Why do JRPG fans hate their own games so much? What's up with that
>>742615403Kill yourself twitternigger
>>742615403I agree on real-time actions being ass, they detract heavily from the RP since no longer does your characters DEX or AGI stats tell you how apt they are, but it's instead your own dexterity which determines it. His other points seem moot though, fleeing has almost always been an option anyway. If the grind of a game isn't enjoyable, play something else - but encountering enemies so weak they don't even give you exp, you should be able to auto-complete, avoid or skip combat in some way.
>>742615403its impossible to improve on perfection, stop trying to, you only make it worse, turn based was perfected in the 90s
>>742616029This. Ideally grinding should exist as a jrpg's difficulty modifier. If you can't git gud and beat the boss at the normal level, you trade your time in exchange for an easier fight. An encounter that does not provide the player a challenge or a reward is bad game design.
>>742615403e-celebs are not video games.
>>742615403The QoL feature I would like most turn-based RPGs to try to implement is making the menus as snappy and easy to navigate as possible.One may think P5 with each action being already mapped to a button (which itself is already pretty good), but I'm thinking more of Bravely Default and Second, where you move through menus super fast with the d-pad and triggers.
>>742616263Grind should also not simply being "make number go up", but planning and moving your character builds towards the setup you have in mind, in exchange for time but ideally also resources. I like it when grinding isn't free but has some risk built in, unless you find an intermediary party setup for the grind, which also poses fun mechanical considerations
OH BOY, ANOTHER TUMBLRSKY SCREENCAP THREAD
Damn bro it's almost like JRPGs aren't about the combat or gameplay that's crazy.
>>742616443How about voice commands?
>>742615403>Taking the opinions of some faggot that only loves Arcade games and does not even give a shit about other genresIt's funny how boghog and his cult here pretend that they're different when modern developers love making dogshit and easy beat em ups or shmups and even concede to the audience itself where they demand infinite continues (like what happened to final vendetta). He should finish his shitty beat em up before he even say anything, and if boghog is reading this then I will say his original draft for armed decobot was way better than making a beat em up.
>>742615403turn-based combat is heavily limited and why action is better. Not to mention FF7 Rebirth has the best combat an Rpg has ever seen.
>>742615403Combat sucks because balance sucks, you can't balance turn based combat in a game with 99 levels.The solution is simple, Armored Core approach, you don't get levels you unlock different gear that do things different but not necessarily better and have to build your team to function somehow.There is a good reason why Darkest Dungeon was so successful despite devs best attempts to make people hate it.
>>742616651>Not to mention FF7 Rebirth has the best combat an Rpg has ever seenShut the fuck up retard
>>742616775If I wanted to play a game with aspects similiar to Rogue I'd play a game with aspects simliar to Rogue, not a turnbased RPG.
Pacing is everything and 8-bit era JRPGs understood that better than most. Constant story interruptions are lame, getting nonstop raped by random battles is a good thing, it forces strategy lest you be wiped out.
I played a porn game called Monster Girl 1,000 a while ago that actually managed to make standard JRPG combat interesting by making status effects very useful.You had one party member who could apply denial effects (like stun, silence, blind, etc) one who could augment aspects of allies and enemies (like haste or slow, taunting, increasing defense) and one who was a magical specialist who could apply elemental resistances, do damage, and heal allies.It was a lot of fun to try and plan out exactly what you should do with each turn, and which weapons, armor, and blessings you'd bring since they would all drastically change how battle worked. (blessings are basically Materia rewards for getting sex scenes that give themed bonuses based on the girls or the male MC)I want a game that feels like that that I can recommend to other people, and isn't made with like four different art styles with stock RPG maker assets, and janky 2022 AI art mixed in with the actually top tier art that the developer does pretty well.
>>742616901I don't care what you want to play, if you aren't satisfied with classic JRPG combat this is the only other approach that works and every other attempt at "fixing" JRPG combat will fail.If you don't like either approach then the genre might not be for you.
JRPGs just tend to be a little too mindless on the whole. More games should do the deck builder thing, and actually punish you for building a bad deck.
>>742617279>More games should do the deck builder thing, and actually punish you for building a bad deck.You're asking for a roguelite where you then minmax the build and then fail if you don't get certain cards from your deck and have to start over, which is pretty gay.
>>742617085>getting nonstop raped by random battles is a good thing, it forces strategy lest you be wiped out.what strategy is me from fighting so many low tier monsters in a row where i then spam attack so I can get it over with after I leveled up? Also 8-bit JRPGs are also the most brainless and piss easy games on par with this gen, they're just more basic and the reason the pacing is "tight" is because they couldn't fit more in a cartridge.
>>742617418The strategy comes from gauging how far you can go into the next dungeon before having to retreat. What items to use and when, which spells are worth spending MP on.
>>742616648Don't worry anon, I hate that guy even harder than you. Him and mork ruined shmup discourse here permanently, or at least it will stay ruined for a long time.t. shmup/arcade enjoyer tired of everyone's shit and who just likes the funny pew pew games
>>742617557I never played Phantasy Star so I won't comment on it, but most 8-bit JRPGs you can just brute force the game by stocking up on items and just wearing the best equipment from each town you visit.
JRPGs are the way they are because of console limitations. Complaining about them is like saying how horse riding seems impractical vs having a car.
>>742615403This isnt even coherent
>>742615403The only way to improve JRPGs is if they all copy Final Fantasy V combat and job system.
Blame Mario RPG toddlers who think that adding a Simon Says minigame to turn based combat is peak JRPG design.
>>742616443>extensive party building system>your goal for the game is to set it up and turn it into a auto battler >unless you use the very limited social aspect stuff, which is the only way to get past the damage limit of 9999, which turns it into evne more of a shitty auto battler Fucking Square Enix.
>>742618008It's called Crystal Project which is also the most boring game imaginable because there's no stakes and you just randomly explore the world for no reason besides "make your own adventure".
>>742618096It's 2026, we can blame E33fags for that now.
>>742618208Wait this was a painting all along? I thought it was a 3D model. Interesting.
>>742618208>your goal for the game is to set it up and turn it into a auto battlerWelcome to the shitty genre known as JRPG and the cancer rpg progression mechanics that exist in every AAA game. Leveling up stats in any game is an enforced easy mode and is why the genre will forever be terrible, the reward is always lower player engagement
>>742618424Its a 3D model painted over in left and right perspectives, which is layered.
>>742618517I wish we still got games with pre-rendered or painted backgrounds. Much cheaper to render and looks better than a lot of modern games.
There is always this classic as well.
>>742618441Some people want more depth than what you get in a 20 minute quarter muncher.
Are there JRPG's with builds?
>>742618223well, then add some steaks? The FFV villain btfos the protagonists every step of the way and once he gets the ball rolling turns entire continents into a black hole and it's awesome.
>>742618708>number go up if time invested go up>depthIf you actually gave a shit about depth jrpgs would be the absolute last genre you would be playing.
>>742619025>number go up if time invested go upSounds like arcade games, only the fans of those think they're genius because a youtuber told them it was heckin peak.
>>742618656It's always so surreal to see aduts struggling with games I beat at 9yo.
>>742618718Only a few indies like Crystal Project. Outside of that, not really, unless you're willing to count fringe games like Stranger of Paradise. JRPGs are just puzzle games that can be solved.
>>742616110>turn based was perfected in the 90sBy which games?
>>742619065Who the fuck are you talking to? Some eceleb youtuber who lives rent free in your mind? I never once said that shitty coinslop arcade games were deep.
>>742615403Just play Enchanted Farm and be done with it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWpRiLEPRB0
keep the twatter conversation in twatter, nigger
>>742615403>pedoskykys tranny
i like turn based combat if it's actually goodmost (as in 99% of the time), not only is it not good but it's:>hurr use fire spell on the fire weak enemy to do a million more damage>over abundance of consumables>''''boss'''' moveset consists of high single target damage move, aoe move, cc move>moves and/or party members that are 800x better than the other options>cc moves that are either not worth using against bosses or not worth using everabsolute slop dogshit
Is that the guy who started the retarded arcade vs RPG discussion?Who the fuck ever thought like that, I always played and enjoyed bothModern game design is the issue, not RPGs.
Every single thread that begins with some faggy screenshot of a news article or a twitter post should be nuked on sight. Kill all twitter niggers.
>>742619412the impression i get from enchant farm is that it's like magic tower games where there's no actual strategy because it's effectively an abstracted math problem and that it's actually just a knowledge check where it all falls apart if you know what the answer is
>>742615403-have all characters active in the party>b-but I want to bloat to 20 playable characters who all suffer for writing and gameplay!!Yeah kill yourself-have a timeline bar that shows any changes on the timeline of your characters and the enemies when hovering a move-(optional but neat) have a slight delay on the timeline between inputting a turn and executing the turn for extra tension-add light srpg elements by having the battle take part on a tiled field to have positioning matter to hit aoe and avoid big boss moves-
When did people become too stupid for jrpgs?
>>742621657Yeah no shit all turn based RPGs are abstracted math problems retard
>>742621929Probably when games started adding "Pretend you won" buttons or 7 different clutch mechanics to make sure you won't ever face any adversity.But from what I can tell, most people who played JRPGs only got through by grinding above the expected player levels.
>>742616029I think they have a place in real-time. For example, I think a melee character should never be able to access any parry/counter mechanics, unless their DEX passes a certain threshhold. Once it does, those abilities unlock, and more DEX can be used to determine success rate of trickier sub-abilities related to them and things like that.Similarly, AGI can work that way for ranged weapons/abilities. It can also open dodge-based ability trees regardless, etc.Stats are ultimately what the designer makes of them. As long as the combat system is designed in such a way that such abilities are useful, and you can feel the trade-off to not having access, real-time can make use of them fine. That may be a tough ask for modern devs though.
Recommend me the following:a 4 niggas in a row game with really in depth and strategic character building? I am talking ARPG type skill-trees in a more traditional turn-based console role playing game. andA 4 niggas in a row game that is actually hard from the beginning but can be beaten with good tactics and minimal repetitive grinding
>>742621929zoomers, as the worst generation ever, of all time, are so adhd-addled they don't have the attention span necessary to think their way through jrpgs and need their hand held through even the simplest of tasks
>>742622348crystal project maybe
>>742615403Chrono Cross had the perfect system, whole party gets stronger after every boss but there's enough strategy and team building to keep it interesting.If it had more optional bosses it would be even better, that way you could get stronger with new interesting encounters instead of fighting the same enemies over and over.
>>742615403>DISCUSS THIS TWITTER SCREENCAPOP and everybody who seriously responded to OP with actual answers should be tied up and set on fire.
>>742622348You don't really want any of that
>>742622545>Chrono Cross had the perfect systemWhy the fuck do you lie? This is one of the biggest criticisms of the game, that progression is gated to story encounters>enough strategy and team buildingfucking lolMost party members' unique abilities are just flavorful fluff that ultimately mean nothing. Their elemental affinities are meaningless in the long run so "team building" just amounts to picking whoever you think looks the coolest and setting their magical system up the same way so they play the exact fucking same as everybody else.
>>742615403i see 'hog on the 'log, i bump, that simple
>>742622630>STOP TALKING ABOUT VIDEO GAMESFuck off back to the stellar blade thread.
>>742622730Fuck you I liked it.
4 niggas in a row casualized the genre.RETVRN to 6 niggas in 2 rows.
>>742615403>real time elementsno thanks, theyre neat occasionally but i'd get sick of them fast if they were in every game>on-field encountersThis is a good one usually. being able to see enemies in something like DQ and determining whether or not to engage is fun, and makes sighting something like a silver slime more exciting>Skipping low level encountersShould be standard, no idea why its not. there is no benefit to fighting a lvl 5 mob at lvl 80. you get near zero XP. Even in games with real time combat, low level mobs are just an annoyance and offer little challenge outside or reward>None of these actually improve the combat, they're suggestions to avoid itits the same with every combat system. Even a well designed and thought provoking combat system loses its luster when done in extreme repetition; i like playing solitaire, but if i had to play a game of solitaire every 10 seconds for little reward, it'd get pretty stale.Thats why an important part of JRPGs where grinding is a staple, is in the ability of the game to be able to optimize the combat to make grinding more comfy instead of grating. Disgaea for example lets you turn off the animations and skip transitions and you're also constantly improving little bits of your character/gear, so its nice to kick back and grind. You are minimizing downtime while also constantly getting rewarded for doing so.
>>742615403Two mechanics that improves decision making in turn based combat that I really like and are rarely used are teammember swap mid-battle and cooldowns. The former requires HP and MP values balanced around it (backline characters restore HP, MP and status ailments over time). The latter requires a bunch of different skills, with the best example I can think of being ToMe. Other examples that had interesting things going on with their combat were Atlantica Online and Path of the Abyss, granted one could argue their novel mechanics impacted more theorycrafting/pre-battle preparations rather than combat itself.
>OH MY GOD THIS GAME DOESN'T PLAY LIKE A SIMPLE ARCADE GAME MORK SAVE ME AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHA
>>742622702Why don't I?
fpbpps this isn't usual. Souls fans hate the Souls genre more than anybody else. they play all the Soulslikes and then bitch they're not as good as Souls even though if FROMsoft put out a Souls game without their name attached that game would be shit on to. They don't like Souls games, they like the PREPARE TO DIE Capcom marketing campaign that meant they were "hardcore gamers" for playing Dark Souls.
>>742615403>JRPG "fans"
>>742615403>blueskygo back pedophile
>>742622348Siralim Ultimate is literally turn-based combat Path of Exile. You can take a look at the level of autism here, you can pick 18 traits out of over 1000, and that's not even getting into other mechanics:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qvWwf1fNB5jN8bJ8dFGAVzC7scgDCoBO-hglwjTT4iY/edit?gid=0#gid=0The game degenerates into auto-battler though, just like PoE is a glorified cookie clicker. That said there are a lot of bullshit end-game bosse (20 to 30 I think?) that will require you to craft a specific party to deal with it. No role playing or story though, just grinding, mapping, dungeon crawling, vibing and brainstorming new builds or improvements for current build.
>>742624849Why must people share their opinions absolutely everywhere these days
>>742624849Twitter nigger
>>742624510Because if you actually did you would have played the countless games that supposedly appeal to you rather than asking for recs on /v/, a place that notoriously doesn't play videogames, in 2026.I'm also fairly sure you have no grasp of what strategic character building actually is and you're most likely equating bloat with depth since you're pivoting to ARPGs, the cookie-clicker subgenre that is all about stacking either flat or incremental multipliers to your mouse clicks.Really, all the people like the retard quoted in the OP who whine about RPG combat being supposedly bad, western or eastern, always expose themselves as absolute shitters who don't like RPGs, don't actually play RPGs and come up with some supposed answers to questions that do not exist and were already implemented several decades ago, same goes for all the people who ask for "deeply strategic" games or mechanics, especially in here.If you were actually interested in the genre you really wouldn't write or ask any of this shit and would simply acknowledge that, like all genres, most of it is aimed at casuals because casuals are the blood of industry and always will be, you would have already explored the genre on your own by either lurking or simply trying out shit on your own rather than asking to be spoonfed in a place with exceedingly low quality userbase that most likely has even lower standards than your current ones, especially given the current OP being even more of a faggot than the allowed average.
>>742622348
I am not reading that giant wall of text.
>>742625328playing RPGs must be excruciating to you, do you ask Grok to summarize them to you?
I don't even know who Grok is.
>>742615554erm... that's not xitter, thoughbeit
>>742625158>if you were actually interested in the genre you wouldn't ask for recommendations Okay, makes sense. My apologies.
>>742625527Good, you've seen the way.Now go and actually play games like you're supposed to rather than wasting time in this bot infested shithole.Go browse Steam or whatever website and pick anything that looks interesting to you, look at what your Steam friends play if you have any and if you do find something that clicks with you follow the breadcrumbs, look at what other people who played those games play and follow the trail, be proactive and you'll also end up finding places where you can actually find more shit to play because this place is not one of them, this place is just a less moderate twitter backdoor nowadays and you'll hardly if ever get what you want in here.
Better and more interesting resource management, bravely default had the right idea, etrian odyssey had the right idea. Or you can just ignore the RPG elements and include enough jingling keys so the combat feels good, like undertale and deltarune do with the wacky minigames and wackier dialogue.
That is a lot of words just to not give anon a recommendation.
>>742621994In the end, aren't all games either thinly veiled math problem or reaction time test?
>>742626034Yes which is why it’s fucking retarded>oooooo Dragons dogma is just a combination of math blasters and whack a moleFuck off
>>742615403Bog made a fantastic game but he should stop seething about rpgs because that's not true at all.
>>742615403Because most JRPGs aren't games in the traditional sense.They're VNs with pointless grinding thrown in.
>>742617849You should not be able to afford to stock up on items and buy all the equipment in every town in the normal course of play. If you can do that, the game is giving you too much money.
>>742626907Do you know what they play in /tg/ - traditional games?
>>742615403So how do YOU improve it? It looks like most people just want there to be no grinding which is a pacing problem and why they like the earth bound encounter thing because it makes back tracking less tedious.People also want some agency during turn based combat which is why people like legend of dragoon, undertale / deltarune, expedition 33, paper mario, ect
Why do twitter faggot tourists keep coming here? What's up with that?
>>742615403I would say everyone should just copy E33 but devs who can't into kino design and animations would fall flat
>real time elements are usually basic execution checks rather than something that meaningfully impacts decision makingdoes he know?
>>742627208>It looks like most people just want there to be no grinding>People also want some agency during turn based combatAt some point you just have to accept that people don't want the classic jrpg formula anymore. If you don't want grind then what the fuck is the point of leveling up? You're just making numbers go up to have them go up and giving the player 0 benefit because it is balanced as if the levels don't matter anyway. It's actually worse than nothing because engaging in any combat outside the expected player average (this includes doing all the sidequests) makes the game too easy.The removal of grind killed levelling mechanics and the addition of real time mechanics to turn based combat just transforms them into shitty, gimped action games.
>>742615403>Improve JRPG combatWe already have the best type of combat for it, turn based.
>>742627208Unironically the Nep series Combo Maker system and positioning in battle is exactly what more JRPGs need to do. Adds that extra agency without removing the turnbased nature. Allows multihit attacks provided you can position yourself well, each weapon has a different hit box. Different weapons allow for different combo chains. Certain chains get damage boosts if you fulfill certain conditions along the way. It's exactly what people want they just don't want to admit it's a good idea since it came from Compile Heart.
>>742615403The real problem is that there's not a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems that face TB combat. You want to avoid combat devolving into midlessly using your biggest beatstick on everything and calling it a day. There are a million ways to do that. Maybe add grid-based positioning mechanics, maybe let the player mess around with the action economy a la SMT's press turn of Bravely Default's...Bravely Defaulting. If you're the kind of retard who thinks you can make a video about how to improve every JRPG in existence for all time, of course you'll end up with retarded answers like: "just, uh, slap some QTEs in there, somewhere, idk."
>casually mogs every other JRPG ever madeSMT and Bravely Default 1 solved 4-niggas games.The main difference wasn't just the addition of the turn mechanics, but also having a fully customizable team (demon collecting in SMT, Jobs in BD)
>>742629305Now play your 3rd JRPG.
>>742615403i just want to say that on-field encounters are a detriment to any jrpg with the exception of when the on-field encounters are essentially unavoidable and people who dislike random encounters are genre tourists who should be exterminated in Asus ROG death campswith that said i think a really good way to improve jrpg combat would be to put parries in them (i have no sincere ideas and i do not care to think about it)
Bravely Default is such a drag man, here's another boss, kill it with 10 dark rages each round, cheering children sound, awesome now do it for the next 20 bosses, congrats you cleared one of the loops. On the next loop you can do the above all over again.
>>742629431SMT is a series and all of it's games (besides 1) are better than the vast majority of the genresorry, anon
>>742628189I don't even know how to approach this as an argument because it's so batshit stupid and detached from any kind of reality or sense. I actually can't think of anything that this adds other than busywork. The actual good thing about the classic Neptunia battle system is that you can finish a fight in like two seconds, so it's a good thing they threw that out in favour of an awful real time battle system>>742627535I'm going to pretend you didn't post this but if i ever see this suggestion again i'm going to rape you
>>742629761You need to actually play the "vast majority of the genre" first before writing this dogshit.
>>742629546I wonder how it would work if you did a hybrid?>Normal enemies = random encounter no enemy symbol>Super Bosses and other challenge bosses = enemy symbolThat way you can choose to encounter the super bosses when you're ready but you can't pick and choose for normal encounters.FF6 kind of did that with the dragons and that worked pretty damn well
>>742615403Yakuza Infinite Wealth perfected turn based combat
>>742616651>turn-based combat is heavily limited and why action is betterIs this a joke? Almost all ARPGs end up feeling like the same boring soup.
>>742615403Neptunia already perfected JRPGs
>>742618008>hey guys classes all matter!>until they don't and become a dull jack of all trades until freelancer>even before then most classes are just dogshit and uselessNo.
>>742630030You picked the wrong game for this shitpost, people do job fiestas to demonstrate the absolute flexibility of the system.
>>742627963in a gameplay sense leveling in the typical JRPG way serves no purpose but it serves an obvious presentational purpose. Just balance it in a Suikoden kind of way where each area quickly raises you to a softcap and then you get practically no EXP past that(Or you could tie player power to equipment which is what I would probably go for, but my point is leveling is easy to fix)>>742626732He's only wrong insofar as JRPG fans are morons who invariably suggest the complete wrong changes to make the games better. Also fuck the stage 3 boss he's a cunt
>>742615403It's 100% a good thing when a game does on screen encounters like Chrono Trigger. Basically feels like each room is a thought out encounter by the devs, and the combat happening there on the screen without a seperate battle screen makes you feel immersed in the game. But also each room needs to be thought out by the devs, and that takes a lot of effort.
>>742615403Why the fuck are we taking screen-caps from some nobody in his low traffic, liberal echo chamber? Taking screen-caps from that website in particular should be an instant ban.
>>742630127No, I really didn't. Also it's not a shit post, dipshit. The truth is most of the classes suck ass and are boring. Can they beat the game anyways? Yes, no shit. It's an easy game. Does that make every class totally unique and cool? Fuck no.
Maybe they have so few suggestions because jrpg fans like jrpgs
>>742630127>people do job fiestas to demonstrate the absolute flexibility of the system.I guess FF1 is a super flexible system because you can beat it as 4 white mages, huh?
>>742615403>JRPG fans hate their own gamesTourists. Historically, not just JRPGS, but Japanese games in general have received awful translations that bastardized the story and characters. The result is "fans" that only like the bastardized version, but hate the bits and pieces of the original intent that remain.
>>742630138If your core gameplay mechanic has been relegated to "presentational" its a vestigial mechanic that needs to be removed. Like I said, levelling mechanics without grind or extreme difficulty is an enforced easy mode, it makes the optimal gameplay experience a complete guess on the developers part and makes levelling up feel bad which is the exact opposite of what its supposed to do.Early JRPGs understood this which is why levelling up feels good, Souls games interpreted this in another way and made the games so bullshit that any advantage is readily taken by the player. modern JRPGs start out as a cake walk and become so easy you start to resent levelling up. The genre needs to decide if it wants to be a skill based action game or embrace what it originally was which is slow paced and grindy.
TWITTER THREAD
>>742622907Fuck off back to elon musk's asshole faggot.
>Old games are just stat check so I need to make it more special>Oh I know, I'll add a I Win button>If you press it at the right time you win and take no damage>If you don't you die instantlyI hate modern devs so much
>>742619196Jrpgs tend to reward preparation more than demand pure execution.Children have basically infinite time to spend on that preparation. Adults often try and rush everything.
