will the upcoming zelda ocarina of time remake allow you to complete the temples in any order?
>>741514096Most definitely, there's no reason to make the game linear anymore with the Switch 2 hardware. The Zelda developers have figured out the science behind making good puzzles without lock and key dungeons.
>>741514519>The Zelda developers have figured out the science behind making good puzzleslmao. totk has the worst ""puzzles" in the entire series.
>>741514519So remove what makes a zelda game a zelda game in favor of open world slop?
>>741514096The adult dungeons should allow you to complete them in different orders, and they should make the Ice Cavern a full fledged dungeon.
>>741514591negatory
>>741514621lock and key is an outdated paradigm, Zelda has outgrown it
>>741514096if it does it isnt oot>>741515376>linear game is le bad because...it just is ok???
>>741514096hopefully not
>>741514096Forest, Fire, Water, then Spirit OR Shadow. I'll accept nothing else. (Suggested order is Shadow first, but there's nothing stopping you from doing Spirit at that point)
>>741514096Better yet, restore the medallions as usable items after you beat each dungeon and make the Light Dungeon playable as either a Adult Link tutorial a final trial dungeon with a Shiek boss fight.
>>741516223The Temple of Light is where the Sacred Realm cutscenes with the sages take place
I really don't get why they had the Spirit/Shadow medallion out of order to how the game progressed (based on the Navi hints and flow of events).Man, the more I think about it, the more I worry how bare minimum this "remake" is gonna be.
>>741514096Hopefully not. I want at least some enforced order to make the BotW absolutists sweat.
>>741514096You need the Lens of Truth to see the poe to cross the wasteland. The Lens of Truth is in the well which is directly tied to the Shadow Temple. Then they put the spirit medallion before the shadow medallion in the menu and the thought lives rent free in my head still.
>>741514096DoA if true.
>>741516189>Suggested order is Shadow first>Shadow medallion and song appear after spirit in the UIwhat did they mean by this?
>>741514096ALTTP and ALBW have the perfect formula for this.
>>741516395Only the center of it, not the whole temple.
>>741514096It will probably be the same game, for the most part. Like the Star Fox remake.
>>741514519100 mini ball puzzles are not good dungeons anon. But dungeons are hard to make and requires more effort, which is why they are never coming back. Lowest effort for greatest returns, that's nuZelda. They will also include korok seed hunts and other meaningless collect-a-thon padding. Grim. It's coming out in a few months but we got no gameplay? That's cause they're going the FF7 route and don't want backlash. They don't want a repeat of the backlash Metroid Prime 4 got for shoving BOTW elements in. They'll be radio silent until a month before release.
>>741517561this board will meltdown when this is revealed as it will deprive them of troll material
>>741516987OoT had rushed development toward the end. A lot of shit got changed around less than a year before the game shipped.
>>741515376>lock and keyThe whole point of those decisions was to incentivize exploration, not to write a linear story. Ever since OoT you're told to do any of the (first) 3 temples in any order, for the rest you're allowed to explore any of them until you figure out an obstacle is impassable.
>>741517627Generalizing makes for bad critique.
>>741517561I really can't imagine it working out any other way. It wouldn't be Ocarina of Time if it was nu-game open-world slop with weapon degradation and the same fetch quests over and over again.
>>741517730>Ever since OoT you're told to do any of the (first) 3 temples in any order,you did temple of gods before dragon roost in wind waker?
>>741517730and before Oot you're told to do any of the 8 dungeons in any order, then you were forced to do them in linear progression for the dark age of the series, we're free of that once more.
When they remastered the prime games the main thing they did was remove all of the sequence breaks what makes you thing OoT remaster won't do the same?
>>741517780Exactly. Plus, there is a very real risk of potentially making something shitty and ruining the OOT brand.
I see them doing a Link to the Past>map is marked with numbered dungeons>have fun!
>>741517627>100 mini ball puzzles are not good dungeons anon. But dungeons are hard to make and requires more effort, which is why they are never coming backUh yeah because it took so much effort to make the critically acclaimed 100 block pushing puzzle dungeons of the old games.
>>7415198533D Zelda dungeon design hasn't been surpassed since Majora's Mask.
>>741519853Unironically yes. Even a basic Sokoban takes more effort to design than the typical "Freeform" BOTK shrine puzzle.
>>741520683Skyward Sword has three of the best dungeons in the franchise, tard.
Sure man, whatever. As long as they are not equal difficulty. How about doing something cool instead though? Anything really.
I'd prefer if they did Master Quest 2 instead of straight up copying the same game 3 times.
>>741514096The past two big Zelda games have chased nonlinearity to their own detriment, I highly doubt they're remaking Ocarina of Time just to chase nonlinearity for that game too. For that matter I highly doubt they're remaking Ocarina of Time for any reason other than learning how to make more linearly structured Zelda games again, because the last two were Link's Awakening's remake and Skyward Sword's remake.The obsession with nonlinearity in games that have always benefited from having an at least implied linear structure should be studied, really.
>>741517071>Let's make every dungeon piss easy.No.
>>741523254also leaving dungeons somewhat rewardless as a direct consequence of their items already being available in a rental system
>>741514096i really hope not. it heavily impacts dungeon design and makes the game much worse.
>>741523053>the things those game excelled at?>lol uhhh it was actually badyou nigs dont even try anymore
>>741523954Who the fuck plays LTTP, OoT, MM, WW, TP, SS, LA, OoA/S, MC, PH, or ST for their nonlinearity?
>>741517780it would be a new game, that's what i want. i want this to be the next zelda game. otherwise i can just play ship of harkonnen.
>>741524147It's been outsourced to a western studio. It's not a high-priority project for Nintendo, so I doubt you're getting the next BotW/TotK-slop game with this.
>>741524240then im going to fucking kill myself!!!
When did linear = bad? Is it just a change in times?
>>741524594>When did linear = bad?When the open world meme took over
>>741524594Linear has always been subpar, how the fuck do you not know this.
>>741525079Movies and books must really drive you insane.
>>741514719who's the ice sage?
>>741524594>end of 1990s>SIDESCROLLER BAD, FREE 3D MOVEMENT GOOD>2020s>LINEAR BAD, OPEN WORLD GOODSame thing really, just on another meta level.
>>741525079no?
only now playing it blind and i feel like i got gaslit for decades with all the stupid discourse around itthis game has the most mentally ill fandom of any game i've ever seen, it's no small feat
it's really incredible how many people i'm seeing on /v/ just now playing this game for the first time. i'm floored.
>>741514096It would probably make the game worse. The current Temple order flexibility is already perfect. Pic related.They should still remove the boulders from Zora River.
>>741525132No coincidence if you ask someone for a good sidescroller they invariably suggest something ancient and claim it peaked there. Same thing really.
>>741526172Then what's to stop you from doing Jabu Jabu's Belly early?
>>741526172chart makes no sense in several places
>>741526238That would be an improvement, linearfag.
>>741526238>Then what's to stop you from doing Jabu Jabu's Belly early?Nothing. That's the point. Jabu Jabu's belly has no requirement for bombs or the bracelet, so it should be fine to do second. >>741526262Which bit doesn't make sense?
>>741524594Linear has always been bad you retarded newfag.The whole linear=good is a modern talking point made by ageing retards who don't have the patience to dedicate to playing a game and want everything to just fall in their lap. Press F to eat shit.
>>741525116If you could GO INTO the world of a movie or a book and experience it with your own actions would you instead choose to just watch it happen linearly with no input from you? Ofc not you sour grapes mind raped moron
>>741525116I've got several movies I love rewatching, noticing more details, and writing up thesis on the themes and such. To throw it back at you, how often do you go see new movies?
>>741526331It invents this notion that you could do things in different orders if you save and reset the console. It's fake.
>>741526676No it doesn't? What weird schizo shit are you talking about? The chart shows the vanilla, glitchless dungeon order, and which items gate which dungeon. The chart doesn't require you to leave mid dungeon or reset things.
>>741526985Your water temple is misplaced then, retard.
>>741526985chart doesn't demonstrate that boomerang is required to beat jabu
>>741526319How does>I can do thing earlymean>game is better
>>741529953It leaves out the Slingshot as well, which is odd because it's required for Dodongo's and Jabu Jabu's belly. Maybe bombchus can be substituted?>>741529674Not my chart, but it's still in the right spot. You don't need to restart your game to do the key skip in Water Temple.
>>741530325It's 2026 and you cannot grasp replayability, holy shit.
>>741530326It's just a bad chart.
>>741530841Nigga how the fuck does that affect replayability? Have you never watched a movie or read a book before, and then rewatched it or reread it down the line? It's still the same fucking story and it doesn't impact your enjoyment of it. I can play a game I've played before, and the same experience is still going to be as enjoyable as it was before. Otherwise, clearly the game isn't enjoyable in the first place and the only thing you're getting from it is the dopamine hit of getting X.
What if they used Master Quest as a base?
>>741531000Holy shit you're retarded.
>>741530894Yeah maybe. It's still the easiest way to get the point across though.
Maybe to some extent, but not to the extent where you only need the bow ever in the Forest Temple, for example.
>>741531245Thinking about it all wrong, the chemistry system is going to open up a lot of potential puzzles. The way you're thinking emphasizes why lock and key design sucks.
>>741532152>the chemistry system
>2026>not knowing the chemistry systemdeath to neo/v/irgins
>>741532152Nah, if you remove classic item/dungeon interaction complete you remove puzzle progression, which is what happened it BotW/TotK. Every puzzle needs to be designed as "babies first" because they have to account for it being the first post-Plateau/tutorial puzzle they do. The absolute worst thing they could do in the remake is go completely non-linear and then end any sense of progression in the dungeons. It would not fit the soul of OoT. The next worse thing they could do is go full linear though. I really don't trust them to get the balance right.
>>741532370I don't think there's any balance to really achieve there, it's only really open-ended after you go to the Forest Temple and even then Navi is pushing for you to go to the Fire Temple and Water Temple afterwards to echo the forest/fire/water progression already present as Young Link, then after that pushes you to go to the Shadow Temple and Spirit Temple. Zelda's design sensibilities aren't different from Metroid's in that the game is """exploration-based""" but still softwalls you at various points depending on your available equipment. A run of Super Metroid for a first-timer is not the same thing as a run of Super Metroid for somebody deliberately trying to sequence break, after all. Super Metroid does a very good job of gating you at power-progression until you have basically everything but the Power Bombs, Space Jump and Gravity Suit; people like to breathlessly argue about how nonlinear Super Metroid is or can be, then ignore that big vertical chasm full of Zoomers that exists to let you know that's a soft point-of-no-return and you should come back with the Ice Beam later to get back up.
>>741532370Yeah I have no idea what the remake is gonna be like. It’s worrisome to me cause there’s so many expectations building if it’s not just 1:1. Like for me, I can’t imagine a reinterpretation of OoT keeping the same overworld geography. Like the towns or trails between areas are so 1990s retro designed.It’s not like BotW towns that has homes/sleeping locations for every NPC. (I loved BotW’s towns so much cause it tickled the imagination I had for OoT as a kid with the towns). Too much going on this year. I need to chill lol.
>>741532370>if you remove classic item/dungeon interaction complete you remove puzzle progressionnot really, there's nothing stopping developers from tackling it another angle. you put easier puzzles closer to the start of the game, the player would need travel further to get to harder puzzles, and what makes them harder is just their design."puzzle progression" from your stand point is simply making use of more tools during a puzzle, which again needs to be stated need not be some dungeon item, needs not be unbreakable, ect. you want linearity, but objectively it's just an outdated paradigm, and the more you lean on it the more games will stagnate. Lets not ignore how stale the franchise was for two decades until Botw revolutionized things. emphasis on revolutionized, we deserve more innovation, not fucking less.
>>741524060>LTTP, OoTLike fuck tons of people>TP, SSNot even slightly non-linear
>>741533502It would absolutely be a disappointment if they don't tackle Oot from a design standpoint that takes into account all the innovation the series had since 1998.
>>741532237Chemistry engine is a better phrasing for it (I think that’s how it is). It’s basically how elements interact with each other that they did by logic driven rules instead of hard coding. It might not seem something special on the surface (like Wind Waker did water making platforms on lava before TotK) but it’s really cool how they built it.
>>741533204Sure, but there's a big difference between a guided pathway that opens up once you have game knowledge and strict linearity. In fact, that classic Zelda/Metroid formula is interesting because it is fun to work out just how much you can break open the sequence on subsequent playthroughs by understanding how your movement and upgrades interact with the world.>>741533502I think they're playing a very dangerous game remaking OoT, because whichever path the take they will receive criticism from one branch of the franchise. It would be nice to know more about what their design philosophy, wish they'd hurry up and do some interviews already.>>741533514>you want linearityI want a balance, which was the norm until the GC era.
>>741530326>>741530894>>741531214>>741529953It's a deliberately simplified chart that specifically omits everything except the base requirements for dungeons.It's designed to make reading it less confusing to idiots compared to the full chart.
I feel like it’s wrong to get hung up on if a Zelda is linear or non-linear, because now we’re splitting hairs. I think what I want to focus on is if it retains item based world progression. Because what I’ve always enjoyed was something like “oh I got bombs so now I can go back to this place and break the rock is saw in the first area”. That’s what I’ve always enjoyed and I don’t think they utilized it enough. The best experience is through randomizers lol.
>>741533846They should take the angle they already have for the Hyrule Historia where if part of the fanbase squeals they get summarily ignored
If you get all your powers at the beginning of OoT I'll throw a fucking fit.
>>741525124Just make it a prerequisite dungeon for the Water Temple like it already is but flesh it out more. No need to give it a medallion.
>>741533846>In fact, that classic Zelda/Metroid formula is interesting because it is fun to work out just how much you can break open the sequence on subsequent playthroughs by understanding how your movement and upgrades interact with the world.Difference being Zelda isn't really designed for repeat playthroughs and it's a consequence of it being a somewhat open-ended adventure game, while Metroid's had speedrun elements since the start and even then still has a guided progression path and leaves it up to the player to figure out how to cut time down, while it's also perfectly plausible to get a good or best time and not really deviate from the intended path all that much. I don't think these games should design themselves around sequence breakers on purpose.
>>741533846Metroidbraina is the future of Zelda.
>>741535000>Difference being Zelda isn't really designed for repeat playthroughs and it's a consequence of it being a somewhat open-ended adventure game,Intentional or not, LoZ, AoL, aLttP, and OoT all have strong elements of it and are better for it, while still retaining strong fundamentals like. This is what the franchise should be aiming for. I'm not saying they should have a clock and Link should strip at the end based upon your time. Leaning into those Metroid aspects can certainly make the game better.
>>741533963>“oh I got bombs so now I can go back to this place and break the rock is saw in the first area”.and you can evolve that with supply and variety. it can look more like>oh I ran out of bombs I guess I will mark it for later>oh now I have hammer, this will do, lets check those markers
>>741535198>>oh I ran out of bombs I guess I will mark it for later>>oh now I have hammer, this will do, lets check those markersThat already (sort of) exists in OoT, since you can smash boulders with the Hammer.
>>741533727It isn't anything special
However they do this game, I hope Hyrule is explorable as BoTW was. I'd like to go to Hyrule field and just explore. One thing I loved about Twilight Princess was when you went into the forest and it was huge compared to OoT.
>>741514096the temples aren't completely linear. they're broken up into two groups, and can be done in any order within their group.>first group: forest, fire, waterthe first three's only hard requirement is the hookshot, once you have it you can do them in any order. the intended path is of course forest-fire-water, but you can finish the fire temple before the forest and the water temple before both of them. it's a little more difficult doing those two without the bow but it is possible, I know cause I've done it.>second group: spirit and shadowthe last two temples require the first three being beaten as you need the bow and longshot for them, and the triggers for the well and shadow temple won't activate until you finish the fire temple. And again you can do them in any order, the hover boots do make the spirit temple a little easier but are not necessary.Personally, I like this structure, as it paints a nice narrative picture. Link travels to the future and sees the glaring issues of the forest he grew up in being overrun with monsters, death mountain looking like it's going to erupt at any moment, zora's domain frozen over and the lake dried up, and he sets out to settle those problems first. Once those are dealt with, the problems with the well, shadow & spirit temples arise, almost like a response to Link's efforts to mitigate the damage Ganon's rule has caused.Really, the only glaring issues I see with OoT's structure is the obviously rushed shadow temple, and how so much of the adult timeline ties back to kakariko village. The hookshot and the lens are both required items to complete the game and both are gotten in kakariko, along with the shadow temple being there. The lens and shadow temple being in kakariko makes sense since they're tied to the sheikah, but they could have moved the hookshot to somewhere else, say the gerudo valley, lake hylia, or even the forest.
>>741532152But anon, the chemistry system could easily exist in a game where you get items normally instead of one where you start with all of them.
>>741533514>"puzzle progression" from your stand point is simply making use of more tools during a puzzle,No, he's talking about the whole complex of Metroidvania-adjacent progression where you get new items to go new places to get new items to go new places etc. etc.Not specifically about having and using more items as the game goes on, if it's true rote "get new item in dungeon, use it in puzzles from now on" shit then yeah that's bad but that design has been a disappointing surprise every time Aonuma's dumb ass drops the ball, it's not the natural state of progression.
>>741535161We already have BOTW and TOTK as the logical summation of that open-endedness and it fucking sucks for the series' roots of room-by-room puzzle solving. There isn't any real way forward under the "total freedom" model that doesn't also tremendously scale back the freedom, which is probably why they're doing an OoT remake so they can refamiliarize themselves with how older games worked.Leaning into those Metroid aspects is more what I'm after, because Metroid wants you to speedrun rather than sequence-break. Total freedom sucks for cohesive game design and Metroid and older Zelda are smart to not offer it to the player.
>>741536335>Metroidvania-adjacent progressionanon, he says>if you remove classic item/dungeon interaction complete you remove puzzle progression>Every puzzle needs to be designed as "babies first"Maybe you shouldn't speak on other's behalf.
>>741536741Sure there is, the world as a puzzle box. Literally invert "room-by-room" and the world is the oyster. Linearfags think so very very small.
>>741537494They did that, it's called BOTW and TOTK. And as a consequence it lost its strengths of bespoke dungeons and tool-based puzzle solving, the latter much more in TOTK where building a jet solves 99.9% of puzzles.>LinearfagsSuck on a railroad spike, anon.
>>741537713>They did that, it's called BOTW and TOTK.They literally haven't done that, only think even approachable to the concept is still heavily heavily paired down by its linearity.
>>741537494It's hard for me to fathom how you or anyone else can think that the formula BotW/TotK settled on is the way forward for Zelda.The unrestricted (after the mandatory tutorial segment) open world is the only cool thing they did, but fell into the common open world trap of having little to do in it. Every dungeon was copy/pasted assets with the same puzzles dotted throughout. Every sidequest is a generic fetch quest for generic NPCs. It had a lot of potential to be the next big step for Zelda, like how Ocarina of Time was, but I was disappointed. But hey, nu-Zelda sold the mostest, so it must be great, right?
>>741537872After BotW I was hopefully they'd be able to iterate on the design and improve it. But TotK literally reused the map and still had insufficient content, with the content/space ration being too low, there still not being enough unique assets, and the game still having to heavily rely on shrines. I think the system is just fucked and they'll never have enough dev time/manpower relative to release schedule to put out decent games under the open air formula.
>>741537419I don't see how any of that contradicts what I said...?Do you think the "babies first" comment was referring to the old style of puzzles? Reading comprehension failure.
>>741537494>Literally invert "room-by-room" and the world is the oyster.So the whole world is one big puzzle. Cool! That starts with having a sequence to it. Thus, no longer open world.
>>741538134I think TotK was probably a victim of crunch time, considering all of the asset reuse. Honestly enough to make Majora's Mask look like something completely unique and divorced from Ocarina.Maybe it's not as big of a priority for them because Zelda isn't a huge series in Japan like it is elsewhere. I dunno, I've given the series a lot of chances, but to me, it's fairly plain to see the series has been on a decline since the Oracle games and we had a brief glimpse of something cool with BotW, but it again was squandered.
>>741538383>I think TotK was probably a victim of crunch timeTHEY HAD 6 YEARS. And it grew out of BotW DLC ideas, so they were working on it for ages.
>>741538383The 3D games have been teasing potential that they're barely able to realize more than like 10% of at a time for so long I've lost faith it can ever go beyond that.
>>741538431I almost don't believe that considering they turned out a game like Majora's Mask in 10 months more than 25 years ago. I get that games are more detailed and require large teams of people to work together, but there's no reason TotK should've taken 6 years to make given the result.
There shouldn't be adult/child dungeons as a concept. Both should be beatable as either. I should be able to escape the Kokiri Forest if I am quick enough.
>>741514096really just depends on how faithful of a remake it is world design wise. It'd be interesting to see how they'd botw-ise OoT but I imagine like SF64 it's gonna be the same game, just with some extra stuff in it.
>>741538679Bottom of the Well and Child Spirit Temple were among the highlights of the game, though.People praise the shit out of Forest Temple, but Spirit Temple doesn't get nearly enough.Well earns a point for the spooky factor before you get the lens of truth.
>>741538679I don't think any dungeons should be arbitrarily locked to child or adult only, but the items you can use as each and the changes to the world in each era naturally limit you. You can get into Dodongo's Cavern as an adult easily, but you needed the Goron Ruby to become an adult.
>>741538817The only item lockouts that really felt shitty were not being able to use sticks or boomerang as adult.Adult in Dodongo's Cavern breaks the dungeon since you can literally go through the whole thing backwards and avoid almost every puzzle.
>>741535807>they're broken up into two groupsNo they're not, you're making shit up.>and the triggers for the well and shadow temple won't activate until you finish the fire templeNo, Fire Temple isn't required for the Well or Spirit.
>>741538898Adult really didn't need to have any item lockouts from the child inventory other than maybe a failsafe for certain stuff in the trade/quest slot. The Kokiri Sword as a really crappy backup option would've been fine.
>>741539101He's talking about requirements in game logic.Forest, Fire and Water medallions are required to unlock Nocturne of Shadow, the song needed to access the Shadow Temple.Shadow and Spirit medallions are the only two the game checks for before rewarding the player with the light arrows and access to Ganon's Castle.
>>741539179Outside of emulation, equipping sticks as adult causes the game to hard crash. In emulation, sticks behave like the giant's knife when used by adult. The way the game handles a lot of shit is strange.
>>741539186He's clearly not just talking about that because of this:>the last two temples require the first three being beaten Which is clearly wrong; Spirit can be done before Fire, since it's only gated by Forest (bow and prelude of light) and Water (longshot), in a glitchless run.
>>741538501They turned out Majora's Mask in that time because they started MM the literal instant OoT finished development (proven by Gigaleak), the new work was a blend of old and new assets (Termina Field is a reuse of OoT beta Hyrule Field with the castle in the middle of the map for example), and they didn't really have to do any engine work or anything super complicated under the hood.BOTW's Hyrule is fucking retardedly large and has more going on than it seems at first. TOTK went over it with a fine tooth comb, added sky islands and other Z-axis additions, added the Depths as a Z-axis flip of the world with its own layout and enemy/loot positions, retooled a metric ass-ton of the non-Hylian regions, et cetera.
>>741539260Yeah I didn't say you could change the game to do this in the simplest fastest possible way and it'd work, I said that in design terms, nothing is broken by the concept.Interesting to learn how that works though. It's probably because of shared variables.
>>741539275He's clearly talking about that because that is the sole context in which the spirit and shadow temples are a group in the first place.
>>741539275I see what you're saying. You need the medallions to access Shadow Temple glitchless, but accessing Spirit can be done if you acquire the previous dungeon items and leave without defeating the boss.You still need to clear Forest, Fire and Water if you want to access Shadow Temple glitchless.
>>741539260Also, while you can technically cross Gerudo Desert glitchless long before getting the Lens of Truth and Hover Boots, both are part of the expected solution, so the intent of the game logic checking only the last two medallions is clear.
>>741539591yeah, crossing wasteland is technically glitchless, but also out of logic since the game expects lens. you know how the logic works
>>741539569>but accessing Spirit can be done if you acquire the previous dungeon items and leave without defeating the boss.You don't need to do that. You don't need anything from the Fire Temple to enter or beat Spirit. You can just beat Forest and Water and then go straight to Spirit.
>>741539784>>741539569And Well, obviously.
>>741539302>BOTW's Hyrule is fucking retardedly large and has more going on than it seems at firstMaking a large gameworld is trivial in this day in age. What we saw in Hyrule and Termina Field on the Nintendo 64 was truly cutting edge. The fucking Wii U could run BotW, and that piece of shit was literally two Wii's duct taped together.
>>741539784>You don't need anything from the Fire Temple to enter or beat Spirit.You need the Megaton Hammer to clear Gerudo Training Ground which gives you access to the Wasteland.
>>741539862Monolithsoft's ability to push Nintendo hardware into delivering relatively impressive worlds borders on supernatural.
>>741539931You zoomers really are, by and large, a pack of retards.
>>741539862It really isn't trivial, it's just "expected" because of how delusional publishers have gotten about open worlds.
>>741540005Show me a video of someone fully clearing Gerudo Training Ground glitchless without the hammer
>>741540083(You) get one last (You), retardo zoomie. The training ground has nothing to do with Spirit Temple. Maybe try one of other AI chat bots and see if it gives you a more accurate answer.
>Was letting me get all 3 Spiritual Stones part of your plan?
>>741540221You're right. I misremembered. You get the Gerudo Card after freeing the carpenters. It gives you access to both wasteland and GTG. Sorry for being retarded, however, there are hammer puzzles in Spirit Temple, but they're not required to finish the dungeon.
>>741540337>If I take that green hat off will you die!?
>>741540337>>741540374>Princess Zelda refused my offer in favor of yours. I had to find out what she told you.
>>741540337>He was holding a spiritual stone the size of a tangerine.
>>741540551>Well congratulations, you both got yourselves caught. Was being seen by Ganondorf the next step of your master plan?
Alright, let me get this shit clear:the consensus is that one can play Ocarina of Time, do the child section fairly normally, play forest until the bow, skip fire, do ice cavern for the water boots, do water temple for the longshot (really only needed for water temple boss access, hookshot is good for literally everything else), skip all of shadow and bottom of the well to cross the wasteland without the lens of truth, since you neglected to get the medallions? I know crossing wasteland is possible without it if you play the fuck out of the game, but it's honestly unrealistic for a playthrough. Nobody is skipping all of the early adult shit to hit up Spirit Temple early. Nobody does that. How the fuck are you going to get into Shadow Temple, retard!?
>>741539862Oot isn't that great, the fucking N64 could run that and it only had 4MB of ram.
>>741538381retard
>>741537872It's more or less obvious that it's the path forward, because it's a translation of the core Zelda experience into open world, a leap from the first Zelda game on NES to the technology of today. Too many people think in a very minoot and constricted way. For instance this whole notion that the game world needs to be hard locked by equipment that must necessarily be obtained in a puzzle box dungeon isolated from the overworld. There's several other possibilities, it's literally that they ALL conflict with that flawed premise to begin with. So I can't help but laugh when I read>It's hard for me to fathom how you or anyone else can think that Because it truly is hard for you to fathom that, that's true.
why do the favelas come up in here and start rewriting a history they were not apart of
>>741538134>Totk had insufficient contentkek
>>741514096There's so many known glitches that you can play the game any way you want.
>>741540337>Do you feel in charge?
>>741514096I hope they don't. Having a physical representation of something in the game that makes you think, damn I'm missing something let me explore and figure out what I'm missing. Is part of the problem solving process that makes the game so good. It switches your brain from, unga bunga, to the proper critical thinking that you need to solve the puzzles, find the secrets, and be immersed in the exploration.The game guides you along the path but there are plenty of paths and secrets to find. Increasing the fidelity and look of the world will make the secrets and exploration that much more immersive and interesting.
>>741540882I like doing Gerudo Training Ground as early as I can for the Ice Arrows, and then it's just easy to go do Spirit. So I typically do Forest > Water > Spirit > Fire > Shadow. But I've done other stuff as well.
>>741541826That's the core Zelda OVERWORLD not the entirety of the damn gameAnd the OVERWORLD still has a lot of that puzzle-solving and traversal puzzling going on with shit like the raft, candle, bombs, recorder, ladderWhy would you cite Zelda 1 and its sense of exploration knowing full well that Zelda 1 has item-based area progression and puzzle solving, this is in direct contradiction to BOTW/TOTK requiring little or nothing of its given problem-solving tools for the actual problems you're going to findZelda 1 is a jigsaw puzzle where you can fit together more and more of it with items, modern open-world Zelda is a Rubik's Cube that's only a couple moves from being solved
>>741514096You have to beat every temple anyway so the order barely matters
>>741543062Using ice arrows on Bongo Bongo is pure kino
non linearity to the max like in botw, means every puzzle is toddler tier because they are all designed to be both your first and your last, whereas good puzzle design is about building up on previous iterations, adding increasingly complex layersoot already had this issue where no puzzle ever build on anything, you get one new item that could be used across the whole game in new or interesting ways but no, you get to the bomb dungeon and the only thing that matters is bombs etc you get the lens of truth, like the ultimate sort of tool for recontextualization, that could have revealed secrets everywhere and incentivized revisiting all previous areas with new discoveries, but no it's only useful in the one dungeon with false wallsthere's never any deeper interplay between the various tool itemssame with time travel, so much potential for interplay between multiple timelines and they don't do anything with it besides plant a bean that becomes a leaf so you can get a couple optional hearts. lol.it's fundamentally a toddler designed game that never evolves past rock paper scissor
>>741514096Zelda games should just do what Echoes of Wisdom did, where they give you two or three dungeons at a time and you can do those in any order. Once you're done the set then you get the next set of dungeons.
>>741514519BOTW/TOTK are not Zelda games.
>>741543725It sounds to me like you just want a 2D Zelda. They have optional secrets all over the world that you need to use your dungeon items or whatever the game's big gimmick is to get.
>>741543972except for when they beef it chasing the "muh freedoms, muh nonlinearity" dragon like link between worlds did
>>741530841>I want to complete a game a hundred times>I want a randomizer on top so I can endlessly entertain myselfJust play another game retard. Otherwise you're on your way to speedrunning and taking HRT.
>>741517561No matter what they do, the remake will be objectively bad because the concept of a remake is bad. Supposedly timeless games can never justify a remake.
>OoT Remake>Split into 3 games just like FF7R>Nintendies would defend this
>>741544931Pokemon already does the same thing. 2 installments plus dlc every gen.
>>741542186kind of interesting
>>741543125>That's the core Zelda OVERWORLD not the entirety of the damn gameYou still don't get it, you could have a Zelda game with no dungeons, and it would be GOOD.
>>741545264we had two they were both on the switch and everybody fucking hated the non-dungeons
>>741543725>non linearity to the max means every puzzle is toddler tier You got refuted earlier, no reason to read the rest.
>>741543761this, but you only need to do one in the set to get the next set
>>741545301>we had twowe had none, try again
>>741545387calling hyrule castle a dungeon in either game is somewhat generous given how zelda dungeons are usually structured, and the divine beasts + tears' temples are rather dogshit on top of the "find 5 computers" structure, the only dungeons i recall with any clarity are gorondia being annoying and the lightning temple for having a chintzy mirror shield reference and a cool design for gibdos
>>741514096Hopefully yes just to spit at /v/rowns
>>741514096your image triggers my 'tism so I fixed it for you
2D Zelda > 3D Zelda
>>741545228It just makes sense. Think of the early torch puzzles. The strategic placement of enemies that drop Deku sticks, realizing they can catch fire if you ran by a torch. Seeing that some of the other torches are unlit. Bam, instant realization. Now when you enter rooms you look harder for things you may have missed, look up and around. It's so good.
>>741545469that has no relevance to anything, you never understood what I was talking about
>>741523375>rewardless You get a growth item in each dungeon for upgrading the Master Sword and your Stamina, though. Plus the Hylian Shield, Titan's Mitt, and Blue/Red Mail
>>741538134I never owned a Wii U, but did it have the standby feature the Switch has? Cause the shrines to me felt very much caused by the>pick up and play for a short timementality the Switch seems to have with the portability aspect. So do a shrine quickly while you're on the train to work or some shit.
>>741540882I think you're mostly correct, but I believe you need one temple cleared in order to go back in time, as glitchless can't do anything beyond get requiem as adult on first visit.
>>741546884Need to have cleared Forest
Ship + 2Ship or 64 Recomp?
>>741516223>a Shiek boss fightwhat? why? how? it's zelda, not elden slopi hope they never go down the souls-like path
>>741517627>They will also include korok seed huntsImagine how butthurt /v/ would be if all the Kokiri were retconned into koroks.
>>741523053They're remaking ocarina of time to mane moneyThe last two zelda games chased ow trends to make money, too
>>741514096
>>741546590the fuck does any of that have to do with missing a quest item on your quest item screen, you can't set any enemies on fire in Oot, what the fuck are you talking about Jesse Breaking Bad
>>741546849Idk why you think anything would be improved if you couldn't pick up and play it, you could literally just play a couple shrines back to back if you wanted more, like how you overeat because you feel hungry, you fat fuck.
>>741548012>they made the three best Zelda games back to back chasing moneyholy shit, they should charge $80 for this remake and the next mainline entry at this point, they figured it all out honestly
>>741548196I understand this reference, originally Mido was the shadow sage.
>>741549008What? Oh y-yeah, that's why I posted it.
>>741523254Zelda games are easy in general, but the 2D ones have more challenge than anything in the 3D ones.
>>741549709except botw
