His complaints were:>Camera issues caused by the transition to 3D make a lot of experiences that used to be fun, like fighting keese and dodging obstacles, a chore.>Most of the time combat isn't engaging because you're just waiting around for the enemy to allow you to kill them>Glimmers of potential in the combat like Darknuts show that the combat had way more potential then they showed off and they mostly squandered it>The above problem with the combat is part of a larger trend where the 3D games increasingly put an emphasis on visual spectacle (e.g, slow opening treasure chests) which made the series more and more like a passive theme park ride than an exploratory adventure or monster slaying game. This culminated in the shitfest that was Skyward Sword.>The combat and puzzle elements of the game are now entirely separated and don't mix well at all, when before in 2D Zeldas they were the same thing, or could be part of the same room.>There are a huge number of non-puzzles that don't hold up anymore, like shooting eyes on walls or jumping between platforms when there aren't any threats and you're just holding forwardI cannot find a single flaw in any of the above complaints, despite liking Ocarina of Time.
Yep, ALttP will always be superior.>ALttP: timeless 2D artstyle that aged like wine>OoT: ugly early 3D abomination with muddy textures>ALttP: smooth, tight, precise, responsive 60fps>OoT: runs at 15fps, extremely sluggish and laggy>ALttP: dense overworld full of secrets>OoT: empty overworld full of wasted space just to hold stick forward through>ALttP: can see entire room at a glance so puzzles require unique ways of interacting with the environment and thinking outside the box>OoT: entering first person and looking at a wall is considered a """puzzle""">ALttP: starts you right in the action, can approach dungeons in your own order at your own pace with little bogging you down.>OoT: constant cutscenes, constant exposition dumps, game treats you like a retard with tutorial every two minutes>ALttP: combat is fast-paced and challenging with a huge variety of enemies. Spacing and positioning are important>OoT: Z-targeting removes any challenge of spacing and positioning and makes the combat just a glorified rhythm game. Every combat encounter just involves circling around the enemy, waiting for them to be open to attack, and repeat. It's just a boring, drawn-out slog>ALttP: dungeons are complex and labyrinthine and require you to create a mental map and learn how rooms are connected>OoT: dungeons are largely linear on-rails where you just solve the """puzzle""" by entering first person and looking around the room or jumping on some platforms>ALttP: dungeons are dynamic and fast-paced with combat, hazards, and puzzles all intrinsically linked in the same area>OoT: Simon-Says tier dungeons segmented into designated 'combat area' and 'puzzle area' with little overlap between the two>ALttP: bosses are challenging and memorable requiring unique methods to dispatch them that you must figure out>OoT: booses are pushovers that are just a glorified tutorial for the item you conveniently just found in that dungeon
>>740896364OOTfags and MMfags anally prolapsed and ANNIHILATED
>Camera issuesPress z nigga
Arin if the remake has cute females:>OoT still sucks you fucking losers! Go jack off Miyamoto-sensei!Arin if the remake has ugly females:>Wow! They really brought the game up to modern standards, in a good way of course! Sure, the sexist manbabies are mad, but that's just the cherry on top of this great game!
>>740896587If I told you to press L3 as your only mode of moving the camera in dark souls you'd criticize it, but when its an old game it's uncriticizable.guess what? they didn't have to use this camera control scheme. 2d exists. top down exists. tank controls exist. fixed position cameras exist.
>>740896260>Camera issues caused by the transition to 3D make a lot of experiences that used to be fun, like fighting keese and dodging obstacles, a chore.fun is subjective>Most of the time combat isn't engaging because you're just waiting around for the enemy to allow you to kill themjust like the gameboy games where you are spamming attack while waiting for enemies to walk into your sword for half the time?>Glimmers of potential in the combat like Darknuts show that the combat had way more potential then they showed off and they mostly squandered itthe games are for children and combat has never been the focus, and it was never anything amazing in the gameboy games.>The above problem with the combat is part of a larger trend where the 3D games increasingly put an emphasis on visual spectacle (e.g, slow opening treasure chests) which made the series more and more like a passive theme park ride than an exploratory adventure or monster slaying game. This culminated in the shitfest that was Skyward Sword.has less to do with the games being 3d and more about the designers wanting to dumb things down so people wouldnt miss anything.>The combat and puzzle elements of the game are now entirely separated and don't mix well at all, when before in 2D Zeldas they were the same thing, or could be part of the same room.many fights in the 3d games can be puzzles in themselves, particularly the bosses.>There are a huge number of non-puzzles that don't hold up anymore, like shooting eyes on walls or jumping between platforms when there aren't any threats and you're just holding forwardah yes, eye shooting was way more hecking engaging when it ws 2d. wtf even is this "complaint"
>You will live to see nuOoT fags cursed to have this fat fuck make a follow up to this meme video where he compares OoT to the demake OoT
>>740897513The game had an atrocious framerate even for its time. Had too many automatisms even for its time. The main map was a desert even for its time. The music was a bunch of midis even for its time. Alundra, an older game, had better puzzles. Combat was simplistic even for its time. Text moved too slowly even for its time.
>>740896260>2D to 3D badMatter of opinion. I've always preferred 3D games to 2D games.>Having to wait to attack enemiesI do actually agree with this. Games still pull this stunt today and it's annoying. Just let players be good without arbitrary invincibility periods.>Wasted combat potential I didn't think it was bad. This might be a hot take but LoZ has been more of a puzzle series than a combat one. Combat is an integral part of the games, but it exists more as a tool to solve puzzles rather than a full on complex feature.>Theme park ride exploration Disagree. The excitement of finding something that no one else has never stopped being exciting. Never felt like I was a tourist. Adding some cinematic camera shots might not be necessary but it does make opening chests more meaningful.Unless it's just a gem. Then he has a valid point.>3D and puzzles don't mixHard disagree. Dude has ZERO spatial awareness if he thought this was an issue. Learn the layout of the room and don't be a retard to get hit by something that's clearly a threat. Learn how to develop a sixth sense and these problems disappear.>Puzzles and exploration doesn't hold up anymore Again, no sixth sense. No spatial awareness. No learning the layout. It's why he sucked at the game.
>>740899491Anon, the puzzles from 2D zelda simply do not work in 3D.
>>740896260VIDEO GAMES, FAGGOT, VIDEO GAMES!
>>740896260>11 years agoimagine still seething about this
>>740896260I'm surprised he didn't mention the elephant in the room.Every single ALTTP map serves a purpose, you'll never have to deal with a completely barren hub.
>>740896260Sounds like both you and him are retards, curious
>>740896260>>740896364I agree. ALTTP mogs OOT bigly. Always has.
>>740896740Haven't been paying attention to nuArin, old Arin would complain about z-targeting and Navi being fully voiced
>>740901308>no argument
>>740896260>>740896364>>740896563Pathetic famesaggot
Ego said he regrets making this video
>>740896364Faggot OP had his copypasta ready
>>740902345I’m sure he regrets it for the wrong reasons like everything else.
>>740898579He hasn't put effort into anything in over a decade. He's not going to make a new video which takes time and effort when he could instead just pay some retards to shit out a LGBT pandering text adventure and make money.
>lock onto bat>fire sling shotIt's literally less of a hassle than the ones that fly all over the place in the 2D gamesEgoraptor is retarded and doesn't know how to play video games.
>>740902493He still thinks he's right. He just didn't think people would disagree with him.
>>740896364ALTTP's sprites aged like shit. Minish Cap is a good looking 2D Zelda. Pocky and Rocky is a good looking Super Nintendo game.
>>740896260This is ancient and it was all refuted at the timeHe sucked and had to admit on stream object permanence is a think babies learn and he should get some.He chose to wait for the vulnerability phase in combat instead of finding ways to attack or using items.The combat system having more potential isn't a criticism. Being a dead end combat system would be criticism. The game is a breakthrough in so many ways it's dumb to say they didn't do enough.Why would you not hype a new item for the player with an animation? That has nothing to do with the "theme park" trope in video games. Pretending dungeon maps, compass, and big keys were going to be anticipated was cringe though. So do all those add up to a minute of egoraptors life wasted in a single playthrough?The combat and puzzle elements are just 2d zelda in 3d. I don't even know what the fuck the point is supposed to be here. If I was going to criticize I'd say its too similar to 2D zelda and there needed to be new ideas with a new dimension at their disposal.Shooting eye switch near the ceiling is just the new floor switch under a pot. Who cares. Yes "look for thing" isn't a puzzle for adults. But 2D zelda has plenty of that and always did. What the fuck is wrong with auto jump? Jumping isn't a part of zelda, it's not a platformer. But what kind of adventure would this be if there were no gaps to cross that are only a few feet across? What if there were and link can't jump like it's bomberman 64. Jumping is just visual in 3d zelda because its aesthetically necessary.
>>740902893You're so stupid you don't even realize you're validating his argument against 3D. You're actually dumber than Arin. Astounding.
>>740903345>Noooo! It's too slow and hard to hit the bat!You hold Z, bro. It's exactly the same as hitting a bug with a projectile in Dark Souls. No one complains about that.
>>740903503>he still doesn't get itYep. Actually dumb.
>NO! I DON'T LIKE BASIC 3D GAMING CONVENTIONS!It's 2026, and everyone else is okay with it. You're a dinosaur. Fuck off.
>he still doesn't get itHis stupidity continues.
Friendly reminder that Arin made an apology post on Reddit where he admitted he was being disingenuous with the entire Zelda Sequelitis because he was unironically butthurt that Ocarina of Time is so popular. Every single point he made in the video was also discarded once he actually played it on GameGrumps where it was shown that he cannot comprehend three-dimensional gaming, cannot follow basic instructions, refuses to experiment with controls/possible interactions (something he sucked off Mega Man X for doing - another game he played like shit on GameGrumps too), and had to use a guide for most of the game.Also, he had to use a guide for the beginning of Wind Waker where you get the shield. The shield your grandma gives you inside your own house.
>>740903786He never said this, and most of his points are correct despite how bad he is at the game.
>ITT zoomoids upset that Nintendo is giving treatment to a classic rather than their ubishit clones of the wild #1 and #2
hmmm
>>740903779Genuinely, what is the argument? Zelda shouldn't be a 3D game, because 3D works differently to 2D?I don't agree, and I like the 3D ones more, because of the extra layer of immersion they bring to the table. Are we done?
>>740904020The arguments are laid out pretty plainly in the OP.
>>740903856>He never said thisThe Reddit post can just be Googled.>and most of his points are correctExcept they aren't. Multiple videos were uploaded after the Ocarina of Time playthrough where people pointed out he is utterly brain dead. A Wolfos can be jump attacked for an insta-kill. Deku Scrubs can be smacked out of the ground. People actually timed specific enemies like Stalfos and Lizalfos and their encounters take mere seconds. The entire section of the Sequelitis where he suggests a blade trap obstacle in a platforming segment is ACTUALLY IN THE GAME.
>>740896260OoT being a passive theme park ride is exactly why normalfaggots love it.
>>740904020The argument isn't that Zelda shouldn't be 3D. The argument is OoT doesn't handle its 3D elements well. You're presenting a straw man because you don't understand the actual argument so you're substituting it with what you think the argument is. There is a difference between "this isn't done well" and "this should not be done."
>>740904104I think Egoraptor is wrong about almost everything he has ever said, and I think he needs to come out of the closet and have sex with a man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1fJgpv4z68
>>740904168>OoT doesn't handle its 3D elements well.I don't agree. I think ALTTP has bad combat because you have a shitty short sword, and you ping around like a pinball when enemies hit you. I don't enjoy playing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMFkzaZKLTU
>>740902946Then he's retarded
>>740904132Anon, almost the entirety of what he said was correct. The fact that you can insta kill enemies isn't changing the fact that the majority of enemies require to sit around and wait for an opening to attack them. He's correct about the game being like a theme park ride, and he's correct about the game's animations taking too long such as the constant reusing of the chest animations.
>>740896260Yeah, but then you watch him play oot and he's genuinely awful at it. After that it reads more like he was already at the conclusion that it must suck and then backwards planned his argument from there like he's in debate club.
>>740904328>the majority of enemies require to sit around and wait for an opening to attack themName an enemy you're required to wait for.
>>740904328>enemies should never be blockingBut then there would be no challenge? You could just button mash through the whole game.You can usually force an opening by experimenting with your tools, which makes for a satisfying learning experience.
>>740899491Would you consider enemies blocking to be forcing the player to wait?
>>740903958OP has been posting this shit for 10 years and in that time Arin himself admitted he was wrong lmao
>>740904612that's clearly what it means in this context. enemies like skultulas having open and guarded states.As opposed to just sitting and letting you kill them, I guess?
>>740904693>enemies like skultulas having open and guarded states.You know you can kill a skulltula with an arrow to the face, right? You know child Link can use deku nuts or the boomerang to get to the back without waiting, right?
>>740904797i do know that, but OP doesn't.
>when you're so bad at 3D games you tank your career and become a lolcow
>>740903020(You)
>>740904693>As opposed to just sitting and letting you kill them, I guess?On/Off vulnerability states are not fun to engage with. A good enemy is designed in such a way that if you're good enough you can dictate the flow of battle 100% and every strike can land.>>740904797Not every enemy who blocks can be trivialized(you picked a poor example anyway because there are multiple Skulltulas early on where this trick doesn't work due to a lack of space to maneuver behind them after stunning) and this isn't a good argument because of the way OoT is designed.
>>740905230no, it really looks ugly. Nintendo's pixel art was all over the place on the SNES. They didn't get their shit together until the later years, when stuff like Yoshi's Island was coming out.ALTTP has a weird looking top-heavy Link with Pink hair, and a triangular face. he looks like shit.
>>740904467Ganon. I have to wait for the whole game to kill him. That's bullshit. The game should just teleport me to the credits like speedrunners do.
>>740905463works on my machine
>>740905245>A good enemy is designed in such a way that if you're good enough you can dictate the flow of battle 100% and every strike can land.So like Ocarina of Time.Plus, if your criteria for a good game is an enemy can never be invulnerable, then you're throwing a lot of games under the bus.
>>740899241>even for its time.Yeah, people talk as if 1998 were prehistory and nobody knew how to make games back then. But the truth is that many games from 1998 have aged remarkably well, and some are still considered top-notch in their genres, even when compared to modern games:>Starcraft>Battle Garegga>KOF 98>Street Fighter Alpha 3>F-Zero X>Gran Turismo 2>Baldur's Gate>Xenogears>Suikoden 2>Half LifeEtc...But then you get to OOT, and it's unplayable garbage running at 240p-20fps, full of downtime, dumb puzzles, an uninteresting narrative, unused mechanics, and combat with zero depth, but suddenly, then it's because games from 1998 weren't good and they've all aged poorly...
>>740904612Not necessarily.If the game offers you options to get past it, then that's fine. Throw a fire pot, dodge around them, shoot their legs, or just overpower them with brute force. All of these options are fine.It's when enemies become invincible or even psuedo-invincible, like flying out of the arena or all your attacks bounce off of them that it gets annoying.Now you're forced to wait or do some weird jumping/running/gadget puzzle until the enemy or the boss becomes vulnerable again before you can actually do something.
I wonder, would WW be ten times better if you could use ending blow instead of being severely punished for pancaking enemies with immunity to all damage while lying flat on their ass.don't get me wrong, boosted jump attack quick slash cheese is great and all but there should be a more compelling reason to use large weapons besides having a larger hitbox on boosted jump attack quick slash cheese.
>>740905736i like zelda more than most of those
>>740905245>there are multiple Skulltulas early on where this trick doesn't work due to a lack of space to maneuver behind themYou know you can hit skulltulas to make them swing and then freeze them, right? And as for the skulltulas you encounter early, the first Deku Tree one can be ignored. The second has a huge platform including a pushable block you can use.
>>740905739so stop having adhd and wait
>>740905736>XenogearsThis "game" is nothing but downtime with zero depth.
This video has always been stupid. All of his examples of "bad game design" absolutely hinge on him being dogshit at the game and going out of his way to not engage with it. He wrote, voice acted, and animated a bunch of really dumb straw men to shout at him in his video and then he owns them. It was, is and always will be fucking cringe.At the end of the day his issue is that he's ADD as fuck and absolutely detests reading or spending more than 3 seconds not mashing buttons. We saw him absolutely suck dick at every 3D game he ever played for years on Game Grumps. We saw him sperg the fuck out if a game even dared have a couple of text boxes at the start to tell you the controls, refuse to take any of it in, get stuck immediately, and blame the game. When it comes to gaming the guy never mentally got past 1995, and was clearly stillnbeyond bitter he never understood the mass appeal and universal acclaim of Ocarina of Time. Coincidentally, all the good games that were ever made were out when he was 8. And somehow, he got a whole generation of little nerds to agree with him.
>>740905727>Plus, if your criteria for a good game is an enemy can never be invulnerableStraw man. Are you capable of responding without relying on fallacies?
>>740906025>erm, don't say what i said back to meCan you just fuck off? I'm bored of you
>>740896260>>Camera issues caused by the transition to 3D make a lot of experiences that used to be fun, like fighting keese and dodging obstacles, a chore.This is just Arin having 0 object permeance >Most of the time combat isn't engaging because you're just waiting around for the enemy to allow you to kill themThis is just Arin being a retard and refusing to use anything besides the sword even if a different item would instantly end the encounter.>There are a huge number of non-puzzles that don't hold up anymore, like shooting eyes on walls or jumping between platforms when there aren't any threats and you're just holding forwardMeanwhile ALttP has shooting eyes, pushing blocks, standing on switches, etcArin is a retard and his playthrough of OoT and MM prove this. He legitimately spent several minutes being unable to go up a small hill because he kept trying to roll up it. He died multiple times to clams, in both OoT and MM. He refused to use anything but the sword so he could cry about "waiting" when any number of other items would make the encounter instantly over. He refused to unequip the Hover Boots so he could intentionally fall into pits and take unnecessary damage so he could cry about it.He played these games intentionally like a massive fucking faggot just so he could try to pretend to have a point and he failed miserably.
>>740906079>He played these games intentionally like a massive fucking faggotNah, it just came naturally for him.
>>740896260This retard can't even beat the games he's talking about and I wish this dumbass would stay irrelevant. Shitraptor is so forced on gaming communities.
>>740906058>gets BTFO>"ugh! can you, like, fuck off? i'm like... soooo bored of you!"What are you a woman?
>>740902946>Act like a provocative edgy faggot who "isn't afraid to tackle the sacred cows!">Cry when you get any kind of actual push back Ah the HotDiggedyDemon approach...
>>740896260>Camera issues caused by the transition to 3D make a lot of experiences that used to be fun a chore.Unironic skill issue, 3D movement has always been smooth outside of first-person aiming>like fighting keese and dodging obstacles,Keese are super easy to deal with, just lock onto them and slash, they literally fly right at you. Also, nobody likes fighting Keese, 2D or otherwise>Most of the time combat isn't engaging because you're just waiting around for the enemy to allow you to kill themMost enemies have a weakness to one of your other weapons, such as the Bow for Skulltula. It's not the game's fault that Arin can't bother to experimentAlso, ALttP's combat is hilariously simple in comparison>Glimmers of potential in the combat like Iron KnucklesIron Knuckles are super simple enemies to deal with, only being a threat because of how much damage they do>The above problem with the combatShit argument. OoT's dungeons are very much exploratory, and if anything are better designed than ALttP's dungeons simply by virtue of having the decency to eliminate backtracking in most cases by having the dungeon naturally loop back on itself once you get the item/boss key (Forest Temple is a great example of this)Also, hating on chest opening animations is peak ADD>The combat and puzzle elements of the game are now entirely separatedNo Zelda game has ever naturally mixed combat and puzzles, as one tends to get in the way of the otherFinding an enemy's weak point is the closest it gets, but I'd hardly call it a puzzle>There are a huge number of non-puzzles that don't hold up anymoreMost puzzles in OoT, such as eye switches and jumping around, are carried over wholesale from ALttPHaving you shoot something to open a door or jumping onto platforms to progress will never be dated, if that's the case then most FPS games are outdated because they tend to do both all the time (Titanfall, for example)Arin is a massive faggot and his arguments are utter dogshit
>>740906285>3D movement has always been smoothStopped reading there. You can not use the word "smooth" to describe a game that plays at 20 FPS and frequently has pretty extreme frame drops.
>>740896364A Link to the Past is fucking ugly, 2D graphics age better than early 3D ones in theory but they need to look good in the first place for that to happen.
>>740905931Someone who actually kind of likes Xenogears here. It's probably in Top 5 LARPer games of all time. Right up there with Shadow of the Colossus and Planescape Torment.In that the people most vocally obnoxious about how good its supposedly is have never touched it and just use it as a cudgel.
>>740905995>All of his examples of "bad game design" absolutely hinge on him being dogshit at the gameSo you disagree with the points OP posted? You think it's an improvement from AlttP that a rupee chest takes 10 seconds to open with a textbox telling you what a rupee is for the upteenth time? You think holding up to push a block for a minute is engaging gameplay?None of this has to do with being bad at videogames. And blaming "ADD" is so dishonest. You really think this shit should take longer? Enemies should have longer invincibility? Where is the joy in that?You clearly can't separate the criticisms from the man who said them. It's pathetic.
>>740906517>So you disagree with the points I posted?Yes.
>>740896260>>740904132>>740904865>ruins gaming discourse online for 2 decades>cries over any criticismWhy hasn't gayoververse been cancelled for this yet? Oh yeah, nepobabies being nepobabies.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyaFLqob9Vc
>>740906571If you agree then defend it in objective terms. If you can't then you concede.
>>740906375>You can not use the word "smooth" to describe a game that plays at 20 FPS and frequently has pretty extreme frame drops.Controls and framerate are two different things. The game controls perfectly fine despite the framerate, as evidenced when it was ported to 3DS
Go back
>>740906674>If you agreeI just told you I disagreed...
>>740896364>timeless 2D pink hair and porky aghnim in playdough world that aged like milkftfy
>>740906732>retard lacks reading comprehension>retard thinks he's talking to the same anonTime to feed yourself into a chipper I guess.
>>740903958>>740896260>>740906812So uh... what value does OP provide to the world?I feel like he would be more useful as fertilizer and should be turned into that objectively speaking.
>>740904467>>740904473You're required to wait for all of them to get an opening to attack them. That's what Arin is criticizing and he's completely correct about that.
>>740896997dark souls has a dogshit camera and worse platforming controls than Bubsy3D, but dark souls is literally uncriticizable according to the miyazaki dickworshippers.try again.
>>740906870I don't think that's quite correct
>>740906285>No Zelda game has ever naturally mixed combat and puzzles, as one tends to get in the way of the other>Finding an enemy's weak point is the closest it gets, but I'd hardly call it a puzzleHe never said that. He's saying that the integration of the two got significantly worse with each iteration of the series. Hence Skyward sword.
>>740903020>>740906419>>740906741ALTTP is one of the absolute best looking games on the system. It looks brilliant and it translates really well to modern displays. It's very sharp, clean, colorful, comfy, and easy to visually parse at a glance..It's very easy to tell upper levels from lower levels, hitboxes, enemies stand out, your player character is a small sprite allowing a great degree of movement and creating fluid and dynamic combat focused on spacing and positioning, color pops and gives emphasis to points of interest, UI is intuitive and unintrusive. Overall, it's very 'gamey' (positive connotation) in its visual language and very intentional in its visual design as an extension of gameplay. ALTTP is genuinely the best looking game on SNES, not in terms of raw numbers, but artstyle and visual cohesion with gameplay.
>>740905736Half-Life really is a constant kick in the balls to tendies isnt it? same year as OoT, year after Goldeneye, makes both look like indie tech demos
>>740907182...in opposite land!
>>740907241>immediate ballbusted tendiewelp, that confirms that theory
>>740907182What does Half-Life have to do with anything? I don't play shooters.
>>740908217It's just a good game. It has actually all time amazing AI, but otherwise doesn't at all "make [OoT & Goldeneye] look like indie tech demos", as they're both actually more solid mechanically and better looking than it.
>>740896260
>>740896260This is the same guy who ragequit his playthrough of Majora's Mask and didn't return for years because he was too retarded to use his fucking shield. Why do you think his opinions matter?
>>740896364I’m realizing that the videos biggest flaw is comparing the third 2d Zelda to the first 3d Zelda. I think it would have been more interesting to compare alttp with wind waker, especially since there are a lot of parallels between those two in terms of game design.
>>740903020this. alttp is a fucking ugly game.
>>740896260>>740896364>1 minute apart
>>740896260He's not wrong but his mistake was being an egrifter. Instead of discussing the game now you just discuss the streamer's opinion of the game which he won't read.
>>740896364Theres only one youtuber I respect anymore and its a sonicfag of all things. I respect him because he made the video "ocarina of time: a link to the past but worse", which is something no supposed "fan of the series" is willing to publicly say because they are scared of ootbaby soibois.
>>740906245Not him, but you walked away from that argument a loser in my opinion. Feel free to cope about it if you want.
>>740906375Holy shit what a retarded reply. 5/10 made me reply.
>>740906812>Use words incorrectly>"hurr UR the dum 1!"Did you really think you looked intelligent in this?
>>740909424>>740896364Why do lttpfags have a boner for comparing oot and lttp, they're both good and are massively different in gameplay due to the extra dimension. There's no point in comparing them unironically.
>>740908121You seem like a very angry person if that silly post made you reply like that lol.
>>740909424>>740910237nta, but OoT really is just Alttp in 3D, just done kind of half assed because of time constraints.
>>740910476Not at all, plays and feels vastly different
>>740910237I'm not an lttpfag, Its a great game, but I still prefer the first game to it, along with botw/totk and albw. I also find oot to be pedestrian and it was immediately outshined by mm, which felt like its own game.
>>740896260>>740896364>faggot from yesterday replying to his own thread with an essay within a minute>is also an eceleb faggot and youtube video essay enjoyerbahahahaI like both games + ur gay
>>740896260high number of views on youtube is directly correlated to the content being shit by retards and for retards
>>740909345There's an autist on /v/ and /vr/ who has copypaste responses to everything that triggers him. Bot tier behavior.
>>740908835That's actually an interesting point. You even have the awkward middle child of MM that, while objectively not as different gameplay was as the jump from Zelda 1 to Zelda 2, is still in an awkward spot where not overwhelmingly much was taken from it going forward.That would be an interesting comparison.
>>740909345he's right on all accounts you know
>>740896260He can't even play the fucking game right, as was shown in the Game Grumps episode about Ocarina of Time. I've never seen such a retarded set of opinions blown the fuck out by someone showing they can't even play a game 8 year olds can comprehend the way these ones were.>>740904132>>740904290Man what a fucking retard. Jontron was faking it for the camera (probably but he could play basic ass games like OoT). It's sad people took this queer seriously at any point.
>>740912770That doesn't make anything of what he said wrong. There's no actual rebuttals towards anything he said because he's right.
>>740913098OoT really is a shitty overrated game but his criticisms are mostly nitpicking you only do if you're looking for easily video-clippable rage gamer things to complain about, the copypasta anon is much closer to its actual issues.
>>740896364>Yeplol you pathetic little FAGGOT
How are you faggots still talking about a 10 year old egoraptor video? What's next are you going to talk about why JonTron left game grumps? Who cares it was slop made for teenagers like a decade ago let it go lmao
>>740913665Mostly because he was correct about his criticisms and people are still pissed off years later.
>>740900485Kill yourself Pignoy
>>740906940So fucking what? The argument's retarded because Zelda was never soley ABOUT the combat, but that's quite LITERALLY all he cared about. Plus he's wrong anyway in regards to OoT since Deku nuts can stun 90% of enemies and can be bypassed as a result, but he said they're "useless". Also no one should take anything he says serious or what he thinks about anything when he flat out admitted he only dunked on OoT BECAUSE it's popular IE.) what a contrarian does, and he also lied when he said MM was his "favorite" because he wanted fit in with all the other hipsters who liked it over OoT. Plus he only """likes""" Sonic because it's fun to shit on his games. Fuck YOU, anon.
>>740914578So you can't seperate the argument from the person that made them. You're fundamentally not refuting the argument. You're just impotently seething and not actually refuting anything. Retard kun.
Arin has a gay blonde streak in his hair
>>740896260OoT is gay but Link to the past is massively overrated for a game that's in my opinion aggressively okay.
>>740896260I got stuck on Ocarina every couple hourseventually just followed a walk through but pretty game with great ambience
>>740896260He was annoying about it sorry
>cameraZ targeting was revolutionary, I actually dont remember being annoyed by the camera in the N64 Zeldas. I would constantly use Z to recentre but always felt in control, targeting enemies and maneuvering combat is still handled great.>combat complaintsthe real complaint here is enemy variety which is fair enough but the "waiting complaint" is nonsense, combat should be cyclical, even action games are turn based with defend phase and attack phase. Should there have been more difficult humanoid fights like darknuts and skeles, sure.>The combat and puzzle elements of the game are now entirely separated and don't mix well at all, when before in 2D Zeldas they were the same thing, or could be part of the same room.I do recall some puzzle rooms with enemies (keese) that were frustrating. The trade-off was that OoT had better, more difficult puzzles than ALttP's single screens. It's a different format, you can have a mix of both
>>740914878>Z targeting was revolutionaryAlready done before by Mega Man Legends and Tomb Raider, stop being a stupid parrot.
>>740914186>>740913098He's referring to this post>>740906839OP has yet to provide a rebuttal
>740914664Still the GOAT.Still influential.Still played even to this day.Arin's in an open relationship. (kek)Arin lost.You lost. Kill yourself, nigger. Saged your shit thread.
>>740913650Yup. ooT fags btfod B)
>>740901206Bro? Your light world death mountain?
>>740915087go fuck saria OOT FAG
Arin must be seething at the remake
A Link to the Past has dogshit dungeons. Every other 2D Zelda besides the NES games has better dungeons. OoT still has some of the best dungeons out of every 3D Zelda game.
>>740902770>He hasn't put effort into anything in over a decadeHe's actually been putting all his eggs into passive income and then voice acting gigs for friends, the game grump episodes they put out on weekdays are trash because they're usually only one offs or shit like monopoly, and the weekend episodes for long series is currently a nuzlocke where Arin died an hour or less in 3 times before finally getting to an okay place, and Dan keeps forgetting the basic tenants of a Nuzlocke because his weed-addled brain can only understand games made in the 80s and specifically Morrowind.
>>740915343Best Zelda is Link's Awakening and it's not even close, LttP has a big slump in the middle as you basically conquer the overworld way before ending the game, so it's just pointless padding between dungeons.
>>740896260Still talking about this old ass video are we
>>740896260Arin Hanson is a nigger who is bad at video gameshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJg3HP36FrM
>>740915042I love Ina!
>>740905736>>Xenogearsshit game propped up by a pretentious story only deep for teenagers that think evangelion is the definitive piece of media ever createdgraphics are spriteshit that was already outdated on releasegameplay is mindless and repetitive even for jrpg standards, it's literally spam the same move the whole gameit wasn't even finished and in the second half it becomes a mediocre visual novel the only good thing about it is the music, but you hear the same 2-3 tracks over and over
>>740915548LA dungeons have way more cohesive design, and the feather makes LA's dungeons feel more dynamic. LttP items are lame... 2 canes and 2 rods, so lazy.
>>740896260His criticism of "OoT's treasure opening time is way too long compared to ALttP's instant opening time" rings hollow when JonTron complained about the opposite when HE talked about ALttP's faults, claiming the treasure opening there was too underwhelming
>>740916678It's a dumb complaint that misses the forest for the trees. It's not that opening chests should be longer or shorter, the problem is how these games use generic rupees as chest rewards EVERYWHERE well past the point of you giving a shit about them, which makes exploration completely meaningless and unfruitful. Fidget spinner gameplay.
>>740896260Arin was especially correct about the enemies; they are generally unengaging. I know it's popular to point out how you can do things like use deku nuts to stun enemies or use the hookshot, and etc... but to say that is to miss the forest for the trees. The fact is that the enemies are simply not threatening to the player, and that they, in fact, for the most part, stand around and wait for you to kill them
>>740896260>>740896364The trvke that caused endless seething among 40-year-old freaks
>>740916859>>740916865Guy who only knows one idiom
>>740896260>e-celeb cock sucking threadKill yourselves.
>>740916941Meant for>>740906839
>>740917005Posts were made within seconds of each other
>>740917005t. treefag
>>740906887>other games got away with it so this game deserves 0 criticismSure convinced me OOT camera isn't shit.
>>740896260>The combat and puzzle elements of the game are now entirely separated and don't mix well at all, when before in 2D Zeldas they were the same thing, or could be part of the same room.>There are a huge number of non-puzzles that don't hold up anymore, like shooting eyes on walls or jumping between platforms when there aren't any threats and you're just holding forwardas someone who had exactly your opinion after watching arins stupid gay video I have to inform you that you are abjectly incorrect and the puzzles in oot have never actually been better. since.If I where to say what event convinced me of that it was watching this impatient faggot max out his stress response trying to navigate around a fucking clam in the water temple when I realized he is legitimately just getting frustrated over a game I beat as an 11 year old over his own impatience with the controls. Combined with his inability to problem solve and his complaints that the combat isn't even more difficult than it already is despite not being able to handle what already exists, really underlines how rancid the review is in retrospectI think the illusion could have been maintained if he had simply refrained from exposing how awful he was at these games in public for money but this grifter fat fuck couldn't be asked to refrain from that.anyway TL:DR heres a much better view showing why zelda oot and mm are some of the best zelda games to have ever existed and why they are still regarded as unmatched, As a bonus its 1/3 the watch time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwHqY_4nsJ4
>>740917372>gmtkI ain't clicking that reddit trash, dude is a complete NPC midwit on par with AI-written posts you find in /r/gamedev.
>>740917459if you watched arins 30 minute slop video but not this one you're a fucking faggot, that said, nothing in this video requires watching the video, so if you truly are as lazy a nigger as you are you could probably ask AI to summarize it. that said, if your attention span cries salty bitch tears over 12 minutes I cant imagine how you could ever play a zelda.
>>740913098The rebuttle is Arin's gameplay. Nobody should listen to anyone's opinion on a game if they are straight dogshit at it. It's irrefutable evidence that the original arguments don't hold any water.
>>740917618I almost got a conniption watching that faggot's retarded video on RNG years ago so I shan't give him any more validation regardless of how it's framed. Basically as retarded as Extra Credits.
>>740917720>I dont like facts regardless of who says themamazing opinion there. zelda is not for you though fren
>the complexity imposed by the z axis ironically forces 3d games to often remove or streamline spacial precision based mechanicsthis point rings true to me. especially in the context of z targeting. an example taken from another series, metroid, because of how z targeting lock on functioned, what had been a 2 dimensional system of linining up a weakpoint and then timing its exposure(eye lid open) got reduced to only the latter.
>>740917875I don't like retarded opinions spouted by retarded faggots, and you won't bait me on watching it so I could accurately dunk on your gay boyfriend's opinions.
>>740917965sorry nigger. I didn't link a video filled with opinions, just one filled with facts. wipe up your own diaper wearing ass, this thread is literally about zelda eceleb videos and the one I posted was objectively superior to arins 30m shitpost in every single way imaginable.
>>740917965>I don't like retarded opinions spouted by retarded faggotsbut you'll run to defend arin
>>740918120I disagreed with him in this very thread, in fact all nodev youtubers should stop trying to discuss game design entirely because they're all dunning kruger morons, it's like seriously listening to movie critics that never made a movie trying to talk about filmmaking.
>>740896260not video games, fuck off e-celeb fags deserve the rope.
Arin just wanted Zelda to turn into Ys. Also I find that the more I listen to his Shitquelitis the easier it is to poke holes in his arguments and point out flaws in his writing. He really loves interchangably projecting his thoughts and feelings onto the viewer as well as making statements without explaining or defining them as if you're just suppose to know what he's talking about. I really wish a skilled writer would grade his work because I can't see it going above a D.>Thinks about 'puzzles' in a literal sense as jigsaw pieces, foregoing the definition of the word >Considers this or that's "not a puzzle" when what he should say instead is it's either bland or not a good puzzle>Most thinks he bashes OOT for can be attributed to ALTTP as well in some instences (emphasis on story narrative, unskippable cutscenes, linearity, repetative gameplay loop of using the dungeon item to complete the dungeon/beat the boss/use to progress to the next area, cryptic puzzles, can't solve puzzles on the first screen)>Thinks Zelda 1 didn't have a narrative>Thinks OOT's an "Open world" game>Thinks Zelda "at it's core" is nothing but the combat>Compares Apples (3D action adventure combat) to Oranges (turn-based JRPG combat)>Bitches that not every enemy is an Iron Knuckle he can just mash attack to win against like he can in ALTTP>"Purposely misinforming the player on why they should care about something displaces their values. It give you a "You can't tell me what to do" attitude towards the game. You don't want a game to nag at you." >Translation: "I went into a game without prior knowledge and assumed things that I didn't get, wanted or expected and I'm blaming the game for restricting me based on its rules and limitations because of said expectations."
>>740896260Both games are kino thoughtever.You can't even call it fancesitting, both games are so different except in spirit that they can't be ranked against one another at all.the catholic church is the whore of babylon, the mark of the beast is submission to her, either through genuine belief (forehead) or going along for benefits (hand), with sunday rest being the most important part.
>>740915042>>740915878Cute and meant for anal sex.Yes, her being a flat Korean prude makes it hotter.
>The fact is that the enemies are simply not threatening to the player>Now watch as I crash out for over an hour getting captured by the Gerudo guards 30+ times and die to a fucking clam
>>740896260the combat for 3D zelda games except formaybe Skyward Sword has always been subpar. we've been needing a more DMC style of Combat for awhile now because enemies waiting for thier turn to die is retarded.
>>740896260>did not take off the hover boots the entire time in the shadow temple out of spite of game designWhy do people care about his opinions exactly?
>>740917372this video is incredibly entry-level and only talks in self-evident platitudes about puzzle mechanics changing the layout of dungeons, reddit as expected from a rainbow, nor does it even make any points related to egoraptor's criticism so why the fuck did you even waste my time?
>>740897513>just like the gameboy games2d zelda games had enemies actually come at you, or wander in a manner of persistent threat. while combat was simply "swing sword", the actual threat was still there: doing nothing caused you to take damage, and failing to deal with the threat caused you to take damage. while your proactive move was "swing sword", BEING PROACTIVE was actually possible. meanwhile with oot, the enemy literally can not hurt you if you just hold your shield up, you cant damage them by being proactive with your sword, and you just wait for the retaliation opportunity. OR go into menu, change item, use item to beat monster, go back into menu, change back to pertinent exploration item, as if thats any faster than just waiting your turn. yes, both games are piss easy and simple, but at least in 2d games you could actually fight properly against real threats. oot is hollow garbage.>many fights in the 3d games can be puzzles in themselves, particularly the bosses.lmao you're kidding yourself if "use the dungeon item on the glowing weakpoint of the boss" counts as a "puzzle". also you're either retarded, or deliberately not understanding the point of problem solving and combat happening at the same time.
>>740906254What did max do to deserve this label??? He's one of the goatsRecent or old? Havent kept up recently I dobt watch the stream shit
>>740918580arin hansons entire complaint is that the dungeons are all simplified dogwater because of the move to 3d when thats the exact opposite of what happened. funny to have you pretend you wouldnt watch the video only to seeth over the truth of the matter.Arin is completely wrong. the puzzles in mm and oot are amazing and good. the flaws he mentions about them are almost all shown to be areas he struggles with, such as remembering the whatever or playing without a guide etc. He complains about things he cant even tackle without training wheels. so thats>the combat>the puzzles>the exploration.That's literally everything you mentioned in the OP you homosexual, don't even pretend you aren;t sucking arins dick anymore. you are already crying and bawling over the fact that you where proven wrong and cannot offer a single rebuttle other than "umm reddit eceleb nuh uh!!!!!" imagine calling a video this correct "entry level." it contains information about the puzzle design of zelda which has basically no equal in the industry. your complaints are so fucking gay and fake I'm not even convinced at this point that you even watched the video. Tell me what the video actually contains. you wont. you can't. you are the type to get stumped by a puzzle made for 10 year olds let alone showing that you can understand a video on how to make said puzzles.
>>740902345he regrets the way he went about making his points, and the place of spite that it came from. nowhere in his "regret" post did he take back any of the points made.
>>740918867The dungeons *are* simplified dogwater, in fact the only time I even felt like I had to think was when I missed the vine wall at the beginning of the forest temple which wasn't even an intended puzzle at all but just a visibility issue, and that's a common theme throughout the entire game, it's not about reasoning across space but rather just finding the right button and pushing it. The paintings you have to shoot are another example of a braindead "puzzle" that's actually just a knowledge check gotcha.The video didn't talk about combat and exploration at all so I dunno what you're trying to imply, in fact the video is so basic and narrow it can be completely summarized as such:>zelda dungeons have on/off puzzle switches, these switches sometimes change things in other rooms you can't see, the endThe fact that you thought that was insightful in any way or that OoT has interesting puzzles is honestly baffling, so I can only assume you have a double digit IQ.
>>740903120>it was all refuted at the timelmao false>He suckeddoesnt make what he said untrue.>object permanenceone of only 2 things in the entire video that simply personal issues of his. everything else is irrefutable.>He chose to waitits absurd that your primary combat method is invalidated and that you're forced to wait>using itemstakes just as long>combat potential isnt a criticismyes it is. the combat flat out sucks. it COULD have been a lot better. >The game is a breakthroughat the time. and thats not an argument. it doesnt change the fact that it sucks and does not hold up today. it aged like milk.>theme parkyou literally dont even understand the statement made, lol>the combat and puzzles are the samethey are executed wildly differently, and are separated into 2 distinct modes of play>I don't even know what the fuck the point is supposed to be herethats because you're retarded. in 2d zelda you had to navigate spaces while also contending with threats. in oot, you either fight enemies, or do some threatless block pushing or platforming. like in lttp, there are those enemies that knock you away when you hit them. you have to both fight/avoid them while also navigating the narrow pathway and not get pushed off. in the water temple of lttp, there are those fishy things that swim down the narrow channels. you have to navigate your path and also deal with the threats. oot is divided into "combat phase" and "exploration phase". >Shooting eye switch near the ceiling is just the new floor switch under a pot.you know, thats ACTUALLY a pretty fair comparison. almost. the button under the pot requires you to get TO the pot and engage with it. sometimes there are threats under it (bunny transformation thing). sometimes getting there triggers enemies to spawn. there are a lot of things that can be (and were) done. actively rummaging is also different from simply "go into first person. look up. shoot.".
>>740903120>What the fuck is wrong with auto jump?because its not even a skill. its spectacle. more than that, its the ILLUSION of threat and grandeur, and dipshits like you slurp it up and praise it like its some amazing thing.
>>740919276>i dont know what you are trying to imply the video didn't talk about themin my post i already outlined that the combat is more than arin can personally overcome without serious trouble.>and yes I didn't watch the videoamazing, I'm shocked. it's like you thought I wasn't going to bother replying. go rewatch the video. try not to do 8 things at once while doing so zoom zoom
>>740903786see >>740918915its not the repeal you think it is.>Every single point he made in the video was also discarded once he actually played it playing badly doesnt make what he said untrue. you have no argument.
>>740905736>aged remarkably well>lists laughably overrated PC slop like Half-LifeThere’s a reason Half-Life has been dead for 20 years while Zelda is still going strong.
>>740919503Wanna try making a point instead of posting shitty videos that say literally nothing? It's not like I expect much from zelda normalfaggots but at least try, I even had good enough will to watch and comment on your shitty video so try to be reciprocal with your posts.
>>740904020>Genuinely, what is the argument? that oot has massive problems and isnt really that good. and it CERTAINLY isnt "best game ever made" or any of that retarded shit. oot aged like milk.
>>740919589you didn't watch it though and proved it right after I asked you to do the opposite of proved you didn't watch it. The only way I could respect you less is if you where a tripniggernow get off my lawn.
I think zoomers should all die
>>740919642Why are you even bothering to lie about me not watching it when I obviously did? Being a bad faith faggot just goes to show how pointless and superficial you really are, just a waste of time.
>>740919687because you obviously didn't watch the video. >describe the water temple if you beat it>ooooh it has WAAAATERRRR, there chud, i described your poopy dungeon!!!!t. (((you)))
>>740905995>All of his examples of "bad game design" absolutely hinge on him being dogshit at the gamethey dont. there are literally 2 things in the entire video (thing out of nowhere, and impatience to do errands to open gates) that are his personal problems. everything is 100% objective observation that applies to everyone. if you cant understand that, then you're dumber than he is.
>>740896260Literally who?
>>740906285you're wrong on everything, and i've already made posts for every point. but this on was particularly funny for being so wrong>No Zelda game has ever naturally mixed combat and puzzlesbeamos. pirogusu.pengators.baris.there are so many rooms that require navigation and/or contain some secret to find that include these enemies. "puzzle" not quite so much, but its still very distinct from simply "beat these lizal/stalfos in this room thats just for them" and then threatless navigation in the next room. >Most puzzles in OoT, such as eye switches and jumping around, are carried over wholesale from ALttPalso, there is a massive difference between doing what was mentioned above with threats and enemies, and "enter room. there is nothing. look up, shoot eye, door opens, next room."
>>740912770>>740917683they arent opinions. they're objective observations. playing badly doesnt change truth.
>>740914878>the "waiting complaint" is nonsenseit isnt. enemies dancing around doing nothing more than the putty men in power rangers is not ok.>combat should be cyclicalhaving an ebb and flow of combat is fine. just standing there for multiple seconds because you're not allowed to be proactive is not fine. >just use items!literally takes just as long to swap items around. there is no reason that your primary means of attack should be so worthless.
>>740919420>>740920584go to bed arin
this is really arin isn't it. I cant even imagine the level of brain dead impatience this kind of neurological disorder is caused by. >NOO IT TAKES TO LONG!!!! I WILL NEVER EVER PRESS PAUSE!!!! SEE GAMERS, THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT!? HAVING TO PRESS THE PAUSE BUTTON IN A FIGHT TO CHANGE EQUIPMENT!? *Dies and goes back to the start of the dungeon.*
>>740917372>i watched somebody play a game poorly>that means that the game is good, actually.incredible stuff.
>>740918373You had me until the sencond half
>>740896260i think ocarina and majora's "auto jump" off ledges was geniusjump buttons are gay and don't belong in zelda, I couldn't stay the retarded little hop you could do in botw
>>740918373>>740920752didnt jesus literally mock the dogmatic adherence to the sabbath during life? I cant think of a single organized church that doesn't spit on christs message every day. As a gaythiest I often feel obligated to support him just because no one else really will.
>>740918867lufia 2 dungeons objectively kick the shit out of most zelda games, especially oot. you also clearly dont even understand how oot dungeons are slow and bad.
>>740920683>this is really arin isn't it.No. OP has been making this thread for years because he said he likes people shitting on Arin. Arin is fucking retarded, but OP is pathetic. The world would be better off not even acknowledging those stupid game opinions.
>>740920908those aren't a description of the video, however, I have only played the gameboy lufia so I have no idea why lufias dungeons are any good. given the state of that game I really doubt they can be good but you never know.>>740920957maybe its an LLM then? but why? this is much better than the usual jeet powered fake consolewar threads.
>>740921049i dont give a fuck about your retarded video.
>>740921049>this is much better than the usual jeet powered fake consolewar threadsIt really isn't because it's the same regurgitated shit every time. People posting webms, videos, and other proof of Arin being flat out wrong and generally ignorant when it comes to games and people taking his side because it's funny to bait.
>>740896260This video has turned out just like the RLM Star Wars prequels videos. Over time we've all come to realize that yes, those games and movies actually are good, and far superior to the absolute garbage both series are shitting out today.
>>740921162>proof of Arin being flat out wrongliterally none of that to be found though. just people mad that a retard like him could be so right and accurate about their precious golden goose. people anchor their entire childhood to oot, and it makes them RAGE when somebody criticizes it (especially when its accurate). thats why the best they can ever do is either lie/deny, or desperately try to deflect with "but look at how badly he played it!" as if it magically undoes the truth that was spoken.
>>740913098>>740920447Why should I listen to the opinion of someone that has shown himself to be a bad critic and bad at 3D games that 8 year olds can beat? Objectively speaking, I should ignore that retard hence Arin's opinions are worthless.
>>740921318Yeah, see, you'd be the latter half of my post.
>>740896260Then he did a YouTube Let's Play and outed himself as a fucking retard who can't play the game lmao. I beat this game when I was 8 years old and this nigger couldn't figure it out in his 40s. Retro-boomer addled brain cannot comprehend more than 2 dimensions.
>>740921370>he's just trolling/baiting!desperate cope.
>the guy who needed to use GameFaqs to get off of Outset Island at the beginning of Wind Waker
>>740921353they arent opinions.
What's the point of pretending?Yeah, I'm talking to you. I know you're lurking.
>>740908409And it's culturally irrelevant and has been since the mid 2000s. Most 3D action games to this day follow the spreadsheet of either ALttP or OoT (depending if they isometric>>740921437What the actual fuck? That is amazingly retarded.>>740921469You're right. They're the opinions of a retard, so even less meaningful than most opinions.
>>740921605>What the actual fuck? That is amazingly retarded.4 episodes just to get to the Forsaken Fortress.
>>740921678Hopefully 10 minute episodes and not 30+ minute episodes, right? That's still a long time but reasonable enough to do that shit in 40 minutes.
>>740921162but its not propping anything up, its not a institution that is kept in business by millions of jeet astroturfing, its just a boring conversation. therefore its better.
>>740921762they spend the time doing voice acting and wise cracking but i genuinely dont remember. either way arin is a retard so no surprise.
>>740921804>its not propping anything upIt's propping up disingenuous people. Like you.
>>740896260>link to the past>hit switch, door opens>3d zelda>hit switch, game takes away control, slow camera pan to locked door, slow animation of door unlocking, long pause of unlocked door as puzzle jingle plays, slow camera pan back to link, companion pops out to tell you the door opened i wish i had the wind waker webm on me.
>>740896260Why were millenials obsessed with this idiot?
>>740921859That is fucking crazy. It's so amazing how a lot of millennial Internet stars are so retarded they can't even do shit a 5 year old could. Forsaken Fortress is a bit confusing at first and I could see someone using a walkthrough for that, but the first island is literally learn the mechanics and progress the plot in like 15-20 minutes. How did anyone take this niggerfaggot (literally) seriously
>>740921605>enemies approaching you and doing nothing is an opinion>enemies negating your sword (your primary offensive tool) during this time is an opinion>swapping to item takes just as long as it does to just wait your turn is just an opinion>an empty room with an eye to shoot is neither a puzzle nor a challenge is just an opinion>treasure chests taking longer than before is just an opinion>combat and threats being distinctly separate now when they used to be integrated into exploration is just an opinioncongratulations, you're even dumber than arin.
>>740921869>but thats just an opinion!
>>740922021I'm not if I beat OoT as an 8 year old child and found very good solutions to all the main quests and most side quests to nearly 100% it . There's a very good reason why I used that age. Imagine being 20-something and being unable to beat a game literally made for kids. That's why everything he says and your defenses of him ring hollow: he can't beat a game 99% of 10+ year old kids could beat in a couple weeks at most.
>>740921437>>740921605>starts walking to the ladder>hehe funny voice>LOLno really, he stops and forgets because Dan had to do a HILARIOUS bit
>>740922156*40 something now. That's even worse honestly.>>740922167I'm just glad that faggot is irrelevant now honestly.
>>740921869>link to the past>boring, drawn out intro to establish le lore, slow tutorial segment, game flat out marks every single dungeon on your map>Zelda 1>none of that gay hand-holding
>>740921861im genuine always though
>>740896364lttp is a bottom 5 zelda.
>>740920873The bible has tons of shit in it that I actually respect, but actual Christians seems to not give a fuck and are almost all super normies who copy their moral sense from each other but claim to be really religious.
>>740896260In the actual medical sense is Arin Hansen autistic? He has such a strange grasp on 3D games, not just OoT.
>>740900485Based vidya chadKeep it up>>740914435Cringe eceleb troonYWNBAW
>>740922660>He has such a strange grasp on 3D gamesYou mean he doesn't have a grasp. He got filtered by Naughty Bear's tutorial where after deliberately ignoring instructions he had no idea what to do, but refused to try anything and instead bitched about bad game design. And the instructions were still on screen.
>>740896260>all because he didn't know how to play the gamehttps://youtu.be/fJg3HP36FrM?si=SXwF18meSocuMY3_
>>740922156>all of these issues are about being able to beat the game or notwow, you just keep getting dumber and dumber.
>>740922660I think he's genuinely illiterate. Ocarina of Time handholds you a lot to make sure what happens to Arin isn't the norm and goes to great lengths to explain its mechanics. He literally is so ADHD he can't read like 2 sentences or a paragraph and get the general gist of what's being said or he is actually illiterate (functionally or actually). He is high school dropout afterall.>>740922878You know, projecting is a part of the coping process.
>>740896260The problem being so many people have played it and know those issues are minor unless you have giga-ADHD
>>740923026yes, im aware that you're just coping. thats why you've been saying nothing but objective and provable falsehoods in response. you have no actual rebuttal or argument. just absurd cope.
>>740923161Nice projection, you got going on homo.>>740923074Pretty much. It's not a perfect game but you can very easily beat most of the game if you are paying attention to what you are doing. Arin has a crippling case of ADHD to find any of dungeons (barring the Water dungeon which isn't difficult per se, but requires more thought than the other ones) hard.
>>740923340>you're just, uh, projecting! yeah, thats it, projecting!meanwhile you still fail to differentiate between facts and opinions, and think that the criticisms have anything to do with being able to beat the game or not.you lost, got raped and gaped, and are now just trolling.really not beating the zealot allegations with behavior like that
>>740923506UHOH ARIN'S HAVING A MELTY. Come back and finish OoT when you get a college degree. Maybe then you'll be worthy to take the throne of all the people who beat OoT, including 8 year old me and all the other prepubecent children that could read paragraphs without losing focus.
>>740923578i can barely do either and I'm still able to complete oot
>no argumenti accept your concession
>>740923740>Can't even respond to meI save arguments for people who aren't massive pussies. So people not like you. Now get dabbed on and never return.
>>740896260I understand a lot of these complaints, but you can't remove a game from the context it released in. OoT is very flawed by today's standards, but it was a revolutionary game at the time for what it accomplished. It's the same reason I think a remake of OoT is so stupid, the game nowadays is just "a pretty damn good Zelda" game. It's not groundbreaking anymore, they'd have to change so much and I'm afraid they'll turn it into BotW or TotK.
Why did jontron stop making funny gaming videos?
>>740923961>and I'm afraid they'll turn it into BotW or TotK.I hope so. Hyrule Field is too small, I want it to be 500 times bigger.
>>740924016
>>740924016More content would be nice, I just don't want them to fill Hyrule Field and the world with useless and boring shrine-like things. There's a difference between improving Hyrule Field and adding a bunch of useless filler to it. I also worry they'll massively change the dungeons or progression to fit the BotW and TotK philosophy.
>>740923961"good at the time" is not an argument or an excuse.
>>740923961good games don't age, and the idea of OoT being this massive influential thing is a post-hoc narrative since no one can even name any "OoT-like" games like you can with Doomlikes, Starcraft clones and other genre spawners
>>740896260Yeah I agreed with a decent amount of his critiques but he presents his entire argument like an annoying faggot, uses his own personal failings along with his pet peeves as a universal truth, and acts like because he doesn't personally get the appeal of OoT that it's crazy others would. So fuck him.You can have the best arguments in the world but if can't communicate them, they're not going to get anyone on your side who didn't already agree with you.
>>740896364Absolute trvthnvkeOOT is true uncslop, boring, empty, hand-holding trash
>>740922726Stop replying to yourself, pignoy.Don't address yourself in 3rd person, pignoy.
>>740909624My first time in this flame war. Your post was a total loser cope post, and you should feel bad.
>>740915087>>740915276I still remember kettle playing this and realize sage is just a delocalization of wiseman
>>740922815tl;dw
>>740896260>keeps assblasting autistic zelda and sonic fans after so many years over some silly videos>man just enjoys life doing voices, music and playing vidyabased funny grump
So is arin still friends with oney or what
>>740917683>Nobody should listen to anyone's opinion on a game if they are straight dogshit at it.This doesnt happen enough. Some people still listen to what Yahtzee has to say.
>>740918296This
>>740896364>1 minute apartdamn son you have some fast handsyou're right btw
>>740915042I'll always love that clip of Arin seething over losing his Sonic ambassador gig to Korone
>>740931536I haven't seen that.
>>740931654https://youtu.be/-LYDGypiBoMThe part part where he talks about being mad he doesn't get invited to Sonic stuff anymore starts at 2:30
>>740896260Arin has proven on his channel that he has zero spatial awareness so if it's not on screen it simply does not exist to him
Fucking hell. No idea Egoraptor could still make /v/ seethe and sneed this hard.
>>740932212Go back to bed arin
>>740896364OoTbros...i don't feel so good...
>>740896260Truthnuke
>>740896260>The above problem with the combat is part of a larger trend where the 3D games increasingly put an emphasis on visual spectacle (e.g, slow opening treasure chests) which made the series more and more like a passive theme park ride than an exploratory adventure or monster slaying game. This culminated in the shitfest that was Skyward Sword.This also plagues action games (stellar blade)Holy based video. Based
>>740905931>>740916051Holy filtered, please read a book and you'll see how Xenogears mogs all your favorite games. Also Evangelion is shit and an Ideon ripoff.>>740906460Fuck larpers, it's an actual masterpiece that filters midwits. Calling disc 2 a VN is peak larping
>>740903020I agree that ALTTP sprites aren't the best display of graphics on the SNES. And yes Minish's Cap has the greatest sprite work of 2D Zelda games.But to say it's bad is a massive exaggeration.It's a solid 7/10.Ocarina of Time graphics on the other hand are an optimal 2/10
I don't even care because I think LttP was better too but this video was a hoot back when it came out because that faggot had such an inflated ego over becoming internet famous that it was satisfying to see him get so analflustered over getting called out on something.
>>740903786YOU CANT SAY NIGGA!
>>740896260What did Egoraptor do to piss people off so much? I get the impression both the left and right hate him these days.
>>740905995>and was clearly stillnbeyond bitter he never understood the mass appeal and universal acclaim of Ocarina of Time.15 frames per second gameplay?
>>740934461He is good at burning bridges
>>740915289Why would he? Nintendo finally has a chance to make an overrated game actually well ratedIf Nintendo change things from the original it's pure proof that they somehow agree that it's not good, making Arin right in the end since he wanted changes.The only way to make him seethe is if the game only gets a graphics overhaul and the gameplay foundations are exactly the same as it was on the 3DS remaster or 1998 original(extremely unlikely)
>>740934773>they somehow agree that it's not goodsomeway*
>>740896260people make fun of him because he's an annoying faggot and is clear that he's a retard who got filtered by the game but yes, 2D Zelda is better and a lot of his complaints like the game having too many filler dialogue, too much waiting and handholding are completely valid
>>740934461I liked him until these sequelitis videos gave me the impression that he felt he was some kind of authority on this kind of thing. I dunno they all just felt really smarmy even if I agreed with some of his points. I don't hate the guy or anything but I definitely stopped paying any attention to him after those videos.
>>740896260>>740896364Oot is 3D which is superior to 2D
>>740934019>egoraptor>has an egogee you dont say?
For me it's ninomae ina'nis
>>740921239Both RLM and Arin were right.
>>740917683>>740921239What arguments do you have against anything that Arin or RLM said you retard? You don't have any. Both sets of videos are completely correct and irrefutable unless you're some partisan manchild that's desperate to defend every piece of bad game design (Which you are). I'm sorry you couldn't see the very obvious problems with this game.
>tfw I will never own anyone as much as Egoraptor owned himself during his OoT and MM game grumps playthroughs>The absolute beauty and character of his mind in the This Is How You Don't PlayIt's bad, manIt's a case study
>>740934461He's very opinionated but with an authoritative/objective tone and was popular enough that a lot of people would just parrot his takes making it extra annoying. A lot of his opinions aren't even that far off of someone like Mathew Matosis but Mathew is good at trying to look at the merits of how something is and not just how he would prefer it and he will try to engage with counterfactuals positively and negatively both for his preferences and how a game executes something.
>>740922580Why are you trying to derail this thread with your samefagging?
>>740939905This is the same overly complicated cope spiel that anyone gives about a YouTube critic that insults something they like. Arin was correct. Him being shit at the game doesn't change that. All of his criticisms were well argued and had good backing, and were ultimately proven right given the shit show that the series is now by focusing on all the things he thought was wrong with OOT and it even applies nowadays to a lot of modern 3D games.
>>740896260Then you watch his OOT playthrough and realize he's a fucking retard who sucks ass at vidya.
>>740896260based thread>>740896364fpbp. it's the same thing with 3D metroid slop compared to 2D
>>740940862Him being bad at the game doesn't make him wrong. All of his criticisms are still correct and hold up. Which is why people have to focus on him being bad rather than actually refuting anything he's said, because they don't have an argument.
>>740896364TRVKEOOT plays like a moviegame, unironically. Genuinely insane how people can hold this trash in high regards, same goes for souls slop btw. Braindead gameplay and "combat" for people who'd rather be lurking on >>>/tv/. Piece of shit game that only influenced the industry in a bad way
>>740940949Not really. All his complaints stem from him sucking ass at the game, and refusing to learn the systems.
>>740896260Why do you fucks give one shit what some fag said some years ago? This isn't just Zelda, this is every fucking game. Who gives a fuck? Make up your own damn minds
>>740940862he sucks ass at interacting with moviegames* not at vidya
>>740939905I personally don't understand the hatred. This guy sounds like a lot of video game reviewers in his era. I'm starting to think people hate this guy solely because he's popular.
>>740941062His points were completely correct and irrefutable unless you're some partisan manchild that's desperate to defend every piece of bad game design (Which you are). I'm sorry you couldn't see the very obvious problems with this game.
>>740941230You are ill
>>740921239>Over time we've all come to realize that yes, those games and movies actually are goodFucking lmao come on now man.
>>740941492https://x.com/angryandtooloud/status/2065223902977286276People genuinely think this.
>>740896260>ecelebsgo back and kill yourself nigger
>>740941176I bet you found "BOMB BOWLING!?" hilarious and thought "yeah maybe this game does suck because of it"
>>740921239>Over time we've all come to realize that yes, those games and movies actually are goodMost people agreed with RLM and didn't care for the prequels until Disney bought Star Wars and paid for a massive revisionism campaign. Shut the fuck up retard.
>>740914578>>740941062A lot of his complaints are very valid, actually.Namely the separation of puzzles and combat. They coexist perfectly in the 2D games, they do not coexist at all in the 3D games.
>>740942232That's completely untrue considering that there was a lot of fanboys upset about the Plinkett reviews back when they first came out.
>>740942389Yes, fanboys. I didn't say everyone agreed. I said most. Only diehard fanboys actually deluded themselves into thinking the prequels were good. They weren't and there wasn't a huge revisionism push until after Disney acquired Star Wars.
>>740942596Kind of impressive how bad they managed to make the sequels that it made people look back fondly on the prequels. Kind of like how modern gaming is so awful that it makes people look back fondly on the dogshit PS360 era.
>>740917683>>740914578>>740904340>>740906079>>740912770If I suck badly at ET or Sonic 2006, does that mean that any criticism I give of the game is suddenly invalid? This is such a retarded argument. You'd never use this as an excuse for any other game. You're just mad because he critiqued your favorite Zelda game.
>>740920873>I cant think of a single organized church that doesn't spit on christs message every dayTrue, every single denomination that doesn't keep the sabbath on saturday is pretty much shitting on the entire bible.
>>740918373Someone has been listening to the dance of life podcast.
>>740896260His criticisms were invalidated when he hated on Skyward Sword.
>>740942985Yes you can hate on something for the wrong reasons
>>740942985>does that mean that any criticism I give of the game is suddenly invalidYes because you're clearly too retarded to play even a shitty game. The same applies to Arin and more than half the shit they played on Grumps.
>>740943343Hating the fact that the game priortizes spectacle with the chest opening shit only to often not give you anything but rupees is a good reason.Hating the combat for basically being nothing but waiting is a good reason.Hating the fact that the combat and puzzles are not mixed together at all, when it worked well in previous games is a good reason. Hating the fact that some puzzles have not aged well at all is a good reason.Hating the fact that the game feels more like a tour of a theme park rather than an exploration combat game is a good reason.
>OP has been samefagging for a day
>>740943545Anon, ET and Sonic 2006 are genuinely unplayable, no matter how "good" you are at them.
>>740943545Bad game design exists regardless of the player's ability to interact with them. You're essentially saying that forcing yourself to get around janky mechanics suddenly makes the gameplay good, when that's not at all the case.
>>740919972Zoomers are lucky to not know who this is
>>740896260>I cannot find a single flaw in any of the above complaintsi found one:>egoraptor
>>740943742Anon, 2012 to 2016 was peak zoomer times. They literally grew up with his videos.
>>740942985>You'd never use this as an excuse for any other game.There are other examples of this I can think of, like the God Hand IGN 3/10 review.
>>740943804My lil bro has no idea who the fuck he is. The cancer of his generation is mrbeast
>Getting your opinions from this guy
>>740896260My favourite part of this video is when he literally admitted to having brain damage by being unable to keep track of moving objects off camera.
>>740943565>valid>proven wrong since every enemy has multiple methods of getting around any wait time; wait time being openings for less experienced players>multiple rooms have enemies in the puzzle rooms, stand out examples include the Forest Temple chessboard, the haunted ship segment in the Shadow Temple, and the Spirit Temple Anubis room>semi-valid as the puzzles are mostly simple, but some did take advantage of 3D; ALttP mainly featured block pushing tooThe last one is just bias. Someone could use it to criticize ALttP compared to Zelda 1 and it would be equally retarded. I await you going "nuh uh" and making another post saying his points were never disputed in the thread because it must be so fun for you.
>>740896260>in defense of zelda souls 2
>>740943910Did you actually ask your brother, and how did your brother earn the right to represent everyone in his age group?
>>740943937>White women fuck dogs>White men do thisWhy do people complain about white genocide again? They do it to themselves.
>>740896260if you've watched arin play any 3d zelda game you know he's not allowed to complain about anything
>>740896364OOT has SOVL
>>740944000>>proven wrong since every enemy has multiple methods of getting around any wait time; wait time being openings for less experienced playersRefuted here. The game is mostly designed around waiting for enemies.>>740916865>multiple rooms have enemies in the puzzle rooms, stand out examples include the Forest Temple chessboard, the haunted ship segment in the Shadow Temple, and the Spirit Temple Anubis roomYes, but they aren't well done is the problem. They aren't as cleanly meshed together and often times they're completely seperated. A few exceptions doesn't disprove the rule.
>>740943635Sonic06 is great if you have the patience to overlook some of its flaws
>>740942329what, you want to fight a stalfos while doing a puzzle?
>>740944072are you paid to do this
>>740944272Nah I just thought it was funny that all of these dumbasses from the same era dress up like women.
>>740944425ok but why did you have to bring up white genocide and bestialitywhat does that have to do with crossdressing
>>740944091The wait time is there for players who aren't good at the relatively simplistic combat. You don't have to wait for Wolfos, Stalfos, Iron Knuckles, Lizalfos, etc.
>>740944481They just can't beat the allegations is all I'm sayin. It's not that deep.
>>740944558I wonder what allegations exist about your people. Care to share?
>>740943565aren't ruppes usually in small chests that don't take long to open?
>>740944195Anon, the point is that in A Link to the Past, the puzzles and combat were cleanly put within each other and could be a part of the same location. OOT doesn't do that.
>>740896260>>Camera issues caused by the transition to 3D make a lot of experiences that used to be fun, like fighting keese and dodging obstacles, a chore.this is because he refused to use z-targeting>Most of the time combat isn't engaging because you're just waiting around for the enemy to allow you to kill themthis is true if you try to w+m1 this game, there are hundreds of combat items that you have and if you actually use them it makes fighting actually dynamic
>>740944593Uhhh if it would make you feel better being good at math and having a small penis
>>740944615just explain how you would want a puzzle and combat to be combined in a 3D game since that's a problem apparently
>>740944689I kneel, Bug-sama.
alttp is so ugly like everything is brown or vomit color and every character is brown too
>>740944697Breath of the Wild did it pretty well.
My favorite Zelda game is Spirit Tracks! :)
>>740944783looks great on my TV
Arin's only valid complaint is the canned chest animation. The novelty of the mystery wears off when you realize the first two chests will rarely be the dungeon item. The rest of the video is a painful indicator that he didn't beat Ocarina of Time. No joke, every single idea he pitches exists in the game and each even has variants. Environmental puzzle that affects the whole temple? Forest, fire, water, spirit. Platforming section with a rotating enemy? Dodongo, Jabu-Jabu, fire, water, shadow. It's even funnier that he goes on a rant about the fire temple area being brain dead platforming when during his playthrough he is literally incapable of landing on a giant square or walking up planks.
>>740945171it looks exactly the same
>>740945041>majority of puzzles were in isolated shrines>majority of shrines don't have enemies unless they're combat focused at which point they don't have actual puzzles>divine beasts mainly have malice eyeballs and nothing elsewhy you lyin
>>740896364>All that 90 seconds after thread createdSomebody had their copypasta at the ready.
>>740945746OP probably made the thread just to reply to himself with it
>>740945575>The novelty of the mystery wears off when you realize the first two chests will rarely be the dungeon item.That is a problem, not with the chest animation itself, but with they way those chose to put the map and compass in big chests. Putting them in smaller chests would have preserved the surprise of finding them, making them more satisfying ,as opposed to the way you open big chests and go "oh, another map".
>>740946421You can tell the janny is a gaygrumps fan because this thread is still up.
>>740896260 >thinks that both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are the ugliest games ever created based
>>740947265fuck off op
>zealots are still getting assblasted by this its so silly to anchor your life to something so demonstrably bad. all you have to do is let go and grow up. this behavior isnt healthy, and undoubtedly bleeds into other aspects of your life too.
>>740948461fuck off op
>>740896260Still not refuted
>>740934461>fell for the wokie cult so rightoids rightfully regard him as untrustworthy>leftoids hate him because he doesn't like OoT they're a sensitive purity spiral nintendo cult
>>740950445>>740951510Let the thread die, man.
>>740924257I think it would be delusional to think that they won't cram content into a massive Hyrule field, considering it's an extremely important game to them.
>>740952359It'll be the exact same game with a coat of unreal engine paint like any other of their remakes, dunno what people are expecting especially since it's outsourced.
>>740952547>since it's outsourcedNo it isn't, you just pulled that out of your ass.
>>740900485Yeah, who would wanna talk about any of those people when you could talk about what a flipping MASTERPIECE e33 is, or how we HAVE to buy the next stellar blade to totally OWN the libs!
>>740904865I'd hardly call him a lolcow.
>>740952547pretty much the worst case scenario, because the game needs a massive overhaul to be worth playing modern times.
>>740955747if they fuck it up, it shows that the original is shit. if they completely remake the game and its good, then it shows that the original is shit.
>>740958329It's zelda so it'll sell at full saturation from brand name alone regardless of how good or bad it actually is, it's no different from pokeshit.
>>740896260Didn't he get his fanbase to attack gay guys who hated his homophobic gay dad dating sim?
>>740896260They're not flaws, but design choices.They deliberately made the combat and puzzles easy cause they knew most of their target audience hadn't played 3D games before.There's a lot of complex platforming you can do in SM64, romhacks prove this, but they also deliberately dumbed down the challenge of that and made a lot of stars just "walk to a location" for the same reason.
>>740906839A whole day later and this still hasn't been refuted or addressed.
>>740959641>its not a flaw because we did it on purpose>we made it bad on purpose, so its good actuallyalways with the most insane mental gymnastics.
>>740959737>>740959838
what if game gramps was never funny
Bump
Please live
>>740960402Easy to prove, just go on the archives and find posts from 2012 talking about it.
Bumping
>>740896260His entire video is deconstructed by the "how not to play" video which shows how half of his arguments actually stem from him being fucking terrible at playing the game
>>740960402>>740960506>>740960572>>740960576>>740960639OP...This is really pathetic bro...Is this the mental state of the average OOT hater?
>>740896260Arin had the game sense of a 6 year old. Basically me when I played Wind Waker for the first time.
>22 hours ago
