ITT: aesthetic dishonesty
qrd on this new buzzword, not clicking a tubeslop vaguepost essay
>>741654919?
>>741654919This is why Mega Man is better
I bought Matt's game on switch but I got filtered at a puzzle on the first rowIt's funny seeing "Matthewmatosis" listed as a publisher on an actual video game consolemakes me wish I had the drive to actually make things
>double jump is now coyote time >because some shit for brains eceleb who just discovered games older than 10 years says soneck yourselves. play in traffic. drink bleach. fuck a cactus.
>>741654919>Sun Station>SUN>sun is warm>warm milk will make you see better>if you see better you can land easier>can't land on the sun station even after trying for hourswhy couldn't the devs be honest?
Coyote time is how I reached some items earlier in castlevania games.
>dork comes back to YouTube after X years trying to make a fuss over miniscule shit with a new buzzwords faggots are going to parrot everywhereCrazy how all his game design knowledge couldn't turn his game into something worth glancing at amid the sea of mediocre indieshit
>>741654919i cant believe Donkey Kong Country got so popular despite it's A E S T H E T I C D I S H O N E S T Y can you believe this!!?!??!!
why did he lie about the dark souls quote hes so weird lol
>>741655471I dont care about this e-celeb, but "coyote time" is not the same as double jump. It's basically a brief time after you leave a platform where you can still jump, not all sidescrollers have it of course.
when donkey kong did this you loved it, hypocrite
>>741655025It's not a particularly new word, just not very common. It's a play on Looney Tunes Wile E Coyote-- where he or the Roadrunner would end up running on air but not falling until they noticed they're no longer on solid ground. "The time between Wile E Coyote running off the cliff and when he would fall"This specific cheat of letting the player jump when they're not on the platform prevents the classic problem in platformers of needing to jump at the edge of a platform, but slipping off of it and losing their jump (sometimes eating the characters 'double jump' in games that allow that).It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edge, since its obvious what you were trying to do, so games giving you a few frames of leeway to make the jump "perfectly" feels better for players and lets them focus on doing the interesting and difficult parts of navigation.It is similar to how some modern fighting games will accept a number of 'slightly wrong' inputs for things like dragon-punch inputs or rolls. Its clear what you wanted to do and the timing is based on when you pushed the button, so if you rolled 810 degrees instead of 720 degrees, or started at the 9 position instead of straight up position on a grappler, it'd be stupid to have your character do nothing.
>noooo you can't account for input lag by creating a buffer zone for jump inputs! that's hecking dishonest to the player!!!What the fuck was his problem?
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect Yes it is
Dude disappeared inside his own ass. It's really not that deep of a concept.
>>741656575Lenient inputs are part of the reason modern fighting games are shit.
>>741656575And is he trying to spin it like a bad thing? I didn't realize this was a thing people didn't know
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfectBut it is
>>741654919coyote time is a necessity thanks to pig disgusting LCD becoming the dominant display tech
>>741655482it's possible. keep trying.
What eceleb made a video on coyote time that threads about it have spawned the last few days?
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edgeDisagree
>>741655025>explain this>no im not clickin on the explaination video fuck off
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edge, since its obvious what you were trying to doNigger you could say that about literally any skill>Oh it's not really an expression of skill to draw the picture perfectly since its obvious what you were trying to doFuck off you stupid faggot
>>741656834>>741656987>>741657094I have to say anon I'm really impressed by the way you did it over and over and over and over and over again over about twenty minutes until you finally managed to jam it on time. It was a really riveting and interesting part of the game experience we wouldn't have had if we could have just jumped at the spot we wanted to the first time instead of floundering around like a greased pig in a washing machine full of tennis balls.>>741656972Lots of people who are shit at videogames will invent specific metrics and skills that make you 'good' at videogames that are difficult and annoying for everyone; that way they can do the whole 'no true scotsman' routine whenever people say things like 'this is a frame perfect jump, I can only do it about 60% of the time'. Of course with their cock firmly pressed to one side of their mouth, they'll say 'I never miss, get good scrub'.
I'm 100% on board with invisible walls being aesthetic dishonesty, but coyote time? That's one the same level as the hitbox of a spike being smaller than the sprite to make the game feel less frustrating, since you can no longer die by touching the top-most pixel of the tip
>>741657163No ~30 minute gaming video needs to be that long to get game design points across. The last time I watched a video like that it was how to remake Sonic to be better and it was laughably bad, almost satire if it didn't have so much endless thought and editing put into it
>>741655025If you don't understand what it means from the image, you're genuinely retarded.
The hitboxes in Mina are aesthetically dishonest.
>>741657317cool
>>741655482You simply haven't drunk enough milk yet
>>741657214Frame-perfect execution is interesting and exciting. Sorry you're not good enough.
>>741657351If it's just "coyote time" then why have two fucking buzzwords for it? Why name the video anything but coyote time if it's just relating to that?
>>741654919Dishonesty implies the dev made some indication that this wouldnt be the case. It's only a lie against the projected truth from your own imagination, which is more a matter of mismanaged expectations
>>741654919Isn't Coyote time planned for this game?
>trivia, oldfags: neat. interesting detail.>trivia, newfags: *SIGH* WE GET IT YOU [consumed literalwho e-celeb content] PEOPLE ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO KNOW THINGS WHEN *I* PERSONALLY DISCOVER THEM.Just don't like 'em.
>>741656575I think its a quality of life thing because it appears to be a mechanic for platformers, of which the typical audience is primarily casuals.And yes, frame perfect actions are definitely high skill more than any developer would ask for a casual audience.
>>741655471actually, double jump is when you get coyote time after a jump.
>add coyote time>adjust the jumps to REQUIRE coyote time
>>741657557>Dishonesty implies the dev made some indication that this wouldnt be the caseYeah, like the length of the platform
I never realized games are aesthetically lying to me. Holy fuck..........
>>741657685at least that's good use of the feature.
>>741655025it's the thing in Tony Hawk that lets you boneless a split second after leaving the ramp for more height
>>741654919>coyote timeYou mean the Stance of the Coyote?
>>741657468Doing something difficult under pressure is one accepted definition of skill, doing it 100 or 200 times-- bitching about it over and over again-- and then coming around like you're big dick Thompson (called that on account of the large penis) when you finally got it the one time you needed to; that's just celebrating idiot endurance triumphing over one's own incompetence.
>>741654919thanks for the new word filter
>>741655471Did you consider it double jumping in Donkey Kong Country
>>741655025Some youtuber made a video with the name "aesthetic dishonesty" and now /v/ is shitting and pissing and cumming.
>>741655025A bunch of Nierfags are upset that their shit game got called shit.
>>741657903'frame perfect' like 95% of the time someone calls something this it's at least a 3 frame window execution is skill based, you just suck big dick Thompson's dickThe point is pattern recognition. Certain shapes, jumps etc will have tight windows and while doing it the first time might take a bit when you see that same structure again as part of something else you already know how to do it, or at worst can intuit the timings you'll need from previous knowledgeWatch anyone who plays kaizo mario hacks, IWBTG fangames, etc. They first try a lot of shit because of exactly this
>>741657351Double jump?
>>741655025Matt made a video about it, so now it's in vogue
>>741657598I get what you mean, but sadly a lot of the modern internet is like that: they only care about things when someone popular has covered it. And it's true not only for games but for music, movies etc. And it gets tiring because they won't engage for its own sake but because it's the latest thing.
>>741658685Yes because they have practiced the skills constantly and their execution then is rather impressive; generally when the platforming becomes very hectic and complicated.But would coyote time prevent them from doing these impressive levels? On the contrary, jumping when they've left the platform likely puts them out of position.But they're not here on my Mongolian basketweaving forums about the fucking casuals being allowed to jump when they're off the platform are they? Because that would be fucking retarded and insecure.
>>741654919IS coyote time actually aesthetic dishonesty though?It lies to your immediate senses since you can go off the platform and not immediately fall, sure. You couldn't infer coyote time from a screenshot. At the same time, you still use your senses to deduce how coyote time works. It's not visible in the most superficial layer, but it's visible if you're paying attention to the game state over time
why are no brains into essayists, not for the actual content, but for the parasocial relationship? bizarre
>>741655025>>741656987Not new, Donkey Kong was the pioneer for this mechanic.I'm a dev we use this word since forever and there's than these correction mechanics such as jump buffer for the player to buffer a jump if player presses jump right before hitting the floor, or corner correction when jumping to nudge the player into open space to prevent hitting with the head on a corner.
>>741654919The amount of hidden speedtranny "mechanics" in this game is genuinely infuriating.Worse when they are demanded in the last level because fuck the player
>>741659573>>>/tv/go there and stay there tranny, this is where you belong
>>741654919I appreciate sulfur make it a full on stat dependent on items, now if only they'd stop nerfing the fun out or the game.
>>741659548In DKC you have to roll off of a ledge to keep your jump, so you still needed to mean to do it
>ambiguity BADThat's the basis of all his videos because his autistic brain can't handle anything beyond the surface of what he sees.
>>741659175The entire intention of coyote time is to remove precision from the equation for a more casual audience. That itself isn't a bad thing but the gameplay styles are incompatible. I don't know for sure since I've not played it myself but I'm pretty sure the late secret levels for celeste hard require coyote time to complete as they lean more and more into kaizo, and turning what was previously an assist into a required mechanic is a very janky and 'dishonest' way of adding challenge. You can have fun and impressive gameplay with it but it generally obscures the route and intention in a genre that's usually very upfront with what the challenge is, minus the occasional trollI'm sure funny red hair sloptuber has some fancy words to describe what I'm talking about, but I don't watch hour long essays on games I don't care about from people trying to prove to their mom their degree in philosophy was worth something
Why say "inconsistency" when you can say "aesthetic dishonesty" and look like a massive dickhead for only two more syllables?
>>741659225Is peekaboo aesthetically dishonest?
>>741659548Didn't DKC list it as a gameplay mechanic you could do with a roll?
>>741660562Because >>741660179
>>741659225>It's not visible in the most superficial layer, but it's visible if you're paying attention to the game state over timeWhy make the simple task of jumping trial and error when you could just use intuitive visuals?
>>741654919>tranny mechanics in a tranny game
>>741660562How is something like coyote time inconsistent?
>>741655025Matthewmatosis made a video of him being a whiny bitch and made up a term that is strangely identical to ludonarrative dissonance. You know, a complicated way to call a hidden mechanic. yeah Matt is a retard and it's meaningless.
>>741660739>Why make the simple task of jumping trial and error when you could just use intuitive visuals?Games ask you to deduce things that aren't immediately perceptible in the outermost sensory layer all the time because that can add to player experience. There is joy in discovery, and satisfaction in execution since it's harder to pull off. As long as the game gives you the information to make the deduction(like Donkey Kong placing a collectible on the edge of a platform), I don't think it's dishonest. Maybe aesthetically dishonest, but not in the greater context of the game
>>741655025It's gay and fake
>>741655250BASED
>>741661292The window to jump is inconsistent with the visuals of the platform.
>>741657746When does coyote time end? You can't fully tell and that's why this mechanic is dogshit
It's only "dishonest" if the game's mechanics do not in any way allow the player to discover the mechanic or mechanical interaction in question organically. Two examples:1.) Being able to "double jump" in DKC by initially rolling (or spinning, if you're Dixie) off of a ledge is perfectly fine. There are a lot of jumps where the player will want a bit of extra speed and distance, and it's therefore obvious to roll before the jump. Eventually, the player will mistime a jump and realize that there's a window where they can double jump. The mechanics of the game organically lead to the discovery of a new mechanical interaction. (Furthermore, I don't think there are any jumps in DKC1 or 2 that require double jumping; in effect, double jumping just makes existing jumps easier or more consistent.)2.) In contrast, there's no way to know that taking your foot off the acceleration in Diddy Kong Racing gives you a unique, green boost when driving over a boost pad. There is no logical reason to decelerate while driving over a boost pad. A player is much more likely to discover this mechanical interaction by complete accident, and the closest you can come to discovering it organically is by braking to hit a boost pad you'd otherwise miss and mistiming your (re)acceleration.tl;dr video games are complex toys, they're designed to be played with. It's fine for your toys to deceive some of your senses as long as they don't deceive all of them illogically. That would be a very boring toy.
>>741659225Is double jump?Because if the logic is "jump from ground, I can see consistently the start, peak, and stop of my jump but coyote invalidates that because you have to gauge off timing" then is double jumping any better? On one hand, I get the point that being forced to internalize abstracted timers can be dumb. On the other, if he's going to ramble about the senses, then perception of time is pretty crucial and its not like these games are lying about that.
this thread made me actually watch that retarded video and it made me whince. he really spends waaaaay too much time inside his own head pondering retarded shitchecked out when he started whining about grass
>>741661718>(Furthermore, I don't think there are any jumps in DKC1 or 2 that require double jumping; in effect, double jumping just makes existing jumps easier or more consistent.)The only times I remember needing to do a roll jump is getting letters/coins. Given most of them were over death pits, that alone should mean there's a way to get them without dying.
>>741658042Yeah.You can only hit it when rolling, and the window is so extremely long that it’s practically a DK long jump.
If a game prevented you from double jumping after X amount of time from your first jump would that be aesthetic deception
>>741659225Coyote time is a game's way of trying to make up for the innate aesthetic dishonesty of input lag. You react in time from seeing the danger and hitting jump, but the jump input itself might not be registered by the game until a few frames later.
>>741661895Mega Man solved this btw
>>741661718Your second example is definitely more egregious than the first, but they're both dishonest at their core.It makes sense from the developer's perspective why they'd add coyote time, but for the player trying to make sense of a new game, you'd be insane to assume you can jump after running off the ledge. Even if/when you discover it, you're likely to think "this makes no sense, why does it work like that? How was I supposed to know that?". The end of the ledge effectively tells the player "you cannot jump after this point" and is lying.Games all have different rules that a player is intended to figure out as they play. Having all these rules explicitly told to you would mean a very long tutorial, but it would be nice if the game didn't deliberately guide you into misunderstanding the rules.
>>741654919If jumping to avoid running into an enemy has no coyote time equivalent why do platforms need it?
>>741662251yeah that makes sense. my memory of DKC is like 99% the any% all levels speedrun routes, which is obviously the bare minimum you need to beat the game. I don't take issue with letters / DK coins requiring double jump, because as you said it's just a hint that the mechanic exists.speaking of shit in DKC that I actually hate, fuck the fake walls in DKC2. that shit is actually deceitful as fuck.
>the only way /v/ knows how to communicate now is when an e-celeb tells them what to do
>>741662760Based Matthewmatosis
I did not care for how Crash 4 altered the slide jump to give it ridiculous levels of coyote time
>>741662710It does have an equivalent. Giving enemies smaller visual hitboxes so they're easier to jump over. He mentions piranha plants in SMB1 as an example in the video.
The video is called Aesthetic Deception by the way.
>>741654919dozens of critically acclaimed platformers don't do this and no one complains
>>741662752>fuck the fake walls in DKC2Some of them were in small enough areas (and you could see there’s something over there) that you’d figure there HAD to be a way through. But then others DK coins especially god damn were definitely guidebook sellers.
>>741654919>coyote time what kind of retard came up with that term?
>>741655471It's not a double jump, and it's been a term for years.
>>741663115Warner Bros. and Looney Tunes were culture defining pieces.
>>741663068This one complained.
>>741663115Someone with good taste in cartoons
>>741659225>aesthetic dishonesty>aesthetic
>>741655025>>741655471>>741663115>never watched looney tunesI'd call you brown but even they watched that. WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!?
>knock enemy down>go to attack him again >being knocked down means he's invincible and I'm supposed to wait for him to get up before attacking again
>>741661293kek how is he so fucking gay and stupid consistently
>>741663115one of the western platformer developers, might have been naughty dog or insomniac.
>>741663630double brown
>>741662671there has never been a game that is "honest" by your shitpost definition because not a single game operates the way reality does and this defies expectations from the first moment you see it
>>741654919>it's dishonest that every single game doesn't play identicalReally tired of this fag
>>741663628Movement is part of aesthetic
>>741663730it used to be more common in like, obama-era. pre-gamergate slang on gamedev or other places.
>>741663742Shieeeeet
>>741663730I think it was Naughty Dog when they found Crash fucking sucked with strict jumping controls. Also that game was directly trying to do the Warner cartoon style
>>741663835Classic case of autism
>>741661457>it's harder to pull offCoyote time makes jumping easier as it increases the effective platform length. Using it to its fullest (i.e. for maximum distance) is mechanically not any different than just getting used to jumping at the end of the platform.
>>741654919In which of these cases would be fair to allow the jump?
>>741660179This might explain why he's so shit at shmups on his live streams. He can't even beat the easy games because he can't accept the hitbox doesn't match the sprite and the projectiles need to be baited.
>>741663648I've been replaying Fable to prepare for the tranny reimagining and it's so fucking bad about this.Every 3 attacks the enemy will fall to the ground and go invincible for a few seconds.This has become one of my most hated mechanics. I cannot see a value in it.
>>741663905Right.
>>7416646533
>>7416646531 and only 1, anything else is for casuals
>>741654919What's the difference between this term and affordances?
>>741662897is this the same nigger who got filtered by dark souls 2 lmao
>>741664653All of them. Once the player starts falling halfway below the platform is when it starts to act more like a double jump. As long as the player is close on the y axis it makes sense.
in the context sensitivity video he did a fairly good job staking out a position on the subject he was trying to establish. in this new video he seems far more wishy washy, not nearly as eager in establishing his own position by the end of the video.
>>741657179Stop with your autism, sperg, also sneed.
>>741663782I just meant the games shouldn't actively nislead the player. The rules don't have to be realistic, just easy to infer.Fire arrows don't have to start forest fires, but when you overhear Sekiro NPCs talking about how an enemy is afraid of fire, and it's not afraid of any of the fire in the level, but instead just takes more damage from fire weapons, this is misleading.
>>741655471Take your meds schizo NOW.
>game has a jump with low ceiling that requires you to exploit coyote time in order to not bonk your head, making the timing very precise there needs to be a buffer zone after that in case you mistime the coyote jump
>>741654919
>shoot boss>eventually realise he's not taking damage >you're actually supposed to run away until eventually he runs into an electric transformer and dies in a cutscene
>>741664653on all which the character can still "stand" when not moving
>>741664784What the fuck is hidden affordance? Affordance is when a thing invites an action, like how a handle signals for you to grab it, or a button to push it. If that's hidden, there's by definition no affordance. It's like calling something a non-reflective mirror
>>741665198Grim
>>741663648Literally my number one gripe with Twilight Princess.>bokoblins will always be knocked down after a complete attack string>this renders them completely immune to and and all damage with the sole exception of the "finisher" sword move; a problem invented for its solution >this means that if you are in wolf form, they’re untouchable>a mook lying helpless on the ground cannot be harmed by a wolf>despite the fact that there ALREADY EXISTS A RIP-OUT-THEIR-THROAT ANIMATION that is ONLY used to rip out poe soulsActual fucking insanity.Every time I think about this game and how deftly it fucks up things that were 98% of the way to excellence, I get angrier.
>>741664917didn't feel like he had a strong position on it. Felt like he was saying "I wish game devs cared about this thing I've noticed, or were at least consistent with the application"
>>741657860you made that up. get back to sweeping.
Why is the only other example of "coyote time" people have given ITT is DKC even though you have to roll off a ledge to jump in those games so it's an entirely different thing from the ugly pixel mess in the OP
>>741665792>>this means that if you are in wolf form, they’re untouchableWasn't wolf form able to bite downed enemies or did I make that up
>>741665295>shoot boss and use up all ammo>he's invincible>run away>turns out it was supposed to be a chase section and now you get to the phase where you have to actually kill him
>>741665725>>741665198Shazam lost
>>7416646534 would be ok if the player was ~5 pixels back
>>741665792Would be cool if the PC port added options for those kind of features
>>741665964But he shouldn't
>>741654919Is this about how games balance game difficulty around "feeling right" as opposed to being 100% accurate?
>>741665856That is, as far as I recall, exclusive to poes.Even Midna's team-up area attack won’t touch prone bokoblins.
giant lol at sweaty tards itt
Donkey Kong Countries let you roll off ledges and THEN jump, you gonna tell me that's bad game design? Or is real physics just lame and boring and games shouldn't be bound by that?
>>741666149That's not coyote time
>>741666241If you have a problem with one, you should have a problem with the other.
Frame-perfect jumps isn't a sign of skill, it's a sign of pure memorization and artificial difficulty. It's exactly the type of dishonest stage design that /v/ loves to claim Celeste is when it's not.
Is double jump considered coyote time then?
>>741655471Double jumps are for lazy developers that can't level design. End of discussion
I came into this thread thinking it was going to be about pixels that aren't actually pixels
>>741666269Rolling off ledges (i.e. pushing Y, which increases your speed momentarily and makes you kill certain enemies before coming to a stop) and then jumping is an entirely different mechanic, aesthetically, thematically and mechanically, than lazily walking off a ledge and then jumping.
>>741666321That's like saying rhythm games aren't skill based.
>>741665295re6 lmao
>>741666321Of course they are, otherwise everyone would be doing one frame links in fighting games.
>>741666649You're describing asinine differences but ultimately both achieve the samething: to make jumping mechanics more complex in ways that would be physically impossible in real life. So what if the roll "kills enemies?" What distinction does that make?
>>741659548It was invented for DKC due to how imprecise the CGI tilesets were, so players couldn't really telll where edges started and where they ended. It was made as a player assist but it created bad habits, even if DKC did end up using it for the occasional power up or secret it wore its welcome and became a crutch like double jumping is in more modern platformers.
This is probably the first video from Matt where I went, "bro, you're getting a little too autistic." It genuinely seems to me that if given the option, games would only be a series of mechanical input challenges, and nothing more.
>grace period for making jumps in a platformerSure why not. Just don't fucking call it "coyote time."
>>741667191The difference is that the DKC way is active: you have to push a button in a certain situation to achieve an airborn jump. Meanwhile, the Celeste way is completely passive, you don't have to do anything and you get that free jump either way. That makes both of them completely different things.Note, also, that I never said anything about realism.
>>741659548The word you are looking for is called grace period.
Matt deciding to die on the hill that is coyote time is certainly a decision. There's not a single person I'm aware of that has a problem with coyote time.
>>741667414I mean, if your issue with it is purely difficulty, that's fine. It's definitely a technique that takes more effort. But someone saying it's "aesthetically dishonest" doesn't seem to be approaching this from that same angle.
>>741667504Because it's a slang within slang.
>>741667305>>741667589Rolljumping actually has more risk than a normal jump because you also fall faster while you're rolling. The only uses it has are collecting items placed over pits and dodging certain obstacles in some levels, IIRC you only see that kind of jump in a few lategame levels.
>>741667640DKC2 expects you to do it fairly often, IIRC.
>>741662556The window is actually infinite, which fucking blew my mind
>>741667504I've watched the video. He doesn't outright say that the practice is bad, only that it is a common practice that is indicative of the games visuals not matching the game's mechanical intent. There is a reason people bitch endlessly about bad hitboxes. If you can't trust what the game shows you it tends to lead to frustration, but even then Matt is honest enough to state that certain games benefit from the dishonest by effecting the player's emotional state rather than the game systems themselves(such as horror games).
La-Mulana has no coyote time.Spleunky is the most egregious offender of abusing coyote time.
>>741655471I
>>741667703Going off entirely my memory you only really need it to reach some bonuses, in one of the bramble levels and maybe also in one of the haunted woods levels. I also recall Diddy having a much better rolljump than Dixie, to balance her being able to the monkeycopter thing.
For me, it's Donald Duck time.
>>741655913Underrated post
>>741660739>Mechanics allow you additional time to make a jump when you have run off a platform, which by all accounts makes the game easier>Jumping is now trial and errorWhat? Also, exploring game worlds, mechanics, interactions, etc., is a huge part of peoples enjoyment in games. It might not be your preference, but things aren't bad just because they aren't explicitly stated.>>741661293Doesn't ludonarrative dissonance refer to when the controls and input for the game actively work against the themes and purpose the game is trying to convey? I don't know if that is the same as "aesthetic dishonesty", though admittedly idk nor care who the toober is that started talking about it.
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edgeWhat the fuck
>>741657246He never says aesthetic dishonesty is a blanket bad thing. He defines it so he can explore the ways it's used in video games. Coyote time, he expressly says, "is often overlooked because it works in the player's favour."
>>741668037>Jumping is now trial and errorIt only is if you as a player attempt to utilize the jump leniency. The about of time that is allowed is different in each game so it is up to the player to try, fail, and try again until they learn what that particular game's allowance is and then they must do it again for a new game.
>>741668037Ludonarrative dissonance is explicitly about the separation/dissociation between the game mechanically and the narrative presented. If there is no story in a game then it can't have ludonarrative dissonance. The easiest example is when a cutscene in a game has rules that are separate from rules of the game(ie your character gets shot a thousand times in game and a health pack makes him all better but that one bullet from the cutscene puts him in the hospital). Its the shit people complain about when they go>fight boss and win>cutscene starts and my character lost the fight
>>741665821Because Coyote Time as it is MEANT to exist is something you don't actually notice and is literally only there to ensure the input lag is majority covered for. Aside from DKC where it became a real mechanic it's only meant to last 0.1 seconds.
>>741668180>He never says aesthetic dishonesty is a blanket bad thing.sure and when i call you a faggot nigger retard maybe i'm being affectionate
>>741665821Because it's the example Matt gives.
>>741669074So some retard invent a term and couldn't even be bothered to stay consistent with his own examples for that term, amazing.
>>741668373>The about of time that is allowed is different in each game so it is up to the player to try, fail, and try again until they learnIsn't that true for basically every mechanic in every game ever? Outside of direct sequels or something like that, the timing for jumps, jump height, speed, acceleration, etc., is going to be different game to game, sometimes significantly so. Even in games of the same genre. If you go from Super Mario Bro's to Super Meat Boy, you will have to relearn how the jump works through trial and error.
>>741661718>In contrast, there's no way to know that taking your foot off the acceleration in Diddy Kong Racing gives you a unique, green boost when driving over a boost pad.The game literally tells you about the mechanic. I forget the exact trigger, I think it's when you beat a boss, but occasionally the genie elephant gives you tips and that's one of them.
>>741667504>use something as an example>dying on a hillYou people are so desperate.
>>741661690But if every ledge has the same amount of coyote time then the game is internally consistent and it doesn't fall under "aesthetic dishonesty" by his own definition.
>>741669456It's the strongest example he gave. Without it the video becomes aimless babbling.
>>741669298>If you go from Super Mario Bro's to Super Meat Boy, you will have to relearn how the jump works through trial and error.You won't have to relearn that you can jump when your character is on the ground. It's intuitively clear because that's how actual jumping works.
>>741669298>Isn't that true for basically every mechanic in every game ever?You're right that those things you listed are different, but the point is that those things are scene. I can see how meat boy's jump arcs and I can see how quickly he falls, how high he jumps and even how if the jump affects my speed(either in the air or when I hit the ground). I can use my eyes to see all of these things, but I can't see the timer on how long I have to make a jump when I'm falling off a ledge. The only way to meaningfully utilize that grace period is to test it and find it's limits without the help of the visuals. That's why Matt calls it aesthetic deception. The visuals of the game are giving me bad information. My eyes are telling me that I am falling to my death, but on a meta level I can learn that those visuals are just abstractions and I can still jump for a little bit. That little bit is different(or nonexistent) in each game though, so I trial and error until I learn the timing without the visuals.
>>741667963yeah I mean "need" narrows the scope considerably. The game EXPECTS you to cartwheel off dozens of ledges for bananas or maybe a KONG letter all the damn time.
>>741661718also, stuff like coyote time and imprecise hitboxes exist is because accuracy in those instances is actually a negative that would lead to even worse "visual dishonesty" or whatever the buzzword was
>>741654919Instead of only letting you jump off of the platform, let you stand there, tooProblem solved
This is the video for anons just entering the threadhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuBIW9h4qw4
>>741666840Frame-perfect jumps would literally be those 'drawing a pattern and then fill the entire stage with one-hit spikes that kills you if you deviate from the path' shit that /v/ complains about. Don't you dare start saying otherwise.
>>741667428that's two words
>>741670491That's what I'm saying! Mega Man did it the best.
>>741670562>
>>741670517It's only frame perfect if you need to jump at the last possible frame to get enough distance. If starting the jump before you run off the platform still gives you enough distance, then you don't need coyote time.
>>741669626Is it aesthetic dishonesty for games to have a double jump? Its not intuitively clear that your character can do that because that now how actual jumping works.>>741669758>Input a jump late>Visually see that your character jumps despite being off the platformJust because you dont have a bespoke HUD coyote time display timer doesn't mean you can't see what is happening on screen.>My eyes are telling me I am falling to my deathIf you input a jump your eyes wouldn't be telling you that?
>>741670717>Is it aesthetic dishonesty for games to have a double jump?No? The game rules are easy to understand:>you can always jump when you are in the ground state>you can only jump once when you are in the air state
>>741670789So then what is difficult to understand about the following:>You can jump immediately after running off a platform
>>741670979>immediatelyHow long after?
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edgeDamn this really triggered the trannies, now I can see why they hate AI.
>>741671017How long do you need to wait between a grounded jump and your air jump? What are the height, acceleration differences between the grounded jump and the air jump? There is ambiguity in the explanations you gave also. Do you expect the game to give the players frame data?
>>741654919Wouldn't all fighting games be technically aesthetically deceptive? It's all about hitbox fuckery.
>>741671145It's easier to tell when the player is in the ground state or air state than it is to know when you can jump based on an invisible timer
>>741671454I think block stun is more aesthetically deceptive
>>741669325huh, my bi still consider it something you can't really intuitively learn from gameplay. a better example might be elden ring's jump mechanic deleting your character's leg hurtboxes; even though there's tons of moves that you can logically jump, the game never tells you just how effective jumping is and you get punished more often than not for trying. it wasn't until the DLC that they made it REALLY obvious that there's some shit you should be jumping 100% of the time.once you're aware of how it works, it's a fine mechanic, but getting there is awkward and unintuitive.
Monitoring this thread with interest.
Its adouble jump you fucking morons
>>741654919The graphics in this game look shit it looks like someone's first indie game.>>741655025IT'S THE FUCKING THING FROM LOONEY TOONES WHERE THE COYOTE RUNS OFF A LEDGE BUT HE DOESN'T FALL RIGHT AWAY BECAUSE HE HASN'T NOTICED HE WALKED OFF THE EDGE YET. IT'S SO OBVIOUS.Lol.
>>741671454yes, everyone's talking about coyote time for a few reasons but hurt/hitbox stuff is the most prominent and well-known example
>>741671454kind of, yeah. but it's only a problem if the game doesn't give you the resources to learn frame data / hitbox interactions. training modes that have features like visual representations of frame time, input record / replay, etc. mitigate the difficulty of learning fighting games.if you want a negative example, smash ultimate's training mode is a fucking joke. you can't even set the CPU's directional influence (DI), which is basically what direction they'll be knocked back by attacks and has a huge effect on confirms and combos. you can "visualize" DI with trajectory lines, but not set DI. i don't even think ultimate's training mode has hitbox visualization, LMAO.
Matthew is starting to delete old streams. In one that's gone now he was drunk and ranting about how you only really need four square of TP to properly wipe after a shit.
>>741671927did he delete the one where he was flirting with his sister
>>741671145>How long do you need to wait between a grounded jump and your air jump?Easy to figure out through visuals alone without any trial and error while also being generally useless information for optimal use of your double jump.>How long can you delay your jump after falling off the platform and still get coyote time?The opposite of above.
>>741670648Then that's not frame perfect jumps, is it?
>>741671512>its easier to tellCompletely subjective. And it doesn't answer my question of what is the wait time between a grounded jump and an air jump? Can you burn through both your jumps one after the other in two frames? Is there a jump animation which needs to finish before you can input another? Is there an "invisible timer" of a few frames between the jumps?And you're acting like we have no idea when the jump is going to be allowed. Sure you might not know the frame data, but we do know the timing based off a visual cue; immediately after we run off a platform. That "invisible timer" is going to be in a very small window.>>741671983Right because its very difficult to run of a ledge and input a jump, then visually determine if your character jumped or if you fell. And again, using a word like """easy""" is entirely subjective fluff. How easy or difficult something is for you does not really matter to the conversation.
>>741656575You are objectively wrong and you are the reason for the decline in quality of video games
>>741667703I've played DKC2 to death and I never used it. I only figured the mechanic in DKC3.DKC3 is the one that expects you to do that, once, and pretty early on for a bonus barrel. As far as I remember. >t. felt cool figuring out the roll water bounce with kiddy as a kid
>"Some platformers have a feature coyote time, which is a grace period after leaving the ground when the player's jump will still work. This is aesthetic deception because it's reasonable to infer that the character can only perform an initial jump when grounded. The reason few people care about this trick is that it works in the player's favor. At least superficially. In the long run this may actually harm players because if they want to master the mechanics, they can't trust their senses to detect the last moment before a jump becomes impossible.">"While the level design might never necessitate the the use of coyote time, mastery over such games will require an internalized knowledge of coyote time rather than just engaging with the visuals.">"Not only does this add an unnecessary element of memorization, but it's also a self defeating way of alleviating frustration because if every platformer adopts coyote time,k then players will begin to expect it, meaning they might intentionally wait until they're off platforms to jump and thus sometimes miss the coyote window, leaving us with the same frustration, only with less reliable visuals."
>>741671927He's right, if your diet is good your shits come out easily and leave very little residuet. guy who just did a shit, toilet paper was unmarked at the third square
>>741669987That's rewarding the player for skillfull play, you can still engage with the game at a lower skill level and receive less rewards.
>>741655518It only works out of a roll in DKC.
I've heard people say this is a recent phenomenon, but I know I've encountered it in all sorts of games even if I don't remember which ones specifically. DKC obviously, as has been mentioned, even though it's only off Diddy's cartwheel in that case.What are some other examples of older games doing this?
>>741654919I wrote a big thing on this the last time and your gay fucking thread got deleted for having Matthewmitosis literally in the OP. Faggot."Aesthetic dishonesty" would imply that this is some trick. That, in truth, there was no challenge or risk. You could simply walk of the ledge, over the spikes- and you would float over them, never to actually fall in. The game is just providing the appearance of a pit in order to trick you into jumping and reacting like there is any danger.This is fucking Celeste, so as far as tranny games go it still expects you to make those jumps.Coyote time isn't "dishonest", it's a natural response to the fact that the game is CODED by a COMPUTER. You are not playing as fucking Mario in a hyperrealistic 1:1 universe simulation. You are playing a fucking SQUARE with a sprite on top of it. The real dishonesty comes from the fact that you, as a player, do not know where this square ends or begins, really. And if you were to walk off a fucking ledge, and the game processes this, and you're falling off the fucking ledge- and .200 seconds later, it's showing it on the TV, and .500 seconds later, you're fucking reacting to it, you'd think the game was shit because you thought you were on the fucking platform. Your fucking DICK is NOT fucking plugged into the fucking NES with the super Bowser bussy autoblow, so you CAN'T react to this shit faster than a shitty 500 byte processor. Dumbfuck.
It's better to have the player feel like they timed the jump well rather than feel like they've been cheated.
>>741672351>Right because its very difficult to run of a ledge and input a jump, then visually determine if your character jumped or if you fellReminder that we want to know HOW LONG coyote time stays active. You either jumped or fell. Can you now tell me how long?
>>741663630>whenever coyote hovers over a ledge he always falls downIt's a dishonest term then.
>>741673013As I have addressed when discussing potential wait times between a grounded jump and an air jump, no rational person is expecting the game to give them frame data for this sort of thing. We have a very similar set of visual cues which inform us of the timing for both however.For the timing of an air jump after a grounded one, we look for the end of the initial jump animation and we look for if we are on the ground or not. If we are both: not in an animation, and also in the air, its safe to assume we will be able to air jump, or air jump very soon (there is still a potential for extra end lag after the grounded jump).For the timing of Coyote time, we look for the moment we have ran off a platform. If we have just ran off a platform, it is safe to assume we will be able to still input a jump if we are quick.So no, I can't tell you how long coyote time lasts for specifically in any given game. Just like you probably can't tell me the frame data for air jumps and other tech in a game. But that doesn't mean that the timing is a complete mystery that you will never be able to figure out.
>>741667703DKC autist here. This is misinformation. It is only ever required in Screech's Sprint (last level) to beat the game. I think Fiery Furnance require it but it's a Special World level. Otherwise, it's only used for secrets and bonuses.
Attention all game devs and would-be game devs in this thread: If you disagree with or have negative thoughts regarding the OP image, please give up on making games.Disagreement with the OP image (except in very specific types of platform games like a replica or rage game) is a major red flag that you do not inherently understand good game design.>>741670491Also good game design.>>741664653All cases are good game design.
>>741654919>game is programmed with defined rules set>game tells you and demonstrates what those specific rules are>"The game is being dishonest because it's not following the different set of rules I have decided to believe."
>>741673613You're misinterpreting the meaning of "expects." If it puts an O or an N over a ledge with a trail of bananas leading to it, yes, it EXPECTS you to use it.
>>741673613>it's only used for secrets and bonuses....which the game keeps track of, and expects players to eventually accomplish for 100% completion.
>>741654919I'm not calling an air hike "coyote time".
>>741674039How does the game demonstrate that coyote time is a thing and the amount of time it gives you to jump?
>>741671597the same could be said for rolling being completely invincible but I agree that's pretty bad too and honestly one of the main problems with modern action games
>>741656575 "awe man wy did I die? I pressed jump when I was three feet past the ledge."and now faggot devs feel inclined allow you to jump after you have airwalked 80% across the cliff
>>741674276By you walking off a ledge and jumping late.
>>741674308>and now faggot devs feel inclined allow you to jump after you have airwalked 80% across the cliffLet me guess, kaizo NEET, speedrun troon, or Touhou autist?
>>7416646531 only. I grew up and still play platformers. Even in games where I recognized a sort of "leniency" with jump times, I would still not use it. Simple as.
"Coyote time" became much more important once we started using bluetooth controllers, windows compositors and LCD monitors. You could reasonably expect gamers to press A when mario was 1 pixel from death on a CRT, but not when the player is seeing 3 frames into the past. So a little bit of "slop" in the jump code makes a game a LOT less frustrating.
>>741674276The thing your dumbass isn't understanding. Probably because some retard made it so you could adjust it in the "Accessibility" options is that you aren't meant to know the time or that it exists. It's a hidden thing solely to cover up input lag. You're seeing Coyote Time as a real, active mechanic you engage with rather than something to cover for delays in inputs being sent out. You aren't meant to be actively aware it exists, how long it lasts, nor planning around it's existence.
>>741655471brain damaged retard.
>>741655250>This is why Mega Man is betterAir-dash + jump followed by double jump and then wall humping... yes.
>>741674634Truth nukeDKC makes it a core movement mechanic by letting you have infinite coyote time via roll jumps
>>741664784The latter can't be traced back to a contrived "videoessayist".
>add grace period to jumps>start making jump gaps that require you to abuse said grace period to cover more distance
>>741674604Weird how precision platformers got their kickstart in the same generation that brought us input lag and mobile game touch screen controls.
>>741654919Pretty sure Sakurai had a video on this too
>>741674805DKC roll jump is intentional by the player, coyote jump is to help retards with bad reaction time. DKC lets you fall to your death if you miss time a normal jump.
>>741673517>For the timing of an air jump after a grounded one, we look for the end of the initial jump animationAlready too complicated. You spam jump. You will at some point do an air jump. There is your timing. You can get it the moment you load into a level. If you for some reason want to minimize the time between ground and air jump in the future you spam the jump button. So yeah, I could actually tell you the delay between ground and air jumps quite easily. This is also pretty useless information.>If we have just ran off a platform, it is safe to assume we will be able to still input a jump if we are quick.But what if I don't want to be too quick because that's more optimal? I want to know how much longer I can delay a jump input to get maximum distance. Without coyote time I can just look at the platform. That's the point. Give me a visual showing me when I can still jump.
>>741674389The character didn't jump. Does that mean there is no coyote time? Or did I input too late? If so how much too late?
>>741674157.....so....it doesn't.....expect it.....for....game.....completion......?
>>741675101>You spam jumpThis method SUCKS. Big time.
>>741675327QRD?
>>741655025Yathzee explained this ages ago
>>741675374With some variations, the game has normal and high jumps. For normal jumps, just hold down the jump button. For high jumps, double tap and hold jump VERY FAST. Most the time when you try and high jump you just end up with a regular jump, except it's not even a full normal jump since you weren't holding down the button the first time. You wind up doing some weak spin jump instead. Unless you're Wolverine. He don't like spinning.
>>741675630Doesn't sound like the game has a double jump then. does it?
>>741654919I don't feel like it's dishonest because you will learn of it extremely early on in your playthrough, sure you might die once or twice before figuring it out, but trial and error is natural in learning a new game."aesthetic dishonesty" doesn't matter as much as mechanical consistency. If you can beat down a flimsy door in one instance, you should be able to do it in all. If you can set one flammable thing on fire, then it makes sense that all flammable objects should be ignitable. Creating a good game is not about conforming to reality, it's about making your mechanics consistent able to interact with one another in expected and logical ways.
>>741675182>Did I input too late>If so, how much too lateI dunno, why are you asking me?>I walked off a ledge and pressed jump but didn't jump, does that mean there isn't coyote time?I dunno, why are you asking me?We're talking about observable phenomenon here. If you come up with a rhetorical scenario like, "I fucked up and didn't perform the tasks required to reproduce this phenomenon correctly and didn't see it", this doesn't give me any insight whatsoever.You're asking me, "I can't smell my own farts, so does that mean they don't smell? How bad would they smell if I could?"
>>741672854/thread
>>741674959>Weird how precision platformers got their kickstart in the same generation that brought us input lag and mobile game touch screen controls.I think the precision platformer really started with the Super Mario Bros (and Super Mario World?) hacks of the mid 2000's, which inspired stuff like I Wanna be The Guy and VVVVVV. A lot of people were still using CRT's at this point, even though HDTV's and early LCD computer monitors were starting to gain a lot of traction. But yeah, they really started to become a thing during the worst years of LCD monitors with piss poor viewing angles and nasty response times.
The only people seething about this are posers who don't even play these games seriously. Do not get fooled by shitters, especially on /v/. The same board that will parrot shitposts about celeste or kaizo mario romhacks while seething. They are shitters
>>741676008>"I fucked up and didn't perform the tasks required to reproduce this phenomenon correctly and didn't see it",By you walking off a ledge and jumping late? Just did what you told me to.
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edge, since its obvious what you were trying to doThat's why I use aimbot in every shooter I play.It was obvious I wanted to kill my opponent before he kills me, so it doesn't count as cheating anyways.
>>741675101>You spam jump. You will at some point do an air jump. There is your timing. You can get it the moment you load into a level.You're proving my point though because by spamming jump you will also figure out coyote time. And you can do it the very first gap you encounter.>But what if I don't want to be too quick because that's more optimal?You aren't going to know the limits of anything in a game until you test it first. You wont know your maximum jump distance, and all the nuances of momentum and fall speed on your first jump. It will take a bit to learn it. Same thing for timing your jumps, with or without coyote time.>Give me a visual showing me when I can still jump.Honestly this I agree with you on. Couldn't hurt to have some explanation in game somewhere, even if you have to dig for it a bit. I think an exact visual diagram with like frame data and precise pixel distance is going overboard, but I am all for giving more information to players. However, I think a lot of games use this to cover up for input lag and to make the game a bit friendly to mistakes. I don't think in those cases its really necessary to have that all laid out for the player. Its the difference between "This is a core mechanic we expect players to utilize" and "Its something that helps the game play better".
>>741676294Yeah. And it's your job, if you're such a little faggot about it, to repeatedly try this experiment and record the hard-numbers if you want them.Look, I'll give you a better example of what you're talking about.Do you know the exact pixel height Mario jumps in the original Super Mario Bros.?Do you know the exact millisecond timing before Mario starts gaining downwards velocity?How long, if you were to hold A the whole time, would it take for Mario to jump, then come back down?If you can't tell me each of those exactly off the top of your head- assuming you've played Super Mario Bros.- Then this whole thing is just a wash.
>>741658784It's not double jumping. In this game the hair changes color when you use your double jump. It's the initial first jump. Coyote time is an extendable window of performing that first jump even when no terrain exists to jump off of as a player input lenience window.
>>741676571>Do you know the exact pixel height Mario jumps in the original Super Mario Bros.?66 pixels>Do you know the exact millisecond timing before Mario starts gaining downwards velocity?Standing -> 32 framesWalking/Running -> 35 frames>Do you know the exact millisecond timing before Mario starts gaining downwards velocity?Standing -> 54 framesWalking/Running -> 58 frames
>>7416771263rd one I meant for entire jump time.
>>741654919Matt's latest video is probably the least interesting video he's ever done and shows he's now in his fart huffing phase of creating things>Game hitboxes aren't 100% accurateUm.. yeah? And no one says or thinks they are. It's just something people get used to. He says he's gotten more open minded since making a game but there's a thin line between open mindedness and being a complete malleable retarded, but he will never realize that since all his fans circlejerk every word out of his mouth and he never reads comments
>>741677572It's dishonest.
>>741656950BBCF has fairly lenient inputs and id the best fighting game of all time.
>>741655471Coyote time is a specific grace period after walking off a ledge for players with terrible reaction time. Usually it lasts only a few frames and it counts as your initial jump. Double jump grants you an extra mid-air jump at any time, even after an initial ground jump.
>>741677572Do you interpret all new ideas as personal attacks?
>>741656575It's a platformer. The root of the "gameplay" is timing your movement and jumps to move safely from one place to another. If you want the player to be able to land all the jumps without fail, then there should either not be a gap in the first place, or the jumping should be automatic when the player moves off an edge. Even with the coyote region, all the dev is accomplishing is moving a goalpost. Now the player is trained to know that they can move N pixels off an edge and still jump, so they'll count on that. Except sometimes they'll try it at N+1 and fall, and now you're back to square one. Or tile one, I should perhaps say, hmm? Haha :)
>>741655471Tranny you probably never watched cartoons, it's the time it takes the Coyote to realize he is floating in the air before falling off a clift>Celeste is still a shitty pretentious tranny game not worth anybody's timeYes, but the mechanic is well described this way, and it has been used in countless other platforming games
>>741676541>You're proving my point though because by spamming jump you will also figure out coyote timeExistence yes, but not the actual timing. I want to maximize it. Spamming will not help with that.>You aren't going to know the limits of anything in a game until you test it firstBut you do know that jumping as late as possible let's you jump further away from the platform. This is so intuitive the average Joe will try to jump right at the edge of the platform. He can see exactly where that is, still probably fail at that more often than not and a bit of sneaky coyote time will keep him from getting frustrated. A good player doesn't need it but now has to be aware of some arbitrary timer if they want to master the game. This is why I would agree that it's aesthetic deception.
>>741678062You should play more games if you think this is a new idea
>Orson Welles tried to warn us about dishonest filmmaking>Gets ridiculed>Matt tries to warn us about dishonest gamemaking>Gets ridiculedGenius is seldom appreciated in its time
>>741679408We're appreciating it right now.
>>741679408thank god he has you to sniff and savor his farts
>>741657468all frame perfect execution does in most circumstances is raise the skill floor for no reason, Sorry you feel the need to prove your worth with fiddly mechanics that add nothing to the experience
>>741657903>doing it 100 or 200 timesThere's no argument to say that's not a proof of skill. In fact, consistency is a bigger proof of skill than just beating a challenge under pressure, which is something you'll accomplish eventually no matter what.
While technically aesthetic deception, mechanics like coyote time and i-frames are needed because video games are simply not a very truthful medium by their very nature. Being able to phase through attacks is dumb, but its meant to be an abstraction of a perfectly timed dodge. If I'm jumping off a ledge in real life, I will have much more control over where my feet are at every moment, whilst in a video game one foot might be slightly off the platform. So a lack of coyote time is also a form of aesthetic deception.And Matt's argument against this would likely be "video game mechanics don't need to be realistic its more important that they're consistent and honest" but the problem of realism will always rear its ugly head, because human senses are naturally attuned to stuff making "sense" in a realistic way, or rather what we perceive as realism.
>>741656938This, just make the physics hitbox bigger than the hurt one.
>>741654919CELESTE IS A LIAR AND A THIEF LIKE NIXON AND A PIG
>>741654919that's just how trans women jump
>>741663115Some zoomer who wanted to make their version of "hammer space" without understanding it's origin.
>good game design is now dishonest>old games with the same exact mechanics are good though, because I played them for 15 minutes and don't understand how they work
You ever think that hinging on the words of ecelebs who suck at video games and only play garbage is maybe not a good idea? These people are just more normalfag palatable digibro equivalents. They don't play games, they like thinking and talking about games, or more accurately a simulacrum of games they've fabricated in their heads more equivalent to reading tea leaves and stargazing. All of these analysis sound the same, they use the same buzzword, the same cadence, it's all an algorithm driven formula to grab your attention and fill your head with nothing. It's like eating Chinese takeout and feeling hungry 30 minutes later.
That was about as insightful as his last two game design concept videos. Pointless shower thoughts in essay form. Just make your video game, faggot.
>>741685569He just released his video game this year
>>741656575It's unnecessary if you've tuned your level design correctly. Early levels subtly require less extreme jumps, meaning players can get in their thousand repetitions of practice without having to run up to the edge first. By the time they reach the pixel-perfect jumps, they're good enough to handle them.
>>741685624Logic Bombs was last year.
>>741679408>Orson Welles tried to warn us about dishonest filmmakinghe made an entire film about how authenticity is overrated and how art is a constructed illusion and all that matters is whether it achieves its task of stirring emotion
>>741656950i'd also argue that part of the problem is that combos or other mechanical expression doesn't really scale up with the easier execution. i mean, ggst straight up removed certain gatlings and also shot combos again in the latest patch.
>>741656950probably the most midwit opinion of all time
>>741656950MvC2 is the product of lenient inputs and as a result is one of the highest execution fighting games of all time, despite having literal dial-a-combos. It's not that simple. Lenient inputs can raise the skill ceiling. An important part of execution is that when you're doing something difficult it should look cool. The crux of difficulty should be awkwardly jumping over a giant spike hit box with pixel precision without the aid of visual indicators in IWBTG. That just looks like a normal jump. It looks retarded. If the hitbox was smaller it would look the same. Shmups do this all the time. Smaller player ship and bullet hitboxes enables more complex patterns and more screen space to work with. The same is true of platformers, and if you look at something like Strawberry Jam, well, the mechanics of the game can be pushed very far, similiarly to SMW kaizo, which heavily influenced the game, as the devs made kaizo hacks and the fundamental mechanical features of Celeste mirror SMW.
>>741658132And you know it was some youtuber because you watched it didn't you? I on the other hand have no idea what you e-celeb obsessed losers are doing. You're just acting like fucking retards as usual.
>>741686686This. /pol/ threads are so much better
>>741686923You don't even want to talk about games, you specifically want to talk about the eceleb and will sidestep whatever video game topic they brought up in favor of discussing the eceleb.
>>741654919>>741656575Mork, is that you?
>e-celeb cock sucking general discussionKill yourselves.
>>741659225>It lies to your immediate senses since you can go off the platform and not immediately fall, sure.So it's aesthetically dishonest, the end.
>>741659225You have to be trolling with how retarded this post is.> It's not visible in the most superficial layer, but it's visible if you're paying attention to the game state over timeThat's literally explicitly discussed as exactly what aesthetic dishonesty is, having to learn to infer the gamestate from visually incorrect stimuli.
>>741663630looney tunes are the most pendejo-nigger-coded shit on the planet
>>741655471>double jump>jumps only onceDid he half-press the A button or what?
>>741657685That game exists. It's called Donkey Kong Country Returns.
>>741685462>internet shits on that one guy for being bad at cuphead TO THIS DAY>ecelebs who are significantly worse at the game get a passyeah, i agree, i don't get it.
>>741654919>Tranny game lies about mechanics>Trannies lie about their genderMakes a lot of sense.
>youtube video essayist makes 20 minute video on extremely surface level observation>now 9999 pretentious retards around the internet are talking so deeply about it because they just figured out something you could have noticed when you were 7 years old
Look man I just want an 8 hour video of him playing Bloodborne and talking about it like he did with Demons and Dark but that'll never happen
>>741689662This is actually how it works in SulfurAnd its a stat on multiple items and stacks, i thonk you can get up to about 3 seconds of free movement after you've moved off the edge of a platform
Why is everyone only mentioning old DKC when it's Retro's DKC where the jump out of a roll mechanic is used much more extensively and consistently?
>>741654919>tried to rewrite hangtime into coyote because his brain is rotted from cartoons and people that are 18 and older parrot this shit.smooth brained mouth breathers that would die if they held their breath
>>741654919>game includes coyote time but if you jump during it the game shortens your distance to match what it would've been had you jumped on the edge of the platformaesthetically honest coyote jump
>>741690994>Game auto jumps when you reach the end of the platform since you obviously meant to jump at the last moment
>>741690994>aesthetically honest coyote jumpalternatively, just make the protagonist of your game Wile E Coyote
>>741685462S2 when
>>741669474His definitin of aesthetic dishonesty is literally about sensory inputs being incorrect. The fact that they are consistently incorrect has no bearing on them being dishonest. Imagine if a fighting game charcter had a sign that that said "I'm minus" flash above their head every time they were actually plus. Sure it's consistent but it is also dishonest. The same goes for punishable moves that are actually not punishable due to pushback. This is consistent. It is also dishonest >>741660562Inconsistency covers more things. The simplest would he if a game actually had a really random dice roll untied to anything. That would be honest and inconsistent. Hell the reverse a die roll that always rolls on the same thing consistently is dishonest but consistent
>>741671838>>741671454It's funny that his first example was hit boxes but people decided to talk about Coyote time instead
>>741656659Don't make games with excessive input lag then?
>>741686686Except this entire thread is talking about game mechanics, the only exceptions are niggers like you sperging out and going>d-d-did an eceleb say this??? WHICH ECELEB AHHHH I HATE ECELEBSyou're the one bringing them up in the first place, you aesthetically dishonest cock sucker.
>>741654919Probably his most nitpicking video ever. Like holy shit unc having a melty over something so benign like being able to jump in middiar for a few frames.
It's weird to me that he focused on coyote time of all things when disjointed hitboxes and invisible walls are much more common complaints you hear from casual players all the time, he's actually talking about something that's actually a very easily understood issue (what's presented does not line up with actual gameplay) but made it weirdly autistic and niche for no real reason. I guess because coyote time isn't considered universally bad so its a gray area issue?
>>741654919hogged
>>741656575Everyone disagreeing with this anon doesn't realize that every platformer already does it. When you don't have that leeway, the game feels bad. Like some cheap flash game.(Looking at you, Eversion)These anons are going to act like all of this is new, so they can take the snobby position and act like they're better than everyone else.
>>741657214>I have to say anon I'm really impressed by the way you did it over and over and over and over and over again over about twenty minutes until you finally managed to jam it on time. that's how you master anything and that's why we find expert people in their respective fields interesting, regardless of what they do. master a violin or solving a rubik's cube, both are impressive to witness. same goes for pressing a button with a perfect timing, consistently
>>741693341Whining about things normal people dislike isn't nearly pretentious enough for retards like that. They need to complain about things that people like to feel anything.
>>741656575>classic problem in platformers of needing to jump at the edge of a platformWhat the fuck did I just read? Platforming is now considered too hard for a fucking platformer? Why have jumping or platforms at all at this point? Just have a flat surface with no enemies, so the retards can look at flashing lights for a couple of minutes at a time.Also: Kill yourself
>>741672651>DKC obviously, as has been mentioned,Not coyote time.>even though it's only off Diddy's cartwheel in that case.Not how the mechanic even works to begin with, you're such a retard
>>741693420Samefagging doesn't work when your typing style and sentence structuring is identical, you fucking dipshit.
>>741674779Not a single Mega Man game let's you do those actions in that specific sequence. Dash jumping on the ground even takes away your air dash in entries that even have one, you fucking retard
>>741693571
>>741690790This term has existed for years now, you retarded newfag.
>>741654919>aesthetic dishonesty>forced animation>qualityslopwhat else
>>741654919Indie devs still haven't evolved past 1995
>>741694461The golden era of gaming? Not the own you thought it was.
>>741694392>transcore
Meanwhile in BOTW, you can have your climbing arbitrarily disabled by the game so it can drop you a survivable distance, but say you died.
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edge, since its obvious what you were trying to doit is, especially when there are precision platformers that take advantage of this and either put traps so that even if coyote time is in place, using that instead jumping when you're still on the platform results in dying, or on the contrary make a jump completely impossible unless you intentionally use coyote time, so in both cases they still require the player to consciously press the jump button precisely when its required, not too late(voyote jump triggers, you die on the trap) and not too soon(jump off the platform without coyote time, next ledge is unreachable)
>>741654919So does Donkey kong if you roll. A Big rampaging ape is fine but god forbid a WOMAN defy physics.
>>741655471Double jumps and coyote time are not the same thing, though instead of having coyote time you can have any midair jump count as a double jump.
autism
>>741656575>It's not really an expression of skill to tap the jump frame-perfect to keep from going off the edge, since its obvious what you were trying to doJESUS FUCKING CHRIST how retarded you are.The very definition of skill is being able to DO what you mean to do. Thinking "I'm gonna make that jump" is what's NOT skill. Actually executing it perfectly is skill.
you guys know celeste didn't invent coyote time right
>trannyshit game>autshit yootoober going on about muh realism as if it's in any way desirableWhat's that line again about hoping both die?
>>741656575>Game requires edge jumping to reach platform>Add a few extra pixels to ledges>Game now requires "coyote jumping" to reach platformGreat solution very solid.
>>741697440Or maybe learning how to do a coyote jump is a mark of real skill.
>Retards confusing 30+ year old stable game mechanic they've never heard off with another basic game mechanic, vehemently arguing for its removalBan everyone for being underage or pretending to be a minor.
>>741660596
>>741654919Alright, which e-celeb claimed to have discovered this thing that has existed for ages in games.
>>741654919>peak reddit takehe's such a midwit. he will never be good like /ourguy/ anderson.
What the fuck is this eceleb garbage, kill everyone in this board.
>>741691130
>just jump whenever, bro
>>74165491985,000 views isn't a promising return for a longstanding eceleb...
>>741702497Keep in mind that DaS2 fans will be hatewatching for another 12 years
>>741654919Bros what is a good and cheap microphone to make some essayslop and pay off the bills?
>>741654919WHY DO THESE GAMES KEEP DECEIVING ME AESTHETICALLY AAAAAAAA NIGGERMAN HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>741690790Hangtime is the amount of time you spend at the apex of your jump
>>741695417dishonest argument
>>741654919>>741678175I get why it's called Coyote time, but it doesn't seem like the best name for it, considering it's not like it halts your falling momentum and you're kept in midair like in the cartoon, it's just being able to jump midair.
>>741702649You just posted it>pay off the billsNigga, go flip burgers you'll make more money
>>741702649Yeti.
>"Not only does this add an unnecessary element of memorization, but it's also a self defeating way of alleviating frustration because if every platformer adopts coyote time, then players will begin to expect it, meaning they might intentionally wait until they're off platforms to jump and thus sometimes miss the coyote window, leaving us with the same frustration, only with less reliable visuals."I genuinely don't get the problem here. Every single platformer has quirks and nuances the player is expected to pick up on to play effectively. Coyote time is just another layer of that.
>>741699795Matthew "Kula World" Matosis
>>741654919Why does this exist in a "precision" platformer though
>>741691201But that's Ralph Wolf! He has a red nose!I remember this game being pretty fun
>>741703725Matt loves to overthink and imagine things that will never happen to anyone that isn't incredibly autistic (like him).
>>741703879Because tranny designer
>>741689419they made fun of nigger and trannies thou...
>>741655482Don't aim at the sun station but at the sun's center first, then adjust trajectory. It's easier to land on the left side of the station. The timing and trajectory are the same every loop so you'll get it eventually
>>741654919still not playing trooneste:|
>>741693571>found the secret bilewater shortcut effortlessly>couldn't for the life of me figure out what to do with the pink mushroomssometimes i feel really dumb
If I make autismal video game essays will /v/ finally play the games I like?
>>741704553make it a 10 minute video
That was his best video yet. The fact it makes casual retards seethe is even better.
>coyote timei thought it was called a mid-air jump
>>741703601Burger flipping by itself leads to offhand comments about how low the wage is. Now if you combine it with this.
>>741654919why does it move like he's made of jelly
>wait 4 days to make thread about video>too late to go in the comments and call the person who created it a retardWhat was the point of this thread, I would have preferred not knowing this existed
>>741705640dishonest thread mechanic
>>741705294>thinking you will get Matt numbersLmaoNigga you'll be lucky if you get Blader numbers
>>741703725>players mistime their inputs trying to jump at the edge>introduce coyote time to make it easier>players become aware of it>players now mistime their inputs trying to jump at the end of coyote timeWe didn't solve the problem while introducing mechanical and visual inconsistencies. What did we gain?
>>741693420>Everyone disagreeing with this anon doesn't realize that every platformer already does it.What makes it even funnier is they didn't even realize that 99% of platformers do this, and that if they didn't those same people talking about how it's a measure of skill would be called them shit games because they feel "clunky" to play.This is why game developers should never, ever listen to players about these things.
>>741707058Leniency enables more challenging and complex design for the average player while layering in depth for a good player.https://youtu.be/flaEOp5cagoIt's important to understand this, because the person who made the video is very clearly not good at games. When you look at a platformer without input buffering, momentum, and lenient hitboxes you can tell it is cheaply made immediately. You can tell it plays like a flash game just by looking at it. Even an uninformed consumer can tell it looks wrong.I won't be looking up this person again and I suggest you do the same.
>>741676497You say this as if FPS games didn't introduce aim assist decades ago.
>>741655025Videogames... videogames aren't actually videogames. They're computer code. This opens a rift through which a certain dishonesty arises. A visual dishonesty.
>>741707775FPS have had aim assist since doom. Quake 3/Live, the most competitive Quake title uses hitboxes significantly larger than the player model, for aim leniency.
Does anybody actually watch and take to heart these fart-sniffing youtube essays? I literally only ever hear about these retarded things from here, and I'm pretty sure the people posting about them are doing it satirically.
>>741707747>Leniency enables more challenging and complex design for the average player while layering in depth for a good player.Leniency can be achieved while still providing a visual.
>>741708428There's plenty of clarity. A casual player already knows not to approach a spike. They don't need 1:1 accurate hitboxes and if the hitboxes must be small, that often REDUCES visual clarity by making things hard to see. Like if every bullet here was 1 pixel in size it would be fucking impossible to see this. Similiarly, there's no reason to explain input buffering, as the feedback is immediately evident and intuitive.
>>741709310>There's plenty of clarity.
>>741654919I love coyotetiming in my retroidvania roguelite!!!!!!
>>741709582>the mechanic increases clarity>It's not clear!!!
>>741709758It's compensating. It's not making it any more clear when you can still successfully jump.
>>741709951The leniency makes the ledge and the input to deal with it more in line with player expectations so you don't have to paint every ledge yellow.
>>741710253Only if you aren't aware of it.
>>741655025>all these retards itt not realizing that the buzzword is question the “aesthetic dishonesty” bs
>>741655025new troon word for being able to jump after running off a platform (not a double jump)Huge nothingburger, just filter it
>>741710458Being aware of the mechanic just layers in additional depth as it offers more ways to interact with the game, which gives good players more to interact with.
>>741710628So to compensate for the lack of clarity we modify a simple mechanic so it becomes even less clear in case you want to fully interact with it.
>>741711186We take a maximally clear visual and add leniency to elevate what's possible in level design through leniency that increases the threshold beyond what would normally become incredibly precise and frustrating. Which is turn allows for more interesting game design.
>>741709310>Like if every bullet here was 1 pixel in size it would be fucking impossible to see this.You could however provide a visual that explains that only that one pixel is dangerous. Just like some shmups show your hitbox via the design of the ship.
>>741711423Same can be achieved by making your platforms a bit wider.
>>741665198>so prepare to roll. Again and again, and again and again and again.
>>741656575thx claude
The funniest part about this video was seeing people get weirdly angry at the term "coyote time", I will make sure to incorporate this word into my gaming vocabulary more
>>741707324>>741693420Yeah you guys are right. When anons like >>741693662 or >>741693603 reply it really makes you understand why 95% of indie games fail.
>>741704250>>741703879Conservatives should never make video games.
>>741711753If you can't see the bullets if they were 1 pixel wide, what would be the advantage to adding 1 pixel wide indicators to the center of all of them, which would just make the game more visually busy and confusing? It's already obvious the hitbox is the center, and bullets are already shaped in very specific ways to intuitively represent their behavior and trajectory. I'm sure you can look at that webm and tell where all the bullets are coming from and where they are going without getting confused, even if in practice it would be difficult to dodge them. Additionally almost no ship hitbox graphic is accurate, as if it was it would be quite difficult to see, they are merely abstractions, just as the sprite itself is.
The fact that this thread about coyote time, a basic quality of life feature in platformers, has 400+ replies of arguing about whether or not its good or bad demonstrates why most games are dogshit. You people are incapable of understanding good game design. You love to complain about AAA devs but will call this "troon mechanics".I bet most of you would play the most dogshit controlling vibe coded jeet game as long as there are big titty women in it.
>>741654919Making jumps pixel perfect so that you need ground below you to jump seems like the solution that game devs should go for but anybody who played these games know they feel horrible relative to games with coyote time.
>>741712234>If you can't see the bullets if they were 1 pixel wide, what would be the advantage to adding 1 pixel wide indicators to the center of all of them, which would just make the game more visually busy and confusing?Weird premise. If I can't see the the 1 pixel anyway why would it make the game visually busy? And why would indicating what part of the bullet actually kills you be confusing? I'm not asking for pixel perfect hitboxes to be displayed but some visual indicator so players can intuit from the design that just the very center is a danger to their ship. Would that take away from the experience?
>>741654919Hey hey heyNew meme: Coyote HIMExd
>>741713963>If I can't see the the 1 pixel anyway why would it make the game visually busyFor it to meaningful exist it would have to be visible, which would clash with the already very specifically color coded bullets. CAVE games push very hard for all of their various features to occupy distinct areas of the color palette so, for example, the player shot doesn't obscure enemy bullets.>Would that take away from the experience?Yes, because then instead of a grace mechanic it becomes the central focus, and all the visual spectacle behind grazing and squeezing between bullets is gone. It's already easy to approximate where the hitbox is, and all you were ever meant to do was approximate it. That's intentional.
>>741714390>For it to meaningful exist it would have to be visibleSo not one pixel but some other kind of design.>Yes, because then instead of a grace mechanic it becomes the central focus,Then you've ruined the game for me by telling me how big and where the actual hitboxes are.
>>741683956>And Matt's argument against this would likely be "video game mechanics don't need to be realistic its more important that they're consistent and honestCoyote time is consistent and honest.
>>741714636>So not one pixel but some other kind of designLike the already existing bullet abstractions?????
>>741712742Have you considered that coyote time is dishonest and unrealistic? Ignore the fun aspect, that's for kids.
>>741714893You look at one of those those bullets and intuit that most of its area is harmless?
>>741715202Yes? And it gets even more drastic and obvious in games where bullets are clumped together like Mushi, where squeezing between bullets is something you have to do regularly, whereas in Ketsui it's a reaction to the bullets in DOJ WL being too punishing and people complaining they feel bad. Mushi is CAVE realizing being able to squeeze between bullets is actually really fun and designing a game around it and that wouldn't have happened if they didn't implement leniency in ketsui.
>>741712742Thinking quality of life is inherently a good thing is why games are shit. Most of my favorite platformers don't have coyote time.
>>741715456>Yes?Great! Then the game is actually aesthetically honest as far as bullets are concerned.
>>741664784>>741654919>>741655025ITS CALLED A GRACE PERIODGRACE IS IN THE BIBLE
>>741655025>qrd on this new buzzword, not clicking a buzzword buzzword essay
>>741715641This is only applicable to Mario because he has good physics and wide feet points. Even then, modern mario games have coyote time because they learned from past mistakes
>>741656575Sounds to me like autoaim, but for platformers. And I always turn autoaim off.
>>741716368SMW has coyote time
>>741678143you are shit at videogames tranny, go back to >>>/tv/
>>741685462You are no different, poser.
>>741656575>It is similar to how some modern fighting games will accept a number of 'slightly wrong' inputs for things like dragon-punch inputs or rollsThis has been a thing since kof98
>>741716941lul yeah right, I've seen that retard play rtype and compare it to a puzzle game, he's an idiot
>>741664653useless image, depends on the speed
>gives serious commentary and analysis on game mechanics and design>/v/: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEElol what a strange place
>>741716724>SMW has coyote timeSMW ROM hacker here: No it doesn't you retarded faggot. There are two probe points below Mario to see if he's grounded or not, similar to >>741670491. That isn't coyote time Thanks for proving to me that most people in this thread has no idea what they're talking about.
>>741655025Irish sperg is annoyed that different platformers have a different amount of 'grace time' where you can jump after falling off an edge and made a 30 minute vid about it with a retarded name.
I worked on a game where you move tile per tile and realized it felt like dogshit if you had to wait for a movement to complete before inputting the next one. But it also didn't really make sense to have some complicated buffer system shown to the player or even explain the mechanic to them so I just implemented a secret buffer of 1 action
Westroony time more like. Double jumping is not a new invention.
Bump.
>>741726567So how much money (or players if free) did your game make and did it get good reviews? Let's see if your ideology worked out. Doesn't have to be a huge success.
>>741694085This is an actual devious piece of level design
Who's better at coming up with convoluted meaningless terms, Matt or Mork?
>>741730782Unironically my first time seeing this. From context clues I guess you're supposed to just walk over it like in Mario?
>>741731514Who knows.
>>741731523Yeah. The jump arc in that TMNT game is a bit weird, so it's very easy to just fall off into the gap if you try to jump over it like any other hole, while just walking you'll clip through the ledge and continue just fine.
>come crawling back to youtube after your game bombs>the first video you upload is disliked by even your most loyal fansIt's not looking so good for the mick
>>741735341His game sold 8k copies for what took him about a year to make
>>741655471>coyote time
before this thread dies can someone give a serious tldr?
>>741654919it's called an air hike
>>741737279Should've finished working on those slope collisions.
>>741737578Something about a recent YouTube video I guess.
>>741737578Youtuber made a video about how video games tend to be approximations, or lie to the player in some way. Some detrimental (level geometry not making it clear to the player where player can stand), some beneficial (coyote time, ie. games giving you some leeway to register a jump after walking off a ledge, usually to help with input lag or making tighter jumps fairer), some annoying (invisible walls).He named the video aesthetic deception, even though verisimilitude would have described the subject better.
>>741737578hitboxes, WTF?!?!
>>741737578games have visual elements that can seem to affect or be affected by the mechanics of the game but in reality a lot make concessions, take shortcuts or are otherwise purposefully inconsistent which "lies" to the player to save the developer's time, money or to fully sell the feeling that the developer wanted players to get. This is not an inherently good or bad thing, simply a trade off that most people don't consider.
It's sad that so much of /v/'s taste revolves around shitty ecelebs who don't know what their talking about and play the normiest of games
>>741735341Why doesn't he make A Critique on RE9? That's free money and the whole script is laid out for him.
>>741745239He needs to make an EXAPUNKS review.
>>741654919>Did you know you can jump after leaving the platform>acktually it's called [retarded name]
>>741712742>I bet most of you would play the most dogshit controlling vibe coded jeet game as long as there are big titty women in it.looking at the catalog at any point in the past 15 years easily confirms this for you
>>741655025This is an ai that is trying to learn anew word. FYI you fucking retards.
>>741709310who plays these stupid-ass games kek
who cares about this stupid shit
>>741703541>>741655471>double jump>cannot, in fact, jump after jumpingRetard.
i havent played games in 15 years and even i know what coyote time is. weird. i just spend too much time on the internet.coyote time IS important in multiplayer games though because you see yourself lagging behind where you actually are on the server
>>741738685>>741737279QRD on his game? I'm guessing it's a shitty platformer with broken slopes?
>>741752756It's a logic puzzle game. I enjoyed it but it's not hard to see why it didn't have wide appeal. Especially since it gets pretty hard pretty fast.
>>741750221People who talk about games instead of playing games.Also holy shit Celeste is 8 years old
>>741663681He talks and sounds like he's influenced by Sam Harris
>>741667640>Rolljumping actually has more risk than a normal jump because you also fall faster while you're rollingdoesn't that only apply to DK's roll? pretty sure Diddy goes like straight forward and barely dips down at all.
>>741689662Early 3d art is disgusting
Coyote time is genuinely needed because of how games work. In 2d/side scrolling where you can see your character from a side on view, it's not needed as much but player skill issue just demands it there.But in 3d games? It's 100% needed. In third person games the character animations will throw off the player on where they actually are, since there's no shifting centre of mass like we have when walking, it throws people off.And in first person it's needed because you can't see the edge if you're looking and or focusing straight ahead. You'll be able to see the ledge before you get there but because games always have their own physics and movement speed, there's no way to really determine when you reach the edge once it passes under your screen without looking down.However, coyote time needs to be short as fuck. 1/8th of a physics second at most. The amount of games, especially shooters that you can exploit the coyote time in is insane, you can get to what's meant to be impossible angles and flanks by learning how lenient the coyote time is.
I'm kind of surprised i haven't seen a metroidvania just make Coyote time an actual powerup you get, like OoT's hover boots where you can walk off a ledge and float for a brief amount of time.
>>741757159Rabi-Ribi 2 looks like it's going to have something like that.
>>741663648Bro? Your fiend sealer?
>>741711856You know when people said that AI was coming for our jobs, I though they meant like office work; but now that I'm out here longposting shit the same as I've done for over fifteen years I get some namefag worshiping the cyberdong.I'll have you know I wake up very late and stay up all night to be retarded enough to argue on /v/. No LLM can match my pure and unfiltered autism and the fact some of you people can't tell the real thing from imitation says a lot about the caliber of the modern /v/irgin.
>>741757795and that's a good thing
>>741756616It depends.
>>741654919we need to make aim assist in first-person shooters illegal on a federal level.
>>741654919donkey kong country let you jump after a roll and it was kino, it felt good to execute those jumps
>>741655025>newretarded zoomer
>>741759783Amen.
>>741722331There's nothing wrong with a serious analysis of game design. Except his sucks, and we're just saying it sucks.His commentary is extremely retarded, his arguments flawed to the core, and it feels like he was just desperately trying to come up with a topic to rescue his dying channel.
>>741654919>>741656575Coyote time is a rather necessary mechanic to have in a platformer with fluid movement. The physics would feel off otherwise, though just a couple of frames should do the trick. Platformers like Cave Story where the player has less dexterity can also feel good to play, however.
>>741656950SF6 is the best Street Fighter game since Alpha thoughbeit.Try going back to 4 and see how you find those frame perfect combos.
>>741693420This. Even Mario games and Mega Man games have it. You'd have to go back to the NES to not have any leniency.
>>741657317Nta, but the problem with that usually becomes>Give short summary>"Okay but what about [thing that the video that was recommended explained]?">Have to write a longer reply to said anon to explain it>If he doesn't go "tldr leftist meme!", it usually becomes stupid arguing because said anon basically demands you to copy the explanation video's points to /v/Its stupid.In any other circles it would be laughed at. Imagine demanding people to spoonfeed you the topic they are talking about, instead of going out of your way to learn about it from the same source.>Four guys talking about some album>"Hey what are you talking about?">Oh its the new album from [band]>"Explain it to me. No, I'm not gonna waste my time listening it but I want to be part of the discussion"Fundamentally incurious person and a spoonfeed baby attitude
>>741722331What serious analysis? He didn't even touch on the basis of the mechanic - why it exists in the first place - how we percieve character speed and in-game position and how input lag interacts with it, so anything that comes afterwards is incomplete by definiton. And his thesis is that it's dishonest and that's it. Cool analysis bro. When Breadmund was talking about developing SMB he talked about how it felt bad to walljump so he added a grace period when you were still stuck to the wall even with the stick in the opposite direction, that felt better and there's that. Where's the honest platformer he was developing anyway with precise hitboxes and realistic movement where ou can't jump unless both of your character's feet are on the ground?
>>741673863One can only hope that aspiring game devs focus on content and insights from real developers, rather than waste their time looking at internet randos reacting to a non-dev's opinions on game design.
>>741693405>hurtbox
>>741664828>hbomber STILL seething after a 20 minute Matt video made him kvetch for 10 hours and will soon troon out
>>741752756It's a picross variant with minesweeping mechanics.It's pretty average on all fronts, design and execution. You can tell a vidya essayist is a hack when they try to make their own game and it suffers from the same mediocrities as independent film critic trying to make an independent film.His reasoning for why "every puzzle must have a single logically deducible solution" is also circular and the solutions are actually hard-coded into the game. Nobody has challenged him on this because his viewers are dumb. It's a moderately enjoyable game if you're a sudoku freak or something but there are flaws, namely the levels being mostly fun shapes the designer just wanted to draw. It has 200 puzzles but they're super phoned in, maybe 1 in 15 puzzles has actually cool or clever design that complements the mechanics. Not really worth the $5 unless you want to support the creator.
>>741693341focusing on coyote time is just so retardedtheres infinitely better and more thought provoking examples with practically zero silver-bullet alternative in many cases>rubberbanding escape sequences>time limits that dont actually 1:1 match real time, specially plot wise>9432423 billion cases of some scripted forced shit because actually representing it through consistent gameplay mechanics is too hard
>>741662897I'm still buying a Switch 2
>>741764192>His reasoning for why "every puzzle must have a single logically deducible solution" is also circularHow is wanting to make a deduction game without guesswork circular?
>>741764987He's talking about something Matt said in the trailer how using the rules to find a solution is a proof that only that solution exists, which you could make mathematically precise and provide formal proof of, which of course is missing from his 4 minute trailer video.
