Why is /v/ unimpressed with graphical improvements?
>>742166276realism killed vidya
>>742166276neither look impressive, just different from each other
>>742166761
>>742166276Because I do not, nor have I ever, given a single fuck about graphics.
>>742166276because good gameplay, story and music are actual content while graphics are just a novelty.
>>742166913both look shit
>>742166276Focus on graphics and realism is shorthand for "we don't have any statement to make, because this game is not designed with much art in mind. It is designed to profit our investment firstly, and we thought it would be a great bullet point for marketing to add to the top of the box"If your game isn't a military simulator/shooter fps, or in some way a contemporary story it would behoove you to focus on the artistic expression through the visual design instead of simply rendering mundane objects very effectively in 4Kalso they are often optimized like shit, with a 300gb file size for 30 hours of single player gameplay, why am I phoning NASA for advanced schematics to a portable nuclear device to power the fucking sextuple core ddr8 Nvdia G1G4G00N 69420?
it's just poorfag cope
>>742167191Hah.Sextuple.
>>742166913Right truly is better
Once you experience lumen, it's hard to go back
>>742167884Yeah, right
>>742168192
>>742168267
>>742166595fpbp
>>742166913Top right image is how light works, but if the game doesn't have a dynamic night and day cycle you canand SHOULD just bake the lighting to improve performance.Middle image could just tbr the intensity of light cus we can't see if it's through a window or curtain.Bottom is retarded because both could just be different times of the day. Right image with the "better" lighting even loses complete ice detail.
>>742168192>>742168267>>742168558Lol wtf is this crap?>Buy OLED to reduce ghosting>Game does ghosting insteadlmao
>>742166276>Why is /v/ unimpressed with graphical improvements?There's always downsides. Boiling and instability, requiring reconstructions or other alternatives, notable performance spikes, etc. Like, yeah on paper the new RTGI on IdTech or the Lumen on UE are neat, but in practice games that aren't even doing anything all that special are suddenly demanding 16GB cards and higher end hardware if you want to play even 1080p above 30 FPS. I'd rather play a Mega Man Legends or Wind Waker style game that doesn't need those performance damages at that point.
>>742166276Where's that one image, black and white, 3 or 4 images tall with two guys talking and one basically argues that basically perfectly realistic art is perfectly boring?
>>742166276It's incredible how far "improvements" have come on the back of only showing static images to hide temporal flaws
>>742168192Crimson Desert does this for me and I don't know how to make it stop.
>>742169858turn off framegen and your upscalers, normally
>>742166913no light reflection off the trees that have snow on the right. yeah the tech is still shit and if it doesn't pull it off might as well remove it.
>>742166276graphical improvements that destroy frame rate is pure bullshit. Artists that forget about the fact a game needs to run are just shit artists. Especially if they aren't doing their best to make the actual assets smaller and use techniques to trick the eyes on that level of artistry.
>>742166276>graphical improvement>makes it worse>runs at 1/2 the fps that was already bad
>>742169953I've tried that and messing with settings but the lighting always looks off, specially inside interiors, as if the outside light was bleeding in, you turn around and a dark room is suddenly lit up before slowly turning dark again.
>lumen>rtx but not reallyyou tank your fps for literally nothing of value
>>742171047>sir you need the rtx sir the lumen is a donkey cheese illuminati
>>742168267if you point this out to console faggots (who never notice it themselves) they will tell you it doesn't matter, they literally don't pay attention to details like this that are right in your fucking face
Most people here are poor, go into a steam posting thread and you'll see non-dollar currencies posted
>>742171567The majority of you pc vegans are brown and running 10 series cards you fuckin peasant lmao
>>742171567Yeah and that proves the only reason they hype graphics is for their brandcuck wars.
>>742171871I've been gaming in 4k since 2016 it's hard not to notice this shit on a 72" OLED you nigger
>>742171567It doesn't happen with DLSS, and PSSR on consoles is almost just as good
>>742172462Yeah I'm sure everyone has a ps5 pro
>>742171871Who cares what poors and average nobodies do? Only people who care belong in those categories themselves.Most people in the world are also niggers so I suppose you're one, or at least an angloid mystery meat since everyone else just calls them niggers instead of "brown"Also niggers dissappear from my games when I disable Playstation crossplay for some reason lmao
>>742172549It's like 2 or 3 years old now, yeah
>>742172603kek
>>742170246Nothing you can do, that's just how the game RT works
>>742166276because I prefer stylized graphics with good artistic direction and visual design instead of hyper realismfor example look at Dishonored or Banquet for Foolsalso gameplay is king
>>742172603Your mother is +10 times older so can we extrapolate that to mean everyone's had a go at her?
>>742166276>>742166913Shame about ghosting
>>742172975RDNA3fags really hate the playstation 5 pro kek
>>742166913left images = soul
>>742168267>we went from screenspace reflections to screenspace lighting
>>742168192I notice this in literally every single UE5 game I have ever tried playing
>>742173124lmao funny when you put it that way, and so true
>>742168837That's not how ice looks, macaco
>>742173191the left ice picture looks cooler though
>>742168192Ghosting also appears when you're not moving. It's not that noticeable here due to the compression, but at it's original res is quite noticeable
>>742172462This does happen with DLSS. And even DLAA.These aren't upscaling artifacts, these are lumen artifacts.
Because you don't make anything appealing enough to look at.No, I don't give a shit how your horses balls shine.
>>742166276left side looks better
>>742173275But DLSS magic fixes everything
>>742173325It actually makes it worse.UE5 is that bad of an engine.
>>742169858Have you tried not playing shit games? Food for thot.
>>742166595>Wah wah im 40 and still watch cartoons
>>742172721>Tumblrslop
>>742173416You're the reason why is dyingGo suck a kike dick nigger and btw it will happen to you
>>742173275Wrong, those are upscaling reconstruction downsampling artifacts, not inherently lumen related
>>742173416>this kills the nigger jew
>>742166276Is that an actual game? I like the atmosphere.
>>742173482shut the fuck up, retard
>>742169953That's not upscaling behavior, as those don't leave ghosting trails. They blur what's actually in motion frame by frame. It's also not framegen, as that halfasses a frame in between real ones, leading to weird not-objects. Try having a high end GPU before entering the chat. That's the lighting engine. It's not unique to Unreal/Lumen.
>>742166595/thread
>>742173517>anomaly in stalkerOk, and...?
>>742173572are you genuinely retarded?>>742168558>>742168267
>>742173593Are you genuinely humourless?
Ok, show of hands, who'd rather play whatever shit op posted vs this and why
>>742173617I've seen way too many people unironically defending this piece of shit of a sequel not to take it seriously
>>742168954It's software Lumen or just a shitty GPU. I've never had ghosting that bad.
>>742173517>hohol_gigablyat_slavjank_tech_showcase.mp3
>>742173664It's better.>no turrets>bombs only once>not being a loner like some faggot anon who hates the game>Miranda>better soundtrack
>>742173796>got btfo by me posting an actual screenshot>keeps posting that youtube screencapYou girls just don't learn.
>>742167884I had bad ghosting when playing MSII demo. I'll take my "dogshit" lighting and no ghosting every day over the eyesore of ghosting
>>742166276crimson desert has really good graphics
>>742168192you didn't post the updated one
>>742166276Graphical improvements used to be revolutions, peak graphics were reached around 2015, not a single game today is vastly graphically superior to Dying Light or Dishonored 2. And the more time passes, the less art direction there is, instead everything is realism slop where you'll see every pore of a negro's skin. And those big graphics are coded by indians, so every game runs like shit. Trust in vidya releases is at an all time low, chuds basically do not buy any game that comes out at this point because there is so little chance of any game being better than any classic from 10/15 years ago that does the same thing but better.
>>742173060This kills the Lumen
Ray tracing is supposed to remove noisy screen space shit but Lumen manages to add more visual noise, incredibly.
>>742166913You got anything better than barrels and world of warcraft?
>>742174708Last time you admitted these are custom ini changes
The regression in visual quality from temporal AA and low rate dynamic lighting has fucked up video game graphics so bad that games from 15 years ago unequivocally look better.
>>742166276I do not care about getting slightly improved light reflections if it costs me 50% of my FPS.
>>742166276Same image
>>742174947What difference does that make?
>>742166276ye that looks dogass, can you make it look like this instead?
>>742175139To zoomers, editing an INI is arcane technology. You have to know what a "file" is, and that's not bussin frfr ong no cap.
>>742166913nigger
>>742174851Ray tracing creates noise because not enough samples are calculated in the render process. In Blender, I usually do 3000-8000 samples to cut the noise, which increases my render time dramatically. Realtime ray tracing doesn't have that luxury, because we don't have the tech to do that quickly. So the noise will always be created by the process, and postprocessing filters are applied to blur the noise into gradients.
>>742175252unc be mad but he right fr
>>742166276It always bothered me how emissives in modern games just look like a post-process filter, not really taking into account the 3d environment. Lumen 'tries' to work around it, but it lacks the resolution to make any notable impacts beyond large light sources such as the scene's sun. It wasn't until playing C2077 with path tracing on did I notice just how much more proper emissives add to a scene.
>>742175762>single colored bisexual lighting scene>THIS is how games are supposed to look like!!!
>>742175762Whoa. Purple and greasy. Path tracing truly is amazing, as you can't do that without.
>Technology which makes everything look like noisy UEslopI'll pass actually
>>742173416
>>742175862I didn't care about the colour, I was talking about the emissive light sources having actual fucking depth to them.
>>742166276diminishing returns and we hit the wall a long time ago.
>>742175914cope
>>742176174>purple lights>greasyPath tracing is amazing.
>>742175914>and greasyAnyone know what's up with this? Indy suffers it also in path tracing, notably on character skin. Is it just lack of rays per pixel and the denoiser just smudges detail together?
>>742176323That's not what I'm referring to. I mean just the overuse of reflection on surfaces that normally shouldn't be that reflective, as if someone took a glazed ham and rubbed it on everything.
>>742176174>>742176416>pt off looks bad in a pt sponsored gamehmm i wonder why
>>742176416Top looks better. Not sure which is supposed to be which.
I prefer my path traced games to have lolis.
>>742176478PT came out nearly 3 years after the release of the game
>>742176560I literally cant tell whats going on there. I thought pathing tracing was supposed to fix lighting
>>742175960this nigga is impressed by boids in the big 2026 kekw
>>742176586>tech companies and globalist kikes only think in the short termlol
The last time I was impressed with graphics was some GTA 4 mod that had reflections on cars and whatnot. The shit like OP pic only confuses me as to which one is supposed to look better, becuase on closer inspection each has some nice details that the other lacks, but ultimately I don't think that I'd notice the difference in game, or particularly care about it. This kind of stuff is cool to see for the first time, but after a while it sort of fades into background and you might as well be playing with PS2 tier grafix.
>>742176478i remember playing the game and not-rt mode looking good with rt looking better, now rt looks terrible while pathtracing looks 'solid'these comparisons are always funny because when you disable raytracing, there is no back up AO, so everything can and will look like utter dog shit, worse than games of ye olde where pre-baked AO was available and could be used dynamically, or fuck, ones that also had non-sloptracing AO systemsonce cdprojekt comes up with fagtracing v 6.9, they'll put it on cyberpunk, and then pathtracing will look like dog water cause it'll be missing features
modern graphics tech isn't about looking better, its about cost reduction. fewer graphics programmers needing fewer special knowledge tricks, and just offload things onto the players computer (ray tracing)
>>742168192>>742173517lumen has a lot of shitty aspec but stalker is one of the best example on how to not use correctly lumen. its more that they did a shit job rather than lumen is just trash idk who the fuck they hired but they need a good lighting artist because it's really poorly made
>>742166276/v/'s largely Nintendo fanboys.
>>742176416I've had quite a few moments in Cyberpunk with PT on where I went "Oh, we already broke the 'better looking than PS3-era FMVs' visual barrier">>742176540Top is path-traced, bottom is regular RT shadows.
>>742172307>LinuxYou don't game
realism is a psyop to get rid of art direction in the name of hiring more pajeets to do realistic 3d models
>>742176976Why does it rearrange the rocks?
>>742176976>surfaces with generative elements to add detail, aka the hex flooring>for whatever reason the game doesn't use a fixed seed so it generates the same pattern every timeHonestly don't know why Crimson Desert didn't just use baked lighting for interiors so it'd look consistently better across hardware specs.
>>742176976>colour on>colour offwow
>just want 1080p/120fps games that look good enoughi never needed more than this
>>742177046They just move around mysteriously.
>>742177326>lamp model wasnt even loaded fullythe hell?
>>742177079It is kinda weird since RR is so new but the game was in development for such a long time. The lighting is just broken and kinda shit without RR.
I really like nanite, it feels like the generational leap I was expecting of the PS5 gen. Lighting gimmicks don't do shit because devs don't do anything with dynamic lighting these days so you can't even notice the change
>>742177435I don't know why you'd add RR before adding a basic SSAO to the default renderer.
>>742177079how do you do that in a seamless massive open world with dynamic weather and time of day
>>742177645not him but there are those volume things other games with GI use. were they called light propagation volumes? basically spheres with their own bounced lights, you would just place those over the houses.but yeah, too much work for this agme
>>742166276how does lumen look worse
>everything I can't run on my GTX 1070 is bad waaaaaaaaaaaago back to console poorfags
>>742177927I wouldn't be against support of 10 series cards if they had fucking async compute, which AMD did that same card generation.
>>742173241nah it looks gayergay ice
>>742177046Probably randomly generated clutter, like grass.
>>742166276I'd be impressed if ray tracing didn't use 10x the power for slightly better lighting.
PT on/off
>>742168837>if the game doesn't have a dynamic night and day cycle you canand SHOULD just bake the lighting to improve performance.You just KNOW devs are using it for the sake of it and because they are lazy as hell.
pt on off
>>742172307>Wayland
It just doesn't matter. Art style is way more impactful.You spend thousands to run a new game, with all the bells and whistles, to what, look at it on a 27 inch monitor? So you hook it up to your big TV, I have a great one of those and it looks very impressive on that, such high visual fidelity. You literally sit their in mild awe for all of 30 seconds. That's it. That's what it's worth. 30 seconds of being mildly impressed. Then you play the game and totally fucking forget about the visuals unless they're badly designed and make it hard to play the game. You play the game and you realise it's absolutely dogshit and all the design budget went on pushing the gfx to help push gfx cards.None of my favourite games are my favourites because of their impressive graphics. As long as they're good enough to be serviceable or enjoyable as an art style or immersive as an experience, having 'accurate' lighting or marginally more fancy shadows is not worth a single fuck to me.I pray that when we shortly reach total photo realism that game designers actually have the good sense to start learning how to make good games again.
>>742178602PT is mostly a band-aid for that game's shortcomings. Even GTA5 had better NPC lighting in the world and made use of baked lighting in spots where it would work for most lighting situations.
>>742166276All attempts at realism look always worseMake games look like games already
>>742178814PT looks better. PT OFF is the band aid retard
>>742166276Because we already had Crysis in 2007. Graphics didn't get much better, but now demand insane hardware.
raster lighting ps4 technology on
>>742166276Because you can achieve right with higher fps but it requires more effort from the devs
Lumen still looks better in "muh stylized artsy" games
>>742180513I just hate how everything with lumen lacks contrast.
>>742174709>And the more time passes, the less art direction there is, instead everything is realism slop where you'll see every pore of a negro's skinSeriously, this shit needs to stop. But the average goylem loves it because it's just like their pedowood movies.
Some of us grew up witnessing the change from SNES to PS2 in 10 years, so these tiny improvements barely register in comparison to the change we used to see.
>>742166276Lets say I don't play vidya for the Screenshot mode and most of the recent graphical improvements are made for still images
>>742166276There is zero need for graphical fidelity for a game to be a 10/10.
>>742170246>>742169858you need ray reconstruction on
>>742179617Playing TLOU2 really made me think what the fuck is the point of gay tracing when raster looks like this. Stellar lighting, shadows, reflections - everything. Nvidia is pulling a scam on us. Graphics would probably look better if ray tracing cores were never introduced.
>>742181343Get an HDR monitor nigger.
>>742182590there should be 2 use cases of ray tracing>game development, to allow for faster light preview and faster light baking>open world games, to fill in the gaps from inaccurate lighting due to different weather and day cycle conditionsAnything else is questionable. Linear games don't need ray tracing. Maybe if they really want accurate reflections, since SSR is generally shit.
How about you hire some artists and make the game look nice yourself instead of hoping GPU tech will do the job for you (By making your game look exactly the same as every other UE game)
>>742166276It's not an improvement if it's an accumulative effect spread over 5 seconds. That's just offline rendering with extra steps, and Lumen doesn't come close to Octane etc. at all.>>742166913Now show a comparison with scenes that use lightmaps and planar reflections.
>>742181852I actually don't mind ugly characters. It can give variety to a game. But most games that have ugly characters make all their characters ugly in the same way, eliminating the possible variety from the ugliness>>742166276Honestly, the takeaway from comparisons between various effects being on and off itt is that those effects change the style and aesthetics of the game. Graphical fidelity on its own literally doesn't matter at all. Like >>742166761 says, they're just different. But if the developers intend for one aesthetics / style, and the effect changes that into a different one, you won't get the experience the devs intended. And if the devs are retarded and just think hyper pseudo-realism will solve their style problems, well they're just retarded and it won't; the game's style will just be a hyper pseudo-realistic style and not be as potentially memorable and salient as it could have been with a different style
>>742184252That's expensive. We need to churn out slop as fast as possible and pocket the profits for the people who don't actually make the games.
>>742180513i can't tell which is whichboth look like shit missing ambient occlusionalso this is just realistic graphics
>>742185031>Now show a comparison with scenes that use lightmaps and planar reflections.
>>742166276>graphical improvements?because videogames 20 years ago already had those "improvements", the only difference is that before every had a custom engine that could do this neat stuff and so each game looked different, and now you have UE5 in all videogames so they all look the same
ray tracing/path tracing/ray reconstructionall of it can produce 'realistic' lighting but it relies so heavily on upscaling and frame generation to get playable framerates, it's not really worth it to the common Joe right now imopeople who buy luxury items like the RTX 5090, it is worth it to them I'm sure
>>742176782>stalker is one of the best example on how to not use correctly lumenOkay name one game where Lumen shows no temporal ghosting then.
>>742188353It's all fun and games until you introduce a dynamic light source into the scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIA3gsge9bo>18 years and mirror's edge still looks better than all this """realistic""" shithow did they do it?
>>742166276Because it often is done at the expense of atmosphere and style by hacks who think: realism = betterYou can make a game more "realistic" is it doesn't affect or even exalts the core art of the game but often is just a ploy to sell shit to normies who have no taste.
>>742166276>light>light but BLUEIf this is what the quality of good games comes down to these days then there is no wonder the gaming industry is ruined.
>>742166595flippy bippy
>>742173416>Wah wah I'm a normgroid NPC with no soul so I only enjoy photorealism slop
>>742173871AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you stupid nigger. Just render the room twice for reflections and do some lightmaps. Quake 2 is nearly 30 years old. There's no reason you should tank the framerate into double digits.
>>742173517The Silent Hill 2 remake kind of does this with the bathroom door at the start of the game, now that I think of it, I think that that's the only instance where you interact with a door that affects the surrounding lighting
>>742189114Here's your dynamic light bro
>>742188353Pretty easy to spot the difference because baked lights don't produce lighting that takes the properties of the reflective surface.
>>742177756>John Carmack has entered chat
>>742189949SH2 also suffers from this
>>742190163john carmack is a microslop shill
>>742166276because it's gotten to the point where i can't see an obvious upgraderight just looks like a different time of day, or like there's another opening behind me
>>742166913>one of the few games where GI makes a *gigantic* difference>it's a fast paced competitive shooter where FPS and readability makes more sense than grafix>less than 10% of players use it
>>742189114>dynamic light sourceFully dynamic light sources aren't as common as you'd think. Most of them fall into a couple of categories.If you have a scene that's mostly pretty dark except the player has a flashlight (or car headlights or similar), you can fake that feeling quite convincingly without needing to do anything crazy. Areas that aren't in the flashlight's cone get lit using the static dark lightmap, with maybe a bump to the ambient term for areas just outside the cone. Then pixels that are directly hit by the cone get some harsh direct lighting. Something similar applies to muzzle flashes and grenades.If there are several lights in the scene that can be turned on and off individually by the player, like in a stealth game, then just store the contribution of each light in a separate map and sum up the ones belonging to enabled lights.If you want to have a warehouse lit by 30 ceiling lights which the player can individually shoot out and then also let them open up the bay doors so the area gets flooded with indirect sunlight instead, then you might be fucked but most games don't allow that even if their tech would allow it. Simply avoid hard edge cases like that in your level design. For example, instead of having an openable/closable door directly between bright sunlight and a dimly lit room, have the player walk down a shaded alleyway first so that the lack of indirect sunlight isn't so strange.High quality lightmaps WILL increase file size, of course. But it's worth it. Players get mad about filesize, but they're mad because the game is 200GB and still runs like shit. If they understood the tradeoff (big files in exchange for great lighting that runs well even on old cards), they would accept it.
>>742179617>TLOU2>HL Alyx>Arkham Knight>Dishonored 2 Eat shit gaytracing fags
>>742166276All the realism in the world can't cover for bad, uninspired, trite, boring or outright malicious art design fucko.
>wow beautiful graphics>wow actually shitting on gameplay
When given the choice to play with or without good graphics, I always pick good graphics every single time. Funny enough, people who don’t have that option always seem to prefer playing without good graphics.
>>742190163that's not his original implementation
>>742166913Left looks better, it's easier for the eye and provide better visual clarity, I don't care about realism in vidya.
>>742193704I was just playing Advanced Warfare earlier and I was so engrossed by a Call of Duty game because the graphics were actually decent DX11 instead of dogshit DX9.
>>742190163>No ambient lightis it supposed to be good?
When given the choice to play games which look good or games which "have good graphics", I always pick games which look good every time. Funny though, people coping with the sunk cost fallacy of buying the latest GPU but only being able to use it to make the shadows look grainer in the latest UE slop seem to prefer playing games with "good graphics" even when they look like shit
>>742190683That got fixed with a patch no? I don't remember seeing that and a spent half of my time playing the game looking at the environment.
Howdy.I'm just here to iterate that this place has no idea how computer graphics work and that these threads are absolutely useless.I see a handful of people using terms like "raster" and hundreds of people saying "this looks like shit" and "kill yourself nigger". That's it.You don't need a PhD on light optics or computer programming or a degree of any kind to comment on these things. This goes beyond all of that. This place legitimately barely understands how a computer works.It's fine to admit that you don't know what something is but it's not fine to shroud it in a bunch of pretension and it's not fine to just drop garbage posts on the ground on a place for discussing video games. Please pull something more compelling out of your cranium before I report this thread.
>>742178802>>I pray that when we shortly reach total photo realismCP2077 already demonstrated that to be possible with tons of mods that made the game ultra-realistic and able to run at 60fps on a 4090. We'll probably never have good games again unless someone starts seriously competing against nvidia.Look at the current GPU market state, anon.After 6 years and 3 generations in (3xxx, 4xxx, 5xxx) nvidia is still pushing the 8GB VRAM as the comfy midrange for customers, so they can keep pushing for DLSS and PT.
>>742176782good morning lumen sirs please to hire best artist 2028 free fast
>>742195235I don't need a PhD in light optics to tell you that your post looks like shit and you need to go back
>>742166276UE5 slop ends up looking the same (uncanny valley "photo realism") while running like shit in the process, but the work can be outsourced to India.Good visual style requires competent people i.e. it can't be outsourced to India, leading to a decline in games that actually look visually appealing.
>>742196632the fuck does msaa doing there?
>>742190764He's just saying that it is an impressive feat to do something like that which it is. That's not pro-Microsoft so much as it recognizes that there's some merit to SOME of the things they do.
>>742196410Explain which part of this is obviously wrong. Or don't, and face a jury of random janitors.This place is shit but it has basic standards. Use your words or don't post.
>>742196632Based Sam Altman killing AAA industry by making people only able to play games that run on a toaster.
>>742196632missing "realistic" "high definition" photoscanned textures which are completely discordant with the rest of the scene
>>742196927very impressive saar
>>742166276>spend gajillions making detailed lighting>refuse to do anything interesting with itbravo vidya
>>742197773Don't worry the meme has been remastered with HD textures and DLSS5 support.
>>742198179>DLSS5 hallucinates the sword as a riverIt's perfect
>>742198268How do you know it was a sword and not a river?
>>742190074You can literally bake the irradiance volume thoughever. See SVOGI/VXGI and similar
>>742198745because I'm better at reading an artist's intentions than a robot
>>742190074>we have the technology for fully dynamic lighting, finally we don't need to bake-in effects, everything can react in real time!>look inside>the world is static and full of invisible barriers, can't interact with anything
>>742199145Stop noticing things.
>>742175762Didn't the raster rendering looked better in this part?
>Instead of using RT and PT to make lighting faster and cheaper during development, they just kick it to make it real time during gameplay, affecting the performance, filling the game with visual noise/bugs, forcing players to pay up for the latest expensive hardware AND making the game development somehow more expensive and longer.I really don't understand the point of this useless technology t. 4070 ti super owner
>>742199109You hallucinated a sword when it was a river. Don't you feel a bit retarded?It's clearly not a sword. It doesn't reflect. It's not metal. It's wonky. It's a river
>>742200604Are there any games where I use a river to kill my enemies?
>>742177645Ask CD Projekt Red, they did that for Cyberpunk
>>742166276i'm not unimpressed, we're just well past the point where I no longer feel it's worth it to pay the performance tip + tax for them.
LUMEN IS A CRUTCH SO JEETS CAN THROW ASSETS INTO A SANDBOX ALL WILLY NILLY AND FLIP THE SCRIPT SO THE PROBLEM IS NOW MINE THAT I NEED TO DUMP $10,000 ON A VIDEOCARD INSTEAD OF THEM NOT USING LUMEN SHIT AND INSTEAD USING OLD TECHNICQUES OF CRAFTING WHAT IS REASONABLE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PLAYER.
>>742202716>ESL>poorIt's like peanut butter and jelly.
>>742199145That's the most annoying thing about any of thisShit's dynamic lets take advantage of it but very few even bother
>>742202716>GAME ENGINES IS A CRUTCH SO JEETS CAN THROW ASSETS INTO A SANDBOX ALL WILLY NILLY AND FLIP THE SCRIPT SO THE PROBLEM IS NOW MINE THAT I NEED TO DUMP $200,000 ON A VIDEO CARD INSTEAD OF THEM WRITING CODE IN ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE OR BINARY WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID USED TO DO HEH
>>742198097>refuse to do anything interesting with itnot only that, it often looks much worse with rtx ON.
>>742205241>often looks worse go find 2 youtube videos showing a playthrough, one with RT on and one off. It should be easy to find the RTX on looking worse, right?
>>742199906It wouldn't be half as bad if they actually let people take advantage of it since it's dynamic but most of time games remain static and hardly justify the benefit of real time lighting besides saving some disk space.
>>742166276because graphic improvements dont come with gameplay improvements
Is this the new SLI? Remember when (((they))) convinced their most docile goyim to literally buy two graphics cards?
>>742169429Dont remember or have the meme form but I believe this is the original interview.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKCrOLcDbjEThere have been a number of film directors that realized this about flim, so there must have been many who saw it in video games.first three quarters or so is him giving an example of how beautiful a primitive tapestry made with shitty wool and shitty limited dyes can be.In short:>Limitations breed creativity as we strain against them to express what we desire.>From that we somehow achieve greater forms of expression than if there were no such shackles binding us.>And when we go from being limited to having a great deal of freedom, creators often lose some sort edge they once had.>They become sloppy.>As a result, people crave the real thing being imitated by art more than the art itself.
>>742205701what a retarded quote
>742205843>a desperate cry for attention
>>742205387you are talking about correct shadows and reflections while I was talking about art. realism is the enemy of art. realism fags are people with the worst form of shit taste, I'm deeply convinced of this being true.
>>742205938nta, but it is a sickness born of the hype from us going from nintendo SNES graphics to PS3/Xbox 360 graphics.
>>742205938>it looks worse with RTX on>ok show me >"I don't mean the RT part I mean textures and game stuff which has nothing to do with ray tracing
>>742205701>Why is it that when technique is primitive, everything is beautiful,>And when every technique is perfected, almost everything is ugly,>Except for things created by an artist talented enough to overcome technique?
>>742206091I did mean the RT part making the base game look worse by making it more realistic but not fully photorealistic, which creates this shitty, ugly middle ground of the uncanny valley.
>>742206369ok show me some better RTX off screenshots and video.
>>742166276Diminishing returns. Video games have generally looked more or less the same over the course of 20 years, obnoxious lighting and all.I prefer my games to have idiosyncratic artstyles like pic related. It single-handedly proves the efficacy of Richard Williams' Animator's Survival Guide.
>>742166276Lumen is dogshit, it's full of noise and instability, especially in low light environments and it updates very slowly to the point where you can see it slowly fade in and out. Utter crap.
>>742206524I don't see the point; you'll just say it looks perfect to you because your brain prefers ugly realism to artistic expression, which is subjective. people like you will never understand the video crowbcat made about OG RE4 and the demake.
>>742173482No this is 100% Lumen related and has literally nothing to do with any upscaling. You can turn off upscaling and run at 4k native even, Lumen is still garbage. It only works well in extremely bright and static scenes.
>>742166276It's pretty much just sour grapes from console babies, third worlders, and amd poors that can't afford to run anything at the highest settings.
>>742166595FPBP. Fuck gurafx retards.
>>742205701>And when we go from being limited to having a great deal of freedom, creators often lose some sort edge they once had.This is all obviously real but you're wording it like you're sceptical. Art can express ideas, emotions and concepts, even when working with a purely visual medium because you can manipulate that medium to communicate things which are not normally communicated visually. OR you could just recreate a Thing that's directly in front of you.Recreating a Thing that's directly in front of you, visually as a 1:1 representation of reality is the lamest and least interesting option available to you as an artist. You can barely even call that art. But because it can be quite challenging to perfectly recreate the thing in front of you there is a reasoning trap, that because something is difficult to do it must be valuable or that being able to recreate something more accurately makes you a better artist. This bullshit, but it's such an easy trap to fall into that people have been falling into it in every single creative medium since the dawn of time.What technical limitations do is act as a barrier to prevent people from falling into that trap. If you only have 32 pixels to work with then you CANT just look at reality and recreate it, you have to engage your creative abilities and find a way to express yourself within those boundaries. When you give people the ability to do photorealism they lose the excuse for not being photorealistic and usually they can't help themselves
>>742166276Left side looks better.
>>742190764>research badlow IQ mong
>>742206705>RT looks better in games when it's turned off>show me >I can't I know you can't. You're talking though your ring piece
>>742205701Here,As much as I can agree that art shouldn't limit itself to "realism", Jean Renoir can say retarded thing.I want a realistic JUNGLE because I cannot travel to one, even less have epic adventures there.So nothing wrong with the graphics becoming realistic.The problem however, is that the more details you can manage at once, the harder it becomes to tweak every single one of them to achieve something more artistic.You reuse the tools/models you painfully developed for decades instead of throwing it all away to try something artsy.
>>742206705>people like you will never understandPeople like you will never afford to run it
>>742207602I'm pretty sure the point of your image is that the games on the left all look wildly visually distinct from each other and evoke very different feelings while the forests on the right are all exactly the same
>>742207461pic related is enough proof. this is my last reply, you clearly lack basic reading comprehension and are also trolling. I never said RTX can't look good or that it's always a downgrade, but it often is.>>742207623that's the sunk cost fallacy speaking. lmao
>>742168954you can't escape
Stencil shadows were the last time I was really wowed by graphics, and they didn't really stick around, raytracing is more subtle & the pursuit of realism is a walk down the road of diminishing returns while missing the forest for the trees; ''real'' realism comes just as much from immersive ai, mechanical (appropriate to each genre) and audio systems, not just rendering
>>742207312Its not skepticism.I just don't care to fully encapsulate the concepts with excessive words.Sometimes keeping things loose lets people fill in the blanks better than I would otherwise.Like you did just now.
>>742209042>and they didn't really stick aroundBecause they have a very limited use case, were CPU heavy, and at the time, some rather large limitations like four light sources at once could be active, requiring a lot of planning on the mappers end. Much as I love the aesthetic of the razor sharp black shadows. Shame I haven't seen much in the way of indie games making use of them.Couldn't light large outdoor areas with it either, which was starting to become more common in gaming after everyone started chasing the open world meme following Oblivion's release a year and a half later.
>>742190006But that doesn't look good.
>>742207602Fool.What use is there in making a jungle like any other, when you should be making your game's jungle?If you want to make a game about a realistic jungle, do so.But most games with jungles are NOT about realistic jungles, and so to focus on making a "realistic jungle" over a "suitable-for-the-game-jungle" loses something.It has become easier than it ever was before to automate the menial work and devote more time to getting tweaks in place to achieve something more realistic.This is the decadence, right here.
>>742208524Why did you have to crop the image. Show the full screenshot.
>>742210061nta but either explain what you think he is hiding or forever be thought a faggot
>>742210115>>742208524https://youtu.be/unGtBbhaPeU
>>742210115https://youtu.be/kE7aMQN91oE
>>742210147>>742210257christ that looks like lazy slop...what the fuck man why couldn't they be assed to make the sky and lighting the proper fucking color????That is not a normal earth-like planetits a super industrialized world with red skies because their fucking STAR is a red giant.its supposed to have an alien red glow to feel ominous.The skies are SUPPOSED to be smogged and polluted, not bright and fucking sunny.>>742208524was right.
>>742210147I remember Quake2 and that doesn't look like Quake2, it looks like an overly bright lighting tech demo
>>742210392>they just added RTX to Quake using Nvidia Remix>why didn't they simply remake the entire game to appease me, a person who can't afford to run it ?
>>742210449>dude we just added RTX>ignore the fact that we changed the color>ignore the fact that we changed the skybox>ignore the fact that we butchered the art design to put bright and cheerful sun randomly into a dark alien world choked by pollution under a red star>if you DARE to pay attention to any of the many things we changed, YOU are being selfishwhat a retarded faggot lmao
>>742174615Based post.
>>742210534>waaaaaa waaaaaaa it's different colorsit isn't. https://youtu.be/9kfKJceF7wE
>>742210709I am pretty sure I could ask AI to do this for free and it would turn out better than this lazy slop.just by asking it to use red sunlight filtered through thick industrial smog.How can you be so lazy and retarded you can't even preserve the right general colors?
>>742166276You can clearly see what the problem is if you look OP
>>742210743go on then. do it and be rich. maybe then you'll stop crying like a poorfag
>>742210827Why would I sell something so simple and easy?Are you a retarded indian or something?Is that why you are being so defensive over such lazy and sloppy work?Is that why you are only thinking of making money with it?
>>742210670
>>742210893>sloppy workit's a tech demo. it was released with rtx 2080ti to show off ray tracing. You're sperging out like it's destroyed one of your favourite games. I didn't bring Quake into this. You did.
>>742166276>"improvements" (looks and runs worse than shit 15 years ago)
kill realism subhumans
>>742211134>Saaar do not make fun of this I am become very rich man from selling Quake: Mr. Bluesky RTX Ultra Supreme Enhanced Edition!Oh no, the retarded pajeet is so assmad he can't tell a different person started talking to him lmao.YOU started linking some shitty videos so I responded, Amir.
We've not had any serious "improvements" since fucking 2007. Epic's and Nvidia's cucks just try to make mountains out of fucking pebbles these days, by introducing WORSE ways to do shit we had already figured out 15+ years ago, only to sell you the "solution" of running it "better".
>>742166276most people can't run it and maintain 144fpsno hate on them, it's likely not worth it to spend around $3000 to have the setup for it but yeah it's just a coping mechanism
>>742171871okay, now post your specs
>>742211263Crysis was made by white men, it's literally cheating to compare it to shit made by strong and diverse work forces.
>>742211263The game looks its age. It just shipped with lots of headroom in the graphic settings. Take this man to the infirmary he is delusional.
>>742211508Looks better than the shit in the OP.
>>742211583Genuinely ugly.
>>742174615I always wondered what a sane approach would be for routing water flow in game dev. You could align the UVs of the quads for the water surface to be in the direction you want, but you'd still need shader wizardry to mask/blend/hide the transition points. Some games go fancier with having sections where water meets land/wall where it'll splash up against it or drag sea foam up during the waves.
>>742211325Is there a reason you didn't shut off your onboard GPU? It makes the CPU run hotter with it simply being on.
>>742211968Just forgot to turn it back off when I was doing some tweaking in the bios, realized that as I was posting .
>>742211667it looks nicer at full res, this one compressed better
>>742211091>>742211583
>>742211890Dunno but apparently this game has a proper simulation, it looks really cool sometimes.
>>742212469It's ugly. It falls into that uncanny area where it's just unpleasant to look at.
well proper simulation with some asterisks. the ocean isn't simulated and you can't change the flow much or at all
>>742212469They still in patching mode of the game? I was wanting to grab it at some point, but kept waiting to see if they'd commit to some bro-op update.
>>742212893Yep... the patching filtered me since I was using mods lol. By the time I jump back in I might just restart it all since so much has changed. Jumping in after they release whatever DLC they have planned might be a good idea.
>>742212469Don't bother, lad. You're talking to someone that hasn't seen an IRL body of water in years.If it's not a jade and azure colored Caribbean sea he will think it's awful.
>>742166276The main problem with modern videogames isn't graphical fidelity, it's that the games are shit because they're being made by people who don't play them or understand what makes them enjoyable. I tried the new James Bond game and it has multiple mundane exercises which are deliberate padding because there isn't much content in the game. I don't want to walk around a flat and chat to housemates or walk around the office, that shit should be done in a cutscene that lasts a minute or two. Indiana Jones had the same problems, just completely mundane tasks walking from one area to the next clicking on objects and then walking to another area to click on another object.I'm so glad I didn't pay for that bullshit, it wasn't even worth torrenting.
>>742213105Your brown river isn't a body of water, it's a body of shit.
The chase for realism has damned games to look samey and to rely on dynamic lighting systems instead of purposeful lighting to create interesting or clear gameplay.This has also affected platformers as well and I hate it.
>>742213018>>742212683>>742212469>>742211583>>742211263really nice water
>>742207946Of course it is the point, but it's a silly point.Some of those old school game forest are just ugly or looked like that because they couldn't do better.Whereas those modern open-world forests are superb and we did (eventually) get the tools to make them into corridors-game if you want.>>742209889Foolish answer.Making custom jungles each game will not give you a superior jungle, all your efforts will be spent restarting from scratch, taking away resources you could have used on aspect that absolutely require as much human-attention as possible.Whereas using the best jungle generator, improved years after years, will give greater and greater visual appeal, with all the tools you need to adapt it to new needs, freeing resources to push the limit in other direction, eventually reaching a point where a few sliders give you more variety than "custom" jungles.This is not decadence, this is simply making a design decision to use the jungle as a foil for other contents, achieving greater visual & gameplay standing upon the shoulder of giant than what could ever achieve by restarting from scratch each time.
>>742213952>retard thinks that customizing things means you restart from scratch every single time>this means we should all shut up and admire the repetitive slopDecadent retard is angry that his laziness is noticed.
>>742213851check out this indie game's water, it's very comfyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0mV-Emh6qEhe uploads a lot of videos
>>742207946isn't it amazing that the ideas of>evoking different feelingsand>looking visually distinctget waved aside by a decadent retard as "silly and ugly... because they couldn't do better"all because he wants to insist that the modern slop "jungle generator" is the best thing possible.>>742213952if the users of your slop generator have MORE freedom and customization than the "silly and ugly primitives"THEN WHY ISNT THERE MORE FREEDOM AND CUSTOMIZATION ON DISPLAY, RETARD?
>le visually distinct dogshit levels are 15min long at most>realistic jungle is a fully immersive jungle that you can explore for hours so glad I'm not a retarded nostalgic boomer holy shit
>>742213952well I think (YOU) are a silly point
>>742173674>sar it is user fault game looks shit saar!that aint how it works in White countries rakesh
>>742213952Why did you post an image of World of Warcraft, an old game with low tech visuals which employs competent art and design to create a massive variety of different environments with different atmospheres? Is this a posting gimmick where you keep attaching things that undermine your own posts?
tes
>>742205701that's the one, thanks
>>742217776If this scene were made today in UE by a modern studio:>The fencing would be perfectly straight and pristine>It would be made of metal and shiny to allow RT reflections>All of the trees would have the same full spread of leaves using SpeedLeaf(TM)>Instead of patchy derelict fields there would be full corn rows>It would be windy to allow the corn rows to sway>You wouldn't be able to see anything under RT lighting so we'd make it daytime instead>But then focus groups would demand a day/night cycle using real light calculation>So you add 20 more lights, all the colours would be changed to be realistically accurateNow your run down, shabby wood with quaint lighting that's a little bit spooky would be replaced with a photorealistic daytime forest scene with bright sunlight and godrays poking through swaying fully endowed trees. Instead of the warm glow of old lanterns highlighting the paths you would have Mathematically Accurate overbrights with the trees casting big meshes of traced shadows across the whole scene obscuring things at random and failing to lead your eyes in any sensible direction
>>742205701there is literally zero logic in this and it ignores reality lolaccording to "artists" like this, art died like 150 years ago what a joke
>>742218974>according to "artists" like this, art died like 150nobody said that, but I suppose your kind needs to lie to pretend to have a point
>>742219046>what is hyperbole
>>742213018I was surprised that they patched in respawning enemies, since that fundamentally changes the feel of the world. Granted it was mostly a band-aid to fix quests that would break if a unique thing was killed before you talked to an NPC that wanted it dead.
>>742211263that's the remastered kys
>>742219131>hyperbole means making up a strawman to argue against now
>>742210754Imagine putting effort, even if its a small amount, into a meme and no one acknowledging it. You're a failure and a tourist.
>>742212469which emotion is this scene trying to convey
>>742224134it's just water
>>742190764>nooo you have to blindly hate ai proof of concepts because they're ai! When did it become cool to be a shameless fucking luddite
>>742225889>you will not own your frames and you'll be happy
how am I supposed to be impressed with graphical improvements when all the AAA games using them look like dogshit
>>742175762Cyberpunk really is the retard canary in the mine.
>>742166276>graphical improvements>blurry gas??
>>742166913Right is marginally better, but not worth the -60% fps hit
Protip: If someone gets angry at you for not spending money, that means their investment is on the line.
Software Lumen looks fine enough but the denoiser for it is fucking abysmal which is why everyone talks about the splotchy/smeary lighting when referring to UE5. Hardware Lumen almost fixes this problem but I haven't seen a whole lot of UE5 titles that give you both aside from Fortnite and SH2R and it incurs a performance penalty. Normally you just get software Lumen and have to deal with it.
>>742211341>white men>Turks
>10% better looking for 1/5th of the framerate and twice the watts and heat produced
>>742211263>We've not had any serious "improvements" since fucking 2007.>posts CrysisIf you cannot see all the areas in which Crysis graphics look like absolute shit today you're a literal NPC and need to kill yourself.
>>742226086you don't even know what the tech in the image is, why do you feel like commenting on it
>>742227727why are you seething then?
>>742168192>>742168267Cyberjunk does this shit too. I hate that shit so much.
>>742227928Because I actually know what I'm talking about and i find ignorant faggots like you who comment on shit you know nothing about to be obnoxious shitskins
>>742228348>I actually know what I'm talking aboutvagueposting again
>>742228419>comment on image>retard replies to me with some shit about fake frames like it has anything to do with it >call him retarded>WAHHHH VAGUEPOSTINGhere, let's teach you how to behave like a normal human. If you want to know something, ask
>>742228526you immediately started calling people retarded and throwing a fit over "fake frames," retard. maybe work on your anger management. It's hilarious lol
>>742228668Protip: If you don't know shit about something, ask. Don't embarrass yourself making retarded assumptions. Nobody minds a question, everyone thinks you're retarded if you confidently spread ignorance.
>>742232031what assumption? it's fake frames
