>>743280167
writing was already shit in 3

>>743280167
I think it's good writing. He's evil and he's stupid.
Stupid people ruin everything for everyone. This is very reminiscent of what you see in real life.

>>743280167
The mistake is letting you join them, they should have been a hostile threatening the wasteland surface no matter what. They are supposed to be a bogeymen, a menace, a plague, and giving them a definitive motive would only diminish that image.

>>743280717
This, it's exactly the same with the Railroad.

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Saaaaar these threads are natural saarr oooooh you are being influenced by my astroturfing saaar

>>743281124
Jeets love Bethesda though

>>743281068
>Group dedicated to eradicating slavery
>No slavery in this area
I guess if you think of them as a splinter group that has nothing better to do they might work

>>743280167
>I'm replacing surface dwellers with robots
>Why?
>*Tells you*
>Idiot retard doesn't understand the explanation
He only does this is you fail a speech check, by the way

>>743280717
>>743281068
>if you just assume every single group consists entirely of sub 70 IQ retards the game makes sense
Sure, if you make them all indian and explain white people went extinct in this universe

>>743280717
that might have worked, if the game was presenting him as a stupid retard, instead it tries to paint him as a smart morally grey person who also serves as the linchpin for your character since he is your son, hence why people shit on it because they just made him a retard

>>743280167
>everyone
The institute isn't replacing everyone
>Why
The institute values itself and its safety above all else. Peppering spies in every organization to sabotages its efforts in becoming a bigger centralized force, and synths turning into raiders that rape rob and murder everyone is a net positive for them.

>>743280167
>You wouldn't understand
I always love seeing this meme because Shaun literally NEVER says this, or anything like this. It is literally THE self report that you haen't played the game.

>I'm replacing everyone with robot replicas that think they are human
The Institute isn't doing this
1. The Institute has no plans to replace everyone, or even most people
2. Institute synth replacements know they are synths
3. The Institute replaces people for a number of reasons including
-Spying on hotspots of anti Institute sentiment like Goodneighbor
-Taking control of major settlements to spread propaganda to lessen anti Institute sentiments like in Diamond City
-To take over locations that are useful for Institute experiments like the Warwick homestead.

The synths that don't know they are synths are synths whose minds have been wiped by the Railroad.Fallout 4 is shit, but actually complain about real issues,not this low IQ bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_xNjCzCQM

>>743280167
fallout 4's faction writing is shit but it's not as bad as this retarded misrepresentation of the game you got from reading a wiki

>>743280167
Why? They're brazenly superior, and they are also all based on his DNA. Why wouldn't he?

>>743281532
>that might have worked, if the game was presenting him as a stupid retard
That’s what OWB is funnily enough, a bunch of amoral scientists have their brains put into robot bodies and go senile and put in a recursive loop. They’re all fucking stupid and scatter brained but still capable of doing tests and making terrible shit and are kept in their place because the guy who put them in a recursive loop pretends to be a Saturday morning cartoon villain to tard wrangle them.

>>743281675
They want nothing to do with the surface yet constantly antagonize them. No one is going to find them, the only way in is through an access port that goes underwater or teleportation which they control.

>>743282309
>based on his DNA
does that mean it is incest if I, Nate, fucked Curie

>>743282508
>No one is going to find them, the only way in is through an access port that goes underwater or teleportation which they control.
Its mentioned by Liberty Prime that the top level of the Institute is only about 15 feet under the courtyard of CiT. If the people of the surface rallied together, they could easily reach it.

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>>743281124
only 200 of those are new visas tho, rest are recurring to their current pajeets.

At least we can rest easy knowing Obsidian would never create a faction as stupid as the Institute. Ghouls will take their rightful place as the oppressed minority instead of robots that look human.

>>743282863
Yet no one could find them and it took a robot with a digging lasers. Also you’re that faggot who had to pretend that the CGP massacre wasn’t done by a third gen aren’t you?

>>743282998
>Yet no one could find them and it took a robot with a digging lasers.
Except people did almost find them, and the only reason they didn't is because the Institute actively made it hard for them to do so.
>Also you’re that faggot who had to pretend that the CGP massacre wasn’t done by a third gen aren’t you?
Huh?

>>743280167
But I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn everybody into robots.

>>743280167
I kind of liked them once I finally played the main quest. The surface really is just unbelievably stupid to the point where they don't clear skeletons out of their own settlements. Their main point is pretty much about that, except instead of the unga bunga Brotherhood of Steel method of nuking everything, they want to take advantage of the situation for Science™

>>743280167
Even after reading the wiki and listening to video essays and doing all their side content I still have no idea what the fuck they were about

>>743283061
>Except people did almost find them
No they fucking didn’t
>Huh
Yeah there was this thread the other day with some retard who said the exact same thing you did. He went on for hours trying to act like the massacre at the CPG wasn’t done by a first gen and ignoring everything that showed otherwise only to have to have the evidence rubbed in his face and explained to him like a toddler before fucking off.

>>743283238
>No they fucking didn’t
I mean yes? Its mentioned that many people searched CiT over the years because people logically assumed it was under there.

>>743283276
And they couldn’t get in or find it because all the entrances save one were blocked. Again no one was going to find it. They make a whole point about there only being one super secret way in.

>>743283339
>Again no one was going to find it.
They would've had they been able to organize and actively dig, but the Institute was preventing them from doing that.

>>743283357
You’re sounding more like the sperg from the other thread with every post. A bunch of wastelanders weren’t going to spend their time fucking around digging up random spots in a place with one entrance. The Brotherhood had liberty prime, they can’t even build anything that isn’t made of scrap. I don’t know why you retards try so hard to defend this retarded faction when it’s the dumbest one in the series.

>>743280167
>We need a way to clear the surface of mutants to repopulate the wasteland
>We can't go up ourselves or we'll mutate further away from humanity
>We're sending up robots to bring order, either by force or subversion.

Not really that hard to work out.

>>743281675
Everything you listed is still retarded. Why not just send the synths out as helpers for the locals? The ones that are clearly robots, but make them friendly. If you can produce an endless amount of them, use them to produce good will. Farming, killing bandits, etc. You wouldn't have to spy on shit - everyone would love you. Only the stupidest of dullards (Emil) could think this story makes any kind of sense.

>>743283530
Mutants being Supermutants or regular people? Because they’re no different from the latter since they needed Sean to make the Gen 3s and they’re the ones responsible for the Supermutants.

>>743280167
Perfectly understandable. Fuckers weren't able to pick up a broom in 250 years and instead rolled around in trash and raidraped each other.

>>743283567
Because the surface has been fighting amongst itself for hundreds of years at this point, is largely populated by sickly mutant humans and monsters that nobody seems to care to try and eradicate.

They seem to largely regard the surface as a lost cause. Which isn't an unreasonable opinion given it's been like 250 years and everyone is still living in metal shacks and random ruins.

>>743280167
I shot this guy immediately.
>Hey dude I'm your son
My son isn't an old man, retard. Duh.
*blam*

>>743283702
That would mean that the retarded faction won’t help people because Bethesda’s own shitty world building.

>>743283739
Now that's roleplaying!

>>743283753
Well yeah.
It makes sense, but it's still shitty writing.

>>743283702
>They seem to largely regard the surface as a lost cause.
The surface is a lost cause. Option a.) Try and use your awesome Institute powers to fix this. b.) Eh fuck it, do some retarded slow-moving espionage shit that isn't really working.

>>743283826
It's kinda implied that they don't want humans with corrupted DNA to continue existing, but I think that was probably a bit too edgy for Bethesda and they kinda just skipped over it, despite it being the reason they got Shaun in the first place.
(But apparently not enough of a reason to not kill everyone else in the vault???)

>>743280167
Synthetic humans are as Humans as your average bilogical humans.
Especially in the Fallout settings, where some biological humans don't even qualify as Humans anymore (like feral ghouls, "super"mutans, raiders, or "people" of color)

>>743280280
Yes, and Bethesda made that too??

>>743282448
Lol old world blues was great

Fallout 4 is still a great game especially after mods, it's the dialogue and somewhat linear plot which aren't that great

>>743283567
This gets explained in the game.

Originally, the Institute tried working with the people of the surface, even spending four years helping the CPG try to stay together. After the CPG fell apart, and the people of the surface blamed them for it, the Institute went underground because they felt no need to help people who refused their help in the first place.

>>743283567
>Why not just send the synths out as helpers for the locals?
they did, but after a synth killed someone, everyone freaked and destroyed them, yet they let nick stay around cause he a good bot!

>>743283935
they wanted undamaged dna so they could make more synths with fev and replace everyone because ?????
but yeah they kill every candidate in the vault lol

top notch writing

>>743283987
>feral ghouls and super mutants
>biological humans
>clearly a brown poster
SAAR

>>743284048
(you) could just ask for a (you) bro, no need to look like a retard

>>743284245
>they wanted undamaged dna so they could make more synths with fev and replace everyone because ?????
They don't want to replace everyone with the synths
>but yeah they kill every candidate in the vault lol
All the other people in the Vault weren't related to Shaun, so thier DNA couldn't be used in the case Shaun died. Only Nate/Nora could, which is why both were meant to be kept alive.

Fallout 4 has shit writing, but this isn't part of it.

>>743283935
I just put the dishes in the dishwasher. In that time, I came up with this:

If you have to go with the I-hate-humans/infiltration idea, why not just make it so that the Coursers are the super fancy infiltration units and they are used to replace the leaders of the various factions. Not the random dipshit farmers. The leaders, so they can then destroy them from within. So the player is then dealing with factions that may or may not have been infiltrated. Organizing resistance with uninfiltrated groups. Use this to play the politics angle between the different groups. The rest of the synths are just the obvious robots out gathering resources and tech.

I dunno, it just seems like almost ANYTHING is better than how they used the institute. Emil really is just a dunce.

>>743284339
Speak for yourself tardo

>>743284548
It makes no sense for the Institute to want to actively destroy all the groups on the surface. Attempting to do that would create more active aggression against the Institute, which is the last thing they would want.

>>743284708
Right. An kidnapping, murdering and replacing random civilians with robots is definitely not going to piss people off.

>>743280167
You never heard of Fallout before Bethesda bought it.

>>743285180
The Institute was so effective at what they were doing the younger generation didn't even believe that they existed. There's all of like 3-4 replacements across the entire game because they very rarely do it.

>>743285338
No they fucking werent lmao
You can literally meet a guy in a random event who sees and confronts his own replacement at gunpoint

They werent even killing them anonymously, they were sending their replacement units out and they'd murder them there
Several people note weird changes in behavior like 1 that replaced an abusive father and the replacement synth wasnt abusive so the wife knew something was wrong

Synths that died could be cut up and they had inorganic parts in them you could collect and sell. Everyone knew they were there, they were just too scared shitless for the most part to do anything against the faceless glownigger faction scooping people up and replacing them with robots

Fucking Nick Valentine lived in Diamond City.

A pretty stupid thing is that they never give a satisfying answer for why they keep spitting out intelligent synths.
>At that time, the year 2227, the Institute had made great strides in synth production. But it was never enough.
> You have to understand. The Institute was on the verge of a breakthrough with synthetic organics.
>The Institute endeavored to create synthetic organics
And then, as one of the random things Shaun can say:
>Perhaps someday our synths can reclaim the Commonwealth.

What the fuck are their plans with synths? They make a ton of them, knowing that they might rebel or go berserk, causing the people living around them to hate and distrust the institute.
Why make them all so intelligent if all they need is slave labor? I get you might want some who are smarter if they have to infiltrate and/or replace actual people but that can't be that many.
Shaun does say that the synths could reclaim the commonwealth. As an army? As "normal" people, living there?
The institute is a dumb organization. They keep saying they're humanity's best option for survival, but they don't seem to do much other than just fuck around with science and make everyone around them angry. They want to be left alone yet keep poking the people living next to them. They don't need to make synths, just trade some shit with the locals and people will like you and give you info. Their base is almost impossible to reach anyway.
It's not a plot hole but it all ends up making them look idiotic.

>>743285483
>No they fucking werent lmao
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/University_Point_terminal_entries
>Godammit Bert, I can't believe you are hiding behind the "Council Charter" at a time like this. That damned Spencer girl is the one who brought the Institute down on us and if we can't give them what they want they will wipe us off the map. These kids may not believe in them, but I know your sister was killed by Synths.
>These kids may not believe in them
By 2285 current kids didn't believe in them.

>>743283753
The Institute were glowniggers. Everyone hates them for justifiable reasons. Yes they could have restricted their shenanigans to things like replacing raider leadership to control the gangs or making sure the region enjoyed greater stability and to an extent they were doing that. But just like IRL glowniggers they were more concerned with their power to fuck with people over anything else. They had no cause to do random shit like swipe up dirt farmers and swap them out and they were also just straight dumping some of the older violent models on the locals. Nick may have been a nice guy but most of his generation of model were violent. The Institute didnt give a shit. And Shaun didnt give a single shit and only ever responds with annoyance if his glownigger shit was pointed out to be bad. They enjoyed their Mossad like reputation when it was good but no one wants to spend every night wondering if they'll be swapped and murdered for reasons they can't even begin to comprehend. Like Shaun straight up thought he just had the right to do that to anyone he wanted whenever he wanted.

So of course factions like the Railroad (as dumb as they were) started popping up. Everyone knew the Institute was real in the same way you know glowniggers are real but you dont like the idea of being stalked so you pretend it can't happen to you. Their fate in most endings is just entirely self inflicted, and even then all Shaun can do is pout and bitch like a glownigger faggot.

>>743285589
>A pretty stupid thing is that they never give a satisfying answer for why they keep spitting out intelligent synths.
They don't. Several NPCs in the Institute mention that synths are not really intelligent, they're just advanced enough to act like they are, and that the belief that they have intelligence is an error they've been trying to solve.

>What the fuck are their plans with synths?
Use them as labor units mainly.
>They make a ton of them, knowing that they might rebel or go berserk, causing the people living around them to hate and distrust the institute.
The overwhelming majority of synths are not sent to the surface at any point.
>Why make them all so intelligent if all they need is slave labor?
Synths need to be intelligent enough to be able to analyze, and adapt, to changes in working conditions without the need for human oversight, which pre-war robots notoriously were bad at.
>Shaun does say that the synths could reclaim the commonwealth. As an army? As "normal" people, living there?
As in cleaning up the surface.
>They keep saying they're humanity's best option for survival, but they don't seem to do much other than just fuck around with science
Which is more than basically anyone else post-war has accomplished.
> They want to be left alone yet keep poking the people living next to them
From the Institute's perspective they TRIED leaving people alone for decades after the CPG, the surfacers ever increasing paranoia that the Institute was behind "everything" forced the Institute's hand into action to disarm the issue.

The whole point of the narrative is that both sides are responsible for the other's notions of them. The surface is shit because the Institute wont help them, but the Institute wont help them because the surfacers wont accept the help and just blamed them for everything anyways. If either side was actually willing to get rid of their preconceived notions things could get solved.

>>743280167
I always side with the institute cause I wanted to be in control of the fuck toy robots.
Don't give a shit about railroad and the brotherhood of steel, give me the fuckbots and I'll be your choreboy

>>743285809
>synths are not really intelligent
They are clearly intelligent enough to defect. It would be better if they went "the only way we get them intelligent enough to do their work is by copying the human brain - which can result in them getting ideas of their own."
>Use them as labor units mainly.
Then why make them so human? I can't remember anyone going "we needed the right DNA so we could make synthetic organics, all so we can have someone to carry shit and sweep the floors".
That's the whole point. They shouldn't have a need for producing a ton of these synths.
I get it as a science experiment, as research. They got a breakthrough using the right DNA and now they can make incredibly lifelike synths. Good, now only make them if absolutely necessary. You've got the data, that's the main part.
It would also make sense if the institute were planning on killing every human in the commonwealth, having synths live up there following their orders and restoring cities and making shit safe, and then returning to the surface decades later. But that also doesn't seem to be the point.
It's a dumb faction written in a dumb way. Bethesda liked the idea of this "oooh, everyone could be a synth, the mysterious institute is behind it all" atmosphere, but they failed at the execution.

>>743286441
> It would be better if they went "the only way we get them intelligent enough to do their work is by copying the human brain - which can result in them getting ideas of their own."
Thats basically what happened though. Gen 3 synths are just FEV grown human clones made using shaun's DNa and implanted with a synth chip.

>Then why make them so human?
Shaun explains this himself
>{Confident} Scientific curiosity, and the goal of perfection, drove them ever onward. What they wanted was... the perfect machine. So they followed the best example thus far - the human being. Walking, talking, fully articulate... Capable of anything.
There is a reason why humans became the dominate species on Earth. Our form gave us incredible motion range, and the usage of tools, which no other animals come close to reaching. Thus, the logical most useful robot form would be that of a human, as it would allow them to do more, and use more, than things like protectrons, or Mr Handy, bots can achieve.

>It would also make sense if the institute were planning on killing every human in the commonwealth
This would make no sense. Not only could the Institute not logically field enough synths to do so, but trying that would result in the entire surface rallying against them, which they wouldn't be able to resist.

>>743280717
Stupid evil people love to provide justifications for what they do, they might be lying a lot of the time (think of the children) but they will have excuses nonetheless

Rissle me this, /v/: if Bethesda games and writing are so bad then why are you discussing them on a daily basis?

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>>743281675
Why are you replacing everyone with synths?
>The Institute replaces people for a number of reasons including
>-Spying on hotspots of anti Institute sentiment like Goodneighbor
>-Taking control of major settlements to spread propaganda to lessen anti Institute sentiments like in Diamond City
>-To take over locations that are useful for Institute experiments like the Warwick homestead.
Wouldn't it be easier to just keep to yourselves?
>You wouldn't understand

>>743280167
Considering he's your son, maybe deep inside the sole survivor is autistic too.

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>>743280167
>essential NPCs
unless there's some in-universe explanation for their immortality this is fucking garbage and needs to stop

>>743289383
Is there any universe explanation for your character going nuts and killing people?
It a gamey response to a gamey action

>>743289449
>Is there any universe explanation for your character going nuts and killing people?
I could think of a million reasons
>It a gamey response to a gamey action
wtf does this even mean?

>>743280167
>I'm
Wrong, the Institute does it, he just leads them
>replacing everyone
Nope, just key figures and informants to keep tabs on the surface and draw power on occasion
>with robot replicas that think they are human
The thought that they are human is ridiculous to the scientists, they're machines and tools and a bit more intelligence doesn't change that
>lost the rights to this ip
They didn't, they're ALLOWING Obsidian to make a game, they didn't lose shit

>>743280717
based

>>743289469
>wtf does this even mean?
NTA, it means that anon thinks because it's a game, they can do whatever they want

>>743289469
Walking up to an important character and shooting him in the face just to see if you can is a gamey action. It makes no narrative sense and you wouldn't do it irl. Essentials are a game solution to a game problem

>>743289512
>They didn't, they're ALLOWING Obsidian to make a game, they didn't lose shit
And even that is just a rumor spread by some faggot who refuses to give any details and rather relies on "trust me bro."

>>743289549
Okay but what if there is justification, maybe I (and by extension my character) think these people are evil and need to be stopped, or maybe I am simply evil and want to kill them to control parts of the galaxy or whatever. They will remain essential even though I provide a reason.

Todd is just obsessed with putting random family shit in his games:
>You need to find dad!
>You need to find son!
>You need to find your wife's son (leaked Fallout 5 plot)

>>743289549
What if I really hate the important character and I am a psychopath who doesn't care about consequences? Or I design a plan to kill him without anyone noticing? Your explanation falls apart.
And this is ignoring that in Starfield the essentials have ballooned to the point random NPCs can't be killed because they have a quest where they task you will collecting 50 spoons or some shit.
>Essentials are a game solution to a game problem
no, they are a lazy solution to a lazy developer problem
this cope won't work anymore now that BG3 has shown that you can design quests with killable NPCs if you aren't a complete retard.

>>743289631
Yeah it's no gay fish.

>>743289631
*Emil

>>743289640
>What if I really hate the important character and I am a psychopath who doesn't care about consequences?
IRL you get killed in action due to being an active threat, get imprisoned for life, or spend the rest of your life on the run. Would getting a game over due to life imprisonment or becoming permanently hostile to all the cops improve your game experience?

>>743289631
It's an easy way to provide stakes when you suck at story writing. Everyone can relate to losing a family member so they don't have to explain your character's drive to the player.

The Start Me Up mod makes it really funny though, you're basically just some random wasteland schmuck that seems to really really want to save this random kidnapped kid

>>743280717
How his he accomplishing anything if he's so stupid?

>>743289764
>Would getting a game over due to life imprisonment or becoming permanently hostile to all the cops improve your game experience?
yes? why are you acting like a crime system in an rpg is some bizzarro game concept? were you a developer on avowed?

>>743289787
Well it was ok in Fallout 3 but Todd should stop putting the same fucking shit in his games for 30 fucking years now

>>743289817
Beth games have a crime system. It's also massively gamey, you can massacre an entire town and all you get is a few months in jail

>>743280167
>>743280717
It all makes sense when you realise Bethesda writes characters and stories for people as stupid as they are.

>>743290130
ok? so what? its better than not having a crime system at all.

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Why would you give free will to your perfect lab-grown slave caste?

>>743289383
Why the fuck would you even need or want an explanation, it's not fun. The top priority of a videogame is to be fun, not to be realistic or even to make sense. With Bethesda games auto-saving every cell transition and every few minutes anyway, there is nothing wrong with the Morrowind style of "you fucked up" message when you kill a truly essential NPC

>>743290245
>Why
Independent operation. Although is it really free will when hearing "Shitass B-17, Authorization code niggerfaggot" practically kills you?

>>743290297
>With Bethesda games auto-saving every cell transition and every few minutes anyway
Just turn it off.

>>743290234
So thr games are full of unrealistic game mechanics that wouldn't make sense IRL but for some reason you're stuck on essentials as some kind of ultimate sin. You know why essentials exist, to prevent you from killing plot or quest-critical characters and locking yourself out of the game and creating nonsensical game states.

Besides, modding away essentials is trivial so I don't even see why you care. Beth gave you a base game with safeguards so that you can't break it too bad, but also the modding tools to remove those safeguards

>>743290383
Maybe you misunderstand, that's a GOOD thing
Streamlining your game saving enough that saving every single loading screen and during normal gameplay is something Dwarf Fortress fucking WISHES it could achieve

>>743290383
You are either fucking stupid or Todd Howard to put that much faith into a Bethesda Game Studio product

>>743290413
>You know why essentials exist, to prevent you from killing plot or quest-critical characters and locking yourself out of the game and creating nonsensical game states.
The problem is that this then permeates every other aspect of the game's design and you end up with something very 'safe' that the player can't really have any influence on. See Skyrim with its entirely linear quests.

>>743290413
>to prevent you
And that's a problem, let me do my thing in my role-playing game. You should only prevent a player from doing things when it's either intrinsic to the game's gameplay - not much point to soccer if you can pick up the ball and run into the goal - or would irreparably break the game from functioning. And no, locking you out of quests doesn't stop the game from functioning.

>>743290413
>but for some reason
because they are not fun and they limit player freedom.
because they are an excuse by lazy designers
because there are other RPGs without essential NPCs that are perfectly fine, showing that bethesda game designers are incompetent

>>743290449
>Maybe you misunderstand, that's a GOOD thing
NTA but turning off autosaves is actually a good thing since they're the number one thing that will eventually brick your save. You should always turn off autosaves in Bethesda games.

>>743280167
Fallout 4 writing is so great that you need to make up dialogue that doesn't exist.

>>743290592
>because there are other RPGs without essential NPCs that are perfectly fine
Almost all other RPGs don't let you attack friendly units at all, and among those that do most of them also have unkillable characters (who will often not even react to your attacks)
What the fuck are you talking about

>>743280167
It's a "humans bad" story.
They want to replace ALL humans with robots.

>>743290665
>has literally only ever played Bethesda slop and thinks all RPGs are like that
You don't need to keep embarrassing yourself like this

>>743290665
and thus brings us to the first post
>unless there's some in-universe explanation for their immortality
Larian RPGs let you kill whoever you want with very few exceptions, with the usual explanation being that they have some form of immortality
since the game designers went through the effort of justifying it to make sure the player's immersion isn't completely shattered and because this technique is used rarely, I'm ok with it
play more video games, like the other anon said.

>>743290692
The overwhelming majority of RPGs ever made don't even let you pull out your weapon in a town. Its funny that you accuse me of only having played Bethesda slop when you seemingly can't even think of any RPGs that don't follow the Bethesda formula

>>743280167
>be baby
>get kidnapped and brainwashed by underground autistic scientist community
>get sold on all their ideas but never really given the concrete why that they themselves probably dont even have, theyre just doing shit for science sake
>eventually get asked why when youre nearly on your deathbed and lived your whole life doing this
>"well uh yah know just cuz uh you wouldnt get it"
Makes sense to me

>>743290413
>You know why essentials exist, to prevent you from killing plot or quest-critical characters
Then why were they still around in Starfield? They had the perfect excuse to let you kill everyone and then just go "woobs cant beat this quest, better not kill all the NPCs in your next cycle"
But no, Starfield has more essencial NPCs than any of their games before.
They exist because Bethesda is lazy and cant be arsed with thinking up failure states for when characters die. Thats all its ever been, cope harder

>>743280167
>because the original human was a fucking retard that only made the world worse.

forget bodysnatching synths
why are they making synth gorillas

>>743281675
Then uh, why don't you use your infinite robot army to help the peoples like killing bandit, growing foods, building batiment... So they become dependant on you and you control them

>>743282508
They do actually. They need resources from the surface. They have agents everywhere including the caravan faction that helps to gather information. The entire goal in the game was to gain access to materials to build a new reactor to and they were doing gay ops with synths to secure it. It's the penultimate mission. I thought the game was mostly a fun loot 'n shoot, didn't really even pay that much attention and even I understood that.

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>>743291113
Because one of the scientists had a vision and had access to the tech to follow through with it. Just like irl.

>>743290615
>they're the number one thing that will eventually brick your save
This is largely fixed with mods, in FO4 namely Buffout 4, UFO4P and the High FPS Physics Fix. Even then, autosaves usually only corrupt because they happen at cell transitions, when the engine already does a lot of bullshit with loading/unloading cells and their attached scripts. Autosaves on closing the pip-boy for example carries as much (or little) risk as manual saves.

Still occasional manual saves and exitsaves are important.

>>743291513
>UFO4P
That shit causes more issues than it solves.

>>743291113
They wanted to prank the sole survivor into thinking the apes had taken over. Unfortunately he woke up too early

>>743291592
Works on my machine, skill issue
Obviously you use the OG version of Fallout 4 and the backport of UFO4P, and not the NG slop Bethesda ruined the game with. You.. are using that version.. right, anon?

>>743290907
Because the combination of fail states is too large? It's not really realistic either way:
>some people don't die when they are killed
>they die and you instantly psychically know you failed a quest
>they die and the quest silently becomes uncompletable and all other related NPCs suddenly forget about it
>they die and nothing changes, quests just get stuck at the last point they were in and people tell you to talktl to someone who is dead or get stuck in scripted sequences that will never complete
It's a no-win situation, no matter how they handle it it will piss someone off. I think essentials are a reasonable solution, and if you don't it's tricially easy to mod away with the knowledge that your game will get stuck and you're fine with it.
Yes, in a perfect world the quests, plot and characters would react to each and every possible combination of events and deaths. Obviously this is not plausible, Bethesda games are already released unfinished as things stand

>>743280167
>Bethesda lost the rights to this ip

What?

>>743291653
The unofficial 4 patch causes issues in all versions including deteriorated performance and ctd. Do not install.

>>743291504
I'd resurrect the wooly mammoth just to kill it and make fresh steak out of it.
Same with Dinosaurs. Show me a man who does not want to eat Kentucky Fried Tyrannosaur and you'll just show me a liar.

>>743291113
>why are they making synth gorillas
The in-game project lead tells you why, you did engage with the subject instead of just bitching on 4chan about something you know nothing about, right?
But in case you forgot, they're a pet side-project to further research, "to see if they could". In the short-term it can provide valuable insight in synth production as a whole (how does this behave with that, etc.) and are a recreated (presumably) extinct creature. Even if they just end up in a museum of "things that once existed", that's still historical value.

IRL researchers do seemingly random shit all the time. A lot of discoveries and even breakthroughs are accidents, like the discovery of X-Rays.

>>743289549
i take it you've never seen a nigger before?

>>743291764
Nope, the 163 version's UFO4P causes no issues in itself. Issues can result from modders expecting vanilla values, scripts or behaviors that UFO4P fixed, but that's on the modder, not UFO4P. You have simply been brainwashed by the people who hate and slander UFO4P for philosophical issues, not anything factual.

Or in other words: it fixes more than it could possibly break and other people are responsible for most issues.

>>743291820
>"to see if they could".
I asked because that reason was fucking stupid.
There is no reason to experiment with gorillas for human synth behavior. They are not even the same product thus worthless as a control subject.

>>743281124
More like Asha Saar, amirite?

>>743287472
because /v/ are actual moronic faggots that eat shit

>>743291981
>why the fuck is the truck company suddenly making a motorbike, they're different products!
Humans and gorillas both have muscles, they have fat, they have blood, they have largely the same organs and so on and so forth. If making a gorilla improves replicating even just one of those functions through different perspectives and insights, then it's not a "fucking stupid" reason. Again, researchers IRL routinely do seemingly unrelated shit for a broader perspective.

>>743287472
>if my garbage is so useless and smelly, then why does the garbage collector come every week to pick it up HMMMM?

>>743292115
Because he's paid to
You're going this for free
For FREE!

>>743292157
You don't know that

>>743292057
>why the fuck is the truck company suddenly making a motorbike
You are not as clever as you think when most vehicle companies do focus on one thing over the other to simplify production lines among a myriad of other reasons. Or they do multiple completely separate business for independent markets that rarely overlap for profit.
If their synth bath machine fucked up making feet like every Bethesda game ever then it is much more efficient to make more synth feet to test and find what it is fucking up over making monkey feet in vain hopes to stumble into a solution.
A motorcycle factory doesn't start making car mufflers to see why their motorcycle mufflers are not working properly.

>>743283530
>2007: Enclave
>2015: Enclave but now with shill bots
And that's why they call him Todd the Godd

>>743292316
>focus
Yeah and the institute focuses on humanoid synths while Suzuki also manufactures trucks. I honestly don't know enough about trucks to name a 1:1 example but I can tell you a few motorcycle manufacturers that also make trucks.
>A motorcycle factory doesn't start making car mufflers to see why their motorcycle mufflers are not working properly.
Of course not, because that's R&D's thing, not the manufacturer. Whichever R&D department or entire different company a conglomerate can have has will absolutely look to similar but not equal products to further their understanding.

>>743280280
It was also the first Fallout game made by Bethesda, what a coincidence

>good writing is when the character tells you their plan and motivation like a bond villain

>>743280167
Maybe he just really likes robots.

>>743280717
SPBP
The party when IT happens will be insane. Liquor will be sold out worldwide.

>>743291721
>Because the combination of fail states is too large
Its really not, disregarding the usual new vegas glazing just having the quest fail with "x is dead cant complete" is fine. Sure someone will bitch but someone will always bitch but the amount of people who are upset that they cant hand in colmecting two flowers to a corpse is much lower than the amount of people bitching because every other NPC is immortal because they have a minor step in some quest somewhere.
The immersion argument doesnt hold water either because the essencial NPCs dont give a shit that some psycho runs through the town killing everyone but them every other day.

TES games are not simulators, and immersion is hard, but really just taking away your weapons / making all non-hostile NPCs immune to damage is a better fix than having every NPC that is involved in some quest somewhere, no matter how inconsequential, be immortal.

>>743291721
>"go to Nigger#35 and get his money that he owes some guy"
>no you can't kill Nigger#35 ever because he's part of a quest
>no you can't just kill Nigger#35 and take the money
>no you can't pickpocket Nigger#35 you have to talk to him
>no after the quest you still can't kill Nigger#35 he's just that important
Come on man, really?

>>743280717
THIS POST MAKES NO SENSE WHY ARE SO MANY ANONS AGREEING WITH THIS

>>743289383
Murderhobo is a meme in D&D, and you shouldn't actually act like that.

>>743295545
He's right? in order to be evil you have to be meaningfully stupid in a discompassionate way.

>>743295665
But it's a meme because it exists. The DM shouldn't tell you "well okay you fireball the inn keeper that has 4 hp in the face but some divine intervention keeps him alive".

>>743295735
Yeah the DM should let you massacre a city and completely fuck over the flow of the campaign by turning it to a fugitive simulator.
You have never played a pen and paper RPG once in your life

>>743280167
Why do retards get filtered by this? It’s pretty easy to understand, ironically, what he means by that.

It’s not
>it’s so heckin complicated you cannot possibly understand
It’s
>oh my science we are the heckin institute bloody Brahmin you are dahlit waster
It’s just social posturing. The institute is full of school shooter incels/mental pajeets who think they are above others due to their caste.

Now you could say
>this doesn’t make a good villain
But I would argue if this basic line of dialogue goes over your head you’re hopeless

>>743295735
You can murderhobo the innkeeper allright but don't come crying when one of the patrons whack you.

>>743295824
Clearly neither have you, the DM has tons of optionis for punishing you for killing the random innkeeper, he is under no obligation to go along with everything the party says.
Rock falls and all that. Seriously how did you get
>the DM should let the player kill an entire town
From
>the DM shouldnt invoke divine intervention to make a 4hp barkeep survive a fireball

>>743295735
Why are you trying to make up scenarios to prove your point when you don’t have experience with the activity mentioned in the analogy? A DM is going to find some bullshit way to kill you then offer to reset or just not let you do it and offer others to talk you down

>>743296017
Look this pajeet for kitboga’d and now he’s trying to reclaim his izzat. This behavior right here is exactly why this site has died to fast

You don’t know shit about pen and paper RPGs, you made a horrendous example and got told exactly why it was wrong. He’s not going to read the numbers on the back of the card homie this is just an extended humiliation ritual

>>743280167
>>743280280
Yes, because 200 years after the explosion they still live in ruins, I can understand this only if only niggers survived

>>743296017
>he is under no obligation to go along with everything the party says.
Yes, that's the essentials system
>I kill the facton leader that gives out half the main quest objectives in the game
>"No."

>>743296017
Even in fallout inkeepers typically aren’t essentially but a DM is not going to let you just murder an NPC that is crucial to the campaign unless they murder should is baked into the campaign. They will in fact make up some bullshit if they let the attempt go through but usually just talk you down. Which is even less freedom than video games since you don’t even get to attempt it

>>743296120
I'm not even that anon jeetGPT calm your karma and shit in the streets or whatever the fuck you subhumans do

>>743296126
And the DM usually has a good reason for not being able to kill important characters, you know one they tell the player?

Why are you defending obsessively railroading DMs in a fallout / tes discu- oh, carry on

>>743296121
In Bethesda's mind people still do because they're creatively bankrupt. The original FO, FO2 and New Vegas shows humanity has been actually rebuilding since the bombs fell.

>>743296273
You are 100% a SEAjeet newfag.

You’re doing
>endlessly reply spam third worlder muh last word behavior
Which is unironically why your country is such a shithole. No one does anything. You have jeets just standing beside each other not even looking at each other pretending one is the real benchod the other is the real brahmin.

It’s the same behavior you see when rakesh sits on the phone with kitboga for 40 minutes even after being exposed. In your culture, you have to regain izzat. You will reply, it’s baked into your dna. You will do it all day. It’s why every thread is the same, it’s why this site has died so fast.

Every single threads has some thirdie like you saying some astronomically retarded shit then trying to izzat farm as damage control. The next step for you is vagueposting and samefagging

>>743295824
>You have never played a pen and paper RPG once in your life
Nigger I HOST them and if my players want to go on a rampage then they can do so within the bounds of the game, they'll face guards and knights that may explode the players by looking at them intensely enough but challenging an entire kingdom isn't easy.
>completely fuck over the flow of the campaign
Only people who never played pen and paper campaigns but only watch their favorite e-celeb play would say that

>>743280167
>have the technique to LITERALLY create almost full artificial human beings from ZERO, including the hardest part of it all, human sentience and consciousness
>can't cure some random cancer type

>>743296059
>A DM is going to find some bullshit way to kill you then offer to reset or just not let you do it and offer others to talk you down
Uh huh, and what I'm not reading here is that the DM doesn't let you do it

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Write what you know: Keep it simply stupid!

>>743296273
>Why are you defending
No one is defending anything your example was shit and it is repeatedly being explained to you why it is retarded

>all the Jeethesda tranny cope ITT
God I'm so glad this company is imploding.

>>743296625
>Jeethesda tranny
Now you're just saying random things

>>743280167
Fallout 4 is Bethesda's best RPG

>>743296721
Grim.

>>743296819
Actually the best one is probably Starfield but those two are easily the best Bethesda RPGs

>>743296868
Extremely grim.

>>743280167
He never said that

>>743280167
He said that

>>743280167
wow another fagout 4 thread!
if you see this post your mother will die this week in her sleep, no immunities

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>>743280167
The Institute first replaces people from communities to spy on them
Then they slowly and carefully replace their leader with a synth
Using this method they can essentially control the entire wasteland from the shadows preventing wars breaking out inbetween these communities ultimately improving living conditions on the surface

I made this all up btw
No idea why Bethesda couldn't just say something like this in the game

>>743295981
I see, so i am just not indian enough to get it, thank you saar.

>>743297338
Its still a terrible plan, if you have the ability to just make people who are loyal to you, then just kill everyone and replace them anyway.
They really shot themselves in the foot with that one room where you can see that they can make a new synth in a few minutes, why bother with all this infiltration bullshit when you can just print out a full settlement worth of people in a day?

>>743280167
>>I'm replacing everyone with robot replicas that think they are human
>>Why?
>*Replaces you with a robot replica that thinks it's a human"

>I'm replacing everyone with robot replicas that think they are human
>That's really cool and smart and awesome and I'm sucking you off right now
THAT'S WHY

>>743285809
>Which is more than basically anyone else post-war has accomplished
Caesar did a pretty good job of it by just going mask-off with the cartoonishly evil shit, and even the people who hated his methods had to admit that any territory he controlled was safe from any kind of raiders or gangs

>>743280167
>I'm so happy Bethesda lost the rights to this ip
They didn't though. That's not how IPs work. Also
>People pretending that NV's writing was somehow better
Long dick Johnson would like his cock back from your mouth.

>>743292115
>food analogy

>>743281419
>>if you just assume every single group consists entirely of sub 70 IQ retards
The character can't be smarter than the writer

>>743295735
I simply wouldn't let you attack the inn keeper if you didnt have a justifiable reason to do it. RPGs arent meant for living out your fetishes. If your character wouldnt do it then it's not happening.

>>743298751
>If your character wouldnt do it then it's not happening.
My character suddenly went stark raving mad and is clearly mentally unwell.