What makes an MMO feel like a world instead of a game? What mechanic, system, or design choice creates that feeling?Player economies?Reputation?Territory?Travel?Housing?Guilds?Open-world PvP?Something else?What's the biggest difference between a persistent world and a multiplayer game with a lobby?
You're damned stupid if you can't answer that question yourself.
None of those things. "Feels like a world" is an RPG thing, not a multiplayer thing.
saar look at ai i make
>>743325254It feels like a world if it IS a world. No layering/instancing
>>743325254>Player economies?No those are almost always broken trash.>Reputation?Boring treadmill most of the time.>Territory?The fuck does that mean, like factions? No.>Travel?A little bit here. Games are can made or broken by their movement and travel systems. MMOs need one that makes the scale of the world feel huge but rewards the time you spend traveling with some limited way to get somewhere fast to group up.>Housing?Nice but never really matters.>Guilds?Successful ones are often dicks that hate each other, casual ones fall apart as a core member or two gets more into the game, and inbetween gets taken down by simps so fuck no.>Open-world PvP?RPG PvP is usually shit, that is what Quake is for.Something else?Scale. A world to journey through with plenty of flavor content, lore, and history to the point you feel like it was there long before your character got there and will be still without them. The the NPCs from big to small live a life not around the player but have their own shit to do and while you can become powerful and have agency in the game the world itself exists bigger than just one hero.
>>743327070NPCs are very limited in making a world feel alive, historically. Real players put you on the edge of your seat. Social identity is one of the most motivating (fun) notions.
>>743325254the other players you dumbfuckand no i don't mean pvp i mean the moment to moment interaction with other playersif you don't get it you never will because MMOs are dead
>>743325330>>743330696Why spazzoids get upset
nutriments nigger thread
>>743328576>No those are almost always broken trash.I can't even think of an MMO that doesn't have a good economy. Making gold is central to a good role in the world.>Boring treadmill most of the time.Reputation can mean unique crafting options and lower taxes, but player:player interaction is another way of having reputation. You could leaderboard the best crafters, PvEers, and PvPers.>The fuck does that mean, like factions? No.Territory control can mean a huge income (owning cities) and other benefits, like access to resources.>Successful ones are often dicksMost central guilds in good MMOs are powerful for a reason. Coordination and planning are key.>RPG PvP is usually shitI disagree. WoW has some of the best PvP in the genre, if not the industry.
>>743325254>Player economies This is a must, without them, the MMO becomes dungeon que trash like WoW/XIV.>Open World PvPThis is also important but it doesn't have to be server wide, as long the area where PvP is open actually has strong incentives to go to. If PvP is confined to que based Arena matchmaking, then it is garbage.>Social elementThis is the largest part, and why modern MMOs are dead. Nobody plays MMOs for socialization anymore, they get that elsewhere. So all MMOs nowadays feel like a solo experience.
I know nobody cares but I really want to try WoW. I paid for a $15 recurring sub and have installed every version. But I still haven't even made a character so I can get a refund.Do I just get a fucking refund and delete every version of the game? I seriously don't know why I should even give it the time of a day. I already enjoy RuneScape. Maybe that's enough.
>>743330696I mean a mechanic.
>>743332072>This is a must, without them, the MMO becomes dungeon que trash like WoW/XIV.I wish WoW had meaningful crafting. Aren't most professions leveled through new recipes?
>>743332072>This is also important but it doesn't have to be server wide, as long the area where PvP is open actually has strong incentives to go to.I feel that if players are playing on a PvP server, it should be game on anywhere.
If your MMO has PvP servers instead of making PvP the default then it isn't a PvP-first game.MMOs are either PvE or PvP. You can't have both.PvP MMOs like Albion or Eve have garbage PvE for that reason. PvE MMOs all include PvP only because of player expectations, not because it improves the game.You could remove PvP from so many MMOs.
>>743325254>feels like a worldLore that you can actually follow along with rather than just squeeze for EXP
>>743338041what about OSRS? It has full pvp worlds but the wilderness is pvp on all worlds
Ultima Online pre AoS, ideally pre trammel was something else. Outlands is as close as you can get now population wise but they've lumped on so much extra bullshit
>>743332097Retail is fun because you can get max levels like 50x quicker and play PvP, do M+, and maybe raid if you want.
>>743339887How is raiding now? Last time I saw raiding content was Cata.
What's the biggest missed opportunity in MMO design that no major studio seems interested in exploring?
>>743331842retarded take
>>743343269Living worlds.Not just PvP -- economies, territory, reputation, politics, trade, and logistics that players actually shape. The biggest missed opportunity is letting players create the stories instead of consuming developer-authored ones.
>>743344315How so?
>>743325254>What makes an MMO feel like a world instead of a gameWhat makes you think that i don't want the GAME i'm playing to feel like a GAME?
>>743325254Being young, relatively new to video games and playing the genre for the first time
>>743330345>Real players put you on the edge of your seat.No they don't. >Social identity is one of the most motivating (fun) notions.No it isn't.
>>743331842>Making gold is central to a good role in the world.No it isn't.
>>743344689Immersion is important to value.
>>743344781>He says on a forum.
>>743339887That is exactly what makes retail so shit, though. You skip 99.999999999% of the content the game has to offer just to play repetitive mediocre slop made for low IQs
>>743344867Not being able to utilize money is one of the worst mistakes an MMO can make.
>>743344983Most people don't like to quest for hundreds of hours per class. The fun of a class is its full kit. If you don't like max level PvE or PvP in WoW, you probably don't like themeparks.
>>743344923No it isn't. >>743345009No it isn't.
>>743325254it happens when you design rules that feel analog to the real worldverisimilitude is the word btw
>>743344983>made for low iqs Raiding is the only activity in an mmo that requires you to think at all.
>>743345080No, you zoomer ADHD riddled faggot. The fun is the journey to that point. There's nothing wrong with endgame content, but WoW's is low quality, derivative, repetitive. To skip all the content in the game just to play that is asinine. That mindset is what has cucked retail WoW to death and why theme park MMOs are dead now.
>>743345235>raiding >requiring you to think>when add-ons and weakauras play the game for youRaids haven't been remotely high IQ in any MMO for over a decade you pretentious retard.
>>743345190>Hurr.
>>743345219"Fantasy-meets-reality all things are possible" is basically the one thing people should center their (lifestyle and design) paradigms on.
>>743345190you can make one like that but it probably won't be successfulworldsim games are what mmos are at the core, otherwise there's no point to the shared space.
>>743345257It's not ADHD to favor PvP and PvE competitive content. Wanting to actually socialize with real players is > reading or skipping through quest text and mob grinds for hundreds of hours.
>>743345257Unless you have friends to play with, your journey is going to be boring since every single "player" you meet along the way has already beaten the content 100x and will rush you through it and alt+f4 if you make a single mistake.
>>743345561>>743345625Not being able to socialize on the journey to max level is more of an issue with WoW and the design focus it has taken over the last decade more than it is with the genre. WoW itself used to do this well, it just doesn't anymore because it started catering to people like who you value the end 0.0000001% of the journey over the actual journey itself.
>>743345257WoW's endgame content is vastly higher quality than its non-endgame content. Theme park MMOs are dead because gacha exploited the same mechanisms MMO leveling did better and faster.
>>743345257That journey was NEVER fun you low standards having faggot.
I click log ina quiet, dark background appears, the words LOADING... beating and glowing steadilysoon, my screen fills with the colors of the rainbowI observe my character as she awakens from her slumber, the particle effects from my free halloween wings from two years ago flying around methe sounds of the marketplace around me begin to swell and flow from my headphonesI see my fellow neighbors appearing out of thin air, surrounding me with their idle chitchat and cool dancing emotesthe global chat channel pings and buzzes with activity>FCK NGGERSI am home
>>743345625players are asocial faggots nowadays that take games way too seriouslyit absolutely wasn't like that back in the day and it's not really an easy problem to solve at alli think its the browns personally
>>743345798>I have low standards>for enjoying a giant handcrafted world over the same dungeon formula doing the same mechanics and the same rotation in the same way for the same rewards that i did 15-20 years agoNot very self aware, are we anon. You all sound like fucking zoomers that never played WoW in its heyday, and I say that as someone that wasn't even that big of a fan of it. You just don't get it.
>>743325254warcraftbeing a newborngetting my diaper changed in publicon whateverthemainRPserverwascalled in goldshire
>>743345712Phasing ruins leveling. I agree. But hundreds of hours of leveling (Classic) is too much for me.
>>743345898Are you actually leveling in Classic right now? Isn't it phased where approximately nobody matters?
>playing with randoms and not sweats>grindy vertical progression and RNG>emotesshrimple
>>743346068eh, i dunno. the 1-10 zones i love phasing because theres sometimes so many cunts people form lines at spawns waiting 10 hours to get a kobald candle
>>743345898Yes, you do have low standards for preferring a handcrafted artificial world designed to push you to do digital chores instead of something that takes a modicum of skill.
>>743346068>>743346129Classic is nowhere near the same as retail when it was at the same stage of development. Classic is almost nothing like old WoW actually was. It is not only a completely different game but also a completely different environment >>743346296>raids>skill>not choresYea you're just genuinely retarded and likely 20 years old
>>743346413Compared to questing, raids require infinitely more skill and are far less of a chore.
>>743346484Yea and getting up out of bed takes more "skill" than just lying there, but that doesn't mean it takes any actual amount of it in the grand scheme of things. People don't play MMOs because they take skill. Raids never took skill, they took coordination. They especially don't take skill now with addons. If you wanted to play a game solely for the skill it takes you would be playing almost literally anything else. You're just a mazed retard that has convinced himself that he's good at something so you can act elitist about it, likely because you're not good at anything actually meaningful.
>>743346751That's a whole lot of projection and bullshit. Unskilled players can't even complete the top end content with or without addons. Unskilled players can complete leveling with zero issue.
>>743346876It's not projection at all, it's absolutely true. Your argument would have a hint of truth to it if this were 20 years ago, but it's not. Weakauras and addons literally play the game for you. You don't need to learn a rotation, you don't need to learn mechanics or intricacies.>b-b-b-but low IQ retards can't do itYea and they can't tie their own shoes. That doesn't mean tying your shoe takes skill.
>>743345753the mistake theme park style games made was keeping leveling longer than a complex tutorial while making it also an irrelevant choreif nothing you do or can do while leveling matters in the end it feels like a giant waste of time. sandboxy games are at least good about having important economic interactions at low level so you feel like you aren't always wasting your time.>>743346876some people are mentally retarded too but that doesn't make 2 digit multiplication difficult. i raided wow for like 8 years around the top level and barely saw any content that wasn't a retard/gear/organization/communication check and raiding in EQ was absolutely brain dead.
>>743347157Weakauras isn't even available right now, and a bad player STILL can't beat top end content with weakauras and DBM.
>>743347186It wasn't a mistake, it was an intentional decision because certain types of players get addicted to those chores. Now those types of players get addicted to gacha instead.
>>743347206>intentionally missing the pointYou're really proving the point here that you're not actually skilled and more focused on the idea that you're better than other people. And you're not. If you were you'd be playing a game that actually took, and rewarded, skill. Of which many competitive games exist that you could make a good living off of doing so. Instead you're playing a static PvE game designed for 70 IQs and trying to taunt people because yours luckily happens to be 71.
>>743325254cooking crafting building, if you cant literally build your guild castle then it's a flop
>>743347285There is no point being missed. One thing takes skill, the other does not and is the most tedious bullshit I've ever played in my life. It doesn't matter if it's not Starcraft Brood War levels of skill, it matters that it takes some instead of none.
>>743347385>if I just say the same thing I said last time maybe I will be rightConcession accepted
>>743346751>>743347157You have never done mythic. Or even heroic. Everything you're saying is fundamentally wrong.
>>743347464Can a bad player raid successfully? No. Can a bad player complete leveling? Yes. Is there a meaningful difference between a bad player's leveling and a good player's leveling? No, only the time needed to complete it. That is no different than a speedrunner optimizing a baby game, ie totally worthless.
>>743347206there were unironically hundreds of thousands of players too shit to hit max level in wownot kidding btw, no matter how low the bar, some won't pass.>>743347253it was a mistake because it's objectively worse than alternative designs
>>743347474Prove me wrong
>>743347546>there were unironically hundreds of thousands of players too shit to hit max level in wowNot for skill reasons.
>>743347543Nobody is arguing that leveling takes skill. Only you are hyper focused on this minutia because you have no other leg to stand on logically. Of course raiding takes more skill than leveling, I've said this. That doesn't mean raiding takes any noteworthy amount of skill. You're hyperfocused and narrowing in on this argument I'm not even making because you can't address the actual argument, which is that if you cared about it taking skill you wouldn't be playing a game where addons take all of that out and instead would be playing actually competitive games where skill is rewarded.
>>743347546>it was a mistake because it's objectively worse than alternative designsNot from Blizzard's perspective. It's horrible from a playability standpoint but not from a moneymaking one.
>>743347609i knew one personally so you're wrongmight have even been millions, you just don't understand how bad someone can be at a video game because you've never seen it.
>>743347678Your inability to understand what's being said isn't focusing on minutae, that's you being retarded.
>>743325254Random players in the world who decide to help each other for whatever reason, typically some sort of challenge set by the devs
>>743347894Ironic. I see your ego is still getting in the way of addressing the bulk of my post. It is no surprise you are the type to be on a high horse about your "skill" in a game that plays itself for you. I humbly accept your concession, bitch.
>>743347690was it really though? where are all the new retail wow players?leveling is objectively awful if you can't accomplish anything that feels meaningful. it's like a forced 60+ hour tutorial. even worse is that the endgame is totally different than the experience up to that point so people who would otherwise enjoy it often get filtered on the way.say what you will about gacha games but they are honest because the gameplay doesn't fundamentally change
>>743348175>where are all the new retail wow players?Playing gacha. I'm talking about what was the better move 20 years ago, or almost 30 for Everquest. What was optimal for moneymaking and player retention then isn't the same as it is now.
>>743348015It's not ego, it's recognizing that someone who prefers digital chores to something that takes skill is literal cattle. Doesn't matter whether that skill is first or foremost, it matters whether it's there at all.
>>743348252you're wrong, better is better.the only reason it worked then was because of lack of competition, mediocrity was good enough, now it isn't. it was always fundamentally flawed.
>>743348298desu raids are much more chorelike because you do them every lockout.probably a bad analogy.
>>743348298If your sole concern is something taking skill, I'll ask one final question. Do you do M+ and raids without addons? If your answer is anything but "yes" then skill obviously isn't your concern.
>>743348624Content is what determines if something is a chore, not frequency.
>>743348665False equivalence because you still need skill to execute what they're telling you and a lot of addons have nothing to do with skill, but I've skipped out on DBM with no real issue many times, never had it after M+ became a thing, and have never used Weakauras or anything similar.
>>743348680chore actually implies repetition, it's core to the usage of the wordjust saying
>>743348765>ask yes or no question>can't answer yes or no>instead babble trying to dodge the pointAs expected. I accept your concession yet again. I won't be here next time you reply but I know you will try to have the last word anyways.
>>743348930>a hard or unpleasant task
>>743348974You asked a useless question that doesn't have a yes/no answer that indicates anything by itself.
>>743348680BIG retard
Community is the main part and I'm part of a pretty good one I would say. Most of the time there's no shortage of players to run content with and we'll regularly host events in-game and out of game.
>>743325254Levels badRemove the leveling and have a better reason for playing
if they allowed you to have sex it would be good i think
>>743325254>What makes an MMO feel like a world instead of a game?It needs to feel like its moving and living around you regardless of what you do.
>>743338041>PvP MMOs like Albion or Eve have garbage PvE for that reasonEh they're not that bad, but their main purpose is to just exist to give players a reason to farm money. Compared to other MMOs where you basically never have a reason to farm to make money. You generally just make money doing other shit anyway.
>>743325254I am sick of these fucking retarded hypocrites that are MMO players. They always pine on about the open world and travel and shit like that, yet every single game they play, they always bitch about shit until the game becomes utterly pointless where the world is useless and meaningless, as they ask for every single mechanic to be streamlined or simplified, for instant travel everywhere, for diverse utility and power levels to be flattened and homogenized, for one single puny hub to have literally everything you could possibly ever want. For everything you want to do to be a perfectly accessible and sterile UI pane at all times. For the endgame to be fucking gay raiding and absolutely nothing else. And any time the world or anything gets updated, people just cry because it'll "cost me a raid tier".
>>743325254A good story, cutscenes, likeable NPCs, good soundtrack, etc. In other words FFXIV Shadowbringers is peak MMORPG.
>>743353959I hear ESO has a really good economy.
>>743356893None of those have anything to do with MMOs
>>743356839Those are two or more separate groups of people. The fact is that MMOs have like 4 unrelated games within them, but one of them has primacy over all the others by default.
can someone give me a qrd on OP? There are too many schizos on 4chan to keep track of
>>743348930>>743349734>EZL definitionsIs having sex often a chore? That's not what chore means, lil bro.>>743327373Stop being racist.
>>743359610Ian the Nutriments Nigger is a severely autistic man who thinks people are all the same genetically and all prefer the same things so he wants a RMT MMO where you can bot in it.
>>743359679I see, thanks. I found a copypasta about him on the archive. But why is he called "nutriments schizo"? Is it because he posts on /fit/ where people talk about nutrition?
>>743359732Yes.
>>743359737lmao I wonder how I missed this cwc-tier schizo. Maybe because his threads are terrible and schizophrenic and he never seems to post outside them unlike butts schizo, bg3 schizo, earthbound schizo, sh2 eileen shaving schizo etc.
>>743325254Internal consistency. World, events, economy, etc. not revolving around players. Players are just mooks, mercs, and cheap labor force for NPC/AI guilds, with some freedoms gained through hard work and sterling effort. Feel like an alien, so that any and every player feels closer and more like kin, unlike NPCs and AIs.
>>743332072>Social elementThis is the largest part, and why modern MMOs are dead. Nobody plays MMOs for socialization anymore, they get that elsewhere. So all MMOs nowadays feel like a solo experience.This is not the largest part. This is the one and only part. Its the core of the issue.
>>743359672Being racist is the best and safest way to protect yourself from scammers and other criminals. You lose NOTHING by being racist and gain a valuable measure of safety.
New World had the best world/combat/gathering. Sadly everything else went to shit due to indian Amazon devs
>>743344474Some NEET retard used AI to make him a portraiture of a Venn Diagram comparing WoW to ESO and thinks ESO has skill-based aiming and action combat
>>743362546I didn't like gathering routes (that you had to look up on YT). Resources should be bunched.
>>743361105But is that because of players preference or enforced by the devs? I'm not an mmo player but curious about this topic. In other genres like FPS, devs nudge players away from freely communicating with either hiding the chat by default, reduce communication to fixed in-game gestures/markers or by outright removing communication all together.
