Why was this game so popular
>>740929973you could play it in a browser tab on any shit computer and chat with your friends in a era before cell phones existed for normal people
Because the opportunity cost of going to a website to play something for free was lower than asking your parent(s) to buy you things.
>>740930052classic wow FAGGOTS are the most insufferable fucking retards ever because they will blame the death of the MMORPG on every fucking content update under the sun from class ability revisions to dungeon finder grouping but never acknowledge how RUNESCAPE/WOW/GUILDWARS1 popped the fuck off in an era where cell phones literally did not exist for anyone but elite businessmen and it was nice to chat in-game with school friends without having a public conversation over the family landline
>>740929973checked every box of kinonext question
cos u could call ppl niggers without tranny jannys policing everything u type or trying to groom u
>that one nu-quest where the evil wh*te varrock museum curator steals artefacts from the Black varlamorians and you have to get it back by playing a shaming minigame where you call him a nazi racist incel white chudFuck fagex
>>740929973>Runescape back thenSocial MMO>Runescape todayBad rhythm game
>>740929973it had a f2p mode, it ran on anything and it was simple to play
But why did he get caught? Was it just poor pathing or by the time he started moving the other team was there or what
>>740930664but why does he listen to gay porn music 24/7
>>740930354Tell me thats a joke
>>740930664I don't care about whatever faggy streamer you obsess over
>>740929973It was free and didn't require full attention
>>740929973never got into it. I was a RotMG kid through and through
>>740929973cause you could play it for free at the school library with the boys
>>740930774steamers are gayer than you but allstars has been kino because they bothered making daily highlight reels for it.
>>740929973>rune boots>barrows glovesPost the reality. We were all wearing cooking gauntlets (+2 str) and climbing boots (+1 str) back when the game was good.
>>740929973It's basically a sandbox game ala kenshi but disguised as an MMO.
>>740930301>WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW out of nowhereobsessed with the better game huh?
>>740929973It was a different era. There was no way to talk to your friends outside of school without physically meeting up, so MMOs were like magic
>>740933091>There was no way to talk to your friends outside of school without physically meeting up,The world needs to go back to this
>>740931019RotMG filtered me, I could never beat anything harder than Sprite World
Was evolution of combat THE worst update in history?
Why haven't more games implemented the ability to examine objects in the game world by right-clicking?
>>740934224jagex has a patent for that.
>>740929973FreeNo downloadOnlineHell of a recipe for the early 00s.
>>740933812As far as Runescape is concerned, yes. Industry-wide, no. EOC did significant damage but didn't outright kill the game.
Ran on anything, F2P, friends at school.
Someone post that video of the guy losing his entire bank worth of money in an accidental PvP zone teleport and he crashes out in front of his wife and kids.
>>740933091Id say messenger but now i remember the only people i talked to were runey players because ingame chat sucked
>>740929973its the game for us uncs when we didnt have money to buy anything else and it ran on every computer on a browser so you could play it in computer class
>>740930664
free to play chat room with a game behind it. Not a great game, but an okay one, with a variety of things to do.
>>740934224Because you have to actually add that text to the variety of things you can examine and most games don't want to bother with that shit 99% of people don't engage with.
>>740929973Because chilling at resource nodes and chatting with strangers was a novel experience in the early 2000s. You had to be there. Brighter Shores getting less than 200 daily players in 2026 didn't understand this.
game went from being a cookie clicker to needing odablock levels of tick autism to do content
>>740930664>>740931330What causes this sort of parasocial internet relationship these days where people will just bring up some random streamer as if it's their best friend and expect everyone in the thread to know exactly what they're talking about? What the fuck is wrong with normalfags
>>740937316>Faggot following a Runescape streamer>normalfag
>>740936943brighter shores was a completely different game than RS ever was, the only thing similar was the amount of skills it had. EVERYTHING else was different. Combat was fucked and somewhere in between legacy rs3 and tab combat, the world was barren because it's all snapped together procedurally generated slop (though now that's changed a little with milestone rooms/areas), quests were barebones pig ass collectathons, and despite level cap being 999, everything scaled to you automatically, so you would have a brutal grind at like 80 to around 150 then afterwards it snapped it's progression so you would go 150-999 in a couple days, most people on it are maxed, and were within 90 days of launch.Brighter shores was fucked from the getgo, it completely missed what made RS fun, because he didn't want to make his own game he wanted to re-make RS.
>>740936943Even brighter shores didn't understand this because the retard dev sectioned off each room into layers so people would be split up even at the same node.
>>740937494You are watching a person stream themselves playing a video game and trying to gossip girl about it with other normalfags. You are literal cattle, you are a goy, yes.
>>740937494>>740930664time to accept you're in your own little bubble anon
>>740937494>posting a random streamer with no context and expecting everyone else to be inside your little circle and know what you're referencing
>>740937316>>740936135>>740938248Well, okay.The context is that there's an ongoing Deadman/PvP tournament. The guy in that image is a team captain who got PKed for a really strong PvP weapon that he just picked up in a breach(basically an open world raid that players can fight in and also PK in), because his teammate(the guy who got caught) got initiated on in a team fight, The team captain went back with the whole team to try to save him, ended up getting dogpiled and killed. He got slightly heated at the guy who got caught and yelled at him. I was asking why(mechanically) the guy who got caught ended up in that scenario because it seemed to me like the whole team moved together as a whole and the mechanics of multi-combat PvP that isn't just a 20 player ice barrage bukkake on some poorfag with a bronze med helm and bronze crossbow is interesting to me.I did not mean it parasocially because the tournament is sponsored by jagex and there's supposed to be a stage finale next week so I assumed everyone knew. I was still a huge homo about it so I apologize.
>>740929973300 hours of content locked behind 200 hours of grinding
>>740929973WoW for poor kids
>>740929973You could afk+watch anime+ shitpost on the same crappy PC all within 1 browser
>>740929973it's basically the last sandbox mmo in existence. all of them are now themepark MMOs, aping WoW.
>>740943646>Naruto EP 48 [1/3] in one tab on firefox>sals or tipit or zybez on the second>runescape on the third
>>740929973you had to be there
I'm tired boss...
>>740929973>>740934224RuneScape is a point & click adventure game with an MMO and a chatroom built on top of it. That's why it's so unique and engaging in the current age and even growing in popularity while other MMOs are dying and scrambling to remain relevant past the time period where MMOs could rely solely on player interaction to drive interest. RuneScape has a unique and interesting game in it which trounces every modern RPG and most retro ones.
>>740933812I feel like removing free trade and the wildy was worse
>>740933812Actually the worst update is when they added anything gay to the game.
This good or bad?
>>740945537It means another account you have to keep track of rather than logging in with a username and password like the oldfags can
>>740945537Extremely bad. When Jagex accounts first launched they had 0 security or support on them, so anyone who joined the system was susceptible to support exploits, and they were absolutely brutalized by it. It's still an issue. It's one of the largest failure points of jagex security, their support is a grab bag, if you VPN up and have rudimentary account info, they will reset and disable 2FA, rendering the 2FA in the first place totally useless. Your only defense if someone actually breaks in is a bank pin and they've been known to disable that immediately too, despite saying they're incapable and stating it's required to wait out the period.
Brainrot game of clicking and skilling. Unc retirement home game
>>740929973Now that League is over let's talk about it.Hands down in my opinion the worst league so far. Jagex gave 0 thoughts on the echo items at all. If you didn't go mage you got fucked because whoever designed that "skill tree" was fucking retarded.They clearly gave up midway because they didn't even bother to fix bugs like the blindbag one.Sadly I went with the crossbow like the retard I am and got absolutely fucked. Who thought slowing down crossbow but not giving it 100% hit chance was a good idea? Because of that the ranged-echos barely activated making your DPS absolute shit for the commitment you need.Also my retarded ass went with the desert meme again instead of morytania for the raid and the drop chances for the voucher are clearly not boosted.>Pick Wildy>have to do 10 different RNG tasks>Fuckers at Jagex couldnt even give us instanced boss roomsMaybe I expected too much competence from Jagex. Maybe it's my fault for thinking giving these fuckers money was a smart.
>>740937557i unironically thought brighter shores would kill rs for good until I played their shit game
>>740930052This is my answer. My family was the only part of my extended family that lived somewhere outside the motherland (rural northern Louisiana)(thank god), and runescape is how I finally got to hang with my cousins more than once a year at the Christmas party. Nothing else like it that i had access to.
>>740930763Exaggerated as the usual shitposter speak goesWhat actually happens in the quest was>Varrock Museum guy catches someone else stealing shit from the Valamore Museum>No one witnesses it, so he pockets the stolen item for himself and sneaks back to Varrock>Player asked to investigate then finds out, and shames the guy into returning the stolen shit
>>740931245I remember the day we upgraded the family computer to a Dell. Back when they had those ads, "You're gettin' a Dell, lil' dude!" running all the time. It had a 60GB hard drive and it felt like the fucking future.
>>740945940Regular non-Jagex accounts have no security either. Bad actors can social engineer Jagex support to steal your account by giving them your time played which is why its hidden by default in the collection tab, it was a problem long before Jagex accounts were a thing. Your RuneScape password is not even case-sensitive
I miss osrs. After I hit late midgame 2000 total every time I boot it up I become acutely aware of what a profound waste of time it is and I cannot bring myself to play anymore. This doesn’t happen to me with any other game. There’s something about this game that is literally evil and gives off an evil aura
>>740946591It was solid 6/10Had fun tobbing with crossbow build but if you didn't build thorns mage you were literally gimping yourself. Regions were imbalanced as well. Burnt out in two weeks and I only bought the new teleport animation, the rewards were dogshit.
How much tank gear were you supposed to use for the water thorns build? I was mostly using air spells so I did the typical 50 prayer targeting thing, with an arcane spirit shield instead of the devil's element for a bit at the end for colo farming, but I did dig out water a bit for afk corp/pushing deep delves, and I just used Virtus (+shield, fury, echo boots) for that. Was I supposed to bring a piece or two of dragon or crystal instead? Infernal cape over ma2 cape, maybe?
>>740947424Yes, that's a widescale jagex issue, but with how they've been trying to force jagex accounts it opens up new issues because your entire account history is gone and they have no way to verify you are who you say you are. TONS of characters are going to get sniped and locked out when they force the switch.
>>740929973It's a Metroidvania disguised as a single-player point-and-click adventure game disguised as an MMO.
It's funny how trannies always latch onto the game and every discussion, forum and general but don't actually play the game
>>740948360I don't know all the details of how the switch works, but that makes sense to me. Depending on how they verify ownership when switching to a Jagex account someone could snipe your account, but I'd imagine that they would need your login credentials in the first place
>>740943027How can you take the tournaments seriously when they let rot DDOS their opponents for years?
>>740948738They wouldn't, they ask support, support gives it to them.That's what happened when they first announced it.You could just reach out to support and say "hey I lost my login info, but want to attach x character to y jagex account" and they fucking DID IT, then the character was lost permanently because they couldn't untie them.DOZENS of characters were lost from this bullshit, but walking back their hardline "no support will give you access" stance, now it's back to the same bullshit issues of support giving you reset emails with just a little bit of info. The newer the jagex account, the more likely they are to share it, and iwth the huge number of leaks RS has had over the years, it's not hard at all to find info for old, valuable accounts to rip with. People are just waiting.
>THE biggest thing in grade 8, all the boys play it, even my (literal) dumpster shitbox can >everyone's grinding meaningless bullshit like woodcutting and fishing>find all that boring as shit>start doing quests since I'm fed up with killing cows 20+ people have lined up for>literally the only one in my friend circle who did>tell them that there's a shortcut to the desert>suddenly everyone wants to know how>be their gayman guru for like a week>all non-member quests done, grind for another few weeks>quit, play pirated Deus Ex, Age Of Empires II and Robin Hood The Legend of Sherwood insteadThanks for reading my blog
>>740950349>legend of sherwood>moved from garbage to toxic wastelmfaothere were so many chomos on sherwood, too. I don't know how that site ever managed to sticka round.
>>740950674>sitewutAll I remember is that the game had comfy visuals, fantastic soundtrack and even made me feel bad for killing enemies despite being a dumb teenage ESL
>>740945846>rather than logging in with a username and password like the oldfags canNot even the oldfags will be able to do that when they implement their switchover>>740946591The pacts system was too ambitious for its own good, I think. I don't think PoE-style build autism is a good fit for Runescape, especially with a strict limit of respecs which they must have recognized since they kept raising it. But more than that, your build is determined by what items you can get, ergo what regions you have access to and no amount of respeccing pacts can fix that. Also, magic was the worst style last league so naturally they had to go harder with it this time. Maybe next time melee will get a turn as the best style.
>>740951798I know, I'm gonna miss my username login
>>740946591Blindbag feels genuinely spiteful to players>complete RNG>zero sustain>requires you to sacrifice almost a fifth of your inventory space>only league weapon that works with it is strictly worse than a base game weapon from the same region>left the dramen/lunar staff as a possible weapon for it for far too longAnd they come out and say it doesn't need rebalancing or bug fixing while water magic is outdamaging it and making you almost immortal with zero downsides
>>740945537Their account system is so messy that I have no idea whether it's going to actually cause problems for me or not.My OSRS account is a Steam login, but it's linked to my original account that I also use for RS3 via standalone client with an old style login. I'm guessing since I'm already able to use Steam to login to OSRS my RS3 account is also available to login under Steam if I was to install RS3 on Steam, but I don't know for certain.
>>740948858I think I'm more interested in what they're doing than the actual tournament which has mainly been people fucking around in between the breaches. I like seeing all the planning that goes into it and on the fly decision making.For example I saw this highlight of a team deciding to wait at a specific glider spot after their planner came up with this idea that psychologically speaking anyone who's trying to use the glider in a hurry will click on the most obvious thing in front of them which happened to be white wolf mountain. They stuck around for like 15 minutes arguing and eventually it paid off and I thought that was pretty cool for a tournament setting.It's streamer/youtuber only and not the normal deadman mode thing but apparently someone had been affliated with rot last time and they ended up with ddos attacks during the final.
>>740929973gf slave market
>>740953520yeah, ditterbitter and his kin are historically RoT affiliated. A LOT of the early PVP tubers and streamers were. Just a sort of natural effect of being popular when PVP mattered and wasn't just staking. RoT was the biggest group bar none so they would pull in popular people too.I mean, there's a reason RoT was the group that mod jed was funneling items and cash to.
>>740946591It is the first league I bothered to get dragon rank in, it was alright. Another showcase of Jagex inability to do basic math and balancing. Twisted league is still the best one.
>>740952375That was the one thing that really pissed me off. Jagex telling us they know better when everyone knew how shit the balance general flow was
>>740947569honestly, thats every MMO for medoesnt help that every guy i grew up with who played lots of MMOs is a complete deadbeat loserliterally im talking people that wasted their 20s AND 30s on them and got their first jobs at 40
>>740933812no the grand exchange update where jagex set items prices was.
>>740955936>tfw got my first job at 28>All the old ladies in the office love me because I'm an ugly man who knows how to hold his tongue>failed upwards into middle management and now make $30/hr just playing runescape on my phonelmao the world is funny as shit.
>>740929973Number up go in explore world.
>>740957143literally me in property management right now. ive found myself as an associate community manager so i dont have the workload of the community manager and 95% of my work i just delegate to my minions. im fishing right now on runescape as we speak.
>Always hear about how Runescape is nothing but cookie clicker boring grindslop>Play a "real" MMO like WoW>It's just slayer
>>740955291>Mod Husky trying to defend the absolutely dogshit echo bow on the 'cord while everyone was rightfully complaining
>>740957637RuneScape is way deeper than any other MMO on the market right now, but I don't blame people for getting the wrong impression about it due to the same kind of number monkeys keeping WoW's fetid corpse afloat putting a huge emphasis on grinding for 99s and completely ignoring the quests which are better than most RPGs period. That's the only thing that a lot of people see about the game: Clicking rocks or trees
I wish OSRS would make new content. Leagues were super fresh and novel when they first came out but I have heard precisely 0 about the last 2.
>>740957761>You WILL have limited resets and you WILL be happy about it
every kid in 2004-2008 wanted to play WoW if they had a modicum of interest in fantasy and vidya. most kids could not afford or convince their parents to pay $15 a month after already buying the base game. Runescape offered that but for free. There was a time when any f2p MMO was worth checking out as a 10-15 year old. me and all my friends tried them all growing up. in the end they all sucked except Runescape, Guild Wars, and Cabal Online.
>>740957898>RuneScape is way deeper than any other MMO on the market right nowthat's actually really grim
>>740958013What about Varlamore and sailing?
>>740958337Varlamore p3 is a year old, and sailing is 6 months old. They've slowed way down the last couple years because of the insistence on leagues and dmm and bingo shit. I get they're interesting to some players but like, they killed the pserver thing cause they knew it wasn't going to work, why not just scale back and do one event a year instead of 2 or 3?
>>740958292That's not to say that RuneScape doesn't have depth. The story, questing, and world-building are very good even by non-MMO standards, but every other MMO persists entirely on addiction and sunken cost fallacy rather than just partially like RuneScape. That's because they all based themselves off of a game (EverQuest) whose ONLY virtue was giving people online an opportunity to interact with each other. That was the entire game. You grouped up, sat around a camp of mob spawns, and you grinded them for dozens of hours while you just talked to people. That worked when the average person on the Internet was of much higher quality, but that's not the world we live in right now. All of the dregs of society have Internet access and mobile devices, so they infest and degrade all corners of the net, which include MMOs. So people are sick of interacting with others online and just want a solid gameplay experience, and RuneScape is the only MMO that can offer that
>>740958292its also a bold faced lie. if runescape is deep, then a fucking puddle is the sea floor.
>>740929973cuz it was fun and killed timejagex has run it into the fucking ground and all thats left is bots and gaysgood luck jagex.
>>740958670What other MMOs have almost every quest reward you with something game-changing like access to a new area or a new activity or a new transportation method or a new spell book? What other MMOs force you to read and think and solve puzzles and build an actual knowledge-base of the world and its inhabitants in order to complete quests? What other MMOs actually feel like an adventure instead of a gated theme park designed to push you towards the endgame where you just grind out your capped weekly dungeons? None of them, because they don't have the foundation of a point & click adventure like RuneScape does.
>>740958496bro nobody likes that shit jagex is just pandering to the only people left lol
I still think an MMO that gutted itself at a certain point was able to bounce back and get stable population numbers (100k+) seems like an impressive feat, especially with how many different hands have handled Runescape.
>>740958670Runescape combat gets pretty autistic compared to most MMOs
>>740959220It didn't bounce back. They spun off a version of the game from a 2007 backup in 2013 that undid 6 years of updates. That's the version that has 100k+ players. The original game is sitting at about 20k, and it's peak hours right now.
>>740959220The question comes with the legitimacy of those players. It's player numbers swing WILDLY after big updates.
>>740959220>>740959727How many of those players are bots/goldfarmers?
>>740959727>12:30 on a friday, 3:30 on east coast>peak hours?????????????
>>740959814He's literally a third-worlder
>>740929973Effective miniclip ads and since you get a lot of good rewards for putting in the time and effort. It's easy to get hooked on if that game structure fits your personality.
>>740959727The technicality is that it did bounce back, offering something familiar to the old game people used to play, which was more popular, and most people are familiar with any way. It didn't literally bounce back as the same game, but having two separate games was probably the best move, and they're making strides to make both games better at what they do.>>740959747I will be honest, I only took those numbers just now since that's what I see that's online, the lowest I can suggest in a 24h period may be 30k or so, and it's probably blown up because of how many people are excited for the upcoming patch from the summer sweep-up.>>740959770No idea, I don't go to the G.E.
>>740959770That's the question. They really did a pretty swell job with the recent bot bust/cleanout, but I already see them back at fishing. I hate to say it but I think we need to move away from the age of AI and detection systems and just hire some minwage workers to go ban people. It's the only system I have ever seen actually work in keeping MMOs free and clear of bots/rulebreakers in general, since it's becoming clear that we'll never find a safe gov backed system for managing MMO accounts like KR has, which is the ultimate solution, they ban chinks in 30 seconds if you report one on lineage or maplestory
>>740960141Bounce back implies it came back from a loss, it never did. The original never recovered and has only bled players over the years. OSRS is a brand new game, with new accounts.
>>740957761How many of the echo items were basically useless? The Tecpatls from Amox were pointless since they were less powerful than the maracas that were easier to get even without the blood moon set effectThe dagger didn't sound super useful to me but you could at least do thorns+spec build with it
I did blind bag elf land and gauntlet blind bag was so bad that I just went to do gauntlet on main
>>740960980>Tecpatls were pointless>dagger suffers from the fact that the air/water build absolutely dominated mage>healing bow was useless because why would you pick that over air/water sustain, also 2H so no thorns>Drygore blowpipe was useless because shit pacts and 2H>KBD crossbow was only useful because its own passive gimmick worked with water sustain pacts>Lithic sceptre only really had a few super niche uses like in ToB>V's helm was absolutely not worth the dogshit Fremmink region pick,
>>740929973
>>740962082Now I can play bad runescape game on Japanese console
>>740962082Asians are the most buck broken slaves when it comes to MMOs, I don't think they have any room to talk
>>740930301did you live in poverty or something because everyone had a cellphone around like 2003
>>740930354Remember when OSRS used to be the game free from the woke shit and that rioting actually got a forced pride event canceled back around 2016-17?
>>740963089There was never a golden age of RuneScape, and that includes politically. It's always been an eternal struggle between the developers and the playerbase. At least the new CEO put a stop to this stuff
>>740945940This is probably what happened to me then. I've played on and off for a while and must have created the account at some point. Logged in after a few months and my entire bank had been cleaned out and I no longer had a bank pin. I just uninstalled and haven't looked back since. No suspicious activity notification or email saying my pin was changed or removed. What a fucking stupid security system where it takes the user 20 goddamn minutes just to log in and jump through a billion hoops if they haven't played in a while just for some shitskin fag to abuse the system and take your two decades of progress completely unabated.
>>740933812EoC is unironically better than the old combat OSRS still uses, it was shit at release but its a lot better now and they just recently did a combat update that made all styles better and more polished without all the bloat of useless abilities no one ever uses. I have more fun pvming in RS3 than I do in OSRS.
>>740963313Count yourself lucky you still have your account. When they first came out people were just outright saying "Oh this is my account here's the email login" and getting yeeeeeeeeeeears old accounts, some defunct, some not.
>>740959391You mean fucking annoying. i cant stand the endgame
>>740964182I also don't like investing the focus required to do endgame PvE. Just give me something to AFK while I do something else
prayer flicking is fucking mega turbo gay. I'm glad they've introduced shit like those prayer regen pots, they make nearly every single piece of content doable without having to flick, or at least, not NEARLY as perfectly.
>>740929973As others have stated, the barrier for entry was much lower than pretty much every other MMO at the time. It offered frequent, significant updates and quests were actually quite novel. There was a massive social aspect to the game as well that extended out into content creation on early youtube and sites like tipit. The membership also was like 5 bucks at the time which was significantly cheaper than other subscription MMO's and offered like quadruple the content of the free game. Progression was difficult but rewarding and in many cases you were surrounded by other players while doing it. A lot of people say that it was the removal of trading and the wildy that killed the game, and they would be right, but I would argue that the GE was the moment that RS died. EoC was also obviously fucking retarded. In the modern era, though... I think the introduction of ironman was just as catastrophically bad for the spirit of the game as all the previously stated updates.
>>740963669Too bad RS3 is still a graveyard of useless, outdated content that rots out in the open, and the damage done by 13 years of spins is still there
>>740964798Ironman as a concept is fine, but I hate the culture around it. Those are the people primarily pushing the number slurping efficiency autism that gives the game a bad rep as a 1000 hour AFK cookie clicker clone. The people on their 4th or 5th account who rushed through the quests and follow online guides for the most efficient way to level and gear and act like that's the only way to play, or that they're superior for needing the recognition of playing a way that many non-helm accounts have already been playing for years. It's a complete perversion of the things that actually make RuneScape special
>>740929973it allowed people to scam others for money
Ironman is brutal because it wasn't just the inclusion of a mode in a very novel way to make players engage with far more steps of the game than they historically would have, it has become an excuse for the devs to remove more steps from most core gameplay systems. You don't need to go farm, you just kill boss x and get a billion ranarrs for infinite pray pots. You don't need to mine, you just get cballs or ore from mobs, don't need to fletch, just kill a boss for runite gear. It's just a joke, and obliterated NOT just ironman, but the regular game too, mining and smithing are completely pointless skills, you would and should never engage with them outside of questreqs (or the handful of items you need smithing to create). It's sad.
>>740964415Its annoying how Jagex decided to listen to leddit regarding prayer flicking and now made it everyones problem. It was literally bug abuse at the start
>>740966206Conserving prayer by turning it on and off is fine, there's some leeway expected, but yeah the concept of having to do it tick perfectly is just stupid as shit. It's like all those 2/3tick manip moves for mining and shit. What in the fuck is the point.
