>Want to get back into fighting games>remember I hate spending hours of my life memorizing stupid combo button combinations and that time could be better spent actually enjoying life
>>743363570this is why smash bros is the best fighting game
>>743363570just play gief
>>743363604erm, actually, smash is like, not a real fighting game. it's a party game for children so we're removing it from evo.
>>743363570Play platform fighters. If traditional fighting games are progressive music, platform fighters are jazz. Sure you need technical skill, but you can also just wing it with good fundamentals.
>>743363757I wish there were platform fighters besides literally just one (all the others are dead).
>>743363757nothing a fighting game>but it's in evoevo isn't a fighting game tournament anymore, it's a convention
>>743363681Anyone who says this unironically is a retard to the point it pisses me off. It would be like saying Overwatch isn't an FPS because it is different from DOOM
>>743363570The combos aren't even the hardest part anymore. Most modern fighting games don't have 1 frame link anymore
>>743363869Overwatch... is not an FPS
>>743363869Yakuza is not a fighting game even though it has more complex fighting mechanics than Trash bros.
>>743363570OP complains about this but probably has half the item/enemy placement in dark souls 1,2, and 3 memorizied
From a gameplay perspective what are the point of combos? I mean think about it. Once the combo starts the other player can't do anything, it just becomes a game of them waiting for it to end. It would be like if in FPS you had to play a game of solitaire after getting a headshot.
>>743364006To play dark souls you don't have to memorize item placements. You learn them by simply playing the game. However you don't learn combos by playing, you learn combos through rote memorization.
>>743363904The hardest part is, ironically, the fact that every modern fighting game is designed so that a drooling retard can reach SF6's master rank or its equivalent. They've become harder to play by becoming easier, because it's exhausting dealing with shit like>EZ-bake combos with our without inputs>20 second-long combo sequences>drive meter, SPG, etc.>neutral skips>built-in combo breakers like burst and break>homing launchers and full-screen normals that do your taxes while blowing youall of which are designed so, "something is always happening," for the sake of a generation of players and spectators whose brains have been destroyed by watching pornography while playing Subway Surfers.Older fighting games are also in a difficult position, albeit for different reasons.
>>743363604until you get a luigi or rob killing you in one combo
>>743363904what other FG has this famous muh 1f link combos aside SF4?
>>743364057Melee solved this, but it isn't a fighting game
>>743363604Nah because Ultimate sucks and the netcode is horrid. And in Melee you actually have to practice, probably even harder than real fighting games since combos aren't just memorizing links and people can escape them with directional influence.
>>743364431KoFXIII and 3S, but not nearly as much as USF4
>>743363570You are the reason we are plagued with modern controls
>>743363904The hardest part is not wanting to tear your own face off because you watched a good game series (sf, tekken, guilty gear, etc) get bogged down by gay as fuck universal mechanics (universal overheads, 1 button specials, auto combos, heat, drive rush, etc). It truly is a shame, all of these modern fighting games feel like shit to play. The universal mechanics make every character feel nearly identical since they are the most dominant factors in the game. And the removal of skill barriers means every combo feels exactly the same. You don't get cool shit anymore like reading an opponent's option select and then punishing with a sick ass combo that you extend with 1f links like the E. Ryu axe kick combo. That was when fighting games were cool.
>>743363570You don't have to do anything. You can hop on a current fighter like SF6 and get a ranked match at your skill level at literally any hour of the dayThis is like saying you want to get into counter strike but you hate spending hours memorising smoke rollouts and spray patterns. Just don't
>>743363604When you hit a certain level in Smash Bros you also need to practice difficult combos and tech which will make your poor fingers sad
>>743364864>spray patternsCounter Strike is dogshit because of this
>>743364057They are fun. And they also let you punish your opponents mistakes harder than just a single hit.And different combos are possible from different situations and different resource expenditures.And you also can pick different combo routes depending on if you want more damage or to reposition your opponent.If a fighting game was just exchange of single hits it would be boring to play.Combos only really become an issue when they just last way to long and can be preformed from hard to block moves which is something many games can be guilty of. Its why MK1 is hated by many fans and why most American fighting games also flop as they just ape MVC2 and focus way to much on long ass combos which itself was never meant to be a real competitive fighting game
>>743364864is pogchamp ok?
>>743364057some games like melty blood have defense minigames while you’re being comboed.
>>743364942I never understood the hand pain thing. I started playing Melee in 2015 seriously with my friend after we watched the doc together. Went to locals, but never was good enough or felt like I wanted to go pro or anything. I played religiously basically every day and especially after Slippi came out. I'm 6'2 and can 1 handed grip a basketball, but never really suffered any hand pain and I was a Falco main who switched to Fox after a few years. I still hop on Slippi every now and then for some fun drunken matches and my tech skill is a bit rusty since I don't play as much, but I can still pull off mostly everything after a few minutes of playing and still never feel hand pain. I play Claw though since it just feels nicer using the side of my finger to jump/shorthop rather than trying to fiddle with my thumb. I think the people who experience hand pain must be subconsciously death gripping the controller with their hands while they play. I always played with the controller extremely loose in both hands.
>>743364942Ultimate doesn't have this issue
>>743363570personally this is why I prefer guilty gear games, cause of roman cancelling and the gatling system you can basically just do whatever and freestyle combos. They're not optimal but they work. I hate how locked down combos are in SF. makes for very boring gameplay imo
>>743364864I had a friend who literally has not played a Fighting game in 20 years and never ever online.And he managed to figure out SF6 in a week and even get to Platinum rank in Ranked SF6.Although yea ranks are like bronze and silver from SFV (legit had people worse than silver in SF5 in SF6s diamond rank) ad the actual competitive game starts at master.
>>743365212The ultimate competitive scene is on fire at the moment because people have started doing a 1HKO technique with Kazuya that was previously thought only possible with TAS
>>743365212Ultimate has 12 frames of input delay + garbage netcode. Nintendo doesn't care about it, so why should I?
>>743365278Yeah the names are the same as SFV but bronze to master in SF6 is effectively the tutorial that you pass once you have a decent understanding of how the game works. The points there are designed to push you upwards.Master Rate is where the actual challenge start and IMO the best ranked system a fighter has ever had
>>743363570the combos arent particularly hard to learn. its learning option selects, various safe jumps, oki options, punishes, etc for entire cast. but sf6 isnt worth learning at all. trash game for retards.
>>743364523and Melee has shit physics but no one wants to talk about it
Ranked play in fighting games always felt so stupid to me. Not only was the netcode always shit until like 6-7 years ago, but ranked in general just promoted dogshit habits and bad gameplay. You had people using cheap gimmicky tactics to get easy rank. You had people plug pulling to avoid losing rank. You had people lag switching to win. Never once has a ranked match felt like an actual tournament match until you get to the rank where the pro tournament players were. Everything below that rank feels like an entirely different game because it's all just omega cheese to win as fast as possible in a FT1, because they know if you played them in a Bo3 or Bo5 you'd download their scum tactics and win.
>>743365478>why yes carrying momentum is actually shit, captain falcon running at 90mph and then slowing to 2mph the second he leaves the ground is much more funHow about you kys yourself
>>743363869>it's a fighting game because you fight!You're the retard bro. Any definition of fighting game that includes smash also includes thousands of other games that nobody sane would ever call a fighting game.
>>743363570I suck ass at fighting games, but why do they always claim you HAVE to first lab to learn combo's? doesn't exactly seem high priority for your fundamentals.
>>743365581based
>>743363757dont you have to know way more shit in this type of game since you need to understand all the options for each kind of tech?
>>743365325>Ultimate has 12 frames of input delaythis shit made me so angry that I will never buy another smash bros gamefuck nintendo
>>743365294Source? It's not the usual EWGF shenanigans, is it?
>>743366083I keep my Switch by the toilet since I don't use it to do anything other than kill time these days, and sometimes I'll boot up Ultimate and immediately shut it off as soon as I feel the input delay on the character select screen. It's so bad that I don't even want to get in-game.
>>743366073It's a different kind of knowledge. In traditional fighting games, hitbox and frame data interactions are much more structured because movement itself is more structured, meaning there's a finite amount of discrete interactions that you need to understand because players specifically practice for them. These can be anything from knowing what beats what, to what's plus or minus on black, to specific frame data setups.Platform fighters are more about intuitive ball knowledge, although you also need structured knowledge to an extent. Like knowing how to DI >>743364483 a throw correctly for you character's attributes (weight, gravity) can and will save your life, but you don't need to know every DI / frame data interaction for every MU, although it is beneficial. In the case of Rivals 2 specifically, each character has a lot of mechanics, so you do need a basic idea of what those mechanics do or you might be caught off-guard, but that's not a lot.
>>743366107https://x.com/LiquidHbox/status/2073105765947105361?s=20
>>743366520>Kazuya/Steve dual mainactually a disgusting videogame
>>743364864we are no longer pogging...
>>743366520>What choice will the Ultimate community make?Well, let's look at the Smash community's track record>took 18 years to ban ICs wobbling>needed to implement a ledge grab limit to stop players from camping>never banned Meta Knight>never banned Bayonetta>never banned Steve>never banned Steve from mining materials offstage>never banned Steve from abusing a bug that allows him to tank a hit for free, you just have to say sorry to your opponent if it happens>never moderated B0XX / leverless controllers>still can't figure out the concept of consensual sexual relationships between two legal adultsThey're fucked, even if this can only be performed on B0XX
>>743364057>the other player can't do anythingthis is pretty much only true in street fighter
>>743364057You go into different combos depending on what resources you have available, what the screen positioning is, if you want to prioritise damage, corner carry, sideswaps, better oki etc etc. For most fighters there is lots of decision making during combos
>>743367428Yet sadly the only decision for the defending player is "do I have burst or nah" or the old "i need to remember to hold down a button in case they drop it so I can tech recovery."Such amazing "decision" making.This is why Melee is still goated to me. Directional Influence was like a breath of fresh air after playing years of SF, Tekken, and Arcsys games. I will never understand the unbridled autism of people who go "b-b-b-b-but not a fighting game, muh nintenduuuuu" as if it matters. The game is fun as fuck and way harder, but much more rewarding, than any other fighting game I've played.
>>743367814Actually what the defending player should be doing is figuring out what situation they're gonna be in once the combo is over, try to predict what oki the opponent is going to run on your wakeup and how to defend against it, and whether to use an invincible reversal if you've got it.There are games that have more to do while getting combo'd though. Soul Calibur has directional influence to twist out of fake combos and Killer Intinct has combo breakers if you can predict the combo fillers your opponents are using.
>>743363604>Characters are fucking tiny and nothing is cool for real since half the cast are scrimblo blimblos and gay anime characters
>>743363570yes you need HOURS for medium DRC heavy heavy special, thats AT LEAST 5 inputs in a row!!!!!!!!!
>>743364057combos arent guaranteed damage and depending on the game, being hit results in a whole tree of decisions that need to be made by each player.does the attacker want to:>maximize damage>maximize carry>trade damage & carry for safety (either easier execution or burst safe)>maximize resources (eg enter the next round with full meter)>trade guaranteed damage for a mixup (resets or oki options) >try to set up a check-mate scenariothe defender has to consider their combo breaker options, the relative skill of the other player, screen position, round position and game position. they also have to make a general read of the greediness of the attacker and the risk that'll they'll go for some kind of gimmick.combos also serve somewhat the same purpose as a down in football, the game changes state and both players get to consider the actions that lead to the hit and their course of action now that neutral has ended.tbqh the main issue with combos is that modern games make them too easy and streamline the decision making too much. going for 'the hard combo' in old games was not a trivial decision and you were putting a lot at risk by trying to be sakonoko instead of doing a safer bnb. not to mention in non-pro play, drops happen all the time
>feel like getting in a few games before I have to go do some shit>queue up>one-and-done>guy rage quits>guy rage quits>guy rage quits the second the match startsOkay
>>743364057>play a game of solitaireMore like play the piano, or at least that's how it should be. This is why combos are worthless now; they're too easy to execute. In SF4 your level of execution defined your playstyle.
>>743370237Problem is given enough time with a game, everyone can become a combo demon with 1f stuff. Like Melee, been around for 25 years, most people who have played for at least a decade can probably do every technical skill that requires frame perfect accuracy at least 99/100 times. So if USF4 was still being played, every person still playing would be wiping their ass with 1f links.Still better than the current system though.
I just wish all the gimmicks used meter, and you only get 1 meter. We memed on FADC back in the day for being "le free reversal", but at least it took your meter and if Ultras never existed, that would be your only source of meter. Now we have meter for exes/supers, meters for ultras, meters for combo breaks, meters for this, meters for that, meters for everything which feels like the characters are too strong with all the universal mechanics and how they dominate the game. Why can't drive rush take super meter? Why can't burst in Arcsys games take 50% or 100% meter? Why does every little defensive/offensive gimmick have it's own special bar you have to monitor and get way more access to? You don't have to give up anything to use it. FADC made you give something up and sometimes you got literally nothing for it other than being "safe" (like wake up dp, fadc back, and they block the dp). You just spent 50% of your super meter to wake up safely. That's how a gimmick mechanic should work imo.
>>743364431>>743363904Rashid, Guile, Ken and Ed have 1-frame optimals in SF6
>>743363570It's fun. The process of learning is fun. Fighting someone that knows is fun. The time spent doing what you practiced is fun. You can play these games doing minimal homework anyways, you don't need to know everything at once and you don't need to be the next daigo. You can just boot up with honda or ryu and do whatever. If ADHD games can do it so can you.
>>743370649We need to go back to needing to actually build fucking meter. Starting every round with full drive gauge is the issue.
Is it possible to avoid having my practice room hours go up in my profile? Does going offline do anything?
Lol Daigo is so jealous to MenaDR. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0bxkAqSH5I
I reinstalled the game for Robo Ky but he's... pretty boring? 214H makes his pressure really braindead in a boring way... The fireball and copter are his only somewhat interesting moves but that's not enough to make him fun...As someone who played characters without reversals (Venom, Zato and prerework HC) I don't really get why he doesn't have a reversal.I expected him to be more gimmicky and unorthodox...i feel super scammed by the fact that he doesnt actually have a fuckhuge sword that he carries using a 3rd arm... what a bait
>>743373150Yeah he feels like a SFV character. All he does is strike throw.
>>743363604trash bros is not a fighting game
>>743363570Practicing combos is such a small portion of the time you'll spend in any fighting game you're taking half seriously that it's just clearly shitter cope. If you can't learn combos you can't learn neutral, you'd be shit at the game even if it had no combos.
>>743363570Tekken players are now switching to Marvel Tokon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8rVtZAjg38
>>743366520Kazuya could always do things like this though? It just doesn't really mean much since he wouldn't be able to get started on anything 90% of the time, because his disadvantage is dogshit. And because he can't do stuff like this all the time on most characters.
>>743374238Tokon has nothing to do with Tekken...
>>743374208you're proving OPs point faggot
>>743363869>em overwatch is an FPS game>just ignore that over half the cast plays in third person and uses melee weapons plz
>>743374238Why should they? Arcsys fighter usually doesn't scratch the same itch as tekken.
>>743374703both are kusoge
>>743374481>>743374703Tekken is so dead so switching to new big game Tokon. Gonna love smurfing Tekken players with Loki setups.
>>743363570>have to remember optimal combos>have to remember optimal punishes>have to known your own characters frame data>have to know the frame data of 29 other charactersed is unplayable if you cant consistently do the dream combo in live matches and he's also considered one of the EASIER characters to play, fuck that garbage.
>>743363570>learning combos firstThat’s why you’re shit at fighting games
>>743373209>Yeah he feels like a SFV character. All he does is strike throw.what? he literally has meterless high low off of meaty 2H
>>743375008Eh fundies are easy. Anyone can walk back and forth 40 times and occasionally crmk > fireball. Thing is, games take way longer and are way more disadvantageous to you if all you do is play footsies and can't punish appropriately. At some point, you gotta lab out combos and it usually happens pretty damn fast into starting a new game.
>>743375613all you need is a simple combo that ends in a soft/hard knockdown, practicing anything more so early is fucking retarded.
>>743375613This >>743376178Learn the tropes first or you will ruin your enjoyment.
>>743363604not a fighting game
>>743367814I will suck off DI any day of the week. I wonder what a 2D fighting game with an equivalent system would look like. I feel like you'd need to start with movement, so you can actually disengage if you think a combo isn't going to be true or is going to be dropped due to perfect DI. For some reason. DBFZ is coming to mind.
>>743364057their fun
>>743363757>but you can also just wing it with good fundamentalsso just like any fighting game, got it
Combos are on the shorter end of the grind really. It's more practicing situational awareness (knowledge checks and adaptation to them, fundamentals, player strategy experience, in-person competing experience if you're doing that, etc) that takes up more time.
>>743364057bushido blade is the game you likego play it and fuck off
>>743366520>it's just a jab loop, how bad could it be>takes opponent from 87% to 135%, and only has to cash out because he ran out of stagewow this is aids>plays kazuya>plays stevelmao what a cunt
>>743378880Combo Breakers from KI are the closest in practice
>>743379001>play a few sets with someone>they add me on steam>compliment my adaptation>mfw i only adapted once and then lost like 6 games in a row when they adapted back in an incredibly basic wayit feels like the fighting game equivalent of visualizing the apple in your head. i know there's an answer, but i can't fucking see it. i envy people who have "it".
