what's the worst game genre misnomer?
i am brown and this is my thread, a twitter screencap thread
>>742247816roguelikedoomclonemetroidvania
>>742247859If you didn't smile at the mention of nightcore you have no soul.
my worst misnomer was calling fake walls "invisible walls" which made sense in my head because its a secret path that isnt visible because there is a fake wall blocking it.
>>742247816Nightcore fucking sucks.
>>742247893>>742247816Soulslike when it just means>Monster Hunter but with dogshit combat
>>742247816Roguelike and it's not even close.>dude here's fhirty different games that are all completely different apart from the fact that they have permadeath and some procedural generation>they're all roguelikes by the way
Meteoidvania has a similar issue
zoomoids with 1 collective braincell call fantasy native isekai
>>742247816Real time strategy.
ShmupErm they're actually bullet hells
>>742247942>games in a genre are different aside from the core elements that define the genrewait until you find out platformers only require the player to jump on platforms and can do whatever else they want
>>742247942Darkest Dungeon is the worst offender, since its an X-com clone.
can't do worse than MOBAs honestly
>>742247893tiktokliketiktoklonetitktokvania
>>742248223that's because typing ASSFAGGOTS gets tiring after a while
>>742248005What a retarded genre name>"Metroid-vania">When the "Vania" in question is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night>Which was just copying from Super Metroid, which came before itThe only "Vania" thing about it is that they usually use swords instead
>This is a good song but you know what would make it better? Making it sound like it was performed by Chip & DaleWho the fuck unironically listens to nightcore?
"goon" doesn't mean "horny" or "sex appeal". It literally means to edge until your brain turns off and all you can think of is cum.
>>742247816Nobody ITT is ready for this because it's real and not twitter bullshit: First-Person and Third-Person are terrible names for camera perspectives
>>742248417what's the difference between gooning and fapping then?
>>742248425Elaborate. How else would you describe the perspectives?
Twitter threads should be a global at this point.
>>742248464fapping is performed with the aim to cum. gooning is performed with the aim to not cum. gooners wank for several hours.
>>742247816"Bullet heaven" is catching on for the genre Vampire Survivors kickstartedWhich is fucking awfulIt should be called arcade survival, you know, something that actually describes the game and doesn't sound stupid
>>742248157When I was more genre ignorant I used to think that "beat em ups" were games like Hades and Kingdom Hearts, because you just have your melee stick and you beat em up.
>>742248573isnt that just edging
>>742247928thatd be monster hunter fampai
>>742248603it should be called realm of the mad god like
>>742248464If you're watching one video and cranking it until you bust, that's a fap and that's normalGooning is when you hole up in your room for hours, days... longer... and edge over and over and overYou surround yourself with porn, on every display you have, multiple videos playing at onceIt's pure degenerate behavior.
>>742248325Eh, people like songs in a higher key, feminine voice, or sped up. Toss them together and you'll get fans. They're hit or miss though, because there's several ways to "nightcore" a song and some are just lazy speed filters, so there's not often quality control on a "successful" edit.
>>742248664It's extreme edging for porn addicts>>742248542A global WHAT
>>742248464You can be a functional human after cranking one out on your lunch break. Can't say the same for raping yourself with a choke chain and a crate of poppers for three hours.
>>742247816"simulator"
>>742248464Gooning is like masturbating to masturbation itself, instead of to porn. You don't even cum because that'd ruin your session.
>>742248727>>742248791what the fuck
>>742248464Masturbating for sensation of masturbating vs. masturbating to reach an orgasm.
>>742248778"Realistic" games always trip up on the fact that this shit isn't fun in real life. Every game mechanic is a relief, be it auto completion at 95%, or no stamina, or infinite pockets, you get the idea.
>>742248281The "Vania" part basically means "It has RPG stats".But most Metroidvanias don't, so in reality it should be Metroidlike.
>>742248820The term went mainstream after people started sharing posts from the r/gooncaves subreddit, getting attention because it was so bizarreA little game of Internet telephone later and a lot of people think it's just a word for masturbating
>>742248603No way, Bullet Heaven is a fantastic genre name.>But it's a shibboleth!So is every fucking genre name. What he hell does "Arcade Survival" mean? Nothing. That's like "Search Action" game, it's descriptive without describing anything. It's just as much of a shibboleth as Bullet Heaven. But Bullet Heaven at least becomes immediately obvious if you know what Bullet Hell is, and it's clever and it's funny.In short: No.
>>742248930At this point they replaced the word horny completely and just use gooner for everything. Internet slang culture is cancer
>>742247926In the Souls series "invisible wall" is 幻影 壁 which is more akin to phantom, or illusion, rather than invisible.
>>742248015>he takes the bait seriouslyDont do that
>>742248183that'd be a great analogy if platformers were alll based on a game called platform which actually had mechanics beyond 'jump on platforms' but failed to account for any of that criteria when deciding which games were platformerstoo bad that's not even remotely the case and you're retarded
>>742248994>What he hell does "Arcade Survival" mean?It means it's an arcade game where the objective is to survive as long as possibleArcade of course being a genre term denoting short play sessions, simple controls or objectives, and a structure promoting repeated playthroughs as exemplified by games which populated the arcades
I wrote a rant about this a while back, categorising how ridiculous the genre names were.>0% Crazy (What you see is what you get)Puzzle Game, Fighting Game, Real Time Strategy, Turn Based Strategy, Stealth Game, Survival/Survival Horror, Rhythm Game, Sports Game, Racing Game, Visual Novel, City Builder, Dungeon Crawler, Party Game.>10% CrazyFirst Person Shooter, Simulation Game, Looter Shooter>20% CrazyGod Game, MUD, DoomClone, Metroidlike and Soulslike, along with any other similar "-Clone" or "-Like" variant.>30% CrazyBeat 'em Up, Hack n Slash and Walking Simulator, Immersive SIM, Tower Defense.>40% Crazy Metroidvania. Requires knowledge of two genres, and yet if you're familiar with Castlevania you understand about 10% of what this means, while if you're familiar with Metroid you understand about 90%>50% CrazyBattle Royale.>60% CrazyPlatformer and Gatcha>70% CrazyRPG, MMORPG, Action Adventure>80% CrazyAdventure Game, Character Action Game, ARPG>90% Crazy4X, MOBA, ASSFAGGOTS, CRPG, JRPG, TRPG, SRPG>100% Crazy (The names are meaningless or even if you know them you might not understand anything)Blobber, Shmup, Roguelike/Roguelite.
>>742247928Now this is some peak contrarianism
>>742248930I don't think it's telephone confusion so much as it is the internet is an absolute power blender for word meaning nowadays. And "horny" memes keep being "hilarious" and trending (feet/pit/piss kink, daddy kink, mommy kink, etc etc). I'm sure real gooning was known, and people just kept joke using it as "aha I'm gooning rn" (I say this with confidence because my insufferable friend does this and will even start a conversation with "hey gooner") and so now it's been streamlined into a watered down concept. I'll never forgive tiktok for ruining "POV" btw. At this point I'm sure some of it is ragebait but it works.
>>742249237So in other words an absolute shibboleth exactly on par with "Search Action Game". Bullet Heaven is more descriptive and easier to understand.
>>742248417When the word goon is used to describe something, as in calling a game "goonbait", it does not literally mean that the game is designed to be gooned over, but that it has visual elements that lend themselves to gooning. Case in point, Stellar Blade is goonbait. Not because it is designed to be jerked off to, but because it is prime jerk-off material regardless of its qualities as a game.Fapbait would probably be more accurate, but the word fap has quietly disappeared from popular culture.
>>742249151Uh oh your semantics autism is leaking. No one cares. Non autists know what it means. Deal with it
>>742248603>>742248994I'm still partial to garliclike. What the hell is shibboleth?
'member when youtubers tried to force the term character action into the mainstream but failed miserably?So many games have you play a character and are action oriented but aren't hack 'n' slashes.
>>742249314I think Immersive Sim deserves to be in the 100% Crazy tier, it's possibly the most poorly defined "genre" for any video game.
>>742249326He never beat a single souls game, only watched youtube clips and saw things on /v/. Sadly, many many many zoomers talk about games they never played themselves.Or maybe he was too stupid to understand Souls mechanics, either way he's retarded.
>>742247816"Action" "Role-playing" "Game"
>>742247816bullet hell vs bullet heaven
>>742247919I've been here too long
>>742248417Same as incel just a little before it, the term's been abused past the point it's lost its original meaning.
>>742248417tiktok zoomies do this with every word and i hate it so fucking much
>>742247816hack and slash>Diablo>God of War>Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, character actionwhich way white man?
>>742249359>Bullet Heaven is more descriptive and easier to understand.Bullet heaven only makes sense if you have an existing knowledge of bullet hell, which is a niche genre.It also draws comparison to that genre, despite being mechanically very different.It is not an inverse bullet hell. It's a different type of game altogether.>>742249383He thinks that if he uses uncommon words it'll make him sound smarter.
>>742247919holy crap is that grinman
>>742249336>ragebaitand you're a fucking faggot for using that term tooit's called trolling but you stupid zoomers think every little bit of ignorance is LE RAGEBAIT
>>742249482ARPG should just be rebranded as top-down musou.
>>742249314This whole time I thought assfaggots was just an immature joke that's overblowing the alphabetical mouthful of shit like MMORPGs. This post made me look it up. You're telling me it's meant something this whole time? I never questioned it.
>>742247919Man, I remember when Dan Kim wasn't a giant faggot.Like tears in the rain.
>>742249460>>742249326I already beat Dark Souls 1, all dlc and 2, scholar.The combat is dogshit, the best part is the exploration.Anything else you wanna cope about?
racists who side with either arcade or simulation camps will ALWAYS use simcade as some sort of derogatory term that apparently neither side likes
>>742249437Indeed. I've never once heard a useful interpretation of the concept. I have my own, and it's good, but I won't share until the rest of the internet catches up.
>>742249482https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT3_rprzWvs now poop 2...THATS an arpg
>>742249715Based 0451-typing-simulators proposer
>>742249558No, trolling can involve ragebaiting but it's more about general disturbance and harassment. Ragebait is specifically going for engagement, nowadays, since comments and views are worth a lot to a lot of people and "I made the hot new drink mix in my toilet with sour gummy worms" will farm a lot of that more easily than a sincere stab and being seen and valued. Even if they were the same thing language evolves constantly especially online and there's no real need to police "we've already made a word for that".>you stupid zoomers think every little bit of ignorance is LE RAGEBAITI straight up said *some* of it is probably ragebait, which isn't a crazy assumption nowadays, now why the hell are you mad if I'm not even ragebaiting?
>>742248223ahemaction gamestrategyrpgshooter
>>742247816It's not a misnomer but I had a coworker tell me about how his friends coined the term bullet hell for enter the gungeon
>shoot them up>your enemies go down when you shoot them
>>742247859You were born on 21st century, you are completely unaware of your ignorance and i welcome you to waste your life on 4chan.
The best visualisation, imo, for how to understand how good or bad genre names are, is with a cricket analogy.>If you're fielding and you're told to field at Square Leg, you can probably intuit "Okay, I need to stand square of the batsman, on leg side." Easy enough. But if you're told to field at Silly Mid On, there's no way you can intuit anything at all. You just have to know what it means. So, anything that encompasses genres like Fighting Game, or FPS, something you can intuit with logic or basic knowledge would be like being told to field at Square Leg.Comparatively, a genre name that explains fucking nothing unless you already know waht the genre means, like Shmup, Blobber or Adventure Game would be like being told to field at Silly Mid On.
>>742249437Honestly you might be right, it's similar to Roguelike/Roguelite in that everyone has their own definition and none of those defintions make any sense. It's borderline not even a genre, honestly."Thief TDA is an Immersive SIM but Cyberpunk isn't." "Kingdom Come Deliverance isn't an Immersive SIM, Immersive SIMs are games like Ultima Underworld", insane statements you will actually hear people say on /v/.>>742249594Happy to help. Honestly the only reason it's stuck around so much is probably because the original post was so funny and creative.
>>742249839The majority of people don't use ragebait as in farming retards for views mispronouncing something, it's more like "wow you don't know who XYZ is? dats ragebait frfr" and it's another word to add to the pile of ruined terminologyJust like we don't need a million words for jerking off, we don't need a million for pissing people off
>>742249965Idunno adventure game seems fine so long as your not pedantic about it, such as >Isn't Mario going on an adventure though? Isn't Master Chief?It feels sorta like a bedrock of "if you're looking to get into gaming and you're interested in X Y Z, try checking out some X Y Z games". If the thrill of adventure calls me I can play an adventure game, y'know?
>>742247816roguelike, nothing else comparesthat said I've seen a lot more people calling their shit roguelites as they should, so I will continue to bring it up and call people retarded as necessary
>>742247816>immersive simsThe genre name doesn't describe at all the qualities of what people ascribe to the genre
>>742247919>include Yotsuba>but it's clearly modelled after Shindo's doujin versioncursed>>742249597I bought his book and got a signed sketch with itsketch sits on my desk, I still haven't read the book yet lol
>>742249715You jest, but there really is no good definition for it. Even the name is retarded and tells you nothing about what the game is supposed to be like.>>742250051Exactly.So, it's a game that's immersive and is supposed to be simulating something?>no it's about player choice and emergent gameplaySo why don't you call it a "dynamic agency" game or something?>because Warren Spector is a pseud and had to differentiate games he worked on as some unique genre and that's the term he settled onWhat is the gameplay supposed to be like?>it can be an FPS, RPG, stealth, platformer, adventure, horror game, or pretty any genre but it has to emphasize player choiceThat doesn't narrow anything down, can you name some examples?>Ultima Underworld, Thief, System ShockOkay, what makes those games immersive sims and not something like a Visual Novel or Elder Scrolls which are immersive games that emphasize player choice and simulate some kind of system like social dynamics, physics, or even legal systems?>because... because they just are OKAY?
>>742249594Aeon of Strife Style Fortress Assault Game Going On Two SidesIt doesn't quite work because you typically wouldn't use the o from on, but it at least was descriptive, whereas Riot pushed the entirely generic and nondescript Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. It can also be offline, as is often done form major competitive events, and isn't an arena in any traditional sense, so it's just broken.
>>742248664analogus to chewing and eatingone requires and is a series of the other with some added complexities
>>742250095I guess it sorta contributes to the hyperbolic time chamber of wringing out all meaning from words, but I interpreted "that unbelievably dumb shit is rage bait" as "what you said is so fucking stupid I have to tell myself you're just saying that to piss me off". More of a burn than a sincere misunderstanding. The same hyperbole that throws "gooner" around to call you a pervert, or "incel" to say nobody wants your ass, or "weeb" to say your greater interest in anime is dorky and cringey to me. As far as needing any particular amount of words, that's a silly claim, we'll just keep replacing them and reclaiming old ones and redefining some. That's how a language evolves and how enshittification becomes a word of the year. Embrace it, it's what'll let us naturally segue into saying shit like "aw shock, I just got zapped 200 credits for that tisky, schway!" in the year 2089.
>>742249314ASSFAGGOTS was always tongue-in-cheek(taking "fortress assault game going on both sides" seriously is autism), meant specifically to insult rather than descriptively categorize so it doesn't really belong to legitimately "honest" attempts at genre namingthat said your categorization by degrees of 10% is so particular to your perception that all you've really done is admit you're hyperautistic
>>742247859Hi, brown
>>742250051>"Thief TDA is an Immersive SIM but Cyberpunk isn't."This is probably true, per my impression. Thief IS an imsim, I know that much. Deus Ex tries, but it's too goofy and gamey. Cyberpunk is glorified ubislop.
>>742249437It really isn't. 1 you already know it when you see it. 2 its already stating its two distinctive qualities immersion and simulation. What else do you even think would be more notable? Stealth optional? Skill tree lite?
>>742247859hi Mr. Brown how come u weren't in Clue
>>742249548slice and dice
>>742250249Elder scrolls and fallout typically are considered immersive sims. My understanding of the genre is one that focuses on player interactivity within a world space, including non combat, non dialogue based interaction with non characters. The world needs to, in some significant way, react to the minor things you do. Big sweeping changes aren't as important as a distinguishing feature, but small interactions that react in a predictable way are.
>>742250517Now thats a good ass game
>>742249482This is probably the worst for me. When I first heard ARPG I thought it was an RPG that wasn't turn based but it's used specifically the top-down grid shit of diablo. Even though souls can be an ARPG nobody uses it for that and only diablo style
>>742250105Tell me what you think an Adventure Games is. I'm being serious, not being glib.
>>742250431Yes, but it was specifically because Riot was pushing the nonsense that is MOBA which caused that response.
>>742249845...bro its literally sped up
>>742249594same lol, i thought it was just something that people referred to Mobas with because the name abbreviation like LoL and DOTA sound stupid
>>742250615It is the encompassing super genre made up of things like Text Adventure and Point and Click Adventure games.
>>742250249I do not jest, and my definition is more than sufficient. As for>retarded...words have meanings, and "immersive simulation" isn't an esoteric or overly complex idea. It has to mean SOMETHING, which means it DOES mean something.
>>742249965Fighting game is actually horrible now because it just means "street fighter like" the maybe one exception is 3d fighters like tekken.
>>742250253Also Battle Arena is a tautology. Arena implies battle already.
>>742249965>>742250697Fighting game is also a terrible term and not specific enough because it can mean anything from "fighting game" like smash when it's really a platformer fighter, which is different from 2D fighter like street fighter. Then you have 3D fighters like tekken but some people think "arena fighter" like naruto storm is a 3D fighter. Then there's the weirdos who think UFC is a fighting game which are kinda correct but not reallyIt's not a catch all term at all
>>742250663Yeah, it's essentially a puzzle game, right? Mostly focused around interpreting developer logic. I think if you mentioned Adventure Game to basically any unknowing layman they'd think of an Acton Adventure like Zelda instead.
>>742250543>are considered immersive simsI never hear people say as such, hell tim cain doesn't even think fallout is an im-sim, then again he goes by a different definition. I think the delineating factor is that fallout lacks teh first person element and the environmental interaction to problem solve that you get with something like Thief or Deus Ex, the immersive part comes from needing to use the environment more directly
>>742250249Well visual novel is not in first person (audio adapted too) or "real time" and non action (those would be the immersion elements.) Elder scrolls I would agree fits but since its already considered an rpg thats like "a higher plane" in terms of genre while imsim was kinda rpg lite.
>>742250615It won't be a good description. I'm really just at peace with that being a vaguer genre. I guess I'd say games where the journey is more important than the destination, where you're meant to be charmed actually going through the adventure it prepared for you (so typically needs some kind of pleasant environments or exploration even if it's more on rails). Environment and movement therein as a key selling point?
>>742247816"larp", you don't live action role play on the fucking internet. why not just say rp? and why do so many zoomers keep spamming this word nowadays?
>>742250543>Elder scrolls and falloutOld Fallout...kinda, but it's more of a roleplaying thing than a baked-in mechanic. Elder Scrolls and Toddout...nah. Morrowind is as Fallout, per my statement above, but that's it.
>>742250697>>742250786Fighting Game is okay because it fully encompasses exactly what the core of the genre is. If you think about a fight, you think about two guys going at it 1v1 typically. Thus fighting game. Puzzle Game is everything from Layton to Baba Is You, to The Witness or Blue Prince, they're all very different but the core is still solving puzzles. They're a Square Leg style name. Same deal with Fighting Game, imo.
>>742250856With this in mind I entirely encourage refining it with action adventure, puzzle adventure, immersive adventure, you get the idea hopefully. A wide umbrella on its own not trying to cater to a particular itch the way Platformer or Roguelike do.
>>742250810Early 3d Zelda fits into an adventure game verge quite well, due to its focus on using key items to overcome puzzles to progress a narrative. I would hesitate to say modern 3d Zelda fits, and while 2d Zelda had similar concepts, i would place it in a different sub genre, or outside of adventure entirely. Akin to JRPG vs cRPG or RPGs all being distinct.
>>742250786Even platform fighter is bad imo. It should rally be called DI fighter as thats its distinguishing mechanic. Take away the platforms (many stages do) and it still feels like smash.
>>742250815>the environmental interaction to problem solve that you get with something like Thief or Deus ExGetting warmer...>the immersive part comes from needing to use the environment more directlyNo longer getting warmer.
>>742248281Soulsborne is the worst for this.
>>742247816>"platform fighter"You have a million different genres named after the game that popularized it Rogue like Rogue lite Metroid Vania Souls like Stranding like. But suddenly you can't just say Smash like. Even though Smash created it. Smash popularized it. There's a few copycats but Smash is still the only one that actually matters.
>>742250864correct term there is erp. Larp is actually used correctly when you describing a guy in an internet video though. Its really forum users shitting the bed with this one.
>>742251013That's more of Smash being seen as socially unacceptable to take seriously thing, and the negative connotations people have with its playerbase, outside of literal children.
>>742248281Didn't it technically begin with 2?
>>742250986No it isn't. Soulsborne is rollslop, full stop. That's where it started, that's where it's going, that's where it stays. There's no timeline about it, unlike the post you're replying to.
>>742250885Yea "fighting games" are definitely fighting games. But what about games like gundam versus, custom robo, arms, shit like that that has to get filtered out for some reason.
>>742250979If the general public knew more about fighters then DI fighter would make more sense. But we have to distinguish them by the stage because it's the most obvious. Like there's a clear difference to anyone who plays fighting between street fighter and anime fighters like guilty gear but you really just label them all as 2D fighter, if not fighting game
>>742250874You dont have to be a good game to be of a genre. You could distinguish them into a further subgenre if you prefer, perhaps LiteSim or something, but they definitely qualify.
>>742247816roguelikes aren't anything like roguealso people call every action platformer a metroidvania now, when that being a genre name itself was retarded to begin with since it was originally used for metroid style castlevania games
>>742248281>When the "Vania" in question is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night>Which was just copying from Super Metroid, which came before itCastlevania 2 came out way before and was copying more Maze of Galious than Metroid.
>>742250928CRPG is another hilariously bad one because the whole idea was "It's DnD played on your computer!" which has aged like milk.
Honestly at this point, action role playing game. Like some of this shit is just real time turns.
>>742251156Thats fair, and its more of a retroactive distinction from console based JRPGs and purely mechanical dungeon crawlers.You could try to retcon computer as classic, and it might be more fitting
>>742248994>"Search Action"i'm calling thief, amnesia, deus ex, re1-3, and those slenderman games this from now on. you've invented a new genre anon congrats
>>742247893Doom clone makes perfect sense.
>>742248281>>742251134Simple definition. Does it have RPG mechanics?No: Metroidlike.Yes. Metroidvania. So Hollow Knight and Cave Story are Metroidlikes, while SotN is a Metroidvania.
>>742251128They don't. There's a specific aspect of immersive simulation that they lack.>>742250815 is very close, and correctly identifies the two strongest candidates for codifying the genre. Thief is THE immersive sim, so what does that game do, which others do not?
>>742249437I hate the name "immersive sim" with a passion. It means literally nothing.Where did it even come from? It feels like it appeared out of nowhere in the past couple of years.
>>742251013Smash bros being called a fighting game when its very clearly in the vein of beat em ups. Smash will never fit the fighting game genre better than it does beat 'em up.
>>742251225Search Action is the term some Japanese Devs were trying to push instead of Metroidlike/Metroidvania. I don't think anyone likes it.
>>742251087It's funny because they have shit like gundam versus at FGC events but they don't have the same stigma as smash and despised as much. Even though they are similar in the way nobody who plays traditional fighters plays gundam and vice versaIt's weird to think about
>>742250983>>742251261what definition is this going off of
>>742251279Came from Warren Spectre at Looking Glass 40years ago
>>742251225I like the search part, but feel action isnt distinct enough.>Search Progression>Search and Run>Danger SearchFuck if I know a better choice.
>>742249437If you can flush an in-game toilet - it's an imsim. That's pretty much the only requirement.
>>742247893>roguelikeis fine when it's actually LIKE rogue but we have a term for those already. Mystery Dungeon.>doom cloneIt's pretty self-explanatory and there's a clear difference between DOOM and a normal FPS>metroidvaniaSince technically the two can be totally different as Castlevania falls into two categories itself(Igavania/Classicvania - Linear with no backtracking and SOTN clones that are more inline with Metroid's style of navigation). So it's kind of off to make that the official term when you're technically excluding an entire section of games with the Vania part when you really just mean the SOTN style games)
>>742251261Its the reactivity, but thats why I stand by modern fallout/elder scrolls being within the genre. The world's are built to be reactive, even if they dont do a good job all the time.
>>742251249Castlevania 2 has RPG mechanics, so yes by your definition it is a metroidvania.
turn based is the most retarded one, especially since even some games like FF arent actually turn basedjaps use command battle, that's a better term
>>742251313Mine. It is by far the best, the most comprehensive and useful out of everything I've read, heard, and thought about and you plebs just can't into it for whatever reason.
>>742251417mystery dungeon is a roguelike game series, it's not a genre or a term
>>742247816YOU CALL IT ALVIN AND PUT A CHIPMUNK ON THE COVER!
>>742251456castlevania 2 is an action platformer with rpg mechanics. it doesn't have metroid-like design
>RoguelikeA game that tries to be as close to the original Rogue as possible.
>>742251398No. CV-11 said Postal 2 is an imsim because you leave bloody footprints after wading through the corpses of your victims. It was a joke, but so is yours.
>>742251303The anti-smash stuff is like 90% butthurt and sour grapes. After SF2 and until SF4 and then SF6 fighting games were niche and borderline dead most of the time. Even MK was hard capped at about 4mill copies until SF4 blew the market up, most SNK games, anime fighters or whatever else would barely sell more than a million, if that. So, for most years, Smash wasn't just the biggest fighting game it was pretty much the only successful fighting game. So people's egos got bruised. The rest, stuff like "They have their own community, separate from the FGC" is true to some extent but that was also true of a bunch of anime fighters too. DBZ was a huge example of that and nobody complained about that.
>>742251456No it's an action RPG there's no Metroid or SotN elements.
>>742251419Reactivity is not required, it's just a nice reward for playing a well made game.
>>742250465>you already know it when you see it>two distinctive qualities immersion and simulationEVERY FUCKING GAME IS SIMULATING SOME KIND OF SYSTEM AND CAN BE IMMERSIVE. WHAT THE FUCK DOES THE TERM MEAN?Is it any game where there is some kind of branching path in the level design? Is it any game where NPCs react to what you do? Is any RPG game ever made an immersive sim or does it need a first person or third person over the shoulder perspective? Is the Wizardry series an immersive sim because it's first person and you can freely traverse each floor and you can interact with NPCs/enemies however you want? Why is System Shock considered an immersive sim if there is next to no player agency or choice in the way you progress the game and the environment is largely uninteractive? Are sandbox games like GTA immersive sims? Are narrative games like David Cage or Life is Strange immersive sims? Is Undertale an immersive sim? Are racing games with realistic physics or job simulators immersive sims? What systems does an immersive sim need to simulate to be immersive enough? Physics? Lighting? Dialogue trees? Skill trees and abilities? Why does this "genre" encompass the majority of games ever released?
>>742247927Nightcore fucking rules, you absolute fustilarian mouth drooling retard
>>742249498Nah, that's easyBullet Hell = player suffers means you dodge hundreds if not thousands of bulletsBullet Heaven = player curb stomps and kills everything in sight.Heaven = kill everythingHell = tries to kill you
>>742251282literally designed to be a fighting game, and built off fighting game conventions but ok
>>742251419>>742251598A persistent world goes a long way toward earning the title, but Thief(again, the definitive example) doesn't even do this to a meaningful degree. GTA3 does reactivity better than Thief, and is pretty close to an imsim itself.
>>742248325There's a fuckton of anime OPs that sound amazing when I'm watching them at my normal kinographic 1.5x only to find them far less appealing when I go to download the standard version after the season ends.Same deal with slowed or pitched down versions of certain songs actually, the standard's just okay but I unironically love the version of Video Killed the Radio Star in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAG6Y7xe6BY
>>742251417at the time it was invented doomclone was just fps
>>742247816Roguelike by far. Every single example of a modern """roguelike""" completely crumbles when you ask "how is it like Rogue?"
>>742251540it is very much a nonlinear exploration-focused action platformer with rpg elements, more befitting of the metroidvania title than any indieslop that gets called one
>>742251678Immersive Sim basically isn't a real genre, it's nonsense. Specre was ahead of the pack, creating amazing games that pushed the industry forward, but he didn't invent a new genre.
>>742251303Catherine too
>>742251329Nobody called Deus Ex an "imsim", hell, even when the new Prey was coming out in 2017 it wasn't called that. It's such a video game essay term, someone must have dug it up more recently.
>>742251768It's basically just the same as Zelda 1 or Zelda 2
>>742251789Quote from Warren Spectre:>Conceptually, Deus Ex is a genre-busting game (which really endeared us to the marketing guys) -- part immersive simulation, part role-playing game, part first-person shooter, part adventure game.https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/postmortem-ion-storm-s-i-deus-ex-i-
>>742247816Character action.
>>742249314How is MUD in any context even 20% crazy?
>>742251678Well imsims are simulating "the real world" or at least close to it, with their clearly unrealistic world building thrown on top. Life is strange and undertale are not immersive. Driving games simulate driving but don't simulate a world or have world building. gta would be the closest candidate. I don't know if everything resets or pops in like the old ones or if it has internal continuity now. Why are david cage games not imsims? Well no guns, fighting, stealth weird powers, the foreign world. Imsim is basically fpsrpg though some can be third person and there are more know it when you see it elements.
>>742251789>>742251973Huh, seems like Spectre didn't invent the term, and didn't like it. Tom: The other thing I'm excited for for the future of immersive sims: I hope we come up with a better name. [laughs]PC Gamer: I was actually going to ask, I don't know if it's common knowledge where the term came from. Was it a Kieron Gillen-coined term, or if it predated his writing on the genre.Warren: I think Doug Church was the one who came up with that, isn't he? He's the first person I ever heard use it.Harvey: I don't know, I remember a conversation with Rob Fermier, I think on Twitter, where we were trying to figure out where that term had come from. I think Rob's conclusion was that he first heard it from Doug, as well. Warren: Yeah, and we all hated it! It fell out of favor for awhile and recently it seems like it's come back. It's really odd.PC Gamer: Has anyone come up with a description they like better?Warren: No.Ricardo: I don't know if it's better, but when we're talking generally with the press or gamers we avoid the term, because it sounds very inside baseball. We say first-person games with depth, instead, and then elaborate from there. But it is a bit technical.Harvey: I like FPS-RPG hybrid.Ricardo: Yeah, that works too.Warren: Genre mash-up, yeah!PC Gamer: So maybe by 2020 we'll have decided on a new name for the immersive sim. Well, I wish we could keep doing this. I could literally do this all day, makes my job easy. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for joining me! We should do it again. Maybe we can make it an annual immersive sim roundtable.Warren: Sounds great. I'll have something to talk about next year.https://www.pcgamer.com/the-designers-of-dishonored-bioshock-2-and-deus-ex-swap-stories-about-making-pcs-most-complex-games/3/
>>742251973>>742251789Yes thats when it was invented but it wasn't popularized till a few years ago.
>"Puzzle" game>Wow I can't wait to solve all those puzzles like I did in Baba Is You, or Stephen's Sausage Roll!>look inside>there are no fucking puzzles, it's not a puzzle game, it's just an arcade reflex tester that requires more than 2 braincells
>>742249314MOBA should be in 100% crazy. 'Multiplayer Online Battle Arena' could describe nearly anything that isn't a reductive RTS, even just saying 'Dota clone' is more descriptive.
Calling the soft bumpy shoulder buttons "triggers" and the clicky buttons "bumpers". They function literally the opposite of what they are named. Someone made a mistake naming them sometime ago and now no one wants to admit they've been wrong for decades.
>>742252241One of the only things Sony did right. Using numbers instead of terms. R1 R2You know they're on the right, you know R1 is in front and R2 is behind it. There'd be no confusion over Trigger or Bumper since it's simply numbers
>>742248603The Vampire Survicors dev is calling it a survivathon now.
>>742247816"Immersive Sim", for FPS-RPG.
>>742251678>What systems does an immersive sim need to simulate to be immersive enough?This is a direct question, worthy of an answer. Ask and you shall receive, satisfaction not guaranteed:It's not exactly about systems, though that is one of the simplest ways to create immersion. Again, Thief. Garrett is a master burglar and a competent assassin if not a warrior. But when you play the game, his prowess as a criminal is only equal to your own. You have to clean up your own bloodpuddles, you have to observe your surroundings. Garrett doesn't even close his eyes when he tosses a flashbang, you have to physically turn him away from the light or he'll just blind himself.You have to BE the thief. You have to think and act as a criminal. It's not roleplaying, it's how the game fucking works. Yes, you can clown your way through the campaign, you can just brute force a mission through trial and error, but if that's how you're gonna play, why aren't you playing something with more explosions and titties and microtransactions?GTA: you're also a criminal, and thinking like a criminal will improve your play and enrich your experience. Immersion isn't something you have, it's something you have to DO.
>>742252318>L3 and R3 are never labeled on the peripheral itself
>>742248417It actually refers to very cheap Australian wine that often comes in bags.
>>742249482That's why you call them hack-and-slash ARPG
>>742247816Metroidvania since Castlevania had no impact on the formula and Super Metroid had already solidified it's qualities long before Castlevania Symphony of the Night even started development.I also hate Immersive sim and think that people should use my superior name, Advanced Underworld Type Interactivity SIM.
>>742251082Why are bitter uncs always seething about Fromkino
>>742248664Is edging but edgier
>>742252241Have you ever seen a trigger? Must be european.
>>742252241>triggersSister?
>>742248464Gooning is glorified edging (aka you repeatedly stop stroking when you're about to cum, but extended to multiple hours) while fapping is just nonstop jerking until you cum."I goon to inflated feral dragons" vs. "I fapped to Renamon".
>>742248791>masterbation fetishPretty meta if you ask me.
>>742248603It's danmaku.
>>742252445the vania was justed added so they wouldn't have to tag on some gay ass word like "like"
>>742247942That's why you use roguelike as a qualifier, like open world. It's not a roguelike, it's a roguelike FPS or a roguelike action platformer
>>742252445Super Metroid was just copying older adventure platformers like Dizzy but with guns.
>>742247816It was called chimpmunks actually
>>742252572Also I'm pretty sure bumpers come from pinball so yes they look exactly like that.
>>742252528Dark Souls is my second favorite game. You just walked up in front of me while I was having a piss and got piss on you. Thirsty ass bitch, open wide.
>>742248603Arcade survival is a way worse name, totally meaningless vaguery on the level of action adventure. At least bullet heaven sounds cool.
>>742251082Yes it is.Demon Souls is the origin of the style, Dark Souls continued it which is where it gets the name from. Faggots shoe in borne onto the end of the name because of Bloodborne even though it’s already based off the progenitor
>>742249314>0% Crazy (What you see is what you get)>Puzzlei bought a puzzle game. am i getting an arcade stack blocker, a strictly mechanical logical experience like Zachtronics games, or something like picrel, a detective game where i have to solve riddles with clues?shut the fuck up you braindead animeposting shithead
>>742251417i'd say that mystery dungeon is a (mostly japanese) subgenre of roguelike and the actual mystery dungeon series is about as old as the term roguelike. i wouldn't call games like hack variants, adom, moria etc mystery dungeons
>>742249482This is why calling Diablo a Hack-and-slash is far more accurate.
>>742252439>hack and slash>play ranger/wizardNow what?
>>742248417It actually annoys me a bit that knuckle-draggers think that gooning is the same as fapping.
>>742248603Auto-shooter is the only alternative I'd accept, since it's basically a twin-stick shooter where all guns fire automatically. Bullet heaven works fine, however
>>742252860Bloodborne is different enough that it adds flexibility to the concept, while still gatekeeping the term "soulsborne". Otherwise we'd have to use Sekiro or Nioh to be any kind of concise about it, and I fucking dare you to make a snappy portmanteau out of that shit.You're also disregarding the actual mechanisms of linguistic evolution. Demon's Souls is irrelevant because A. no one played that shit until after Dark Souls and B. we didn't fucking need a name for the genre because there was no fucking genre. Put down the sperg semantics, mine's bigger.
>>742248926I think "x-like" is inherently an awful naming convention. Once a game establishes a new genre, that genre will always expand beyond the game. So instead of saying "metroid-like but with RPG elements" or "doom-like but with two axis of aiming", it makes sense to name the genre something else
>>742253052>Ranger shoots swords for some reason>Wizard summons spectral bladesNot a problem
>>742249237The fact that "arcade game" would refer to anything from House of the Dead to Q*bert to Frogger to Rally X to Pac-Man proves it's a fucking awful genre name
>>742252898Uh oh melty
>>742252898I'd argue that last one is firmly in the adventure category
>>742253052You know what? Hack-and-slash-and-stab-and-pierce-and-shoot-and-burn-and-freeze-and-shock-and-in-any-other-manner-inflict-damage-on-enemies-in-a-fast-and-violent-way ARPG really rolls of the tongue
>>742247919>Not a single swastika >Hammer and Sickle in the background This was a redditor who drew this
>>742253381soulslike has been the bane of all genre names ever since it was conceived. comparison is the thief of joy and holy shit does nobody steal joy like souls faggots. everything is SOULS everything must relate to SOULS. anything 3D with a sword and dodging is SOULSimagine if you called every 3D fighter "tekken-likes" instead of just 3D fighter or every plane game "ace combat-likes" that's how fucking retarded soulslike sounds to me forever
>>742252812>totally meaningless vaguery on the level of action adventureNot really. An adventure game is about exploration, finding items/abilities, and then using those items/abilities to solve puzzles or challenges and progress to new areas. Add action to that, and you've got gone from Day of the Tentacle to Zelda. It actually makes perfect sense. The problem is when the industry slaps it on any game it can't find a better genre for, since "well, it has action, and the story is a bit adventure-ish, right?" Don't blame the genre for retards being retarded
>>742253735isometric action gamethere
>>742253851Nah there are so many more genre conventions required than that.
>>742253532>what is a puzzle>you put some things together to achieve a goalgreat definition, absolutely not vague as fuck>meltymy passion comes from the heart beating in my chest as i am ALIVE. you are an animeposting shit-for-brains who is dead inside and will soon also be dead outside when you ROPE
>>742253997Mystic Tower is my favorite Diablo-like
>>742248603That's pretty cool actually.
>>742253997Fallout 1? XCom? Command & Conquer?
>>742253851I feel like soulslike is a perfectly fine way to describe combat, but shouldn't be used as a genre
>>742247893>metroidvaniayeah this unless it's referring to a castlevania game
>>742253747>He doesn't know
>>742247816character action game is by far the dumbest genre name, I've been fighting against it since retards started saying it in the early 10's but it stuck around.
>>742253887The definition is too vague and fits too many games to be useful. The point of genres is the filter out as many unwanted as possible.
>>742254350It's a Japanese thing, since they're the ones that made all the big games in the genre. Like someone mentioned earlier, they call metroidvania search action. It's just how they are
>>742254431How so? Adventure isn't to vague, and it's more than half of what makes up an action adventure. But sure, add "can't be an RPG" if you want, since that's certainly true
>>742248417I remember when gooning was in reference to Something Awful users. "Goons". Or for goonstation on ss13.But then I'm an old ass guy who still refers to "fapping" when that has been virtually erased from internet language.
>>742254185none of those are action games. they are RPG's or strategy games
>>742254574define "action" in the context of games
>>742254185DIABLO, YOU ASS
>>742254602Shut the actual fuck up.
>>742248183>platformers require the player to jump>he hasn't played Snake Pass
>>742254661lol you got nothing
>>742254695You weren't even asking me, and I got plenty, you're just a nuisance. Tell me you're literally retarded and maybe we can start over, because that's your only excuse.
Behead anyone that uses the term "immersive sim" for a game.
>>742254827why u mad?
>>742251685>Oh hey here's that song you like except with a gayer rhythm and sung by a fucking chipmunk
>>742248542>>742248739A global commendation Your post get highlighted pink on the catty because you are to be commended for your post
I like nightcore
>>742254242its more genrey though>cryptic storytelling>random haphazard punishments>somewhat interconnectivity>environmental difficulty, not ai difficulty>slower more methodical combat while in battle>slow approach, or pre approach game before combat>rpg elements or character progression for fighting but not roleplaying>light roleplaing elements>big focus on adventure
>>742255013So a 3D metroidvania?
>>742253887>An adventure game is about exploration, finding items/abilities, and then using those items/abilities to solve puzzles or challenges and progress to new areasIt'd be hard to find games of any genre that this description doesn't apply to beyond purely abstract gameplay focussed stuff like Tetris or zero gameplay stuff like VNs or walking sims.
>>742254695reaction tests for one
>>742255078p much
>>742252439Wrong. Hack n Slash games are 3rd person.
Not a genre but>Regular playthrough of a game, sometimes even a bit quicker>EY ESE THAS TOO LONG AMIGO TACO TACO IS A LONGPLAY IT TAKES TOO LOOOOOONG I HAVE THE ADHD HOMBRE
>>742248994>shibbolethyou having a stroke bro?
>>742255083I mean, you could start with excluding most if not all strategy games. RPGs might have a few puzzles or required items (e.g. keys), but that's not the focus of those games, and the conventions a genre describes is meant to be the core of any game within that genre. Platformers aren't usually about exploration either, since most are linear, and outside of a few where you get permanent upgrades, they're also not about collecting items or abilities that are necessary for progression. Hell, the fact that everyone can accept the adventure genre kind of proves my point here. If adventure mechanics are so broad, then why hasn't this been an issue before?
>>742254661kek you got absolutely buttblasted
>>742249314>Metroidvania. Requires knowledge of two genresno, it just requires knowledge of metroid's genre. Castlevania contributed nothing to the genre other than making devs realize metroid wasn't the only IP that could use it.
>>742255142Mean we're back to "soulslike" referring to combat, since the actual genre of Dark Souls is 3D metroidvania
>>742255309Why don't you use google instead of being performatively ignorant?
>>742248417goon is the thug that works for the big bad guy actually
>>742255309it means dogwhistle
>>742247816the nortubel genre
>>742247816Multiplayer online battle arenaWhat the fuck does that mean, that describes almost every multiplayer videogames.League just couldn't call themselves a DOTAlike because then people might have just gone and played that instead
>>742247942Most of them don’t even have real permadeath.Metaprogression has gotten so out of hand that death is basically meaningless
>>742255403You're a poor judge of emotion, even for the internet. I'm only beginning to lose my cool because I've wasted eighteen hours on this shithole website today.
>>742255468last i checked this was an english speaking message board, so if anything you're the one being performative by pointlessly throwing in foreign words for attention.
>>742248183The core defining elements of rogue were delving into a multi floor dungeon on a square turn based gridI wouldn't even consider permadeath a mandatory part of the genre but now we have people acting like it's the defining element
>>742255179That's hack-and-slash action, not hack-and-slash ARPG
>>742255468>>742255509these posters are not cute
>>742255606
>>742255654and thats a farming sim
>>742255606It's a loan word and I'm not the guy who said it, I just find anti-intellectual posturing like yours annoying.
>>742247816metroidvania is a stupid genre name and its insane that SotN, a game that came out a decade later than metroid, gets to share top billing with metroid as if they had equal inspiration to the genre.that would be like calling breath of the wild a grand theft minecraft 3 game because its open world and you combine items you find in the world to make a stew or whatever.the real genre name should be called mapkey games, because everything you get is functionally a key and you use it to explore and unlock new areas of the map you fill out.>but in SotN number goes up!!!ok, mapkey rpg then, fuck off.
>>742255698hm I wonder what the early usage of this word was like
>>742255438How come there are a lot of people who prefer Metroid over Castlevania or vice versa, if the two are so similar they're basically copies? Castlevania introduced RPG elements (xp, levels, gear, etc.). That's not "nothing"
>>742255606it's not foreignyou're just an uneducated dimwit
>>742255743>mapkeythis is why you people dont name genres
>>742255569Those are progressive roguelikes. They're not the same as regular roguelikes. For games that actually play like Rogue we use traditionally roguelikeIt's not confusing at all
>>742255764>Castlevania introduced RPG elements (xp, levels, gear, etc.). That's not "nothing"it kind of is, considering none of those are genre staples. plenty of indie roguelikes omit them completely.
>>742255818why does me being right hurt your feelings so much
>>742255832>roguelikeswhoops, meant metroidvanias.
>>742255719A hack-and-slash farming sim
>Devil May Cry>Bayonetta>etc>listed as Hack and Slash on wikipedia>even AI calls them hack and slash>trannies desperately trying to push their "spectacle fighter" and "character action" genres that some faggy youtuber came up withThey will always be called hack and slash games. Wikipedia won.
>>742255842Mapkey? sounds like a point and click adventure game. Not a shooty shooty tunnel parkorer.
>>742255743Why not just call them what they are, action-adventure platformers? For Castlevania it would be action-adventure-platformer RPG
>>742255894spectacle fighter is actually good though
>>742255965probably because metroidvania rolls off the tongue way better than "action adventure platformer" and has two decades of usage behind it already.
>>742255832Hence why it's called "metroidvania": some games copy Metroid, some Castlevania, but they all have the same core
>>742255965How is mario not an action adventure platformer?
>>742255990eh, the enemies don't really fight back, should be "spectacle juggler".
>>742255894Only spectacle fighter is from a YTer, character action was popularized by Hideki Kamiya
>>742255606last i checked, english is a mutt language consisting of mostly french, latin and other germanic languages with a teeny tiny bit of actual english sprinkled in there
>>742256008Spot on>>742256038Since when is Mario an adventure game?
>>742256026They actually all copy metroid (ironically except castlevania which copies zelda) the term was origionally describing igavanias then got comandeered for metroidlikes
>>742255953point and click adventure games should be point and click puzzle games.>>742255965because ninja gaiden, or contra, or even a turrican can me an action adventure platformer, its too broad.
>>742247919This made me nostalgic you old roodypoo
>>742256110since he goes on an adventure? so super mario bros nes
>>742256069He says J action now
>>742256165Going on an adventure doesn't make something an adventure game, or basically all RPGs would be adventure games. Stop being silly
>>742247942and yet that qualifier consistently lets me know that i dont want to play any of those games, so its doing its job perfectly.
Cozy games.
>>742256128Because metroidlike is stupid and too narrow. Hell, not even all Metroid games play like the original Metroid. Just look at Fusion
>>742256152>because ninja gaiden, or contra, or even a turrican can me an action adventure platformer, its too broad.Contra isn't an adventure game, what the fuck? Haven't played the other two, but putting Contra and Grim Fandango in the same box make absolutely no sense
>>742256204I actually prefer that
>>742247942>>742255569Yes vast majority of the "roguelikes" are completely mislabeled and should be called Cookie Clickers instead. Because they are just molasses slow stat farmers. Replace baking a cookie with 1 run.
>>742256152>point and click adventure games should be point and click puzzle games.Puzzle game offer a series of puzzles. Adventure game hide the puzzles behind theming and exploration. Baba is You and Monkey Island don't play the same, and don't appeal to the same people
>>742256412thought you would have said deckbuilders
Nightcore isn’t just speeding up the song. It also adds more bass and increases the pitch.
>>742249437From what I played and heard the immersive sim is defined by being able to shoot while crouching in a game.
>>742249326>>742249460monster hunter has better combat than souls games. Dark souls/Elden ring even copies shit from monster hunter.
>>742256649Imm sim isn't a genre, it's a design philosophy. I forgot what dev said that, but it's the only approach that makes sense, unless you want to call Minecraft an imm sim
>>742256649call of duty?
>"""metroidbrainia""">look inside>normal game but there are some shortcuts you can take if you know themWow I am so smart and a genius!
>>742256678Huh I guess thats why capcom wins so many lifetime achievement awards...
>>742248417Nah, it's fapping wacking or cooming, "goon" was literally created to say the same but less obvious so you don't get flagged on xitter and reddit.
>>742249482Your gripe is with the term RPG itself which you have come to terms with has meant its own individual thing for 30 fucking years and doesn't mean "I am such a nerd sitting at a table with other nerds drawing numbers on a sheet of paper"
>>742249314>>90% Crazy>4X, MOBA, ASSFAGGOTS, CRPG, JRPG, TRPG, SRPGI think you may just be very very stupid
Yeah I knew a mere peon would trust the (((experts))). DONE.
>>742256715Hitman is an immersive sim. Personally I define them by having>a strong mechanical logic>various game mechanics for progression>comparably open design for players to find their own routes and approaches to problems
>>742256957So Breath of the Wild and Minecraft are both imm sims?
I can tell you one thing though. If you cannot lean in your Tactical Shooter, then its not a tactical shooter. Simple as.
>>742256726Not my problem. That is the overlap between all imsims.
