>>741749492
They advertised the mechanic as "dozens of ways to get through a puzzle" but the reality is that there are dozens of ways to do the same solution to get through a puzzle.

>>741749492
It was fun and Zelda was very cute

The only original Zelda this side of A Link Between Worlds that's worth playing.

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>>741749492
Fun, it was okay.

I was extremely disappointed at:

Everything was diaper babby easy. They had some great mechanics to play with but they never made any truly good puzzles out of them. They got close a few times, but every single puzzle left me thinking
>god damn that was lacking. they could have done this, they could have done that

Also the diaper babby toy aesthetic got old quick. Finally a Zelda-centric role and she's completely stripped of all sexiness. All that fucking potential, from gerudo bellydancer zelda to one-piece negligee zelda, all pissed down the drain by horrendous art style.

>>741749492
At some point you realise combat is pointless and time consuming, so in the moments you are required to fight to proceed. you just ignore the enemies.

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>>741751517
We'll always have the fan art.

>>741749492
Really bad
We need ALTTP not this shit

>>741749492
The characters look like Funkopops and I heard that it was braindead easy even by Nintendo standards so I did not play it.

>shitty plastic baby toy art style from LA remake
>BotW/TotK tier "puzzles" where you just do the same shit over and over because it works
>no reason to fight anything
>feels like they realized how shit the summoning system was because they straight up just give you a Link transformation to make it feel like a traditional 2D Zelda
>absolutely forgettable soundtrack
It was trash.

Still waiting for Minister Lefte art.

>>741749492
It was alright but I didn't finish it like all the handheld zelda's except LBW.

I love 2D zelda games and i despise 3D zelda games. But i despise more that stupid ass BOTW item menu mechanic in my 2D zelda games. Fuck off and go back

Great game. One of the best use of monster collecting. got 6 crows robbing monsters like a pimp. the lynel echo does make the last dungeon a cake walk

I stopped playing after Hyrule Castle. After finishing the first dungeon, I spent a bunch of time exploring only to find out every dungeon except the first 2 were blocked until you did those. By that point the entire game became a chore of repeated encounters and puzzles. The combat sucks and the puzzles rare require doing more than placing a bed or a rising platform.

>>741749492
Its objectively:
>The closest an action game has ever gotten to being a d&d wizard
>The best idea for a pokemon game since gen 1
>pretty cute, especially with the deku, which I cant get enough of, its probably the same part of the boomer brain that gets activated by minions that activates in my brain when I see those cute little bastards.

Fun. Zelda a cute and i like the more focused linear structure. Echoes are kind of hit and miss because some are absurdly powerful like birds while the ones you think will actually wreck anything will lose that matchup or spend their entire life steering and waiting to attack. Too many copycat echoes too, like why the fuck did we need three different house plant variations? That gelatinous blob miniboss sucked ass too

>>741753253
The Lynel was a disappointment

>>741753253
Whole life strafing and waiting to attack*

>>741753282
Lmao I didn't know there was only 1 Lynel. The combat is so shit I killed him early game just spamming the spinny blades.

>>741749492
I cannot decide to buy it for $60 when Oot is around the corner now.

>>741749492
Best top down Zelda. This should be the new templet for Zelda games, both in terms of gameplay and story.

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>>741749492
I liked it quite a bit, though it wasn't perfect by any means. As much as I love ALttP I wish there were good 2D games that weren't just retreads of it. It also makes me fearful that if there's Oracle remakes they're also going to be in this godawful art style.

>>741749492
It was alright but I can't ever see myself revisiting it.

>>741749492
I like how hard it pissed off OoTsnoys when it first came out.

>>741749492
Would it kill them to make a gimmick that doesnt feel like ass

first Zelda related game I played to completion
was cute and fun
I want another one

>>741749492
Alright, though I really wish they'd stop using Lttp's general map layout.

>>741749492
I need "solve how you want to" style Zelda puzzles to die immediately.

>>741749492
Nobody would have minded they they made this the third oracle game and remade the other two games as well. All in all Echoes of Wisdom is just boring.

>>741749492
The Downfall of Zelda: Outsourcing of Wisdom.

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>>741751638
>At some point you realise combat is pointless and time consuming, so in the moments you are required to fight to proceed. you just ignore the enemies.

>>741749492
Zelda was cute, the overworld and still world were fun to explore, the dungeon were good, there's actually enemy variety, was fun fighting along side link, boss fight were great, and it was great cheesing. I like EoS more than oracle of ages, spirit tracks, tri force heroes,, and Phantom hourglass

>>741761668
which is true for Echoes of Wisdom and untrue for Tears of the Kingdom

>>741749492
The Legend of Beds: Echoes of Sleep.

>>741762117
it's true for TotK too. at some point enemies just become time wasting damage sponges and don't offer any meaningful reward except attaches for weapons that you use to fight more enemies to get more attaches for weapons that you use to fight more enemies...
it's a giant waste of time.

>>741749492
Much MUCH better than TotK.

When i played it at launch I didn't really like it, but I replayed it recently and I must have just been in a bad mood, it's an 8/10 game at least.

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>>741749492
BotW mechanics and design ruin the top-down games.
World was gorgeous.
Feels distinct from ALttP which was surprising since I thought it would just be that but expanded.
Echoes were pointless, 99% of everything could be done with beds, water blocks, or spiders.
There was never a reason to summon anything other than Sword Moblins or Darknuts, and then when you get the Lynel that makes the rest pointless.
I loved how Link was treated like a hero everyone loved and Zelda learns about that naturally.

>>741749492
It's a disgrace

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>>741751646
>Best outfit in the entire game by far because it doubles spin range.
Why even give me anything else?

>>741762430
>and then when you get the Lynel that makes the rest pointless.
You mean the last half hour of the game? Yeah...

>>741762521
You can get it significantly earlier than that if you know to follow the paths since the Lost Woods are open at any point of the game and it's just a tier 5 summon.

>>741762567
>the Lost Woods are open at any point of the game
I don't think that's true.

>>741749492
The best part of it was the 10 minutes of Link gameplay at the beginning.

>>741762603
You ca go to it as soon as you can wander the map, you just have to go through the normal entrance. If you go from above it warps you out. There's no ball for the totems though, that's story locked.

>random throw away spin off game
>has the deepest lore in the entire franchise
make it make sense

>>741762679
So if you know how to ruin the game for yourself, you can ruin it on a replay?
Okay.
I don't think that's much of a criticism

Gameplay was fun but god damn theres a lot of dialogue to skip through

>>741762781
I only got it towards the tail end but I got it before the finale. I'm saying that it's not the last 30 mintues, especially if you are exploring the map.

It's an ok game for 5 year old girls.

>>741762915
I was exploring the map and I didn't get it until the last hour or so of the game.
And by the sounds of it, you did too.
So I don't really get the critisism.

You can get the Master Sword early in the NES game too, before the first dungeon I think? I don't think that makes the game worse

>>741763010
I got it several hours prior and it completely usurped everything. The complaint here is that there is zero reason to use anyone else once you get Sword Moblin Lv.2 (Can get this immediately in the Gerudo Desert), Sword Moblin Lv.3 (Can get this immediately from the Lost Woods), Darknut Lv.3 (Can get this from a random cave if I remember right), and then Lynel. There's like 50+ monsters and they're all garbage even with the cost drops. Spamming five Sword Moblins is worse than spawning one Sword Moblin Lv.3.

>>741749492
Much better than Tears of Boredom. It was nice to finally get a real Zelda story, soundtrack, and themed dungeons again. But the game's fatal flaw is its excuse for "combat" feeling really fucking retarded. Link's swordplay works because it looks, sounds, and feels dynamic and cool.
Zelda's summoning gameplay lacks any of that flair and as a result she feels extremely passive (the tacked-on "swordfighter mode" doesn't count, that was the devs realizing halfway through how stupid their idea to remove swordplay was). The story actually does a pretty good job setting her up to be uniquely compelling while not putting down Link. But the whole game I was thinking I'd rather just play as Link and get this shit over with.
Unironically give Grezzo the keys to the next mainline Zelda instead of whatever team worked on Tears

>>741763092
Again, you said it was a problem because you can get it "too early".
I don't think knowing how to get the Master Sword before dungeon 1 makes Zelda 1 worse. Do you?

>>741763167
No, I said in my initial post the Lynel makes everything else irrelevant and then you said it's only in the last 30 minutes when it's not. That's all I was clarifying. My entire complaint is that 98% of Echoes are worthless wastes of time and there's very clearly Echoes that completely usurp and make others irrelevant as a whole.

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Cutest Zelda in a while, very cute, the two fish childhood friends are totally fucking like really disgusting breeding pig sex that they think nobody knows about.

>>741763246
Yeah, and some items outclass other items in Zelda.
I don't think you can solve this issue really. It's just what Zelda is like.

>>741763838
It's more apparent here which is the issue. Yes, the Fire Rod for all intents and purposes is the best weapon in like 98% of cases in Link's Awakening, but imagine if you got four of them throughout the game. That's how Echoes of Wisdom was with the Echoes themselves.

>>741762709
Less pressure gives more room for creativity. The entire game was built out because they were having fun using g-mod tools to drop random enemies and objects around and decided to build a game around it. Zelda's the protag mostly because she makes more sense as a summoner than Link, and they weren't about to bring back Lana from the warriors games.

>>741749492
Its stuck in an awkward place between being classic 2D Zelda and mini BotW. Lots of dungeons but they all have simple layouts and puzzles. There's a horse like the 3D games but you don't really get that much use out of it because there's too many obstacles in the way, and distances are too short. You can glide off the snow mountain with a chicken, but the map loads certain zones separately so while you are gliding it fades to black and puts you back on the ground.

I liked it but I don't want the next one to be like this.

>>741763894
So whats your solution?

>>741764570
Prevent the player from obtaining the "good" Echoes until later in the game. Just handwave it as Null corrupting them so you can't obtain their Echoes until Tri gains enough strength so that you actually use other ones.
Give benefits to summoning something like two ReDeads instead of anything that can actually attack like DoT screams that are instant once you summon them instead of them being forced to wait for them to prep the scream.
Make anything that costs 1 do at least Lv.2 damage in exchange for the dying in one hit, otherwise why even waste your time since they all have to wind up for attacks and every enemy has wide sweeps?
In general remove wind ups on summon. It would lead to more spawn spam but at this point you're already doing that for Darknuts and Lynels who don't have wind ups on summon anyway since it's faster so who cares? So many 1 and 2 cost Echoes instantly die before they even attack.
Fix the AI so anything flying doesn't whiff 90% of attacks.
Stop having huge charge times for attacks in general, the Wizrobes are basically unusable outside of fighting other Wizrobes and their damage for their cost is laughable.
Actually justify why I would use niche things like a Deku Baba over anything else. The only time those things are ever worth it is solely in the training missions when you have literally nothing else because they're slightly faster at biting and digesting enemies than summoning five Fire Keese is.
Give alternative benefits to a lot of 1 cost summons. Why does the spider charge at enemies 90% of the time? Why do I have to wait until I get a Gohma until it even survives a single hit?

So many issues would be cleared up if Moblins and Darknuts just weren't usable until endgame since you would actually be forced to use other Echoes and find something that is synergistic with others. Just look at how beds and water blocks break the entire game as well, neither should have existed as concepts.

>>741764837
>Prevent the player from obtaining the "good" Echoes until later in the game
So you want there to be less exploration in a game about exploration.

Again, I use the Master Sword as an example. Do you think NES Zelda would be better if the Master Sword wasn't obtainable before the first Dungeon?
Y/N.

>>741765326
>So you want there to be less exploration in a game about exploration.
You can still explore, you just can't obtain the strongest Echoes. They already try to limit you via the cost as you can't do 4 or 5 until past the half way point of the game even if you explored the entire map.

>>741765369
>Dodges the question
...Want to try again?

>>741765413
I didn't dodge the question, I straight up addressed you thinking this ruins the exploration. The Master Sword being obtainable early on doesn't fundamentally change the game as you still take ridiculous damage from everything and still need to progress like normal. In Echoes of Wisdom it completely removes progression as a whole when you get a Moblin because it's objectively the best option for every situation and makes everything you find irrelevant. Finding the Bombs and the Bow are actual sidegrades you will be using regularly even with the Master Sword, the only time you will ever use a Keese is if you're forced to.

>>741765503
>Asked a yes or no question
>"Answer doesn't contain a "yes" or "no".
Want to try again? It's very simple!

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>>741749492
Seeing lots of positive opinions in this thread. Can someone give me a comparison to another Zelda? I’m interested now

>>741765668
BotW

>>741765546
Why would I answer that with a "yes" or "no" when it's far more nuanced than your binary outlook on it and the games aren't comparable because they're trying to do different things and I've gone into further depth to explain that? If you absolutely want me to then no, NES Zelda would not be any better because it fundamentally doesn't change anything with the game outside of making some early games slightly easier and normalizes very quickly. EoW would heavily benefit from Moblins, Darknuts, beds, and water blocks outright not existing or being possible to obtain until right near the end of the game.

Moblins do 3x as much damage as anything else you can obtain in the game, are gotten immediately when you explore at all, and shield ones block half the attacks in the game so they survive even longer on top of it.
Darknuts survive everything but slash attacks which almost nothing does due to their armor and deals double what a Moblin does and you can just summon it after it attacks so it has no downtime between attacks.
Beds let you literally heal .5, 1, or 2 hearts per second AND function as a 2 tile item for 1 cost AND if you grab it while on top of one you can treat it as an object that stretches 2.5 blocks for 1 cost which is insanity. You can even heal during boss battles, I was sleeping in Zelda's bed during the Null fight mid-attack it's that broken.
Water Blocks make every 1 cost 1 tile item irrelevant as you can place it on anything you could place those 1 cost 1 tile items do without having the limitation of having a physical object you have to work around as you can just swim in it upward. It only ever fails in the Hebra Mountain because it freezes but you still get one second of swim time before it freezes and functions like any other 1 tile 1 cost item.

>>741765792
>Dodges the question again
If you are unable to answer me, just admit it.
I really don't get why this is so hard for you. It's a simple multiple choice question, with binary choices.

>>741751517
>Everything was diaper babby easy. They had some great mechanics to play with but they never made any truly good puzzles out of them.
The eternal curse of Nintendo post-Gamecube era

>>741765668
Well it looks, sounds, and runs like link's awakening 2019 because it's built from the same ingredients. It tries to migrate some of botw/totk's more open-ended problem solving into the classic Zelda format, which makes it comparable to ALBW (that one experimented with letting you do dungeons in any order)
Surprisingly nice lore that ties into the pre-botw games, nothing mindblowing but you learn some interesting things about the Zelda universe that could have future implications if they care enough to keep it in mind

>>741765841
>Dodges the question again
I literally gave you a "No" in the very quote you quoted and then expanded upon it. Can you not read or do you just want to argue?

>>741765907
It also improved on the Funko Pop look LAR had. They leaned more towards Miis with this one and it was far better as a result.

>>741765924
So answer the question very consisely please, just to clarify.
>Do you think NES Zelda would be better if the Master Sword wasn't obtainable before the first Dungeon?
Reply with only a "Yes" or a "No". We can move onto the nuances later.

>>741766004
Sword upgrades are tied to triforce pieces collected, which are from dungeons. Do you mean any sword at all?
I don't think you are even making a point or capable of doing so.

>>741766313
>Asked to reply with a "yes" or "no" only
>Doesn't
Why are you afraid of doing this? We can't move on until you do this.

A tier despite the horrible soi music

>>741766313
>Sword upgrades are tied to triforce pieces collected
In the NES game? No.
It's tied to heart containers. You can get enough Hearts on the overworld alone to get it before the first dungeon.

>>741765780
>>741765907
Huh. That actually sounds good. Thanks I’ll check the game

>>741749492
It was good and I hope grezzo gets to keep making more top down zeldas also while I don't hate the art style I hope they move on to a different style, maybe they should try to refine the albw look. It's also one of my favorite Zelda ost

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>>741749492
The jungle temple was good, everything else was mediocre.
>combat is extremely tedious, though you can speed it up a good amount by summoning the same monster echo over and over, because they attack the instant they are summoned, then wait a bit until the next one, immediately re-summoning after the initial attack lets you deal damage much faster
>too many overpowered movement echoes, spider, water block, yellow platform, you can skip everything, you can just ride the spider to the top of the snowy mountain which is like a late game area
>bosses require using the Link transformation, which is on a 10 sec timer, so you need to keep collecting orbs around the arena to not run out
>the fairy companion makes the game much more hand holdy than BOTW/TOTK and harkens back to the Skyward Sword era, it will comment on everything, and since there's no voce acting the game will be paused every time it says something
>again, the hand holding is pretty extreme, you literally get a tutorial on check points every single time you activate one, for the entire game, it cannot be skipped or disabled
Overall, I enjoyed the Link's Awakening remake much more. Echoes of Wisdom is just too gimmicky and handholdy like many other modern Nintendo games like the recent Yoshi one for example. 0 challenge but still hundreds of tutorials. Which would be fine if the combat was at least fun, but the combat is like pulling teeth.

>>741749492
Cringe middle of the road slop.
They wanted to get the classic crowd to like Zelda again but they incorporated the worst elements of TotK into the gameplay, which accidentally put all of that game's issues into the spotlight. Nintendo pretty much shot themselves in the foot because even the people who were on the fence hate TotK now.

it was fun. I liked exploring the map for what it was, and it had real dungeons. The story was also surprisingly good.
It has problems. Some echoes are busted and the UI is atrocious. But at least Stamp Rally was kino as fuck.

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>>741768098
>But at least Stamp Rally was kino as fuck.

It's so weird that niggas are scared of answering questions online lately.
I wonder why that is?

>>741751517
Same. Mina the hollower is what the difficulty should be. or at least, to give you such option. If you go lower you can basically just faceroll and win.

I hope they make more games with this artstyle, I really like it.
Was surprised they didn't make a Zelda Amiibo to match the Link one.

>>741749492
It was fun, but it is a make your own fun kind of way. After a while you figure out the golden 5 summons that solve everything and that kills the game.
If you play with the summons as if they are toys, there is a lot of "does this work?" type of fun, but you really have to force it yourself

>>741769476
I think this is largely true, however I had way more fun in EoW than I did in TotK.

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Bros I am having so much fun with Skyward Sword on Switch. Swinging the sword around as it follows my arm. Also Zelda is so cute here.
I heard it was super criticized on Wii back then but was it an issue with controllers or something? Like here I have to constantly point and resync. It isn’t an issue since it makes me feel like I’m keeping a stance but I assume years back this would cause a ton of issues.

>>741749492
the only zelda game I didnt finish because the summon menu was so fucking slow and gay.
fuck me for trying to get all the summons and not just use snake the whole game I guess.

>>741770217
it was okay then, you had the same pointer resetting.
what sucked is the entire second half of the game save for maybe one temple and a good final boss soundtrack.

>>741770217
Wrong thread?

>>741770217
You had to recalibrate periodically but I never had immense issues with it. Obviously with how much the tech has improved, the JoyCons are simple enough to reset. I played SSHD with motion controls and had a blast. It's a game with obvious flaws but I like the more amusement park approach it has to the zones. It's like TMC-but-in-3D.
You could take SS's sky concept and set the entire game in the sky. Like a mix of SS and TWW but with huge sky islands to explore. Basically what Tears should have been.

>>741770272
It was better than TotK's menu.
Less bloat.

>>741770217
it's definitely a fun play but
>Sky islands are empty as fuck, can't really do stuff there
>having to fight The Imprisoned and Ghirahim over and over
>the stupid sphere collection and other filler shit you have to do in every new area
>motion controls were pretty ass during release
>generally lacking in some parts that previous games figured out better

>>741770498
I'm actually not sure it is. They're both extremely bad but totk's one is atleast only on gimmick arrows and not every single action in the entire game

>>741770576
>totk's one is atleast only on gimmick arrows
You know that's not true lol.

>>741770650
okay, not really the point though. It doesnt make the game that came after its menu suddenly better given they shouldve realised just how shit the single line scroll is when its the ONLY THING YOU DO.

>>741770713
>okay, not really the point though
Yes it is. You're criticising the menus.
TotK was much much much worse for menus that EoW.
>Only thing you do
You have sorting options and a faves list you can use to help with that

>>741770852
great, you can fully pause the game and bring up a different menu.

It ruins the game and nintendo should kill themselves.

>>741770969
>Crying
>No solutions
What's your solution? Make it better than TotK.

>>741771197
>categories/folders
>random spawn by type
>actual slots for setting quick summons without pulling up an entire different gamestate
did the game promise to date you or something you white knight fag?

>>741771313
>categories
Already in the game.
>random spawn by type
Sounds like bloat. The opposite of what you wanted.
>actual slots for setting quick summons without pulling up an entire different gamestate
Favourites exist.

It's starting to sound like you didn't play the game...

>>741771380
typical nintentard; cannot handle a single criticism about a genuinely poorly made feature. Enjoy your dead thread. I quit in the ice temple when the awful menu became unusably bloated without any real solution.

>>741771520
Stop crying.
You were incorrect.

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>>741770217
>I heard it was super criticized on Wii back then but was it an issue with controllers or something?
It's a bad game across the board.
>You constantly had to sync every minute or two, and if you had the Motion Plus attachment instead of it built into the controller it was significantly worse to the point that the game every so often thought I was shield bashing for no reason even though I wasn't moving.
>Every single time you rebooted the game you got notifications for every item you picked up even if you already picked it up.
>Fi does not shut her damn mouth and goes on and on spoiling puzzles if you choose to speak with her to get her notification off screen while nonstop explaining what you just saw had happen in a cutscene even in one of the final cutscenes of the game.
By far the worst of this is the slingshot cutscene, that cutscene was what convinced me it was going to be a bad game.
>Flying on Loftwing sucks because of having to waggle to flap its wings and also fly it via the gyro which is awkward.
>The sky is completely empty. There's the bamboo island, the pumpkin island, and then the Thunderhead and that's roughly it outside of random rocks with chests on them.
>Silent Realms are horrible and take forever and feel like unnecessary padding in a game you already want to be over.
>Not one. Not two. But three Imprisoned battles for the story that are borderline the exact same fight.
>Then another SIX more in the boss gauntlet.
Then you play Hyrule Warriors and have a heart attack.
>Eldin Volcano is possibly one of the worst Zelda locations that isn't the Ages Jabu-Jabu's Belly due to all the climbing.
>You constantly go back and forth between the Thunderhead in the latter half of the game which takes forever.
>Outside of the pirate ship and Ancient Cistern the dungeons are extremely boring.
SSHD fixed some of the Fi notifications, the reboot notifications, and the waggling takes advantage of better technology but it's still bad overall.

>>741749492
I forgot it existed.

>>741770409
Oops sorry I saw it was a Zelda thread so I went on and posted
>>741770272
>>741770381
>>741770458
>>741770545
Alright fair enough. Guess I’ll see more as I progress. But so far I’m enjoying it a lot.
I dunno maybe after BOTW and TOTK having a more normal Zelda feels so good man. I do agree that the sky feels rather empty though. It had a good start showing this cast and academy but ironically there hasn’t been much here. Still feels better than the TOTK one for me with these NPCs around. This is how skies should have been than just a bunch of robots
>>741772426
Oh I see. So I guess my version had improvements. I guess I still haven’t been exposed to many of the issues to see but so far I’m loving it

>>741749492
It's insane how ALttP, an SNES game from 30 years ago, has a better item menu than EoW because for some stupid fucking reason Nintendo thought it was a good idea to remove one dimension from the item grid.

Null did nothing wrong.

>>741770217
Eh, idk, I emulated the Switch remaster (with a Pro Controller so I had gyro), and the combat is so unwieldy, you basically stand still and execute mobile game tier gestures, I only lasted until the end of the first dungeon, this stop and go gameplay flow didn't gel with me at all. The boss was especially awful, the epitome of the waggle era, just jiggle your controller to make him release the blade, over and over. Fuck this, the worst Zelda by far.