MOM WAKE UPMATTHEWMATOSIS CAME BACK AFTER A DECADE
whomst
>>741429147He finally finished his game.
>>741429147How can one guy get humiliated this much for this long?
>>741429147I have zelda fatigue.
>>741429147Return of the king
>>741429147Tell me why I should watch a 23 min video of some fag talking about an old game
>>741429147This is a mork board now old man
>277 viewslmao
Don't respond to the bait above please and thank you
>>741429147Tobuscus also came back, wonder why you're not talking about him. :)
THIS IS THE FORST IN A SERIES OF FOIVE REVIEWS
>>741429337>5 minutes agoIt could have a billion views right now and it won't display properly yet because YouTube needs to process it.
>>741429608>It could have a billion views right nowMatthewmatosis so that actually isn't possible.
zelda mario mario zelda zelda mario zelda zelda mario zelda mario zelda zelda mario zelda
>>741429728He's scared out of his mind.
>>741429147No one gives a fuck anymore.His game sucks, his other game is obviously dead, Elden Ring wrecked his Lost Soul Arts video, Kamiya and Mikami were both exposed as hacks.That mick's career is dead.
>>741429147Matthewmatosis is a filthy liar, he said this would be 19 minutes.
>>741429147This is like watching a beloved professor fall deeper and deeper into dementia
>>741429147Who?
>>741429147>>741429728I have e-celeb obsessed manchild fatigue.
This absolute hack again? Literally all his opinions were dogshit. And then he embarassed himself by making a similarily dogshit game. I guess the money's running low so he has to beg for donations again.
>>741429147>tendie and kojima shill Yuck!
>>741429728>When you get your yearly reminder that your job is partially to blame for turning thousands of people into a complete wreck of a human
>>741430242Did Vinny contribute to the troon epidemic? Don't know all the deep lore, just watched him in high school. I always preferred Joel though.
>>741430242>mfw you laugh you lose
>>741430242>when someone tells you they cut off their penis because of you
>>741430427Not really, twitch in general is just a safe space for them so a lot of them incidentally watch him. He's actively avoided referencing anything to do with them at all.
>>741429147he streams every once in a while and makes patreon posts, not like he fell off the face of the earth. i can appreciate that he wanted to do something more than his old style of "summarize a playthrough" style of video, but these dry theory vids just don't do it for me. hamsterson is ok but now he's just a streamer because his own severe autism prevents him from being able to move on from witcher 3 and release the video alreadyare there any tubers who do a good job of emulating "old" matthewmatosis videos? i know other people make similar videos but most of them i watch are terrible, either just because the person is a retard, has a grating voice, or has no real opinion to give and it's just pure summary
>>741429147literally who
Omg omg finally an eceleb to form my gaming opinions for me!!!!!
>>741430427he's not especially supportive of it, when people spam LGBT emojis in the chat he never acknowledges. not on the same level as jerma who got pressured by his chat into saying trans rights all the time
I wonder if it’s like his old vids where he gives good inside into games or the new ones where it’s philosophical vague ranting…It’s the latter
MatthewCHADtosis back at it again to filter the pseuds and reinvigorate the seething of DS2 trannies
>>741429728Dude got not one, but two, plushie toys for children signed by his fake internet friend. #winning
>>741429147Legendary pull
>>741431036>insideYou mean "insight"...
>>741429843>>741430242>actually he's just like me and hates these people and isnt just wallowing in all the attention and praise which is why he keeps doing this every year
>>741429728white men are so bizarre
>>741429147Oh cool I’ll listen at 2x speed. Has he ever made a game?
>>741430427As a newish viewer, even Joel raided some overtly gay streamer the other day. Finally just unfollowed both, not sure what the hype is about them.>>741430716>>741430882cope. He reads gay fanfics on stream and picks out trans-coded games like tomodachi life because he wants Jerma's audience.
>>741429854>Elden Ring wrecked his Lost Soul Arts videoby reinforcing everything he complained about?you from cultists will never not be blow the fuck out by a man considering that maybe, just maybe, these games arent perfect, huh?
>>741429668No shit, you fucking tard.
>>741431996nigga the original tomodachii game practically made his channel, he did like a 60 part series. acting like he's only playing the new one because jerma did is retarded
Fine ffs I'll watch it just so I can shit on him properly informed
>>741432058Shazam lost.
>>741430742Watch The Gemsbok. His videos are practically unknown compared to MatthewMatosis and his topics are all over the place, but he is a damn good writer.
>>741429147isn't this the guy that was notoriously bad at dark souls 2 and kept making excuses as to how the game was bad and not his skill issue?
>>741429728This guy’s younger than Vinny isn’t he?
>>741429197You need to be 18 to post here
/v/ for a decade:>HURR YELLOW PAINT BADMatt:>Here is exactly why yellow paint is bad, how the underlying problem manifests in different ways, and how it's a symptom of a larger philosophical problem of game design itself/v/:>HURR PSEUD ME LIKE SOULS YELLOW PAINT GUD ACTUALLY
Only 5 minutes into this video, he sounds depressed and is making arguments that would sound schizophrenic if posted here. In other words, we are so back.
>>741432497nah this is the guy who permanently put dark souls 2 in its place as the weakest in the series. then some homosexual made a defense video and an even bigger autist made take down of that video proving that nearly every single sentence in the defense video was wrongdas2 is ass, get fucked zoomie
>>741430427Intertwining with Tumblr [and furries, kind of redundant] is what started Vinesauce's downfall in the first place. While Vinny and Joel, with everyone else not even being a blip on the radar in comparison, never explicitly bent the knee they never fought against it because the income and viewer growth was too ridiculous. So uh sort of?I'm now reminded of when Joel had to make an apology post for the attack helicopter prank call on Windows destruction only to make another attack helicopter joke in regards to how cancerous the Undertale fanbase is while showing that infamous gender nightmare pic
>>741432721the video isn't really about yellow paint so much as the "issues" yellow paint is trying to solve
>>741429147I listened to it. Very pointless video. Dude hitboxes lmao
>>741432721/v/ and 4chan as a whole has areal problem with feeling insecure about their intelligence So this manifests as disagreeing with something just to seem smarter (because whoever said the thing they are disagreeing with must be stupid, therefore they are smart for disagreeing)If this is someone who is relatively famous, generally considered talented or smart, and has a relatively large following, then the effect gets even strongerCouple that with Matt having some quibbles with /v/'s darling From Software and you have the ultimate midwits coming out of the woodworks
>>741432597>You need to be 18 to know the e-celeb faggotnah fuck you
>>741432761>they aren't explicitly pro trans, but i hate them because they don't openly tell trannies to fuck offyour standards are too high, the fact that vinny taunts his chat with how he will never play undertale/deltarune is based enough for me
>>741432723he bought a switch 2 recently and had to convince himself it was a worthwhile purchase for several hours while on stream so i get it
>>741432996underage newfag
>>741432874No, it's not really about that either. It's a video about how media lies to us and why that's a bad thing we just cope with because we need our bread and circus. Matt is blackpilling. It's not the yellow paint, it's not even the level design necessitating yellow paint, it's all the artifice of this medium we unflinchingly accept because we secretly want to be deceived.
its just some brit rambling about videogame design and not even do it in an entertaining fashion. what year is this 2004??
>>741433147>did you know this escapism media ISN'T REAL?????So he's just retarded
>>741432204> the original tomodachii game practically made his channel>into the tranny infested mess it is nowyeah that sounds right
>>741429147Just from the title I can tell it's more pretentious wank where he says nothing of value. Dude's last good videos were over a decade ago
>>741429147Coyote time is aesthetic deceptionHitboxes are aesthetic deceptionGoombas are aesthetic deception Your favorite game is aesthetic deceptionWe live in a simulation, it’s never been more dire for video game design
>>741433017Well it would have nipped all of that cancer in the bud if they did lol especially during New Leaf where it was really starting to rear it's ugly head. Not to say that I don't enjoy it whenever Joel leaves or edits out tranny shit whenever they try to sneak it in.
>>741433265probably some truth to that, new one isn't as good but the old one was basically a soap opera for your OCs, it's tumblr's wet dream
>>741433035>no dude you need to know the shitty e-celeb to be a grown upyou sound underage
>>741431036More of him doing the whole, "woah, button presses change depending on what you're doing"
>>741433235You are getting there, anon. Think about a sports game that's televised. Football is already an artificial simulation of combat, so by being present in the stadium you are just a spectator to a fake reality. When you watch that same match on TV, you engage with a hyperreal version of that same thing, elevated to appeal to specific senses. The drone shots, special microphones and various cuts between plays deceive you in order to make the game "work" in a way the in-person experience naturally provides. You can't aesthetically evaluate a football play if you see it in real life, but a slow-motion zoom from a very specific angle can lead to all sorts of conversations. We need deception to form order from what is, ultimately, just plain chaos.
>>741433439/v/-celeb*This is like saying you don't know who moot is
>>741429557Not>DIS For shame
>>741433147the video is ahout games feeling better when there's internal consistency between aesthetics and function and uses examples which are commonly overlooked instead of going for the low hanging "le ludonarrative dissonance" fruithow do you miss the point entirely it's not even hard to understand.maybe the video would do numbers if it was Elden Ring Is Worse Than You Think (And Here's Why) And That's a Good Thing" and 4.25 hours long
>>741433273I agree. Should've called it "How Hitboxes Broke Me...." or something
what a fucking stupid video
>>741431897Unfortunately his game lost out to Minesweeper and Solitaire in the 'mindless time wasting game to play in the DMV wait line' awards
>>741429147He keeps revealing himself to be an immersionfag of the worst kind.
>>741433439he is the /v/ e-celeb. I can tell you started posting here after 2015
Oh, and with a good video, too. That's awesome.
>>741433506All his examples in the first part of the video show how deception worsens the experience though?
>DID YOU KNOWS GOOMBAS ARENT ALIVEwow so deep
i dont mind people actually trying to be genuine and intelligently approach the mediumI do mind the unfortunate situation where thousands of morons will watch one of those videos and just repeat what they heard.Not sure what the answer is for that is, it seems to be more of an issue with the nature of social media.
>>741429854>His game sucksIt's not amazing, but breddy gud for what it is.
>>741429147he said a bunch of nothing what a waste of time
Did you know that when Kirby swallows an enemy, they vanish from existence? That is THE most terrifying thing ever, Nintendo put this content in a kid's game! What were they thinking?!
>>741433736The points in the video are so basic. Is this video itself an aesthetic deception?
>>741429496I've been out of the loop for like a decade now. Didn't he become a schizo?
I just watched the video and I have no idea what he was trying to say with it
>>741429147>manchild takes Nintendo games too seriously video essay #14162
>>741433998Anything can be aesthetic deception if you're retarded enough.
>and it's another game design philosophyslopKWAB
>>741429197a retard who got filtered by ds2
>>741432597Anyone over the age of 18 wouldn't know who some random let's play youtube faggot is, you little zoomie.
>>741429147Literally who
>>741429147Just tl,dr the talking points to me. I will be expecting your list once I have returned from smoking a cig while shitting.
>>741434020He was trying to tell you the secrets of the universe and help you achieve gnosis, fortunately God's divine grace intervened and saved you from such forbidden heresy.
>>741433235It's more like, "when a game gives you the impression that something is possible or is happening when that's not the case at all, it's a problem." E.g. if a game gave you an escort quest where it implied the NPC could be killed, making it appear they took damage, etc, motivating you to protect them, but in actuality it was scripted so they could never die, that's deceptive and therefore an issue.
I will never give any of /v/ e-celebs a single view
>>741431036Matthewmatosis' biggest "problem" is that he goes into excruciating detail defining a trend he's noticed, talking about what counts as an example, exceptions, edge cases that stretch the definition, etc. for a long time. This is interesting on its own to some people with the examples he highlights and especially if you've played most of the games he uses, but to others it'll seem like pointless semantic rambling before getting to the point.Making the definition airtight before proceeding does strengthen his argument, fwiw. It's just also something that loses most video essay slop consumers.Personally I really like his new videos. Most of them like the Context Sensitivity one I've come to appreciate more on a second watch once what he's trying to say has settled a bit in my head.
what ever happened to this guy
>>741432949I feel like the entire internet these days is made up exclusively of insecurity. People have this insatiable need to be the "funniest person in the room" and they all think the quickest way to do that is to just be the most insufferable asshole in the room instead.
>>741429147FUCK OFF, I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR E CELEB FAGGOTRY
>>741433680Yes? Where did I disagree?
>>741429147>more pretentious rambling about obvious and simple observations
>>741434240insecurity mixed with irrational self confidence.narcissism maybe?And I blame internet 2.0 social media for that.Being "social" on the internet is no longer about having conversations with other people, its about getting as many updoots and subscribers as you can.
>>741432721we already knew why it was bad we dont need a dipshit with big words to wave his cock around like he is better than us
I hope none of you actually watch this garbage for real
I’m glad he complained about old monster hunter. That shit gets felated way too much.
>>741429147No one fucking knows or cares who this is.
It's like he's trying to mix philosophy with videogames.>>741434617Sorry, Joseph, still not watching your videos.
The obsession balding American millennials have with mid Nintendo kids games from thirty years ago needs to be studied.It's never any other demographic, and it's never any other series. It's always muh Zelda muh Mario muh Pokemon.
Matt is one of the only good YouTubers so it makes sense nu-/v/ hates him. Reminder that this shithole has 50% of the traffic and posts per minute from 2 years ago. Add in chatgpt skinwalking as humans and you have /v/ down to 10-25% of what it used to be. This place is populated by vermin
Everyone is>Crying about "muh ecelebs" instead of engaging with the content of the discussion>Bitching and moaning about thoroughly defining a term>Mocking the idea of engaging with abstract ideas related to game design and analyzing themPaddy here isn't even doing anything which is that impressive, the bar for video games is just so fucking low that talking about them beyond a surface level or through a culture war lens stands out like a sore thumb. There's no hope for gaming as a medium anymore, the audience is too retarded and infantilized for it to get to reach the level of maturity of every other artform. It's emergence and rise in popularity being right at the time where all art became a race to the bottom of who can make more profitable slop didn't help either.
>>741434828Are you ok? Are you just typing words because it's free or do you really not have a brain?
>>741432721Culture has moved towards anti-intellectualism since the 60s. Not that talking about games (toys) is intellectual, but it's that any attempt at seriousness gets a knee-jerk reaction of hatred from audiences (retards)
>>741434967He said nothing new.
>You can't chop down a tree or crack a pillar in Elden Ring>This is good because you don't need that functionality>In the context of an open world ARPG, these things are just collision boxesMeanwhile the very first thing I ever tried to do when my brother handed me the controller during GTA San Andreas was chop down a tree with a chainsaw. I thought it was weird I couldn't do that then and I still think it's weird now.
>>741434828Some people had parents that bought them a N64 instead of a PS1 and they never recovered.
>>741434828it's funny because matt is actually the only guy who'll genuinely use games across a breadth of developers and time periods instead of *primarily* using mario, zelda and fromsoft as a crutch, particularly in his newer stuff.he's one of the few exceptions to what you describe and that's also why his newer stuff doesn't have mainstream slop appeal.
I did not care for the video essay man. Not that I think he's wrong or stupid, he's just the most boring-sounding man in the world. Blogging might be a way more appropriate (if way less popular) format for that kind of content. And if your immediate reaction is spouting the 3deep5u filtered apologia, then you really have no right to discuss strengths and weaknesses of a particular medium.Maybe somebody not being a massive Dork Sauce fan was a revolutionary notion in 2012, but when I tried to shore up my pretentious vidyagaems r art cred, I just really couldn't get what all the fuss was about. Guess it was all about being the first of his kind, but if you are limiting yourself to youtube, then you will never escape the yoke of gorillion hour recaps. Blogs by artfag devs will allow you to see the assertion, and blogs by tumblrite madmen will allow you to gauge contraposition.
>>741435020Video games have become slop appealing to the lowest common denominator. In his last few streams you can read between the lines and see his sheer disappointment with what gaming has become and the audience it attracts now.Gamers unironically deserve to be put into a concentration camp or a soviet labor prison. /v/ and twitter are a great barometer for how shit the industry has become.Any nation or culture that doesn’t deport and stomp out anti-intellectualism is doomed to become a zero trust shithole dystopia like Egypt or Brazil. The elitists were right. You cannot tolerate inferior people.
>>741434967>>Crying about "muh ecelebs" instead of engaging with the content of the discussionWhy would I engage in the content of a e-celeb video?
>>741435020>games are toys made for retards but you should still be very serious when evaluating them>you cant criticize unneccesary and pretentious verbel flourishes or you are anti intellectual>trust me negative a vaguely defined anti intellectualism that began three generations ago are the reason people disagree with meI can see why you like matthew. you might actually be a bigger pseud than he is
>>741435534>Video games have become slop appealing to the lowest common denominator. In his last few streams you can read between the lines and see his sheer disappointment with what gaming has become and the audience it attracts now.>have become>>have become>>>have becomeThe last time computer games were an intellectual's pursuit, you needed to run them on an oscilloscope.
sad aspies hate the thought of anyone in the room sounding like a bigger pseud than them when it comes to videogames, and lash out accordingly whenever matt is brought up. I think its because they dont know anything about anything beyond their worthless videogame takes.
>>741433595so, a grown adult
>>741434084He was just ahead of the curve on calling out rollslop, he just articulated it poorly and morons (like you) thought he was just saying the game was too hard but missed his point entirely. Nowadays pretty much everyone is sick to death of rollslop, there is nothing particularly fun or engaging about memorizing the individual timings for a 34 attack flurry followed by a short window to punish where you can get 2 or 3 hits in but that's what soulslikes have become, every fight is a new attack cycle to memorize, and its played out and boring. He called this out in his criticism for Dark Souls 2, saw where everything was headed, and pointed back to Demon's Souls as an example of how to use puzzle-like elements in these bosses with less reliance on monotonous battles of attrition where you rely on your rote memorization skills but instead perception and lateral thinking abilities. But the future, as always, refused to change.
>>741435041he doesn't say "this is good" he says at the very least it's internally consistent for those games.he says it's bad when games implicitly lie to you about how things actually work within their own systems. like being told you're helping and being helped by people in Death Stranding specifically for the parts that are obviously tied to playtime on your playthrough like bridge degradation.how did you miss the point this hard, it's right there
>>741435592No, that was the 90s before PC gaming died off. Old PC gaming died because it was fairly demanding to set up and you required real money to have a gaming PC .
>>741435652>Nowadays pretty much everyone is sick to death of rollslopElden Ring, and Nightreign were both hugely successful, and most people's complaints about Fromsoft as developers is that they still haven't made Elden Ring 2 yet.
>>741429147His point about the Nier automata's ending is so psued its crazy. Nobody watches the titanic and criticizes it by saying the actor didnt actually die at the end. Its a lie but that shouldnt matter to the player in that moment. You are supposed to buy in and delete your save file, anyone who doesnt is too up his own ass to enjoy anything. The whole point is joining those who selflessly do good, it shouldnt matter to you if the life system is technically infinite.
>just a pretentious video about games in generalNu-Matt a shit
>>741435041i don't think his point was that it's "good" you can't chop down trees in elden ring, just that it's not necessarily deceptive in the same way as like an invisible wall blocking you from platforming on some complicated geometry that looks like it helps you get to another area. like the whole point is that aesthetic deception isn't the same as saying "everything in a game has to be completely realistic or else the game is shit"
>>741435646>he felt compelled to defend his position by replying "but I'm an adult!!"lollmao evenenjoy your stay, tourist. just don't pretend to understand more than you do
>>741435593Regardless of if you like his videos or not, Matt is clearly smart and educated and it makes the average /v/ user (an unwashed pleb with an inferiority complex) seethe and scream bloody murder. Stupid people hate smart people because they are deeply threatened by them.
Why do MM threads have so many shitposters? Butthurt DS2 babbies?
>>741435781So basically you're mad he debunked the trolley problem
>>741429147I wonder if he came back because of that Dark Souls youtuber who made a hit piece on him.
>>741432721But yellow paint is kind of the opposite of what he's talking about no? Using Matt's definition, yellow paint is aesthetically honest. It's visual information that tells you true things about the game world on a mechanical level. The reason why gamers hate yellow paint is not because it lies to them but because it spoonfeeds the truth in a way that harms immersion.
>>741435781Let me guess, you also would press the blue button and think anyone who would press red is a psychopath?
>>741435652Demon's Souls requires no lateral thinking to complete. The puzzle fights are braindead easy mechanically and logically. This is the problem with Matthewmatosis and retards that stake their identity in following him. They just don't actually know what the hell they're talking about, and when they like something they just come up with the most exaggerated reasons for why that is.Demon's Souls is apparently an icon of creative problem-solving because the Armored Spider sits still and makes you run down a hallway so you could smack it in the head. True brilliance. There is exactly one (1) good puzzle in Demon's Souls. Killing the wizard that is protecting the Fool's Idol.
>>741429854>Elden Ring wrecked his Lost Soul Arts videoStrong disagree. If anything it reinforced it.
>>741435886Why do you think this retarded e-celeb deserves any better treatment than all the others?
>>741429147Dude made a shit ds2 video
who?kill yourself
>so butthurt over the reply he came back
>>741430742I have enjoyed his last 3 videos a lot. They're getting to the essence of what makes a game good. Useful to me as a gamedev.
>>741435534>Gamers unironically deserve to be put into a concentration camp or a soviet labor prison.This. Gamers deserve all the DEI gay nigger shit they complain about.
I'm gonna be honest I just don't have the patience or desire to listen to a british/irish guy meanderingly huff his own farts for 40 minutes abut game design anymore.
>>741435781The "actors didn't actually die" analogy is awful.A more accurate analogy would be a game where your choices don't matter, like Mass Effect 3's ending. Up until that point you're immersed because in a blind playthrough you really think everything so far has been a cascading effect of your decisions. In that moment you're emotionally invested.When you finish and then realize it would've all been the same regardless, yes it absolutely cheapens the experience. People are rightfully angry at RPGs that lie to you so it's fair to point it out in other games that do it more implicitly.
>>741435781i don't think the ending was bad, but it is objectively true that the "sacrifice" mechanic is a blatant lie and you're opting in to some kind of meta larp when you delete your save file. it's a lie that is used very effectively and probably makes the game better than if they didn't have that aspect at all, but it is still an example of where a blatant lie is given center stage in the ending of a game
Yellow paint is based because it treats gamers exactly like what to deserve to be treated as: retardsThey won’t do shit about it either, they’ll still buy the games
>>741432723>Only 5 minutes into this video, he sounds depressedHe sounds exactly the same, you schizo.
>>741429147This dude peaked with saying nigger.
can we ban eceleb threadsthey belong on reddit or tictak
>>741432058>>741436029Wrong. Elden Ring keeps up the novelty, but does so in a far smarter and more interesting way than Demon's Souls.
What the fuck goombas aren't real!?!?
>>741429147is that nigga homeless yet
>ERM, I know A LOT about game design, actuallyI fucking hate these types of videos. Finish your basic indie game and move on, you pseudo-intellectual.
>>741436386"Goombas aren't real" incredible potential just like "Sekiro is a terrible racing game"
>25 minutes of yapping about hitboxes not matching visualswew
>>741429147he spoiled nier automata wtf i was playing it
>>741436076cope tranny
>>741436364Elden ring shows off that novelty really well when it makes you fight the same boss for the 10th time.
>>741436564the only thing elden ring was novel with was magic/incants.worst boss design in the series.
>bloodborne is dishonestkek sonygroes seething
>>741435593The evidence is all around us
>>741429147>disappears for 3 years only to shit out another rambling slop video where he vaguely strings together a series of dumb opinionsDoes anyone even jerk off this guy anymore? Who are these videos for?The bit about coyote time being bad is especially retarded. No wonder he gave up on designing a platformer lol.
>>741434967>Paddy here isn't even doing anything which is that impressive, the bar for video games is just so fucking low that talking about them beyond a surface level or through a culture war lens stands out like a sore thumb. There's no hope for gaming as a medium anymore, the audience is too retarded and infantilized for it to get to reach the level of maturity of every other artform.You're confusing /v/ for videogames. /v/ has deteriorated a lot over the years.
>>741435895>>741436248>>741436263You arent smart for choosing not to engage with art by poking holes in the fiction. Thats why its the same as actors not really dying, its a pointless comment regarding how the art is made instead of actually engaging with what it is trying to tell you. Anyone who thinks it over will realize that ofcourse the game isnt actually storing peoples save data to delete in real time whenever someone loses a life during the ending. That doesnt cheapen anything its still a very cool ending and you should still want to be a part of the list of people that want to hold others up so they can reach the finish line.
>>741436564Never happens.
>>741436703/v/ is for /v/irgins now.
>>741429147At the end of the day matthewmatosis is just another tendie
>>741429197>whomstA retard who ruined /v/ for years. Every smooth brain autist adopted his retarded opinions as their own.
>>741435652gimmick bosses are shit because when you replay the game you just kill them immediately with no effort.
>aesthetic deception>coyote time
>>741429728How come Vinny's hair length never changes?
>>741435781Yeah basically almost every single criticism he makes in this video would lead to shittier games lol. It's actually crazy how detached he is from the basic player experience nowadays.
>>741436970it's a mystery
>>741436743I didn't play the game btw if that matters.
>>741435593How many autistic "women" immediately clicked the video the second they could and went in fully planning to disagree and roll their eyes at everything he said no matter what it was?Anyone doing that needs to ask themselves why they feel compelled to do so. But it's exactly this kind of introspection they will do anything to avoid. And by anything I mean spend 12 hours a day, every day, thinking about how everyone else in the world is wrong about everything.(Image specifically chosen to draw the attention of autistic people who still like kingdom hearts even though they're almost 40)
>>741436692>The bit about coyote time being bad is especially retardedit was one of his especially good points because it challenges what GMTK-slurping redditors parrot as universally canonized Good Game Design™.if coyote time becomes expected, whether its through the player peeling back the illusion itself or through it becoming adopted by games en masse, then it defeats its own purpose.people will eventually start factoring it in for jumps, and get frustrated when they're off by a few pixels again. should you extend coyote time further for those people? at what point wouldn't you rather just the game be accurate to what the visuals convey? the feeling of "sureness" a game provides goes a long way in it feeling good to play
>>741429147MATTHEWMATOSISMATTHEWMATOSISMATTHEWMATOSISThanks for making a new video, see you again in 10 years
I'm 21 and I feel that video is too high IQ for me. I didn't understand what he was trying to say
>>741435921hbomberguy?the same hbomberguy that used to be a troll on metokur and was friends with self admitted pedo sarah nyberg?
>>741429728>Anglo Saxon phenotypeHoly moly.
>>741436886coyote time was defined long before this videohttps://youtu.be/RFix_Kg2Di0if you've ever even vaguely thought about game dev you've surely heard the term before
>Dark Souls 2 CritiqueFirst tower>The Lost Soul Arts of Demon's SoulsSecond towerMatthewMatosis is responsible for the 9/11 of rollslop fags.
>>741436976It's just the textbook definition of clinical autism. Neurodivergents crave honesty and strict codes of practices, with little to no deviation. They want efficient, optimized systems and routines that intersect without conflict. The problem is that the world is messy and perfectionism leads to idealism, something humanist and ultimately done as a disservice to the divine.
>>741437160hes trying to say this:"Give me money. Money me. Money now. Me a money needing a lot now."
>>741437060I can tell you didn't. Elden Ring does not have an issue with excessive reused fights.
>>741437160Try watching it again later. It's easier to understand these things the second time around.
>>741437160Old games = honestNew games = dishonest
>>741429147who
>>741437192>friends with self admitted pedodon't pretend you give a shit. 10 bucks says you love the oneyplays crew and shadman.
>>741437256Terrible bait. Try harder next time.
>>741436736yeah well I think Mass Effect 3's ending is incredible because at that moment I really thought everything was happening exactly because of my choices. what an amazing game and well executed finale, bravo Bioware!
Electric Underground mogged this unc
>>741437064Matthewmatosis is exactly the same type of person as the one you're complaining about. He's around 40 years old and still obsesses over his childhood games.
>>741429147He needs to apologize for negatively shaping Soulsborne discourse for 10+ years
>>741437256lol
>>741437109All this to say that you will never play a platformer without coyote time because it simply feels like shit to play.
holy shit this is the wordiest and most fartsniffing explanation of hitboxes I've ever seendoes he think we're fucking cavemenguy does gamedev for the first time and now thinks he has arcane knowledgeinsufferable
>>741437309i dont give a shit about jewgroundsi just hate hypocrites like hbomberguy who brag about being good people and get others in trouble when they do worse shit
matthewmatosis is the ben shapiro of the youtube gamer commentary space.
>>741437232LOL
>>741437372>he needs to apologize for being right
>>741437371That doesn't make what I said untrue
>>741429147God this is so pretentious... yet saw the whole video and felt something inside I haven't in a long time. He's pretty good at that
Summary: coyote time is bad because it lies to the player. I disagree. Jumping off ledges is so quick you can't actually see the coyote-time without analyzing footage. It's fine.
>>741437418>why this nigga spend hundreds of pages tellin me how an apple fall down from a tree, errybody already know that shit
>>741429147>the part where he starts unironically consider the possibility of using conscious digital life forms in gameswew lad
>>741437353I never played mass effect, seems kinda dogshit from the outside looking in. I cant imagine being this tricked of like you said nothing changes.
>>741434583>wave his cock around like he is better than usThis is entirely in your head.
>>741437426>>741435921>>741437426>>741437309>>741437192imagine knowing who any of these trannies areKYS faggots
>>741437480Dissent is a crime punishable by shitty two hour long response videos according to DS2 troons.
>>741437542>it's not lying if I'm too stupid to notice it
>>741437426never saw such instances of acting morally superior- the dood just grew out of his edgy phase and probably (most likely) had troll remorse where introspection led him to make the videos he makes nowstop regressing anon, work up on your sexy
>>741437475Mattew was right about rollslop, we just didn't listen.
>>741437309'ate Shadmanluv me OneyplaysSimple as
>>741429147>nearly 25 minutes just to say 'games are sometimes dishonest'so this is the power of game essayists
>>741437192>sarah nybergwomen can't be pedos
Why did he choose RDR footage at 1:00? Because it's a realistic game?
>>741437398The Wario Land series doesn't have coyote time
>>741437160see >>741434228his early Youtube videos are what most video essays try to be now, where he does a beat-by-beat breakdown of a Nintendo or Metal Gear or FromSoft game.I think he ascended within the BotW video because he talked so much about what mainstream video essayists didn't cover in their recap and surface level examinations of game design.His Mega Microvideos (and to an extent God of War case study) is the beginning of his "thoughts on games as a whole" arc. His Rain World video is very underrated too, it's beautiful.I think if you watch Intrinsic Motivation or this new one as a first video it absolutely will come across as autistic rambling. and that's ok.Meta Microvideos is unironically a fantastic work of art; the Platonic Ideal of video essays.Call me a shill or fanboy or whatever, I'm allowed one parasocial relationship.
>>741437695>You are le mature if you become an annoying faggot who hangs out with pedophiles.
For me it's Onolumi :D
>>741437539It's his voice and the lack of stupid background music that most nu-tubers useRefreshing and kinda nostalgic
Its not a terrible video, just spitefully written to take poor use of 23 minutes.His automata example is pretty good though. The ending is not as magical when you realize the save system sacrifices are fake
>>741437801>Muh pedosGo and witchunt the current administration for me, pretty please!
>>741429728Vinny is so beautiful, I wish he was my BF. (Gay)
>>741429147What the hell is even his point in this video?>games have hitbox and thus they lie to us with sprites and models>some games have more dissonance between hitboxes and graphics and others have less>some games have railway sections where you can't fail and that is a lie too>thank you for watching my videoI mean, that's fucking obvious, what am I supposed to do with that retarded information?
>>741437689Fiction is a lie, but what's the point of a lie if it isn't told properly? Are you also the sort of person who complains about the unfairness of "trial and error" design, because it is unfeasible to beat literally everything without failing / dying even once?
>>741437927>what am I supposed to do with that retarded information?Now you too can spend years working on a mediocre game just like Matthew.
>proceeds to jerk off BotW even though it engages in all the "aesthetic deceptions" he just listed and then somebrother, what are we doingthis is not the same MatthewMatosis from 12 years ago, his brain is mushI know it's basically like kicking someone in a wheelchair but I would really like to see someone just go to town on him and deconstruct all the garbage he's put out post-"Lost Soul Arts" (the start of the decline IMO), I'm too lazy lol
>>741437728Anon, the clip shows matthew's embarrassing lack of even the most basic skill and situational awareness, making his critique null. The Dark Souls 2 video was the exact moment his credibility was shattered
>>741437772He was using it to contrast with Spore, which uses mostly fictional depictions of small organisms drawn with cartoony proportions but is otherwise a faithful attempt to put the player in the role of basic life. Meanwhile, RDR is infinitely more realistic and accurate in its portrayal of things, but it wrestles control away frequently as seen in cutscenes and other long animations.
>>741437885I'm not american so do it yourself, fag.
>>741429147people who watch youtube video essayists deserve to be shot
>>741437982Wtf happened to him? I know he streams like twice a year while "working" on videos. The lost soul arts and the dmc commentary are the last videos I remember watching.
>>741437793>and surface level examinations of game designThat's exactly what he's doing. You fell for flowery language, you dipshit.
>>741429147No thanks I can think for myself I don't need a youtuber to do it for me like the retarded brainlets who watch this kind of content.
>>741429728j mascis?
>>741437982>BotW even though it engages in all the "aesthetic deceptions" he just listed and then somesuch as?
>>741430072
>>741437821>>741437958>>741438081If you're going to dump, get a pass and at least make it someone people know
this thread moving faster than the sticky is all you need to know about the current state of /v/ we should have gatekept harder
>>741438192Yeah, it shows at least some people still care about game design.
>>741437997>"If I cherry pick one clip out of the hours of footage of him playing souls games, that means everything he says doesn't matter! I've never ever ever had a moment where I've played poorly in any game btw"
>>741438172
>>741438027Thank you for your valuable insight.
>>741438192why is /v/ so much worse than usual tonight
>>741429147Awesome!
>>741429903the disrespectful cuy butthole makes it better
>>741431036his writing has gotten way better
>>741436001You are presupposing difficulty as a prerequisite to quality and also arguing with a strawman by implying that Matthewmatosis values “puzzle” bosses for their difficulty. He’s very clear on what value the unorthodox boss design of Demon’s Souls brings.
>>741438192uncs lost, brainrotted zooms and alphas keep on winning and blasting uncs in the open!
>>741438192If we removed all the shitposters ITT and kept only the good faith posters it would move at 10% the pace.
>>741438192>you have to care about some ancient composer that just ripped off grunge bands because he worked on muh dewm
>>741438302>tonightThis is an American site and it is 10 am in the US, 1 PM on the east coast
>>741437997How exactly does it show that?
>>741438371>here's a mechanic everyone is aware of and understands >let me explain it to death and think of all the possible ways in which it could be used or misused and how it might affect the player such a genius writer
>>741435921I'm pretty sure the guy who made that video was hoping people would have it playing on their second monitor and not be paying attention. He starts the video with a retarded comparison between the death counter in the menu in Demon's Souls and the total number of all player deaths tracker in DS2. He also was getting wrecked in the comments because he was seething so much and deleted a bunch of comments that got more likes than his kek
I always come back to these.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd4F9mk8AC0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-uB9uxdLmk
Was Breath of the Wild the last new video game he legit enjoyed? I havent seen him speak positively about any new game since.
>>741429147
>>741429147>Aesthetic Deception>Mechanical Darwinism>Self-Serve Difficulty>Resource Snowing
>>741438124NTA but the examples are literally in the video>invisible walls>pillars and walls without collision>grass in some areas you can't interact withand one he didn't show was jank hitboxes which applies to things like the Hinox and Stone Talus
>>741437997This is a reasonable complaint, because Dark Souls 2 is borderline supposed to be played locked-off but the game gives you no logical easoning why this should be the case Ornstein and Smough is basically the only time this happens in 1, and the solution is to lock on to the farther enemy and focus the closer one. This is how every other combat encounter plays out in Dark Souls 2 except its juggling 5+ enemies instead of 2 large ones.The Dragonrider clip is him demonstrating how silly it is because playing locked on is a literal detriment 90% of the time despite being a main mechanic. The point is that if this is the direction they wanted to go, they shouldve adopted a God Hand movement system with no lock on at all.
>>741438535No way, a DS 2 defender being retarded?
I'm not familiar with this guy other than as "the retard that was wrong about ds2", why does he have such a cult-like fans?The way in which some anons are defending him ITT is genuinely unhinged, you'd think he's literally their god
>>741435041he didn't say it was good
>>741438054as an example, his points about first person shooters in Context Sensitivity were genuinely interesting, if that's surface level please tell me other youtube guys who are on the same level because I want to watch more stuff like that but you are just contrarianposting. it doesn't make you above the pseuds you think you're shitting on, retardo
>>741437109I don't need you parroting Matt's awful take back at me, thanks. I understood it perfectly the first time - it's just dumb.If you want the (really fucking obvious) counterargument: different games are designed differently. (Holy shit what a concept!) Why should a good design practice that most competent platformers have be discarded just because it's implemented differently across games? Imagine applying that to different multiplayer shooters with different movement mechanics, or fighting games with different control schemes.There's always going to be some adjustment required when you first play a game to figure out how to interact with it. That's a fundamental of playing a fucking video game. That's what makes a skill floor a skill floor.Matthew has devolved into autistic pedantry rather than actually considering what makes games enjoyable to play.
>>741437064matthewmatosis said nigger on stream. he isn't woke or a "woman" advocate
>>741438702>"the retard that was wrong about ds2You mean spot on and has caused 10+years worth of seething
>>741438702He was right actually
>>741438727>please tell me other youtube guys who are on the same level because I want to watch more stuff like thatLiterally any talking about game design. Let your horrendous bias and retarded parasocial nonsense go.
He really should’ve included better examples of games that avoid aesthetic deception. Noita and BOTW are pretty far out on that spectrum and aren’t completely devoid of it as he points out. It is a very tall order to simple ask fighting game devs to deviate from the standard hitbox/hurtbox template, let alone most games. Omitting coyote time is something I can envision slower-paced platformers working but less so for something faster like sonic. I understand that the expectation of all platformers incorporating it in some way introduces both homogenization and inconsistency but there are rarely platformers that would wholly benefit with its exclusion. Perhaps the coyote time should be visualized rather than inferred through trial and error to be as aesthetically truthful as possible?
>>741438620a cautionary tale for our dear mickget out of your wheelhouse comfort zone and you'll be spouting total nonsense to people more invested in the genre than you are
>>741438702>the retard that was wrong about ds2its the opposite, hes the first person to actually call it out when the journos were all giving it better scores than Demon's/Dark despite it being worse for 90% of the fanbase
Matthewmatosis, Electric Underground, John Blow debate would change gaming industry
>>741438702The DaS2roach can't help but out himself. the irony of talking about others being in a cult worshipping mediocrity is too delicious. Surely this is just incredibly high iq replybait, well done.
>>741433502>>741433595kys parasocial zoomers
>>741429147and that's why twilight princess is shit. you see this ledge? you can't climb it
>muh details>muh abstractions>muh hitboxes>muh rules>muh autismwhat a waste of time
>>741438841>Literally any talking about game designsuch as?
>>741438727>his points about first person shooters in Context Sensitivity were genuinely interesting>here is a winded explanation of how lock-on works at the basic level
>>741438383Challenge has always been a main part of the design process for Souls games. They aren't purely hard for the sake of fucking with you like Cat Mario or Ghosts and Goblins, but they're also intended to be challenges that you will lose at a bunch. This is why many of the best bosses in the series are also some of the hardest, and that difficulty is also why people love them. Matthew treats novelty as the same as gameplay. As in novelty is the heart of gameplay in his mind. That is the point of the Lost Soul Arts video. To him the novelty of Demon's Souls's boss challenges is good gameplay in of itself. That is why he rates something like Maiden Astraea (a simplistic fight against a dumb NPC that can be chain backstabbed to death with ease) above boss fights in DS3. Every bossfight in DS3 is a better fight than Garl Vinland, but it doesn't matter because the game isn't a hodgepodge of novelty. To Matthewmatosis, execution is barely relevant when he critiques a game. To him the best thing a game could be is novel in as many ways as possible.The problem with that is novelty on its own is not worth much because it is entirely reliant on you experiencing that 'something' for the first time in a certain context for it to matter. Nothing is actually new under the sun. >heavily built up boss is an anti-climax Only works once in your life. If Matthew ever played a shooter that wasn't Metal Gear Solid, he'd have popped his cherry on Paxton from F.E.A.R, as a classic example of a boss that is anti-climactic for story reasons. And stuff like True King Allant or Astraea wouldn't have effected him as much. Execution is far more important because even if you've seen it before, seeing something executed extremely well is still engrossing.
>>741438893>Surely this is just incredibly high iq replybait, well done.We can only hope.
>>741429197The progenitor of larp
>>741438938Adam Millard
>>741438905why are you obsessed with zoomers, zoomer?
>>741438915Me on the right
>half the thread doesnt even know who matthew islmao, eceleb or not it really makes you think
He's making a good point but the whole video could have been a /v/ post. "Visuals should ideally line up with the mechanics" is hardly a profound new idea and one he has made before. Like he said people often complain about fighting game hitboxes.In fact its basically just an extension of the yellow paint shit where players have grown to hate games that signpost "this is the video game part you can interact with."
>>741438702Thats crazy because its the exact opposite. DS2 cultist pretend everyone else has their oppinion handed to them by a youtuber, when the game really just sucks. I was dissapointed by ds2 on release before I even knew who matthew was
>>741438827>>741438868>>741438826ok I don't really care much what you or him think about ds2 adress the actual questionwhy do some anons defend and worship him in such an unhinged way?as seen:>>741435874>>741437546>>741438256>>741437064
I genuinely don't think gaming needs his type of cynical nihilism right now.
>>741437895total janny death btw
>>741438656Lock on is an assist, not the central mechanic. The game would have it happen automatically if it was meant to always happen. Breath of the Wild has an auto-lock-on feature. Dark Souls doesn't.
>>741439006>purely hard for the sake of fucking with you like Ghosts and GoblinsThank you for letting me know your opinion has no value
>>741439104source?
>>741438702He's verbose and he talks about /v/core games like Kojima or Kamiya shit. He also happened to post a lot on /v/ back during the board's halcyon days in the 2010s.
>>741439149They genuinely believe that the evil youtubers made everyone hate the game and it totally wasn't because it was an unfun piece of shit
>>741429147I watched it. It's a very good video. It gave me something to ponder that I haven't consider so far. I wish people with this level of nuanced thought made posts in this shithole, but I guess it's too much to ask.
>he only had 5 vtuber screencaps so he starts posting Falloutlmao, that's what happens when she's a nobody
>>741437398cinematic platformers have never had this and are some of my favorite games
>>741439175hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>>741439149>the graphics >the lightning>the slow ass gameplay>the reused bosses >literally only the tower of heide looking goodDAS2 is like a fever dream going from one retarded area to another, with no rhyme or reason.
>>741439213>enemies randomly spawn in the middle of normal jump paths so you have to trial and error your way through certain levelsThe GnG series are not fair games at all, and no one pretends that they are.
>>741437821>>741437895>>741437958>>741438275>>741438407>>741438513>>741438595>>>/vt/ranny
>>741439336>It gave me something to ponder that I haven't consider so far.You never considered that having busy level design with terrain you can't traverse and features you can't interact with is bad design? Are you retarded?
>>741439356And its toggled off by default.
>>741436976I don't think he's actually suggesting Automata remove the illusion, though. He makes the point that "aesthetic deception" can enhance the experience in some ways, but that it comes with trade-offs. In the case of Automata, it's that it requires you to willfully play along with a scenario that, when you think about it, is entirely smoke and mirrors, and that won't work for some and the effect will be cheapened as a result.
>>741438256>>"If I cherry pick one clip out of the hours of footageAnon, that gameplay footage was used by matthew to ''prove'' that the Twin Dragonrider boss is unfair, it's supposed to be a scathing piece of evidence that shows multiple enemy encounters in DaS2 are badly crafted. But what it shows is matthewmatosis struggling with an extremely basic, and also completely fair encounter. The Dragonrider archer has a sound cue before he fires, and fires at the same interval. The arrows have poor tracking and can be avoided by strafing to the side. You can even break the platform the archer is standing on to alter the boss, something you'd think matthew would appreciate. It's absolutely hilarous that he interpreted this fight as ''having to keep both enemies on screen at all times'', and thought his footage was damning evidence against DaS2Despite being known for his Souls videos, matthew is very much sub-par at Souls games and doesn't know that much about them>>741438456See above
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuBIW9h4qw4The link BTWReminds me of the famous Super Bunnyhop video of MGS2 which is of a particular era but still memorable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw
>>741439383janny approved eceleb thread :)
>>741439349rare Matt
>>741438756I don't think anyome would disagree with you that the same mechanic can be good in one game and detrimental in another. The post you reply is shitting on the idea that something is universally good, but it doesn't mean the thing it calls out is universally bad.I think the point is much more simple than that- when the curtain is peeled back, as it eventually is, it's generally preferable to have less dissonance between visuals and the game's logic.if you ever get into trying to blaze through your favorite platformers like an old Sonic game, say, then you are going to start accounting for coyote time if it exists on top of the standard platform hitbox. it's not always *bad* but it can feel extraneous, once you're past the first casual getting-used-to-things stage.
>>741439356>>741439439You know what else is?Manual attack aiming because the implication is to use lock-on, dumb faggot
>>741438893> the irony of talking about others being in a cult worshipping mediocrity is too deliciousbro you are seething in anger at the thought someone might not like some pretentious video essay sloptuber while writing this
>>741439349>>741439470Cute irish lad
>>741439446>unfairWhen did he use that word
>>741435749kek, probably because it's the most punishing if you roll around like a /v/tard and not use the dozen plus other options to avoid damage. But alas that requires one to play it which barely anyone here does anyway.
>>741439383meant for >>741429147
One example of gameplay deception which I hate but is universally praised by youtube critics is dynamic difficulty adjustment (ala RE4). There's a reason why RE4 turns it off on the high difficulty, and a same reason that shit didn't spread: it's annoying and unpredictable. You can achieve the same result without lying to the player.
>ledges you can't climb bad>pillars and walls without weapon collision bad>misleading gaps you can't enter bad>invisible walls bad>scripted finales bad>so anyway, BotW has all of these and is good
>>741439446>10+ year veteran making a clip specifically to show how easily cheesable it is because of 10 years of experience vs >guy playing in the first month legitimately disingenuous faggot
>>741439356What this does is lock-on to the next enemy after the one you were previously locked on to is killed. It doesn't automatically lock onto every enemy you come across, disingenuous retard>>741439495You are so fucking dumb lol
I'm too lazy and I don't even care enough to press the "Summarise this shit for me AI" button on the video.Just give me a shitty tldr in less than 4 sentences
How did he find a gf that doesn't get the ick from this shit?
>newfag having a melty because jannies allow /v/core Matt discussion
>>741435534elitism is the keythe internet used to be inherently elitist by naturally selecting people who were more curious and interested.The proper safeguards were not put into place to preserve certain areas of the internet from the masses.But this Matthew guy is not really catering to the elitists either as >>741436073 points out, he's trying to have a real discussion with a bunch of social media addicts on youtube. If he were running a blog he would get a lot less fans but more interested fans.>>741438938GDC talks are probably a huge one, lots of really nice stuff there. Not that I hate this OP guy or anything.
>>741439629>scripted finales badscripted finales aren't bada game lying to you about its finale not being scripted isis everyone in this thread stupid but me I feel like I'm taking crazy pills
>>741429843Nigger, you can't even leave your house without feeling embarrassed, imagine thinking the scum you idolize wouldn't feel disgust if you ever came near them.
>>741439648>What this does is lock-on to the next enemy after the one you were previously locked on to is killedbecause the implication is to use lock on>its not a main mechanic, but half of the menu options revolve around it are we just really gonna pretend Souls didn't largely revolve around a lock-on system? It didnt even have fully omnidirectional movement
>>741439546Never. He even acknowledges that the one firing the bow has audio cues, but that they were being overshadowed by the music so their volume should've been increased. These retards love lying to you.
>>741439657no, kys
>>741439158Unhinged is met with unhinged. Plenty of the criticisms ITT are just a different flavor of it.
>>741439657TL;DW: games can sometimes mislead the player yes apparently this was worth turning into a 25 minute ramble
>>741439732>a game lying to you about its finale not being scripted isAnd that's exactly what the final "boss" of BotW is. It barely moves, it can't hit you, but the game keeps shoving the supposed urgency down your throat and insisting he'll get loose.
Seems like a boring topic
>>741439641>didn't adress anything the anon said>obvious anger that someone might criticize his god exuding from the postI ask again, ignore ds2 or anything else, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WORSHIP THIS GUY?
>>741439432There are such things as busy design or invisible walls that I have noticed, but the conceptualization of the connection between what is made to be perceived by the player and the relevancy or veracity of that conveyed information is not something I have done in my head, no. What you're talking about is tangential to what the video is actually about, which makes me wonder whether you even understood it.
>>741439662it's his live-in carer and/or sister
>>741439657Game design can mislead youAlso, Zelda does it but it's fine because....just because, okay?
>>741439641>>10+ year veteran making a clip specifically to show how easily cheesable it is because of 10 years of experienceLOL you don't need 10 years of experience to understand spacing, to know that it's often better to not lock on and to run away from or around attacks to avoid them. That's how anyone who was even remotely decent at DeS and DaS1 played Dark Souls 2. But yes, matthew's gameplay was on the level of someone who never held a controller before>>741439546That's what he implies with the whole essay
>>741439662She's an even bigger pseud than he is
>>741439807Is he autistic?
glad ten years later we can finally acknowledge how nier automatas ending is so fake and gay
>>741439853Matthew, is that you?
>>741429147THERE HE IS THAT NIGGER-GUYIS HE GOING TO SAY THE WORD AGAIN!? AHHHHHHHH
>>741438614new zach games and gob resurrected?
>>741439853>the conceptualization of the connection between what is made to be perceived by the player and the relevancy or veracity of that conveyed information is not something I have done in my headnigger you do it subconsciouslyhe's not some savant, you know this shit too
>>741439521the only people seething are dark souls ii fans a whole decade later, and for many decades to come desu
>>741437982>>741438646Except the argument wasn't that BotW had none of what he's describing, merely that it had a lot less of it than other games. I know half of /v/ despises the notion that BotW can do anything right, but that's definitely a merit it has.
>>741438656belome?
>>741436364Elden ring has fuck all novelty, it's just recycled shit from the previous souls games. Again.
>>741437064Why are all trannies the same person anyway?>wake up>spend entire day being snarky and calling everything bad>but decides an objectively shit thing is "secretly good" because of vibes and makes liking it their whole personalityEvery single one of these gals is exactly like this. Anyone else have the same experience?>>741438768Read the whole post, and slower next time.
It's a good video but I think he's a bit spergy about his obsession with mechanical honesty. Sure gameplay should ideally be as truthful as possible with minimal invisible walls, inaccurate hitboxes etc, but unless all you want to play are puzzle games its kind of an inherently dishonest medium. Like he points out himself the virtual characters and story on screen will never be real and that's fine, mechanical honesty is good to strive for but at some point you have to accept some limitations
>>741439764>because the implication is to use lock onIt's not, if it was the game would just automatically lock you onto every enemy that gets near you>are we just really gonna pretend Souls didn't largely revolve around a lock-on system? You and matthew interpreting the lock on system as ''must be locked on at all times even when it's obviously best avoided'' is total user error, not bad game design
>>741432058Shazam lost and got thoroughly raped
>>741439862>>741439925>>741439984>>741440082>>>/vt/ranny
>>741440125janny approved eceleb thread
>>741439965>it had a lot less of it than other gamesIt has a shitload of those situations in any mountainous region. It's especially bad toward the sea where it seems they randomly assigned invisible barriers and the game considering you out of bounds before dumping you back in.
>>741439862
>>741438702I'm attracted to his intelligence. I value his insights as a gamedev.
>>741439780>but that they were being overshadowed by the musicThey aren't. He still implies that boss and most multi enemy encounters in DaS2 are badly designed. Stop being disingenuous
>>741439818you can die in the Calamity Ganon finale, it's just hard to do.it's far less dishonest than NieR telling you every shield is a person's save file and having the "Cumgargler's data has been lost" text pop up every time you take a hit, and that you can do the same for others and the mechanic works as described
>>741440145>>741440153>doesn't even have enough images of one vtuber to keep this goingwhat are you doing anon
>>741440062>but unless all you want to play are puzzle gamesfunny thing is that's exactly what he didhis game was originally gonna be a platformer and he spent like 5 years autistically obsessing over collision detection, then he gave up on it and made a puzzle game
>>741429147His argument against coyote time in platformers is bafflingly stupid and no amount of drenching it in convoluted smart-sounding language changes makes it a good argument. >Do you really want to remember an arbitrary amount of coyote time for each one? Or would you rather rely on the visuals to be honest?We already have arbitrary information associated with each platformer to learn. Movement speed, jump heights, gravity, movesets, etc. Why would familiarizing yourself with the lenience of coyote time in a particular platform be any different?
>What if Goomba was real and exploded in hyper-realistic blood when Mario jumps on him?Uhh ok what's the point?
>>741439349>>741439470That actually him?
>Matt got filtered by Donkey Kong Countrylmao
>>741437982>seething because he liked BOTWCope
>>741440238Is there anything more cringe than "based" chud vtubers?
Gotta love seeing all the shitskins seething at Matt.
>>741429953Lmao I still listen to sleepycast clips from time to time
>>741435593This
>>741439965>merely that it had a lot less of it than other gamesThat's not true either.Hell there's even an example in that clip: the wildlife. If you chase after them and they go too far from their spawn point ("far" being not very far at all) they will literally disappear into thin air. The simulation disintegrates with the tiniest pokes.
can you please start hating youtubers and streamers like you did ten years agonu-nu-nu /v/ is such a fucking shitholeall fields
>>741439446That's all completely wrong though. The context of the clip was that multi-enemy fights don't work well with how the lock-on works and that clip shows that with how the angle of the camera locked on to either enemy hides the other, and he even mentions the bow audio cue being insufficient because it's quieter than the other audio in the fight which the clip also demonstrates because you can't hear the firing of either arrow behind the audio of the attacks of the grounded dragonrider. Whether you can break the platform or dodge the arrows by strafing is irrelevant because doing either is completely independent of the camera issues.
>>741440145>>741440153>>741440238>>>/vt/ranny
>>741440301yes, troon speedrunners.
>>741440472They're in the same category.
>>741440180>They aren't.I watched some gameplay of the fight just now. The music is pretty loud and the other dragonrider is making a ton of noise with his attacks, making it much harder to hear. How about (You) stop being disingenuous, faggot?
>>741439954understanding something only in a subconscious/instinctive way inherently means you haven't formally examined it.Nobody said the guys a savant, you obviously feel threatened by a simple conversation.
>>741440470see>>741440145
>>741440146These are all on the boundaries of the game's map, from memory, and they're acknowledged in the video. The issue is that nearly every game has these due to limitations with the medium not allowing for infinite handcrafted play-spaces. Also, pointing to different individual cases of invisible walls is missing the point entirely, regardless. His point was about the kinds of "aesthetic deception" (still don't like the term) in the game, not about counting how many invisible walls a Mario 64 level has compared to BotW.
>/v/ focusing on a (mostly very fair) DaS2 release critique Matt made 12 years ago instead of the slop videos he's made since then>so they can talk about other e-celebs and groups they don't likebruh
>>741440225>Movement speed, jump heights, gravity, movesetsThese are all static core mechanics. They don't change the way they function at random.
>>741429147Normally I like Matthew but I don't really agree with a lot of the things he says in this video, did anyone really think there was a 1:1 correlation between sacrificed save data and players helped in Nier Automata? The game doesn't even really strongly imply there is, the "x's data was lost" thing could easily be seen as meaning it was lost to you, not to everyone globally. And either way he later says that games are understood to be somewhat metaphorical or analogous so like what even is the point here.There are also some weird inconsistencies like how he complains about coyote time, but later says that it's fine for trees in Elden Ring to not be simulated realistically because their behavior is consistent within the game and indicated by visuals. But coyote time is also going to be consistent within a platformer and it's indicated by whatever amount of time your character has been visibly off the ground. I really don't understand what the impetus is for this whole argument, many people enjoy learning obscure or unintuitive mechanics in video games.
>if you time your jump, you can make the gap>hmm yes I see quite the observation very introspective>but that's something every player knows>HOW DARE YOU INSULT HIM YOU'RE JUST MAD BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FORM YOUR THOUGHTS THAT WELL
>>741440225This guy is the typical "barely above average intelligence midwit who think he's a genius" and His fans most all be idiots to eat this shit up thinking he's so smart and insightfull and not some pretentious fag with an extreme case of dunning kruger effect
>>741440617>bruhGo back.
whoever you are, spammer-kun, i respect the hustlea bit too obvious imho, i thing you need to lean more into falseflags rather than blatant "making the thread unusable" tactic
>>741440505>you obviously feel threatened by a simple conversation.I'm not the one who immediately put up a defense by dismissing anyone implying you were even remotely parasocial.
>>741440632Neither does coyote time. The rule is>For X amount of time after leaving the edge of terrain, you're still allowed to jumpNo different than any other core mechanic that you have to learn when playing a new platformer.
>>741440698Are big sweaty tomboy tits the cure to rampant pseud eceleb dicksucking?
>>741429303Mork is a garbage retard Matt has 50 IQ points on his dumbass AT LEAST
>>741440396Would that fall into his own definition? It's a limitation of the game's systems, sure, but whilst the wildlife is there it's real and can be interacted with in the ways you'd intuitively inspect, for the most part.
>>741440717He's doing a pretty shit job. It's obvious he's manually selecting images and posting and I'll just make a new thread when this one dies.
>>741440753Let's find out
>>741440632Neither does coyote time in a platformer, retard.
>>741440198>be anon>think other anon is also other anonMany such cases :)
>>741440808
>>741440640It's pedantic slop like most of the stuff he's put out in the last 5+ years.
>>741440225all other things accounted for, minimizing visual and functional dissonance is generally good, within reason.he basically makes the same point in his context sensitivity video. everything can't be truly context insensitive obviously, even jumping can be said to be context sensitive because you have to be on the ground before you can jump.and he examines and pushes these defintions frankly a little too much, because people like you think that's his point, whereas his main point is beyond the essentials a game *generally* feels better to play if there's minimized context sensitivity/aesthetic deception.also he's so boundaries-of-definition and exception focused he even cold opens the video into saying one of his favorite games (Ghost Trick) being a huge exception to the idea that context sensitivity is always good, before diving into the rest of the video. but people itt will still say "doesn't he get that different games have different goals?" like >>741438756 yeah no shit dude
>>741439016May she rest in piece
>>741440640>did anyone really think there was a 1:1 correlation between sacrificed save data and players helped in Nier Automata?Yes. Plenty of casual players do. > I really don't understand what the impetus is for this whole argumentThat should have been made more clear. Clearly there is some sort of gameplay lie that triggered him, but it couldn't possibly have been coyote time, since it's so inoffensive.
>>741429147What he says makes sense but like in the past few videos there's no real point to any of this, he's going on q complicated roundabout way to say shit like yeah trees are mechanically useless but they help with world building Yeah no shit? No need to spend 10 minutes telling me thatWhat's next, the world is a machine and dude we're like cogs in it weed tier philosophy?
>>741429728then after zelda i'm gonna play a weirder zelda
>>741440681I estimate Matt has an IQ of 130. He's far above average.
>>741429197A trailblazer who back when video essays lasted only 20 min decided 6 hours was the correct lenght of a video.
>>741440939>the world is a machine and dude we're like cogs in it weed tier philosophy?That's what Mega Microvideos or whatever was.
>>741440681He was a bit of a trailblazer when his channel first started but the essay "genre" is so saturated at this point and he makes so few videos that are so weak that I have to wonder why he still has a fanbase. Hell he still has a fucking monthly patreon running even though his previous last real video came out 3 years ago.
Couldn't the coyote time problem be solved by simply having some sort of visual indication for when it's possible? Then it could no longer be considered aesthetic deception.
>>741440795>damn what a shit job you don't even have spam bot activeback in the good old days anons manually posted cheese pizza to derail threads, while you are just describing general-baker behaviouri know which side deserves more respect
>>741440509>>>/vt/ranny
>>741439446Why are you assuming that clip is Matthew trying his absolute hardest to beat the fight and not merely a clip showing the limitations of lock on, which was the topic he was discussing at the time of that clip? Do you know what a “video essay” is? He didn’t even get hit so he’s objectively not failing by the games’ standard.
>>741441064see>>741440145
>>741440196Why is it bad that the game lies to you? Especially when the effect is good enough to fool players
>>741429728
>>741440640I didn't think nier's save data help thing was 1:1 until the text pop upd that said anon's data is deleted when I took hits, and I took a lot of hits, and started to think wait that can't be rightactually if it didn't give you the text prompt it would've worked better. it's not what the video is about but nier automata's problem was it was too heavyhanded with its storytelling and would've benefited from playing things a little more subtle
>butthurt brown /vt/roon e-whore simp is spamming the thread
>>741441052The problem is that coyote time is so quick you'll never that animation. That's why coyote time exists in the first place.
>>741436386>>741436451Goombas are aesthetic deception. Goombas are not real. Goombas do not think like we do. Goombas are not conscious like we are. Goombas do not suffer. This is poor game design.
>>741440410>multi-enemy fights don't work well with how the lock-on works Not only is that not a flaw, as you should play unlocked when it's best suited, something you should especially know if you've already played DeS and DaS1 like matthew did, but Dark Souls 2 even added the ability to sprint around while locked on (see >>741439446 ) along with multi directional rolling>how the angle of the camera locked on to either enemy hides the other,You don't need to keep both enemies on the screen anon. This would be like claiming that Tower Knight is a bad boss while showing footage of me awkwardly trying to keep all the crossbowmen on screenThe challenge in that boss is keeping moving while you fight the melee Dragonrider. As you can literally see in matthew's own footage, the arrows track poorly, they don't track you till the last second and force you to roll or anything. You can avoid them by just strafing. Then there's also the fact that the Dragonrider archer fires at the same slow interval, the bow's sound cue, which is very much audible. But EVEN if you wanna argue you couldn't hear it, it doesn't matter again due to the arrow's poor trackingBrother, you'd have to be the biggest matthew drone on earth to defend this part of the critique, even if you agree with the video. There is absolutely NOTHING unfair or badly made about the Twin Dragonriders boss
>>741441129see >>741436248 and >>741437353it cheapens the experience usually
>>741441184Maybe. There's probably some way you could implement it that would make sense.
>>741441129>Why is it bad that the game lies to you?Because lying is a sin. It feels like shit when people lie to you.
>>741440938>Clearly there is some sort of gameplay lie that triggered him, but it couldn't possibly have been coyote time, since it's so inoffensive.It's the Death Stranding stuff. He likes Kojima in general but he hates what he's doing with Death Stranding and has to couch it all in deep mechanical analysis because to do anything less gets written off as not understanding it>hates the manual camera control and on-screen instructions for balance>hates the facial capture and people pretending it's good enough to carry scenes>hates the pretention of creating "strand type" games when everything it does is pure aesthetic deception
>>741441056>spam botYou don't even need a bot, dude.>i know which side deserves more respectlol, you're the one dumping aren't you
A lot of people don't seem to get that art isn't about how you feel in the moment.
>anons are still sperging about Dark Souls 2Jesus Christ, move on already.
>>741440789Wildlife despawning after half a minute of chasing them is not intuitive, no. Limitations are not an excuse in this context because all "aesthetic deceptions" are a result of technological limitations in some way. The developers simply could have not implemented that system or found some workaround that was more elegant. As-is it's lazy and unsatisfying.And that's just one example.
>>741440502See>>741441210You absolutely can hear it, but even if you wanna claim that you can't, nothing about the boss is unfair as I've already arguedStop gargling on matthew's balls dude
>>741437772I was more confused about why it looked so good, did RDR1 get a remaster?
>>741440918I agree with his overall point of minimizing visual and functional dissonance (within reason). But I would expect coyote time to be the sort of thing that he mentions as an exception instead of something brought up repeatedly as a bad example. Coyote time is unambiguously better for the player and I'm unconvinced by his thesis that its existence will lead to frustration from players because of the inconsistency between games. Again, rules of the world between games are already inconsistent even with something as basic as gravity. I'm not going to get frustrated at a Sonic game because it doesn't play like a Mario game
>>741439879He's a major Japanophile that annoys me to a large extent because I love his videos and have been a fan of his work since 2017
>>741441396maybe he emulated it
>>741441129because your decisions carry more weight when there legitimately different outcomes to them.not every game needs epic decision branches btw; it's lying about it that feels dishonest. it's like how jump scares in horror are the easy way out
>he had to go to his /pol/ foldersad
>>741441414This was the major pitfall of the video. Making coyote time the central negative example of the video was idiotic.
>>741440406We had regular threads about fucking Dunkey you retarded newfag. Have you ever bothered to check the archives before talking shit?
>>741441242It doesnt if you dont have severe autism. You should be able to appreciate a game without dissecting it to figure out it was actually somehow bad.
>>741440918>context sensitivity is always goodoops, meant *context insensitivity is always good
>>741441391>"You can hear the audio cues, so it is fair, actually!!!">"Even if you can't hear them, nothing about it is unfair!!!"You should seek immediate psychological care for your profound mental retardation.
>>741441414Being good for the player doesn't make it good design.
Is coyote time even that prevalent in platformers?
>>741441552based slop enjoyer. most WRPGs from the past decade and a half are made with you in mind
>>741441340>he says regarding the medium defined by physical interfacing and user interactionO wise Vaguepost King, deign you to tell us what art is about then?
>>741436463After seeing hitbox autism play out in multiversus I'd rather devs just do what makes sense inb4 >multiversusBut the tldr version of that situation is that the hitboxes were stupidly large at first and then they devs were like 'ok faggots we'll make them really accurate' and then the game felt like shit because some of them were too accurate relative to stuff like other character models, especially small/fast characters pic related is one of the egregious ones since the bat could miss but you'd still get hit by bugs bunny's fucking stomach for some reason
>>741441609I love coyote time.
>>741441210See, now you're just demonstrating that you didn't understand Demon's Souls just like you didn't understand Matt's video, the entire design of Tower Knights fight is that BECAUSE you can't keep the crossbowmen on screen while fighting the knight you are incentivized to take out the crossbowmen first. This is a fundamental difference in design between the two games and further evidence of how Dark Souls 2 is the series in decline>Demon's Souls: I cannot see all the threats at once -> I should split them up and take them out separately>Dark Souls 2: I cannot see all the threats at once -> lmao just dodge betterer
>>741441675>and then the game felt like shit because some of them were too accurate relative to stuff like other character models, especially small/fast charactersMultiversus felt like shit because the basic movement and physics felt like shit. It's genuinely amazing how not a single Smash clone can get just running around right.
>>741441646A game like the last two dragon ages is never good though. It does matter that the illusion works the first time
>>741441567There is nothing contradictory about that. The are multiple factors that make the Dragonrider's arrows completely predictable and fair, yes. The consistent firing interval, the sound cue, and especially that fact that they track poorly. Even if you wanna claim the audio cue isn't audible, that still makes the arrows easily avoidable through the other means and not unfair. I know this is hard stuff to comprehend for your subhuman 85 IQ matthewdrone pea brain
>>741430742VGMatthew is pretty good but he hasn’t uploaded in a few years
>>741441607The core idea of the video is that minimizing aesthetic and mechanic inconsistency is good design because it's good for the player btw
He comes off as too absolutist about aesthetic deception. Weirdly enough he nuances his take the most in the description of the video rather than the video itself, which I think is the biggest shortcoming of his essay.At the end of the day I agree with the design concept he's isolating, I agree with how he is defining it, but disagree with the generalization that by default, aesthetic deception is bad or something to avoid.A more nuanced and accurate take would be that by default, aesthetic deception will ALWAYS be a compromise and trade off. A gamble. And from then, the real question becomes :>is the trade off worth itBasically, aesthetic deception is using sensory signals to lie to the player or give information that isn't consistent with mechanics. Okay. At its worse if it's a shitty deception that instantly fails upon the slightest scrutiny, whilst not even achieving much in itself, then it's a shitty design decision. It muddles the mechanics and breaks suspension of disbelief.But at its best, if that lie is robust enough, resists scrutiny, and achieves artistic intention, then by all means it's an excellent design choice to apply.Basically, think of it as a tool. When using aesthetic deception, the question should be "what am I achieving by being dishonest to the player, and is my lie robust enough to not instantly crack under scrutiny". Depending on the answer, it then becomes a good or bad design decision.I would say that, with this nuance in mind, among his different examples, Nier and the coyotte jumps are good usecase of aesthetic deception.Whilst the Uncharted and Doom examples, bad cases.Lastly, he also underestimates the importance of what he calls "neutral signals" that is to say, aesthetics that isn't direct dishonest but doesn't necessarily correlate to mechanics either. Again at worse it parasites our processing of information, but at best it leads to pure poetry and emotion without necessarily impending aesthetic honesty.
>>741441769can you post more hips and less /pol/ shit? Thanks
>>741439662he can actually get a woman unlike you faggot
>>741441671not him but I agree with that anon."art isn't about what you feel in the moment" because then by that logic the best horror movie is the one that had the most jump scares because it made me feel the most in those moments, I don't need to zoom out and examine anything else
>>741441676post more hips anon
>>741441857Maybe in the next eceleb thread.
>>741441761that's also true, it was funny when they took the game offline to upgrade to UE5 only for pretty much everything to get worse, and the more they patched the game the worse it got until it diedone of my biggest complaints about that game is that for a platform fighter the platforming was really subpar
>>741441801>"There's nothing contradictory about my contradictory statements. You are the low IQ one!"
>>741441414His hatred of coyote time feels like one of those critic mental traps where he's too in love with his own theories and idea of right and wrong that he can't compromise on them. Coyote time obviously exists for a reason, just because something seems like a good or bad idea on paper doesn't mean it is in practice
>>741441913
>>741432937Except that wasn't what it was about. It was about visual noise and inconsistency in visual information in regards to a game's supposed rules.
>>741439998>best horse in gaming>scavenger hunt for shackles to bypass phases for two bosses>secret item that lets you bypass mohg's AOE>secret ending locked behind a secret level of a secret level>radahn raidboss fight >rennala being a good version of maiden astraea>half the DLC is hidden behind a secret wall>multiple villain factions for the player to join
jeff girthmann is playing mario 3 on twitch
>>741441837His opinion has nothing to do with mine and that has nothing to do with what I said anyway.
>>741441761>because the basic movement and physics felt like shitThisEvery wannabe Smash is either stiff and janky (NASB) or slippery and everyone feels heavy (that not-Melee made by Smash modders)
If I were to make a platformer, should I remove coyote time then? A little nudge in the player's favor, (a white lie if you will) improves the experience of most people.Is leaving link at 1/4 heart when he should have died a bad mechanic?
>>741441504>DunkeyLiterally who?
>goombas aren't real
>>741441839good post, video games will always have some degree of deception going on, its ultimately an illusory and emotional medium. It's good to try and make the gameplay as honest as possible, but there's obviously limits to how far you can take this
>>741429147Automata ends with a meta bullet hell? No wonder the fellating.
>>741441720See, now you're just demonstrating that you didn't understand Dark Souls 2 in your blind worship of matt's critique. You're not supposed to awkwardly try to keep both enemies on screen all the time >>Dark Souls 2: I cannot see all the threats at once -> lmao just dodge bettererYou don't need to see the Dragonrider that sits on a static position and fires at a consistent interval. You certainly aren't forced to dodge roll the arrows when they have extremely forgiving tracking and they are easily avoided by leisurely moving, as matthew's own clip showsYour mind would be blown if you played Demon's Souls and realized that during the Maneaters fight, you can be fighting one Maneater in melee on a narrow platform while the other shoots high damage magic projectiles from offscreen. And that's an encounter ten times harder than Twin Dragonriders.I could make an argument like you're doing for so many other ecounters in DeS and DaS1 and keep you arguing for hours
>>741441378>Wildlife despawning after half a minute of chasing them is not intuitive, no.I agree (I also agree with your overall point that there are better ways they could have handled despawning wildlife), but I still don't think it falls under the category of aesthetic deception as it's defined in the video. The whole point isn't about intuition or contributing towards immersion, it's about the game world not giving off the impression that you can do something you can't or that something is happening when it's not. Essentially it's about the information you present to the player visually, auditorially, systems-wise, etc. reflects what is actually going on under the hood. Wildlife phasing out of existence like that feels like an uncertain edge-case, at best.
>>741442176Coyote time is fine as long as it doesn't feel/look egregious. Hits always leaving you at 1 HP is fine as long it's a consistent mechanic.
>>741441948There is nothing contradictory about that. There are multiple factors that make the Dragonrider's arrows completely predictable and fair, yes. The consistent firing interval, the sound cue, and especially that fact that they track poorly. Even if you wanna claim the audio cue isn't audible, that still makes the arrows easily avoidable through the other means and not unfair. I know this is hard stuff to comprehend for your subhuman 85 IQ matthewdrone pea brain
>>741441880You are welcome to describe what art is as well. After which point I will bring up how the immediate visceral experience is most certainly part of that definition. It ain't the only aspect, but if you are trying to rationalize away your own feelings in the name of some grand unified design, then I care nothing about your opinions.Or I could go the asinine definition-stretching way and claim the Deltarune is the greatest art piece of all by the simple fact how much mindspace it occupies in the mind of speculative fanboys "zooming out" and "examining" every detail.
>>741442362>"I'll look smart if I copy and paste my post to own my opponent"
>>741441839He doesnt adequatly explain why lying to the playir is bad. His point about coyote time makes sense but that doesnt generalise because not every case of aesthetic deception is an industry trend.
>>741436736this is why i disagree with the take that games are art, most games have far more of a "participation" aspect than movies/music/paintings, so retards like you think you just gloss over any criticism that isn't about plot or characters or visuals
>>741442428There are multiple factors that make the Dragonrider's arrows completely predictable and fair, yes. The consistent firing interval, the sound cue, and especially that fact that they track poorly. Even if you wanna claim the audio cue isn't audible, that still makes the arrows easily avoidable through the other means and not unfair. I know this is hard stuff to comprehend for your subhuman 85 IQ matthewdrone pea brain
>>741441720One's challenge is running around to kill the adds, the other is dealing with a medium difficulty threat with a ranged enemy increasing the challenge. DS2's version is far more complex and interesting.
>>741442176The only thing that matters is that it feels nice.Which is why people still play SMB, but not Nazo no Atlantis in these days.
>>741442176It ultimately depends on the type of platformer you're making. A precision platformer without it would feel like shit.
>>741441839To add to that and quote Haneke "Film is 24 lies per second at the service of truth, or at the service of the attempt to find the truth." I personally think of all art to reflect this statement to some degree. You can argue that, philosophically, morally and even artistically, truth is good, beautiful and important. That deception and dishonesty is bad and ugly. But when it comes to art, if a lie is made in service of truth - if it was done not out of cheapness, but with genuine intent to support an artistic truth, then it can transcend its deceptive nature. It's the idea of a fake becoming even more genuine than the original.Mind you, this is coming from someone who is for radical honesty in his relationships - but when it comes to art I think that truth goes beyond simply being coherent and consistent. It's about touching the heart and the soul, regardless of the technical limitations and tricks one had to resort to.
>>741442507There are multiple factors that make the Dragonrider's arrows completely predictable and fair, yes. The consistent firing interval, the sound cue, and especially that fact that they track poorly. Even if you wanna claim the audio cue isn't audible, that still makes the arrows easily avoidable through the other means and not unfair. I know this is hard stuff to comprehend for your subhuman 85 IQ matthewdrone pea brain
>>741442489Does it make sense? His thesis is that coyote time is bad because it makes ledge behavior between games inconsistent which will confuse and frustrate players. Is there a noticeable uptick in players being confused by coyote time as a mechanic?
Is input buffering also aesthetic deception? Should all action games get rid of it?
Thanks for keeping the 2 Mega64 threads alive, BTW.
>>741441839Good post, though players tend to be more forgiving about aesthetic deception if it benefits them, like you can see in this very thread about coyote time and living hits at 1 hp.
>>741442176It seems like Matthew's ideal video game is a wireframe that perfectly represents the game's state
>>741442726It has nothing to do with aesthetics.
>>741442272Maneaters projectiles are telegraphed by going into the air, and the terrain of the fight means you can position yourself in such a way that projectiles dissipate by colliding with the terrain. Trying to compare the dogshit that is DS2 to DeS is not going to work in your favor.
>>741442581There are different levels of "lies". When watching a movie you're expecting a work of fiction. The evens not being true to life are expected. If there's a note on screen that says "the following events are true" when they're not, then it's an unexpected lie that should be punished.
>>741442719The average person isn't even aware that the Donkey Kong series has coyote time.
>>741442490Picking apart a game so you can disagree with its message is why games will never be art to you. Do you really believe the game intended for you to see through the fakery in the ending? That that is somehow the real message?
>>741442842Both coyote time and 1 HP survival are consistent mechanics. There's nothing wrong with them.
>having a melty because someone who criticized DS2 over 10 years ago made a new videolol
>>741442272Nigger, you're the one who picked Tower Knight as an example. You thought the fights were comparable. You could have picked Maneaters, but you didn't, because to you there's no difference between a fight clearly designed around defeat in detail and a fight lazily designed around waiting for recovery windows to overlap.
>>741442376we shouldn't swing between extremes.the anon you first responded to is talking of people who primarily evaulate art by *only* measuring the greatest delta of how it made them feel. and you're talking about lorefags and culturalzeitgeistcels and hyper autistic detail examiners, which isn't a measure for good art either.I agree that the visceral experience matters a lot, over time I've come to appreciate things that can really make me feel more because that's rare. but I do have reservations about works that try to elicit a response through cheap tricks
>>741440019There are 3 troons in a discord I'm in and this describes all of them perfectly wtf
>>741442971no you're mistaking my whole point. the point isn't even that the lie is bad or that the game would be better without it, it's just an example of the kind of lie matt is talking about. but if retard fanboys like you catch someone making any observation they perceive to be criticism, then they hide behind the "hur dur my favorite game is actually art and you're low iq if you didn't like it" argument
>>741441839I like matthewmatosis' stuff, but this is an excellent postmade sifting through this whole thread worth it
>>741442989What do you mean by consistent? Coyote time goes against the logic that "you cannot jump in midair" and 1 HP survival goes against the logic that "hits will do the same amount of damage". Sure, they might activate consistently, but they go against the game's established rules.
>>741443298No, they go against real-life rules. Video games follow video game rules. If all hits are stopped at 1 HP, that's an established game rule.
>>741442913>>741442913>Maneaters projectiles are telegraphed by going into the airThe Maneater being in the air isn't a telegraph, especially when their movement is so fast and erratic. You can't know if they're gonna fly away and then back and repeat, if they're gonna hover in the air, if they're gonna land. All of this while you're taking care of the other Maneater>fight means you can position yourself in such a way that projectiles dissipate by colliding with the terrainTo do that would have to keep and eye on the Maneater that is flying while losing sight of the Meaneater in melee range. You would also have to already be behind cover, as the flying Maneater can attack you from any angle, meaning this isn't a good defense of this mechanic. Oh and the tracking on the meaneaters magic is MUCH better than the Dragonrider's, to the point where you often HAVE to roll it even if you couldn't see it coming>Trying to compare the dogshit that is DS2 to DeS is not going to work in your favor.I like both games. In no world are the arrows from the Dragonrider boss harder or more unfair than anything in the Maneaters fight. You are completely blinded by matthew fanboyism and are unable to see straight
>>741443072You haven't provided a single counter argument anon. Calling something ''lazy designed'' with no elaboration is not an argument
If you want an example of inconsistent rules: see Deltarune's combat. The defense/attack/HP stats are incomprehensible because there's so many invisible scripting and scaling effects.
>>741431684Incredibly accurate prediction.
>>741443298>What do you mean by consistent>Sure, they might activate consistentlyI mean
>>741443085Sure seems like there is a lot of assumption about what "that anon" meant or how "some people" judge media. But I've nothing to argue about with you, so let's consider this an autistic armistice.
>>741442719Yeah I was being a little generous you are right. Platformers are generally played by such a casual audience that most arent even aware of coyote time. I could see someone who plays a lot of them get frustrated by constantly having to relearn it though.
>>741443298getting reduced to a 1 HP state and needing an extra hit to die even if damage surpassed your remaining HP isn't aesthetic deception.there is no visual fuzziness involved, what you see and are told is what you get.coyote time is more fuzzy because it's never explicit how much leeway you have. yes you might have like, 5 extra pixels to jump no matter the platform consistently, but this isn't visually obvious. you'd have to memorize the amount to know.
>>741442227
>>741443061>having a melty because people debunked your favorite e-celeb's crappy videolol
>>741443534I have never gotten a game over in deltarune and beat every fight on the first go but I also pretty much never know what's happening or what I'm doing when picking shit in the menus
>>741443298>Coyote time goes against the logic that "you cannot jump in midair"Your mistake is thinking that's the logic and coyote time is breaking it when actuality the logic is "you cannot jump in midair unless you've just walked off of a ledge." There's nothing inconsistent about that. A game with coyote time will always follow this logic.
>>741443639
>>741441839>disagree with the generalization that by default, aesthetic deception is bad or something to avoid.>A more nuanced and accurate take would be that by default, aesthetic deception will ALWAYS be a compromise and trade off."Aesthetic deception is not often purely negative, but it is ALWAYS a tradeoff." - direct quote from the end of the video
>>741441839yeah i agree with this. i kept waiting for him to make a similar point when he was talking about the Nier Automata ending but felt like he didn't make a judgement call either way about that one specifically, but his conclusion for the whole video kind of made it sound like he thought any aesthetic deception was a bad thing.the coyote jump argument especially seemed a bit too autistic for me. in a lot of games that have it, it's barely perceptible to a normal player. it's usually there to give you leeway on jumping off an edge so that it's less punishing to cross a tight gap, very rarely is it mechanic so generous that you're intended to actively use it as a required mechanic. movement in different platformers already feels incredibly different game to game (sometimes even in the same series), so the idea that someone is going to get so used to relying on coyote jumps in one game that they'll get fucked up when they play a game without them is just an absurd argument. not that it's impossible for that situation to happen, maybe it's common with like speedrunners who are going to grind a game for 100s of hours and need to know every detail of every mechanic, but it's absolutely not a case that is ubiquitous enough that it should factor into a dev's decision on whether to add coyote jumping
>>741439440The case of Ending E isn't entirely dishonest though. The other ship names actually are players who registered their name and message. And the game really does delete your save file.In fact, the false message of players being deleted when hit isn't strictly necessary to the experience anyways. The main reason that they included it was probably to hide the fact that you're invincible during the last part of the fight. They didn't want players to actually be able to fail it, but having the deleted message at least creates the illusion that there's actual consequences to getting hit. At least for as long as the one minute the sequence lasts, so players actually engage in the shooting gameplay rather than just facetanking through everything.
>>741441839i'm pretty sure he came to the same conclusion in his video but barely emphasized it, so it's easy to watch this video of him pointing out deception in games and think the thesis is that this is a bad thing that needs to stop
>>7414436131 HP survival is usually implemented in a fuzzy way though. For example, I've cases where you would live if the hit would barely kill you but not if it overkills you by a lot. By your definition, it would be deceptive, correct?
>>741443254Matts point is that its bad, he says its always a trade off. Something inherently negative that is only made up by being exceptional. I dont disagree with you that its an example of aesthetic deception
irish people shouldn't be allowed on the internet
>>741440406>ppllleeEEASSSEE be more like meeee!!no
>>741443784Fair, it's just that even then his nuance implies the trade-off is rarely worth it, mine implies it entirely depends on the case.>not often purely negativeI argue that it is sometimes almost purely positive. I'm not saying I disagree with him, just that I disagree with the structure of his essay in that I feel he spent too much time showcasing the negatives of aesthetic deception whilst not going over the positives.
>>741443987t. indian ds2 fan
>>741443939if it isn't reasonably apparent then yeah it's fuzzy
>>741441839>NierI generally agree with you except for nier's ending. Even if you're deceived in the moment, knowing that the mechanic is fake makes the game's experience retroactively worse.
>>741444059funny you should say that. if this guy had a putt-putt-ding-ding-good-morning-saaar accent he'd be nothing, a literal zero and nobody at all would agree with him lol. hes literally popular just because he's irish
>>741444154I wouldn't care to listen to what an indian has to say about anything desu
>>741443409> The Maneater being in the air isn't a telegraphIt literally is as it signals the possibility of such an event occurring which the player can choose to act accordingly.> To do that would have to keep and eye on the Maneater that is flying while losing sight of the Meaneater in melee rangeNot true as the projectiles get stuffed on the sides of the platform so you can merely retreat to a corridor.> I like both gamesI know you have shit taste, yes.
>>741429147A friend of mine describes his videos as a psychiatrist gaming seasons
>600 replies
>>741443942speedwatcher see >>741443784
>>741429147is there any recommendable literature on design theory that break something down this well?
>>741444524>>>/vt/ranny
>>741443606>>741442719>I could see someone who plays a lot of them get frustrated by constantly having to relearn it though.>Does it make sense? His thesis is that coyote time is bad because it makes ledge behavior between games inconsistent which will confuse and frustrate players. Is there a noticeable uptick in players being confused by coyote time as a mechanic?I think the "inconsistency" argument doesn't hold up. As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, every time you play a new game you have to relearn mechanics. (e.g. You wouldn't expect every character in a platformer to jump the exact same way as in other platformers). Why does Matthew have double standards for jumping and coyote time?
>>741444359Except the magic attack doesn't necessarily follow from them being in the air. Like I said the Maneater can keep flying around back and forth, or hover for a while, or land>Not true as the projectiles get stuffed on the sides of the platform so you can merely retreat to a corridor.That would imply you're lucky enough to be on the right side of the platform, or that you took the camera off the melee Maneater in front of you to look for the airborne one>I know you have shit taste, yes.Having shit taste is parroting matthew's shitty debunked argument about a perfectly fair boss 12 years after release
>>741444141To be more accurate on why I think Nier is a good usecase - since I was limited on characters for my post - it's not that seeing through the deception has little consequences, it does make things worse I agree.It's more-so that the dramatic and emotional payoff of the deception is massive which makes it a good gamble to take. That lie can lead to some very strong emotions for the player, which might not have been as possible to achieve on such a wide-scale had the devs been purely honest with the mechanics. On top of that, it's a rather robust lie in the sense that it happens at a very specific time. After a huge emotional build-up, cathartic moment, where I feel the player would be most likely to suspend his disbelief or simply not bother scrutinizing the lie.Compare it to the aesthetic deception of death stranding, where simply reloading during a routine session reveals the cracks in the lie. It's not so much that it's a lie that resists scrutiniy, but rather that it was told at the perfect time to not undergo any scrutiny from players. In that sense I think it's a good usecase, I think most players kept their suspension of disbelief intact throughout and enjoyed a emotional payoff from that lie. You can still disagree ofcourse but wanted to explain why I considered it a good case in more detail.
>>741441839The Uncharted example isn't a bad case. The game would not be significantly enhanced if Drake was able to fall off the ledge in that section. If it were possible to fall off there, the entire game's movement system would have to be designed around navigating tight platforms in a manner that feels good, and the game would need to design maps where you can fall off every ledge and still make your way back up somehow. Or you just show a game over screen if you slip off the ledge, but that's not particular enjoyable either. Trying to eliminate aesthetic deception here would be a waste of developer resources for an aspect of the game that is completely unimportant to them. It was a deliberate design decision to limit Drake's movement on ledges, as it was a trade-off that was worth it to the developers.Similarly with Doom and the collision boxes not being a 1:1 mapping of the models, this is done for technical reasons since having super detailed collision boxes would put a completely unecessary strain on computational resources. Using simple collision boxes is not be 100% accurate and there are going to be edge cases where the player notices the difference, but again it's a conscious design decision that is made to increase the graphical fidelity of the game while still being unnoticeable 99% of the time.
