How big of a problem has visual clutter become over the years?
>omg is that some rubble?>I'M LOSING MY FREAKIN' MIND !!!!!!!!!!
>>743297276be honest bro
>>743297225if a game is unreadable in 480p then it's visually cluttered to fuck
>>743297225It is busy but not visually cluttered I can see the clear path the dev wants you to walk along (which is a different bigger problem than just a lot of assets strewn about).
>>743297325You have brain problems
literally can't play Marvel Rivals because of it
>bro why woupd you put text on the paper????>can’t you see a blank white page is ideal design??
>>743297225It's a pretty big issue sometimes. Some games are just fatiguing to look at.>>743297530You can see where to go but the right looks more claustrophobic, and I would say there is still visual clutter. If there's a lot of detail added that you're mostly meant to ignore it simply ends up as clutter. Also it takes focus off the statues which seem more interesting than random stones and candles strewn about.
>>743297325>>743297401>>743297530>>743297579>>743297816None of you faggots know the first thing about creating art. Stupid fucking faggot autists demanding everything be plain and ugly like them, I’m so glad you will never have influence over anything creative through the sheer merit of you being skill-less losers.
>>743297591>blank white pageNah, even bare walls can look good with the right textures and art direction. Visual clutter is like writing over a page that already had something written on it and trying to read both at the same time.
>>743297963Nope, design heirachy is a thing. You seeing everything at once is a brain issue. Normal people don’t process visual information like that.
>>743297934Nice projection but I've created plenty of things including games that have been well received by others. You also don't have to create things to know if something looks bad lol.
>>743297225minimalism is not a style
>>743298018That might be true of the real world but you're staring at a small screen and then saying you should be ignoring half of what's on the screen? This isn't an uncommon complaint, it's not an abnormal brain issue which is a ridiculous thing to claim because someone says something might be overly detailed.
>>743298038Making a pile of shit that 3 people liked on social media doesn't actually mean you’re a skilled creative, sorry. And yes, you do need to have expertise in something to properly critique it.
>>743297934you seem upset
>>743297934Shit is cluttered in some video games, I agree with OP.I remember playing BF3 and being incredibly annoyed by the grass and random garbage everywhere, it was worse than BC2 in locating enemies and that game had you blow the map to ruins.
>>743298147
>>743298140It is an abnormal brain issue because most people never bitch about this, much less make threads dedicated to it. If you have trouble with seeing multiple things on a screen, might I recommend turning it off?
deus ex md was my first visual clutter encounterhurt my eyes to play that game, there was so much shit and detail on the screen all the time
>>743297225right looks like trash because it's AI generated
>>743298169>I remember looking at a painting and getting really upset the artist included the color green, because it distracted me from the blue.
I feel like a better question about visual clutter is in regards to stuff like special effects. Flashes, bangs, booms, blurs, glows, shines, all at once. When does it become too much? Is it an age thing?
it's really just a matter of what you're trying to achieve but I'm not sure we're actually ready to have a level-headed conversation seeing as this thread is mostly retards fighting
>>743298258Its an autism thing. >>743298267Your conversation boils down to you having an autistic hangup about seeing detail. This is a weird thing to fixate on which is why its easy to dismiss as autism.
>>743297276>>743297551>>743297591>>743297934>>743298018>>743298140>>743298147>>743298218>>743298254Holy troon melty
>>743298254That's not comparable and you are obviously an idiot.
>>743298254>paintings have interactive gameplay that require the player to pay attention to certain thingsshut the fuck up, close the browser, go for a walk
>>743298218It's a common complaint. There have been 91 threads for the term 'visual clutter' alone and it goes back to 2016. There are probably countless other threads not using those words specifically. Just because you haven't been aware of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think that could be a sign of a brain problem if that's the logic you follow.
>>743298334It actually is though dumbass, both are flat representative design, please kill yourself
>>743298313>Your conversation boils down to you having an autistic hangup about seeing detail. This is a weird thing to fixate on which is why its easy to dismiss as autism.I would love for you to tell me where I said any of that considering you just replied to my first post in this thread. Thanks for demonstrating my point about fighting retards.
>>743298352>>743298359>>743298376Lets see your high minimalism successful game you’ve been in charge of then
>>743298367Another 3-star reply by the thread dumb dumb
>>743298258>When does it become too much? Is it an age thing?Nah people were complaining about things like the heavy use of bloom in the mid 2000s and how it made things look like shit, even younger people complained about it.
>>743298359Wow 91 threads over 10 years?? Thats almost… 10 threads a year! 0.8 threads a month! Wow this is totally not a niche autist issue!
>>743298398When did I say anything about minimalism or having a game?
>>743298398>you don't like visual clutter?>you're a minimalistclose the thread immediately you bi-directional brained mongrel
Somebody REALLY doesn't want this conversation to happen. Wonder why that could be?
>>743297276>omg is that a room without rubble?>AHHH IT'S SO SCARY AND EMPTY LIKE THE BACKROOMS
>>743298479>AHHHH IS THAT DETAILED STAGE DESIGN??? AHHHH DID SOMEONE PUT TABLE DECORATIONS ON THE TABLE??? I CANT SEE I CANT SEE HOW CAN I TELL WHERE TO GO WHEN THERES A DISTRACTING PILE OF LOW POLY CLUTTER THERE IN THE CORNER SOMEONE HELP ME!!!
It's not our fault you were laid off Marathontranny
>>743297591All of thes carp jist gets pupilated by outsalmoning teems.It's important to be able to maintain consistent visual design language and not reuse random shit for set dressing.
>>743297934>>743298398Why are you so angry about this?
>>743298449That's just for the exact phrase 'visual clutter' alone, but I know you're going to ignore me saying that there are likely a large number of threads talking about similar things with unknown phrasing because it gives you an excuse to act the way you are right now. But it's not working, you still have no point and your butthole smells.
>>743298324Guarantee it's OP.
>>743297276>>743298536Who are you quoting?
>>743298267It's just one retard sperging out.
>>743297934don't ever quote me again you phoneposting faggot
>>743297816We are sort of getting at the same thing. I'm saying the right makes the square room into a virtual hallway with the path of objects. There is enough clutter that it becomes a line, a wall. That functionally changes how the room is seen in your mind and how you interact with it even before you notice it has influenced you. The clutter becomes a symptom of a deeper issue to be avoided in games. When I look at it I don't see the clutter, I see the hallway the clutter creates and I focus my hatred on the room turned hallway, not the clutter.
>>743298608>AHHHHHH MY EYES IS THAT FIVE SMALL AND LOW RES PARTICLES FLOATING OFF THE END OF MY WEAPON??? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO SEE THE GAME WHEN THERES SMALL DUST PARTICLES THERE! THATS LIKE 2% OF THE SCREEN REAL ESTATE JUST GONE! TOTALLY KILLED! DEAD!
>>743298728Who are you quoting?
>>743298774>SOMEONE SAVE MY EYES!! THE DETAIL BURNS THEM! >IF A GAME ISNT AN EMPTY NONDESCRIPT EXPANSE I’LL LOSE IT!
>>743297225Depends on the game, it can add to the atmosphere when it's done tastefully (i.e. Bloodborne) but the moment it leads to yellow paint being a necessity it's too much. Personally I just only play old shit and indie shit now. AAA games are for the most part unsalvageable.
Autists will bitch about this then mod in some dogshit ENB that blasts the fuck out of the contrast and saturation then smugly act like they improved it.
>>743298849Who are you quoting?
>>743298968You
>>743298724>I see the hallway the clutter creates and I focus my hatred on the room turned hallwayYeah that's what I noticed too, it almost feels like being caged in and it loses contrast with the separate spaces. Also I could be overthinking it but if those statues were meant to have any actual significance in the lore then all the clutter stops someone from being able to stand in front of them and look at them easily. >>743298926A lot of people will rightfully say that makes games look like shit, I don't think the majority of people are doing it.
>>743298982Who's You?
I don't care much about busy character design or environmental details that dont affect gameplay, let the artists argue about that.When it starts to affect gameplay though, then it grinds my gears. Like the original System Shock had a clean environment due to memory limitations, every interactable item was obvious because there were no decorations. The remake adds uninteractable items and rubble everywhere and removed that clarity, to get around this issue, they just highlight interactable items on the minimap, trading immersion for graphics.PoE is another case of being too busy, at any given them there are hundreds of particle effects flying around and when you suddenly drop dead, you have no idea which one killed you. Things are bad when the devs are selling microtransactions that make attacks simpler and less flashy.
>I’m terrified of detail: the thread
>>743299997Who's terrified of detail?
>>743300031What, do you feel singled out? Curious…
>>743297225I've never seen anyone that wasn't painfully autistic complain about clutter in a game. The more dense the details, the better the game.
>>743300352Singled out by what?
>>743300408By the claim that detail terrifies you?
>games look prettier with busier environments>which in turn "forces" developers to add yellow paint to guide the player>which makes the game look ugly as fuckhue
>>743298169>game about war makes camoflague and hiding useful>this is badNot everything is primitive slop like Counter Strike.
>>743299045me
>>743298169Which gave an advantage to people playing in low settings with no grass and less busier details, shit was hilarious.
>>743299613>Things are bad when the devs are selling microtransactions that make attacks simpler and less flashy.lol is this true? proof?
>>743300454What claim terrifies me?
>ClutterI don't care up to the point where my brain randomly ask "but anon, is it even logical that it's there" and I notice that at no point the thing could have ended up there with another explanation than "someone just put it there" which than triggers me imagining that the dungeonlord and his minions must have gone through the thing and said "Minions, I feel a severe lack of random rubble in this corner. Venture into the mines and find me a menhir to put there you also smear with your feces so it has a more pleasing texture" which will than wake some ancient autism within me and altf4
>>743300581Uh oh someones upset…
>>743300748Upset about what?
>>743300715Meds
>>743297934Good art makes use of space. Negative space is equally important to the objects in an image. Clutter is bad art.
>>743300804No, being upset about lazy devs going "unreal gave me a clutter brush and I will use it not matter if it makes sense" is perfectly sane. It's the current year version of retards adding lense flare to a pic just because they found the option in Photoshop
>>743300847Negative space doesn't mean devoid of detail thoughever In order to have negative space you need positive space - or detail, which is what autists ITT hate
It's not really artistic as most of the clutter is random shit placed there which will probably be outsourced to AI (if it hasn't already) and has no purpose nor a reason to be there. Everything has meaning in the Mona Lisa, this is just random shit to make it look busier which people relate to better grafixx
>>743300924Lens flares are added because thats how camera lenses work irl Blame realism autists if you take issue with pursuing realism But then they’ll bitch about your subjective preferences instead and the cycle of obese autism will continue
>>743300950Crying about imagined opposition is a really unattractive personality trait.
>>743301019>>743301051Lose weight
>>743301036
Gothic 2 looked pretty good and the environments are readable too, almost everything you find in the world is interactive and can be picked up too other than walls and trees. There's good and bad ways to add clutter.Even the bushes and tress have a purpose of hiding stronger enemies in deep forest.
>>743301148Your fault for play some dogshit from 20 years ago Also big doubt thats what the game looks like at default Hysterical woman tier post
>>743297225Remove the random skull and candle pedestals
>>743301148This even changes the environmental story telling.>dungeon>destroyed dungeon with corpses
>>743301102get laid
>>743301249Having skulls AND newly lit candles doesn't make sense also.
>>743300950The statues on the left already added positive space detail, the textures for the walls and floors added negative space detail. There was a sort of balance there. Nobody is hating on any details whatsoever. Games acting like texture details don't exist and covering them up with more props and random stuff might be the problem.
>>743301209>for play some
>>743301343Been there done that with women who wouldnt even look at you, fatty
>>743301432no you haven't
>>743300545When I made a frost nova build every guide I saw recommended a $2 water nova microtransaction. The normal attack leads a frost effect on the ground that covers normal on ground damaging effects like fire and acid. The water splash doesnt leave behind particles and is transparent compared to the regular attacks opaque, so its easier to see attacks coming through it. They also do some other invisible weapons/arrows/projectiles MTX. That said, they are in the minority, most MTX just fill the screen with even more effects.
>>743301401
There's nothing really positive about current games, they have a standarized control scheme which makes them all feel samey, the graphics are busy and require better hardware despite looking worse than games 10 years ago, and are made by trannies and niggers.
>>743301492>>743301502*grammar mistake
>>743301456Sure have Embarrassing body count actually I was a man slut
>>743301541no you haven't
GOD I LOVE EMPTY CORRIDORSIT'S LIKE MY HECKIN BACKROOMSWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW I CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLORE EMPTY ROOM #1725SUCH SOULTHESE CORRIDORS ARE JUST LIKY MY SOUL!!!!!!!!!11111
Oh wow, so the schizo is also an incel trying to convince everyone he's had sex. What a surprise.
What I hate is that most of the time it's purely visual clutter with zero interactivity
>>743301639>dopamine addicted zoomer
>>743301587Whatever you say, troon >>743301639This>>743301648Lose weight
>>743301639nobody said there should be empty corridors. op's image isn't an example of an empty corridor.
>>743301272Yes, that's the point. If you overdo it with clutter you won't only change the visual storytelling you can also destroy it when it's just randomly placed shit. If you want debris you also need to add something that the debris could have come from. But especially in lazy remasters they often add shit just because whoever worked the map couldn't stand the spot being empty but removing that chunk from the ceiling where it could have fallen from was too much work. It's okay to call out stupid and lazy designs. Nothing to do with clutter bad or clutter good.
>>743301689have sex
>>743301639this but unironically
>>743301704Go outside. Sometimes theres just trash on the griund.
>>743297225>>743301249What I really hate is the random rubble on the ground when the ceiling is perfectly fine, happens when the level designer adds clutter for its own sake instead of trying to convey something about the room.
>>743297225that's what happens when you hire roasties to develop games
>>743301690The anon you're replying to has being arguing with an imaginary friend this entire thread.
>>743301708>t. Fat >>743301740Walls can crumble too, autismo
>>743301791>t. virgin
>>743301728Sorry that you live in a shithole but your level designer did at least add some niggers first to give the trash being there some context
>>743301704Also how is there a skull and freshly lit candles at the same time.
8 results for "autist," six results for "autism."Someone has a favorite insult.
>>743300376>more things = betterer
Every single thing placed in this game makes sense and it doesn't look cluttered nor empty. Once again early 2000s was the sweet spot.
>>743301938>less things = betterer
>Entire thread is a literally anons yelling at each otherWtf I would never have guessed detail is such a contentious topic
>>743302004Looks like such dogshit its insane lmao >>743302060Thats why autism is an accurate assessment of the issue >>743301880Take notes.
>>743302048If less things convey the same idea just as well, or sometimes better, then unironically yes, you phone posting mongoloid.
>>743302060i'm pretty sure most of it is just one or two spergs who are incredibly upset at the topic for whatever reason
>>743302116>Take notes.Already on it: "overheated loser arguing with strawman spouts buzzword"
>>743302213this
>>743302208But when less things convey less of the idea and less of an immersive environment, quality is lost You wish you had a phone you could use on the internet, thirdie
>>743302116>Looks like such dogshit its insane lmaoThere goes all your credibility
>>743302335>why yes, the ideal approach to rendering a corn field is black sticks
>>743302335he never even had an argument to evaluate the credibility of in the first place
>>743302329>muh thirdieI accept your concession.
>>743302116>Looks like such dogshit its insane lmao
>>743297225I'd rather have that than barren empty rooms that plague many indie games.I don't know what it is about indie games and bad level art, but they seem attached at the hip.
>>743301728Not everyone lives in an area infested with jeets.
>>743302495The only people who don’t at this point are in africa or some other third world shithole First world means jeet infested
>>743297816>You can see where to go but the right looks more claustrophobic,working as designed???complaining about this is way dumber than the basic observation of "the one on the left looks retardedly plain and bland"i agree the problem is just excessive spam. i think an ideal middleground would just be removing some stuff to keep the place looking reasonable, i crossed out the stuff i would personally delete
>>743302585That spot in the foreground right would get pretty dark without that candle there….
>>743302387I mean yeah he's just calling people fat and that he had sex once or some shit
Uh oh autismxisters… we got too cocky…
lol that there's some schizo mad people don't like visual clutter
>>743302650the whole place is already a nonsensically well lit underground room to begin with, i dont think it matters
>>743302697Fat
>>743302386>why yesreddit
>>743302778virgin
Bethesda seems to manage.I can't think of an entry where I couldn't just find things in a room, no matter how much "debris" was there.Their only mistake was making every last junk item purposeful since Fallout 4.
>>743302808i think there needs to be a middlegroundjunk needs to be junk but its annoying if its completely utterly worthless and not worth interacting with in any way shape or formbut at least TES gets credit for ragdolling these objects around with explosions and shouts and shit
>>743297225>one has literally zero objects>other has a ridiculous amount of objectsWhat a retarded bait
>>743297225Definitely insane. If this thread is alive in six hours, I might upload some retarded screenshots I took. Still wage slaving right now.
>>743302585>working as designed???>complaining about this is way dumber>but yes i agree there's a problem and this is how i would fix italrightbut no, it doesn't seem to be working as designed when the room was originally more spacious with a focus on the statues and now it's just one long narrow hallway
>>743302970>but at least TES gets credit for ragdolling these objects around with explosions and shouts and shitthis is an important feature to me
>>743303013>>one has literally zero objects>statues aren't objects
who lit the candles
>>743303131I consider them to be a part of the overall architecture but sure, you got me. Point still stands.
>>743302808>fo4It's funny because the enviromental storytelling was the only thing the game put any effort in. They must have had one level designer who spent all his free time making little dioramas out of places that otherwise didn't had any story or quest hooks. Sadly that was one of the only things where anyone put effort in the game.
>>743301639>I HEART EMPTY ROOMS
>>743302574The local river near me now has signs warning about e. coli contamination and about not dumping things into the river. Apparently jeets have been shitting and dumping weird statues in it. Last year I took a walk along the trail there was some massive trash pile in the middle of nowhere, hidden by trees. To this day I wonder how that trash pile got there because it's at least 100 meters from the road. So it's not a case of them just dumping stuff out of a truck, someone had to decide to carry what appears to be a literal ton of garbage into a forest even though driving to a garbage dump would have been easier.
>>743302574>third world shitholeI live like a king while you struggle to pay rent
>>743297225A growing problem, I guess. But hey, what can ya do.
>>743297276Why would there be rubbleThe ceiling and floor and walls and statues look perfectly intact, even the overturned plinth isn't broken
any e33 screenshot ever would make a better example of hideous clutter than some rubble.
>>743303486Not really I’m in the top 10% of earners America is still a shithole though Thanks biden Thanks trump Thanks israel
>>743300471>camouflage in bf3Nigga everyone had a glowing dorito above them
>>743297934Stop projecting
>>743297225whate game
>>743305618lunacid tears of the moon
>>743305838ew
>>743305838That explains everything lmao
>>743303064>>but yes i agree there's a problem and this is how i would fix it>alrighti was agreeing with the oteher anon you fool>he room was originally more spacious with a focus on the statues and now it's just one long narrow hallwayi meant "intended" in the sense of "whoever made this redesign probably intended it to be claustophobic"id like the objects removed to pretty much eliminate all the three possible qualms>the original room wanted to be somewhat spacious and not draw too much away from the statues>the room was originally a featureless nothingburger>wanting it to be reasonably claustophobic and make more of a curve/funnel towards the next corridor while still being spaciousbalancing things is kinda hard. people want me for staring at level editors and other similar forms of applied ideasguyism. sometimes i will legit spend 5-15 hours autistically obsessing over tiny shit in a single corridor or room
i didn't expect people losing their minds over this subject of all things
>>743306247>i'm bored>some people are talking about something i'm not very interested in>and that makes me angry
>>743297225you tell me
>>743297225that doesn't look badwhat's bad about it is that it probably has no physics, destruction or intractability for any of those objects so it's kinda wasteful
