What went wrong with indie game developers?>friendslop>early access roguelite deckbuilder>early access survival craft>city builder snooze fest>pixelated metroidvania with soulslike elementsThere’s no passion or creativity anymore. All they care about is maximizing sales and minimizing returns, gaming the review system, using the laziest possible dev tools etc… We have to admit that we made a big mistake gassing up indies and we need to realize that Japan and AA is our only hope
>>743300978It's natural at this point for things, interests or hobbies to become more and more greedy and corporatized after the initial money generating potential has been noticed by the big kikes. Then they spread their filth onto passionate people that follow their advice and just work to also make money, not necessarily greater things.
>>743300978Don Gaben sent his regards. He turned the game release into a battle royale where you fight with ~100 other game releases per day. So don't cry if it turned into a meta-chasing fest
>>743300978which of the backrooms games is good?
You're an idiot who sees the slop and assumed it replaced everything interesting. The barrier to entry of indie games is lower, people make slop, the good stuff is still around but just harder to find in the waves of shit.
It is honestly disturbing how soulless it is. You’re right about the dev tools too. Most of these new devs use a system where you can literally pick out a premade gameplay mechanic and just slot it into the game. Like oh, you want there to be wall climbing in your platformer? Here is the wall climbing module, just drag and drop it into the game. Here are 10 Steam indies that used this same module, they cleared 184,000 in sales and have a 87% very positive score and only 7% of customers refunded Like it honestly feels more soulless than AAA now
>>743301310Name all the interesting games. I tried demon tides recently and it was fine but nothing that great, I would rather just play Mario Odyssey because at least the camera works and the controls feel 10x tighter and more refined
>>743300978Everyone wants to be the next Notch with none of the passion or soul.
>>743301498Do your own fucking homework m8. How are we supposed to know what you like?And you're a tendie, so giving you recs is probably an exercise in futility anyway.
>>743300978vgh why do devs only make games people want to play..... why dont they make games in the shitty subgenre i pretend to like..... theres no games... no not that one i wont play thatno not that one either that looks like shovelwareno fuck off stop shilling that oneno i didnt look at steam next fest i dont have time for that i have to do my gacha dailies buy an adUGH there's just no games bros......
>>743301574Lol that’s what I thought. Couldn’t name a single game
>>743301637I want imsim RPGs and stealth games. They won’t make those though, and the few that came out are stuck in early access hell and aren’t as good as Deus ex
>>743301643Yes my man, everyone is so eager to give you recommendattions that you have already in advance decided to call shit.
>>743301692>prefers the same genre as meAlright yeah you're right they need to make more of those. Fuck indie devs. Fuck all software developers actually. And fuck Square Enix.
>>743301692>inb4 BUT INTRAVENOUS!!!!It’s literally a fucking flash game, fuck off
>>743301692The new Styx game came out recently, haven't played it though. I'm gonna assume it was another 7/10 breddy gud game.
Economy sucks for everyone so you cant be surprised that people want to get paid.The era of freeware in the late 90s and 00s ended around the time digital distribution infrastructure became sustainable.There are people who still make stuff for free, but theyre a minority of the industry.Its still worth keeping an eye on games that range from free to economical in price (20bux still remains a good benchmark), youll get a lot more bang for your buck than buying some designed-by-committee garbage at 80 dollars.
>>743301753I would give my left nut for another dude sex >>743301749You sound afraid of me criticizing your tastes. Just state what you like or fuck off, this isn’t advancing the conversation
>>743301692>I want [genre that doesn't sell]that's crazy
>>743300978I made a deck builder as a passion project and I'm having enough fun testing it but I'm wary to start making it public because there's just a fuck ton of them. Normal deck builders are mostly in the Slay the Spire wheelhouse where you collect options for your character whereas I went with a CCG variant where you do the StS style map crawl but it's Temu Hearthstone. Looking into indie spaces for the past two years has kinda made me think it's better to just leave it as a hobby project, especially since I have a fuck load of code to write, cards to design, and things to draw, so I'll never be bored, and I have a day job that pays the bills.
>>743301830>I would give my left nut for another dude sexI wouldn't lol
>>743301806I enjoyed the earlier Styx games. From what I’ve seen of the latest one it’s not a real stealth game anymore >>743301875Yeah fuck making good video games. Indie devs have so much PASSION and CREATIVITY right? Except it’s all funneled to what normalniggers want, so what’s even the point. Only AA and Japan can save us
When I hear people who claim "I have nothing to play" this is what comes to mind.
>>743301885There is a lot of open design space for games that arent just Spire ripoffs. Because every spire ripoff gets compared to spire, even spire 2 suffers this fate.Finish up your game at whatever pace you want but there is a void to be filled that craves novelty in mechanics.
It's the way it has been for every art form since the dawn of humanity and it's the way it will be forever. 90% of everything is shit. It's not really a problem worth getting mad about.There's definitely been a huge surge in mediocre indie games, but that's to be expected. It's more lucrative and accessible to get in to game dev than it has ever been. To get a game published on a storefront 10-15 years ago, a person or team would have to be really damn dedicated to making a game. Now any dumbass with a computer can download Unity and flip some assets. Again, though, it's not a problem. There's a lot more bad games being made, but there's also a lot more good games being made. If you're having trouble finding the good ones, that's a problem with your content creation methods, not the games.
>>743300978I simply do not play those games and do not engage with them, so I am not affected by these imaginary problems.
>multiple twitter screencap threads>they're all labeled IMG_XXXX.jpgI hate euro hours
>>743300978With some exceptions, they're the same drone-leftist r*ddit drones that plagues "Real" studios, only without the diversity checkbox to get hired. And it's not like every game needs to or even can be some """groundbreaking""" thing. Pretty much every kind of game that CAN be made with current hardware and user interface has been made at least 10 times over. But I could certainly do with less of the general lameness, sterility, and estrogen. Silkslop is a perfect example of paint by number safeindy tripe
>>743301268None of them
>>743302091That's fair, StS really does handle the experience well. The only real difference I can offer is a card game playing AI with a semi traditional CCG experience, so somebody would have to be interested in playing however many matches of YGO (not YGO specifically obviously but just as a reference), starting with a weak deck and winning/buying engine pieces along the way until they can beat a boss deck. Another 6ish months for art and code and I could probably upload an end to end loop, if it flops, well meh I already enjoy playing some primitive games with it.
>>743301995Going through popular new releases right now. So far the results:>Xcom but with zombies, only 70% positive reviews >roguelike with faux anime art style clearly made by a western studio >pixelated grand strategy >roguelike with faux anime art style clearly made by a western studio but with more action elements >carpet cleaning simulator >Sci-fi multiplayer shooter (looks kind of cool… might actually be good) >city builder>survival craft>EA football for some reason>generic friendslop >cozy store sim #828It goes on and on. Might check the sci-fi shooter, but games like that that seem cool and stand out are so few and far between. I can browse the steam store for two hours straight sometimes and find nothing worth a shit
>social deduction gamesYou literally don't need anything other than Mafia(.gg)
>>743302534I dunno man, maybe placing the absurdly limiring factor on yourself (new releases) wasn't the smartest thing to do.
>>743302524Games built off of the CCG experience do exist. Try Cardaire if you want an example of a single player campaign.One thing you could do is try to integrate draft mechanics if you want randomness and flexible decision making to be a core idea and draw for replay value, with opponents taking cards that you pass up on.
haha fun games go vrrrr
>>743302534Continued >gacha >linear PS1-style horror game made for streamers to fake react to, there’s literally, no exaggeration, hundreds if not thousands of games exactly like this with virtually 0 differences >early access survival craft>friendslop>friendslop>TPS creature collector, looks okay but apparently only has 3 hours of content>city builder >demake that got trashed by the original devs >early access Scrollslike that apparently has abysmal balancing, worse than Skyrim from 2011 so no point >cookie clicker clone>Mina, actually not a bad game, I played this on switch 2. Metacritic score is overly inflated though >flash game but costs money>007 first light, 5 or 6/10 game, not horrible but was pretty bad and I wish I waited for a crackIt’s grim out there folks
There's a lot of mechanics never used before that are there just waiting for devs to build games around. It's a shame that most devs just dress up mechanically bankrupt games in nice aesthetics. We live in the style over substance era of games.
>>743302995You sound like a massive faggot, kill yourself and go back to your tranny discord
>>743301885dont let ur insecurities fool you, there is no real reason to hide your game when the cost to release something on steam is almost zerobut yeah its probably better to have gamedev as a hobby than a job if you want to keep making the stuff you want to make instead of making the stuff that sells
>>743303091:)
>>743302783>integrate draft mechanicsOh yeah, this is the brass ring. The PvE experience is something I've coveted ever since they stopped making those YGO DS World Championship games, but the real meat is creating a draftable experience: round robin, top cut tourneys with at least 4 (human) players, preferably 8 (human players). Like the fan made MTG Forge experience. Alright I'm convinced, I'll keep staying up until 1am writing code for a few more months.
>>743302534>>743303025why dont you use the steam interactive recommender instead of just looking at a list of recent stuff?
>>743303025Man Voidling Bound is such a shame. It's like 60% of the way to actually being really good. It just seems like they ran out of budget or something midway through so they just shoved what they could out the door.
>>743303276It doesnt even necessarily need to be player v player, having a computer controlled agent with pre-coded playstyle profiles could create interesting opponents that fill in when you dont have enough human players.Even without a tournament format, you could still have a linear-ish experience where a rival/boss has a unique deck that gets suped up by the cards you pass up on, but still present it like a draft.There's a lot of creative stuff that could be done with it.Godspeed, man. In any case the dev experience itself should be fun for you. I hope it comes to fruition.
Wait you mean competition leads to bad products???
>>743300978>>early access roguelite deckbuilderthis is the worstso many rpg projects have been smothered in this crib
>>743302534>Going through popular new releasesthere's your problemas the arrow of time moves forward at a set pace and game quality remains more or less static (10% great, 20% fun enough to play, 70% shit) there are always going to be more fun or great old games than there will be new ones.As long as it isn't live service or pvp there's no reason to trendchase.
>>743300978>economy is doing terrible>everything is expensive>job market is wage cages galore>home ownership is a dream>UHHH WHY ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE MONEYGee idk anon why is that
>>743301971make your own games then idiet if you like them so much
>>743303276good luck on that anon, im starting on making my own ygomagic game as well, altho i kinda wanna make it more of an RPG like the tag force games
>>743304442your argument fails because it supposes everything you listed is my problem
>>743301498>Mario OdysseySo you dislike slop but bing bing wahoo is up your alley?
>recommend me a gameOk what do you usually like?>NOOOO I SAID RECOMMEND ME A GAME
>>743304697>more of an RPG like the tag force gamesThis is what I want as well tbqh, though the hardest part is making a coherent CCG that isn't just straight copying the inspiration games... though I'm coming around to the idea that copies/borrows are more of a conversation with the original than just a straight rip. Designing the actual game around the mechanics you want is fun, too, I hope you enjoy it. I worked over the action and resource economy for ages and ended up having to admit that MTG got it right with "ready/acted," or tapped/untapped, and Hearthstone was onto something with the deterministic mana rail. Combined they prevent players from anything too degenerate, depending on what's printed. I wish there were more places to talk about card game design but all we have are the games that exist, plus maybe a few communities that are interested in card design insofar as their favorite game goes. I spent a long time reverse engineering a programming language for card grammar and have been using a card-builder that generates card effect text (when [thing happens] filter [by source/card anatomy], if [condition] [is true/false] may-pay [cost] do [something] filter target [source/anatomy], etc) which taught me a lot about how to design the things she just about programming in general. It's a fun brain buster, but I think it's enjoyable for the right person, hope things go well with your game.
>>743304926>Why is this so this?>Oh that's not my problemYou don't actually care you just want to complain
>>743301637It's confused. Poor thing...
>>743301310>just harder to find in the waves of shit.no shit, I wish you could at least filter out AI generated cover images on steam
>>743301875>niche low budget games that target a small dedicated audience isn't of mass market appealIs this not the entire point of indie games??AAA games need to make their money back so they cant take risk, so indie devs and smaller publishers target those niche communities instead
>>743301971Passion and creativity don't pay the bills, it isn't the 90s anymore
>>743305893So what’s the point of indie if they’re just as creatively bankrupt and money obsessed as AAA?
>>743305893Ther are plenty of great free games people made for free in their spare time. Do you spend every waking moment thinking about muh money?
>>743301692>and aren’t as good as Deus exSo doy you want new games or do you just want more Deus Ex? Cause if so then there are mods to add to Deus Ex.
>>743305352Exactly. I don't care about "starving artists," but they care about money, and I have it. Maybe they should try making good games for a change.
>>743305893Your dayjob is what pays the bills.Vidya dev should be something you do for fun, because videogames are supposed to be fun.
>>743300978>There’s no passion or creativity anymore. All they care about is maximizing sales and minimizing returnsI notice this has been the case for most things, including people making any kind of art and content online. I know people need money and shit, but it's gotten so, so much worse in the past 10-15 years. When and why did people become so materialistic?
>>743305960>>743305994>what's the pointWhat's the point of any of this?Okay so if there are people making passion projects why are you whining?
>>743306335When the economy tanked and people realized the only way out of the permanent underclass is hitting the popularity lottery
>>743300978I like the metroidvanias with soulslike elements though. A lot. Like it’s my favorite kind of game. So I’m pretty happy. Playing Bio-Gun and having a blast!
>>743300978Anon the up and coming audience only plays Roblox, you have to appeal to them somehow
>>743306403In other words the market is massively over saturated with 3rd world striver mentality
>>743300978nothing, just keep playing what you like and ignoring what you don't
What games would you like to see? What would you consider to be interesting and original at this point?
>>743306584People wanting higher quality of life, yesAka the American Dream
>>743306664A rougelite deckbuilder but with some incremental souls like mechanics
>>743306664I want a game like the ones I played growing up. You know, something different from all the others. I'll know it when I see it.
I'll admit to liking friendslop but I also acknowledge that they are not valuable because of gameplay. They are not good games in the same way a visual novel is not a good game. It's unfair to say they are good games just because they're fun since the fun doesn't actually come from the game itself it comes from the friends which are fun regardless of which game.
>>743306978Friendslop is acceptable as an excuse for you and friends to get together and laugh it up. They're the vidya equivalent of a party game you play over drinks.If theyre priced low enough, they hit the perfect range of being a cheap thrill that you won't feel bad about having spent money on once you've had your fill and are done playing it.
>>743306978That's just intrinsic vs extrinsic
Market forces
>>743301398I fucking hate when I'm playing a game and I can instantly tell "Oh here's the new mechanic being sold in stores". The idea is fine but put more effort into it instead of drag and drop you know what I'm saying.
>>743300978>>friendslop>>early access roguelite deckbuilder>>early access survival craft>>city builder snooze fest>>pixelated metroidvania with soulslike elementsgamers vote for this with their wallets. indie devs respond to market forces.gamers are subhuman so want subhuman slop and therefore grt subhuman slop.
>>743300978Huh? You mean to tell me people want an easy paycheck? No way... No one's done that before.... Fucking retard.
>>743300978woah, art has been commercialized? i didnt know that, you are telling me that for the first time
>>743306335around the time wild game started to become scarce
>>743300978when was the last time you looked in to new releases yourself instead of relying on twitter/tiktok/whateverthefuck algorithms?
>>743300978>What went wrongwhat the fuck are you talking about nigger it's always been this way.maybe 1% of indies are decent which is still 1% more than AAA for the last twenty years
>>743301971go ahead and commission a studio or a dev to make any game you want
>>743301875I thought indie developers made games out of love for the medium and not to make money.
>>743300978Games aren't hand-made anymore. You just buy the assets you want in your game, including the mechanics.
>>743311071you thought wrong>dedicate 1-10 years of your life to a job with no compensation>and no i wont play it, go buy an ad
>>743311071Old indie devs did. The new ones are parasites and leeches.
>>743301692>stealth gamesbrush burialbrush burial: gutter worldbrush burial: bruiseland (not out yet but demo is)
>>743301268Pools
>I deserve free games catered to me in particular>ME ME ME
>>743311685Those are speed tranny games, not stealth
>There’s no passion or creativity anymoreYeah but some of them are still there.Like this finnish dude making Road to Vostok solohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXwoX-NapocThere is the game OPERATOR being made and updated by one guyGood work and stuffThe game Bodycam made by 2 guy too
>>743311964buy an ad
>>743312001You're a bot
>>743305267thx, im planning to have something similar to the mana rail for mine, at first ill be experimenting with having the players decide whether to draw a card or increase their mana allowance at the start of their turn, and then ill see what that leads to
>>743300978>live in a capitalist hellhole timeline where inflation is skyrocketing>”guh, why are devs so desperate to get money?”
Its like you faggots forgot about the dayZ early acess survival crafting craze.There will always be trend chasing.
>>743300978>city builder snooze festBased, love this boomer genre.
>>743301498>Withering Rooms>Intravenous 1&2>Underspace>Sulfur>Quasimorph>Beyond Citadel>ElinJust to name a few>Withering Realms>Iron Nest>Mars Tacticsjust to name a few more coming out this year that look promisingNow I guess this is the part where you say they all look like shit without elaborating because you're just kind of a faggot like that.
i have fun watching movies in discord with my buddies therefore discord is fun :-D!
>>743302534>>743302768>>743303025>>743304440Neither of you are particularly wrong, it's just that the steam store is filled with such a large quantity of garbage that sifting through it to find something decent has become a massive pain in the ass, and the filter system is still terrible and outdated.
>>743301692Ctrl alt ego is a complete game?
>>743301875Please go ahead and list examples of well-made (GOOD) indie games in that genre that don't sell
Calling it now, the next meta will be to release your first game for free to farm fans that buy your second one. This is of course the plebian route but not everyone has tons of money for marketing or billionaire connections
>>743300978Japs can only dream of making something as cool as this
>>743300978There are so many games coming. You are not supposed to like everything. Just check games recommended to you or follow some yt person who plays games that interest you and go from there.But on that note, there is lot of indie devs who act like EA, trying to follow trends and just quickly make something that they think will sell, usually they won sell because they are late to party and their game end to steam graveyard with other slop games. Steams algorithm is good at rising up games that gather interest in some way and worst slop will sink to the bottom.
>>743300978>I inherently hate these genresThat's your problem and doesn't imply "soulless"You might as well be someone who only plays movie games or ball and gun games. There's really no difference in what you're whining about.
>>743312586geniustheres just one problem70% of 20000 yearly releases on steam are played by nobody
>>743300978actual indies barely exist anymorethe indie market got very competitive. so "indie" publishers (often just fronts for megabucks corporate publishers) became the kingmakers who direct cash to these cozy roguelike survival crafting slop games over and over. they do this because they religiously adhere to quantitive marketing metrics like wishlists and sales. just like AAA do. the problem with that is these metrics, like the stock market, tell you past performance. not future performance. so everyone copies the past and nothing new gets made. then one guy in a basement does do something new and they instantly try to copy that one guy until the next genre is beaten like a dead horse. tl:dr marketing metrics killed indies
>>743312586that's what demos are for
>>743312775Okay but nearly all of those releases are asking for money. The point is that in releasing your game for free you are no longer in competition with them. Everyone loves free games, especially ones that were made with le passion. It's a good filter too because industry tourists in it for the money would not have enough patience to bother working on a full fledged game for free even if it's part of a greater plan. Unless the meta becomes the norm and they will be forced to do it
>>743300978>What went wrong with indie game developers?nothing, just find new games that aren't marketed instead of being mad that marketed stuff is shown to you
>>743312836A demo isn't a full game. The implication is that they're throwing you crumbs to showcase something that you will eventually have to pay for which is not the same as getting an entire game for free
>>743300978You aren't the target audience for gaming unironically. We were left behind.
>>743313132you will never even learn about existence of that game without some form of marketing in the current economy where 50 games are released on steam every single day
>>743300978>be me>Make somewhat successful roguelike incremental>Want to take a break from rogueslop, create this small little story based game, takes around an hour to beat>Sells 4% of what my roguelike sold>The reviewers loved it>20% refunded because it was under the 2 hour refund windowYup, back to creating slop, it's what the people want.
>>743313401Or you could just, you know, make it fucking longer.
>>743300978Just play old games. Leave the Steam rat race to zoomers.
>>743313536>make something that doesnt sell even longer
>>743313536Then it removes the cost/benefit ratio, stupid. If It takes me the same amount of time to develop a roguelike as it does a short story based game, but the roguelike sells 20X the amount, then why would I spend more time developing the story based game?
>>743313296You would learn about them much more easily than paid games because good free ones with passionmaxxed devs market themselves
>>743313679Ever consider that the reason it didn't sell wasn't because it was slop but because it just wasn't as good as you thought it was?
>>743300978>indie game developersThey are not indie game developers, they are soulless attention whores.
>>743313132you don't need a full game motivate someone to purchase. Demos have worked successfully for more than 3 decades
>>743313536like unlocking costumes or ng+? lengthening a game would ruin it
>>743312126Video games only exist due to capitalism btw
>>743313780The idea of good is nebulous in today's market. People think Balatro is the greatest game ever made and treat it as the golden standard
>>743313717you have no idea of what you are talking aboutim guessing you are a kid that doesnt even realize that everything he sees and thinks was fed to him throught a social media algorithm
I miss when indie games had sovl. Japan used to be the best places to find hidden gems but now it's all deck building roguelike garbage shitfests. I especially hate that roguelikes have essentially killed the indie scene for action rpgs.
>>743313931buy an ad
They by and large have always been trend chasers.
>>743313401Post the game faggot
>>743312376This is more of a "90% of people are useless npcs and should never ever be allowed to be creatives" problem than a steam problem. Because EVERY storefront has had an explosion of really shitty slop from indie devs ever since the barrier to entry has fallen. The main problem is that most people are not nearly as interesting or creative as they think they are and they cant handle that idea. Legitimately if most people actaully understood how boring and soulless they are they would probably kill themselves. Their minds convince them they are far more interesting than they are, so they legitimately think all of this really shitty slop being made is interesting.
>>743313401>people who play video games want to play video gamesI'm sorry your Gone Home slop didn't take off.
>>743313817That... wasn't the point at all. I'm not talking about whether or not people purchase your paid game, I'm saying that a full free one is wholly different than a paid product especially in 20000 games a year environment. And even if we were talking about a demo's impact on sales the comparison doesn't work either because before the indie game boom we didn't have nearly as many games released per year
>>743300978How would a genuinely unique and competent single player experience make itself visible?There are hundreds of games added to Steam every day, if you can't go viral on some friendslop stream how will anyone even know you exist?
>>743314019you can begin with yourself, i almost fell a sleep reading your shit
>>743314146>t. npc who will only ever make slop
This last year, specifically for indie titles alone, I played/replayed>Elin>Mina the Hollower>Rabi-Ribi>Palworld >Amazing Cultivation Simulatorwhich doesn't even include Silksong and PipistrelloMaybe 'creativity' shouldn't be conflated with 'make specifically what I want'
>>743314019I personally believe that a lot of them know they're making shitty games but just don't care because they want money and think their idea will make a quick buck.
i full heartedly believe that valve would greatly improve the market by raising the price of publishing to $500
>>743314195Lets say that there are like, 100 really creative indie games from the last few years. I dont know if its more or less, but for the sake of argument lets just go with that. Now how many non creative shovelware slop games do you think there are. 10000? 100000? 1000000? The ratio of good to bad is so insanely small that it makes discoverability the biggest problem with any storefront that opens itself up to the masses being able to put their games up for sale.
>>743300978>make passion game>make no money and go brokegame devs will make whatever you incentivize them to make. and gamers collectively buy the fuck out of these slop games so people will keep making them.passion projects rarely make money. if you want to see more passion projects you have to start buying them.
>>743314195>PalworldBad bait
>>743314417no im an algorithm baby, if i dont see that my favorite eceleb is playing it i will never ever touch it
>>743314293I'd like to see $1000 personally. 40% of all steam games don't hit the current reimbursement of their $100, which happens at $1000. A reimbursement of the $1000 once you hit $2000 in sales would eliminate damn near half of the steam games put up daily.
>>743300978All better than AAAslop sorry
>>743314326>discoverability the biggest problemPeople say this and yet we have hidden gem threads almost daily and Anons who claim this are always asked to provide games that are completely unknown BUT ALSO GOOD.Yes, Angry Birds 7 will sell more than Rabi-Ribi, but that does not imply the latter is undiscoverable.
>>743314694im guessing 90%, not half, will be gone to itchio
>>743314606That's another huge part of the problemThe taste of gamers of unbelievably influenced by advertising and marketing. The games industry has gotten very good at various kinds of stealth marketing, like astroturfing or influencer/streamer collaborations.Everyone thinks they have an extremely calibrated and refined taste in "good games". And they are all barely aware of how heavily they are influenced by influencers and stealth marketing.Most of you would not believe me if I explained how sophisticated some of the marketing techniques are.
>>743313902I'm likely older than you but go off. I know you can't really compare freeware and flash games to today but you can still draw some parallels. Besides that, an algo still operates within the confines of a market. If a market becomes too efficient people in it drop out. It's for the same reason that indie games became a thing after studios got too big and now we have come full circle with the indie scene. The thesis anyway is that the easy grift is gone and the only way forward is to prove yourself as a creator before anybody pays you. Because barely anybody is paying you now anyway and soon to be even less
Can anyone name ten (10) good games on Steam that aren't selling enough to be viable?
>>743314807Hidden gem threads are great for us anon, but the vast majority of steam users are not using /v/ hidden gem threads.
It's debatable if Sakuna is a doujin game or not but the game was in development for a loooong time before marvelous got involved. It's also the best doujin game in the past 10+ years.
>>743314905>but go offI dont even have the appropriate reaction image for how fucking cringe it is that you would say this. Holy shit dude lurk more.
>>743314049a good demo is better than a mediocre full free game. What is the purpose of making your first game free? Create credibility and build an audience? Demos do that. Demos are still the best way to market your game. It IS the current meta
>>743315017The lurk more meme has been dead for like 10 years but go off
>>743314935My point is that people claim that thousands of good games are supposedly on steam that nobody knows about but never actually substantiates that. The hidden gem threads don't prove that we actually have thousands of hidden gems, it proves that >discoverability the biggest problemis overblown. Most good games do actually become known even if they don't sell as much as Hitlerkiller69
>>743314694i'd be in favor of them doing that but lowering their % cut on indie sales by 10%, it should be the AAAs paying the full steam tariff not the little guys
>>743315061
>>743300978Fact of the matter is that what sells, sells. So why bother making something unique, and risking financial ruin, when you could just make run of the mill slop that might sell well.
>>743315036doom and descent were shareware anyway
>>743315036Demos aren't a full fledged game and they are marketing for something you will be forced to pay for. I can't make it any clearer than that. The autists that get obsessed with your work and make it their life's mission to spread its gospel don't come from a badly designed 20 minute trooncore ps1 demo. All you get from that are people who are chronically on discord talking about how the protagonist is sexy and the funny memes that come from this humorous obersevation
i thought about making a game and the only thing i could come up with is making a porn one, since people on f95 for example will literally play anything, unlike on steam, which at least gives you some chance of being noticed
>>743301692>stealth gamesMark of the Ninja is a good one.
>>743300978I have friendslop fatigue
>>743300978all according to plan
>>743315410Porn games live and die by their art and the fetishist they appeal to.Gameplay is merely a formality, though some actually do actually try to be porn games instead of porn galleries.
>>743301268vrchat unironically has the best backrooms/liminal worlds
>>743315454Who is forcing you to play them?
>>743315561I'm being forced to look at them in the store page, which offends me.
>>743306335It has always been like this. The only reason it feels more prolific is that corporations realized that managing the logistics of digital storefronts for random schmucks was an incredibly profitable market niche. You didn't see every shitty asset flip back when Steam had a quality control board for new submissions, but you started seeing them once that board was replaced with "Give us $100 dollars." You didn't see every shitty beach glass necklace and crocheted Mario before shop-as-a-service suppliers like Square made it possible for a mom to get her store online in half an hour and a credit card swipe.
>>743315410>literally play anythingI think it's that same mentality that leads to all the crap on Steam being made and failing. Despite how low quality or soulless a success may look to you, there's infinitely more failures that never even come to your attention.
>>743315603>I'm being forced to look at them in the store pageWho is forcing you to do that?
>>743315603Filter the tag, niggy. You dont have to see anything.
>>743300978>what's wrong with indie developers now>they keep making games that people actually buylol, lmao
>>743315620>Steam had a quality control boardthere was never a quality control "board". it was literally a single guy who you had to email and beg to put you on steam lmao
>>743314935I spend my time more on that site where you can granularly filter games. A lot of my time is spent looking for ones with low review counts and such Although I found some cool ones I'd have to laugh at the suggestion that any of them are a suitable substitute for mid budget games released before the 2010s. I feel like I'm crazy because everyone around me lowered their standards
>>743306335>but it's gotten so, so much worse in the past 10-15 yearsOh definitely. There definitely wasn't mountains of crap being released on Atari and Nintendo. Actually, the only difference is that the tools and knowhow are more accessible and we are far more globalized thanks to the Internet. Otherwise, this is nothing new.
>>743315748Sounds like quality control to me
>>743315753>I feel like I'm crazy because everyone around me lowered their standardsWho are these people and what are they playing?
>>743315527A Struggle with Sin is pretty successful despite the horrendous art style that he chose, i believe the 'strength' of that game is how much shit you can do in it, ie gameplay. Not the walking itself but all the characters, quests and so on.
>>743315876People that I assume are around my ageThey're playing hidden gems
>>743315715I filter adult games and this still showed up for me on popular new releases.
>>743315930>everyone is playing hidden gemsseems contradictory.
>>743300978Feels like everyone is either a beggar or a careerist these days
as usual, its because (You) are retarded and never go digging for the actual interesting shit. Like yeah, no shit the trendchasing indie games are going to suck, but if you gave half a shit and dug slightly below the surface, youll find great shit.
>>743315646on steam people dont play anything, nobody looks in to the new releases, it is more than evident, i dont know why people who make these games havent figure out that without off-store marketing they are doomed to 0 players.
>>743315991Context was people who apparently have discovered the solution to indie games and believe themselves to be above it all because they played something with 124 reviews instead of Slop the Spire and think they know better. The argument falls apart entirely when met with a person who is even more autistic about manual game discovery than they are and knows the landscape well. At that point it becomes a matter of taste, which is where the standards argument is relevant
>>743300978And there's retards who think indies will save gaming.
>>743316139>nobody looks in to the new releases, it is more than evidentsee>>743315094I never actually see people name all these supposedly great games that are going undiscovered.
>>743316039This. If you can't find anything then you don't play games, you just want your heavily marketed brand name cereal like a shallow faggot.
>>743315947>abusesomeone call visa
Indie horror is especially bad. There's not a SINGLE good indie horror game. It's walking sims, child friendly thing but "scary", empty rooms because zoomers can't handle being alone in their own thoughts, or an allegory for mental illness or capitalism.
>>743306856Isn't that what indie games are? Shitty clones of old games?
>>743316372Every time someone names games (Ive seen lists of 20+ that span multiple genres even), they without fail will get a response that claims all of them are shit and its obvious that its just a driveby shitpost from someone who doesnt play vidya at all. And in response there is always a faggot like (you) that insists that hidden gems dont exist and no one can prove it despite lists of them being provided. Faggots like you have a predictable MO
>>743315094just the bare statistic of thousands of games with 95% positive reviews but less than 100 players proves that there is a massive oversupply compare to demand.
>>743316909>I could give proof but it wouldn't mattergenuine unironic cope.
>>743300978Go back to twitter you fucking nigger
>>743316764No, they’re often pretty good clones if you don’t have a stick up your ass.
>>743311071Yeah, that was devs with non-game careers who made games as a hobby. They still exist.But you will find that "one man auteur with a vision" are vastly outnumbered by people trying to make a buck. As it is in most things.
Indies should cater to zoomers, thats a correct thing to do, simply because they dont have sky high expectations from playing games for 30 years
>>743316909This. It's blatantly obvious when someone doesn't actually wanna talk about video games and just wants to choose to be mad. The difference between people who are actually open to things being better and would be happy if they got the answer, and those who are invested in calling things shit to the point that there's no use in talking to them.These people are usually autistic as well, so they end up befuddled that you can pick up on such social cues and sus them out.
>>743317396>simply because they dont have sky high expectations from playing games for 30 yearsThis.Zoomers aren't bogged down by 30 years of nostalgia that gets in the way of actually appreciating games or otherwise warping their perception/expectations. The average zoomer has played more of the classics and greats than the oldheads ever had, yet can seamlessly switch to playing the sloppiest slop as long as it's fun.They're a great generation to market too because they're far bigger fans of vidya than any other generation yet also have no stick up their asses.
>another "everything is shit" threadDon't you get tired of wallowing in your own misery?
>>743300978this is like getting mad everyone made platformers in the 80s and kart racing games in the 90s. you're dumb.
>>743316039>below the surface>is published by same company who did space marine, vampyr, plague tales, etc.it's a fun game but hardly below the surface, and had a marketing budget to enter into the autistic game influencer sphere
>>743300978People just wanna have fun and AAAs aren't offering that any more because they're too busy being about "The Message", and even people who agree with "The Message" are sick of fucking hearing about it.
>>743301806I'm sad to tell you this is not the case. Styx 3 is a very below average open world game.
>>743301692Seem every indie game is about happy female witches living in the forest OR genderless heroes in roguelites.Deus EX in the opening they literally say "The Corporations have more power than any gov" accompanied by Illuminati symbols. Indie's utopias really miss the mark because none of them are made by anyone looking at the real life dystopia we already have and using it as inspiration
>>743303724It's supposed to have some free updates down the road. I do agree that I wish there was more to it because I like what they're doing.
>>743300978>passion or creativityWho cares about that when you could shit out a "game" about climbing mountains and get streamers to shill it for you, making you bank? At the end of the day most people care more about being able to buy groceries and would gladly bend over backwards to slobber on a fat cock if it meant the could become a billionaire
>>743301692>imsim RPGs and stealth gamesthere are tons of those. man i swear to God, none of you guys in these threads ever bother to go digging even a little bit. here are a few im eyeing/bought.>Retrospace>Imprisoned Hyperion>Filcher>Blood West>The Holy Fool>The Lantern of the Laughless Saint>Fortune's Run>Serpens: Eternal Thievery>Sonar Shock>Skin Deep>Brigand: Oaxaca (kind of old now tbf)>Monomyth>Gloomwood>Weird Westthere are more but i cant recall them right now.
>>743318303im not saying it is obscure or anything, but im saying compared to the average whining anon's degree of digging, its below the surface.
What’s wrong with /v/ - video games?>thread complaining about indies>why aren’t MMO’s good anymore>I’m an adult with no time for games now waah >nostalgiabait>zoom vs boom vs millenial vs alpha shitflingingThere’s no passion or creativity anymore. All they care about is maximizing (you)s and minimizing discussion, gaming the janny system, using the laziest possible shitposts etc…
>>743301692It's not much but I'd suggest the followingimsim RPGS:>Ctrl Alt Ego for a bit of an esoteric game. You control various robots and machines around the place.>Blood West is a bit repetitive, but fun.stealth games>Filcher: Totally not Thief. Used to have a problem where you weren't allowed to save mid missions but now you can after an update that's two months old now. It's not the black parade but honestly what is>Shadow Tactics/Desperados 3: More or less the same game with a different coat of paint. Real time stealth tactics. Really shines when you start going for the optional/hidden challenges.>Invisible Inc.: Is a decade old at this point but a really good isometric turn based stealth game with procedural generation.>Spirited Thief: I'm probably this game's only shill on the planet but it's also another really good isometric turn based stealth game without procedural generation.>Eriksholm The Stolen Dream: Isometric, linear, fairly story based, but has some nice stealth setpieces and is a suprisingly purdy game.>Unmetal: Genuinely good Metal Gear(the top down MSX games, not Solid) parody.Sadly much of what I'm looking forward to for either genre is still in either eternal early access or just a blanket "to be announced" release date. And as much as I really like all the stealth games I listed above it still doesn't scratch the itch of just a traditional first/third person stealth game.
>>743300978i stopped paying attention to indie titles for years at a time because i feel like if i observe them then they never come out>t. have a fistfull of games that i would buy day 1 no questions asked, have been delegated to never ever in my mind
>>743316039Sounds like you are saying there is a problem with Steam's ability to surface these kinds of games.What do you think could improve the situation?
>>743315723the invisible hand always wins
>>743313951i also hate whenever people talk about video games on the video game board meant for talking about video games
>>743300978Can't blame 'em. It's what every game dev gurus told you about if you want to succeed in indie space. It's like social media with an extra step.
>>743320239im saying there is a problem with (You)r brain as you have conditioned yourself to rely on algorithms to serve your fatass shit on a silver platter. know what you want and go looking for it. its the same as being a crate digger for music rather than just relying on Slopify to tell you what to check out. it takes time and you need some experience, but you can find it if you know what youre doing.
>>743320540How could we improve Steam to help people dig through crates, so to speak?
>>743300978Ok but I love roguelike deckbuilders and metroidvanias. Give them all to me.
I had a dream where I was playing a horror game where you were a shrunken man hiding feom a giant girl in her room.And when she found me in her drawer she picked me up and started rubbing me against her bodyNow thats a bajilion dollar indie idea
>>743320617Steam does have tools, they just lack visibilityhttps://store.steampowered.com/recommender/
>>743320239Not that anon but my take is to make community tags less shit. I don't have a concrete solution for them but I'd start with>weighting them better and relating them to other tags when recommending similar games. If I'm looking for stuff similar to mirror's edge there's no sense recommending shit like portal or the yet to be release castlevania belmont's curse because they share a female protagonist, viewfinder, atomic heart or luna abyss because they're both first person games>nuking overly general/zero value tags like the female protagonist, great OST, romance, singleplayer/co-op(that shit's already covered under the actual store page) or combat tags because they add fuck all, or at least ignoring them when recommending similar games>overhauling each tag's page so that searching the stealth game tag isn't end up recommending 50 gorillion Payday 2 DLCs, 0 review asset flips with AI generated cover arts and the ability to actually exclude tags and not just include them on these pages(no idea why that's not available here since it's available elsewhere on the steam storepage). You have no idea how much the action roguelite/incremental tags bother me when I'm trying to look up a genre.>crack down on 'humorous'(I'd add more quotes if I wasn't character locked) curators. Maybe have something like a community voted "you should play this if you enjoyed that" graph for games because the current existing one for steam is pretty general as well.Don't believe me? Look up the tag for "Dungeon Crawlers", the new and trending category.
>>743300978>EVERY INDIE DEVELOPER SHOULD MAKE AN ENTIRELY NEW GENRE>IF YOU AREN"T INVENTING A NEW GENRE THEN WHY EVEN BOTHER?is this what you're proposing? that we should have 50,000 new genres a year? how is that even possible?
>>743319876you're rightand i even gave the OP a (You). Fuckat least I sage'd
I dont mind most of the indie "slop" that comes out, but i do think its been ravaged by grifters and youtubers that spout "Make small games that are trending on Steam!" like chris Zuwoski.I dont mind and idle clicker or rouge deck building, but you can easily tell when a dev has 0 passion or knowledge of the genre and is just trying to hit a lottery ticket with minimum effort.take pic related for example, a "dev" that is balls deep in this mantra that puts the minimum amount of effort, with 0 understanding or interest in the genre they are making, simply to make a quick buck
>>743320617Forcibly reroute people to their recommended games listings, the personalized calendar, or curators at random when they try to go to the front page of the store.
>>743320930this. the immersive sim tag on steam is notoriously shit. it recommends a ton of stupid shit like euro truck simulator and house flipper because they are "simulation" games and "immersive" which is ridiculous
Few indies do try something new and become the one to imitate, but it does happen. It will never be the case with AAAs. They will be the last ones to imitate something that indies made popular. They are still making walk & talk games attempting to recapture TLoU.
>>743321230this. you really see this with the rampant remake culture where it tries to homogenize every single game into being TLoU like the resident evil remakes.
>>743320930the tag system is fucked. There was one game i saw a while ago and tried to find it through tags and it was literally impossible. Eventually found a youtuber who covered it to find the name.
>>743321789Either way, mean to add the picture. It was this.
>>743301268For single player the complex ones, Pools, and MAYBE dreamcoreFor multiplayer probably backrooms escape together if you wanna be scared, and escape the backrooms for more content but shittier graphics.
>>743311795>>I deserve free games catered to me in particular>>ME ME ME
>>743320617They recently removed the Classic tag which is funny. I think they're trying to encourage everyone to play as much slop as possible
>>743320617steam should have a team of actual humans who review newly or unreleased games and boost the interesting non-sloppa stuff to the front page occasionallysadly they don't care, in fact Gabe's store removed the upcoming games preview which was one of the only ways small indies could get anywhere near the front page
>>743315748yeah they should go back to that
>>743322635That would basically kill Valve's business. But nice try Timmy. You're getting more clever with these!
>>743300978indie developers are reality challenged
>>743304946Mario Odyssey is a masterpiece you faggot. No need to play other shit if you have this game
>>743303025funny how people shit on spotify for ruining music with algorithms but somehow this doesn't apply to steam
>>743300978do you think bills pay themselves
>>743300978Oh yeah it was so much better when every single indie dev game was bing bing wahoo platformers aping atari and snes visuals (poorly) with the occasional fez gimmick. Indieshit has been the same derivative garbage ever since indieshit began to exist. Give it a few years and they'll all move on from making shitty faux-n64/psx horrorslop to copying every single trend and visual style from the 7th gen.
>>743300978>friendslopThe only "people" who used this phrase are faggots who have no friends
>>743301268The Complex and it's only a walking simulator, but Backrooms are only about vibes anyway, not gameplay.
>>743301692This was posted in an earlier thread.
>Indie 2D Zelda clone>...with Souls combat and crafting!FUCK YOU
>>743324986EVERY FUCKING TIME
>>743324732>TBA>TBA>TBA>COMING SOON>TBA>TBA
>>743300978Talentless losers see gamedev as one of the last golden tickets to getting fabulously wealthy. Everyone wants roll the dice and be the next Minecraft, Slay the Spire, Vampire Survivor, Hollow Knight, etc. That's why every time someone comes out with something fresh and it gets super popular you get dozens of retards trying to jump on the bandwagon and churn out their slop.
>>743305267>>743304697have you played baten kaitos?
>>743311439Nobody said indishits had to quit their ACTUAL job to make their itchio horrorslop walking sim, retard.
>>743300978>social deduction gamesIf you don't get banned from those servers withing a month you shouldn't be posting in here.
>>743300978Seems like a skill issue, my wishlist has a bunch of indie games that are not any of that.
>>743311964>literally just tarkov with bots and artificial difficulty in a trash engine
>>743300978The problem with indie games is that no one making them is actually passionate about anything aside from making money. They see all of these cheap, low effort slopfests that end up selling millions of copies, and all they can think is that it's a get rich quick scheme.
>>743313710>>743313679>20% refund rate because it can be beaten faster than the refund limit>nooo you can't expect me to make it longer and more worth playing>also everything is about MONEY passion is gay I need MONEY MONEY MONEY>btw it's only AAA that are greedy tho
>>743300978Indie games are just the modern flash games that are all the same, except you pay money for them
>>743324732>noir as envisioned by someone who thinks noir is just fancy hats and nighttime>thi4f but with time powers>thi4f but with eyerape visuals>thi4f but with a curved knife>half life 2 but only the ravenholm and ending sequences with no zombies>isometricgame pretending to be an imsim>dishonored with guns>splinter cell but in generic vr training evironments>yet another faux-ps2 game so """""""""""""inspired""""""""" by mgs it steals an entire dialog line>furry tarkov but third person and sneaky
Anons, speaking of indie games - any ULTRAKILL players? The FOV is at 110 and it's... idk it feels weird. Is that intentional? Looks fucky to me. What's a good FOV for this game?
>>743312342lol he didn't even reply
>>743300978Every modern indie game has such an obvious direct influence that it's nauseating. I would like to be able to look at one and not immediately say "that's like X old game"
>>743329393the problem is that old games covered basically every possible visual style and new games all look the same. So anything that isn't modern third person over the shoulder realism will look like a specific old game. Unless they do some horrid post processing style like Obra Din.
>>743328570>ultratroon
>>743300978https://store.steampowered.com/app/3191030/Nubbys_Number_Factory/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3191050/BRAZILIAN_DRUG_DEALER_3_I_OPENED_A_PORTAL_TO_HELL_IN_THE_FAVELA_TRYING_TO_REVIVE_MIT_AIA_I_NEED_TO_CLOSE_IT/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2768430/ATLYSS/https://store.steampowered.com/app/3033620/500_CALIBER_CONTRACTZ_Demo/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2610650/Dont_Stop_Girlypop/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2011780/Yellow_Taxi_Goes_Vroom/idk these are pretty different from what yout described. maybe you just suck at finding games.
>>743301268backrooms 64
>>743332069>brazilian drug dealer 3yeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UctWMCT2Kc&list=PLBGV9KQWNyDBPBgCR4X8fVT8s4lZPbxEF&index=12
>>743301692They still have to make money to some degree.It's a criminally under-served genre, but it's also a comically unpopular one.Imsim RPGs also take a lot more time and effort to make, and usually require a higher degree of competence from a larger team to actually pull off.
>>743329393Anon, everything is derivative. That's why I started by reading Gilgamesh, Tales Before The Flood, and Instructions of Shuruppak - the most ancient shit we have, The Bible copied the Mesopotamian Flood.Basically, everything stems from these stories, and these old stories are inspired from some old wellspring lost to time - or perhaps they were original, who knows.Anyway, that was my approach, then I did the same shit for gaming, like playing old-ass arcade and NES games to get the whole picture - and EVERYTHING is derivative. Basically every single FPS is just Doom, and Doom is just Wolfenstein, and Wolfenstein is just Ultima Underworld as a catalystAnd then Castle WolfensteinThen there's ancient 3D crawlers like Dungeon Master and WizardryThere's some other ancient shit but basically it's linked to Dungeons & Dragons - and that shit stems from Tolkien, Tolkien is mythology about the Fae and whatnot and he takes DIRECT inspiration from Mesopotamia, Ahura Mazda vs Ahriman stuff, The Bible, Norse mythology, maybe greeks. And each of these are influenced by the older ones.So that's the "original" Doom - still derivative - and that's just one genreBasically, shut the FUCK up retard, the ADULTS are TALKING...
Dooo.... Doo-wah. Doooo... Doo-wah. Wawawawawa...
>>743300978>pixelated metroidvania with soulslike elementsthis is unironically basically the pinnacle of gaming though.
>>743300978>>friendslop>>early access roguelite deckbuilder>>early access survival craft>>city builder snooze fest>>pixelated metroidvania with soulslike elementsThese are all things that are easy for a small team or even a solo dev to make. Bigger projects require bigger teams. Bigger teams require bigger budgets (maybe not the gorillians AAA devs shovel into their faces, but still big bux).
>>743300978>What went wrong with indie game developers?they make what people want to playif you want more artsy fartsy walking sims maybe you should play mixtape
>>743324732none of these are out yet
>>743300978Same shit that happened with board games.>hey, I have this super fun card game>Is it skat?>no, what the hell is skat? anyways the player winning the trick
>>743303025Use the Exclusion Tags
>>743334984They need to increase the tag limit.
>>743335319It barely works as is. Increasing the tag limit would probably break it entirely.
>>743301547Minecraft has zero soul. It doesn't even have a point
>>743300978Most peoples irl life is just "friendslop" if you think about it. As usual, blame the normies.
Everything in life is monetized now, I bet there are even some anons being paid per post on this website. It's so fucking grim.
>>743301875Wild that the entire point of the thread is your lowest common denominator dronie dogslop killing gaming for sapient mammals
>>743300978Gotta chase the YouTuber money sadly
>>743338410You dont take screencaps of the funny ragebait threads you make for money on insta?
>>743306335>When and why did people become so materialistic?When they became mostly brown. Valuing actual productivity itself is almost exclusively a White characteristic. Every other species on earth values doing as little as possible while sucking down the most resources possible. It's easy to notice every low IQ race blowing their money on silly shit to make them look visibly rich to other brown retards. See this video turkroaches themselves thought it was a good idea to post, comparing a White guy eating a normal meal to their "much grander" pile of food that they would eat maybe a third of and waste the rest.>>743306805The American Dream was never to slopscam your way into a lottery ticket, you turdjuggling subcon shitmonkey dalit
>>743301498Intergalactic FishingVoid StrangerUFO 509KingsStick it to the Stickman maybe depends on your definition of indie. made hy the guys who made BroforceShogun ShowdownHeroes of Science and FictionNo I Am Not HumanDomekeeperNoitaRift Wizard seriesMewgenicsBackpack HeroIsle of ReveriesAlice is Dead Hearts and DiamondsAlruna End of HistoryLucky Tower UltimateLegends of the Round TableKaizen a factory storyBrutal Orchestra
>>743306664If you can't pitch your game without just bluntly stating the genre in the Steam blurb, it's derivative shit. "Roguelike," "deckbuilding," "boomer shooter" etc etc should never appear in the fucking blurb, you unimaginative beige flavored bowl of watery oatmeal
>>743300978>city builder snoozefestshut the fuck upI've been dying for new games in this beloved genreSHUT THE FUCK UP
>>743334984>PlatformerThat is one of the Big Four types of Pure Game, you retard. Alongside Gunball, Melee, and Vehicle
>>743305960There isn't, get a real hobby like birdwatching or woodworkingGames are not for fun. They are for profit. They are products. It's easy to ignore with childhood low standards, but once you grow up if you want fun you have to make it yourself.
>>743314694>>743315105$500 publishing cost for games under 200mb, $1000 for larger. No steam tarrif on the first $500 in sales, 15% cut on $500 to $5000, full 30% after $5000. Refunds do not substract from those sales marks. Games over 1 gigabyte or with micro-transactions / separate launchers / sold on other storefronts always pay the full 30% from the first sale.
