Serious question: What was he trying to do? Does his ending just turn everyone into an omen? Wouldn't that basically reset things to the status quo as it was under the Hornsent? Or does his ending do something else entirely?
>>741368234Turn people into omen to pay Marika back for what she did to the hornsent.
>>741368234he is trying to curse everyone to eternal suffering because they treat the omen like shit and he believes himself to be an omen
>>741368234I always see thread about this guy, is he a fan-favorite?
>>741368378>is he a fan-favorite?Yes but for all the wrong reasons
>>741368378Thread made whenever OP wants someone to leave his /vg/ thread. He doesn't know about multiple tabs.
>>741368483You forgot to take your medication today
>>741368573He probably just posts in the thread he's talking about and sees this happen repeatedly.
>>741368234He wants everyone to suffer together so that no one suffers alone.
"When everybody is cursed, nobody will be."
>>741368234Mans just wanna eat a lotta shit, people hate mans but mans keep eating.
>>741368234He wants to debase people to the mindset of the hornsent/omen. It isn't merely about etrenal suffering as an animal, it is about how those animals couldn't form a religious structure to challenge the gods. Mankind will never again raise to the level of understanding the bigger picture of control they are under and never desire to move past supplication of greater animals that can brutalize them if they desire to. It is the you get what you fucking deserve ending.
>>741368234i thought when people died in ER they essentially fell under the mantle of one eldritch god or another and by hornsenting/omening the world it frees the world of being pawns to some interstellar star beasts' whimsbut i only played the game once and got his ending since it seemed to make the most sense as a "good" ending since it places agency back in the hands of mortalsONE MORE GOD REJECTED
>>741368234the real crime is why is one of the harder endings to get have such a lackluster final cinematic? it doesnt even show hornsent iirc the sky just turns brown
>>741369245If you're going to destory everything you might as well actually destory everything via the frenzied flame instead of this halfmeasure of doodooland
>>741369563>it doesnt even show hornsentwhy would it show hornsents? those fags are trapped in the shadowlands
>>741369584the shiteater doesnt want to destroy everything, he wants everyone to suffer
how we do know omen and hornsent are the same thing
>>741368234"I'm a miserble fucktard so everyone should be one too"
Even people who have dedicated their entire lives, blood and sweat, to making FromSoft lore videos on YouTube haven’t been able to pull anything significant lore-wise out of this game. It’s really fascinating. I assumed they brought GRRM in to fix the issue of Miyazaki no longer having the time to do all the lore and write all the item descriptions like he did for Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls. It’s hard to refute the memes making fun of FromSoft lore nowadays. I really hope Miyazaki is able to take the reigns again on the next big project. Dark Souls 1 lore was so good. I was able to get something really significant out of it just on my own even before watching videos on it. I really don’t think Elden Ring meant anything artistic.
>>741368234The Dastardly Doo-Doo Devourer
>>741368234He's just Indian.
>>741369740omen are just ugly dudes who were "blessed" by the crucible way more than normal, even the hornsent made fun if them and told them to fuck off, the appropriate amount of "blessing" is just horns
>>741369472I mean, I GUESS that's true, but ranni's ending also frees them from the spacefaggots. It's debatable if the moonfaggot is in charge afterwards, but moonfaggot doesnt seem to care or something. Ranni and her consort just leave them behind to deal with themselves. If you want a world free of the influence of spacefaggots, that's probably a better option than literally using their device to dunk everyone's souls into the ganges river and eternally poison themTheyre free from the god's influence, but theyre also LITERALLY shit on a spiritual level. Not a great trade off desu
>>741369245hornsent and omen aren't the same thing. omen are a curse by the hornsent Grandham on Marika's bloodline. The spirits that haunt them in their dreams are the hornsent. But there's also no way Dung Eater knows any of that.
>>741368234How the fuck do you people figure out all this lore shit? I finished elden ring twice and I still have no idea what any of the npc characters want or what the endings mean
>>741370165i refuse to believe people like you are actually real
>>741369950The hornsent cursed marika to birth omens as evidence of their debased nature. Marika then birthed omens and sired omens using the mimic veil which spread them thru the lands between. Dungeater wears a talisman from the Hornsent crusades showing he has knowledge of the link between the 2. When playing the dlc the game gives you ample evidence of how the hornsent viewed themselves within the cosmology of greateer dieties and it was as beggars at their feet, that is what dungeater thinks people should exist as.
>>741369786yeah, it pisses me off. there's so many disconnected threads and so little earned closure. and /v/tards will tell you it all makes sense if you're not a retard but they're just making shit up and convincing themself its irrefutable. back in DS1, we know what fire was, and what it does, and where it came from. we know the god's relation to fire, and the human's relation to dark. therefore, arguing about the ending was about moral senatics. deciding if humans could be trusted to govern their own fate, or how little time thye had left before their time was over as well. that's all established by the game, inarguable. discussion of every ending in ER's boils down to "what just happened, i don't understand" because the game doesn't fucking tell you. there's no definitive line in the game that actually explains what the elden rings' effect on the world even is. and the erdtree is apparently cosmetic to Marika's empire, so literally none of the visual calling cards of this fantasy setting have clear purpose or meaning. it's all set dressing.
>>741369950I don't think the wraith spirits are necessarily hornsent, but in general spirits that can't return to the erdtree because it's broken. horns can store spirits and the underground sewers adjacent to the base of the erdtree seem like a place where spirits can amass. and it'd be incredibly ironic that the spirits of the people of the golden order can't make it to the erdtree and instead get siphoned off to the omens they cursed when they were alive.
Imma be honest. I got mad confused everyone had the same name and I didn't understand no thang deadass. Doodoo feces at least kept to his word. He would rape and gape me and I like that in a nigga. Errybody else just tried to fool me but it takes one to knoe onr ain't no one fooling me nigga I'm ice cold nigga and that why they get the AIDS ending
>>741369950>omen are a curse by the hornsent Grandham on Marika's bloodlineno they arent, there were omens in the hornsent culture before marika even existed
>>741370351What don't you understand? The game explains literally everything.
>>741370448>The game explains literally everything.where s the gloam eyed queen, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>741370165>listen to dialog (difficult for retards)>read item descriptions (impossible for retards)>pay attention to the enviornment and what is visually shown to you (esoteric wisdom to the mind of a retard)Basically don't be retarded
>>741368234DELIRIOUS DOO-DOO DEVOURER
>>741370506Sealed inside Melina
>>741370236Fromsoft doesn't know how to do quests, that's no fault of mine
>>741370441No, there were lamenters and curseblades. They weren't omen, omen are specifically the cursed beings born from Marika as a result of the grandam beseeching a god to curse Marika and her bloodline. The mechanism of flooding the system with angry past spirits is the same, but the actual method of creation is different. >>741370506Trying too hard lil buddy.
>>741370672>men are specifically the cursed beings born from Marika as a result of the grandam beseeching a god to curse Marika and her bloodlineeveryone can give birth to omens, is such a common occurrence that the entire sewers are filled with them, it isnt unique to marika
>>741370769Mimic Veil is called Marika's Mischief. Marika is the mother or father to all omen in the lands between.
>>741370304>their debased naturejarring isnt sunshine and rainbows but lets not LARP like Marika created any more genial of an empire. they cursed marika because they were sore about getting genocided. >Dungeater wears a talisman from the Hornsent crusadesthis is interesting, and something i hadn't noticed. so its clear then that he was aware of the hornsent somehow. i disagree with the rest though, hornsent dogma and erdtree humanocentrism are nearly identical in their opinion and methodology. i think the simplest explanation is the easiest. Dung Eater felt rejected by humanity, and decided to abandon them for the opposition force. only, there's none left, so he's instead inspired by what he sees and knows, their cursed, deformed ancestors.
>>741370448answer any of the questions i already asked with quotes from the game and i'll be satisfied. otherwise, i'll continue to assume you're propping fancanon up on a pedestal.
>>741370851There are a few context clues as to how the hornsent are culturally in the DLC but it might be too esoteric for you like >>741370529 states.>talking to the hornsent grandam gives you tons of dialogue>some of this dialogue has her tell you she is fine with you killing her if you want when she thinks you are housing the divine beast in you>when you attack the shadow hornsent commoners they will bow down and grovel to you>the hornsent never achieved anything higher than housing a spirit in dual warriors, when they tried to go higher they got cursed people>when the hornsent found out about the spirit world their first aha moment with that knowledge was making guided missiles out of themThe hornsent are trash people and they will never fight against the system they will happily exist within it at the dregs and work the cogs fucking up reality in the long run. >>741370975What question did you ask?
>>741370841>Mimic Veil is called Marika's Mischief>that means she gave birth to thousands of omensthe game tells us that the different noble families gave birth to omen kids and how they treated them, are you saying marika was going thru their houses, swapped their kids with omens without anyone noticing?
>>741368234He misunderstood where Omens came from and probably created a curse that was far more abominable.
>>741370165Reading is pointless without thinking about what you've read. All of the lore is there in the item descriptions, it's up to you to take those context clues and use the power of thought to put them together to see the bigger picture.Or just watch VaatiVidya like everyone else did. Everyone fuckin' lies about having pieced all the lore together themselves lmao. I remember before VaatiVidya started making those videos literally nobody ever said Dark Souls had a good story, they didn't even know it HAD a story before youtube showed it to them
>>741371161>that means she gave birth to thousands of omensCorrect. Those families were being groomed by Marika without them knowing.
>>741371209>. I remember before VaatiVidya started making those videos literally nobody ever said Dark Souls had a good storybased retard, vaati started his videos by stealing the lore from here and reddit
>>741368327Is that an allegory for something?
>>741369950The hornsent deserved worse than what happened to them
>>741368234this guy is FUCKED
>>741371272>marika was going house to house swapping normal kids for omens like an evil santa claus>the nobles just threw the kids to the seweres anyways
>>741371209>All of the lore is there in the item descriptionsA good portion of it is in the world environment and that part seems to filter people. You might be able to read evry item description about erdtree and the craftable items that come from it without realizing the tree is literally eating people and shitting them out, but walking around the game world and going into hero tombs makes it pretty clear.
>>741371306>hornsent lost the war>mesmer didnt even torture them afterwards
>>741371469Killing their divine beasts and then making them live under his rule is torture. The flymen affliction manifests after they get subjugated and they have time to think about their lot in life.
>>741371106this reads like deus vult tradcath larping. and even with all of that being true it doesn't invalidate my claim, so i have to assume you don't actually care about what we're discussing at all, and were just looking for a launchboard to talk about how much you want to kill the hornniggers.
>>741371209>All of the lore is there in the item descriptions,nope
THE SINISTER SHIT SLURPER
>>741371745So you have nothing to add but kvetching?
>>741371648>Killing their divine beasts and then making them live under his rule is tortureno is not, thats the bare minimum, mesmer needed to start picking them up and skin them alive
Why are the doors of the Capitol sealed with amber?
>>741371106give me the quote that explains what the elden ring did to the world before its shattering, what breaking it did, and what mending it will do.
>>741371810Perfumers were tasked with cleanup duty of the city after the dragon attack. You can see an amber gemstone on their waistcloth. Perfumers existed as apothecaries before the numerous wars turned them into chemist agent orange enjoyers. The game shows a few instances of waxy material being used as a sealing agent that also functions as religious symbol.
I just gave the first seedbed curse to the doo doo man on my first (blind) playthrough and I got to say, the worldbulding is arcane even compared to other fromslop games. I have no idea why undeads exist in this universe. I have no idea what a Tarnished is or why there are actual humans from human realms in this land that apparently is for gods and demigods.
>>741371807i cant add anything because you didn't. you didn't counter my point. unless you want me to list off all the evil shit the golden order did, but i'd just be summarizing the game. their comparative moral standing is a matter of opinion and irrelevant.
>>741372105>I have no idea why undeads exist in this universeyou can thank ranni for that i forgive her
>>741368234He's the opposite of gold mask. Instead of trying fix the GO system by repairing its flaws, he's exploiting it's flaws to male them meaningless. Basically if everyone is cursed then no one is.
>>741371990You gotta look at the game as a whole for that. The elden ring is a manifestation of the will to rule reality, literally. Magic and faith fuel all things in this setting and it flows along natural balanced streams along the cycles of life and death of reality. The elden ring before shattering dictated this flow of energy where the ringbearer wanted it to order their empire. When broken this stream of runes and spirits is disrupted which throws the cosmic balance of scales off. People that die aren't brought to a spirit shelter, runes from those dead aren't divvied up along natural systems they are funneled into specific things to fuel them instead of keep thy system rotating. As a result you have less being paid into your future 401k than you are drawing from it.
>>741372065Wasn't the dragon attack ages ago?
>>741371291He's the ultimate White savior/noble savage fetishist in The Lands Within.
>>741372105>I have no idea what a Tarnished is or why there are actual humans from human realms in this land that apparently is for gods and demigods.isnt that explained by melina? tarnished are just humans, followers of godfrey whom marika took their grace and told them fuck off for a few centuries>>741372105>I have no idea why undeads exist in this universethey exist because ranni half killed his brother, thanks ranni
>>741371272Anon, she's not the BIOLOGICAL mother of all omens. She's just responsible for their existence and suffering.
>>741372347Everything was ages ago. Redmanes have been feeding corpses to Radahn for 5000 years canonically. You gotta take the game for what it is, the game tells you the perfumers were the clean up crew and some of them became depraved perfumers because of the wars. They have ptsd and are starting to act like hornsent.
>>741372105You're supposed to play this game like an explorer who just landed on fresh shores desu, that's the best way to enjoy it. Trying to piece anything coherent during your first playthrough is just going to lead to headache after headache. As gay as it sounds, just go by vibes at first, and if something in particular interests you, look more into it.
>>741369950>hornsent and omen aren't the same thingHi, don't mind me.Or the Crucible knights.
>>741369649omens, my bpoint of the ending still standa, for one of the more interesting endings they could have portrayed literally all that happens is the sky changes color iirc, but again i only played it once
>>741372840i don't
>>741372878oh yeah, the mending rune endings are really underwhelming
The game offered a good world for roleplay potential that is all I cared about.
>>741371209faggot vaati did nothing but steal what other people "pieced together" or assumed what the lore washe knows jack shit and fed every headcanon to youtube retards
>>741368234The Dung Eater's ending basically creates a supercharged version of the Hornsent Grandam's curse on Marika and the Golden Order's children and applies it to all people. The Dung Eater is also likely supported by the Formless Mother to some extent, considering the Bloodflame overlap with the Omens as seen in Morgott's boss fight and the description of Mohg being besotted with the same curse he was born into, as well as the Outer God Heirloom's description, the Bloodfiends and the Lamenter, etc. The Dung Eater basically creates a hellscape where everyone suffers from the Formless Mother.
>>741372634That's literally what I've been doing, but as I just got an interaction with the doo doo defiler I had to check out the thread. >>741372416Well, the implications that Tarnished can live for centuries sets them apart from humans, doesn't it? I guess the only human I've been talking to was the noble that wanted his fort back, though. And I noticed that he had golden eyes, so mabye humans in this universe are different from ours.
>>741368234The only good ending desu
>>741372105>I have no idea why undeads exist in this universe. It's implied that everyone living under grace was largely deathless. This is why the tarnished come back to life after having grace returned to them. But while we're new to the party everyone else has been forced to live through all this shit indefinitely which is why almost everyone looks and acts like a fucked up zombie. The only actual undead are those connected to Godwyns dead/alive corpse.
>>741373026>the cleric beast is lawrence>if you disagree with mee ill send my retarded followers to atack youuui remember he got invited to a podcast with other youtubers and he was unable to follow the conversations, retard is a larper with a nice voice>>741373083>Well, the implications that Tarnished can live for centuries sets them apart from humans, doesn't it? I guess the only human I've been talking to was the noble that wanted his fort back, though. And I noticed that he had golden eyes, so mabye humans in this universe are different from ours.tarnished have a normal lifespan after they lost their grace, they actually died, godfrey, gideon, etc are shown as dead or reviving during the intro, your character included, after the tarnished were given their grace back by marika, they got the respawn powers which according to miyazaki in an interview is different than the inmortality the demigods have
So was he really eating ass from the front, or was he more just ripping out & defiling their souls
>>741369563Souls games almost always have extremely lackluster final cutscenes. It's a little frustrating.
>>741373083>Well, the implications that Tarnished can live for centuries sets them apart from humans, doesn't it?It would, if there wasn't a fucked up Daga situation with the blessing of the sap, vs plucking the Rune of Death later.The demigod situation is even weirder, because as its implied, it thins out further from Marika. And Melina basically says that Lands Between people are born from sap and not sex.
>>741369916i dont trust literal two faced bitches
>>741373267is probably an allegory to the kappas or the headless from sekiro stealing your shirikodama thru your ass
>>741373083If marika likes you she can resurrect you as many times as needed, she only stops when you show you are hopeless for her plans. >>741373267He was telling them how shit reality actually is until they sided with him, everyone you find with the curse are tied to chairs like they are being mk ultra interrogated. Eating shit is about swallowing the harsh truths everyone else has convinced themselves to ignore so they can live good lives in a fucked up system.
>>741369786>haven’t been able to pull anything significant lore-wise out of this gameWhat are you talking about? All of the significant stuff is spelled out in the game itself. And I've seen some great lore videos. Not a ton, but some.
>>741372345very well written, for what it's worth, even if im not fully convinced. are you saying then that the elden ring only has control over the spiritual aspects of reality? because even in the shattering, with skeletons walking around and zombie corpses fuzed into the roots day still follows night, and when you jump up for fall down. there seem to be aspects of existence that are infallible and separate from the lord's will or even the state of the ring. which, to my point, excludes the elden ring as a significant aspect of the fantasy world creation myth, which is irritating since its talked about as if it is.
>>741373004Me? I roleplay as a thrice exiled rapist vagabond knight with faint memories of his life prior to waking up in the Lands Between. His ideals long shattered, he'll sell his sword for a meal, while sharpening his dagger for their backs
>>741370304That's not a talisman from Messmer's crusade. The Dung Eater likely fashioned that giant metal sun based on his own deranged, poorly perceived idea of the Great Rune he's creating and that the Formless Mother might be guiding him to create.
>>741371469I am sure that he tortured the individuals in charge of the crimes against humanity or something, but why would he throw the entire population in torture chambers? Who has time for that?
>>741368378No he's absolutely loathsome.
>>741373498>but why would he throw the entire population in torture chambers? because they tortured and genocided his mothers people>Who has time for that?he does, he is literally trapped in the shadowlands for all eternity
>>7413724895000 years and they're still cleaning up? Just based on the level design/set dressing, it looks like the Shattering happened no more than 50 years ago. Why are there still artillery craters in the Altus Plateau after 5000 years?
>>741373558>fucked up my greentext
>>741373386I know, but that doesn't answer my question. Is he ripping the doodoo soul out with his hands, or is he digging in like a black man with a watermelon on the fourth of july?
>>741373630>5000 years and they're still cleaning up? Just based on the level design/set dressing, it looks like the Shattering happened no more than 50 years ago. Why are there still artillery craters in the Altus Plateau after 5000 years?i dont know, ask fat martin that he is the one who gave the years in an interview, i agree that the shattering happened 5000 years before the start of the game is stupid
>>741371291Trannies who try to change in women's locker rooms
>>741373393>>>741373267 (You)>He was telling them how shit reality actually is until they sided with him, everyone you find with the curse are tied to chairs like they are being mk ultra interrogated. Eating shit is about swallowing the harsh truths everyone else has convinced themselves to ignore so they can live good lives in a fucked up system.That doesn't explain the bloody groins
>>741373721whatever feels most degenerate at the time
>>741368234The implications that Giants, Dragons etc. all deserve determination but not omen because hecking discrimination is some pretty weak world-building.Like even from a pro-woke perspective it's doesn't scan.
>>741373729Death of the author. If it doesn't say 5000 years in-game, it doesn't count.
>>741373630>>741373729The figure of 5,000 years probably goes back to either the start of known history in the setting when Farum Azula was already crumbling, or that's just when Marika became a god. The most recent event of the Shattering, the Battle of Aeonia, likely didn't happen 5,000 years ago, nor would Vyke being fooled by the Frenzied Flame and Bernahl's Finger Maiden causing the first burning of the Erdtree have been that long ago.
>>741373813I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say, but Omens are literal mutant freaks.
>>741373404>are you saying then that the elden ring only has control over the spiritual aspects of reality?It appears so. If you look at what changes Marika made to the ring itself you can kind of get what the ring was supposed to do (you have to already know about the body/soul/spirit triumvirate though). Under normal systems you have >body - houses the spirit and runes>runes - actions accrued in life paying for the future divvied out appropriately on death>spirit - the essence of the self that goes to the spirit shelter on death, possibly to be reincarnated laterMarika removes death which makes runes able to flow differently on death, and she installs a false rune of the unborn at the beginning of the chain so no one looking into it will be the wiser, except the new born are being born spiritless and acting like retards as a result. If you look at the dragon incarnation of the ring you see it not meddled with like Marika and all we know of their reign was they fostered the crucible traits of claw, wing, horn, blah blah blah which itself mirrors how the natural flow of runes would move if only slightly nudged to uplift certain animals. If you use the will and representation view the ring is a representation of the will of the bearer's view on life, and because magic rocks and faith based willpower dictate how things are in this setting the way they view the world can become real thru their modification of the proxy ring. >>741373768Cock and ball torture is part of the fun.
>>741370672No, Omen aren't all from Marika. They're a natural occurence. Back in the day it was considered a blessing, but when the Golden Order took over, it became seen as a curse.
>>741370672nta but this argument is kind of BS since "curse" and "omen" are both 忌み in the Japanese script.
>>741373898>The figure of 5,000 years probably goes back to either the start of known history in the setting when Farum Azula was already crumbling, or that's just when Marika became a god. The most recent event of the Shattering, the Battle of Aeonia, likely didn't happen 5,000 years ago, nor would Vyke being fooled by the Frenzied Flame and Bernahl's Finger Maiden causing the first burning of the Erdtree have been that long ago.unfortunately the fat guy was pretty clear, the shattering was 5,000 years before the start of the game
>>741373813(Me)*all deserve extermination>>741373908I mean the critical perspective implied by Dung Eater's arc.
>>741373947Both are a form of a geas which they are derived from for this game. Not unlike Feanor's geas with his sons that warp reality when made.
>>741373969The Shattering is part of the backstory, which begins 5,000 years before the events of the game itself. The backstory starts that far back, not necessarily the Shattering, and Martin might have exaggerated the number for the sake of the interview to boot.
>>741373931Its like the godlike features from Avowed, where certain people are born with crazy features that are seen as a blessing and/or a curse. Most characters in the game see it as a curse since it's so freaky, but I suppose that the Hornsent were more religious like Muslims as opposed to Christians.
>>741368234mmmm shitty poopies yummy nom nom nom sccceeerumptious nom nom nom
>>741374136>knowing anything about AvowedDie in a fire.
>>741374136Hornsent see it as a blessing because the wildlife that predated on them with ease all had horns so they saw it as a symbol of primacy. When they started getting horns they saw that as a sign that they too had that primal oomph in them and it gave them a false sense of honor.
>>741373813Giants and Dragons are hostile races that pose a direct threat to the Erdtree with their fire. Omens are just more like disfigured/mutated/disabled people.
>>741374224>he didn't play the game to see what all the fuss was all aboutI only put a few hours into the game, but you pretty much play as an Omen. What's funny is that there's a cosmetic setting to hide your Godlike features in-game if you want to look normal, but NPCs still act like they can see them.
>>741374235>Giants and Dragons are hostile races that pose a direct threat to the Erdtree with their fire.i disagree, the giants lived pretty peacefully with the astrologers, marika was the one who attacked them because their fel god could burn the erdtreedragons deserve being genocided for betraying placidusax
>>741374235Omens harness bloodFLAME when they get pissed off enough and they as a race are housing pissed off spirits that scream intrusive thoughts into them 24/7 by a PMS dommy mommy goddess of suffering.
>>741373916We have no reason to believe that the Great Rune of the Unborn is false. That rune being smaller than the rest implies that Marika didn't make it a 50/50 split from the Elden Ring and the large majority of that particular rune is still in the Elden Ring itself, which could help explain Rennala's struggles with using it (also, it might truly just be for the unborn, not the reborn). Marika had to sneak that Great Rune out in an earlier era for Radagon to give to Rennala. The other Great Runes are probably split in a 50/50 way after Marika shattered the Elden Ring, and at that point Marika didn't care if the Elden Beast would try to kick her ass.
>>741374229Oh, interesting. And then I suppose that the Golden Order values "sophistication" and whatnot more, so they want to distance themselves from beasts instead.
People say the dung eater dooms those he descreates to eternal suffering... but what exactly does it mean specifically?Like is it hell level being in the fiery pits 24/7?Is it brazen bull status?Or is it as always some convoluted symbolic bs left open to interpretation?
>>741374318Sure, but that was certainly under the order of the Greater Will, which may be why Marika ended rebelling against it. She didn't want to kill the Giants, but the GW made her do it.
>>741368234>elden ring ""lore""lol
>>741374350Well that's why they're locked away usually. But they're still family. Back in medieval times, killing your own family was extremely taboo so you would just lock them away in a dungeon if you hated them. Like a king would do that to his brother, and put an iron mask on him so the prison guards wouldn't know its the king's brother.
>>741374448What if the people he gaped deserved it?
>>741374452do we know when the GW fucked off to space?
>>741374574Yeah, Metyr lore fills the gap in there.
>>741374574Well the DLC retcons it and says that the Greater Will was never really present, and the Two Fingers were just bullshitting. But I like to believe the base game where we know exactly when the GW fucks off, it's when the Fingers in the Roundtable go straight up.
>>741374448when the dungeater sucks your ass you get cursed and get kicked off of the golden order reincarnation cycle, this also affects all your descendants
>>741368234I have 300 hours in this game and have not a single clue what is going on story wise
>>741374692Nothing is really retconned, the base game made it pretty clear the 2 fingers were always bullshitting anyway. Their system is set up like a ponzi scheme and they mysteriously stop having any clue on what to do when someone gets further than they planned.
>>741374235I'm operating on a Doylist level, where identifying "hostile races" is a choice of the author.It's clearly circular logic.
>>741374383Nah, Marika just hates the Hornsent, they killed her people so she killed them in return but because Omens are a natural occurrence the killing continue
>>741374763But what are the odds that after all this time, they just suddenly run out of ideas and admit that they can't get in touch with the Greater Will?
>>741370351>it's all set dressing.Welcome to Fromslop. I'm not sure why you expected anything else.
>>741373813Nowhere in the game does it say that giants and dragons are deserving of extermination. The mountaintop is intentionally painted somberly, the scene of a mass execution.
>>741374741You're probably a retard then.
>>741374824Why can't it be both?
>>741374843Pretty good, their system was feeding people to a tree in death pretty reliably until the player shows up and doesn't die. The last 2 guys that ever got that close both got blackpilled by learning about the world and gave up, the player canonically doesn't.
>>741374884>Nowhere in the game does it say that giants and dragons are deserving of exterminationin the dlc is explained why the followers of placidusax are killing dragons fuck bayle, backstabbing cunt
>>741374884Dragons are shown in a pretty sympathetic light too. There are only like 5 ancient dragons with brains left and they are getting bullied on by fucked up bestial dragon broods.
>>741374884I didn't spell out my point far enough.Dung Eater's presence in the game is to give voice to this oppressed class. We don't get the same for giants or dragons, e.g. there isn't a Dragon Cultist ending.I agree that the portrayal of fantasy genocide is somber, but structurally they don't get the same care because they aren't as directly analogous to human ableism or whatever you think omen are about.
>>741375116>We don't get the same for giants or dragonsIji for giants (trolls are lesser giants)fortissax for dragons, you might not be sympathetic when you learn the truth.
>>741369778Like a true channer
>>741372979>most endings are just different colors of sky>Mass Effect got in huge trouble for that but Elden Ring gets away with it
>>741369778
>>741374937Maybe, the GO were a bunch of asshold but Marika had personal beef with the Hornset so they were always in the chopping block.
>>741375347>>Mass Effect got in huge trouble for that but Elden Ring gets away with itbecause we have the ranni and the frenzied flame with the melina variation endingif all of them were just different sky colors they would have shitted on er toothe most common ending is the ranni one
>>741375347Mass Effect only had color swap endings, ER has real endings on top of the color swap endings.
>>741373083>I guess the only human I've been talking to was the noble that wanted his fort back, though.Rodericka isn't a Tarnished either, she was lied to and sent out to her death.But Kennith Haight seems to be the only person from the Lands Between we meet who's sane, not a Tarnished, and doesn't or go crazy. He's also only of the only people with a last name.
>>741373004BASEDmy first run was a pyromqncer priest who exclusively used axes and all forms of fire spells for combat
>>741368234>What was he trying to do?He was trying to doodoo
>>741370165>I finished elden ring twice and I still have no idea what any of the npc characters want or what the endings mean
>>741373267I think the idea is he would eat their asshole, which is where buddhist think the soul is (retarded idea but whatever) and then shid it out and put it back while they were still alive
>>741368234He's an insane Omen larper, or perhaps he is the one true omen? His goal was to spread the omen curse. People who think it's about correcting "negative views on omens" are wrong, he is a complete and utter monster. He kills you and likely rapes your corpse. We aren't shown what the curse spreading ritual is like but based on the sounds he makes when we offer him a pox and Japanese cultural memes involving the placement of the soul and his name "Dung-eater, We are likely shoving the pox directly up his ass.>>741369245>>741369740>>741369563>>741369856>>741370441>>741372840Hornsent being Omen is a common misunderstanding. Hornsent are people touched by the crucible albeit less than Misbegotten. When Hornsent were being pogromed in Prospect Village they saw the Formless Mother in the shadows of their corpse-gods and became Bloodfiends, marking a pact between the people and the outer god.Omen are a curse combining the wrath of the hornsent with the bloodfiend transformation, as evident by Omen's possessing burning blood and resembling blood fiends (large dark skinned ogres) except with excessive horns.It's pretty evident, as no living hornsent remotely resembles an Omen, but bloodfiends look like the horn exercised variant, as with the aforementioned item descriptions establishing a direct connection.
>>741375770>Rodericka isn't a Tarnished eitherhey, we arent sure of that, sure, she never saw grace, sure, she has never died and came back to life, sure, the only reason she is on the lands between is because her family wanted to get rid of her, but she can still be a tarnished
>>741375996>Hornsent being Omen is a common misunderstanding.There is no misunderstanding. The game makes it very clear and there is an ending attached to it.
>>741375996>never said the omen and hornsent were the same>still got quoted
>>741368378fan favorite? That would be a strange way of putting it.He is a very compelling character. First of all, his name is fucking "Dung-Eater" which is insane, but then you play the game and he is the most outright chaotic evil person probably ever put into a Fromsoft game. He is actually worse than the Dark Wraiths. Guy is sadistic and there are multiple NPCs that mention him, including one who is a hardened criminal that outright fears him. He taunts you in the game, and you find his crazed body in the sewers bashing his own head against the wall until it is bloody. Lots of striking imagery and seriousness... all for a guy named Dung Eater.
>>741375996don't curseblades have that dark blackened skin like the omens and bloodfiends do
>>741374235The Formless Mother a pain god that very likely hated the Erdtree for its healing powers. It's threat isn't destroying the Erdtree, it's ruining its people. Mohg was the most dedicated to the formless Mother's will and what did he use her power for? Killing the weak and rewarding the strong with tainted blood.
ER is a game entirely made for fluff.I played it twice and literally nothing but Ranni's route has any narrative memorability. It's a mire of pointless details with no substance or real story.
>>741370236>>741375987I couldn't tell you the lore of this game either, not really. I mean I know the general story of trying to become lord, that everything is the result of Marika or whatever her name is constantly fucking other people or herself and everyone is her kid and they fight and then you and your doll waifu fuck off to space. Add in Miquella or whatever his name is as a wild card in the DLC with his followers trying to take over the ring and make everyone his bussy slave.But I did not glean anything past that. I don't even know what the Hornsent are? Isn't that a guy from the DLC?
>>741376378I agree though that’s a glass half empty way to look at it. I’d say it’s more like a game where you can appreciate individual aspects of lore building but you need to be mentally prepared for that aspect to never fold into a greater whole in a satisfying way.
>>741376105Collateral damage on mass repliers quest for get everyone to pay attention to him
Elden ring feels like it's just a remix if tropes taken from other fromslop games.
>>741374824>>741374937Because we have a knife that is named Five Fingers in Italian. It implies Ascension from beasthood is fully possible, with no downside.>>741374692DLC doesn't as much retcon it, as add to the flavor text of the Fingerslaying blade, and what it was used for.Which again implies WHEN the Fingers went from amazing orators to drolling retards.
>>741376660It does, which makes it strange that they hyped up bringing in an outside author
>>741376756fat george only did the background of the characters and the world, from did the story of the game which is why it feels similar to old games
>>741376743I don’t know what your reply is meant to prove or disprove. The cinquedea (or whatever) is from farum azula. It’s symbolic of the dragons uplifting the beast men to sapience. Its does prove that evolution of some mind is a thing but it has nothing to do with Marika or the golden order’s opinions,
>>741376743>with no downside.They began to suffer abstractly once they realized there was a world outside of hunting and eating things. There is always a price to pay.
>>741376550yea im a brainlet as well don't fret
>>741376105Your reputation on this anonymous imageboard is now forever stained.
>>741376056The game does not make it very clear they're the same, it shows the opposite. Not a single Hornsent npc resembles an omen. They look like humans with small to elaborate horns on their head.Nothing about Dungeaters ending shows a relation. You remove a gestated mending rune resemble a bloody spikey ring and curse every soul with omenism.The entire purpose of the bloodfiend enemy is show you Hornsent are not Omen. I swear this is bait because people like you jump through crazy hoops to deny this like claiming its just coincidence that Mohg AND Morgott have formless mother blood.>>741376218They are hornsent that were trying to ascend into minor gods through ritual (Those headless corpses) but failed and were shunned by Hornsent society for their failure, imprisoned but then released on Mesmer's army. They do have dark skin yes, but so do those corpses so that may be why. I wouldn't consider it evidence they are Omen or Omen related.As I said, Omen are with the exception of Morgott, Dark skinned ogres with painful horns growing from their flesh. They have sharp teeth, red eyes and are generally inhuman looking even with the horns exercised. Their features are very close with bloodfiends, including their sharp teeth.Every hornsent you face is just a human with crazy horns and Curseblades look like that. Slender human anatomy with horns only on their head. Every Hornsent in fact, only has horns on their head even their holiest monks found in Enir Illum.
>>741377335>The game does not make it very clear they're the sameIt does though. We've already discussed the numerous links.
>>741371810It's likely corpse wax, it's the same colour you see on the gargoyles and their weapons. They probably used it to block out the ash from the first time the Erdtree as burned.
>>741377512>she's still tryingkek
>>741377379>>741377564Oh hey the schizo is STILL doing the same shit he's been doing for the last three years. Go away schizo.
>>741377704>meltdownuh oh
>>741376016So you're saying absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence?
>>741377379>nuh uh im nta but thats weak sauce. there's much more evidence in this thread to the opposite.if they're the same you have no explanation for the spirits haunting the omen, or where they were back during the hornsent empire. you have no explanation for why omen have lumpy, black skin but most hornsent don't. you have no explanation for why the game goes out of its way to call it a curse, then show a powerful hornsent witch curing makira. meanwhile, your examples ITT just seems to be a list of characters with approximately omenish appearance with nothing deeper to it.
>>741377564Huh? Did I miss something?
>>741377828k>>741377858She's still trying to push her memes.
>>741369778My FUARKING hero
>>741377704i wonder if this is the same guy who used to say the crucible was literally a giant smelting pot. probably not, his replies are way more low effort>>741377858its just some retard ignore him
>>741371291unironically, niggers
>>741377792all im saying is that we can let her believe whatever she wants
>>741377858A lolcow has been trying to get humiliated and now that he has he is very upset about it. This happens a few times a day on other board and /v/ has to deal with it.
>>741376962>>741374383>It’s symbolic of the dragons uplifting the beast men to sapienceYes, but >Oh, interesting. And then I suppose that the Golden Order values "sophistication" and whatnot more, so they want to distance themselves from beasts instead.They don't need to. Dragons already did that, and it seems the remaining uplifted beasts are just turbo enslaved by this point. More interestingly, the only actual Beastmen in the game is... Gurrag and Blaigh.
>>741378012Fair enough
>>741374947>The last 2 guys that ever got that close both got blackpilled by learning about the world and gave upVyke and who else?
>>741378802Not him but Bernahl probably, I remember reading that he lost faith after he burned his maiden
>>741378874it was his brother>O Greater Will, hear my voice. I am the recusant Bernahl, inheritor of my brother's will, and you will fall to my blade.>We refuse to become your pawns. Consider this fair warning.
>>741379002Oh cool I didn't notice that
>>741378435every beastman of farum azula is a beastman. its just that in the waning of the dragonlord's age they lost whatever thrall was over them, and they slipped back into primal instinct. but the physical changes are still present. they still have their five fingered hands and can swing a sword at us. blaidd and malakith are shadow beasts. Marika as the new new god now holds the power to enlighten beasts, and she exclusively uses it to create a caste of butler bodyguards for her empyrean court.anyways, the other anon is still correct. there's tons of quotes about it, mostly pertaining to the crucible. the golden order values distance between their animalistic past and their more refined present.
>>741379147i was checking and it might be both his maiden and whatever happened to his brother>Silver armor engraved with tiny beasts. Worn by Bernahl the Recusant.>Beasts are drawn to champions, and to lords. And this armor befits a champion worthy of becoming a lord. And that is what Bernahl was.>Until his maiden threw herself into the fire.
>>741377858 All Elden Ring threads have two to three schizophrenic retards.One is the Godwyn Coper who hasn't been seen for a while, a guy who was so mad about the DLC not being about Godwyn he hallucinated an idea that the DLC was made about him before From cut all that content, reskinned the Godwyn fight into Scadutree Avatar and forced Radahn through the door all for reddit upvotes.The second is "Eric" or "Name Schizo", a mentally ill person who actually harasses many game threads (LoZ, BGIII). In Elden Ring threads he does this thing where he pretends random people are actually some sort of "lolcow" usually identified as somebody he wants /v/ to harass, with the last two years being about some random faggot going by Dragonirian, whom "Eric" hates for insulting his beloved Baldur's Gate III. The third is pretty obviously the second, dubbed "Sunrealm schizo", this faggot basically wrote out his own lore bible for Elden Ring with the intention of it being contrarian to everything. He has inconsistent interpretations and theories that bait everyone who's ever played the game into arguing with him.The game could straight up say Ranni is Renalla's daughter and he'd come up with an elaborate story about how she's actually the Dark Moon fused with the Gloam eyed queen who was created through the amber egg with a silver tear.Because he's always in the same threads as "Eric" they are highly likely the same fag.
>>741379230sunrealm schizo's my favorite. at least he puts effort into his insanity.
>>741378874>>741379002>BernahlReal shame there wasn't an ending where you could side with Rykard.>>741379224So if his maiden used herself as kindling, how come the Erdtree isn't on fire?
>>741379172>Marika as the new new god now holds the power to enlighten beasts, and she exclusively uses it to create a caste of butler bodyguards for her empyrean court.isnt that a power from the 2 fingers? marika is fucked up unable to do anything during the main game and yet the 2 fingers make blaidd go insane
>>741378802Bernahl. He got more blackpilled than Vyke.
>>741379462>So if his maiden used herself as kindling, how come the Erdtree isn't on fire?lots of people believe the erdtree was set on fire before but wasnt burned down completely, thats why half of leyndell is covered in ashes
>>741379230>The second is "Eric"He posts with the OPs from /vg/ and says he comes here when they trigger them there. He's on the money at least.
>>741379320True, but he is also complete cancer as all lore discussion is bogged down by 500 posts about him saying "No, that thing you provided evidence for is wrong, let me write out this long tedious schizo shit about Elden Ring's metaphysics that won't make any fucking sense, I hope you spend the next 15 minutes discrediting it only for me to reply "lol no' and keep denying facts"You can't defeat autism without stronger autism.
>>741379510No, the 2 fingers don't do anything except make sure the succession of the ring happens. In doing that they structure a society that in turn uplifts those around them, because those uplifted are going to be used in the future succession of the ring. Did you notice all the GO holy heirloom weeapons were left in Demi-human caves?
>>741379510the shift from beastmen being an entire slave race to a special elite cast of royal protectors had to be a conscious change made by marika back before the shattering. the 2 fingers just supports the status quo, which in this post shattering age is still the remains of the order she established. if we're splitting hairs, marika, and every ages god is just channeling 2 fingers power to begin with, but the shape of their order is still their to decide.
>>741379794*theirs*
>>741379224You can assume his brother went on the same quest and died so he went on the quest for his brother and also fails. Everyone has to take on Marika's burdens and it sucks.
>>741379578>lots of people believeThey don't, that is why your posts are so desperate on top of being wrong. The tree burning is a prophecy to happen.B-butNo.
>>741379771>Did you notice all the GO holy heirloom weeapons were left in Demi-human caves?Explain this like I'm retarded
the game makes a lot of noise about how we as the elden lord will get to decide the new age. but point of fact is that the only lord before us that wasn't also a god in a rubber mask had basically no agency at all. Godfrey, for all his hype, was marika's lapdog. he killed who she wanted to kill, then left when ordered. then the next elden lord was Radagon, who even as an aspect of marika could push policy like fundamentalism, but had no sway over the construction of the ring itself.it seems like the only reason we receive anything beyond ceremonial power at the end is that Marika is too enfeebled by her crucifixion to micromanage us.
>>741380160Why is the capital filled with ash, then?
>>741380243Someone in the GO is already planning for the next cycle and sees this one as a wash so they are setting the demi-humans up as pro GO from the outset so they can groom them to control the populace better next go around. >>741380278Its almost like the go it alone messaging of the bear warriors is the real deal even though people will laugh at you. >>741380359Dragon attack.
>>741380243i think hes implying that the fingers are grass roots psi-oping a campaign for a demihuman / misbegotten lord to take over after the human empires fall, but i don't think that's the case. the connection between misbegotten and the golden order is left over dead lore, back from when they were called the children of radagon. (also why leonines are red)
>>741380430>Its almost like the go it alone messaging of the bear warriors is the real deal even though people will laugh at you.did you have a stroke?
>>741380278I view it as a nicer re-iteration of From Softs standard endings, with the most parallel being the Chosen Undead.Yes ultimately the Elden Lord is just a title for Marika's husband, serving a reagent of the people while she delves into divine affairs.But in most endings it's implied the new Elden Lord got things done. Whether this is because Marika simply went along with it or she really is just in a state of half-death as a broken statue remains unknown.I'd like to think that with the ring repaired, her body would eventually regenerate too (The erdtree heals in most endings), but that's just the gooner in me.
>>741380632No, the dlc reveals that you can find your own god out alone in the wilderness without anyone influencing you but people laugh at it because the systems set up are designed to have someone else control you. It is part of the overall messaging the game has been telling you since the base game. You are going to be controlled if you play the ring game, so don't play it and find your own god and become something on your own.
Quality build = Pleroma
>>741380751The Bear guys are laughed at because the idea of going out into the wilderness to learn bear powers is a silly imitation of Dragon Communion. Where does it say they found a new god?
>>741380879They are laughed at because it allows you to not need to link up with someone that will control you. It is social engineering to prevent people from going off reservation.
>>741380160So what happened to Bernahl's maiden?
>>741380879Godfrey was a bear warrior before he got mixed up with Marika. Look at how his potential was stimmied under her.
>>741380751oh, i just didn't understand your syntax for a second but i see now. though i don't personally think bear warrior LARPing vs channeling the actual will of a living god is a favorable comparison. they're probably happier out there eating berries and stuff but they didn't literally discover a new god. it's more like they're refusing to play the game. but there's still only 1 game town that matters.
>>741380431>>741380243Loreschinzo theory:1. Radagon/Hewg was a giant, but a small one2. Marika offered divinity3. Radagon/Hewg creates an entire race of misbegotten, in order to create the final shell he is depicted having4. Finally creates the chiselled hunk we see ingame, and Radagon/Hewg is split into 2 people, his ambition vs his will, so Radagon is now small enough to later try to merge with Marika All this, to explain why all of Radaogns children have giant heritage, and thereby fucked up har color.But if it was ever intended, its another thing lost to ROM's funny content creation methodThe only other option is that Hewg used to be a gigant, but he got to make a better body for himself, and ended up trading it for slavery.
>>741381156She went to continue to mission without him when he began to falter under the weight of the mission. Finishing the mission is burning herself alive for his quest, which he didn't want to continue with.
>>741381307What happens when a maiden burns herself?
>>741381338Play elden ring to find out.
>>741381287>The only other option is that Hewg used to be a gigantThe most logical option is Marika's society were regressive luddites that didn't understand genetics like dragons or hornsent did. The game makes this abundantly clear. Marika was ruled by mental spooks that caged her options.
>>741381286I like to think there was a proto-gideon sitting in the bear warrior camp telling all the bear warriors that man can't kill a red bear. It simply isn't possible, it is our place to be killed by red bears.
>>741381073Ah I missed that. Yeah I see your point for the most part, but this is contextually a Marika problem. Marika wants you to worship the tree and one who controls the Elden Ring has the power to basically force that shit by editing the Elden Ring.It's just the way it is in the setting, the one who has the ring dictates the influence of other powers, so even if you were outside worshipper of that bear, or the Formless Mother, or Fell God, your powers are oppressed.
>>741381634Think of it like this though, when Marika was just an empyrean some other power was there dominating things. She still swooshed right in there and tricked God into giving her the power she wanted. Some guy suplexing a train at the right place at the right time could change everything. It ain't gonna happen playing by the rules.
>>741369563Ran out of budget, everything after Leyndell was made on shoestring leftovers.
>>741381874Doesn't really feel that way, you might just not have gotten the tone they were going for.
>>741381634To an extent, but Marika was largely controlled by the Greater Will, or at least the Two Fingers with their charade if you believe the retcon. That's the whole reason why she created the Radagon persona - to put all of the loyalty to the Greater Will in him so that she could rebel and shatter the Elden Ring to rid the Lands Between of the Greater Will's iron grip.
>>741381287I have a theory I don't even really accept that takes into account Miquella's ascension. Miquella needed an anchor according to the birch scroll ritual, it's clear that his godly form was ethereal in nature and not exactly physical. Once radhan dies he dies reinforcing this fact.This is reinforced by the Divine Lion. We are fight two jacked Hornsent in a costume but its stated they are literally being possessed by the lion.So this theory proposes that when Marika ascended, she had a champion serve as her anchor consort, the only difference is she possessed the consort's body and turned it into herself in the same sense Radhan turns Mohgs body into his own.This Consort being Radagon.But ultimately there are contradictions to this, I am making an assumption that just because Miq's god form looks ghostly it isn't physical and that the Divine lion didn't originally have a body. If gods don't normally have bodies, the Godskins wouldn't have material for their clothing. A lot of whats in the specimen room can clearly be seen as god-like.The game seems to keep it ambiguous if Gods have bodies or are spectral.
>>741382360>This Consort being Radagon.Can't be, Radagon was made during the Liurnian wars when Marika couldn't win without Godfrey leading the armies.
>>741381858She did that but the thing is, just because the ring holder says that's blasphemy doesn't mean you're breaking Metyr's rules. Metyr ultimately called the shots. The fingers have their own rule set it seems and none thought what Marika was doing as wrong.>>741381983Yeah but it seems as though the rules established by Metyr don't factor into what you do as god, but what you do against their system of succession.You can see the heavy Berserk influence with this. The godhand doesn't care what you do as an apostle, do as though wilt, but going against their causality? Trying to destroy their system that causes so many problems? You're fucked.
>>741368378He's easily the most bizarre character out of any fromsoft game, it's just a weird choice of character to design and nobody knows why they did it
>>741382360Pretty safe to assume the person that goes thru the gate 'dies' and what they come back as is just a shell to hold the immense power in the pleroma.>>741382626At the end of the day the agent (you) is calling the shots. The system is just set up from all sides to make the call for you, going bear route is realizing you can do something else not ascribed to you. The bear stuff just shows how far the system of control goes that even the cultural norms of 'bear communion' are ridicule. Even most of the people in the ending routes that think they are flipping the table actually aren't and they don't even know.
>>741382360Maybe, but Miq also spent the entire DLC shedding parts of himself.By that point, there might not be anything to go back to, which is the need for a consort. But yes, the theory plays expertly into the Radagon+Marika bullshit in the base game. Even more so since there are steps between Marika becoming divinity, and Marika hosting the Elden Ring.
>>741382360>The game seems to keep it ambiguous if Gods have bodies or are spectral.The only god you see is stuck inside a tree in a different dimension and uses a meatsleeve guy as his robot to interact with the world outside the tree. It isn't really ambiguous.
>>741382993>But yes, the theory plays expertly into the Radagon+Marika bullshit in the base gameThe base game tells you the constructed being shows up way after Marika ascends. She thinks him up after sending Godfrey away and starts losing wars against Liurnia.
>>741382793Well yeah Marika can't or isn't willing to prevent people from worshipping outer gods (Gods that represent powers denied by her modified Elden Ring). The only exception to this was sealing the Rune of Death and even then Apostles could extract a weak version of its power. This is also what pissed Miquella off about Marika which is why he started the unalloyed gold concept.
>>741383242>Well yeah Marika can't or isn't willing to prevent people from worshipping outer gods (Gods that represent powers denied by her modified Elden Ring).Thats because her true desire is to form a completeness with all religions being a fractal portion of the GW that the GO can bring together, but her mortal interests actually tend toward subjugation because she is fallible. The divide between what she wants and what she is can be gauged by Radagon.
>>741368327it's not really a suffering if suffering comes from getting bullied for being different
>>741383015The game keeps referencing Marika as having once appeared before her people so it wouldn't make sense if the moment she ascended she was always a ghost who absolutely needed Godfrey to physically interact with shit.Then game is pretty ambigious about how Gods work. We have Miqqy and the divine lions, but then we have some item descriptions that implied the Fell God had a body but now lives inside the kiln and inside the chests of Fire Giants.The formless Mother is obviously spectral/metaphysical but that may also literally just be unique to her.The Rot god is said to be sealed like a spirit, but also has a scorpion stinger dagger that may come from a part of its body.Then the Godskins have cloths made of still living gods.Granted I am mixing up Outer Gods who seem more akin to things like the Erdtree/Crucible than Marika and miqqy and they may be fundamentally different beings.
>>741381287why do you keep writing radagon/hewg?
>>741383105What the game is being vague about, are if the pre Radagon body is just a puppet. And creating the Radagon puppet means there is no Marika puppet. Cue the gay sculpture plotline. Or if the Radagon puppet was its own separate thing acting independently but with her amibtion/logic severed from herself, since we see Miq do the same in the DLC: just not stuffed it into anything. >>741382626Metyr clearly thought she did something wrong, to create the GEQ. Even if that something is creating the fucked up tar people and tar coffins we see in the DLC, by not giving them a death ritual to perform.
>>741383789Metyr probably branded a lot of different people that would be at odds.
>>741383659Marika doesn't resemble a ghost though, she resembles a golem. Stone, permanence since she had plans to be the forever queen-god. Miquella resembles faded light because he categorized himself as such. His stint as an unalloyed gold enjoyer let him understand the peak that it represented and that him carrying that torch is just a faded rendition of it. I think your confusion is in the game calls a bunch of stuff that aren't Gods gods. >>741383789The game isn't being vague about any of that. Radagon and the GO fundamentalists exist as white blood cells for the tree, they protect it instead of furthering anything relating to what Marika had planned. Once Radagon started moving about the entire religion changed its aims and it is the type of change that the elden beast controlling radagon would make. There is a retardedness associated with radagon that hints at a tabula rasa unlike the very detailed psychology of Marika. He is very obviously an empty shell with nothing going on inside that can be used for someone else's aims.
>>741384020>Then gods take on a form suiting their goalsDecent idea I guess>You're calling a bunch of stuff gods that aren't godsFrom fucked up the translations regarding thing. Apparently outer gods are "kami" but Marika is called something different.
>>741383789The very systems people live under created the GEQ. Blackflame is an evolution of ghostflame. >normal flame destorys>ghostflame destroys body and soul>black flame destroys body, soul, and spiritMankind kept advancing its flame potential until it could kill gods and they wanted to kill gods because they've lived countless cycles under them in a pyramid scheme to eat their souls. >>741384139From didn't mess up any translation, you realizing none of these entities are gods is part of the story progression. The R=M questline should have clued you guys in that figuring out where you were lied to IS part of the story. You should have had the same aha moment as a person in the game that rebels, you piece it together just like they would in the game.
>>741383680Because Hewg is either not important.Or he is.If Hewg is the thing from the Brick Hammer, it makes sense. But he still has the wrong body for that, since that would be a dwarf giant and not a misbegotten. It makes me wonder if its a actual GRRM thing that is poorly transplanted into the game, or if its classic FROM cuckoldry where this is a intentional gap never intending bridge.
this thread has a shit ton of conjecture>>741381073and this marked line is probably just there because they thought it sounded coolsouls games have always the biggest head canon because every line ingame, no matter if spoken or as a description is being picked apart by /x/ tier schizos
>>741384274Ok explain what is and what is not a god in the game.Is the Formless Mother a god or no? Is Marika and ascended miquella a god?
>>741384274>pyramid scheme to eat their souls.One Great doesn't seem that hungry, neither do The Greater Will. >The very systems people live under created the GEQNo. She exists because the Land of Shadow do not have burial rites after Marika, in the very vague timeline where we do not know when it was sealed either.
>>741384274>>ghostflame destroys body and soul>soul>>black flame destroys body, soul, and spirit>soul and spiriti dont remember this being stated anywhere, i only remember that frenzied flame could destroy spirits
>>741384450God is the GW and it doesn't matter because it is an egregore of all desire pulled together. Everything else is just an entity with a fuckload of runes so it can lord it's power over you and tell you it is god, which is what a demiurge is. >>741384492In ghostflame burial similar fuckery was happening as erdtree burial. People were burned in a pyre of ghostflame so that their spirit couldn't come back to the world and amass runes again. When you realize why people were burned the way they were upon death you realize that the fuckery of the life and death system has always been happening, people's lives have always been controlled without them knowing.
>>741384274>soul, and spiritDefine these now.
>>741384614>God is the GWThat's a fair claim considering he is the highest being in the setting, but for the sake of category this doesn't help at all. We're still left with a setting where a person can merge the bodies of mortals into a big temple, step into a gate and come out "divine" whilst there are a bunch of super natural entities that also exist, and they're all controlled by a magic living rune that is actually a lobopodian worm from space, who is handled by another worm made out of human fingers.
>>741384601Blackflame can kill gods, but can't since DD was sealed. Figure out what DD is in the elden ring and how it facilitates movement of resources across life/death and you can figure out what black flame is actually doing. >>741384704Soul is runes (ATCG strands defining you) and spirit is literally spirit. You see countless spirits wandering in ER and NR explains what the afterlife and spirit shelters are.
>>741384614>In ghostflame burial similar fuckery was happening as erdtree burialNo.Erdtree leans very hard into getting recycled. It seem to exist specifically to replace the older forms.Meanwhile Ghostflame will fuck you up badly if you are still alive and fueling it, as opposed to the Birds or the Helpen.
>>741380160I believe that, schizo. So does Tarnished Archeologist on youtube, and I'm sure if you went in the comments of his videos you'd find others agreeing with him. It's obviously not all one person.
>>741384935>Figure outso you are assuming, thats fair
>>741384819>That's a fair claim considering he is the highest being in the setting, but for the sake of category this doesn't help at all.The GW is a hypnagogic god in hypnagogia. You just don't know what that is so you don't categorize it as a type of god.
>>741369046This
>>741380160>posted that and went to eat>came back and im being accused of being a schizodidnt know there was a schizo claiming that but ive read a few believing that the erdtree was burnt before
>>741384362>this thread has a shit ton of conjectureBaseless headcanon? In my Elden Ring lore thread?
>>741384950All cultures lean hard into recycling because that is the normal mode of existence, the people with power just alter how it is paid out or channels. The big picture in the game is this is going to cause an issue in the future that no one playing the ring game is accounting for in the present, mostly because the systems are designed to hide it from them so aliens can get immediate gains at the price of the future.
>>741385048It still doesn't help, for the sake of argument the GW shouldn't be a factor, we need clarification on what separates Marika without the ring, from the Rot God or the Divine Lion.
>>741385208>for the sake of argument the GW shouldn't be a factorIt never is by sheer dint of being a hypnagogic god. It is a reflection of you and I. When you discuss what the GW wants you are saying this is what I want. That is the crux of the game my niggly.
>>741385282Gnostic shit isn't answering questions.
>>741385208>>741385456A bunch of the 'god's are tulpas the people in the lands between made after a magical meteor landed near them.
>>741384306the brick hammer is a hammer made of a brick. its not meant to be anyone of note, and if it was, they could belong to any creed or race. misbegotten are referred to as menials, they very easily could have been in construction. i don't like the idea that Hewg is some progenitor misbegotten anyways, there's nothing in the game to say he is. he's just an exceptional blacksmith that Marika clocked, and tasked with an impossible mission.
>>741385543Which magic meteor? Because people didn't exist when the Elden Ring showed up.
>>741375996Bloodfiends are demi-humans tho
>>741385208Get this, there is this place called the Primeval Current, it is like our milky way's Great River but it has these rocks that turn your magic or faith into reality. So something happens in that Current thing and a bunch of these rocks fly out of it and land on the planet right. And these rocks end up forming into these fake gods that embody an aspect of life. Each one is a different understanding of an aspect of life and the last one is this orange rock that represents order and wants to find a completeness. These things claim to be gods, or people ascribe to them the quality of god, but guess what? People go out and kill those gods. Protip - you can't kill god.
>>741368234He's basically a school shooter on a cosmic scale
>>741385792There is nothing in the lore to suggest that at all. While stars are definitely god like entities (I.E Metyr and the ring itself), there is no evidence that shit like the Formless Mother or the Fell God are stars.
>>741374574>>741374692>>741374763>>741374843>>741374947The Greater Will left at some point in the ancient past after the Nox tried to murder Metyr. The Greater Will punished the Nox then left in a tantrum while doing nothing to help Metyr, any Two Fingers that were already born, and the Elden Beast. As for the Two Fingers once being great at writing runes in the air, that's probably for younger ones and the Roundtable Hold one is just old, or only a handful (no pun intended) that could still do that were born after Metyr was injured.
>>741386197Read the legendary items. There are ones for weapons and talismans and spells. They all inform you on the deeper aspects of the lore. You want the legendary spells, they all talk about what the primeval sorcerers saw when they did a seance with the current itself.
>>741368378The Fecal Feaster is a fan favorite.
>>741386338>The Greater Will left at some point in the ancient past after the Nox tried to murder Metyr.GW never left, it just doesn't care to change things. Both ER and NR are littered with eye imagery to clue you in that someone is watching everything play out. The GW is pondering his scenics and he likes what he sees.
>>741369786GRRM wrote the backstory and setting and Miyazaki and team wrote the rest, including the actual plot.
>>741378802>>741378874>>741379002Bernahl probably considers his "brother" Rykard in this context, as a recusant swearing vengeance against the gods. At the same time, Bernahl knows that the very goal of burning the Erdtree is something the Tarnished's own mission requires and demands, so he remains uncertain and stewing in his conflicts in that regard.
>>741368234Testing
>>741386853Or it is just his brother. It is the exact type of thing to eternally blackpill someone.
>>741384362>this thread has a shit ton of conjecturewelcome to the weekly From lore thread!here is my conjecture: every redditor believes goldmask is the best ending because they assume he's right about no gods, which i maintain is retarded and therefore would just eternally bind you to a 1000 year voyage of mediocrity which does not work with the universes' mechanisms that we know are the same between ages/elden lords/ etc.basically its just a gaint cope by a well-intended but retarded madman
>>741379462Without Maliketh being defeated, the flames aren't strong enough. With enough time, the flames likely go out to boot. The first burning would explain all of the ashes in Leyndell on the first visit, and it would explain why Morgott kicked the Tarnished out of the Fortified Manor (the real Roundtable Hold). Vyke fucking up is one thing, but Bernahl's case makes even the normal actions of the Tarnished potentially look purposeless, deranged, and ruinous to most people in the Lands Between.
>>741387001Sadly, no.
>>741379510You're right, the other guy is wrong. The Shadows are made by the Two Fingers as threats against the Empyreans if the Two Fingers ever think the Empyreans go out of line. The Shadows double as servants of their respective Empyreans if the Two Fingers think the Empyreans are still in line. Marika didn't create that system, it predates her.
>>741386390I know what the items say and they do not suggest every entity is a star, just some of them. All the celestial body type entities are treated as actual outsiders, not in the same way outer gods usually involve "Old gods of X" before being ousted by Marika.It more likely that most outer gods are just manifestation of the contrivances caused by the elden ring creating the world. In short, Your powerful stars are higher beings than earthly outer gods like the Fell God, but highly subverted by the strongest star already on the world, The Elden Ring.
>>741375996>>741368234>We aren't shown what the curse spreading ritual is likehe tears out their guts, which as you said in japanese culture is where the soul is.The Erd Tree is like a mainframe of souls. The roots are said to go all over the lands between, you find the roots in the catacombs. The catacombs have the roots in them because when you die in the lands between you are suppose to go to the roots to be re-absorbed by the erd tree for eternal life/ or be reincarnated or whatever.Omen are cut off from the erd tree, they are born without grace and their souls can not be re-absorbed by the erd tree / greater will. Dung Eater is the "if i cant have it neither can you" character and his ritual is meant to kill someone and stop them from being absorbed by the erd tree. He is about creating a system of equity by making everyone suffer equally.
>>741387306I'm just saying that a whole slew of these 'gods' aren't and the game explains where they come from. It is like how Marika claims to be a god but we go to her hometown in the dlc and see she is just a woman. Most of the 'gods' are just glintstone given form by people with a faith based understanding on what they are so they become that. The 'gods' born from these rocks manifest as concepts given form like fecundity, order, and time. If you've seen or read The Sandman then they are sort of like the endless, they are what they are and they can't be something different, but instead of being 'endless' they are constructed by those around them. God with a capital G has certain riders attached to it and none of the things in the game fit the descriptors except the GW.
>>741387001It's not that the flames aren't strong enough, it's that without death, the Erdtree is immune to harm.
>>741372397Other way round. You have seen his face right?
>>741387564>Most gods are just Glintstone tulpasYeah, no evidence of this.
>>741368234Reminder to thank Genichiro. He gave his life so you may enjoy a boss fight resurrected from a mid-game sick warmonger optional boss. Miquella doing the same achieved far worse results.
>>741387717Do you still not understand that magic and faith are the same thing and that glintstone is the catalyst for them or that amberstone is just glintstone?
>>741387805He knows you are right but doesn't want to ask you to explain more so he insults you knowing you'll explain it more. It is a byproduct of being severely undersocialized.
>>741386462The Greater Will abandoned the world, hence Metyr being "broken and abandoned" per item descriptions. The Greater Will also hasn't been in contact with people for ages, hence why the Nox have been able to start reaching the surface again at Sellia and why the Two Fingers have to guess and pretend that the Tarnished plan is the Greater Will's doing. The moment that's clearly not the case, the Two Fingers desperately try to contact the Greater Will, and Enia confirms that this takes ages, implying that the Greater Will is far away. The Dark Moon is the outer god likely watching the Lands Between closely in the modern day, along with the Scarlet Rot outer god, the Formless Mother, and the Frenzied Flame. In Nightreign, the eye imagery is for Heolstor and/or the Night itself.
>>741387932>The Greater Will abandoned the worldSupposedly, but both games show infinite eye imagery showing someone is watching. Elden Ring is just Nipponese The Elder Scrolls, the GW is Lorkhan and reality is designed exactly as he wanted it to be for reasons.
>>741386963His armor would have likely mentioned his brother if that were the case, or someone at the Volcano Manor would have mentioned that Bernahl's own brother was a recusant too. That could have caused Bernahl to be stigmatized in Leyndell even before he became a recusant himself. The "brother" Bernahl speaks of is probably just Rykard as Bernahl's brother in arms as a recusant. The dialogue also can only be heard after you defeat Rykard, IIRC.
>>741387805Yeah that statement doesn't particularly apply to this conversation. Like I get what you're saying, that near the end of the game it becomes apparent Holy spells and glint stone spells are two shades of the same power type.But uh, that doesn't prove the old gods are glintstone tulpas.
>>741388019>His armor would have likely mentioned his brother if that were the caseBernahl mentions it audibly in the game, it is something that chaps the wikitards hard because they never bother checking dialogue when looking up item descriptions lol.
>>741387567The ashes in Leyndell on the first visit, the giant crack in the Erdtree leading to the Stone Platform at the core, and the Great Club being a branch from the Erdtree indicate that the Erdtree isn't immune to harm with Maliketh's seal in place.
>>741387805But what is red glintstone? It doesn’t come from the stars but from blood sacrafice
>>741387805>>741387870Warning, this is the Sunrealm Schizo.
>>741388103>But uh, that doesn't prove the old gods are glintstone tulpas.Read the legendary spells with what you know glintstone is and tell me what you think is happening. All those stones being together was the One Great and all the lesser gods comprising it are a reflection of a singular aspect of a larger whole that are seeking completeness themselves. The same mechanics that let you summon a dragon's head when incanting dragon communion spells is happening at larger scales. >>741388195All the stones are pulled together willpower of life paid. Blue is potential, orange is from organic life, red is from suffering. The cracked tears are made in a similar fashion. A thing gets distilled into its more primal representation of will then it is intoned upon to create magic/faith.
>>741388294Definitely not. >>741388138The game showing it is still in power while burning says that you need something special to break the hold it has on reality.
>>741387992Lots of outer gods and people are watching others in Elden Ring, anon. That doesn't mean one of them is the Greater Will by that point. The description for the High Priest Hat also implies that the Greater Will is a black hole, or its "lightless abyss" is its absence because it abandoned them all.>>741388105The setting exists beyond Bernahl's words. If he had a brother who also was a Tarnished and whose failure traumatized Bernahl, let alone if said brother became a recusant, other characters in the setting would have noticed and noticed that, and the armor's item description (along with other characters at Volcano Manor) would convey this. It's more likely that Bernahl is referring to a brother in arms.
>>741388468The Erdtree isn't going to be instantly burning fully all at once. Some trees survive forest fires, anon.
I'm so glad that nothing I think say or do is dictated by this website.
>>741388493>bernahl talking about his brother doesnt count it needs to be on an item description
>>741388493>Lots of outer gods and people are watching others in Elden Ring, anon.The eye imagery comes from things that aren't eyes though. The big eye in NR is a massive meteor flying toward the planet for instance. Some of the eye imagery like the shields isn't apparent until you notice that other actual eyes on gods like the fell god eye mirrors how those shields look. This isn't the first game series to deal in these topics when everyone thinks God has abandoned reality but in actuality God just doesn't care to change reality because you might not like it but it isn't set up wrong to him.
>>741387791Radahn wishes he was cool enough to shine Isshins shoes. Also Genichiro at least had the courtesy to kill himself before phase 2.
Honestly cant wait for the Tarnished edition patch to replay the game.
>>741388934They really doing a patch for people that already have ER?
>>741388975It’s paid DLC. A new starting class and horse armor
>>741388975Its probably going to be a dlc upgrade for 4.99 or something.
>>741388358>>741388468/ThreadHe's already begun his made up William Blake/Gnostic fanfiction. It's over.
>>741389315Poor guy is still trying.
>>741368234>What was he trying to do? Embed the curse of the Fell God into the Elden Ring By cursing the Erdtree the cursed Souls are beckoned to it instead of resonating through Omen horns, allowing rebirths for those cursed Souls previously rejected by the Old OrderAny other reply is ignorant and based on "vibeloring" and hearsay without any understanding of Fate and Elden Ring metaphysicsThe Dung Eater was also a follower of the Sun Realm and his quest is vengeance for MArika cursing the Crossed Tree into the Scadutree, cheating the Fell God (represented by the Sun)
>>741389375He's been trying to get attention for hours. You should see how desperate he's acting over on the /vg/ thread. Anons called him out like 5 posts into the thread lol >>741368483
>>741389452>You should see how desperate he's acting over on the /vg/ thread.I saw it lol, he called me eric like he did here. Guy seems to have gone mental after all the jokes at his expense. Nothing a quickly pruned butts thread won't fix.
>>741369245The Hornsent were at least as smart as the Golden Order if not smarter.
>>741389375>>741389564>>741389452>He>AnonsAre the Dragonirians in the room with us?
>>741388613His dialogue leaves the possibility that he's talking about Rykard (recently vanquished) as his brother in arms wide open. That would make the most sense in conjunction with Bernahl's armor not mentioning both of his close traumas if he had more than one, along with Bernahl not being looked down on for having a recusant brother back when he was staying the course as a Tarnished.>>741388680There's no massive meteor flying toward the planet in Nightreign. Each Nightlord expedition has a different skybox, and some gradually form eye-like shapes as the Night closes in. Some Nightlords' arenas also have eye-like designs on the horizon, and Caligo's in particular seems to almost have a literal eye that's draconic, possibly Caligo's own. The Greater Will did abandon the world, and even if it no longer cares for the Lands Between, it likely would be mad at the Frenzied Flame trying to destroy the universe, as the universe includes whatever worlds the Greater World might care about.
My headcanon is that Radagon IS the Elden Beast and all these "2 people in one" things are just the outer gods needing a host to manifest physical form, the Gloam Eyed Queen was St. Trina's previous host and after she got killed the outer god of eternal sleep or death or whatever it is simply found a new host in Miquella, but then Miquella had to discard it to actually achieve godhood himself.
>>741389673The GO was legendarily stupid. Every past culture in the game is going hard into eugenics and then you have Marika and her ilk being absolute retards. >>741389721They might be in farum azula. Not sure.
>>741389736>There's no massive meteor flying toward the planet in Nightreign.
>>741389798Kinda hard to do eugenics when you’re producing omen
>>741389878Or retarded to the max. Dragons were uplifting beast races and hornsent were messing with genetics after finding out shamans were malleable. Meanwhile, Marika thought red hair was a curse.
>>741389854You do know that Heolstor's actual name in the Japanese original text literally translates to "Nameless", right? Also, how would something like "bulky sun" mean he's a meteorite? Heck, according to Nightreign's premise, the Night already arrived, and whatever happens in the credits only shows a colossal tree man, not a meteorite.
>>741389784cool but that's wrong
>>741390083>japanesemy favorite type of humiliation ritual.
>>741389981Red hair is a curse because she betrayed the fell god after it helped her in the shadowlands
>>741390083>japaneseyou are just gonna make the autist mad
>>741390160And yet her first son that predates that event had red hair. Marika was ruled by mental spooks because she was a woman.
>>741390209I wouldn’t know if it predates; the furnace golems aid messmers army so they were allied for a bit.
>>741390348mesmer was born before marika genocided the giants
>>741390348>I wouldn’t know if it predates;You don't know if Marika's first son predates the war with the giants? Wew lad.
>>741368234he was trying to turn the world into a giant superAIDS poopfest
>>741389981Radagon's red hair is a curse, he has zero fire resistance despite having resistances to everything else. His kids seemed to get the hair color but not the curse though. It'd be funny if their red hair is a coincidental result of mixing the divine aspect from Marika and some ancient Rauh meteorite-studying gigachad DNA from Rennala. As for eugenics, even the beastmen at their peak seemed pretty messed up, like they're too early in the evolutionary phases to actually be logical and healthy for a good civilization. The hornsent were playing god to make Enir-Ilim and the Gate of Divinity, as opposed to actually working toward better genetics. Marika just killed people to consolidate power then tried to crack how incantations and sorceries worked to find the good stuff the Elden Beast wouldn't let her have.
>>741390450>Radagon's red hair is a curseIt isn't though, Marika is just dumb to the max. The game shows you definitively that the curse was just her coping and shidding herself when it shows she sired red headed children before radagon was even a concept in her mind.
>>741390507If it wasn't a curse, Radagon wouldn't have zero fire resistance despite being made of stone, having the Elden Ring, and having the Elden Beast helping him. Radagon was also likely created atop Enir-Ilim so Marika could become a god, seeing as how Hoarah Loux clearly isn't there in the DLC Story Trailer.
>>741390587You are as dumb as Marika.
>>741390380Ok explain the fell god helping her in the shadowlands
>>741390209Messmer‘s birth genuinly fucks the lore and all established chronology about marikas family.
>>741368234>We never find out of if he eats ass or notSASUGA, MITSUBISHI AND FATFUCK-SAN.
I watch ongbal for the bosses experience and vaati for the lorebasically beated the game without even playing lol
>>741390873Marika blew them out in the giants war and the crusades happen right after. Messmer is a full grown adult in the crusades though, so he was born before the giants war.>>741390915It doesn't you just don't understand the lore like you think you do.
>>741368234>What was he trying to do?He just wanted to have a good meal.
>>741391000Just because you’re willing to lap up whatever dogshit justification the DLC had to produce to remain cogent doesn’t mean you understand it better.
>>741391109Anger is an appropriate response if you feel intellectually threatened.
>>741391000ER is already a massively over-convoluted narrative and one of the only bits old solid ground were what Miriel tells us. Marika marries Godfrey, sires Godwyn and the omen twins, divorces him, Marries Radagon, then sires the empyrean twins. This order places the creation of Radagon, the golden orders most leal defender, at its inception in the mountain of the giants. Messmer also clearly being a Marika / Radagon and predating her children by Godfrey doesn’t add anything but more useless haze to an already hazy timeline.
>>741391334>ER is already a massively over-convoluted narrativenot if you watch vaati
>>741391302So’s smugness to avoid engaging the point
>>741391334>This order places the creation of Radagon, the golden orders most leal defender, at its inception in the mountain of the giants.It doesn't since Radagon was made up during the Liurnian wars when Marika magically started losing wars with no actual champion to lead her armies. >>741391383Your point is you don't understand the lore, that is fine with me.
>>741369563Soulslikes always have vague, unsatisfying "endings." For some reason it's become a tradition in this genre.
>>741391425There’s you avoiding the point again. I could get into how Radagons red hair was a byproduct of his inception on the mountain but that’s moot. The liurnian wars immediately follow the genocide of the giants so that’s still the established timeline. And most importantly, generations AFTER messmers birth. So again, you’re cool with it being retarded and recursive because you too are retarded.
>>741391631And I could repeat that radagon didn't exist until the liurnian wars. I have no idea why this part of the lore confuses you and you alone like this.
>>741391383You're being baited by Sunrealm Schizo. He will never admit you're right, only his dedicated contrarian fanfiction is correct to him. Just call him a fag and point out how Seamless co-op sucks and Baldur's Gate III is trooncore slop. The only thing he cares about is controlling narratives on /v/ which is why he samefags with himself in an effort to pretend that /v/ "just accepts this view".
>>741391824You keep saying this but sadly no.
>>741391810okay, bait taken. then in your fancanon, who's messmer's dad? if not the only other person to fuck marika with flaming red hair?>>741391824shut up retard
>>741391824You keep on making references like that but we keep telling you no.
>>741391969His father isn't stated because their parentage isn't important. Marika's infinite failings are covered up as curses or issues with everyone else when the issue is with her, that is what the game is showing you. Marika's red hair curse? A cope she made up because she wanted the failing that was going to come come from without when she knew it would come from within. 3 different spouses but the same failing is present in all of them - Marika. You not understanding that is why the lore makes no sense to you.
>>741391969>Short two reply posts in your direction>"I'm totally anons lol"I've always been able to see you. I know you know that I am "That one anon with the comics", but the joke is you think I can't see you.
>>741368234>I eata da doodoo
He's an atheist in a setting where gods just literally exist.
>>741368234create india
>>741392363>the turboatheist turned into a mending rune to fix God's ring>as his final act of being a turboatheist
>>741392147>their parentage isn't importanti guess it has to not be when the only possible candidate would make the chronology impossible by your own admission. so, for the third and final time, you willingness to believe that Messmer's father is a literal who, never mentioned, never stated, despite him having the single most important visual connection to one of the only two characters we know sired children by marika, is not you being clever. it's you bending over backwards, ignoring every other sign the game is giving you to cover From's fuckup.>>741392301shut up retard >>741392343based
>>741391425Radagon initially seemed to have been invented just before the Liurnian Wars, but in light of the DLC Story Trailer and the DLC, Radagon seems to have been invented atop Enir-Ilim and thus would actually be Marika's first Elden Lord before being abandoned when Messmer was born cursed. Radagon was basically introduced to the public in a far lesser role at a late date, and possibly with the intention that he'd be too weak and with too few men to survive fighting the Liurnians.
>>741392514Look lad, the game gives an exact reason why Marika believes in that curse, then gives you evidence she herself had a son with that hair color before the curse existed. You can keep coping forever about this if you want, I will reiterate it to you again the next time you make this topic something you want to pursue. >>741392595>but in light of the DLC Story Trailer and the DLCIt remains the same as the base game, I know.
>>741392595the is the only explanation that preserves the timeline and makes any sense, but i still hate it. needlessly overcomplicated and clearly made working backwards to explain how a child by radagon could be her firstborn.
>>741392653Hoarah Loux would have to be atop Enir-Ilim with Marika for him to still be the first Elden Lord of the Golden Order, but he's not. If Marika is alone up there, her only option to make the godhood ritual work is to create Radagon. Marika even looks more androgynous in that scene than she does at any other point and in any other depiction across the trailers and the game alike. Messmer's theme is even a rework of Radagon's theme, and the children born to the Radagon-Marika union all have thematic butterflies associated with them. Messmer has thematic butterflies of his own, so Radagon and Marika are his parents.
>>741393097ipsum lorem
>>741393170He's pretty much coping with nonsense at this point.
>>741393097all very true, i forgot about the butterflies, and the theme. the connections are made so glaringly apparent I didn't have enough evidence prepared because I just assumed that anyone with a brain would take it as a foregone conclusion >>741392653meanwhile all you have is proving a negative. >if his dad is radagon, then the timeline doesnt work!correct. his dad is Radagon and the timeline doesn't work. or at least requires heavy, overly convoluted tuning like >>741392595 proposes.
>>741393374Play elden ring if you want to discuss it with us.
>>741393456its disappointing that you're just a troll. i thought you were a stupid anon with genuine opinions about the lore. better that then a stupid anon with no opinions.
>>741392828The date of Messmer's birth doesn't even have to be considered for that, the scene of Marika alone atop Enir-Ilim already explains it. This also adds to Radagon's own tragedy in that he was belittled and wronged by Marika even more severely than previously known, being blamed as though he was somehow at fault for an outside curse on Messmer then wrongfully stripped of his title and (possible) power. Heck, if Morgott becoming uncursed is any indication, undoing the various curses really was possible, but Marika was too much of a bitch to do so, instead acting as though her children being cursed at all and having to cure them were personal insults to her.
>>741393561I'm sorry that I didn't let you spread badlore here, my bad.
>>741393603This is just going to upset him and have him reply to himself more.
I warned you guys, if you keep feeding Sunrealm Schizo he will continue to grow more contrived. The nigger thinks Miquella was competing with Godwyn over control of the "Helphen light", he is absolutely insane.
>>741393806We know, we make fun of the horsefucker all the time around here you aren't telling us anything new.
>>741393827>Posts with We anyway despite the soijak edit pointing this out.Put me in the screen cap.
>>741393603hold that thought as we continue to discuss radagon siring messmer while ignoring you>>741393564i can see that, though like i mentioned cubbyholing him for 500 years with no mention of a choice to do it seems like a bit of an asspull to salvage the timeline. i think radagon's an intersting character, though his connections to fundamentalism make me think he's as much of a conniving bitch as marika. he seems to be in charge of the policies that subjugated all the nonhumans, potentially making the misbegotten as a slave race, and definitely lobotomizing Rennala. all that to say, maybe he had his time in time out coming.
>>741393827We make fun of him in /vg/ too after he did the same things there as he did here.
>>741394101oh god what did he do to get made fun of on /vg/?
>>741368234He was a spiritually a hoodnigger and partook in blacktivities like rape, murder and cursing people. He is just pure Chaotic Evil. Irl blacks form da hood are Omen. The niggas that get outta the hood due to normal behavior become like Morgott.
>>741394197Him and his friends were using the group passwords you can set to get tons of free corpses to loot and someone explained that was what was happening and called him and his friends casuals. This then spurred a weird fake infusion of new people on the password they use for multiplayer that was just dragonguy and his friend on new accounts acting like clowns. They said the pass got leaked on fextralife but all the comments there were for group passwords not multiplayer passwords. As a result we all make fun of him and his friends so hard they had to rotate the names they use on /vg/ numerous times to try and hide now. They still act the exact same even with new names so we just call the new name the old name and trigger him. That spurs him to come to /v/ and make infinite copypasta threads coping. If you re-read this thread you'll see constant begging posts looking for replies if you know what is going on, and you'll see posts laughing about it all. Him snapping and going full mask off after this thread being up for hours was his breaking point.
>Hoarah Loux is better than Elden Beast>Leda and co are better than Consort Radahn Was it intentional?
Apparently just getting eaten by a Misbegotten is enough to taint your lineage. “Contact with the primordial crucible”. Similar to how sorcerers come into “contact” with the primeval current.Apparently observing the roots of all life is a great sin.
Reminder that Ranni the Redditor would probably like Ayn Rand
>>741395841Ranni is probably the biggest Mary Sue I’ve ever come across in a video game before. She is incredibly OCish. Everything leads back to her. She is behind everything. And no you can’t go against her. She is Miyazaki’s super special no.1 waifu.
>>741396123Same with melina. Marika is like that too.
>>741396123>>741396158That Miyazaki, man I tell you. What can I say? He likes his women. He likes his women.
>>741390424It easily could happen after. Messmer's army being very 'Godfrey-coded' would be part of this, as Marika would have made use of the Shadow Realm as a way of getting rid of inconvenient left-overs.
>>741396770Someone said the wicker golems have shields and stuff from the giant's war showing that the crusade happens afterwards. Don't know though I haven 't looked at them closely.
>>741396886they drop the visages and this is the description>A stone mask surrounded by curled horns, depicting the fell god of fire that haunts the sagas of the hornsent.
>>741395841>>741396123>>741396158Elden Ring is an extremely feminist game and it always breaks anons brains when this is pointed out to them
>>741397242Oh sweet it rotated to its next humiliation ritual topic.
>>741397242>marika literally breaks the world>genocides a couple civilizations>ranni pushes the apocalypse even further>kills half his own familybased feminism
>>741397286I hope he goes to Godwyn was always a fish next that is my favorite.
Ranni is the main character lol >>741397308In real life it’s men that do that / progress everything
>>741397242yeah but that's a throughline in bloodborne too. both games are at least in part to do with women's agency being removed from them and used for some supposedly higher purpose, and the women stuck in those roles rebelling however they can, usually unsuccessfully. /v/ is too underage and too incel to comprehend that feminist subtext doesn't mean gurl power so talking about it is a nonstarter.
>>741397308>white people break the world >genocides a couple civilizations Based white males
>>741369950>The spirits that haunt them in their dreams are the hornsent.Debatable, given the Furnace Visage description.
>>741397612Bloodborne is actually about the abuse of women. Elden Ring is about the empowerment of women.Anyone who says Bloodborne is feminist is an idiot. The Pthumerian civilization’s goal was to have their own queen get raped by a cosmic horror. Then she got her child torn out of her.
>>741368234He is the logical conclusion of the cycle of curses with no forgiveness: a gay retard who just wants to drag everything down to the lowest level and hates everything higher.
>>741397761>Elden Ring is about the empowerment of women.ER is about their abuse also, NR even canonizes the Valkyrie archetype they've been doing for decades.
>>741396158>melina hates being saved even if you get rid of the flame, despite talking big about the value of living to dissuade you from doing soIt's like the reverse of pic related
>>741397761Marika surrenders her agency as a free woman by accepting godhood, so would ranni, which is why she's rebelling. femiminst ≠ gurl power, stupid. showing bad things happening to women and pointing out that they're bad is still a feminist point of view.
>>741397820Women get abused and then get revenge through empowerment in ER, is the whole difference. Be it Marika or Ranni. Never tell a woman what to do.Meanwhile the women in Bloodborne have very bad endings. All of them. The Pthumerian queen arguably had the worst fate.
>>741397940Holy retard. To a feminist getting revenge through gurl power IS a show of feminism. Stop splitting hairs you coping male. It’s not a female moment game either. Unless you think real life is a men moment game. Men build civilization as well as end them. In the world of ER it’s women that do this. Only a woman can birth a new age. The masculine Elden Lord is secondary to the feminine God/Empyrean
>>741397984There is no empowerment in ER for them. They already lost all their agency like anon said. Fighting to get it back isn't empowering it is acknowledging that you were agency raped and couldn't stop it.
>>741397940Marika didn’t really surrender her agency she just didn’t understand the power. This is the whole point of golden order fundamentalism. She only figured out it was a trap in the end, and this was probably only a bad thing to her because she couldn’t actually change the world the way she wanted. She was apparently cocky enough to think she could slay the Beast, in due time.
>>741398079>There is no empowerment in ER for themYou didn’t play this game. You’re retarded or something.
>>741398061I'm not splitting hairs. You, like i already called 3 comments ago btw, just fundamentally don't understand what feminist subtext actually means. it doesn't mean "the woman wins," that's a 12 year old's interpretation. >>741398157but it was a trap, which is my point.
>>741398157>Marika didn’t really surrender her agencyShe ends up trussed to a rune arc lol.
>>741398218I played the game a little bit. Every woman in that game got raped sideways by circumstances. Some more justified than others. Rennala getting fucked sideways? Justifiable since she was in love. Millicent killing people left and right not so much.
>>741398229Yeah because her other half was backed by the Beast. And she still won in the end. You killed the thing and remade the Ring.
>>741397802>Let me out! Let me out of here! Must eat more! Defile more! Everything that matters to you! For generations to come! I am the Dung Eater! A scourge upon the living!wait a minute, maybe he has a point
>>741398307So her agency was taken from her, literally.
>>741398220>>741398306Yeah. This is just sad. You’re basically playing a different game in yo it head if you have to act willfully retarded like this.The feminine moon displaced the masculine stars just like the big feminine tree displaced the masculine sun.The entire game is female coded.
>>741398397No I'm just leaning into your humiliation ritual, I love this stuff. Have you mentioned how many INT points Azur and Lusat have compared to Rennala yet?
>>741394051Marika already "cubbyholed" Messmer in the Land of Shadow and Morgott and Mohg from birth, so it's not unprecedented. Misbegotten were probably abused from the start of the Golden Order, considering that Marika made her Tarnished preparations far in advance and Hewg was already a terrified prisoner and likely slave. Rennala was traumatized by Radagon abandoning her, but it was still a douchebag move. Marika likely ordered it though, and Radagon would be desperate for his fundamental validation to be restored.
>>741398220>I'm not splitting hairsYou are. Feminists love gurl power and see it as a show of femininity. This is why they love witchcraft and shit. >You, like i already called 3 comments ago btw, just fundamentally don't understand what feminist subtext actually meansYeah you’re projecting. You don’t know how feminists think. >it doesn't mean "the woman wins," that's a 12 year old's interpretation. Hey, buddy, have you interacted with feminists before? They’re surprisingly childish. >but it was a trap, which is my point.And? A woman is still fundamentally more powerful than a man. A woman 1/10th the size of Radahn could equal him, and then one shot him. A woman was smarter than the two founders of the wizard school and btfo’d them. This entire game is a feminist Wiccan’s wet dream.
>>741398354Sure thing. Doesn’t change the fact that a woman became god and displaced the masculinity of the land. So did Rennala. >>741398453Good point. According to the lore no male has seen the moon. No male has gotten to 70 intelligence. Women are smarter and better than men when it comes to magic and scientific matters in ER.
Love the amount of chuds that desperately try to reframe Elden Ring as something that it’s not “Noooo a woman isn’t the Archmage”“Noooo a woman isn’t the God”“Noooo a woman didn’t beat the Radahn”
>>741398584anon, you don't need to know what feminists thing to know what feminist subtext is. it has an Oxford english definition. you can just go look.
>>741388358holy head canon
>>741398652>Doesn’t change the fact that a woman became godDid this happen?
>>741398862No lol. A woman rose to power as a woman then tries to live like a man and then gets murdered.Pretty much THE cautionary tale for women trying to get uppity.
>>741398862You didn’t even play the game lol
>>741398862No. Marika being not a god is sort of the whole story by the end.
>>741398862She stepped through the Gate of Divinity. The text for the expansion even says this is how she became a god.>>741398968What is a god is a matter of perspective, but she is quite clearly divine by mortal standards. She is host to the Beast/Ring. That is the closest thing to God, bar the Greater Will.
>>741399106Can you kill God?
>>741398652no it doesnt change that, just like that doesnt change the fact that she had to surrender to an even greater power to do it. its like witches. the trick at the end of witch stories is that while it larps as a female liberation story, the women is still surrendering herself to satan, the most potent, virile masculine force. the liberation is feminist, and discussing the inevitable subjugation is also feminist. i don't know why im explaining this to you like you're going to comprehend it.
>>741399120No, that is why killing her proves she wasn't actually god. Gideon has a funny little monologue about it right before you kill him then her.
>>741368234the lone assfag in fantasy ireland
>>741399184Anon might not have gotten that far yet since he is talking about early game Marika GO propaganda instead of what you learn by the endgame.
I thought he was just a billions must die chud
>>741398307The game spells it out, but some people still refuse to get it. Marika didn't want anyone to win. She wanted the world to be stuck in a curse of struggle for as long as possible because she hated everything in the end.The civil war that never ended wasn't an accident. She instilled the values in everyone, started the conflict, and made sure no one could approach the solution. Grace guides you no matter what your choice is. Marika doesn't care. She is burning the house down on her way out.>Wherever the path leads, so shall you follow. Wherever the path leads, only more sorrow. Tis a curse! A curse! The curse of Queen Marika! Ah...ahh... Ha...ha...>Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto Eternity.
>>741399362She tells people to look into the religion and move past it or become sacrifices. She definitively wanted someone to win, but she was ready to torch it all if that person wasn't worthy. To her, Horah Loux was who was worthy.
>>741399362it's very possible but i wouldn't count the testimony of Gideon Ofnir the Retard Whos Wrong About Everything as credible evidence.
>>741399362Typing this out and intentionally not stating you are using Gideon who is wrong about everything shows how bad faith you are. This is why people make fun of your bad lore, you walk into the abuse dude.
Default ending: A return of the status quo. Return the elden ring as it was and the world will be renewed similar to how it was before with all its flaws like demigods who behave imperfectly like humansDung eater is about forcing equity. frenzied flame is about killing everything so there can be no sufferingRannis ending is a revolution to escape the influence of the gods and become a god herselfGoldmask ending: return the world to what it was but without the demi-gods abusing their power over the mortals
>>741399495>She tells people to look into the religion and move past it or become sacrifices.She is not saying that. If you look at it again, she is announcing her intent to go further into Golden Order Fundamentalism, and turn away from the earlier days of Gold.>I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?She tells the demigods to become something or become sacrifices. This is coincidentally exactly what is needed for a civil war without end.
Is Rennala really the smartest person in the lore tho
>>741399963She's telling people to realize an alien runs their lives. That is the secret at the end of the GO that blind faith isn't addressing. When Marika found out she rebelled, she's telling others to do the same. She has to couch everything in coded language because her other half isn't allied with her goals anymore. It is literally an informant enforcer for the thing she hates and it shares a mind with her. How are you so dumb?
>>741399564>>741399495Gideon is actually very smart, it just didn't appear so at the base game because we were lacking firm knowledge of what was true as players.>Gideon gained true knowledge after his long exchange with the Two Fingers - discovering all had been broken long ago; that the trembling fingers, bent with age, and the Erdtree itself, were no exceptionThis places him on par with maybe three other characters in terms of explicit understanding.
>>741400262Roleplaying as gideon just means anons have cut off all other things you've tried, which is a goodness.
>>741400301It is essentially a tap out. He's spent you can feel how low energy he is now that he has to cut and paste wiki entries instead of talking casually like the rest of us.
>>741399362I always interpreted it that way. Marika knows it’s all a repeating game, with new gods and new orders, so she just said “fuck it”, and wanted to stall it eternally.Alternatively, Gideon was convinced that no one, not even Godfrey, could slay the Beast.
>>741400374Nothing replying to yourself calling you right can't fix lol.
>>741396886>>741397090The masks on the legs are more important. They look like garish trophies, faux made from Fire Giant heads.
>>741399184You can kill gods in Elden Ring, anon, you friggin' kill the Elden Beast.
>>741370672
E's not gonna like this
>>741370165It's mostly personal interpretation. Keep in mind there was a lot of last minute lore changes from the unpatched game into what it is now. It's the one souls game I don't take seriously lore-wise.But also ER genuinely does a shit job at explaining its story by any means.
>>741368234poopoo stinky, with blood.. ouchies?
>>741382713GRRM loves shit and he likely wrote the Dung-Eater as a self insert character
>>741369740Omen are basically Hornsents but maltreated to the point they become brutes.
>>741368234
>>741405663Dolls don't poop
Ranni is my wife and the love of my life.
>>741405526No they're not, they're a curse created by Hornsent through the FM.
>>741369786The worst part for me was when Tarnished Archaeologist started releasing his DLC videos and then quit in the middle of it.
>>741381363Don't be absurd, you don't come to /v/ to play games.
So when was Melina initially burned? When she still had a real body and couldn't vanish as our maiden?And why was she burned, has she ignited the giants flame once already?
When lore is lazily included in an item description, where is it PHYSICALLY on the item? How is our character expected to ascertain this lore on zanzibart by starting at a straight sword?
>>741409503Marika likely used Melina as the template for all of the Finger Maidens being able to burn at the Forge and burn the Erdtree in the process.
>>741370635>>741370506Melina is a doll of the gloam eyed queen. Is this headcanon yes but she is a spirit ghost just like ranni so the only context we have is how it works for ranni
>>741410038You are an autistic faggot
>>741410038Canonically it's beamed directly into our character's brains since we get important information like how to use certain keys and items through these descriptions.
>>741410038Our character is retardmaxxing through the events of the games. Only the player understands anything, the character itself just grugs through the bosses to become some sort of lord at the end.
>>741369786Elden Ring definitely had a pretty rocky development with a ton of rewrites. Dataminers have pulled up a lot of left over dialog and text from the game showing how the story and characters changed a bunch over the development cycle. Whatever GRRM gave to Fromsoft, it was not a 'plot'.
>>741369950Omen are Hornsent but with their growth uncontrolled and untamed because Marika neglects and presecutes them.
>>741368378I personally call him the Caca Connoisseur
>>741371810I assumed it was corpse wax from all the bodies inside dying and overflowing the seams.
>>741375770Roderika is a Tarnished. Gideon wouldn't have let her in the Roundtable if she wasn't.
What was that one lore channel by the russian girl and the tranny?Sucks that they decided to start deleting and recording old vids when he decided to transition because he wanted his abomination of a feminine voice instead
>says she's no maiden>does everything that maidens do?
>>741368234the Doodoo Devourer
>>741368234basically the outer gods find him and his ways too disgusting to want to have anything to do with, let alone control over. so his plan is to make everyone/the world disgusting so that the outer gods just avoid the planet altogether so, a repulsive world where everyone is omens and everything is disgusting... but no meddling or control from space entities? you decision if you think it's worth it, dungeater does
>>741368378indians here on /v/ self insert as this guydisgusting, smelly and everyone wants to hang him
>>741373630>>741373729Every Souls game is a set in a world where janitors don't exist and people never clean anything up.
>>741368234What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Reedese meal?
>>741370165They listen to elden ring lore youtube videos then pretend that they learned it all on their own through gameplay
>>741405204You know I actually completely forgot he was involved, so holy fuck that makes a lot of sense KEK
