Guns should be more common in medieval fantasy inspired games without armchair historians or metafags ruining their inclusion for everyone else.
>>743410816Guns are weak as fuck in fantasy settings.
>>743410816Its not an issue for me if they have some thematic reason to exist in the setting. Like Bloodborne plain has guns in the Victorian inspired setting and even ancient civilizations had them but they also emphasize that they're just backups and do little damage if at all to beasts.
>>743410816Play Tactics Ogre
it's all because of dnd's FR, the creator decided that he didn't like guns in the setting and it being the most popular and copied setting settled the idea tha guns shouldn't exist in medieval inspired settings even tho they are older than full plate armor.
>>743410816>shoot your "gun" (actually just a miniature cannon)>5% chance it blows up in your hand>-50% to accuracy>5 turns to reload it>damage isn't even that great
Pillars of Eternity
>>743410919If crossbows can be used effectively in the setting, than guns should too.
>>743412445Inferior Japanese crap.
>>743410816Anon, the powder itself is fucking magic shit, it's aliens or time travelers who gave a recipe to humans
>>743412363PoE isn't medieval though
>>743410816Sekiro did it perfectly. Not too overt but still fairly dangerous.
>>743412548it's piss and coal
>>743412623Lol, good luck, try to recreate it IRL, it was a piss of soldiers took in on Sunday
>>743410816>see thumbnail>medieval soldiers taking a defensive position in between two parked m113s>click thumbnail>ohIm not sure what i was thinking.
>>743410816Guns are fucking gay. Swords and axes are fucking cool. Faggot.
>>743412708What? Are you French
>>743412790guns are much cooler than lamelee weapons
>>743412543>guns>japaneseWhat the fuck you on about?Whatever homemade shit they used they ''borrowed'' the designs from westerners and chinks.Those fuckers never even figured out how to use shields properly in combat.
>>743413629
>>743413856Cuteunless it's every other engagement other than a siege that we are talking about in which case you might as well return to that poor farmer his house door that you stole back to him because that thing is neither something the average japanese conscript would be able to use in hand to hand combat let alone lift.
>>743414586
>>743410816flintlock firearms would nicely fill in the heavy ranged niche which is usually absentlight cannon artillery would be a fun addition to larger battles especially if it could change hands mid-fight
>>743412262Yeah thats why they quickly became the most dominant thing in the battlefield, because they didnt work
>>743415106>quicklyIt took centuries of innovations for them to dominate the battlefield.
It's all a matter of public perception, people think guns are super-deadly death rays, if they saw musket balls bouncing off armor they would think it's weird.
>>743415106that fags exaggerating but so are you, early firearms weren't the most dominant thing in the battlefieldthey were worse than longbows and crossbows but required less training and less strength than eithercrossbows were used until the 1500s, firearms replaced them first since crossbows were already the lower skilled peasant weaponlongbows were used until the 1600s because the rate of fire was higher, accuracy was better, range was almost the same and even then they were phased out due to cost not efficacy which was still higher than firearmsguns had just become so cheap that training professional longbowmen from youth made no economical sense because for the same amount of money you give ten peasants shitty flintlocks they learn how to use in a week and more importantly these peasants if injured can be replaced by any other peasant in another week
>>743415283People don't realize how quickly round musket balls before rifling was invented lost their kinetic energy. Like there's a reason why airsoft balls don't hurt that much unless you're extremely close.
>>743415446>crossbows were already the lower skilled peasant weaponTell that to the genovese mercenaries, crossbows were very expensive weapons used by elite troops, not a peasant weapon.
There have been more guns in fantasy than there have been slings despite being used alot more until the 16th century in Europe, and even much much later in other tribal groups.
>>743415653The Genovese Crossbowmen are elite not because they used crossbows but because they used them in actual formations and know how to maneuver with them effectively. Crossbows WERE a common weapon across Europe, it was even used to hunt game.
>>743415653this is like arguing that pikes and halberds were extremely skilled, expensive weapons used by elite troops because swiss mercenaries who specialised in using them were world renowned
>>743415780Also the Genovese crossbowmen had assistants reloading crossbows for them so they can keep up the volume of fire.
>>743415780>>743415812Come one, hunting version of a weapon is not comparable to the one used for war, anyone with the most basic knowledge about this will know that, heavy crossbows + pavises were an expensive set, not for peasants, if they were poor weapons where the only advantage was in their ease of use they wouldn't be used by these troops.
>>743415829and that was worth having because of how strong and effective the weapon was
>>743415909you are deeply underestimating the strength of "light" hunting crossbowsthey are not like modern hunting crossbows, they required atleast a foot assisted draw if not a full-on foot draw and could punch through a boar skull
>>743412124No firearms was a small price to pay for the level of detail that Ed gave us.
>>743416114sure, all crossbows are amazing, but compared to an arbalest with a whole ass apparatus just to crank it, it's on a different tier, it will punch through actual armor that stops longbows
>>743410816Unfortunately 90% of fantasy settings are made by historylets
>>743415106>quickly It took 300 years for that to happen. By 1300 guns were around but not the backbone of the military until 1600.They were preferred because they were ultra cheap and easy to use. Crossbows were also easy to use but not cheap and had not a high effective range compared to bows.Bows were incredibly difficult to use and very expensive in their ammo (making arrows is crazy expensive) but the most effective.It wasn't until the Swiss btfo'd Burgundy did Europe realize how powerful a gun based army can be. Guns proved that quantity in missile units is a quality of its own. Doesn't matter if the missile weapon is kinda shit. You can quickly equip an entire peasant army so that for every enemy archer you have like 100 gunners. Training an archer took 10 years. Training a gunner took 2 weeks.Guns won out for economic and logistical reasons, not because of effectiveness. Guns being so cheap is what convinced everyone to keep pumping money into improving the design. But them being initially shit is why the Chinese, even though they invented them, stopped bothering with them.
>>743416117Incredibly crucial lore points, how were people even able to immerse themselves into fantasy settings before the breastmilk taste chart was introduced
>>743415707Most people don't even know slings ever existed. Bring them up in conversation and you'll get>huh? you mean a slingshot?
Fantasy is about small groups of individuals going on adventures with swords, not watching two lines of guys stand and blast each other to smithereens.
>>743415707at least early dnd and BG did them some justice, sling + shield is a good combination
>>743412262Annon will refuse to roll the gun die, but will effortlessly roll the cocksucking die.
It wasn't until the Battle of Cerignola, 1503, did small firearms actually won a battle decisively and wasn't just some auxiliary unit that got attached to a main body. It BTFO both French cavalry and Swiss pikemen.
>>743416620Imho a proper rpg needs to have all 6 historic types of ranged weapons:1. Slings2. Bows3. Crossbow4. Guns5. Thrown weapons (javelin, but also "that rock at your feet")Every ranged weapon in the late middle ages was in use at the same time. He'll if you make it an action game you could even make them mechanically different. But in a tabletop setting:1. Slings are cheap to get, cheap ammo, medium damage, incredibly high dex requirement. Medium DPS.2. Bows are cheap in buying, arrows are expensive. Medium to high dex required. Insanely high strength requirement. Fastest rate of firing to very high damage in return making it the highest dps ranged option.3. Crossbow are expensive with medium cost ammo and requiring frequent repair. Low dex required, strength requirement can be lowered by using reload mechanisms which increase reload speed. Low DPS.4. Guns are cheap, bullets are cheap, gunpowder is medium in cost. Almost zero stat requirements. Hits are almost entirely RNG. Lowest reload speed. Low DPS.5. You can chuck anything. Effective range, damage and accuracy depends on object's flight properties and your stats. Low range, low dps but rocks are always there meaning you have unlimited ammo. Always a good opener when you don't have another ranged weapon.
>>7434169965* types I mean.6 because mentally I separated "chucking rocks" and "javelin" but then combined both to thrown weapons.
>>743412124Forgotten Realms have magic glowniggers making sure science doesn't progress that much. As I recall it was the Harpers.
>>743417257I recall Ed saying it was the God of the gnomes that prevented gunpowder from becoming commonplace as it is irl
>medieval game has guns>the controls are fucking garbage because the devs have zero experience with fps games
>>743416996you could toss potions with slings or infuse bullets with magic spells
>>743416996My favorite ranged weapon is remote guided bomber drone (hawk familiar dropping stuff on enemies while I'm a mile away)
>>743416406>place with the largest populace surplus, that also invented firearms discards them as a military technology, regards them as a novelty or expensive form of siege technologyCan you imagine how much more of the world would be speaking mandarin if they had taken it seriously
>>743417257>>743417307Doesn't matter now since the current Player's Hand Book has stats for guns on the same page as the rest of the weapons.But despite having the highest damage of all ranged weapons, they're shit.
>>743412770I mean bohemian battle wagons are basically medieval APC, I don't know why you are disappointed.
>>743412445where can i buy one of these
>>743418453Chinks lack the faustian spirit. They will never be suzerains of the earth.
fantasy is 16th century without guns in the main kingdom, 10th century in generic barbarian land that was always the case thanks to how creatively bankrupt the genre is
>>7434201532014 Gun monk was great what are you on about
Every fantasy setting should include cowboys with at least cap and ball revolvers
>>743410816The Pope and his cronies have been real quiet since this one dropped
>>743412445>average gekokujo enjoyer
>>743423641Nothing beats seeing that wall of blue text. EAT MY LEAD YOU SHOGUNATE FUCKING SHITS
>>743422360They do on occasion when the Mandate of Heaven permits but otherwise yeah the vast majority tend to plod along without much thought. 72 Cannon Chang was one of those madlads to break the cycle.
>>743423710For me it's the Ikki rifle monks and the Tsushima sharpshooters that you can recruit from their neutral forts. They cost a fraction of your average hatamoto but still have the ability to brain cunts from across the field. They tend to fall apart once their 12 shots are spent but otherwise they're great.
>>743415780>Genonese operating in three man fireteams consisting of one loader, one shooter and a shield bearer with a spear to keep the boys safeYou could make a half decent friendsloppa based on this premise desu.
>>743410816But if you have a fantasy setting why would anyone use swords or any other medieval type weapons when guns can overpower anyone using them?Tiny Tina's adventure in Wonderland does guns in a fantasy setting well though.
>>743412363PoE is Renaissance era
>>743425149We need more Renaissance era games
>>743425149so is nu-dnd
>>743425103>But if you have a fantasy setting why would anyone use swords or any other medieval type weapons when guns can overpower anyone using them?The same reason firearms and swords/spears/pikes overlapped for centuries in reality?
>>743425103People used swords for half a millennium after guns were invented, and still used knives after that
>>743425217>>743425251Because early guns were single shot and had to manually be reloaded after every shot with gunpowder which took like over a minute per shot fired.
>>743425631And?You don't seem to understand that there being any kind of explanation at all defeats your argumentEven an argument that wouldn't apply to a given fantasy world in the first place would still be more justification than the swords themselves already usually don't have
>>743418453Their problem was their surplus population. The Black Death was ironically the best thing that could have happened to Europe, since it enabled the social mobility that lead to innovation being pushed and accepted. Obviously it didn’t happen overnight, but so many deaths meant the surviving peasants were far more valuable and things snowballed from there.Meanwhile in China, a few million peasants dying over the course of a decade meant pretty much fuck all, so there was no need to ever change the status quo.
>>743417349Sauce ?
>>743426728Anon, the reason people continued to use swords and other mele weapons is because of how slow guns were.Bow and arrows were still a better alternative to early guns like muskets. In the time it takes to fire a musket and reload it to fire another shot you could fire a ton of arrows. With swords and other mele weapons you could just run at the person with the musket before he could reload.Guns in the middle ages unless modern guns would be useless for the most part.
>>743411658>has guns in the Victorian inspired settingYou now gun were pretty commonplace in victorian england.
>>743429536Guns shoot straight through armor. But I guess the real reason they developed was because canons were just that awesome, with guns being a by-product of that technology.
>>743416475Everyone knows the story of David and Goliath.
>>743410816Pillars of Eternity did it pretty well.
>>743429536>Guns in the middle ages unless modern guns would be useless for the most part.Yeah, that's why we stopped using them and firearms development ended in the middle ages.
Gun in a military context means this.
>>743425631Which is why gunners were arranged in ranks.
>>743430265Anon, they kept being used because they improved over time. More people started using them and they became the more efficient weapon.When you have a bunch of guys using musket and a bunch of guys using bow and arrows, who would with the fight?Guys with muskets can fire one shot then have to spend a minute reloading.Guys with bow and arrows can just keep firing arrows at them.
>>743430345BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP
>>743430476bows and personal weapons didn't compete for the same role in the battlefield, bow formations had to compete against cannon artillery and obviously they lost, guns are direct fire weapons, they competed with crossbows
>>743430476The guys that are better at hand to hand combat.
>>743430524no, that gun goes pom pom
i wish theyd buff handcannoneers in aoe2
>>743430476can the musket guys get pavises? if yes, then they would win easily
>>743431034*fires explosive arrow**fire fire arrow*
>>743431372Outside of video games, what extent were explosive arrows even used?
>>743431623Not sure if they were even used in medieval times.
>>743431773Yeah but surely some military strategist at one point thought to strap an explosive to an arrow and send that at his enemies?
>>743431867maybe in china.
>>743416996>slings: bad armor penetration but can daze or stun on a hit>bows: most powerful will btfo mail but struggle against plate, least powerful will struggle against mail. more power = more range>crossbows: lower armor pen than bows but still pretty good considering lower stat requirements>guns: RNG but can get through a breastplate lol lmao>rock: defeated by armor unless it's a fucking big rock
>>743432201>crossbows: lower armor pen than bows
>>743432494he's welsh so he thinks all bows are longbows
>>743432494Only an arbalest would out pen a longbow and only over a shorter distance, a crossbow would only out pen weaker shortbows but they'd still have a range edge over the crossbows, especially if they're recurve.
More games need cute girls struggling to handle handcannons.
>>743429536...And?That's even more reason to include them
If you listen to longbowfags you'll be wondering why we aren't still using longbows today.
