpgs, not even many of the most popular ones of all time.If you had said "If you hate holding two guns and throwing glowing blue sticky grenades you have no business playing FPS" I would have called you a Halofag.
>>740638920Aussie, Kiwi, and Canadian are playing it right now and meta solo build or heroes make it an auto run game
>>740639007There was literally a fucking Zelda knockoff MMO that played exactly like Link to the Past. Still exists. UO's 'gear treadmill' was usually just you having to take time to regain shit that was ganked from your corpse. Anyone who tells you MMOs HAVE to be exactly Everquest or they're not an MMO is an enormous faggot, there is very little about an MMO that is set in stone.
I haven't played an MMO since WoW Legion in 2017.I just like to level characters to the max and then level a new character. Slow, without regard for efficiency, possibly while listening to podcasts. If this is good for that, I may try it.
>>740637730If your mindset assigns equal quality to both D&D and the game where it takes 8 hours to generate a character through incoherent tables, there are rules for rape, you roll for your anal circumference, and you can piss on someone hard enough to cut limbs off, your mindset is wrong.
>>740638920Wrong
>>740639154I only played Legion through modern WoW Remix system. But shit, I get it. Legion is great.
>>740639280Wakfu's Xelors look so much better
Nothing said in this thread matters because Guild Wars is gay as fuck and always has been. The whole noble, hopeful heroic tone is gay, the voice acting is gay, the art style is gay, the characters are gay (sometimes literally). Literally only women and fags care about Guild Wars.
I fucking hate it how parryrollslop infested every single genre at this point.
>>740639154>I just like to level characters to the max and then level a new character. Slow, without regard for efficiencyHoly fucking bas...>possibly while listening to podcasts.Kill yourself.
>>740639479Dofus Xelors get big hats
>>740639560Parry/Dodge/Block slop > Number go up Slop
>>740639631Big hats only look good with big beards.
>>740639107They don't have to be like it. Zelda isn't an RPG who the fuck knows why you would bring it up. But RPGs all need progression treadmills and gear is a euphemism to cover stats, skills and equipment causing your character's power to continuously go up. Not my problem if you're too autistic to be able to substitute gear for power in the treadmill concept. Since bosses drop gear that's generally what the progression goes by. GW does none of this and that's why it's gatekept.
>>740639560what's wrong? bad at parrying people? haha god same :(
>>740625484Aion 2 has more chance of saving MMOs than this does, that is to say it doesn't have a chance.
>>740639560as opposed to tabslop?
>>740639923>RPGs all need progression treadmillsNo
>>740639923there's a difference between vertical progression and a progression treadmill. Vertical progression in most RPGs has an endpoint. And indeed, both GW2 and GW1 have vertical progression in this sense. Most "traditional" MMOs then extend the vertical progression endlessly through expansions, creating the gear treadmill. The Guild Warses, on the other hand, approach endgame as collecting sidegrades. GW2 in particular also provides a bit of miniaturized vertical progression as part of these lateral moves through elite specs and masteries. A lot of these things are objective upgrades, even if they are not numerically better than what you had before. Legendary gear is probably the prime example of this, as it is a massive upgrade in terms of convenience and versatility even if numerically it is identical to ascended gear.
>>740640021If you played tw aion 2 you'd understand it's massively p2w that neither guild wars has had an issue with
>>740640143It works and it gives you varied options. Aion and vanilla/TBC WoW have fun combat.
>>740633609The combat in that game was so dogshit and obtuse that it caused the 10% or so of players who bothered to understand it could deal something like 20 times more damage than a casual playerWhich created a massive problem because those two groups had about the same amount of vocal power and had to have content made for themIt made the game completely shizophrenic between baby easy auto-playing bullshit and dungeons and boss mechanics that will one tap you or fail you if you don't do proper DPSThe game had some cool unique mounts tho
>>740640609Everything about Aion 2 is so disgusting. It's like they went out of the way to create the ultimate gookslop while humiliating people who loved the original.
>>740640609I did play it, what I'm saying is that GW3 is going to be a piece of shit and has less chances of having any impact than Aion 2 does (0)
I remember when GW2 was supposed to save MMOs. Although OP was probably in diapers then so I can forgive him.
>gw reforged / gw2 until September >Aion 2 for a few months >wow vanilla plus for almost a year >gw3 Pretty decent mmo year if you ignore aoc and new world burning
>>740640746I hated the combat.>99% of the time you're spamming your basic skill like a psycho, shit that should have been bound to an auto attack function>the bread and the butter are supposed to be field effect combos but you can't fucking see shit when other players are also fighting so there's no way to track what the fuck is going onThe whole thing was just constantly sabotaging itself.
>>740640587>And indeed, both GW2 and GW1 have vertical progression in this senseThe problem is that it's way too short. If you're not going to have a gear treadmill, getting to the highest power should at least be an achievement that takes a long time, years preferably, not a couple of weeks to months. A freshly level capped character being almost as strong as a fully kitted veteran is intensely retarded, bad game design. There needs to be a much bigger gap.
>>740639560GW2 already has a dodge roll. The one thing that sets ot apart from other tab target MMOs is the physics, movement and dodging so it evolving into more of a conventional action game with an emphasis on movement is not surprising.
>>740641106Fuck off retard.
>>740641043more like >Aion 2 for 2 weeks before you hit the f2p upgrade cap
