>>740918005
>euronigger box art
Opinion discarded

>>740918110
I'm talking about the objective, awful game design. It's not an opinion.

>>740918005
This flawed gem deserve a RE style remake treatment

>>740918140
I said, opinion. Discarded.

>>740918005
mad cuz bad

>>740918146
You made me throw up a little. I'm sure there are people who actually believe that.

>>740918005
Let me guess, you've never grovelled and didn't pay attention to the levels.

>>740918146
Kill yourself

>>740918206
I know how to play the game, every time I play it's on level die.
>>740918242
The yo-yoing difficulty is part of the problem, but really I just think the core design itself is bad.

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>>740918110
true, post the original.

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>>740918289
>"I know how to play the game, every time I play it's on level die."
Anon....you do realise that if you are level die it makes you die easy? Again, learn to play the fucking game before you bitch about it.

>>740919586
>learn to play
>play well enough to be on level die
>game becomes pure dogshit
Great game design.

>>740918005
Skill issue. What a faggot you are.

i wish there were more games that let you customize what combos your character could do.

>>740919894
Shitters don't know about rank management. God Hand is the Battle Garegga of Beat 'Em Ups.

>>740922732
Ah, so it's a piece of shit. I get it now.

>every enemy blocks randomly forcing you to play extremely linearly

what does this even mean

how do you play a fucking beat 'em up non-linearly

>Game has multiple difficulties
>They literally do nothing, easy and normal are identical
I genuinely believe Capcom didn't test the game at all. It was tossed together over two weeks and they just shipped what they had for a laugh.

/v/ told me this was a god tier beat em up but it's repetitive as shit and I'd rather play an actual 2D one
80% of the moves are worthless on harder difficulties

God Hand is about aggro management and limiting encounters so Gene fights 1 on 1, because the system doesn't work when you have multiple (3+) enemies fighting you at the same time. Taunting can pull in one enemy at a time, nearly everything can be launched after a guard break, dodge cancelling moves with end lag is a feature not exploit. In situations where you cannot avoid multiple enemies, that is what God Hand power and roulette moves are for.
There are no other games that I can think of except Sekiro that has the same degree of depth to fights that 90% of players will never figure out cause they're too stupid to push any buttons other than Square/R1.

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OP here, i'm sorry. Wrong pic.

>>740922962
TRVKE

>>740922842
I'm pretty sure easy and normal have some health differences beyond capping your rank meter to 2 max.

>>740922649
Keep your eye on Forastero, it's an in-the-works God Hand-like made by one guy. And before you judge based on that premise, watch some gameplay.

>>740918005
it's a pretty cool game but 95% of its fans never actually played it and just learned about it through some youtube video essay slop

>>740922773
>what does this even mean
Every fight is the same interaction, jab jab guardbreak until you guess correctly, dodge if you guessed wrong.

>>740923360
All I'm seeing is fat assed shortstacks with hairy pubes.
keep it coming

>>740922962
This. The best thing you can do is split enemies up and use your crowd control. Kick enemies away, trip them up. Run away and taunt. Abuse iframes of circle action moves.

>>740923289
I'm pretty sure Easy gives you more starting roulette orbs. Hard removes one orb from the shop and enemies have more health.

>>740918005
Dogshit game for posers.

>>740923391
>He doesn't know about enemy states and the interactions of launchers and sweeps

>>740923446
As long as you use the tools the game gives you, it's not a hard game on normal difficulty. Checkpoints are everywhere and you have unlimited continues.
The only thing that trips me up with Great Sensei because he's one of the few enemies that combines attacks that require the precise dodge to avoid damage.

>>740923612
>precise dodge to avoid damage.
Kek. He doesn't know.

>>740922649
Nioh2

>>740925176
Must be a Mork fan.

>>740918005
>guaranteed weekly complain about god hand thread for years

Is it the same guy?

Game is so hard it stops being fun.
someone once told me that you're just meant to retry every sections like 20 times.

>>740927979
I dont see the problem

>>740922842
that's not true i can't beat normal mode

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>>740927979
git gud
>someone once told me that you're just meant to retry every sections like 20 times.
that's the best part

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>>740918005
another normie filtered

>>740918005
Legitimate reasons why this and Viewtiful Joe haven’t received any ports?
How the fuck did Starforce get a port before these two?

>>740918146
I know you're just shitposting but the idea is genuinely repugnant.
>RE engine inertia on every one of Gene's actions
>Enemies not responding to collisions
>Grey, washed out visuals
>All the wacky humor neutered and sanded down
Absolutely revolting.

>>740922649
I heard Remember Me did that. I don't think it did anything else worth noting, however.

>>740918005
Ive got 2 complaints
1. Demons are complete aids to fight especially when you have a group to fight, absolutely unfun movesets
2. Getting hit changes the entire rythm and cadence of the game, lvl die>2 is so different it actually throws you off worse

>>740932513
IIRC Mikami went on record that God Hand was just something he wanted to make during his post-RE4 downtime and that his main motivation for it was being angry about Final Fight Streetwise. It wasn't a passion project so much as it was a heat-of-the-moment crime of passion. Without him around Capcom seems to mostly just not care about it, sadly. Same with Viewtiful Joe except it's with Kamiya instead, though I don't know if it had a similar history.

God hand is the only game where during the last few levels i was raging and calling the game horseshit and i'll never play it again, and then immediately after the awesome credits sequence and returning to the main menu... i started a new game.

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>>740931237
>enemy just stands there doing nothing
epic gameplay lil bro. god hand shitters are so funny

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>>740918005
>Complaining about enemy health then complaining that enemies present you with guard break opportunities to do more damage
Oops, you're dogshit at video games.
Play easy mode instead ya bitch.

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>>740933678
>giving the enemy a chance to do something
skill issue. I put them in their place

>>740919894
>Can't hack the real difficulty for non shitters
>Cries about it
Couldn't be me

>>740923360
Looks like some faggot stole god hand animations from the iso and threw them in his dogshit day 1 unity project with no understanding of how god hand actually plays

I'd say it's going to suck but it's already abandonware

>>740933678
Not a great comparison, honestly. God Hand in many ways much more punishing than NGB. NGB drowns you in healing items and you can pause to use them while in God Hand you just have to hope you can survive until you get a fruit drop. I'm shit at action games but at least I can beat NGB and DMC3 on their normal difficulties but I can't say the same for God Hand, it's very unforgiving.

God Hand has exactly two flaws:
1) it teaches the player nothing and hides context moves in the manual which means most will never understand a fraction of how the game actually works
2) the auto lock-on regularly snaps Gene to the worst possible target which can get you killed on ng hard kick me

>>740933193
Stages 7 and 8 are some horseshit but the finale is fantastic

>>740918146
No, it doesn't, you fucking retard.
This game would be 100% be botched if that were to happen.
The Humor would be thrown out the window

>>740934107
1. Git gud
2. That's true though

No one at Capcom has the skill to remake God Hand
They couldn't do it if they wanted to
They'd fuck it up

>>740934107
just read the manual?

>>740935689
Nta but i never read manuals and never had problems learning how to play the games.

>>740934107
People actually read manuals back in the PS2 era since you paid money for the damn things to be included. That's why so many games of a certain barely have a tutorial or sometimes didn't have one at all, it was assumed you'd read the damn manual that you paid for.

>>740935929
>>740935898
>>740935689
People do not like reading, especially now. You'd think telling someone to go read a single page on Vimm's lair wouldn't be a big ask but too many people these days have the mindset of "I'll just flail on the buttons and figure it out instructions are for shitters"

Then they struggle through the entirety of God Hand never realizing they have a fucking sweep or what the levels even do.

>>740935898
you dont have to read the manual but you cant complain about stuff in the manual not being explained when its in the manual.

there are also plenty of games that have absolutely vital info in them, like la mulana.

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>>740936412
>people do not like reading-
stopped reading there, you're wrong.

>>740936682
Never played that.
What's vital info on that?

>>740933948
God Hand is easier even on kms

>>740918369
Kek

>>740937428
On normal? Yeah, sure, muddling through on level 1 isn't hard.
On hard? Lol you're fucking delusional m8.

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>>740919894

You just don’t over commit to a big strike unless you do a guard break.

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>>740937595
I remember the first time I started a new game on Hard mode right after beating it on normal, never been outskilled by a game that hard since. Fun times.

>>740938197
It really is like playing an entirely different game. The difference in enemy aggression and even attack animation speed is insane. There's so little margin for error.

>>740938027
depends, once you know the counterhit/timing windows you can afford to be a lot braver.
It's also generally pretty hard to over-commit in God Hand since nearly everything can be dodge canceled.

>>740933678
>fishing for counter attacks into UTs into shuriken juggling the last remaining guy into swallow
Yep, that's every NG1 encounter ever.

>>740918005
Tell me an enemy you have a problem with and I'll tell you how to fuck them up.

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Talk about an actually good game.

>>740935342
Looking at the absolute state of Onimusha, that much is obvious.
GH doesn't need a demake it needs a recompilation.

>>740940179
There's a decomp project in very early stages (like less than 3% matched) but even if that gets finished and rebuilt into a halfway-decent PC port the things people tend to ask for (like 60fps) just won't work even with the source available.

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>>740935342
No one in the current gaming industry has the titanium balls to dedicate the entire right stick solely to dodging.

>>740918369
I laughed and farted

>>740933783
Notice how it's the same exact moves over and over again. Absolute garbage game.

>>740940498
There was a chink game that came out a few months ago that was the closest to god hand i've seen but still not as good, Spirit X Strike

>>740941805
>parry
nah.

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>>740918005
I respect God Hand a lot because unlike most action games, it is not a game you "solve" by learning enemy patterns and practicing combos.

You have to live in the moment, not everything is guaranteed, you have to make "reads"/risks for bigger rewards. Falling into a pattern gets you killed. This is why enemies can randomlyjump out of juggles, this is why they can randomly dodge your attacks, this is why they can randomly block and not only that but on lvl DIE elites block so fast that it's not possible to react and punish with a guard break.

No other action game is like this. The closest equivalent is Ninja Gaiden but that has a ton of obvious flaws that allow the games to be broken. No other game has the balls that God Hand does that almost makes it feel like a 3rd person fighting game/brawler fusion

>>740918005
>>every enemy has two billion hit points
incorrect
>>you have two
incorrect
>>every enemy blocks randomly forcing you to play extremely linearly
incorrect

>>740942785
That's a TAS by the way, nobody actually plays the game like that. Same with any webm that might make the game look actually fun.

>>740933783
I like God Hand, but these webms you "show off" with make the game look like shit because you're just fishing guard breaks and then doing kick wall bounce loops to ignore 90% of the mechanics and moveset and cheese the bosses.

>>740942949
90% of the mechanics are completely useless. You're looking at actual optimized gameplay for this slop.

>>740940179
Nah, a remake with better levels and enemies that don't run purely on flow chart logic and with less iframe dodge abuse and more focus on combos and crowd control moves would be great.

>>740940498
Dishwasher Dead Samurai

*Mic dropperinoes*

>Durr I said current
Idgaf. You're not special.

>>740942861
I'd believe it's TAS just by how he dodges the fatman at the most convenient time then does the invincible flip kick the second time

But that doesn't take away from what I said. God Hand is a very proactive and reactive game where you can't rely on guaranteed punishes or combos or w/e. You have to make guesses and you have to be prepared for when your guess doesn't work. This makes the game feel absurdly hard but also feel extremely rewarding when you do beat it.

>>740943252
>You have to make guesses and you have to be prepared for when your guess doesn't work.
No other game does this because it's terrible.

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>>740942949
>You're ignoring 90% of the mechanics and moveset!
No, you just literally don't know what the mechanics of the game are. There's tons of shit going on in that webm that you simply can't see because you don't understand the game. You think it's a combo juggle game when it's a game of stuffing, spacing, counterhits, and reactions. The game is specifically built to NOT let you do big dumb juggle combos.

If that's what you're looking for go play DMC again. It's a great series.

>>740943115
If I had a million dollars I'd buy you love. Nigger

>>740943252
>>740942785
>>740942861
while most of that webm is just a guy getting carried by half moon kick 6 stages before it's normally available, psychically reacting to the random backflips with a dash and ALK is 100% save state shit

>>740943429
>buy
ngmi

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>>740943419
>Nerd thinks he can talk shit from his little walled garden
Lele. Nah.

>>740943419
Literally the least fun webm ever recorded. People genuinely pretend to like this game because of memes, there's no way anyone unironically enjoys that absolute garbage.

>>740943383
You're bitch made. Go back to dork souls

>>740943582
You will own nothing

>>740933783
>>740943419
Nice play, anon. I struggle with Twins just on Normal Die. Looks like all you really need to do is lame them out, don't over commit and fish for counterhit?

>>740942861
That isn't TAS half moon kick is just a completely overpowered move that both dodges high AND launches at above head height at the same time. Every time he does it in that webm he's immediately invalidating nearly every attack those enemies can do because of its ridiculous high dodge i-frames. People always take about yes m'am kablaam and high side kick dodge cancels when they talk about cheesing this game but nothing is as busted as Half Moon Kick. You can recreate 90% of that webm just hitting shit with Half Moon Kick and then following up with one of your above-head innate moves.

>>740943419
I always appreciate you, anon with the 20 challenge playthroughs. You're based and your very existence makes faggots seethe.

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>>740943753
incorrect.

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God Hand and Urban Reign were the two action games that I can confidently say drove me nuts to get good at but are extremely fun

>>740943542
>psychically reacting to the random backflips with a dash and ALK
It isn't a reaction you just go for it. Obviously when the guy uploads his style videos to youtube he only includes the times when it works but if you watch his full playthroughs you see it not work all the time.

So how fast can you robots beat God Hand? 5 days of mashing in Level 1 pretending you're a YouTuber probably.

>>740922857
2d beat em ups are just as if not more repetitive. I say that as someone who started getting into them about a year ago. That doesn't stop them from being fun because a lot of the skill in a beat em up is being able to quickly assess the situation and react accordingly, otherwise it's easy to get overwhelmed and die and this is pretty much exactly the same in God Hand but with enemies that have more than one attack and not being able to use grabs as an easy way to crowd control

>>740922962
>There are no other games that I can think of except Sekiro
You're right about God Hand but combat in Sekiro is both simple and it lets you run past far too many encounters to begin with.

>>740943753
PC gaming is soulless

>>740918146
>I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH WHICH IS WHY THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT
Actually die. They only have to port it.

>>740943801
The Twins will fuck you sideways if you try to fight them at the same time, especially with their fucked up delayed dive kick. You can punish a dive kick with a quick uppercut, duck cancel, high side kick to knock them away for a chance to fight 1v1. You can also back up and poke with side kicks to fish for a counterhit launch against their butt attack. Also if you do punch one of them they'll do their close-range combo (three slaps for gold, the standard flurry for silver) which have pretty wide counterhit windows for a high side kick.

Of course while doing this you have to constantly watch out that you don't get fucked by the other twin while you're trying to punish, get greedy and you're done for.

In those short bits of 1v1 time you get you're looking for a guard break to start the wall kicks and watching the radar to see when you've got to abandon the wall kicks and go back to defense or 1v1. Sidestepping to turn kicks the target away and either knocks them into the person approaching or at least gives you some time to fight them and keep going back and forth with 1v1 fights.

The only saving grace for God Hand is it was too niche to ever get a demake.

>>740944324
>too niche
*too shitty

I do love God Hand but I think the way guard break works is probably its biggest flaw and having to fish for guard breaks constantly on DIE is the least fun part of the game. I'm not sure how exactly it should be instead, but if any mechanic in the game could use some work, that's probably the one.

God Hand Retards infected by the same Crinja Gaiden reddit virus.

>>740922962
phenomenal bait, props anon

>>740923360
lol you have to be the dev or the devs friend to bring this game up. It is very clearly stealing god hand assets and bringing nothing to the table, spigger definitely doesn't even understand what makes god hand good.

kys

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>>740944070
my current best ng hard kick me sign

>>740934987
People said the same thing when capcom reveal re 2 remake yet all modern REmake(except 3) made original obsolete

>>740944386
They're like Bubbles from Powerpuff girls. Well meaning but not very bright.

>>740944523
>what makes god hand good
Nothing. People just pretend to like it.

>>740918005
Filtered

>>740935342
Kamiya would make a better godhand game

>>740939578
hood classic

>>740918146
Actually no, please no. They'd ruin it.

>>740918005
only real beef I have with the game is that the dynamic difficulty doesn't ramp very well. 1 and 2 are very similar in how they play, but you hit 3 and you need to change up how you handle positioning and enemy herding entirely because they can now be aggressive off screen. makes breaking into the higher difficulties much harder because 1 and 2 are pretty shallow curve difficulty wise, with 3 being a huge spike that asks you to relearn how to play the game basically. And because you can't just lock the game in level 3, if you're struggling to break through that threshold you'll be constantly pingponging between too easy and getting your ass kicked.

>>740944581
I can do it. Just need to infiltrate capcom and Kamiya can be my mentor

>>740933678
God I miss level 1/2 UTs not being a stupid long 10 second animation

>>740935342
Mikami made re4 yet re4remake is a better game and made completely by different devs

>>740933836
>>giving the enemy a chance to do something
That's how God Hand works though, enemies will literally jump out of combos or even input read and dodge your attacks.

you're a poser, go back to dmc lil bro

>>740944527
Why do you fags ALWAYS post inorganic perfect results screens. Like yeah dude I totally believe you didn't save state the game every 5 steps.

>>740944870
If they showed actual gameplay it would make the game look terrible (which it is).

>>740944870
Nigga what do you want me to do, record the entire session for you?
Ask me about a hard section, I'll tell you how to beat it.
That time isn't even good, actual speedruns do that category in under two hours.

>>740944910
Bayonetta fans do it. DMC fans do it. Ninja Gaiden fans might be the only ones who never ever posted Results Screens and just yap 20 pages about combos or some lame nerd shit.

>>740944993
Report card faggotry is only relevant in Hackmiya's games. And in Shit Hand.

>>740943115
GOD HAND IS LITERALLY NOT A FLOW CHART GAME.

You have not played the game. Go ahead and boot up a mid to late game stage and show a completed run of doing an exact flow chart. No deviations. Go ahead anon, i'll wait. Doesn't even have to be your own gameplay if you can find someones online where they literally do the exact same thing every time vs enemies and it works. Go ahead, a full stage end to end. The issue with every OTHER action game is that it falls into flow chart gameplay. Ninja Gaiden is the ONLY other example where enemies aren't always flow chart but again it gets ruined by how OP UT is in every iteration of the game except NG3RE which has it's own specific issues

>>740945087
And Metal Gear Rising. And Hi-Fi Rush. And Character-Action games in general like Sonic.

>>740944279
I'll keep this in mind for my next run, thanks anon. I really need to just setup multiple saves as a go through the game so I can go back and practice other sections.

>>740918110
what you're thinking of was never boxart but promotional material you turbo eternal summerfag

>>740944827
>moving the goal now
kek

>>740945126
>The issue with every OTHER action game is that it falls into flow chart gameplay.
Generally a game working and not being a retarded RNG fest where you spam the same safe moves over and over until you guess correctly is a good thing. Considering God Hand is a massive pile of shit, it's no exception to this rule.

>>740945338
Aquire Psychic Proficiency

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Ahem.

Fuck the Mad Midget 5.

That is all.

>>740944345
>I want to be able to react and get a guaranteed guard break every time
You misunderstand the game. If you want a baby version of this then play NG4 where enemies block, flash white, and make a distinct clash sound and you can use any devil trigger move to guard break them. It's so boring cuz it's easy to react to after you played enough

>>740934873
The finale up to azel*

>>740945646
Pure cancer in gaming form.

>>740945275
what goal post retard? i'm nta, i'm responding to a specific thing you said.

>>740944993
Ninja Gaiden fags can't even decide which version of which game is worth playing and which games are good at all. The second they talk about gameplay they get outted as tourists every time.

>>740945651
I didn't say I want to be able to react and get a guard break every time, I just don't want to fish for a guard break on every enemy either. Again, I don't know what the best way around it is, but it doesn't have to be either guards are always completely unreactable or they're always totally reactable. Maybe some more defensive enemies could guard enough that you fish for them while some other enemies could encourage you to try to go for counter hits or something instead. It's not a simple problem to solve because it's such a big part of the game, but I do think it could be better than it is now.

>>740945910
Shit Hand fags have it simple, declare it a masterpiece and post TAS webms. Under no circumstances actually play it. Can't exactly blame them for the second part since the game is fucking dogshit.

>>740946061
Yeah sounds about right

>>740945913
>>740945651
If you download the prototype you can experience what it's like when blocking isn't RNG. Incredibly fucking easy.

Honestly it just sounds like you should avoid level DIE if you don't like having to guard break cancel.

>>740945910
DMCfans only exist in 1 flavor. 3 & 5 redditards who gobble Reuben langdon's nuts.

>>740946165
Yeah also true. I agree with all these btw. Action genre is plagued with fags in general.

>>740946136
>If you download the prototype you can experience what it's like when blocking isn't RNG. Incredibly fucking easy.
So making everything into a guessing game was a last minute fix? What a piece of shit. Flawed at every stage of development.

>>740945913
I'll agree if God Hand had more time in the kitchen, it probably would have had more enemies that break the mold of being susceptible to guard break into launcher and generally more ways to beat specific enemies.

>>740946165
Not true. You have 4 combotroons who STILL bitch about inertia being removed from 5 as if it was some core mechanic that they HAD to include. Also DMC1 purists because it's the only game with an actual good DMD and mission scoring system.

>>740946136
I already said I don't want to be able to get a guard break with ease everytime, and I also said it's fine for there to be some degree of fishing for guard breaks. You're imagining and arguing against a completely different point than anything I said - what I did say is that fishing for guard breaks at all times is one of the weaker parts of the game and it feels like the mechanic could use work, not that I want a big flashing sign every time I need to guard break so I can get it every time. There's room for design decisions in between 'It's always random so you always have to fish for it' and 'It's easy and consistent so you'll get it every time with no problem'

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>>740946231
>WAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAH WHY CAN'T I JUST PATTERN RECOGNIZE AND WIN!!! WHY IS THIS GAME DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!!!

>>740946416
>different
It's just shit. Gambling until you get a win is awful game design.

>>740945910
All mainlines are unironically worth playing and are fantastic (except non RE 3)

>>740946506
You ever realize that if you dislike a game you're inherently wrong. Yaiba is kino.

>>740946506
2 is pretty bad. I'll give it credit for trying to do something different and I guess I appreciate it in that sense but it is press Y to awesome: the game

>>740946402
>there's a space between guards being random or deterministic!
...No, no there isn't. By definition.

What you're complaining about is a confluence of systems - the fact that fast startup to stuff attacks is rewarded like in a fighting game, the fact that blocks on level DIE are frequent but random and difficult to react to (not impossible), and the fact that guard breaking is one of the only ways to reliably do big damage or control the field.
Changing any one of these systems in itself is a bad idea because the interactions with the other systems break, changing all of them results in an entirely different game.

Again - avoid DIE if you want to be reacting to guards and not dodge cancelling anticipatory guard breaks.

Also there ARE enemies that don't block at all and require a different approach - Trident demons, the entire midget type, Dr Ion 1/2, and all 4 true demon forms.

>>740946763
Nu-Doom & NG2 are the same genre of Spectacle Fighter?

>>740946789
>difficult to react to (not impossible)
They're literally not possible to react to.

>>740946705
I haven't played yaiba but visually it looks disgusting so I just avoid it.

>>740946763
It's pretty cool but I do prefer 1 and RE

>>740946763
>>740946506
>>740945910
The NGB is a classic and a masterpiece
NG2 was always mid as fuck. I hated the entire idea of delimb executions. Slows the game to a fucking crawl and incentivizes the lamest tactics. Popcorn game. Disposable.
NG3 is like a 20 dollar knockoff game

>>740946891
You're not gangster enough boy.

>>740946915
Replaying NGB is a chore, I like the smaller mission structure of 2 onwards. RE is probably the most fun replayable one thanks to trials and other characters

>>740918005
skill issue, I beat this game when I was 13

>>740946915
NGB is a Souped-Up Ocarina of Time. It's cool if you just want an adventure game.

>>740946506
3RE>2=4>1
imo though they're all fun

>>740946789
>Changing any one of these systems in itself is a bad idea because the interactions with the other systems break
Which is why I said it's not a simple problem. It doesn't mean that the only two possible solutions are for it to be what it is now or for guard breaks to be superfluous. Enemies like midgets are just proof that it doesn't have to be exactly the way it is right now without breaking the whole game, and they're good additions to the game because of it. There's no reason the same logic that saw fit to have an enemy like midgets in the game can't be extended to other parts of the game - maybe there could be enemies you can't guard break and your expected to sidestep an attack and they can be in counterhit state during their recovery or something instead. On the other hand, maybe that would suck, but it's still an idea that could be explored to make you approach individual enemies and opening them up in a way that's different from just guard breaking them.

I'm not suggesting that it's a simple solution to solve, or I'm sure they would have. Even some attempts to work around it in the game already, like I would say the Trident Demons are, aren't ideal because I would personally consider the Trident Demons fairly boring, but it's silly to suggest that just because guard breaks are the way they are now it's the only way they could possibly be. I understand it's not a system that exists in a vacuum but that doesn't mean it's a perfect system either, and it especially doesn't mean that the only alternative system would be one that has the exact opposite problem of what guard breaks currently have.

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>>740947276
>the things that are in the game should be in the game
they...they are?

look brother, I understand your preference here, but there's no getting around that blocking is a fundamental mechanic and something can only either be random or deterministic. It's a binary choice. Well, ternary if you include enemies that don't block, which as we've established already exist in the game.

For the third time the only thing I can tell you is to avoid level DIE if that's not the game you want to play.

>>740947559
You're being deliberately obtuse, or I hope for your sake you are at least, so I won't keep arguing the point past this post, but acting as though the midgets representing something the game could use more of means the game has already ticked the box of having alternatives to fishing for guard breaks doesn't mean the balance between how much you go for guard break and how much you don't is perfect, and couldn't be changed anyway because the systems of the game exist in perfect harmony and are totally immutable. It also doesn't mean that the midgets, Trident Demons, etc. represent the only conceivable alternatives to enemies you have to fish for guard breaks on.

>>740948192
>ok but it's not actually the guard breaking it's the BALANCE of guarding to not guarding enemies
look at those goalposts fucking fly
>bro why NOT just change every system and make a different game?
Can we stop this shit please? You don't like playing level DIE. So don't do it!

>>740947276
I'll get into my own design ideas i've had for a long time.

I really hate deterministic play and pattern recognition. This is a plague of modern game design but it's present in most action games as well, the only thing that "fights" against it is "le stylish" autism which is basically telling players to make their own fun rather than designing and balancing systems and enemies that are naturally rewarding. DMC is the worst of this, obviously, as it gives you a massive toolbox of moves but there isn't as many reasons to use one move over the other outside of the obvious launchers or sometimes a niche used that isn't explicitly explained (like that one cerberus move that makes clash parries really easy). Something like DMC tries to use the "style meter" as a deterrent against repetitive play and I really don't think it actually does it well enough and style/score is not a good enough incentive for most players and even then, the system is still simple enough where you can cycle through 3-5 moves and keep the style meter high.

I'm not talking about God Hand specifically at this point, just general game design, but I think the solution is simple on paper. Enemies actually learn and adapt to what you do. If you repeat certain moves too much, the enemy will dodge and immediately punish that move. Ideally, the player has a robust toolbox to where this doesn't become a problem (realistically god hand doesn't have enough move slots for this to work imo but god hand also doesn't fully utilize every button). I think this is a natural deterrent to repetitive play and instead of having something in the corner tell you you're playing wrong, instead the enemies kill you for playing wrong.

>>740918005
>enemies are... le blocking~!
this is why they turned yakuza into a shitty jrpg

>>740948552
>I really hate pattern recognition
I hate to tell you this, anon, but pattern recognition is basically the entirety of video gaming.
>massive misunderstanding of DMC moves
generally a move either moves you in a direction, moves your enemy in a direction, or both.
>I want enemies to start reading my mind
Play fighting games.

>>740918005
>one of the funnest melee combat systems

in other words, *clears throat*, get good.

I got filtered less by the gameplay and more because I don't want looney toons mixed into my DMC.

>>740945646
based. fuck those little goons

>>740949542
This kind of comment is ironically only made by people who exclusively play at levels 1&2. The game is just not fun unless you're a mashing retard.

>>740949509
>but pattern recognition is basically the entirety of video gaming.
Play beat em ups, play fighting games. Those games are anti-pattern recognition. The complaint the anon had above is that in god hand you can fall into repetitive play of jab jab guard break on lvl die and this can carry you a lot. The entire point is that there should be a system where enemies adapt to what you do and punish you directly, rather than a loose system like DMC where it's very easy to avoid enemies and the only deterrent to repetitive spam is the style meter/score rather than the game not letting you survive if you fall into your own patterns.

There is still a lot of room for the action game genre to improve and part of advancing that gameplay, imo, starts with actual reactive enemies. Not mindless input reading, not being COMPLETELY random, but something that punishes the player for falling into their own patterns. I want enemies that start avoiding attacks that are spammed, I want enemies that start creating new extensions to their attacks after you've dodged a specific move enough times, I want an enemy that will recognize that you've gotten hit by a certain move every time and they start spamming it until you STOP getting hit.

>>740950134
>I want a human opponent
...so play a fighting game

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Asking what my favorite enemy is is like asking what's my favorite traffic cone

>>740945126
I said flow chart enemies, not player action. Learn to read, you stupid fucking monkey.

>>740950232
Why are you being so reductive

>>740943419
>No, you just literally don't know what the mechanics of the game are.
You're ignoring more than 90% of the moveset, and trying to talk up basic game elements like spacing to make it seem like you aren't ignoring mechanics doesn't make you any less wrong. Getting angry and spamming webms where you literally do 2 things repeatedly makes the game look boring.

>>740950536
I'm not being reductive, what you're asking for is just kind of silly. You want something that already exists (fighting games) to supplant an entirely different thing (beat em ups) because they're kind of similar but you prefer one to the other.

I think it's incredibly naive to say that an enemy adapting to what you do and punishing you for the simple act of doing what works is good design, if anything it's a lack of design. A fight in a beat em up is a puzzle to be solved and a solution to be executed. Action and reaction. The kind of system you're talking about would simply be frustrating because, unlike a human, the adaptive AI would not have a real mind to read or condition.

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>>740950686

>>740950862
No, it's not silly. A fighting game is a 1 on 1 fight against humans.
An action game is against multiple enemies at once, AI opponents. There's a clear difference.
>rest of your post
You're right and you're wrong. You act as if an action game is a puzzle to be solved and this is true for MOST action games but you're wrong in thinking this is the ONLY way an action game can work.

My idea at it's core is simple. In most action games, the player wins by recognizing the enemies attacks and being able to defend against them properly via reactions and pattern recognition, then why shouldn't the enemies? Action games are at their most fun and most cool when it actually feels like a real fight, a real back and forth but when enemies act like robots it's not that interesting. That's why a lot of people look at god hand (note I didn't say play) and think the game looks fucking cool because it looks like a real dynamic fight.

For the genre to advance there needs to be real innovation and imo it won't come from the gameplay mechanics or system mechanics like score, it will come from the enemy AI that makes the fights more engaging than ever before. God Hand almost has this idea....but it's obviously incredibly flawed, it's not like the game had a big budget or dev time but I think the concept it's trying to present is the closest we have to the idea of reactive enemies. You say that it wouldn't be fun to fight enemies that punish you but I disagree, again my concept isn't "well the enemies will just randomly punish you for doing moves" my idea is that repeatedly trying to abuse the same moves will have the enemies punish you. You have to constantly change up how you're playing the game or enemies will learn and likewise, I think the enemies too should change up how they play so you truly have to be on your toes instead of knowing that this one enemy is always going to do one of two attacks and that's all there is to him.

>>740933783
alot of enemy health bars are bloated though, azel and angra are the best examples, if i had my way i'd cut azel down by 25% and angra by 50%

>>740936918
If you could hear my laugh, anon. Thanks for that.

>>740951704
>then why shouldn't the enemies?
Because they aren't the player. The game is purposely stacked against them so as to be a fun experience of trial and error and learning. You can't have an even mental battle with a computer, it's a computer.
There's a good reason the kind of thing you're talking about only ever extended to moves becoming stale, but that also only really applies to combo systems and not neutral interactions.

>>740951704
>again my concept isn't "well the enemies will just randomly punish you for doing moves" my idea is that repeatedly trying to abuse the same moves will have the enemies punish you.
nta but this in itself is also easily solved by just figuring out an AI's threshold on when it starts to counter specific moves, pushing that to the limit and pivoting to reset the AI to a different behavior. You want an action game where every enemy is a human opponent, and that just isn't very realistic. the best that's available to you for the feeling of a real back and forth and adapting and learning mid fight is fighting games against a real person.

>>740934107
Not having the manual is no longer a problem. Everyone knows about it by now holy fuck. READ!

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The whole argument here is you want to mash in a fighting game Training Room when these games are Timed setpieces

God Hand bosses are really spongy but it feels necessary so you actually learn their moves and dodge them 5+ times in a successful fight instead of winning off a fluke where they don't use the problem move too many times (ignoring that with optimal combos many bosses can be beaten in one God Hand activation)
Also difficulty really depends on genre and control scheme, I'd rather have to beat a random God Hand boss than a random silksong boss or Call of Duty single player level on veteran

>>740952318
>Not having the manual is no longer a problem. Everyone knows about it by now
literally every person that picks up the game doesn't know about the sweep or OTG or jump kick

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You're the Humiliation Ritual

>>740918146
If this isn't bait, kill yourself.

>>740952241
>Because they aren't the player
The best boss fights in an action game are always ones where you fight an enemy that is closest to you in terms of moveset. Always. It's a tradition basically.
>as to be a fun experience of trial and error and learning
Again, this is small minded way to think about it.
>You can't have an even mental battle with a computer
No shit, that's why you telling me to play a fighting game doesn't make sense because i'm not proposing to have a mental battle in an action game. The point is to have enemies that are reactive and don't fall into boring, linear flowcharts.

I don't want to learn a flowchart to win (i.e. souls), nor do I want something that gives me a ton of moves to "make my own fun" with (i.e. DMC).
>There's a good reason the kind of thing you're talking about only ever extended to moves becoming stale
No, it's because that is the easiest thing to talk about because that concept already exists via DMC style meter being an attempt at breaking stale player gameplay but it doesn't go far enough. In God Hand enemies can just randomly block or dodge your moves. Most other games don't have anything to discourage the player falling into their own patterns. I like NG a lot but realistically there is nothing in NG1 or 2 to stop the player from abusing the absolute shit out of UT at every opportunity.

cont.

>>740952241
>but that also only really applies to combo systems and not neutral interactions.
Not at all. Again, I already pointed this out. Anon complained about being able to repeat the pattern of something like jab jab guard break in god hand and it working, as enemies will frequently block and even if they don't block you aren't going to get punished for it and he is right. The player can just do that. You can do similar things in a lot of things too. Just moves that can be thrown out and not punished and if you punish them by making them unsafe to throw out randomly, then the player will playing a more boring dodge and punish way which also isn't particularly fun either.

>>740952307
>this in itself is also easily solved by just figuring out an AI's threshold on when it starts to counter specific moves,
You're not thinking enough. You're thinking about the idea like it can ONLY work like kingom hearts revenge value or w/e. There are ways to get around it. The threshold can still have variance and it can be more dynamic then "if player does move A X amount of times, auto-dodge it"
>You want an action game where every enemy is a human opponent, and that just isn't very realistic.
I just don't know why people are being so small minded in this concept. There already are examples of enemies that play semi-reactively, god hand and ninja gaiden. Enemies being reactive makes fights more dynamic. It is not fun to dodge and punish, it is not fun to be able to do the same thing in the same situation every single time.

And also again, a fighting game is a 1v1. Combing these ideas can create something we've never seen in an action game.

You can have fun with the action games that exist, I have fun with them too, but there are ways to push the genre further beyond what we have. I've thought about these ideas a lot. It might not be in 5 years or 10 or even 15 from now but i'll prove these ideas can work in an action game.

>>740942861
>TAS
We know, retard. how new are u?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTEO7-3EhEM

>>740954326
Shit Hand has you doing the same exact pattern over and over again though.

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>>740954326
You're a robot. This is how you win threads. Flood it with information while you circlejerk yourself like you're having an epic discussion. You're retarded

>>740954326
>The best boss fights in an action game are always ones where you fight an enemy that is closest to you in terms of moveset. Always. It's a tradition basically.
ok, but that isn't what we're talking about at all so I don't know why you're bringing that up? We're talking about how enemies behave not whether they share moves with the player.
>I'm not naive you're small-minded!
Ok then, build the game and prove me wrong. Until then what you're asking for sounds to me incredibly naive. I agree completely with >>740952307
>god hand and ninja gaiden
Didn't this all start because you were complaining that God Hand has a random evasion/guard chance?

>I've thought about these ideas a lot
I do not mean this to be aggressive or mean in any way: no you haven't. Sit down and actually try to hammer out a design document and see how quickly the logistics break down the exact ways we've described.

>>740946976
>Replaying NGB is a chore
The game leaned too heavily into adventure things and gimmicks. It would’ve been better if it was more action oriented. From the moment you go underground you mostly fight some lame enemies that are mostly used as decorations and do various small puzzles.

>>740954457
Damn almost like I criticized god hand and pointed out how it's flawed. Learn2read

>>740954496
You're too retarded to hold a conversation that's why you're so reductive.

>>740954745
>so I don't know why you're bringing that up?
Because you point out that enemies aren't the players, yet the most fun boss fights are the ones that fight closest to the players. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. It is fun to fight an enemy that feels almost at the same level as you.
>Ok then, build the game and prove me wrong.
Oh, I want to. I'm not bringing these ideas up for nothing, I genuinely believe in them and genuinely believe it can create something good and I really don't understand the point in being so argumentative about as i'm presenting a game concept, i'm not using all action games are shit but that there is still room for innovation.
>Didn't this all start because you were complaining that God Hand has a random evasion/guard chance?
No? read the chain of posts. I literally started off responding to the guy that was complaining about guards or w/e.
>no you haven't.
Yet to see anyone actually tell me how the idea is flawed. A lot of the criticism has just been that "it's not a le fighting game". The entire system concept would have 10+ posts worth of text and for what? it's a god hand thread. I started off with a discussion about how part of what someone originally complained about could be fixed with enemy being able to punish the player for spamming specific moves or sequence of moves to abuse the enemies AI of randomly blocking which has obviously spun off until a whole other conversation

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>>740936945
it explains what to do at the start of the game, explains every item in the game at least partially, tells you how every map is structured which is super useful for puzzles and tells you what CD-combinations in your PC do.
its just a lot of useful stuff. especially the start trips up people who ignore the manual.

>>740955502
Sure thing have fun talking to yourself fag. All that word salad and you say absolutely nothing of value. Stream your kick me sign suicide

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>>740955502
>it that a coincidence?
No, but it's also completely irrelevant.
I'm not reading the rest of your post. Pic related.

You're not Alexander

>>740955693
>All that word salad and you say absolutely nothing of value
Could easily say you've said nothing of value either. Sorry you're too retarded to have a real conversation and instead lash out at things you don't understand.

>>740955754
It's entirely relevant but you're too stupid to understand it lol.

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>>740956824
Wanna hug?

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>>740956146
Huh?!

>>740956146
>>740957348
I'M BRUTAL AND RUTHLESS

>>740943542
No sometimes I could react to the random jumps
t.beat death shudder on hard kms

>>740943593
It looks like shit on video but it's good to execute

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>>740951704
Good post. The first azel fight is for me the perfect example of something that could almost pass as a fighting game but solo

>>740959107
but what's the point of getting good and having fun if it doesn't result in le ebic truestyle combo video for strangers on 4chan?

>>740933678
>nigger goyden

>>740959475
For me? It's fun. I will do a coin flip and decide if I try beating aria low % in necrodancer or redo a playthrough of god hand on hard mode

>>740954393
>The threshold can still have variance and it can be more dynamic then "if player does move A X amount of times, auto-dodge it"
The easiest way to do this would be to have several gauges that fill independently and with different values depending on the move. Something like annoyance gauge, rage gauge and life-loss gauge. This combined with also randomly triggering the effects would make it pretty dynamic but also somewhat predictable. Being able to predict the enemy is part of the fun.

>>740933678
now this is kino

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>>740922962
>shits in your living room

Once you learn that counter hits on enemies send them flying the game totally changes. Such a masterpiece.

>>740922649
Stranger of Paradise, Nioh 2, Rise of Ronin

>>740960235
One of the ideas I had is that enemies have X% chance to dodge a specific move, with that chance increasing every time the move is done, with the % resetting after a certain amount of time where the move isn't used or possibly resetting if the counter does trigger.

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Isn't it funny how God Hand has a Roulette Wheel but no Roulette Wheel?

>>740942785
>you have to make "reads"/risks
Lmao. You never played the game.

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What I dont understand is why NG gets shat on so much for being a game thats 99% iframes, but godhand gets a pass for some reason when its the exact same thing. Great game, but my god some people fellate it like theres no tomorrow just because its a niche within a niche game. I dread the day urban reign gets even a tiny bit popular to have this kind of following.

This game is the perfect mixture of extremely fun and unique gameplay with a high skill ceiling and genuinely unfun broken bullshit you have to cheese your way around, which of course makes discussing it on /v/ a nightmare.

>>740961904
>god hand
>99% i-frames
lol wat

>>740960640
I need you to explain this to me because for some reason "shits in your living room" is activating some ancient buried 4chan memory deep in my mind, but not fully.

>>740960780
Hell yeah SoP.

>>740961904
>urban reign
Don't worry. Game is shit.

>>740962367
Filtered

>>740962175
Golem is a mid boss from Urban Reign that is a civilisational level great filter bcs he is basically unbeatable unless you understand beat em up strats. and even then you have to have twitch reactions and watch for patterns like "is he running or walking towards you" to have a chance to properly counter him.

the 4chan meme is that one where a japanese account tells some american groid that you expect to see a piece of shit in a toilet bowl but when it is on the kitchen table we have an issue. the og post was about some muslim or black country i think.

>>740918005
>every enemy has two billion hit points
Not true, you just suck at making good damage routes.
>every enemy blocks randomly forcing you to play extremely linearly
You literally get time to guard break as they block mid string, you only get reflected if you keep attacking. The window is somewhat small, but large enough for you to notice they start blocking as you attack and to pivot to a guard break move.

>>740962068
I just enjoy the shitstorms

>>740962574
>The window is somewhat small, but large enough for you to notice they start blocking as you attack and to pivot to a guard break move.
Not true, only on level 1&2 difficulty.